Finding balance and other random thoughts on a Saturday Night

[elegantlion]

This may be one of those threads where there are no real answers, just dialogue. I'd love that, btw.

 

I'm working on our schedule for next year (8th grade) and I'm having a hard time balancing the whole content and skill issue. I'm not sure that's the whole issue though.

 

My son has very high comprehension, he has a mind like a steel trap, and can remember minute details of everything. His reading level lags behind. I have no problem reading to him. I've also picked some sources for next year, for instance history, where I can read one book to him while he reads another book, more on his level and works on skills via that book. His output also lags behind. Some of that is due to be being a delayed reader and writing skills have lagged behind. I asked him if he wanted a harder history spine for next year (Churchill) or if he wanted to do something at his reading level that he might understand better. He chose Churchill.

 

However, he's also like a sponge, absorbing way more. I feel like I have to wring him out to receive the required output. Again, I don't require a lot of traditional output (reports, essay, written tests) yet, but we're using next year a trial run for grading (more pressure).

 

Also this talk about keep working on the basics has my brain spinning. I know it's all good and we're working on it, but then he kind of shuts down. It's boring and repetitive to him. I feel the release to be creative in how we approach these things, but then I feel shaky wondering if we're going to reach those place by rewriting Shakespearean sonnets. We worked on adjectives by doing mad libs with Shakespearean sonnets last week, but that was a whim. *I* feel the need to plan a little more and at least have a framework. Maybe I just need to schedule *do something creative here* and see what happens at the time. In my personal writings I do better that way, but I teach in a more scheduled fashion.

 

Maybe I just need to let go of everything conventional I think is normal and allow the wind to blow the clouds around.

 

What do you do with these kids that really understand most of what you throw at them, but struggle to do more than simply absorb? Do I keep filling the sponge?

 

Wow, this got long, maybe it's just a vent, maybe I need sleep.

[coffeefreak]

I don't know because I'm pondering some of the same things, but I wanted to let you know I read your post.:D

 

Sometimes that's all that matters, right?

 

I'm struggling with what our goals are, what should I be doing with this child, and does it matter if she never understands math? And, she has started rushing through her work so she can do what she really wants to do (art and play) and her work is suffering because of it. So, do I start keeping daily grades as motivation to do her best? How are you going to keep grades besides the obvious math tests, English tests etc?

 

And, as for schedules, I feel the opposite. Due to LIFE happening, we haven't had a schedule for almost 3 years. I feel the need to buckle down and quit letting so much creativity run our homeschool. I feel like the inmates are running the asylum. I think that's why she's rushing through her work and missing 15 out of 30 math problems.:glare:

 

So, how do we achieve balance? What should we do?

 

Maybe someone else will answer and solve everything.

 

Thanks for letting me ramble with you!

Dorinda

[elegantlion]

I don't know because I'm pondering some of the same things, but I wanted to let you know I read your post.:D

 

Sometimes that's all that matters, right?

 

I'm struggling with what our goals are, what should I be doing with this child, and does it matter if she never understands math? And, she has started rushing through her work so she can do what she really wants to do (art and play) and her work is suffering because of it. So, do I start keeping daily grades as motivation to do her best? How are you going to keep grades besides the obvious math tests, English tests etc?

 

And, as for schedules, I feel the opposite. Due to LIFE happening, we haven't had a schedule for almost 3 years. I feel the need to buckle down and quit letting so much creativity run our homeschool. I feel like the inmates are running the asylum. I think that's why she's rushing through her work and missing 15 out of 30 math problems.:glare:

 

So, how do we achieve balance? What should we do?

 

Maybe someone else will answer and solve everything.

 

Thanks for letting me ramble with you!

Dorinda

 

The bolded part would be nice wouldn't it.

 

We've done grades in the past and they were of no motivation to my son. He truly doesn't see the point. We're a pretty non-conformist family, there isn't much we do that is considered normal, so I feel like we're already trying to run uphill. Grades are part of that, *I* don't see the point in some subjects.

 

We've had a chaotic year and made some important changes, including a move. Most of the changes are for the better and more vital to our life than anything academic, yet it has set us behind.

 

UGH, insomnia, middle of the night, so many more thoughts.

 

Dorinda, if you haven't read Andrew Kern's message on the high school board, it's worth a read. It made me feel a better. Maybe that's what has stemmed part of these thoughts. Although we'd had our least consistent year ever, we made some great progress. Maybe ds is growing out of his need for structured schedule and into his more creative side. Maybe this is simply a homeschool growing pain, and I'm not so sure how tall (or small) we'll end up.

 

I tend to be very split in how I deal with life: logical in my work life, need a checklist, get my pat on the back at the end of the day. In my personal life I lack structure, I don't like routine, and I never wear a watch. I don't like being told where to be, when to be there, and what to think. Ds is picking up some of this personality. He also has a distinct portion of dh's personality, and his own proverbial "why?" question of everything. Maybe I'm panicking because I don't have me or dh figured out yet. We're in our 40s! If I don't have us figured out, if I'm not sure how to wrangle my creative side into anything more productive than an occasional flash of inspiration, how I am supposed to teach him properly?

 

Courage is a theme I'm working on this year. :tongue_smilie: Last year I wouldn't have posted this during my nightly wanderings of the internet.

[MilkMaid]

Yes, my thoughts keep my awake at night as well. 'Oh what about a sign language?' or 'Greek & latin root words?' or 'When am I adding too many elective type things to our already crazy schedule?' or 'Should I do the one-room schoolhouse style teaching on some subjects or separate them?'

or 'Am I not educating my youngest enough in history(which she hates no matter what approach I take)?' or 'Should I get a structured curriculum for history or just wing it?'

 

If I don't get some clarity on my thoughts soon these 'shiners' under my eyes are going to take over my whole face. :confused:

So I am no help, just comfort that you're not alone.:grouphug:

Blesings!;)

[Mom0012]

My son sounds similar in some ways. He has a very high comprehension level and he loves history especially, so he remembers everything he learns about it. On the other hand, he has struggled mightily with getting words on paper, and while his reading level is good, it is not as high as his comprehension level either.

 

For us, a literature-based approach to content areas has worked well -- Sonlight, in particular, where the history and other literature is scheduled to be read aloud. He loves that. Then, I use workbooks or a program for skills-based areas like spelling, writing and grammar. That way he gets systematic practice. It is boring and repetitive, but necessary. My ds is in 5th grade this year and I have seen leaps and improvements in his writing and grammar skills that I never imagined would happen. This is stuff we've been working on for years and yes, he has not always been happy about it.

 

It is hard to balance though and sometimes, as a mom, it's hard for me to know when to push in an area and when I need to just back off and wait. I did a lot of pushing with grammar in the early years that was probably totally unnecessary.

 

Now that he is actually able to write a paper, I have just begun having him use whatever history we are currently studying as his writing topic and he's really getting a lot out of that. Up until now, I have kept that separate.

 

I would keep filling the sponge. I think reading aloud to your son is a great idea and if you keep working on those skills, you may be very surprised all of a sudden at his progress.

 

Lisa

Edited March 27, 2011 by LisaTheresa

[hillfarm]

Mt first problem with balance is that I have to fight the urge to teach about 28 hours of material every day.

 

Then I have to war with the draconian urge to develop the most stringent program I can, under the banner of "Rigor!".

 

Then I'm overcome with guilt and once again ponder whether I have the nerves to be able to unschool.

 

About this time, I am so stressed I remember to go back and read my notes from when we began to homeschool, to remind myself of why we are doing it and what I really believe is important. I erase most of the book lists I made during the other 3 phases and try to come up with a plan that challenges dd in her areas of interest and ability and that bolsters her skills in the areas that are lagging.

 

I have also learned that what I might want to dismiss as too easy can actually result in more learning This past year we used the McHenry books for chemistry. Even though it wasn't the most rigorous of programs I considered, dd actually worked through all of both books and learned the material. She calls our attention to examples in the real world and evidence of her learning pops up occasionally in general conversation. That doesn't happen for her with more difficult books. She will plow through them because I require it, but she doesn't learn nearly as much and does not enjoy or apply what she has learned. She actually does absorb and process more material from some of the "easier" books, which we can always supplement with other information as the occasional rabbit trail pops up.

 

Of course I try to keep in mind that she will need certain basic skills for college. But I have learned to keep in mind the old adage about what you call a student from med school who passes with a low C grade (Doctor). My dd is fun, creative, innovative, and insightful. In the lower grades she got perfect scores on everything. Now (rising 8th grader) that the work is getting tougher, her strengths/weaknesses, interests, and natural gifts are becoming more apparent.

 

I am now fighting the battle of learning to accept that the things that will serve her best in life may not be those that will serve her best in college. I am having to subjugate my competitive and perfectionist tendencies to what is best for her happiness and well being. I don't want to force her to focus on maths and science so that she can become an engineer, only to discover that she hates the tasks involved in being an engineer and also hates me for not recognizing who she was as an individual earlier on in our relationship.

 

If I mess up and go the wrong way, I console myself with the fact that online classes abound and are one of the fastest growing areas of post secondary instruction. At only 13, she will not be fully formed in her personality or interests. In 7 or 8 years, she may fall in love with a career that doesn't even exist currently. I can only do the best I know how for now and say lots of prayers.

[freerange]

Mt first problem with balance is that I have to fight the urge to teach about 28 hours of material every day.

 

Then I have to war with the draconian urge to develop the most stringent program I can, under the banner of "Rigor!".

 

Then I'm overcome with guilt and once again ponder whether I have the nerves to be able to unschool.

 

About this time, I am so stressed I remember to go back and read my notes from when we began to homeschool, to remind myself of why we are doing it and what I really believe is important. I erase most of the book lists I made during the other 3 phases and try to come up with a plan that challenges dd in her areas of interest and ability and that bolsters her skills in the areas that are lagging.

 

I have also learned that what I might want to dismiss as too easy can actually result in more learning This past year we used the McHenry books for chemistry. Even though it wasn't the most rigorous of programs I considered, dd actually worked through all of both books and learned the material. She calls our attention to examples in the real world and evidence of her learning pops up occasionally in general conversation. That doesn't happen for her with more difficult books. She will plow through them because I require it, but she doesn't learn nearly as much and does not enjoy or apply what she has learned. She actually does absorb and process more material from some of the "easier" books, which we can always supplement with other information as the occasional rabbit trail pops up.

 

Of course I try to keep in mind that she will need certain basic skills for college. But I have learned to keep in mind the old adage about what you call a student from med school who passes with a low C grade (Doctor). My dd is fun, creative, innovative, and insightful. In the lower grades she got perfect scores on everything. Now (rising 8th grader) that the work is getting tougher, her strengths/weaknesses, interests, and natural gifts are becoming more apparent.

 

I am now fighting the battle of learning to accept that the things that will serve her best in life may not be those that will serve her best in college. I am having to subjugate my competitive and perfectionist tendencies to what is best for her happiness and well being. I don't want to force her to focus on maths and science so that she can become an engineer, only to discover that she hates the tasks involved in being an engineer and also hates me for not recognizing who she was as an individual earlier on in our relationship.

 

If I mess up and go the wrong way, I console myself with the fact that online classes abound and are one of the fastest growing areas of post secondary instruction. At only 13, she will not be fully formed in her personality or interests. In 7 or 8 years, she may fall in love with a career that doesn't even exist currently. I can only do the best I know how for now and say lots of prayers.

 

EXCELLENT post!:iagree:

[Susie in CA]

Yes, I think about this often.

 

I followed the thread "out of the box learning" with great interest because well I'd like learning to be fun, exciting, .... Then I followed Nan's posts about study skills and WTM skills, and, well, I want all those for my dss, too. It is very difficult to balance those needs.

 

I did find that, for us, I need to separate skills from content. We do math, work on spelling and grammar, do rosetta stone German etc. All of these my dss find boring. It doesn't matter what program I find, or how we do them. If I try to combine to many of these skill-oriented things with content subjects they start ruining them. The only overlap we have is writing. The boys don't know that we are working on writing when we are outlining history or writing up a lab report. I just don't tell them. We do a separate writing program.

 

Anyway, I, too, struggle with what's needed for college and what's needed for real life. They are not the same! It really is a shame.

 

Susie

[Nan in Mass]

I started adding in bits that my son was responsible for. I am calling them independent projects. I specify a certain amount of academic work (a book or two read and a paper or two written) but I leave the rest up to him, including the subject. If he has one of these that he is working on during the school day, it lightens the load. I also split the subjects up and tried to get a balance so we had:

 

some sketchy

some time consuming/in depth

some where we spend our time working on output (time consuming and not much fun)

some where the emphasis is high level input and we spend relatively little of our time on the output

some where he aquires the input himself

some where I am willing to help him aquire the input

some where we work on basic skills

some where we don't work on basic skills

 

Then I try to mush the whole thing together into some sort of schedule we can live with. So for instance, last year my son had a period of the day when he worked on piano and a period when he worked on small electronics kits. The electronics kits were hands-on and didn't require any reading or writing. He was entirely responsible for the piano. He found pieces he wanted to learn on youtube and sat down and learned them. Or he messed around finding new ways of playing his old pieces. Or he just played. Both of those subjects gave him a break from the drill. English was a different story. We did great books TWEM way, but reading them aloud together. That was a high input - low written output subject. Meanwhile, we worked on writing. That was a barely-any-input, high output subject.

 

I found that it didn't take that much creativity to lighten our day. A bit of autonomy, something we are aiming for anyway, and a subject or two that I sort of played by ear, adjusting as we went along, not planning ahead (great books), and my son was willing to do the hard work of the rest of the day.

 

HTH

-Nan

[Capt_Uhura]

t so sure how tall (or small) we'll end up.

 

I tend to be very split in how I deal with life: logical in my work life, need a checklist, get my pat on the back at the end of the day. In my personal life I lack structure, I don't like routine, and I never wear a watch. I don't like being told where to be, when to be there, and what to think. Ds is picking up some of this personality. He also has a distinct portion of dh's personality, and his own proverbial "why?" question of everything. Maybe I'm panicking because I don't have me or dh figured out yet. We're in our 40s! If I don't have us figured out, if I'm not sure how to wrangle my creative side into anything more productive than an occasional flash of inspiration, how I am supposed to teach him properly?

 

 

We're twins! I hated having a job where I had to punch a clock. AARRGHHHH. Too much pressure! One thing I loved about being a scientist was that I made my own hours. It didn't matter if I came in at 6am, 6:30am, 7am, 8am, 10am as long as the work got done and I didn't miss any meetings. I loved having the flexibility of coming in 2hrs ahead of everyone else and having the lab and all equipment to myself. And I loved having the flexibility of taking off an 1.5hr in the middle of the day to go for a run and back to work for a shower. I often worked late and weekends.

 

You know, now that you bring this up, I can see how this plays into our homeschooling. As much as I've tried to have a schedule....I just never follow it. I spend hours writing it and pondering it but never follow it. So we are often working at 8pm at night to finish up. I will often grab a kid on the weekend and say, "Let's take an hour to do X,Y,Z" b/c that's the way I work. Up until now (5th and 2nd grades) it has worked ok but now I feel we need more structure. Or perhaps they need more structure.

 

I needed checklists at work b/c I had an overwhelming amount of work, several different projects going simultaneously.

 

The one thing that keeps coming back to me is a post by 8FilltheHeart. She commented that by 5th-6th grade, I believe, she found that she really needed a schedule to get it all done. Up until this point, I could hold everything in my head. With HSing 2, and weaving in my 4yr old who insists on HSing rather than just playing... my brain is on overload. I realized yesterday that we didn't pick up MCT CE1 all week. AARGH. I did I forget that?

 

And I know what's missing.....up until 3-4weeks ago, I used to spend a few hours on Sunday doing my planning for the week. I haven't done that. That's the problem. BINGO. The weekends have all been packed w/ things to do.

 

Must. make. planning. a priority.

[elegantlion]

You all are wonderful. I've read, now I'm going to get some coffee, read again, and absorb.

[Capt_Uhura]

Yes, I think about this often.

 

I followed the thread "out of the box learning" with great interest because well I'd like learning to be fun, exciting, .... Then I followed Nan's posts about study skills and WTM skills, and, well, I want all those for my dss, too. It is very difficult to balance those needs.

 

Susie

 

ah yes, I feel like a juggler with the "out of the box learning" in my left hand, the "skills" in my right hand.....and perhaps the ball that is in the air is "time."

[peacefully]

.

[Nan in Mass]

I think working on those foundational skills IS out-of-the-box. It certainly doesn't fit in terribly well with finishing a history textbook by reading it and answering the questions. The whole using-a-text-only-as-a-spine system is rather out-of-the-box. Once you get the basic skills down, you can do high school in a really out-of-the-box way. The two of them aren't either-or. The basic skills lead to being able to unschool/educate-oneself. It is more as if they are at one end of the spectrum together and textbook/classroom learning are at the other end. At least, that is the way I look at it. I don't give grades. I don't give tests. We use textbooks, when we use them, rather loosely (except math). I let mine do a drawing project or a model for our great books half the time, instead of a paper. Drawing and music are part of our day. We do a lot of non-academic learning. Taking months of the school year and walking from Mass to DC is highly educational but also highly non-academic. I wouldn't change any of that if I could go back. I just would add in being more consistent about working on TWTM foundational skills, especially the ones my children were particularly bad or slow at.

-Nan

[coffeefreak]

The bolded part would be nice wouldn't it.

 

We've done grades in the past and they were of no motivation to my son. He truly doesn't see the point. We're a pretty non-conformist family, there isn't much we do that is considered normal, so I feel like we're already trying to run uphill. Grades are part of that, *I* don't see the point in some subjects.

 

We've had a chaotic year and made some important changes, including a move. Most of the changes are for the better and more vital to our life than anything academic, yet it has set us behind.

 

UGH, insomnia, middle of the night, so many more thoughts.

 

Dorinda, if you haven't read Andrew Kern's message on the high school board, it's worth a read. It made me feel a better. Maybe that's what has stemmed part of these thoughts. Although we'd had our least consistent year ever, we made some great progress. Maybe ds is growing out of his need for structured schedule and into his more creative side. Maybe this is simply a homeschool growing pain, and I'm not so sure how tall (or small) we'll end up.

 

I tend to be very split in how I deal with life: logical in my work life, need a checklist, get my pat on the back at the end of the day. In my personal life I lack structure, I don't like routine, and I never wear a watch. I don't like being told where to be, when to be there, and what to think. Ds is picking up some of this personality. He also has a distinct portion of dh's personality, and his own proverbial "why?" question of everything. Maybe I'm panicking because I don't have me or dh figured out yet. We're in our 40s! If I don't have us figured out, if I'm not sure how to wrangle my creative side into anything more productive than an occasional flash of inspiration, how I am supposed to teach him properly?

 

Courage is a theme I'm working on this year. :tongue_smilie: Last year I wouldn't have posted this during my nightly wanderings of the internet.

 

Paula,

You and I are living parallel lives!:lol:

 

All I can say about Andrew Kern's post is WOW!:thumbup1:What a breath of fresh air. And he's so right! I had that vision when we started. I have always tailored school to "work" for my oldest instead of making my oldest work to fit in the guidelines of school (OK, in the beginning I didn't but I learned quickly that wasn't going to work). Now, we're so focused on what will get her into college, we're struggling with finding that balance. Quite frankly, I don't know if she even wants to go to a 4 year academic college, because she's not that person. She wants to draw, create and make art all day. I doubt she'd eat if I didn't tell her to come to the table. :lol:

 

It's that time of year, isn't it? We all feel like we're failing at something, we all wonder what we could/should have done better, we are all looking at the newest curriculum going :willy_nilly:. I think I'll take a deep breath, order my curriculum, and move on to summer. Who's with me?

 

:auto:

Dorinda

[Corraleno]

Maybe I just need to let go of everything conventional I think is normal and allow the wind to blow the clouds around.

What do you do with these kids that really understand most of what you throw at them, but struggle to do more than simply absorb? Do I keep filling the sponge?

I debated whether I should even post this (I'm done with the debates about whether interest-led learning is “coddling†or only suited for LD kids, blah blah blah), but I think your DS and mine have a lot of similarlities, so I will at least tell you what my experience has been, FWIW.

 

Everyone talks about trying to balance “skills†and “content,†but I think there’s a third category that is just as important (moreso, IMHO) and that’s: interest, motivation, curiosity, passion, whatever you want to call it. You can pound all the skills and content you want into a child, but if in the process of doing that you put the fire out, then what’s the point?

 

When I look back at DS’s life, I can see that whenever that third category drifted to the bottom of the priority list, things fell apart. As a homechooled preK-Ker, he was an insatiable little sponge. He learned to read and do addition and subtraction by playing games for a few minutes a day. He watched every documentary he could find, carried a hardcover book on tropical fish around as his “comfort object,†and regaled anyone who would listen with monologues about the moons of all the planets and assorted mesozoic marine reptiles. Then he started school.

 

Three years ago, DS had fallen so far “behind†that he was going through 3rd grade for the second time — and not only was he still not learning or retaining anything, he absolutely hated school, thought he was stupid, and had gone from a reluctant reader to a nonreader. It took an hour of arguing and crying every. stinkin. night. to get him to read a few pages in an assigned book and do the narration. In his spare time, he just wanted to veg out and watch TV, or he would wander around claiming he was bored and there was nothing to do.

 

Year 1 of homeschooling was very relaxed and interest-led, and DS began to recover his love of learning. Then, in year 2, I discovered the WTM. I bought a bunch of formal grammar and vocabulary programs, I handed him logic and critical thinking workbooks, I assigned lots of reading, I bought textbooks for science and history, and I scheduled the heck out of everything. The result? The light went out. He dreaded school, it took him forever to read a chapter on Mesopotamia or a few pages in a biology text, and he wasn’t retaining anything.

 

This year, I’ve finally let go and decided to just tune into my kid and follow my gut, and not worry about what other kids were doing or what other parents thought was "necessary." We are not unschooling; the work he’s doing is actually pretty rigorous and advanced, but he’s studying things he’s interested in and has chosen to do. He’s motivated, he’s engaged, and he’s blowing me away with the stuff he’s doing.

 

Those history chapters he hated last year? After learning about the social and political structure of Greek city states, he decided, on his own, to go back and learn more about Mesopotamian city states. The kid whose eyes glazed over at the sight of a bio textbook now has a science notebook filled with detailed anatomical drawings of planarians; he can tell you more than you ever wanted to know about the digestive and nervous systems of flatworms. He can discuss various genera of freshwater algae & diatoms, and he can describe in detail the life cycle of damselflies. Why? Because for 2 months our schoolroom table was covered with dozens of jar of strange critters, plus identification guides, 2 microscopes and a pile of slides. He can also explain how engines work, discuss the physics of sunspots and the search for exoplanets, and tell you in great detail why the discovery of Dromomeron romerii made the front cover of Science.

 

The kid who, three years ago, used to sob about having to read a few pages of a 3rd grade chapter book is now a voracious reader. He reads, on average, a 300-400 page novel per week and last week (when he was sick) he blew through 500+ pages in a few days. He’s currently halfway through a 600-page book, which he takes everywhere with him. And this is just fiction — he also reads lots of nonfiction, both for school and for pleasure.

 

I'll list what his current, self-chosen schedule looks like, lest anyone think it's all "fluff," with nothing out of his comfort zone. This is getting long already, though, so I'll put it in a separate post.

 

Jackie

[Poke Salad Annie]

Jackie, your posts always speak to me. I am one who is requiring skill work at the moment. There is no other way around it, so we are applying ourselves to the task, so to say.

 

For the summer, I'm adding in a reading of Robin Graham's Golden Press Edition of The Boy Who Sailed Around the World Alone. I'm taking that step out with my pinky toe, testing the waters to see how it feels. If that's successful, we'll add in more of this kind of thing for next year. In the meantime, I'm printing off your post to think over it for this week. I treasure your words and thoughts.

[Corraleno]

PART II. This is DS's current schedule, chosen by him. Not only is it fluff-free, he has chosen to push himself farther out of his comfort zone than I'd have dared to (see Foreign Language).

 

History. He’s watched so many Teaching Company courses on Greece I’ve lost count. He recently finished the Greek & Persian Wars, which resulted in a two-week researching binge on the Persian empire. He’s currently watching The Age of Pericles, although he’s also on a bit of a Trojan War kick and is doing a lot of reading about that on his own. I don’t ask for any written work (because that nearly ruined everything last year), but we discuss, discuss, discuss.

 

Literature. As a result of his current interest in the Trojan War, he decided to really read the Iliad. We’ve “covered” the Iliad before, but now he’s really interested in it and he’s really reading it, on his own, unabridged. No formal “literary analysis” assignments, but we’ve had some terrific discussions, such as comparing/contrasting Achilles and Odysseus and discussing how their character traits represent Greek ideals. We've talked about the task of memorizing these huge works before the invention of writing, and about how the repetitive epithets and the fact that they were sung helped with memorization. We listened to online audio samples of a classicist reading the Odyssey in Greek, and talked about what a difference a tonal language makes.

 

Science. Science right now is entirely hands-on, interest-led, and research-based. In fact, today DS said he wants to learn how photovoltaic panels work, so DH is pulling together some resources for him and is going to take him to a friend’s house to look at their solar system. I’m thinking of having DS research and design a solar system for our Airstream, which he and DH could install. See the previous post for lots of other things he’s researched in the past few months.

 

Foreign Language. DS decided that he wants to learn Classical Greek, so that he can read Homer and the Greek historians in the original language. I explained that this would be extremely difficult for a dyslexic and that he would need to commit to working his butt off, probably at least 2 hrs/day, in order to keep up with a Greek class. He said he really wanted to do it and was willing to work as hard as necessary. (Yeah, this is the school-hating kid with all the learning disabilities who was flunking 3rd grade three years ago.) He said that he figured he could either spend 4 years learning Spanish, which he might occasionally use on vacation, or he could spend the same amount of time learning Greek, and be able to read Greek literature for the rest of his life. He’s currently working on Galore Park’s Classical Greek for Beginners, and he’ll start Athenaze with Lukeion in August.

 

Grammar. I told DS that he would need a crash course in formal grammar if he really wanted to learn Greek, so he is now going through JAG at double-speed and is signed up for an intensive summer grammar course with Luekeion. Now that he actually has a reason to study formal grammar, he’s doing it quickly, with no complaints, and he’s getting it. Once he starts Athenaze, he can drop grammar.

 

Math. We are continuing with prealgebra (a mix of resources), with detours and side-trips into fun things like fractals (a big current interest) and Zome geometry.

 

Art (and other awesome stuff). DS spends a lot of time drawing, and he is currently illustrating an entire “civilization” that he invented. He has drawn maps of their land, their clothing and jewelry, pictures of their gods and shrines, elaborate weaponry, food and utensils, and he’s even developed a unique writing and number system. Not only has he developed, in his head, an entire history and mythology for these people, he is actually “evolving” them over time. He says they were originally hunter-gatherers who lived in the forest, so a lot of their mythology derives from that: sacred trees, sacred animals like boar and deer, and the main god is a hunting/moon god. Now that they’re starting to settle along the riverbank and cultivate simple crops, he says their social structure is changing and the sun god is becoming more important. He says they haven’t developed metal alloys yet, so they use obsidian (there’s apparently a volcano nearby) for their weapon points. I was absolutely blown away when I saw what he'd done — I’ll take this kind of output over a formulaic five-paragraph essay any day.

 

And yes, that’s correct, there’s no writing program. It is my *personal* opinion, that for *me* as a teacher and for *my* particular child, this is unnecessary right now. He’s learning what good writing looks like by reading voraciously, and he’s learning how to organize and articulate his thoughts by watching well-organized and articulate TC professors and by having to present and defend his position in numerous discussions. I’m sure that when he decides he’s ready to write, and he has something worth saying in writing, (and he can type), then he'll learn to write. I can teach him to write an essay in a semester, but I know from experience it takes a lot longer to relight the fire once it's been smothered.

 

Those who choose to interpret the lack of writing output as “coddling” or accommodation for a disability are welcome to their opinion. But I’m really not worried that a kid who is learning Attic Greek, watching college-level history lectures, reading the unabridged Iliad, analyzing the digestive system of flatworms, working on paleo digs with grad students and college professors, and inventing entire cultures in his head, is going to flunk out of college because he didn’t do enough writing in 6th grade.

 

Jackie

Edited March 27, 2011 by Corraleno
typos

[elegantlion]

Thank you all, I've had a busy day and I'm going to pour over all these comments.

 

Jackie, it's nice to see you. I appreciate you chiming in. You are so right about the fire. I killed it in our early days of schooling. My curious adventuresome child had his love of learning killed by boring basal readers. It took me a few years to get back into the "just read good books" phase and even now he says he hates to read. Still we are overcoming. He loves stories and to be read to, he even has found a book series he's really enjoying.

 

I felt content in 6th grade to let him explore the world and schooling at his pace. Now 8th grade is coming, high school is looming, and without voices like Nan I would be trying to shove him back into the box.

 

I had an epiphany with writing today that doesn't involve adding another curriculum to the schedule. I went to Borders and found some wonderful books I've seen recommended here. Both of these things have eased the panic I had overnight.

 

I've also been pondering how individualistic my child is. I think homeschooling affords us the opportunity to let our child find worth in their own passions, not just what is on the public school schedule. I used to think being an individual meant you had to rebel against something. Now I realize you don't have to rebel to be yourself. So part of the struggle is helping my son in the best way I know how.

 

I read Andrew Kern's post just after dealing with ant issue in the house. Nature study, maybe some divine wisdom from Proverbs about those ants. How disciplined, how predictable, how adaptable they are. I'm like that ant in Bug's Life where something falls in the path and they have a conniption fit "I can't move, this isn't supposed to be here, what do I do?!" :svengo:

 

I like the idea of videoing his presentations. He prefers to be behind the camera, but if I promised it was for his own purposes it might help. I want him to be comfortable in his own skin and have some assurance of how he is coming across. I picked up two biographies today, one on Churchill, one on Shakespeare. Both men had their own stage, perhaps that would be a good lead in to the idea of videoing himself.

 

Nan, I wish I trusted myself not to give grades in high school. I think it's a mindset that I need to work through. I knew how to play the grading system in school, all it taught me was how to play the game. It's very likely he will end up at our local state university anyway, at least for the first two years. If that happens the grades are irrelevant. Time will tell what we actually do.

 

*sigh* Fan the flame without killing it, that's what I shall ponder tonight.

[Rosie_0801]

DS spends a lot of time drawing, and he is currently illustrating an entire “civilization†that he invented. He has drawn maps of their land, their clothing and jewelry, pictures of their gods and shrines, elaborate weaponry, food and utensils, and he’s even developed a unique writing and number system. Not only has he developed, in his head, an entire history and mythology for these people, he is actually “evolving†them over time. He says they were originally hunter-gatherers who lived in the forest, so a lot of their mythology derives from that: sacred trees, sacred animals like boar and deer, and the main god is a hunting/moon god. Now that they’re starting to settle along the riverbank and cultivate simple crops, he says their social structure is changing and the sun god is becoming more important. He says they haven’t developed metal alloys yet, so they use obsidian (there’s apparently a volcano nearby) for their weapon points.

 

Does he have any plans to make that into a role playing game?

 

Urgh. I can't believe I just asked that. Dh is rubbing off on me...

 

Rosie

[Nan in Mass]

Corraleno (and Rosie)

 

This weekend I drove several teens to a LARP. I had to wait with them awhile to sign the release form. While I waited, I watched. An assortment of people, from teen to about my age, helped each other buckle on armour, attatch elf ears, pull out handwritten, leatherbound spell books to figure out whether some wooden acorns from a craft shop would help make this spell more powerful (answer - yes but they had to be coloured with sharpie), draw patterns on masks, plan strategy that sounded like a cross between chess and warhammer, and discuss medieval weapons. Definately a creative endeavor. I would venture to guess that every person there, when they were younger, had done what your son is doing. When he gets older, you might consider LARPing. It provides some of the creative balance in our homeschool.

-Nan

[Nan in Mass]

Lion - I am not necessarily recommending not grading. I found that it solved many of our problems. I have serious doubts about how much attention colleges pay to mummy grades. I have managed to get one child into a state college that way, but it is a pretty scary way to go.

 

Have you seen this?

I found that my children went through a planning process for a drawing for something we read in great books very like the planning process they went through for a paper, so we did a number of these. Some of the more creative ways we've worked on writing have been speech classes at the community college, story telling (retelling actually), and Will Eisner's Graphic Story Telling and Visual Narrative. My sons have more trouble with organizing than wording, so we haven't spent much time on grammar or vocabulary. Instead, we have spent tons of time on organization. Organizing something visual is very like organazing something written.

 

Personally, I find it useful to have a schedule of when to do what, but I leave the details of the what to figure themselves out when the time comes. You are right. It is a balance. I find that ideas like your mad lib one don't come if I have things too planned. This is what I like about TWTM. You read a spine and then do "something" for what you have read. I plan what to do with the spine, but I don't plan the something. That something can be left up to the child or you can specify if you have any particularly good ideas or you can negotiate. We negotiate a lot. It sounds stupid, but I find that if I don't plan the something, very cool somethings arrive when the time comes.

 

(Just in case this gives you any ideas...)

 

-Nan

Edited March 28, 2011 by Nan in Mass

[PenKase]

You ladies are AWESOME!!!!! I've been reading my way through these recent thought provoking threads with excitement and trepidation at the same time. As a newbie, with wild thoughts running though my mind almost at the speed of light, the idea that I could allow myself to depart from traditional schooling (because admittedly, the reason why I've landed on homeschooling TWTM way is becasue it fits my comfort level of how far I can veer of the education path) is FRIGHTENING!!!

 

I've read the "Out of the box" thread over and over again. The first time I read it, I "broke" night because I couldn't pull myself away until I read the whole thing!!! Jackie, your posts really stood out for me (as they all do.....I was about to put out an APB on you cause I hadn't seen you post here since that thread......FWIW, I'm listening) because you seem to have landed in a place of sheer "out of the box educational joy" with your son. This is exactly the kind of education I want for my girls. I find myself running scared in the other direction because of just that, fear. I fear I will ruin my children if I don't teach as I'd been taught. I fear that they'll not be able to compete in this all too turbulent world of expectations.

 

I want thank all of you for exercising the bravery it takes to post messages on these boards. I have gained soooo much insight from BTDT moms like you.

 

-Cassie

[angela in ohio]

Maybe I'm panicking because I don't have me or dh figured out yet. We're in our 40s! If I don't have us figured out, if I'm not sure how to wrangle my creative side into anything more productive than an occasional flash of inspiration, how I am supposed to teach him properly?

 

Last night, I was surfing College Confidential, and I told dh that by this time in three years, we will be about done with college decisions wtih dd. He commented that that seemed so soon, considering *we* haven't grown up yet. :D

 

I was also going to suggest more projects instead of just the traditional papers, papers, papers. Also, I would buy many, many Teaching Company sets and let him absorb those. That will supplement what he gets by reading.

 

The book College-Prep Homeschooling has a great list of project ideas and ways to plan and document "outside the box" courses for high school.

[elegantlion]

Lion - I am not necessarily recommending not grading. I found that it solved many of our problems. I have serious doubts about how much attention colleges pay to mummy grades. I have managed to get one child into a state college that way, but it is a pretty scary way to go.

 

Have you seen this?

 

Personally, I find it useful to have a schedule of when to do what, but I leave the details of the what to figure themselves out when the time comes.

 

(Just in case this gives you any ideas...)

 

-Nan

 

As always, thank you. That video was awesome, now I want that book. It's also given me some ideas. My ds likes to draw, but he gets frustrated with his inability. We're using Draw Squad next year to help. But anyway, I thought we might use some of our art prints we study and build a story from that. Kind of reverse the process.

 

I think I need to find a grading system I'm comfortable with. I dislike playing games and that is what grades feel like to me. His ACT score will be the determining factor if he decided to go local. I can get over involved in details and the last time we kept grades I found myself spending more time than necessary grading things. I'd rather spend my time teaching, planning, or on my self-education.

 

I want thank all of you for exercising the bravery it takes to post messages on these boards. I have gained soooo much insight from BTDT moms like you.

 

-Cassie

 

I almost deleted my first message. It read a bit like madness in the middle of the night. It's cheaper than therapy though. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

The book College-Prep Homeschooling has a great list of project ideas and ways to plan and document "outside the box" courses for high school.

 

Thank you, I need to check into that.

Edited March 28, 2011 by elegantlion

[Capt_Uhura]

Jackie - It certainly seems like your son has reached learning nirvana! I can imagine how scary it was to take that path! How wonderful for your DS to be able to explore his passions. Thank you so much for sharing your story. Isn't he only 11yrs old? He has plenty of time for writing since you obviously have the discussion end covered well. I've been struggling with finding the right balance for us, considering that they may be going back to school in a year or two.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Capt_Uhura

[Corraleno]

I want to add something to what I said earlier about the “third category†— interest/passion/motivation, etc. This paragraph is from visualspatial.org:

 

Sometimes seen as having poor organization skills, picture thinkers have their order. It centers around significance, an emotional response. Rather than outline as step-by-step learners do, where main ideas stand out like trees on the plain, spatials respond to feelings about importance. If something strikes them as worthwhile, it becomes part of their web of essentials, a mental map of things worth paying attention to. Instead of outlines—so comfortable to the stepwise —a picture thinker’s scheme of reality is more like a 3D star map. The various stars and constellations stand out in different degrees of brightness, all shining against the dark space surrounding them and all interconnected in some way. Those connections are based on feelings and sensed importance.

 

For visual/spatial kids in particular, the interest/passion/motivation isn’t just a nice luxury if you have time for it — it’s a prerequisite for learning the skills and content. Trying to force them to learn things they have no interest in, presented in ways that are totally counter-intuitive to them, is setting them up for failure from the word go.

 

Nan mentioned that you can teach organization skills with visual information as well as writing, and I think this is especially important for VSLs. Something like outlining, which seems like the obvious, perhaps even "correct," way to organize information to verbal/sequential learners, can be incredibly difficult for VSLs. For example, here are the steps I would go through to outline a page in a history text:

 

(1) Read and process information

(2) Easily pick out the key points

(3) Write them in outline form

 

Here’s what the process might look like for a VSL:

 

(1) Decode abstract symbols on the page and convert them to words

(2) Translate the words into images

(3) Sort through the images and look for the ones that seem most important.

(4) Since the information that gets processed and converted to images are things that were either described very visually, making them easy to picture, or things that created an emotional response, what’s retained may be the main point of the passage — or completely trivial details.

(5) Choose however many images/concepts the assigment said to include

(6) Try to translate the images back into words

(7) Try to remember which abstract symbols, in which order, spell the words you’re fumbling for, and try to get them down on the page, while simultaneously keeping the sound of the words, the spelling of the words, and all of the images you formed from the entire passage in your head.

(8) Turn in the assignment and listen to the exasperated teacher tell you that you’ve totally missed the point of the entire article.

(9) Decide that you’re hopelessly stupid and you hate school.

 

And after all that stress and struggle, the child still hasn’t learned either the skill or the content.

 

Many VSL, whole-to-part kids simply do not do well with the drip, drip, drip, parts-to-whole approach. I’m sure for some kids, the fact that they struggle with narration, dictation, and outlining means they need more of it, but for other kids it simply will not work and will just make things worse.

 

This is one reason why I think Teaching Company videos have worked so brilliantly for DS. Not only is he inherently interested in the subject, and therefore primed to find the information meaningful and memorable, but the visual/auditory presentation eliminates the step of decoding words on a page and it adds all kinds of extra cues as to what the key points are, like the professor’s tone and body language, and graphics that illustrate important points.

 

Often, when I watch a lecture with DS, I’ll pause the video and point out that the professor just made a really important point, or I might say “Did you notice that in the beginning of the lecture he mentioned several reasons for the downfall of [whatever], and then he covered them one by one, and then he summarized them at the end? Can you list what the key points were? How did he tie them all together in his summary?†If I don’t watch the lecture myself, I might ask him to summarize it for me afterward, or to tell me the three most important points. So he is really learning the same skill as outlining, but it’s in the context of meaningful content, it’s in a format that provides extra visual cues, and it eliminates some of the steps (reading, spelling) that get in the way of learning both the skill and the content.

 

I’ve even used TC lectures to teach the concept of developing and supporting a thesis. Garrett Fagan’s Great Battles of the Ancient World course was brilliant for that, because he would often present several competing theories on a given topic, provide the evidence for and against each theory, and then explain his own position and the evidence for it. We watched the lectures together, and then I’d review the theories with DS afterwards, having him tell me the evidence for and against each one and then explain what he believed and why.

 

So, although DS isn’t doing any formal writing (other than what he chooses to write in his “civilization†book), he’s actually learning all the requisite skills: how to organize, analyze, and process information, how to develop and support a thesis, how to use interesting and varied sentence structure and vocabulary (from all of his reading). When I feel like he’s ready to start writing, I can teach him the 5-paragraph essay format in a day. And I’d actually prefer to wait until all those other skills are in place and he can produce something worth writing, before I teach him a “formula.â€

 

Jackie

 

ETA: Capt., he's actually a year older than most 6th graders (12), because he repeated 3rd grade.

[Nan in Mass]

Corraleno,

Just in case this helps...

Before they were 16 (or almost 16), my sons had trouble writing a nonfiction paper longer than a paragraph that wasn't a disorganized mess. At 16, suddenly they were able to produce 5 paragraph papers about straightforward things (think reports) that were ok. My husband, who writes using that format for work, sat down with them and taught them in two evenings. He made it look very simple GROAN but I think what happened is that the time was finally right. I had tried many times earlier to teach them this and their papers still were ... odd. It was hard for me to tell what was wrong with them. They just didn't work. (That is what you were talking about earlier.) Now this is the bit that I thought might be helpful - Even though they could now write a report, they still weren't able to write a literary analysis paper or a personal paper or a persuasive paper. They somehow couldn't fill them in properly. The things I suggested they add they declared as too obvious to be worth including. The older one went off to college, but I found something that "fixed" the younger one - the Schaffer format. This is very like the 5 paragraph format except that it has specific information on how to do the filler part, the commentary. I'm not good at that part either, so it was very difficult for me to teach it. I kept agreeing with my children.

 

Here is what wikipaedia says:

 

-------------------

 

A quick overview of the default Schaffer paragraph[1]:

• Topic sentence (TS)
  
• Concrete Detail (CD)
  
• Commentary (CM)
  
• Commentary (CM)
  
• Closing/Concluding sentence (CS)
  

Note: Some Schaffer paragraphs may have additional CD's and CM's before the CS while following the 1:2 ratio as follows:

• Topic sentence (TS)
  
• Concrete Detail (CD)
  
• Commentary (CM)
  
• Commentary (CM)
  
• Concrete Detail (CD)
  
• Commentary (CM)
  
• Commentary (CM)
  
• Closing/Concluding sentence (CS)
  

[edit] Topic sentence or statement (TS)

 

This sentence should state the main point of the paragraph and be straight to the point.

Examples: Cinderella leads a miserable life. [edit] Concrete detail (CD)

 

This sentence is the "what" sentence and is a fact that shows "what" is happening. It should be either facts, examples, illustrations, evidence, support, plot references, paraphrases, citations, quotations, plot summary, etc. It should be a concrete detail and should start with 'for example' or a different transition.

Examples: For example, she does all the cooking, cleaning, and sewing.

 

[edit] Commentary (CM)

 

There are two or three commentary sentences in each chunk. They contain no facts, rather, comments from the paragraph writer about the fact presented in the CD. This sentence contains analysis, interpretation, character feelings, opinions, inference, insight, reasons, or color commentator. It is important that the commentary explain how the concrete detail helps prove the writer's point (the TS).

Examples: CM1: This shows that she feels taken advantage of by her selfish stepmother and stepsisters. CM2: This is important because her horrible life gives her a present, her fairy godmother. [edit] Concluding or closing sentence (CS)

 

The Concluding Sentence (CS) is the closing sentence that wraps up the TS and sums up the paragraph. It closes up the thoughts and gives insight to the next paragraph. Again, it is a good idea to use as many (at least two) feeling, emotional, or connotative words as possible. It usually begins with "As a result" or another concluding sentence.

Examples: As a result, she becomes a princess. [edit] Requirements

 

• It must not be written in first person
  
• Every paragraph must be five sentences long, however there can be more as long as the same ratio of two CM's to every CD is kept [4]
  
• Each section (TS, CD, CM, CS) is only one sentence in length
  
• Each section should also avoid past tense and only be written in present tense
  

-------------

 

You can force the whole process by making the various types of sentences start with things like "For example" and "That means" and "That also means". The essay produced is stilted but organized. It took my son one week to figure it out and then he was able to vary the format and produce papers with a thesis. This was after years of me trying to explain how to elaborate on a statement. Was it just the right time? Or did I finally hit on a way to explain it that my son understood? I don't know. I just was grateful it worked.

 

Anyway, when the time comes to teach the 5 paragraph format, you might want to consider also teaching this format for a paper with a thesis statement. If you combine that with the classical format, you come out with something that has an appropriate slot for each thing you might want to say, and a way of filling out the information into a paper, a way of inserting the fluff.

 

-Nan

[elegantlion]

Jackie and Nan, thank you for sharing. All of these posts have been helpful in developing a game plan. I'm feeling like the money I would spend on more writing programs (:tongue_smilie:) would be better served by buying teaching company dvds.

[Tammyla]

:bigear::lurk5::bigear:

 

I'm all ears this morning.

 

Great thread.:thumbup1:

[JennW in SoCal]

Here I'm all done with homeschooling but I love popping in on this board in particular to see what y'all are up to. Over my 11 years of homeschooling I spent many hours fretting over the balance between skills and interest, so I can empathize. I thought I'd chime in with some tales of what happens with the outside-the-box kids when they hit a more structured class.

 

My youngest just turned 16. He's been taking community college classes for two semesters now, and has been totally responsible for those classes. It's been hard for ME, biting my tongue over his early study habits, hard not to berate myself for some lack of preparation or another. But I also knew that we had reached a stage where he didn't want to learn anything from mom anymore -- he wanted to figure things out for himself. He was the one who wanted to be in those CC classes, so he had the motivation to make it work, to figure out how to best study. And it is working out -- he and another former homeschooler had the top 2 scores on the first chemistry midterm. All the older students come to him with their questions!

 

The most important thing that he gained from his out-of-the box education is that he can think for himself and doesn't hesitate to ask questions. The standard school model (which many pre-packaged curricula follow) is to read and memorize the texts then regurgitate the facts back. Thinking and questioning are not encouraged, and judging by several of my son's experiences, most kids don't know how. He will stay and talk with the professor after class, he will google things that haven't been explained well in class or in the text. All the other students are passive participants, clueless as to why they aren't getting better grades.

 

A professor friend of mine who teaches at a selective liberal arts university has said it takes about 4-6 weeks to get her students to learn how to think -- how to ask questions and apply their knowledge in unique situations. These students know how to do AP classes, but they can't think past the regurgitation of the text book.

 

Oh -- the one skill that I do think I should have worked on more over the years??!! Penmanship!! His chemistry professor grades their handwriting in their lab reports!

[Nan in Mass]

Which chemistry is he taking? Intro or general? Had he done any chemistry previously? Could you please pretty please pop over to the high school board and the post where I am trying to decide which classes to sign my youngest up for next fall?

-Nan

[Capt_Uhura]

[quote name=Corraleno;2567356

 

This is one reason why I think Teaching Company videos have worked so brilliantly for DS. Not only is he inherently interested in the subject' date=' and therefore primed to find the information meaningful and memorable, but the visual/auditory presentation eliminates the step of decoding words on a page and it adds all kinds of extra cues as to what the key points are, like the professor’s tone and body language, and graphics that illustrate important points.

 

Often, when I watch a lecture with DS, I’ll pause the video and point out that the professor just made a really important point, or I might say “Did you notice that in the beginning of the lecture he mentioned several reasons for the downfall of [whatever], and then he covered them one by one, and then he summarized them at the end? Can you list what the key points were? How did he tie them all together in his summary?†If I don’t watch the lecture myself, I might ask him to summarize it for me afterward, or to tell me the three most important points. So he is really learning the same skill as outlining, but it’s in the context of meaningful content, it’s in a format that provides extra visual cues, and it eliminates some of the steps (reading, spelling) that get in the way of learning both the skill and the content.

 

I’ve even used TC lectures to teach the concept of developing and supporting a thesis. Garrett Fagan’s Great Battles of the Ancient World course was brilliant for that, because he would often present several competing theories on a given topic, provide the evidence for and against each theory, and then explain his own position and the evidence for it. We watched the lectures together, and then I’d review the theories with DS afterwards, having him tell me the evidence for and against each one and then explain what he believed and why.

 

So, although DS isn’t doing any formal writing (other than what he chooses to write in his “civilization†book), he’s actually learning all the requisite skills: how to organize, analyze, and process information, how to develop and support a thesis, how to use interesting and varied sentence structure and vocabulary (from all of his reading). When I feel like he’s ready to start writing, I can teach him the 5-paragraph essay format in a day. And I’d actually prefer to wait until all those other skills are in place and he can produce something worth writing, before I teach him a “formula.â€

 

 

 

Ah, this is just what we do!!! While I taught outlining etc w/ a workbook, we have continual reinforcement by analyzing lectures. We went to a college lecture on the sun last week. Ds noted that the professor using an outline through his talk - highlighting which portion of his outline he was going to address next. When he would give a summary before moving on, DS would look at me and smile. It was great seeing him apply what we're learning to this situation and making note of how the talk was organized. Some of the science was over our heads but it was a fantastic learning experience to see the application of what he's learning.

 

I also outline documentaries we watch on TV and then we orally construct a paragraph from the outline or discuss how the show was organized.

 

Thank you for writing up how a VSL person views the world. That was eye-opening.

[Ester Maria]

His reading level lags behind. I have no problem reading to him.

Unless it is a LD issue rather than just a late reader, I would probably not do that. The way to increase his reading level might actually be in forcing him out of his comfort zone when it comes to reading - not the kind of reading where he is being read to, but the kind of reading where he actively reads on his own.

What do you do with these kids that really understand most of what you throw at them, but struggle to do more than simply absorb? Do I keep filling the sponge?

Require the minimum of the traditional output that's grade-appropriate per subject (say, a lit review every month or two, two History papers per year, etc.), let him know in advance what the standads fr the minimum output are and no discussion about that, but let everything also (all the craftsy "extras" you feel like you "should" be doing, etc.) - the bare bones of output so that you have a concrete material you can grade, but not more than that.

[elegantlion]

Here I'm all done with homeschooling but I love popping in on this board in particular to see what y'all are up to. Over my 11 years of homeschooling I spent many hours fretting over the balance between skills and interest, so I can empathize. I thought I'd chime in with some tales of what happens with the outside-the-box kids when they hit a more structured class.

 

Oh -- the one skill that I do think I should have worked on more over the years??!! Penmanship!! His chemistry professor grades their handwriting in their lab reports!

 

And we all appreciate that you do stop by. Thank you for sharing, making note on the penmanship.

 

Unless it is a LD issue rather than just a late reader, I would probably not do that. The way to increase his reading level might actually be in forcing him out of his comfort zone when it comes to reading - not the kind of reading where he is being read to, but the kind of reading where he actively reads on his own.

 

Require the minimum of the traditional output that's grade-appropriate per subject (say, a lit review every month or two, two History papers per year, etc.), let him know in advance what the standads fr the minimum output are and no discussion about that, but let everything also (all the craftsy "extras" you feel like you "should" be doing, etc.) - the bare bones of output so that you have a concrete material you can grade, but not more than that.

 

Thank you, Ester Maria. This is the first year he's been able to read with understanding from his history and science texts. You're right, we are in a comfort zone.

 

You have made is sound so simple. :svengo:Yes, minimum standards on output, he will understand that. It will appeal to his literal side and my need to grade.

[5LittleMonkeys]

As usual you've all given me so much to think about.

 

Jackie, thank you so much for chiming in here. You and your ds are such an inspiration to dd12 and me while we try to find our way through her education.

[Create Your Ritual]

Thanks for the wonderful ideas. I had never thought of using the TC lectures that way. ;-)

[swimmermom3]

Paula, thank you for starting such an enjoyable and mind-stretching thread. Finding balance has never been one of my more finely-honed skills. I am a woman of extremes and home schooling seems to push those extremes out even further than I thought possible some times.:tongue_smilie:

[birchbark]

 

All I can say about Andrew Kern's post is WOW!:thumbup1:What a breath of fresh air.

 

Does anyone know which post is being referenced in this thread?

[obsidian]

Does anyone know which post is being referenced in this thread?

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2553579&postcount=4

This is the post, I think.