Secular homeschoolers

[Mommy22alyns]

The Pagan thread went over so well, I'm encouraged to ask this question. :001_smile: I'd like to hear from the homeschoolers here who are using a completely secular approach.

 

How are you addressing the beginnings of civilization with your kids? Are you teaching different beliefs right away or waiting for your child(ren) to ask questions first?

 

Rebecca has been to a Christian preschool, but there has been minimal "religious" education there. We're using a Christian umbrella school this year - I'm assuming a Bible curriculum will be required (haven't had a chance to ask questions yet) so I'm choosing something more historical in perspective than religious.

 

With ancient studies beginning this year, and with Becca being the bright and inquisitive little girl she is... I'd better be prepared for the big questions!

 

What I want is to encourage her to think critically and make her own decisions about what beliefs to embrace. I want to give her information with as little bias as possible. To be completely honest, I'm still a seeker myself.

 

Has anyone else schooled using this approach? How did you address the big questions like beginnings and endings? Do you have any materials or books to suggest?

 

 

***Please note - it can be hard to make myself clear online, so please don't take any of my words the wrong way if you totally disagree with me! I am in no way trying to intimate anything about how anyone else passes on belief systems to their children! :)

[Jenny in Atl]

I think for the most part I'm using a secular approach. We used mostly secular materials, but some faith based resources are so good, I can't help but use them. We are also a very open family, open to all ideas, faiths, no faiths, etc. So, unless something is really "pushy or offensive" I'm open to exploring its value in our studies.

 

Through my very nature, I have encouraged to the girls to think for themselves, to ask questions, to not always agree with me or their father. I ask that they respect us, but I want them to really learn all sides before coming to a conclusion. Of course, this is done in an age appropriate manner. I'm not talking about whether it's ok to run out into the road, but rather to question ideas like - where all this came from, what is their place in this world, forms of governance, views of history, etc.

 

I have not used any one bk or curriculum, instead I look for multiple views to learn from. Say, read Paul Johnson's History of the American People and Howard Zinn's texts. These are two opposing views, both with interesting points I wish to share with my kids. We watch movies from outside the US to get different views of the world, not just a US perspective. There are so many great Nova and PBS specials on space, the beginnings of life, and the travels of man. All of these can help paint a picture for your daughter to explore her world.

 

I hope I've made some sense too. It can be hard to express all this.

[LanaTron]

I know you asked for completely secular, but I felt my thoughts might be pertinent. We are Christian, but I teach them that big bang theory, evolution, and the like are the truths that scientists currently find to be the most plausable.

 

I quite often explain that "XX" is what the book says, "YY" is what I believe (if it is different), and if they want to know what their dad thinks they need to ask him...and that other people believe "ZZ" or even "XYZ." I usually say that as they grow older they will decide what their own beliefs are. But I didn't do too much of that until they started asking. They seem to be content to take on their parents' beliefs for now, but as we head into the teen years, I know they will have more questions and will probably explore other beliefs, possibly even more conservative Christian beliefs than I hold.

 

And, as I said we are Christian so the basic premises that God loves each of us and that Jesus was crucified, buried, and resurrected to make it possible to have a right relationship with God is not something I offer alternatives to.

 

Writing it out like this, it sounds a little schitzo...how can we be Christian but secular, too? Some would say we can't be...but it is where I am on my journey and I have to be honest with my kids about that.

[Greta]

Hi Amber,

 

I think you were very respectful in the way you asked, so don't worry!

 

I'd like to hear from the homeschoolers here who are using a completely secular approach.

 

We use completely secular materials, but I still teach them, well some of them, from the perspective of our beliefs, if that makes sense. When something comes up, it's a jumping off point for further conversation. I don't edit things out. So I'm not sure how much help I will be, since it sounds like maybe you're wanting not just secular materials, but a secular perspective? I have a completely secular perspective in many areas, (Math and science are just math and science. Period.) but with things like history, I find it hard (and not actually fruitful) to avoid religion. Am I making any sense? I think I'm rambling. So, moving along!

 

How are you addressing the beginnings of civilization with your kids? Are you teaching different beliefs right away or waiting for your child(ren) to ask questions first?

 

We are using SOTW Volume 1 right now. Since SWB starts with nomads about 7000 BCE, we did a short but fun unit on human evolution first. We discuss various religions as they come up, and for an 8 year old, I'm surprised at how well she has understood something not easy to grasp, which her father and I have taught her all along: that religious stories and mythologies don't have to be (literally/objectively) true in order to be (spiritually, meaningfully) true. We even teach her this about the stories of our own religion! The stories are meant to teach us something about who we are as humans and what we can and should do with our lives. It doesn't matter if the story didn't happen exactly the way it is told. What matters is how the story enhances our lives.

 

What I want is to encourage her to think critically and make her own decisions about what beliefs to embrace. I want to give her information with as little bias as possible. To be completely honest, I'm still a seeker myself.

 

I am confident you're going to do a fantastic job! If you are still seeking yourself, that is the best way to show her that she should never stop asking questions.

 

I could ramble on about this all day, but dd is wanting my attention! ;)

[nmoira]

How are you addressing the beginnings of civilization with your kids? Are you teaching different beliefs right away or waiting for your child(ren) to ask questions first?

We are atheists, but love good stories. We dive right into myths and legends, religious or not, but I treat them all the same. We spent the longest time on Greek myths and Hindu mythology because those are the best stories. We have a couple books about religions and read the appropriate sections as we meet new religions in history. Eventually we'll do a religions studies unit, maybe Joseph Campbell inspired, but that can come when the children are much older.

 

We did a pre-history unit consisting of the Walking With... videos (the whole set), a four comic book series Jacqui Bailey and Matthew Lilly called the Cartoon History of the World, and the Usborne Internet Linked Encyclopedia of World History. We also read a book of creation stories from around the world.

[KarenNC]

Some of the books we have used for discussing origin of the universe, evolution of man, etc:

 

Life Story by Virginia Lee Burton

Our Family Tree: An Evolution Story by Lisa Westberg Peters and Lauren Stringer

The DK Eyewitness books on evolution and early humans

 

Stephen and Lucy Hawking have done a great book called "George's Secret Key to the Universe" that addresses the physical beginnings of the universe but that's probably better for older. We did it as a read aloud this year with my 7 year old.

 

There are probably others, but can't think of them right now. I agree with GretaLynne's approach to the sacred stories of all cultures.

[Jenny in Atl]

There is a great bk about creation stories from all over the world. It's called In the Beginning by Virginia Hamilton. The girls and I read this each time we do prehistoric history.

[Mommy22alyns]

I know you asked for completely secular, but I felt my thoughts might be pertinent. We are Christian, but I teach them that big bang theory, evolution, and the like are the truths that scientists currently find to be the most plausable.

 

I quite often explain that "XX" is what the book says, "YY" is what I believe (if it is different), and if they want to know what their dad thinks they need to ask him...and that other people believe "ZZ" or even "XYZ." I usually say that as they grow older they will decide what their own beliefs are. But I didn't do too much of that until they started asking. They seem to be content to take on their parents' beliefs for now, but as we head into the teen years, I know they will have more questions and will probably explore other beliefs, possibly even more conservative Christian beliefs than I hold.

 

And, as I said we are Christian so the basic premises that God loves each of us and that Jesus was crucified, buried, and resurrected to make it possible to have a right relationship with God is not something I offer alternatives to.

 

Writing it out like this, it sounds a little schitzo...how can we be Christian but secular, too? Some would say we can't be...but it is where I am on my journey and I have to be honest with my kids about that.

 

 

Wow, thanks for your input too! I really like your approach as well.

 

We also read a book of creation stories from around the world.

 

 

Which book do you use?

 

Jenny, I'm checking out your recommendation too. :)

[Audrey]

I had no intention of including any pagan studies in our school. That was something ds asked for this year. When we first started history (grade 1) I used SOTW I, but when we began the school year, I first did pre-history. We started out with the Big Bang! Then I used The Book of Life and The Story of Life on Earth. From there we went through the dinosaurs (always great fun!) and early man, up to the Stone Age. After we'd had time to digest that, then we began SOTW I.

 

What was nice about all of our pre-history study was that it combined history with science. Ds still looks at that as his favourite homeschool time.

[Jenny in Florida]

Or, occasionally, if the truly best curriculum is a little bit religious, we might "secularize" it. (The Art of Argument is the one that pops into my head. Oh, and Latin for Children for a couple of years.)

 

How are you addressing the beginnings of civilization with your kids?

 

Hmm. I'm not sure it ever occured to me to do anything other than tell them what I knew from my own reading and study. So, from the time they were verbal and asking questions, I just started answering them to the best of my ability. When I didn't know the answer, I looked it up.

 

In terms of formal study, we've done one round of "the ancients," and we started "from the beginning" by learning about the origins of the universe. We studied astronomy for our science that year, so the two subjects dovetailed nicely. In addition to the coverage in my daughter's textbook, we watched a wonderful PBS series called "Origins" that started, as I recall, with the big bang and took us up through the first life on Earth.

 

Are you teaching different beliefs right away or waiting for your child(ren) to ask questions first?

 

Well, when we're not busy being secular homeschoolers, we're Unitarian Universalists. And I have a long-time interest in comparative religions. So, those topics, too, tend to just come up. Again, from the beginning, I answered questions they asked--and my daughter, in particular, started asking them early. And, when necessary, we'd research things together. We always have plenty of books lying about to dip into for answers.

 

They also attend UU religious education classes, which introduce world faiths starting pretty young. At one point--I think she was 5 or 6--my daughter developed a strong interest in Buddhism, so we spent some time with that.

 

When it comes to more formal studies, my daughter asked for a world religions course one year. Oh, actually, it was the same year we did the ancients/astronomy combo. She used Huston Smith's Illustrated World Religions as a base, and we added readings from various holy books (the Bible, the Dhammapada, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, etc.). My son, who is younger, used a series of books from Milliken called Inside World Religions (or something like that). There were five or six of them. He also watched some videos and DVDs from the library. And all three of us made field trips to various houses of worship around town.

 

But, honestly, I think most of it has happened just through the daily discussions that come up. They ask questions. I tell that what I know, what I believe, what I understand that others believe, what I think, etc. I do have my own quirky but strongly held religous/spiritual beliefs, and I'm not shy about sharing them with my kids. But I am also committed to respect for others, since I believe that is the only way I earn their respect in return. And I'm doing my best to pass all of this on to my kids.

[dorothy]

our approach is to respectfully yet critically teach about world views. (This is what X religion states...what do you think about that? How do you respectfully co-exist if you do not agree).

 

However, I would never leave out teaching about the Bible because it is foundational literature for Western Civilization. I think that choosing to not teach about the Bible (thoroughly) is to limit your dc's education.

 

Also, our end-goal is not to produce secular adults. We have seen numerous families where religious/spiritual matters were completely neutralized to make the dc "nothing" and the end result has been disastrous. It is too many cases to not make me think that secularization as an end in and of itself is not a good goal.

 

I choose secular materials because I want rigorous, critical thought. I went to a Christian private school growing up and everything with "Biblified" to the point that academics were very limited. I vowed to teach my kids about everything, have them reason it out, and discover truth through rigorous study.

 

I do not like the kind of Christian education and churchification that leads to kids thinking that outside of that particular box there is no truth and beauty. It is a sure way of having dc flip out when they go out into the world and see that there are other ways of living/thinking/feeling. I felt jipped in my education and could not question anything the teachers said!

 

In the end though, I do live as a Christian and my dc know it. They also know they can question everything and that I am not looking to church them but rather share with them.

[Greta]

Also, Dawn Publications has a gorgeously illustrated series by Jennier Morgan and Dana Lynne Anderson:

 

Born with a Bang, Book One, The Universe Tells Our Cosmic Story

 

From Lava to Life, Book Two, The Universe Tells Our Earth Story

 

Mammals Who Morph, Book Three, The Universe Tells Our Evolution Story

 

These books are great, really fun.

[pamjk]

DH and I identify as atheist, and I bring the kids to a UU Fellowship for a diverse religious education. DS is learning New Testament history in RE and DD's class is using Hide and Seek with God to explore all the various ways folks around the world use the term "god." I have the book at home too so we can read the stories and discuss them further. I also have What About Gods? and Humanism: What's That?.

 

For prehistory, we've used the Born with a Bang series by Jennfier Morgan, Usborne IL Encyclopedia of World History, Early Humans(Eyewitness) and Usborne's Living in Prehistoric Times. For a wonderful variety of creation stories, I second the recommendation of In the Beginning.

 

For evolution, so far I have Life On Earth and Darwin and Evolution for Kids. For my own education on parenting secularly, I've found Parenting Beyond Belief to be a wonderful resource. I also attended a workshop with the editor of that book and it was excellent!

[Jenny in Atl]

Also, Dawn Publications has a gorgeously illustrated series by Jennier Morgan and Dana Lynne Anderson:

 

Born with a Bang, Book One, The Universe Tells Our Cosmic Story

 

From Lava to Life, Book Two, The Universe Tells Our Earth Story

 

Mammals Who Morph, Book Three, The Universe Tells Our Evolution Story

 

These books are great, really fun.

 

:iagree: My youngest loves these. She has read them over and over!

[runningirl71]

Some of the books we have used for discussing origin of the universe, evolution of man, etc:

 

Life Story by Virginia Lee Burton

Our Family Tree: An Evolution Story by Lisa Westberg Peters and Lauren Stringer

The DK Eyewitness books on evolution and early humans

 

Stephen and Lucy Hawking have done a great book called "George's Secret Key to the Universe" that addresses the physical beginnings of the universe but that's probably better for older.

 

There is a great bk about creation stories from all over the world. It's called In the Beginning by Virginia Hamilton. The girls and I read this each time we do prehistoric history.

 

When we first started history (grade 1) I used SOTW I, but when we began the school year, I first did pre-history. We started out with the Big Bang! Then I used The Book of Life and The Story of Life on Earth.

 

Also, Dawn Publications has a gorgeously illustrated series by Jennier Morgan and Dana Lynne Anderson:

 

Born with a Bang, Book One, The Universe Tells Our Cosmic Story

 

From Lava to Life, Book Two, The Universe Tells Our Earth Story

 

Mammals Who Morph, Book Three, The Universe Tells Our Evolution Story

 

These books are great, really fun.

 

D DS is learning New Testament history in RE and DD's class is using Hide and Seek with God to explore all the various ways folks around the world use the term "god." I have the book at home too so we can read the stories and discuss them further. I also have What About Gods? and Humanism: What's That?.

 

For prehistory, we've used the Born with a Bang series by Jennfier Morgan, Usborne IL Encyclopedia of World History, Early Humans(Eyewitness) and Usborne's Living in Prehistoric Times. For a wonderful variety of creation stories, I second the recommendation of In the Beginning.

 

For evolution, so far I have Life On Earth and Darwin and Evolution for Kids. For my own education on parenting secularly, I've found Parenting Beyond Belief to be a wonderful resource. I also attended a workshop with the editor of that book and it was excellent!

 

Wow! Thanks for sharing all of these! We are Christians with a very broad worldview with theistic evolution leanings. I've always been fascinated with world religions as well (part of my major in college). I teach secularly so my kids can know all views out there. I would have never found these resources on my own! I have already previewed In the Beginning by Hamilton and it looks beautiful. I was thinking in the back of my mind about resources when we start studying ancients again, so I'll definitely be bookmarking some of these selections! (I also signed up for the pagan newsletter since my dh works with this particular student group at his univ. It will give me a better understanding of their beliefs! Thanks again):)

[Laura Corin]

I teach about different beliefs as they come up in our history cycle. We supplement in the early years with One Country, Many Religions, by Mary Pope Osborne. I teach the scientific origins of the universe and leave it up to them to decide if there is a god directing the process.

 

This year (5th/6th) I am doing a bible study course with Calvin - it is about Christianity, rather than teaching Christianity, and I think it will be good background for him. It contains a lot of philosophy and ethics, as well as contemporary social issues.

 

Laura

[nmoira]

 

Which book do you use?

For creation stories, we used Marduk the Mighty and some stories from the Virgina Hamilton book mentioned elsewhere in the thread.

[cajunrose]

I'm brand new here. I just found this forum and am excited! As an atheist future homeschooler, I have been battling this very thing. I have to say that Gretalynn, you said what I feel PERFECTLY. I feel so much better about possibly introducing Christianity into my DD's education. I hope you don't mind, but I quoted you in my blog. I want to remember what you said!

 

Stephenie

 

 

We are using SOTW Volume 1 right now. Since SWB starts with nomads about 7000 BCE, we did a short but fun unit on human evolution first. We discuss various religions as they come up, and for an 8 year old, I'm surprised at how well she has understood something not easy to grasp, which her father and I have taught her all along: that religious stories and mythologies don't have to be (literally/objectively) true in order to be (spiritually, meaningfully) true. We even teach her this about the stories of our own religion! The stories are meant to teach us something about who we are as humans and what we can and should do with our lives. It doesn't matter if the story didn't happen exactly the way it is told. What matters is how the story enhances our lives.

 

[Deece in MN]

I teach about different beliefs as they come up in our history cycle. We supplement in the early years with One Country, Many Religions, by Mary Pope Osborne. I teach the scientific origins of the universe and leave it up to them to decide if there is a god directing the process.

 

This year (5th/6th) I am doing a bible study course with Calvin - it is about Christianity, rather than teaching Christianity, and I think it will be good background for him. It contains a lot of philosophy and ethics, as well as contemporary social issues.

 

Laura

 

Laura, what is the bible study you are doing? We fit in with what most everyone has posted already so I won't repeat (we have read many of the books that have been mentioned and they have been great for sparking discussion and to just enjoy). I don't shy away from learning/teaching about Christianity just like we do about other religions. It is not easy to find a bible study that doesn't try to teach/convert to Christianity or assumes you already are Christian, though. I would love to know what you are using.

 

Thanks!

[Deece in MN]

Laura, I think I just answered my question. :)

I went back and looked at your post and noticed the link to the curriculum you are using. I am assuming you are talking about the Galore Park religion program?

I am going to Google and check it out. :)

[Leila]

We use secular curriculum too. And we are also Christians. For me, we do Bible study, so they know about what we believe in. But I don't skip subject especially in science just because it doesn't coincide with our Faith. I want them to have a knowledge about everything, different faith or religion out there. Different theories about creation. Different beliefs of people, past and present. Because I believe exposing them to things outside our faith can make them even a stronger believer of God.

[Karen in CO]

We start with evolution using these same books

Also, Dawn Publications has a gorgeously illustrated series by Jennier Morgan and Dana Lynne Anderson:

 

Born with a Bang, Book One, The Universe Tells Our Cosmic Story

 

From Lava to Life, Book Two, The Universe Tells Our Earth Story

 

Mammals Who Morph, Book Three, The Universe Tells Our Evolution Story

 

These books are great, really fun.

 

Life Story by Virgina Lee Burton is also a very good simple evolution picture book.

 

We study creation myths from different cultures. There are a couple of good anthologies. It is really interesting to read the myths from around the world.

 

During our first grade year, we have been reading folk and fairy tales from different cultures also. It gives a good look into how different people have passed their wisdom to their children.

 

As far as approaching religions, I start a lot of sentences with "Some people believe...." These conversations seem to come in clusters and are often triggered by stories we are reading.

[Audrey]

 

As far as approaching religions, I start a lot of sentences with "Some people believe...." These conversations seem to come in clusters and are often triggered by stories we are reading.

 

I think the phrase "some people believe..." must be the most oft used phrase in our homeschool -- not only in regard to religion, but also history, art, music, etc. :001_smile:

[Greta]

I hope you don't mind, but I quoted you in my blog. I want to remember what you said!

 

I'm honored, thank you! :001_smile: I'll have to check out your blog.

[Jenny in Atl]

I think the phrase "some people believe..." must be the most oft used phrase in our homeschool -- not only in regard to religion, but also history, art, music, etc. :001_smile:

:iagree:

[Rosie_0801]

Oops, double post and I can't get rid of it!

[Rosie_0801]

While my daughter is too young for me to be homeschooling yet, but I'm still spending lots time thinking and planning. Between dd's parents and godparents, there is an interesting mixture of beliefs and sympathies, so I'd better teach religion thoroughly! My plan at this stage is pretty intensive, but religion is an important key to understanding people and politics, so I think it will be worthwhile to approach it this way.

 

Grammar stage- the stories (such as bible stories and other religion's equivelents, books about what each religion believes, places of worship, founders/prophets.

Logic stage- chapter book level of holy books, about the stories (who wrote them etc), religious festivals, geography- (where it started and where are modern worshippers)

Rhetoric Stage- the adult religious texts, some history of religious sects, the philosophy of religion.

 

I intend to follow a four year cycle, as much as I can. I've sort of theme grouped instead of teaching in date order. It seems to make more sense.

 

1. Dead religions, animism, Shinto

2. Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Sikhism, then Taoism, Confucianism.

3. Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Christianity, Islam, Bahai

4. Humanism, Neopaganism, atheism, possibly psychology.

 

Its hard to find people to discuss this kind of stuff with, so I'll be delighted if you want to comment on this! I suppose my ultimate aim is for my daughter not just to know when someone (the media for example) is spouting crappola about some religion or other, but to know what the real deal is. I also want her to know why "religion is a lot of crap" (and other such comments) aren't true. This isn't meant to be a "bit of everything" which I find to be a lot of nothing, but a lot of everything! I'm not trying to teach my kids to be good Christians, pagans or anyone else. I expect they'll end up eclectic, but that's not really my business anyway. I'm approaching it as "these people believe this" about whatever topics seem to matter, from creation to abortion to the afterlife. When it seems age appropriate I'll answer questions about my beliefs and encourage her to ask other important people in her life. There are heaps of resources. Don't underestimate the picture story book section or your library! There is also a series "What do we believe" or something like that. I've only read the pagan one, but the rest have equally good reviews. They're suitable for middle grades, I think, and fine for older kids too. Plug "What do pagans believe" into the amazon search engine, and it should come up. Substitute pagan for any other religion and they should come up too.

 

:)

Rosie

[Shasta Mom]

Wow, Rosie, I love it! Can you adopt me?

[Mandamom]

of what you all did. My dh is atheist and I'm just plain confused so I made sure to teach as much as I could about as many religions as I could. As we progressed through history -- starting from the Big Bang -- as new cultures were introduced I tried to make sure to find as many of the religious background and other cultural facts about each group -- including poems and stories. We did a lot with the Native Americans.

 

I loved teaching -- well for me it was really learning about -- so many of the world religions. We did a lot with the Bible and Christianity. Of course, when you're teaching world history you can't avoid religion because that seems to form the basis for so many of our wars.

[Jenny in Atl]

Of course, when you're teaching world history you can't avoid religion because that seems to form the basis for so many of our wars.

 

That's an understatement! I love that John Mayer song, Belief.

 

Is there anyone who

Ever remembers

Changing their mind from

The paint on a sign

Is there anyone who

Really recalls

Ever breaking rank at all

For something someone yelled real loud one time

 

Oh everyone believes

In how they think it oughta be

Oh everyone believes

And they’re not going easy

 

Belief is a beautiful armor

But makes for the heaviest sword

Like punching underwater

You never can hit who you trying for

Some need the exhibition

Some have to know their trying

It’s the chemical weapon for the war

That’s raging on inside

 

Oh everyone believes

From emptiness to everything

Oh everyone believes

No one’s going quietly

 

We’re never gonna win the world

We’re never gonna stop the war

We’re never gonna beat this is

If belief is what we’re fighting for

We’re never gonna win the world

We’re never gonna stop the war

We’re never gonna beat this is

If belief is what we’re fighting for

 

Is there anyone who

Can remember

Ever surrendering

With their life on the line

 

What puts a hundred thousand children in the sand?

Belief can

Belief can

What puts a folded flag inside his mother’s hands?

Belief can

Belief can

[Rosie_0801]

Wow, Rosie, I love it! Can you adopt me?

 

Er. You're probably older than me, and live in a different hemisphere. I don't think it'd work. ;) You can, however, adopt my ideas.

:)

Rosie

[Guest Lorna]

We are secular home schoolers from the UK.

For history and science we have found that the Well Trained Mind approach has suited us very well: for example, The Kingfisher History Encyclopaedia and the How...Works series. It hasn't been a problem to teach the Big Bang theory and evolution using these sources. I also believe in teaching the children what the scientific and cultural consensus is at this time, but I always make sure that they know that that consensus evolves (excuse the pun!) and to be a good historian and scientist you must always think for yourself and ask questions.

The Story of the World we have also used without any problems. It presents prehistory as mythology, and I think this is the correct approach because it is as close to the truth as it is possible to get - pre written history. The Bible is also treated as a historical document, which of course it is, and we found it consistent with our secular approach to read it this way. I am not concerned if we cover biblical stories because a good knowledge of the bible is important in fully understanding all literature, Western and Eastern culture.

I do see certain differences between literature suggestions in Classical home education books and good private school reading lists; modern writers such as Allende, Plath, Theroux, Naipaul, and older writers such as Tolstoy, E M Forster, Turgenev, Zola, Greene, Henry James, Conrad, Dostoevsky, Hesse, Grass, Thomas Mann, Warton, Wilde, Camus and Virginia Woolf seem to appear only on secular lists. Ultimately I want my mature eighteen-year-olds to have read and discussed these writers.

There are also many science products and curriculum which look fantastic such as Apologia and Tapestry of Grace which I love the sound of but I know we wouldn't be able to adapt to a secular education.

We love the Galore Park books, Ellen McHenry's science curriculum and Singapore Maths all of which are secular.

 

For teaching beliefs, I have found it quite simple. We know friends and relatives of many different faiths. My husband's family and friends are all Catholic, and the children are invited to many celebrations and discussions regarding Catholicism. I believe that is their heritage and encourage them to know and understand it well. We also have Muslim, Jewish, Mormon, Protestant, Quaker and Jehovah's Witness friends. We learn a great deal from them and participate in many of their celebrations etc. I, personally, read a great deal of Buddhist texts, and so we read children's versions together. Buddhism is closest to my personal belief system. We have participated in Hindu and Sikh open days. Our aim is promote understanding and respect in our children of all faiths. I see religion as personal and not something to be solely learned from books. It is more important in my mind for them to meet people of other faiths and to realise how much they have in common with everyone.

[Harriet Vane]

Your post makes it sound like you are not against religion. You described yourself as a "seeker."

 

In that case, I would urge that, rather than presenting only non-religious views (or having a-religious learning), that you instead present many views. If you present only non-religious ideas on things then you are not really presenting without bias--you would be presenting WITH a bias against religious philosophy.

 

FWIW, even though I am comfortable in my beliefs as a Christian, I have always tried to present many sides of things to my dc, and to help them understand why others think of believe what they do. Even though it is my sincere prayer that they embrace a loving relationship with God as Christians, I also sincerely want them to have an honest understanding of the world and the people around them.

[Momof2kids]

We are creationists and have faith in Jesus but I just couldn't find a good fit for us with Christian materials. The younger grades I found to be dripping with God this and God that. It was too distracting. Different publishers have their own theology that is noticable in their books and I couldn't find a good fit for us with that and I didn't want to have to have my own footnotes on everything.

 

So now we comfortably and happily use the complete Oak Meadow curriculum. One of the reasons I like them because they DO go into the Bible in 6th grade so there is some Bible Literacy in their curriculum. They even recommend watching "The Ten Commandments". There are many other reasons I like them too but that's a different conversation.

 

For 7th and 8th grade we will only lightly go into OM Science (kind like extra reading) and really focus and study Apologia Science because like I said we are creationists.

 

For high school I am seriously considering MFW because I do want my kids to be Biblically literate. And after researching MFW people say that Christians with different theological views are able to use this curriculum without problems.

 

But overall I do have to say that we are not the kind to infuse God into everything we do and say and study all day. Of course He comes up but probably not as much as in other Christian homes. We don't pray before we eat. We no longer go to church (long story). We don't read the Bible often anymore. Therefore I think of us as more secular. And I gotta say for me personally, it's like a big weight is off of us. I hope when we use MFW for high school we are able to take it in and process it and embrace it. I think I really needed a break and need to see God through "new eyes" and there was just too much "noise" when I was immersed fully in the Christian lifestyle. So I'm looking VERY carefully at MFW before deciding for sure. There's a chance we may just stick with OM for high school except for science. I REALLY want a creationist view on that.

 

One of the posters says they may appear skitzophrenic about their Christian/Secular way of living. Well I wouldn't say it's skitzophrenic but I get what you're trying to say. I totally understand you and what it's like to live that way.

[Reeseepc]

I have a theory on teaching about religion and beliefs to my kids. I like to "teach them" without bias, but live my life according to my personal bias. The reason I want my kids to know about creation AND evolution is because they will be living in a world where they will need to know why others believe what they do, and know how to respond to them. We have used the K12 curriculum for different subjects for years (http://www.k12.com) and one of the reasons I love it is 1) it's classical, 2) while it doesn't emphasize a religious bias, it doesn't remove the history of religion from the lessons. You will learn about Judaism, Christianity, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. and where, in history, these beliefs occurred and how they impact the civilizations they are a part of. But one belief system isn't taught in their curriculum to be preferred over another.

 

I like that. :001_smile:

[Guest Lorna]

I find this article on the dilemmas of how to teach religion in schools and at home very thought-provoking.

[mrscopterdoc]

I have a theory on teaching about religion and beliefs to my kids. I like to "teach them" without bias, but live my life according to my personal bias. The reason I want my kids to know about creation AND evolution is because they will be living in a world where they will need to know why others believe what they do, and know how to respond to them.

 

I think for the most part I'm using a secular approach. We used mostly secular materials, but some faith based resources are so good, I can't help but use them. We are also a very open family, open to all ideas, faiths, no faiths, etc. So, unless something is really "pushy or offensive" I'm open to exploring its value in our studies.

 

 

 

I know you asked for completely secular, but I felt my thoughts might be pertinent. We are Christian, but I teach them that big bang theory, evolution, and the like are the truths that scientists currently find to be the most plausable.

 

I quite often explain that "XX" is what the book says, "YY" is what I believe (if it is different), and if they want to know what their dad thinks they need to ask him...and that other people believe "ZZ" or even "XYZ."

And, as I said we are Christian so the basic premises that God loves each of us and that Jesus was crucified, buried, and resurrected to make it possible to have a right relationship with God is not something I offer alternatives to.

 

Writing it out like this, it sounds a little schitzo...how can we be Christian but secular, too? Some would say we can't be...but it is where I am on my journey and I have to be honest with my kids about that.

 

 

 

We use completely secular materials, but I still teach them, well some of them, from the perspective of our beliefs, if that makes sense. When something comes up, it's a jumping off point for further conversation. I don't edit things out. So I'm not sure how much help I will be, since it sounds like maybe you're wanting not just secular materials, but a secular perspective? I have a completely secular perspective in many areas, (Math and science are just math and science. Period.) but with things like history, I find it hard (and not actually fruitful) to avoid religion. Am I making any sense? I think I'm rambling.

 

 

 

our approach is to respectfully yet critically teach about world views. (This is what X religion states...what do you think about that? How do you respectfully co-exist if you do not agree).

 

However, I would never leave out teaching about the Bible because it is foundational literature for Western Civilization. I think that choosing to not teach about the Bible (thoroughly) is to limit your dc's education.

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with all of the above. This is such an interesting topic!! I'm glad I am not alone in my chosen path. We are Christians, and go to church, but I choose a more secular education for my daughter. Sometimes it seems 'weird' but it seems to work.

[Mommy22alyns]

Your post makes it sound like you are not against religion. You described yourself as a "seeker."

 

In that case, I would urge that, rather than presenting only non-religious views (or having a-religious learning), that you instead present many views. If you present only non-religious ideas on things then you are not really presenting without bias--you would be presenting WITH a bias against religious philosophy.

 

 

You're absolutely right - and I have no problem teaching the Bible, in fact I do intend to. This is a learning experience for me too - someone upthread suggested One World, Many Religions by Mary Pope Osborne, and I look forward to reading it for myself too!

 

I really appreciate your point, and it's well-made. :) Thank you!

 

Everyone has had such great ideas and suggestions in this thread. I am learning more every day, and it's great to see so much diversity. It's a pleasant surprise.

[tinkgumby]

We are creationists and have faith in Jesus but I just couldn't find a good fit for us with Christian materials. The younger grades I found to be dripping with God this and God that. It was too distracting.

Can I just say how happy I am to hear someone else say this? I am a Christian and we go to church and all that, but that's how I have always felt as well. I did Abeka myself when I was homeschooled, and I remember thinking it was off-putting to have a scripture in the middle of my math book. I have no problem with people who want to immerse themselves in scripture everywhere they turn, but it was - and is - very distracting for me.

 

That being said, I do have several Christian-based books I plan on using this fall, using the same techniques many of you have mentioned, and doing a little editing as I go.

 

It's wonderful that each family can tailor their homeschool to their personal needs! (:

[Peela]

I have a great book called Darwin: Nature Reinterpreted. It's a beautiful picture book but took us quite a few days to get through. I really recommend it for middle school. A little while after reading it, the kids' uncle went to the Galapagos Islands and came back with lots of photos and stories. And soon after that, a tortoise that Darwin had taken from Galapagos- then the size of a dinner plate, now one of those ginormous ones, which had been sent from London to Brisbane Zoo (here in Australia)ong ago, had recently died of old age- it was very old, obviously. It was all so synchronous.

 

The truth is I don't really teach in a completely unbiased way, because I am not unbiased, or because I am completely unbiased- I see all religions and beliefs as things people cling to to create a sense of security in the great Unknown and Mystery that is life. That's why there are such a variety. But truth is truth, and not a belief (though many will present beliefs as truths) and basic qualities like honesty and curiosity, and the desire to serve or do good, do not need beliefs to back them up.

My kids sometimes find it a challenge that we have no family religion at all, particularly when their friends have such interesting sounding family religions such as paganism and gnosticism.

However, I do have a passion for comparative religion, and a tendency toward Buddhism, with a tinge of Hinduism and a touch of Taosim thrown in. Not the bells and smells, just the concept and development toward enlightenment- that is within everyone. Thats what I don't like about Christianity, although there is good stuff in there, so much of it is projected outwards, and depends on belief rather than self evident truths.

 

Anyway, I dont have any intention of teaching Creationism as an equally relevant theory as Evolution, but we do learn creation myths as that, as myths, as beautiful in their own right as any other myth, and I do teach Evolution as a theory that seems to make the most sense so far, considering we actually don't know because humans havent been around very long in the Big Picture to actually know. It's all theory.(But I clearly don't see Creationism as equally valid scientifically as Evolution and I wont teach that it is just to present a politically correct, balanced view).

I am using a wonderful book by K12 called The Human Odyssey as our spine for History for Ancients, and it is great at presenting the history of religions in a historical context. I used it as a springboard to go into several of the eastern religions that I have a fondness for. Not that the kids cared much, but it was something i wanted to share with them. We will delve further into Christianity, in a cultural context, in the next couple of years as we move through Roman and medieval History.

 

It would be great if we could say in a clear cut way, this is what we think and believe, and this is what they think and believe- you make up your own mind.Nice solid stuff. Instead, I would prefer to deconstruct all beliefs and see what is left, and just appreciate people for their diversity. It leaves us with nothing solid and a lot of questions, but thats just how it is for us.

[Parrothead]

The younger grades I found to be dripping with God this and God that. It was too distracting. Different publishers have their own theology that is noticable in their books and I couldn't find a good fit for us with that and I didn't want to have to have my own footnotes on everything.

This is exactly how I feel. We are Catholic. When we started homeschooling there wasn't much of a selection of Catholic materials available so I choose the secular route. And the few choices that were available were very heavy on religion and very light on the subject matter. The first Catholic science book I bought (one and only time to buy one) was more of a catechism book than a science book.

 

I want dd to have a strong foundation in science, history and our religion - not just our religion. So we try very hard to live our lives as Jesus wants us to while learning about science, history, grammer and math.