Avila Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I truly appreciate that I share faith in Christ with people of different denominations, and the friendship and prayer of other Christians has been very uplifting and inspiring. As a Catholic, though, I have found so much anti-Catholicism among fallen away Catholics. In most cases, the former Catholics I have met, I can honestly say, were simply poorly catechised so they never really learned their faith, and they may say things like they didn't feel like they were being "fed" in their Catholic church (which is inconceivable if you were taught and believe in the Real Presence). However, I'm my limited experience, I have found that the most vehement anti-Catholics are people who grew up in nominally Catholic families that had serious problems, dysfunctional relationships, things like alcoholism or abuse, and somehow they have put the blame of all of that on the Catholic Church or on God. I have seen this again and again, and it has led me to believe that our relationship with God and our view of the Church is strongly influenced by our childhood family dynamics and experiences. When I see situations in which personal wounds have negatively influenced someone's faith and relationship with the Church, I need to pray for that person and remember that Christ can heal all things. :iagree: I have seen a lot of really poorly catechized Catholics and lapsed Catholics, and it sadly is a failing of Catholic religious education in the 70s and 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretchen in NJ Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 :iagree: I have seen a lot of really poorly catechized Catholics and lapsed Catholics, and it sadly is a failing of Catholic religious education in the 70s and 80s. I feel it was the free love generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea Time Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 :iagree: I have seen a lot of really poorly catechized Catholics and lapsed Catholics, and it sadly is a failing of Catholic religious education in the 70s and 80s. Yes, that time frame caused lots of problems. My friend sent me this link for study this morning. Thought it was timely and I would share it: http://www.chnetwork.org/journals/readguide04.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiebird Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 :iagree: I have seen a lot of really poorly catechized Catholics and lapsed Catholics, and it sadly is a failing of Catholic religious education in the 70s and 80s. Yeah, I am actually learning more through my kids' classes than I did all the way though and with traditional Catholic cultural families. I'd never seen an Advent Wreath before last year, for example. Had no idea. How sad is that? (My childhood Parish was more interested in their Las Vegas nights though it seemed, of course :glare:). I'm from this generation of Southwest-side chicagoland Catholics that seemed to be more worried over the status of their parish in competition with other parishes and how important you were in that parish. Oh, and which of the bazillion Catholic high schools you sent your kids to, since only 'real' Catholics would be be able to or care enough to send their kids to a 9K/year school. All those pesky lower-income Roman Catholics weren't really Catholic if you didn't send your kid to Rita's or contribute big $$$$. Imagine my surprise on how much more I actually learned about my own religion once I got away from all the posturing. If my knowledge was only based on my childhood/teen experiences, I'd be a jaded lapsed Catholic too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giraffe Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Yes, that time frame caused lots of problems. My friend sent me this link for study this morning. Thought it was timely and I would share it: http://www.chnetwork.org/journals/readguide04.pdf Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I am a former Catholic as is my husband. I can tell you that we changed after we had a very through course on Catholic theology by a Catholic priest using a giant red book whose name I forget. While I had some issues with Catholic theology at that time (namely issues regarding Mary), my main concern was having purposeful Christian worship and education rather than pop psychology and liberal politics masquerading as a Church service. Along with my husband's dim view of the Catholic church (his brother was an altar boy and when he was serving at Communion, the Priest was ordering him to bring more Wine, not for the congregation, but for him since he was a drunk), we were attending a local Catholic congregation where in our minds, the Holy Spirit was not in attendance. No one there acted like anything reverent was happening and the priest droned on about sitcoms and Sandanistas. He also told me that Free Market economists would not be going to Heaven. That was enough for us. We started searching and ended up in a beautiful church that had an energized congregation. By that, I don't mean that people were jumping around the church or anything like that. I mean the people sang like they wanted to sing, responded without mumbling, looked at you with welcoming eyes when we were supposed to greet neighbors, and engaged in meaningful and respectful conversations without slinking out immediately after service. Now, did I know Catholic churches that weren't like the above? Yes, I had attended some earlier in life but after I started attending this other church and had classes there, a number of theological differences I had with the church came to light. I was much closer theologically to Presbyterians than to Catholicism. What does all this mean? To me, I choose the congregation and not solely the theology. So at times I am attending and joining the Methodists although I am a Once Saved person. At times, I am attending Baptist services although I am an infant baptism person. It doesn't make any difference to me most times since the services don't normally revolve around the differences. They are normally based on the vast amount of theology that we are in agreement and that would even be so if a Catholic attended the service. I, for one, don;t find anything sad about different denominations and churches. I think with more choices, more people have a chance to feel comfortable going to church and getting fed spiritually. I don't see Salvation as based on Church membership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OregonNative Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 Opinions on this book. Suggestions for Catholic Bibles? Is this a good Orthodox Bible to get? It get mixed reviews. Any other suggestions? I'm not even sure if it's written by Orthodox individuals. Any thoughts on this Orthodox book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OregonNative Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) Great Orthodox site explaining the 10 points Downloadable Orthodox Theology Textbooks Free Catholic Home studies. I signed up for WE BELIEVE... A SURVEY OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH Free Catholic Literature (scroll down) Edited January 3, 2011 by OregonNative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwka Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Catholic Bibles online: one used in liturgy (church services and LOTH) is New American Bible Douay Rheims Bible (sort of like King James for Protestants) New Revised Standard Version (a lot of people use this one for Bible Studies) All of the above have paper versions of course. For me the best book version is Ignatius Catholic Study Bible New Testament with commentaries done by Catholic Biblical Scholar dr Hahn. The OT is coming. You also might like Jerusalem Bible and Navarre Bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Any thoughts on this Orthodox book. Yes, this is a good Bible. I'm aware of the mixed reviews and there is a full English translational work in progress without relying on comparing and using current English translations. The NT of it is out. http://www.orthodoxanswers.org/eob/index.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2a&z Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Opinions on this book. Suggestions for Catholic Bibles? St. Joseph's Guide to the LOTH is just a pamplet that tells you what page to go to for each day of the year in the 4 Volume set of the LOTH. That way you know you are praying the correct prayers for that particular day. So you only need it if you are praying the LOTH from the 4 volume set. If you want a book that contains the acutal prayers, you could always try this. If you do, you'll need the St. Joseph's Guide to Christian Prayer. I pray the LOTH using the Christian Prayer Book. The 4 Volume set is really not necessary for lay people. I also recommend The Ignatius Catholic Study Bible New Testament. I can't wait for the Old Testament edition. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Opinions on this book. Suggestions for Catholic Bibles? Is this a good Orthodox Bible to get? It get mixed reviews. Any other suggestions? I'm not even sure if it's written by Orthodox individuals. Any thoughts on this Orthodox book. Your last link goes to the Orthodox Study Bible, did you mean a different book? (Since you'd already linked the OSB.) This is my Bible and I love it (this one is just the four Gospels). I will be getting the accompanying Epistles book next. For reasons I can't remember right now, I chose this one over the Eastern Orthodox Bible although it was appealing too. My husband has the OSB and he reads that regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OregonNative Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 Your last link goes to the Orthodox Study Bible, did you mean a different book? (Since you'd already linked the OSB.) This is my Bible and I love it (this one is just the four Gospels). I will be getting the accompanying Epistles book next. For reasons I can't remember right now, I chose this one over the Eastern Orthodox Bible although it was appealing too. My husband has the OSB and he reads that regularly. Oops! I was trying to link to The Orthodox Church New Edition by Timothy Ware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Oops! I was trying to link to The Orthodox Church New Edition by Timothy Ware. Yeah, that book is considered a standard work and is usually on most "must read" lists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I just finished reading a book about Eastern Orthodoxy and I have more questions ;). Sorry, I ask a ton of questions. I didn't want to completely hijack this thread so I will start another. I would love any clarification you guys could give me. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I just finished reading a book about Eastern Orthodoxy and I have more questions ;). Sorry, I ask a ton of questions. I didn't want to completely hijack this thread so I will start another. I would love any clarification you guys could give me. Thanks! Just link it here, so we can find it ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knit247 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Just link it here, so we can find it ;) :iagree::iagree::iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Just link it here, so we can find it ;) Haven't quite mastered that skill yet!!! I really need to ;). http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234392 Nevermind...that was easier than I thought!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Copy and paste from the address bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annlaura Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Sorry to revive this thread if it is trying to fade, but I only just finished reading through it. I have questions. Many questions. :) First, can someone tell me about Christian Ed instead of Sunday School in the Catholic church? And what is the fee for? Is it required only for certain age groups? For anyone, not just RCs, has the role of a particular church in your community influenced your decision on which to attend/join? I'm asking in part because we live in such a heavily RC area, I have been wondering if my family would have a better sense of belonging and support at our local parish. I guess I will start there. Thank you to all pp. This has been a very educational and thought provoking thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annlaura Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Sorry - can't edit for some reason. I meant to say, is religious ed required of all age groups, not is the fee for all age groups. Just wanted to clarify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avila Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Sorry to revive this thread if it is trying to fade, but I only just finished reading through it. I have questions. Many questions. :) First, can someone tell me about Christian Ed instead of Sunday School in the Catholic church? And what is the fee for? Is it required only for certain age groups? For anyone, not just RCs, has the role of a particular church in your community influenced your decision on which to attend/join? I'm asking in part because we live in such a heavily RC area, I have been wondering if my family would have a better sense of belonging and support at our local parish. I guess I will start there. Thank you to all pp. This has been a very educational and thought provoking thread. Our religious education is usually required for the years a child is preparing for a sacrament (typically 2nd grade for First Communion and 8th grade or 10th grade for Confirmation, though Confirmation age varies by diocese). Many times, this is taken care of inside the parochial schools for kids enrolled there. Public school kids are encouraged to attend CCD through Confirmation, but the requirement is usually only there for the year or two preceding it. The fees usually aren't that much, and they are meant to cover the cost of the books, copies, etc. Our fee here is $30 a year per child, and the classes run once a week for the school year. Our parish offers RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) for a year to prepare converts to the Church. Otherwise, we offer Bible studies, catechism studies, book clubs, and social clubs for adults. Nothing is required for adults, and what is offered will vary, depending on the size of the parish. I became Catholic because I studied and believe what the Church teaches. As it turns out, I have all of the support and benefits of being in a community here as well, but they didn't influence my decision to convert. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about it further. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) :iagree: Here too, the only religious ed requirements involve attending class prior to or during preparation for making sacraments. Religious ed is offered in our parish in various forms for all ages through confirmation (middle school) - on Sundays for little ones and on various weekday afternoons for grade-school kids. For me personally, the community had absolutely nothing to do with my choice of parish. It so happens that it's an enormous parish - huge - and there is a correspondingly large amount of offerings in terms of community-type activities and ministries, though at this point in my life I am not involved in any of that. I'm a bit annoyed, actually, that there aren't larger numbers of parishes where we live. I grew up in another part of the country which was heavily RC, and it was a lot easier to get into mass on Christmas, for example. Our church is standing room only for every single weekend mass. While I can imagine choosing a parish based on the particular type of community it includes, I would not take any of that into account when choosing a religion, though I'm not sure if that's what you were asking. Edited January 5, 2011 by wapiti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebug42 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I live in an inner city and our church is 1/2 block from my home. The majority of neighbors go there, many of whom are 2nd and 3rd generation members of the parish. I do love that about our parish and it was a determining factor in buying our house. We can hear the church bells chime every 15 minutes and it is a staple of our lives. I didn't choose the Catholic faith because of it but I can't imagine leaving our parish. I became Catholic there, both of my babies have been baptized there and my oldest dd had her First Holy Communion there last year. I do not participate in Religious Ed at our parish because they allow me to homeschool Religion. Most of the kids in our parish go to the school so we are a definite minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annlaura Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Thanks for the explanations. I sometimes feel so disconnected from our community, I was actually just thinking we might meet people at the local church, maybe even other hs'ers, and be part of the larger community. I would certainly not go to a church I had theological issues with just to be part of the local social life. But I have been having some trouble personally with my church, LCMS, not the least of which is that there are no other children anywhere close in age to DS4. My DH was raised RC, and I've been wondering lately about attending our parish church. I keep adding to and deleting from this post, which I'm going to interpret as me needing to stop typing and go back to pondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyFourSons Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Great Orthodox site explaining the 10 points Downloadable Orthodox Theology Textbooks Free Catholic Home studies. I signed up for WE BELIEVE... A SURVEY OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH Free Catholic Literature (scroll down) Thank you for these links, I have been in a spiritual funk recently and I think these will really help me snap out of it and get back where I should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Thanks for the explanations. I sometimes feel so disconnected from our community, I was actually just thinking we might meet people at the local church, maybe even other hs'ers, and be part of the larger community. I would certainly not go to a church I had theological issues with just to be part of the local social life. But I have been having some trouble personally with my church, LCMS, not the least of which is that there are no other children anywhere close in age to DS4. My DH was raised RC, and I've been wondering lately about attending our parish church. I keep adding to and deleting from this post, which I'm going to interpret as me needing to stop typing and go back to pondering. To answer a question from your earlier post: Different RC churches in our area have different ways dealing with homeschoolers. One I know requires attendance at catechism classes, another homeschool CCD with yearly testing, and ours has monthly meetings but expect you to do work everyday at home, with the work varying according to the teacher. I think the fee is about $50 per child. Sadly, because I feel very stongly about what it means to be RC, I can't go to just any RC church and feel comfortable. First of all, I want a reverent, truly Christ-centered beautiful worship experience because I believe God deserves the best we have to offer. I also need to have a church with teaching that is 100 percent in line with orthodox RC doctrine. Fortunately, there is a wonderful church near us that offers this, though it's not my local parish, where I can become sick at the goings-on. At the church we attend, families travel very far to attend because of what it offers theologically. It also helps that the community is amazing. So, when you travel and hour or more to get to church you can be comfortable taking it easy after Holy Mass, hanging around for even as long as you want to, talking, snacking, and letting the children play, a real benefit for hsers. We have clubs, activities, and sports teams, meeting on Sundays and during the week. Anyway, this long answer is a way to recommend that you think about what your priorities are and look into all of your options in a RC church. Depending on where you live, there should be different choices. At the least, I would hope that you would find a place where you will become closer to our Lord. Then, if it offers the community you want, all the better. Hopefully, they will go hand in hand. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annlaura Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Thank you. I am still struggling in my search/decision. I have returned to this thread a few times, and was actually thinking on it this evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 The Exploring Orthodox Christianity social group has been pretty active since this and the evangelical thread, if you'd like to come and dialogue with us. Lots of good questions being asked, and discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I am currently struggling with seeing outside Sola Scriptura as this is how I was raised (I was raised LCMS). I was baptized as a baby as was my DD. We took an oath to raise our DD according to God's word. I do not believe infant baptism gives the child salvation. I def. don't believe that individuals are predestined to ****ation. As far as salvation, I believe that is given to us through Christ's suffering, death, and resurrection-not predestination. Just a quick clarification--sorry it is so long after the fact. The LCMS does not teach predestination per se. It teaches that Jesus' suffering, death, and resurrection are for the salvation of all people, that God elected the saved, but that He did not elect anyone to be ****ed. (They might be, but He doesn't elect that.) It's one of those paradoxes that are so awesome. Edited January 16, 2012 by Carol in Cal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowWhite Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I can't read all of the responses, partly because of time and partly because of my season of life, but I did want to share one thought I find applicable. I have been doing a lot of research on the Trinity, Calvinism vs. Arminianism, and other theological issues. This is because I recently discovered the non-denominational faith I had been following (based on a charasmatic minister from the 50s and 60s) appeared to be incorrect and based on a certain amount of deception. What I have found may not ring true for you, but here goes: I have found that if you establish that the important component of faith for you is the Bible's infallibility and the presentation of the Gospel, then any number of churches may fit into your criteria. Even the Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate diminished in my view upon close scrutiny. That's because I found that the difference in belief was mainly in one's approach to the scriptures addressed. Both Calvinists and Arminians believe that Christ's atonement was sufficient for the sins of the world, but Calvinists go on to stipulate that it was efficient (useful) for the elect. I would contend that the climate of a church is an important consideration, as what it stands for on paper or in a list of doctrinal positions may not translate into the experience you would expect. Therefore, I recommend much prayer for guidance, much research into the leaders of the church and the issues they seem to find important, and most importantly, attending the church for a time to ascertain whether it is a good "fit" for your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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