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I'm going to do it again! (Buying Another Math Curriculum)


femke
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I'm going to buy a different math curriculum :blink:

This is a list of all the math curriculum I own (and all bought in 2010 :blushing: )

 

Lifepac K and 1 - What was I thinking?

MEP - Good, but doesn't work as a stand alone curriculum for us.

MM - I should really give this a go one day.... one day

CLE - Spiral is just not working right now

and now I'm going to buy R&S, my first choice :svengo:

 

Question: Do I really need the Grade 1 Teacher's Guide? I HATE teacher's guides with a passion. Saves me some money :D

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We switched from R&S after 4 years of it to MM and are SO glad. MM teaches a whole different way of approaching math. MY dd11 did R&S 1-4 and my ds7 is almost done MM2 and can now do mental math faster and with a greater # of approaches to it than dd. I wish I had always used MM! I've had dd go back and do MM 3 & 4 and wish I had had her do MM2 now that I see his. She learned to memorize facts, not gain conceptual understanding, and is really struggling now.

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Lol, I understand having what might possibly be construed as too many math curricula/supplements :lol: (I bought mine over *2* years, though ;)):

 

*SM 1a-3b; CWP 1-6 (yes, I bought them all when they were going oop ;))

*RS Activities for the Alabacus, TM & Worksheets; RS math games kit

*MEP

*CSMP

*Miquon, everything (6 books, 3 TMs, 300 rods)

*Mathematics Made Meaningful (another Cuisenaire rod program; I think I like it better than Miquon, actually)

*Arithmetic Village (R is getting this for Christmas :tongue_smilie:)

 

Plus random teach-the-teacher books, and math lit books. And at least two options for each secondary class :tongue_smilie:. I like being able to mix-n-match as the mood strikes me ;).

 

Enjoy your new math purchase :).

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and now I'm going to buy R&S, my first choice :svengo:

 

Question: Do I really need the Grade 1 Teacher's Guide? I HATE teacher's guides with a passion. Saves me some money :D

 

You don't absolutely need it, but you'll be leaving out a huge chunk of their math program without it. There's a fairly involved lesson to be done out of the TE before they ever get their worksheet for reinforcement. All of the teaching is done in that lesson, and new concepts are usually worked on for a couple/few days before they ever appear on the worksheets.

 

My little ones absolutely have conceptual understanding of the math they've covered in R&S. :001_smile: That's come from doing the teaching from the TE. We can spend a good 10-20 minutes with that and the white board before they even look at their worksheet.

Edited by SilverMoon
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Lol, I understand having what might possibly be construed as too many math curricula/supplements :lol: (I bought mine over *2* years, though ;)):

 

*SM 1a-3b; CWP 1-6 (yes, I bought them all when they were going oop ;))

*RS Activities for the Alabacus, TM & Worksheets; RS math games kit

*MEP

*CSMP

*Miquon, everything (6 books, 3 TMs, 300 rods)

*Mathematics Made Meaningful (another Cuisenaire rod program; I think I like it better than Miquon, actually)

*Arithmetic Village (R is getting this for Christmas :tongue_smilie:)

 

Plus random teach-the-teacher books, and math lit books. And at least two options for each secondary class :tongue_smilie:. I like being able to mix-n-match as the mood strikes me ;).

 

Enjoy your new math purchase :).

 

So which one did you end up using? I love hearing from people who have several programs and can critique them all.

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What is it about the rejected programs that will be different with R&S?

 

 

I have my fair share of math currics...and have sold my share as well...;)

 

I figured out that I was searching for a curric that would allow my ds to excell in his strengths and work on his weaknesses at the same time...this curric doesn't exist afaik. So, I use a mish-mash to meet his specific needs. We work out of Miquon, Singapore CWP, MM, and sometimes other things as well.

 

Think through (make pro/con lists) why each thing has failed so you don't just keep repeating the process without moving forward.

 

Is your dc understanding the concepts? Do you need more help with this, or is your dc getting within the 1st 15min and ready to move on already?

 

Does the program introduce new concepts too fast/too slow? Too much at once, or too drawn out in itty-bitty bites?

 

Is your dc gaining fluency with the math facts?

 

Is the page lay-out a factor? Will one of the programs work if you do 3/4 of it orally? On the white board?

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Are the ages in your signature (1, 3, 5) the ages of your children or their grade levels? It appears so from your other posts. I am just curious if the reason for your difficulties is that you are working with a 5 year old on Grade 1 math. Especially if the problem comes when discussing place value. This is a pretty advanced concept. I am not sure switching programs is going to clarify things.

 

I notice you posted one week ago that your son is "really loving" CLE.

Edited by stripe
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So which one did you end up using? I love hearing from people who have several programs and can critique them all.

Oddly enough, we aren't using my theoretical favorites, which are MEP, CSMP, and Miquon. MEP and CSMP suffer from me having to get them printed out - but R would *love* the CSMP books, so I at least need to get on that. MEP and Miquon suffer from me having a worksheet aversion in the younger years, and not being prepared enough to just pull activities out of it on the fly.

 

We are mostly using:

*SM 1a - R will pull it off the shelf on occasion, and we'll start at the beginning and work through as far as she feels like. Last time we got over halfway through, pulling out blocks to do the number bonds.

*RS - I'm pulling from both the math games and activities book, though no worksheets yet. R loves playing games, and I can look through the books and pick something out quickly.

*Cuisenaire rods - We do a lot of free play and pattern-making with 10x10cm wooden frames. I try to introduce Miquon and MMM ideas, but results are spotty atm.

*Random math lit, using the RS abacus to do the problems. I need to get better at posing new problems that are conceptually similar to those in the books - R has them pretty much memorized by now :tongue_smilie:. I have high hopes for Arithmetic Village (winging its way here now) - R loved all the samples, and she loves books and stories in general.

 

I still plan to get MEP/CSMP/Miquon in at some point - R is just 4.5yo, so I figure I've got time ;). We'll see if it ever materializes. I think I really need to just have them all printed out at Kinkos or something - getting them printed out here is just not happening, clearly.

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Are the ages in your signature (1, 3, 5) the ages of your children or their grade levels? It appears so from your other posts. I am just curious if the reason for your difficulties is that you are working with a 5 year old on Grade 1 math. Especially if the problem comes when discussing place value. This is a pretty advanced concept. I am not sure switching programs is going to clarify things.

 

I notice you posted one week ago that your son is "really loving" CLE.

 

I totally agree. I don't think most three-year-olds can understand place value, so I definitely don't think switching math programs will make any difference. Most 3yo's have just figured out one-to-one correspondence. My 6yo still has some difficulty with pv sometimes - just when it comes to adding by crossing tens, but still, once she has to cross a ten, she gets confused about how to do it. She didn't get one-to-one correspondence until she was almost 3.

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I think the ds is a 3 year old, the other a 1.5 year old.

 

Imo, fwiw, the child may not be ready for the level of work vs. the curricula choice not working. I do mean this in a gentle way, and would work to cultivate his love of math.

 

Are the ages in your signature (1, 3, 5) the ages of your children or their grade levels? It appears so from your other posts. I am just curious if the reason for your difficulties is that you are working with a 5 year old on Grade 1 math. Especially if the problem comes when discussing place value. This is a pretty advanced concept. I am not sure switching programs is going to clarify things.

 

I notice you posted one week ago that your son is "really loving" CLE.

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Ah, well, if I thought it not surprising that a 5 year old would have trouble with place value, that only goes more so for a 3 yr old or a 1,5 year (18 mo) old (I misinterpreted the comma in 1,5 to mean a 1 year old AND a 5 yr old). I also mean this gently. I wouldn't worry about this. Math Mammoth really stays under 10 for Grade 1, but provides a very thorough understanding of these, small numbers. MEP reception is very nice for the integers 5 and under, with lots of nice games. I think it's better not to push place value, especially at age 3. I think the problems your child is having indicate the difficulty of the concept NOT deficient curricula.

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and now I'm going to buy R&S, my first choice :D

 

R&S Grade 1 Math is VERY easy. I think it's more of a K level. I bought it as a supplement and quickly returned it.

 

RE: TM - There are some exercises that you would use the TM because the questions are in the TM and the student writes the answers in the workbook. BUT it's nothing you can't figure out or make up by yourself. I don't know about other grades though, just 1st grade.

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Stick with the R&S and GET the TM!! Sometimes I say to my husband, "I don't think I really need the TM . . . " Then he reminds me that I SHOULD have the tools to teach . . . that this is our KIDS we're talking about! :) Sometimes I really don't use the TM's much, but I'm usually very happy to have them for reference and a little steering.;) The money on the TM will be well spent.

 

Enjoy your math journey!

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MEP and Miquon suffer from me having a worksheet aversion in the younger years

 

I'm not big on worksheets in the primary grades but I have to say that both DS and I :001_wub: MEP Reception. Unfortunately, he's just about finished with it so I have to decide what to use for 2nd semester.

 

I have RS A on my shelf, which is what I had intended to use this semester but he wasn't ready. I could continue on with MEP Yr. 1 but I've heard that gets pretty advanced. I also have a copy of Saxon 1 from the virtual charter's lending library. It looks okay but I'd prefer to use something that's more conceptual like RS or MEP. Decisions, decisions...

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I'm not big on worksheets in the primary grades but I have to say that both DS and I :001_wub: MEP Reception. Unfortunately, he's just about finished with it so I have to decide what to use for 2nd semester.

 

I have RS A on my shelf, which is what I had intended to use this semester but he wasn't ready. I could continue on with MEP Yr. 1 but I've heard that gets pretty advanced. I also have a copy of Saxon 1 from the virtual charter's lending library. It looks okay but I'd prefer to use something that's more conceptual like RS or MEP. Decisions, decisions...

 

Miquon.:001_smile: You can do much of it without any worksheets, and the labsheets in the workbooks are very low-key...very non-workbookish for a workbook. I let my dc answer with C rods rather than write if writing is an issue. The lesson content and length is completely up to you, so there is no pressure to "be ready" b/c you just work where you are.

 

It does take a mom who is dedicated to reading the teacher's materials...and it does take some courage to step away from conventional currics and chart your own course. It's a good solid foundation even if you move on to something else in 1st grade.

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Not to put a damper on your excitement, but R&S 1st grade math is EXTREMELY repetitive and spiral. Just saying. I thought my DD would do well with it and instead it frustrates her to have to do the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over. If you get my drift.;) I am making her finish up the first half of grade 1 before moving into SM1a just so she has some math right now but gets more time to mature before launching into a more advanced math program.

 

That said, I rarely use the TM with her math program. Occasionally I pull it out when a concept is difficult for DD to grasp (learning how to subtract seemed hard for her at first). I also don't use the black lines. I have them, but it is just overkill for a kid that isn't struggling. Even with just doing the workbook, I let DD skip some of the pages.

 

As so many people rave about this program, I'm sure it's just a personal preference and learning style, but if you are buying R&S 1st grade expecting it to be any less spiral, you will be disappointed. I would use what you already have for now and give your child time to mature, then pick something else for 1st grade--SM, MM, something else.

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Wow! I'm sooo surprised to see 3 pages already!

 

Yes DS is 3,5. He loves math, but he hit the wall with place value. After last weeks post DH and I have been discussing what to do. He loves addition and subtraction, and since last week he does quite alright with place value. We think the problem is the spiral learning. There is not enough practice to make it stick. I understand what you're saying about not needing a math curriculum at this age, but he loves it and is other than the problems we have now, really good at it. Yes he loves CLE Math, but I don't think it's the best choice for us right now, I might switch back after a year or more, though.

 

We haven't used the Lifepac Math or the MM at all.

 

Why we're going to try R&S? It's mastery, not colorful (distracting), it moves slooooowly, LOTS of problems.

 

CLE's LA is spiral as well, but no problems with it at all!

 

So...now I'll read the rest of the replies:tongue_smilie:

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Wow! I'm sooo surprised to see 3 pages already!

 

Yes DS is 3,5. He loves math, but he hit the wall with place value. After last weeks post DH and I have been discussing what to do. He loves addition and subtraction, and since last week he does quite alright with place value. We think the problem is the spiral learning. There is not enough practice to make it stick. I understand what you're saying about not needing a math curriculum at this age, but he loves it and is other than the problems we have now, really good at it. Yes he loves CLE Math, but I don't think it's the best choice for us right now, I might switch back after a year or more, though.

 

We haven't used the Lifepac Math or the MM at all.

 

Why we're going to try R&S? It's mastery, not colorful (distracting), it moves slooooowly, LOTS of problems.

 

CLE's LA is spiral as well, but no problems with it at all!

 

So...now I'll read the rest of the replies:tongue_smilie:

 

In that case, I would totally recommend R&S. It sounds like just what you are looking for. DD is almost through the first book and so far she hasn't done anything more than her 5's addition facts and 2's subtraction facts. For every new concept learned, there are about 10 billion pages to help reinforce it.:tongue_smilie:

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Wow! I'm sooo surprised to see 3 pages already!

 

Yes DS is 3,5. He loves math, but he hit the wall with place value. After last weeks post DH and I have been discussing what to do. He loves addition and subtraction, and since last week he does quite alright with place value. We think the problem is the spiral learning. There is not enough practice to make it stick. I understand what you're saying about not needing a math curriculum at this age, but he loves it and is other than the problems we have now, really good at it. Yes he loves CLE Math, but I don't think it's the best choice for us right now, I might switch back after a year or more, though.

 

We haven't used the Lifepac Math or the MM at all.

 

Why we're going to try R&S? It's mastery, not colorful (distracting), it moves slooooowly, LOTS of problems.

 

CLE's LA is spiral as well, but no problems with it at all!

 

So...now I'll read the rest of the replies:tongue_smilie:

 

Based on what you wrote here, I would not buy a new math program. I would continue using what has been working as your spine and supplement the MM place value pages since you have them already. You really do not need to buy a whole new program when they get stuck on a topic.

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MEP: Used it for Reception, it was waaay to easy. But I loved it :tongue_smilie:

 

MM: I have the Blue series. I think it is absolutely HIDEOUS! :D I can't stand it, guess that's why we haven't tried it yet.

 

McRuffy: I'll have a look

 

Miquon: No, I'm not dedicated to using a TM, I wish I was.

 

:lol: The last 2 replies: R&S is what you're looking for vs. Stick with CLE! No, that's not at all confusing!

 

I'm off checking MM again :w00t:

Edited by femke
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MM is not fancy looking, but the thought behind it is very clear and step-by-step.

 

MEP Y1 is very nice. Lots of unusual ways to look at things. Not just arithmetic drill like

1+5 = ?

type questions, but things where the child really needs to think. I think you should consider it. It's not so fancy looking either, but it is very thought provoking.

 

You will notice though that MM does place value in Y2, I think, and MEP introduces numbers between 10 and 20 in Y1 but not really place value per se, so I really think you could do a fair amount without doing place value that would still be interesting and educational, in terms of depth.

 

If he is having trouble with one concept, I'd do something else for a while.

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Your son is only 3 :confused:

Give him a break :)

 

He is NOT developmentally ready for Place Value . Even if he is smart. CLE math 100 and Singapore 1 are for children at least 6 years old !

 

Play with him instead and allow him to be a child.

 

That's an advice from an experienced mama of four with a science& math degree and mathaholic too but not to the point of spoon feeding advanced math to a 3 year old.

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You will notice though that MM does place value in Y2, I think

 

It's in 1B of the light blue series (that's our next section to do ;) ).

 

I wouldn't worry too much about place value sticking at 3.5, but I can understand wanting mastery vs. spiral. My son did Saxon at school and was incredibly bored by it. He loves Math Mammoth, as do I. No, it's not flashy, but it's more colorful than Saxon was! :lol:

 

I think for the age you're doing, playing with MEP Y1, Miquon, playing Rightstart games, and generally using manipulatives would be a great route to go. Make it fun, fun, fun. If he gets tired of it, set it aside for a bit. You have many years ahead of you to get all the math in. My son was able to do some addition/subtraction in his head at age 3, but I didn't do anything beyond pointing out math in life. He still loves math now and is ahead of his grade level (though we're working through MM on some things he knows because he tends to figure things out on his own and not have a FULL understanding, so I'm filling in those holes before we move on). I don't really want him to get too far ahead of grade level, because at some point, his grade level in math could conflict with his developmental readiness for the logical thinking of higher math. I'd rather not have to do pre-algebra for 4 years waiting on him to be ready for algebra. :tongue_smilie: Of course, I haven't looked at what the folks on the accelerated learner board say about that subject.

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Your son is only 3 :confused:

Give him a break :)

 

He is NOT developmentally ready for Place Value . Even if he is smart. CLE math 100 and Singapore 1 are for children at least 6 years old !

 

Play with him instead and allow him to be a child.

 

That's an advice from an experienced mama of four with a science& math degree and mathaholic too but not to the point of spoon feeding advanced math to a 3 year old.

 

:iagree:My 5 y.o. wasn't ready for place value! I completely understand that 3 y.o.s are crazy busy and need something to do, but if I really wanted to do math with one that young, I would look at Games for Math or Kitchen Table Math.

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I think she said 3, 5....meaning the 5 yr old? Either way, even 5 is young for 1st grade concepts. I honestly can't imagine going through all those math programs by 5 yrs old. I highly think it's a developmental issue, not a curriculum issue. I'm even a curriculum junkie and trust me, have/had my share of bought curriculum.

 

Not to be disrespectful, but it's just a lot of programs already for 5. I could see that many if he's around 2nd grade...:tongue_smilie:

 

Sometimes, the more you change, the more confused they get. You can always add more problems of the same, and go every other day or every other week with a different concept. Plus they're always going to get stuck. That's when you pull out more of the same concept problems or just stop and give it more time.

Edited by alilac
Oh I see....1.5 years.
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Your son is only 3 :confused:

Give him a break :)

 

He is NOT developmentally ready for Place Value . Even if he is smart. CLE math 100 and Singapore 1 are for children at least 6 years old !

 

Play with him instead and allow him to be a child.

 

That's an advice from an experienced mama of four with a science& math degree and mathaholic too but not to the point of spoon feeding advanced math to a 3 year old.

 

Some children don't like to play all day, some children LOVE to learn, some children want to do math on worksheets, even some 3 year olds! My 3yr old is fine with CLE LA 1 right now and loving it, instead of pulling out his toys he pulls out his workbooks. He wants to do math and he loves it, he cried today because he doesn't want to stop CLE, but he'll be fine when we find something else. He is just not all that into hands-on learning, he much rather does it on paper.

 

- He knows his 1-10 additions

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I'm kind of shocked that you've spent money on four different math programs and are about to buy a fifth for a kid who is only 3 years old. I agree with those who said that he's not developmentally ready for some of these things, even if he does like "doing math." My kids like playing with my keys and honking my car horn, but they're not developmentally ready to drive lol.

 

I think he needs to be allowed to just be a kid and do things toddlers and preschoolers do, and you need a 12 step program or something for this math curriculum purchasing addiction! :lol:

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My list doesn't quite equal yours, but this is what I own and what I use:

 

Math-u-See: own it, never used it. I can tell by looking at it, it's not for us.

Miquon: own it, haven't used it, but just ordered book one to try. For some reason I owned a lot of the other materials, but not book one. Duh.

Mathematics made Meaningful: Have used parts of it. Good.

Teaching Textbooks: Use this with one ds. Best fit so far.

Right Start: I never owned this, but looked at a friend's copy once. I ran screaming from the house.:eek:

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I'm kind of shocked that you've spent money on four different math programs and are about to buy a fifth for a kid who is only 3 years old. I agree with those who said that he's not developmentally ready for some of these things, even if he does like "doing math." My kids like playing with my keys and honking my car horn, but they're not developmentally ready to drive lol.

 

I think he needs to be allowed to just be a kid and do things toddlers and preschoolers do, and you need a 12 step program or something for this math curriculum purchasing addiction! :lol:

 

I hadn't even realized this was for a three year old! Yeah, I would say:chillpill:. Love the 12 step idea.:D

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- He knows his 1-10 additions

That's why I'm recommending you look (again?) at MEP. It's more than just fill-in-the-equations. It's very puzzley. One must think to use it. It may still be young for a 3 year old (she's writing "3,5" -- that means 3 - 1/2) ! But it doesn't do anything with place value in Y1 that I can see.

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That's why I'm recommending you look (again?) at MEP. It's more than just fill-in-the-equations. It's very puzzley. One must think to use it. It may still be young for a 3 year old (she's writing "3,5" -- that means 3 - 1/2) ! But it doesn't do anything with place value in Y1 that I can see.

 

Yeah, but MEP requires pretty logical, sequential thinking to solve those puzzles. So difficult that Year 1 at times puzzles my 6 y.o. I think Reception might work well for her, but Year 1 I would think would be hard to impossible for a 3 y.o. It is definitely not your average paper and pencil math.

 

Maybe more workbooks from Barnes & Noble or Costco or something would work?

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Some children don't like to play all day, some children LOVE to learn, some children want to do math on worksheets, even some 3 year olds! My 3yr old is fine with CLE LA 1 right now and loving it, instead of pulling out his toys he pulls out his workbooks. He wants to do math and he loves it, he cried today because he doesn't want to stop CLE, but he'll be fine when we find something else. He is just not all that into hands-on learning, he much rather does it on paper.

 

- He knows his 1-10 additions

 

you know, I really understand advanced kids. I have no problem with you using that level of work with your 3 year old if he gets it and enjoys it.

 

However if there is something he does not get I don't think the answer is to buy several other programs. I lost count of how many you already have. wow. and I love curricula and my kids used it young etc. but I would just keep working with it different ways with what you have.

 

But I guess there is really no harm in buying it if you have the cash and feel like it. I just don't think there is a magical program out there that will suddenly teach your 3 year old place value that the other programs don't have.

 

the one I used when my kids were young by the way is RightStart. So if you are itching to have the complete curriculum library add that to the list :001_smile:

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He may love to do math but his brain probably cannot handle what you are trying to teach him. That is why you have hit a wall. It doesn't matter what curriculum you use, you will still hit that wall because he is not ready for what you are trying to teach him.

 

I don't have a solution for you other than playing games and do more of a living math approach (which, by the sounds of it, he wouldn't like) or do more worksheets on a review level (but again, it sounds like he wouldn't like that either.) I wouldn't, though, buy a new program. I think it would be a waste of money.

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My advice:

 

1. If he doesn't understand, be patient. There is no rush. (Even for advanced kids, that's awfully young; you'll be surprised at how quickly other things may come later, even if he does no more math for a year. Some advanced kids learn in fits and starts.) Back up and cement the foundation, as long as he's interested and not frustrated. If he's not interested, and he is frustrated with the new concept, I'd drop it for a long, long while. At this age, there is no timetable, no grade level standard to be met. Play and enjoy the moments.

 

2. At the younger ages, I am very fond of manipulatives for math, in particular Montessorri style. They have served my kids well.

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Yeah, but MEP requires pretty logical, sequential thinking to solve those puzzles. So difficult that Year 1 at times puzzles my 6 y.o. I think Reception might work well for her, but Year 1 I would think would be hard to impossible for a 3 y.o. It is definitely not your average paper and pencil math.

 

Maybe more workbooks from Barnes & Noble or Costco or something would work?

You're right. I agree with you.

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