TSA, Sanitary Pads, BooKs, Jewelry

[joannqn]

I didn't see this story pop up here.

From the UK

 

There are four things to get out of this story:

 

The main story is that the woman was wearing a flannel sanitary napkin causing her to be pulled from the full body scan for a pat down. The extra fabric down there looked suspicious, and the pat down left her crying because she's an assault survivor.

 

Another woman was quoted as saying two male TSA agents were staring at her large BooKs so much that it was obvious why she was picked out for additional screening.

 

Doctors are showing concern about the spread of diseases via pat downs because the agents aren't changing their gloves between passengers. They specifically mention syphilis, lice, gonorrhea, chlamydia, strep, staph, v, cholerae, papilloma, enteroviruses, herpes, hepatitis A, and noro as spreadable via the pat downs. They suggest requesting the agents use a fresh pair of gloves, changing clothes after your pat down, and washing your hands after the pat down to lesson your chances of becoming infected.

 

A UK woman in the comments mentioned getting married in Las Vegas and being chosen to be searched. She was separated from her new husband for 15 minutes while they thoroughly searched her. They made her remove all of her jewelry and "excessive clothing" (a jumper that was appropriate for the weather). When her possessions were returned, her wedding ring was missing and never turned back up.

 

I'm so stinking glad we've decided not to fly for any reason.

[elegantlion]

:glare: The not changing gloves part is just gross. I don't care if someone is fully clothed or not. I already have a suppressed immune system and when I fly I'm more vigilant about it because of the enclosed airspace. I also try not to touch other people, but now I'm possibly going to be patted down by someone who has already touched multiple people with their gloves. YUCK!!

[Liza Q]

We are flying to Orlando (Disney) in January and I am very perturbed. If we had know about all this before I planned this trip in October.....my husband hates to drive so we might not have planned this trip at all :001_huh:

 

Our current plan is to through the scanners (they have them here at JFK) and pray that none of us are chosen for a pat down. If we are, well, I will request fresh gloves!

 

I am mostly concerned about my daughters...it is just so creepy!

[lovemyboys]

Our current plan is to through the scanners (they have them here at JFK) and pray that none of us are chosen for a pat down. If we are, well, I will request fresh gloves!

 

I am mostly concerned about my daughters...it is just so creepy!

 

 

:iagree: They're exempting small children but I think pre-teen/teen girls would be particularly alarmed at this. And their parents for them.

 

I've heard it suggested that the aggressive pat-downs may be a round-about way of having us put up with the scanners. That's a lot of new expensive technology that they don't want to go to waste.....

[fhjmom]

I said the same thing. I think the more" thorough" pat downs were added as a deterrent to opting out of the scans.

:iagree:

:iagree: They're exempting small children but I think pre-teen/teen girls would be particularly alarmed at this. And their parents for them.

 

I've heard it suggested that the aggressive pat-downs may be a round-about way of having us put up with the scanners. That's a lot of new expensive technology that they don't want to go to waste.....

[Rivka]

The thing about diseases being spread is ridiculous. There is absolutely no way that you could get syphillis, gonorrhea, etc. from a fully-clothed patdown.

[Wheres Toto]

We are flying to Orlando (Disney) in January and I am very perturbed. If we had know about all this before I planned this trip in October.....my husband hates to drive so we might not have planned this trip at all :001_huh:

 

I am mostly concerned about my daughters...it is just so creepy!

 

I agree about the creepiness for young girls.

 

I also think the glove thing is gross but wonder if it's legit.

 

You should take the auto-train to Orlando. It leaves from Virginia and is a pretty pleasant way to travel. :001_smile:

[hsmom27]

I don't know about syphilis etc... but you absolutely could spread scabies that way. My DD came home from Vietnam with a horrible case of scabies and the waistband and neckline are usually two of the worst areas. DD has scars all around her waistband from all the scratching she did. I'd absolutely ask for a fresh pair of gloves even between family members.

[Ali in OR]

How much of this is much ado about nothing? Or much ado about not much?

 

My dd is in a wheelchair and has a ton of meds we have to carry on with us. We are not easy to get through airport security. We have always been treated with respect. My observation is that female TSA agents check female passengers. It would be very easy to drum up a lot of fear about lascivious male TSA agents patting down our daughters, but that just hasn't been the case with what I have seen. In the airports we have been in, if anyone needs to touch my daughter they always go out of their way to have a female agent do it. They tell me what they need to do or check and I am also able to hold her while they check her chair. They also speed us along, sometimes to the front of the line but usually to a side line to get us through as quickly as can be done.

 

Are these horror stories based on your own experience or people you actually know? Seems like just a lot of hype to put fear into people when the reality that we have experienced has been far different. Not saying the security system is fun or perfect, but I don't think it is a den of evil either.

[mommaduck]

Some people here have experienced it and there has been much reporting...main concern has been those with medical attachments. One man had warned the agents that they can't touch the catheter in his stomach, they broke the seal anyway, spilling urine all over him, and walked off leaving him a mess. A person on here has had to deal with her husband being told to disconnect his subcutaneous diabetic pump...that can cause all sorts of problems. Others can't do scanners for health concerns, yet cannot do the pat down due to past assualt. And yes, items DO intentionally disappear at airports.

[aggieamy]

How much of this is much ado about nothing? Or much ado about not much?

 

My dd is in a wheelchair and has a ton of meds we have to carry on with us. We are not easy to get through airport security. We have always been treated with respect. My observation is that female TSA agents check female passengers. It would be very easy to drum up a lot of fear about lascivious male TSA agents patting down our daughters, but that just hasn't been the case with what I have seen. In the airports we have been in, if anyone needs to touch my daughter they always go out of their way to have a female agent do it. They tell me what they need to do or check and I am also able to hold her while they check her chair. They also speed us along, sometimes to the front of the line but usually to a side line to get us through as quickly as can be done.

 

Are these horror stories based on your own experience or people you actually know? Seems like just a lot of hype to put fear into people when the reality that we have experienced has been far different. Not saying the security system is fun or perfect, but I don't think it is a den of evil either.

 

That's what I wonder too. I have traveled a lot and been patted down a few times. It has ALWAYS been by a woman. I have a hard time believing that they are allowing men to pat down women and vice versa. It seems like the TSA would like to protect themselves from potential problems by avoiding mixed gender touching.

[Murmer]

The thing about diseases being spread is ridiculous. There is absolutely no way that you could get syphillis, gonorrhea, etc. from a fully-clothed patdown.

 

The reports that I have heard have had multiple people say that they reach into the waistband of your pants so there is the potential to have the gloves touch skin. It depends on where underwear lands in relation to waistband and how far they reach in. I have heard an inch to down to knuckles.

[2cents]

The thing about diseases being spread is ridiculous. There is absolutely no way that you could get syphillis, gonorrhea, etc. from a fully-clothed patdown.

 

:iagree: It is a pat-down not a gyn appt. ;)

[ChandlerMom]

I didn't see this story pop up here.

From the UK

 

There are four things to get out of this story:

 

The main story is that the woman was wearing a flannel sanitary napkin causing her to be pulled from the full body scan for a pat down. The extra fabric down there looked suspicious, and the pat down left her crying because she's an assault survivor.

 

Another woman was quoted as saying two male TSA agents were staring at her large BooKs so much that it was obvious why she was picked out for additional screening.

 

Doctors are showing concern about the spread of diseases via pat downs because the agents aren't changing their gloves between passengers. They specifically mention syphilis, lice, gonorrhea, chlamydia, strep, staph, v, cholerae, papilloma, enteroviruses, herpes, hepatitis A, and noro as spreadable via the pat downs. They suggest requesting the agents use a fresh pair of gloves, changing clothes after your pat down, and washing your hands after the pat down to lesson your chances of becoming infected.

 

A UK woman in the comments mentioned getting married in Las Vegas and being chosen to be searched. She was separated from her new husband for 15 minutes while they thoroughly searched her. They made her remove all of her jewelry and "excessive clothing" (a jumper that was appropriate for the weather). When her possessions were returned, her wedding ring was missing and never turned back up.

 

I'm so stinking glad we've decided not to fly for any reason.

 

Don't believe everything you read gals. Geesh. Let's use the same logic skills we're supposed to be teaching our kiddos.

 

And the assertion that you could get all these diseases form a pat down? Is that the same source claiming they got pregnant from a toilet seat?

 

As to the gloves, they certainly DO change them EVERY TIME. Why? Because after each pat down their gloves are tested and they're not looking for syphillis.

 

As to the tale of the missing wedding ring. Who in their right mind takes their wedding ring off when they go thru screening?

 

Our media is in a tizzy over false tales while real news, like China intercepting 15% of world internet traffic for 18min from select sensitive sites is barely a blip. And we hear about the new congress pushing to freeze federal wages, but skip the part where those same "restore fiscal responsibility" congressmen made sure THEY and their staffers were exempt for the pay freeze.

 

Smoke and mirrors, folks! Keep your eyes on the magician's hands.

[Kay in Cal]

My DH had a bad TSA experience on our last family trip, this would have been in July so it was before the "aggressive" pat-downs. He was pulled out of the normal line randomly, I guess, and asked to go through the scanner in the Richmond, VA airport. I personally would have a problem with strangers seeing my naked body, even virtually, and was quite nervous that I would be chosen for the scanner. I had already decided to ask to "opt out", but that was before the new "super-grope" pat downs.

 

Of course, I wasn't selected. It was my husband who was scanned.

He stepped into the scanner, and they told him he had to take off his belt. Then, put his hands in the air. He had lost a lot of weight just before this (in and out of the hospital all spring, had just had major abdominal surgery 3 weeks before). So when he takes his belt off and puts his hands in the air... his pants start to fall down. He was trying to stand so that they wouldn't fall off, and the TSA agent kept telling him to put his feet closer together.

 

I could not see the two agents faces from my vantage point, dh said that they were snickering and obviously telling him to move his legs to see how long it would take for his pants to fall off. He was very upset, and has now decided that we no longer fly. Usually we fly 2-3 times a year cross country, but we are going to take the extra week and drive it.

 

So, in response to post above, just because I want to opt out of strangers seeing me naked, or groping me, or whatever does not show a lack of logical thinking.

[StaceyinLA]

I put ds on a plane to Hawaii last week. I went through security with him because he is 15 and I wanted to wait with him til boarding.

 

We experienced nothing unusual, and saw no one else experience anything either. We were in a reasonably long line so we witnessed at least 100 or so people going through security. No scanners. No patdowns. No nothing.

[Kay in Cal]

Not all airports have them in place yet, or have them for every lane yet... some still use just metal detectors for some lanes. There is a thread at the link of where they have the scanners:

 

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1138014-complete-list-airports-whole-body-imaging-advanced-imaging-technology-scanner.html

[ChandlerMom]

So, in response to post above, just because I want to opt out of strangers seeing me naked, or groping me, or whatever does not show a lack of logical thinking.

 

Choosing to opt out of airport security is a personal choice, not a matter of logic. But if you choose to believe every sensational story you see because it supports your internal beliefs, that would show a lack of logic.

 

Speaking of sensationalism: GROPING: (1) to feel or search about uncertainly -- nothing uncertain about a pat down. Every word is scripted and each step has to be performed exactly to procedure, (2) touching another person in an aggressively sexual way -- yeah, not sure many guys would find patting down an 85yo man with artificial hips a "sexual" experience.

 

Maybe if we move away from such inflammatory (and erroneous) terms we could really have a dialog about balancing privacy and security in this country. We want to be safe, but we don't want to be inconvenienced. We want them to only search the terrorists, not us. There are those who want to polarize us (the populace) instead of having intelligent debate about a difficult subject. Don't let them. Don't feed into it.

[lynn]

:leaving:

Edited December 1, 2010 by lynn

[Kay in Cal]

I do want to have a dialog about security and privacy... I think privacy has been thrown out the window. I do believe that a pat-down that uses the flat of the hand to feel someone's genitals and between the buttocks is indeed agressively sexual in nature. That doesn't mean that the TSA agent is enjoying it. In fact, I would guess most of them find it intrinsically distasteful. But I stand by the accuracy of "grope".

 

I don't think this debate is necessarily polarizing, or all smoke and mirrors. I think most people *who fly frequently* believe that the security is both invasive and probably not good enough to screen out many types of real threats. There have been polls showing very different reactions from people in general vs. those who fly more than once a year (a small minority). I have flown multiple times a year every year since I was 12, including many international flights. And the change has been awful. Flying with two small children just makes it worse.

 

There are multiple approaches to security, some of which are less invasive and are more effective. My mother, for instance, flies frequently to various countries in the middle east on business. She has flown El-Al many times on trips to Israel. There are no body-scanners, no pat downs, and they have awesome security. What they do is have you show up veeeery early, watch you, and... profile. Again, that raises issues of freedom and rights. But she sure feels secure on those flights.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Kay in Cal

[Mrs Mungo]

Choosing to opt out of airport security is a personal choice, not a matter of logic. But if you choose to believe every sensational story you see because it supports your internal beliefs, that would show a lack of logic.

 

I agree that we should stay away from inflammatory terms and inflated news stories.

 

Maybe if we move away from such inflammatory (and erroneous) terms we could really have a dialog about balancing privacy and security in this country. We want to be safe, but we don't want to be inconvenienced. We want them to only search the terrorists, not us. There are those who want to polarize us (the populace) instead of having intelligent debate about a difficult subject. Don't let them. Don't feed into it.

 

I somewhat disagree with this. I want to be safe, I don't care about being inconvenienced. We fly quite a lot. Inconvenienced is things like not being able to carry my hair products on a plane. I think the scanners are too invasive, too expensive and ultimately aren't going to catch the people who truly have something to hide.

 

I don't think this debate is necessarily polarizing, or all smoke and mirrors. I think most people *who fly frequently* believe that the security is both invasive and probably not good enough to screen out many types of real threats.

 

I agree with this.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Don't believe everything you read gals. Geesh. Let's use the same logic skills we're supposed to be teaching our kiddos.

 

And the assertion that you could get all these diseases form a pat down? Is that the same source claiming they got pregnant from a toilet seat?

 

As to the gloves, they certainly DO change them EVERY TIME. Why? Because after each pat down their gloves are tested and they're not looking for syphillis.

 

As to the tale of the missing wedding ring. Who in their right mind takes their wedding ring off when they go thru screening?

 

Our media is in a tizzy over false tales while real news, like China intercepting 15% of world internet traffic for 18min from select sensitive sites is barely a blip. And we hear about the new congress pushing to freeze federal wages, but skip the part where those same "restore fiscal responsibility" congressmen made sure THEY and their staffers were exempt for the pay freeze.

 

Smoke and mirrors, folks! Keep your eyes on the magician's hands.

 

:iagree:

[Heather in WI]

In every case it is not all smoke and mirrors! This story has me really upset!

 

 

Mother Kept In “Glass Cage†For Almost An Hour By TSA For Resisting Over Breast Milk

 

 

 

The latest case of TSA tyranny to hit the headlines comes in the form of a young mother who was subjected to enhanced groping and then shut inside a screening box for almost an hour by agents after she refused to allow them to put her breast milk through an x-ray device, a legitimate request that is even written into the TSA’s own guidelines.

 

 

 

The ordeal, which took place at Phoenix airport earlier this year, was captured on security cameras, which Stacey Armato, who is also a lawyer, gained access to, but only after repeated requests and careful editing by the TSA had taken place.

 

[joannqn]

I watched that entire forty minute TSA security video. She ended up missing her flight back home to her son, too.

[Sputterduck]

The thing about diseases being spread is ridiculous. There is absolutely no way that you could get syphillis, gonorrhea, etc. from a fully-clothed patdown.

 

And if a person is wearing a skirt?

 

I know women who don't wear underwear.

 

 

 

TMI warning:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some women have more fluids than others. My underwear would be wet on the side they run their hands over and if someone like me had something catchable it would definitely be on their gloves. I am so glad I'm not flying anywhere. That's is SO gross.

[Sputterduck]

Another TMI:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I bled all over myself a couple days in a row during my cycle this last week. If gloved hands went anywhere near that area they would have been contaminated with blood. Not OK.

[mommaduck]

TMI warning:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some women have more fluids than others. My underwear would be wet on the side they run their hands over and if someone like me had something catchable it would definitely be on their gloves. I am so glad I'm not flying anywhere. That's is SO gross.

Precisely! Especially during various hormonal periods...in my case, pregnancy.

[elfgivas]

we flew for thanksgiving. dh flies most weeks, nationally and internationally. last week, we didn't go through the scanners, but dh has been through several of them so far. in the scale of things to get upset about, we're choosing not to... there will always be a few folks at any job who ought not to be there, but for the most part most of the folks most of the time are doing their best to do their job without upsetting anyone.

 

(the most thorough frisking i've had was going into tel aviv last year; i definitely had nothing the frisker didn't know about, and it was not a comfortable experience, but i can so understand the concern that leads to it)

 

fwiw,

ann

[joannqn]

Another TMI:

 

I'm the same way. If I was left in a glass box for almost an hour like the breast milk lady on the wrong day of the month, I would have bled all over the box if I had any kind of wait in line before that. I can only go an hour, max, between bathroom trips on certain days of my period.