s\o on Tossing thread - If you don't do formal Science\History for lower grades..

[5LittleMonkeys]

could you explain what your science and history does look like? Or, do you not do those subjects at all? Also, if you hold off on formal studies, what grade\age do you begin formal study?

[Guest]

If I had to do it over again, which I will, I won't start history until 3rd. So much of history is a bit yucky, I see no reason to rush into it.

Science is iffy as we LOVE it! But I won't start a formal class until my youngers are reading well.

[angela in ohio]

We use mostly interest or field-trip related books, videos, etc. for science for K-5 and history for K-8. We did do units of this or that here and there. For example, one year I used Artner's Guide to read through all of the good elementary literature about U.S. History (The Cabin Faced West, Justin Morgan Had a Horse, etc.) in order with dc. Another year, we bought a pass to the Ohio Historical Society for the year, so we studied that all year as we visited the sites.

 

Instead of spending a lot of time and money on science and history, I spent it on the 3Rs. My dc became fascinated with both history and science, because they saw it as exciting and "real." They hit junior high and high school with very strong skills in reading, writing, and math, and they are able to study well the subjects they grew to love.

 

Now, my little guy is not quite as lucky. We are at home (or at music practices, rehearsals, events,) a lot of the time, because life is more demanding with the older two. I have him following along with his sisters' science and history sequence. It's different, but I think it will be okay. He's 8, and he's helping out with biology experiments and "playing" with a real telescope and microscope. It's not weekly trips to the science center or nature walks, but I think he'll be okay.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

:bigear:

[Stacy in NJ]

At least not formally. Structured science in the lower grades was frustrating and no fun for us. I'd simply do nature study, topic specific studies with library books and experiments, and outside activities/fieldtrips/museum trips.

 

I've used SOTW from the beginning and enjoyed it. That said, I wouldn't begin Ancients until either 2nd or 3rd grade. Again, I'd approach history more informally, more interest lead.

[Bayt ul-Hikmah]

We've recently thrown out formal history and science curricula for "project learning" ala the White Oak School / Camp Creek Blog. For anyone interested in doing a project-based approach, this is an amazing resource.

 

Right now, my oldest does a RightStart lesson daily and some spelling (AAS). We have lots of other resources on an open shelf for him to chose from during our morning work time. When we feel we've done a good amount of work, ds works on his projects. The best part about project learning has been that he is using all TWTM skills *in a meaningful context*! Instead of doing WWE2 daily, he does copywork, narration, and dictation from what he's reading about (and since he chose the topic - he's passionate!). The same applies to grammar, handwriting, etc. I'd highly suggest at least looking at that blog - it has been awesome for our family.

[5LittleMonkeys]

We've recently thrown out formal history and science curricula for "project learning" ala the White Oak School / Camp Creek Blog. For anyone interested in doing a project-based approach, this is an amazing resource.

 

Right now, my oldest does a RightStart lesson daily and some spelling (AAS). We have lots of other resources on an open shelf for him to chose from during our morning work time. When we feel we've done a good amount of work, ds works on his projects. The best part about project learning has been that he is using all TWTM skills *in a meaningful context*! Instead of doing WWE2 daily, he does copywork, narration, and dictation from what he's reading about (and since he chose the topic - he's passionate!). The same applies to grammar, handwriting, etc. I'd highly suggest at least looking at that blog - it has been awesome for our family.

 

Thank you for that link. I just spent a little while reading about project-based learning parts 1 and 2 and I am very intrigued. Before I started homeschooling, when I was still mulling it over, I imagined that this type of learning would be so wonderful for my dc. Especially dd11, who is a free spirit, out of the box, go against the grain type of child. I have bookmarked that site and will definitely set aside some time to read more.

[5LittleMonkeys]

We use mostly interest or field-trip related books, videos, etc. for science for K-5 and history for K-8. We did do units of this or that here and there. For example, one year I used Artner's Guide to read through all of the good elementary literature about U.S. History (The Cabin Faced West, Justin Morgan Had a Horse, etc.) in order with dc. Another year, we bought a pass to the Ohio Historical Society for the year, so we studied that all year as we visited the sites.

 

 

Now, when you say you "did units of this or that" do you mean unit studies where there is a somewhat loose plan to follow and projects to complete or do you mean that it all just happened organically and there were no finished products, ie, lapbooks, reports, etc.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

We've recently thrown out formal history and science curricula for "project learning" ala the White Oak School / Camp Creek Blog. For anyone interested in doing a project-based approach, this is an amazing resource.

 

Right now, my oldest does a RightStart lesson daily and some spelling (AAS). We have lots of other resources on an open shelf for him to chose from during our morning work time. When we feel we've done a good amount of work, ds works on his projects. The best part about project learning has been that he is using all TWTM skills *in a meaningful context*! Instead of doing WWE2 daily, he does copywork, narration, and dictation from what he's reading about (and since he chose the topic - he's passionate!). The same applies to grammar, handwriting, etc. I'd highly suggest at least looking at that blog - it has been awesome for our family.

 

bold and underline my emphasis!

 

Yep. In all my wanderings and curriculum lusting, I keep coming back to similar conclusions.. Writing must be done every day, but ds can mostly choose his copy work passage (I have some planned out). Same with narration(can't decide to do after every book or weekly or whatever)...not doing dictation yet. Lots of library books, nature study and journal and science materials on hand for discovery (mag. glass, binoculars, etc.), and a time line that we fill in as we encounter history in books and other media, holidays, whatever are doing just fine...great actually! This until they are young anyways. Formal science will probably begin in jr. high. Formal History? Not sure yet. We use this as a guideline (not to a T) http://simplycharlottemason.com/planning/scmguide/

 

We are also doing short lessons in math, reading, and writing in the younger years (at least until 8) as per Charlotte Mason. Usually 10 minutes (15 min tops). Love it! Boys stay focused and ENJOY learning the 3r's. I think the short lessons keeps them from burning out. The idea is to do your best for a short while (rather than working longer and getting sloppy lazy) and so forming habits of neatness, excellence, and attentiveness.

 

Here is a link to the free Book of Centuries (history timeline) download if you're interested. We keep a family one for now. They will have there own when they are a bit older.

 

http://simplycharlottemason.com/timesavers/book-of-centuries/

 

ETA. Oh, and we are doing a topical science curriculum with MFW. Each week we get tons of books at the library on a topic (sun, moon, color, an animal from each continent and much more) and do fun activities that go with the topic like making a sundial and raisins. The science topic is tied into a attribute of God or character trait. Dh actually does this with the kids after breakfast! So much FUN!

Edited October 27, 2010 by mommyjen

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

Oh, and we do GeoPuzzles and have World and US wall maps on the dining room wall for geography. We reference all places we come across on the maps and do some mapping by using map pins (??) on places we have lived or relatives currently live. We have pics around it of each relative/family and draw a line with dry erase marker to the corresponding map pin. We are tracing Laura Ingall's travels with dry erase marker and put animal clip art on the country it comes from. We drew a ship sailing from England to the east coast and pic. of grandma and her siblings to show her immigration. We love our wall maps! Not that you asked about geography. :tongue_smilie:

[Ellie]

We use mostly interest or field-trip related books, videos, etc. for science for K-5 and history for K-8. We did do units of this or that here and there. For example, one year I used Artner's Guide to read through all of the good elementary literature about U.S. History (The Cabin Faced West, Justin Morgan Had a Horse, etc.) in order with dc. Another year, we bought a pass to the Ohio Historical Society for the year, so we studied that all year as we visited the sites.

 

Instead of spending a lot of time and money on science and history, I spent it on the 3Rs. My dc became fascinated with both history and science, because they saw it as exciting and "real." They hit junior high and high school with very strong skills in reading, writing, and math, and they are able to study well the subjects they grew to love.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Chris in VA]

We've always done history, but science has been touch and go.

We live on 40 acres of church land in the middle of suburban Northern VA. Dd spends lots of time outside, made herself a nature study kit, loves science, and would dearly love to do more--now she's in ps and doing science 2x a week, but it's awful.

She said just yesterday, I'd better get outside! After all, I AM Nature Girl!" :D

 

There's more to science than nature study, but she'll have a chance to go deeper and broader next year. For now, she's ok. She's learning to ask questions, observe closely, note changes--and she's experimenting with things like a homemade pulley she rigged up between her treehouse and her bedroom window.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Oh, and we do GeoPuzzles and have World and US wall maps on the dining room wall for geography. We reference all places we come across on the maps and do some mapping by using map pins (??) on places we have lived or relatives currently live. We have pics around it of each relative/family and draw a line with dry erase marker to the corresponding map pin. We are tracing Laura Ingall's travels with dry erase marker and put animal clip art on the country it comes from. We drew a ship sailing from England to the east coast and pic. of grandma and her siblings to show her immigration. We love our wall maps! Not that you asked about geography. :tongue_smilie:

 

I didn't, but you must have read my mind because I was just talking to dh about doing geography after the new year and wondering how I could do it without using a curriculum. Those are great ideas...thanks!

[Moniksca]

We do lapbooks for science, my ds gets to choose the topic and I go about finding free lapbooks online and using the library for our books. I bought a program to use this year for chemistry but since we found some great rocks during our camping trip we did a rock and minerals lapbook and my ds chose to study space afterwards. They learn so much better when the choose what they are able to study. We spent the entire second grade on dinosaurs. We do the same thing for history, however, this year is our first year with SOTW2. We're loving it all.

[5LittleMonkeys]

We do lapbooks for science, my ds gets to choose the topic and I go about finding free lapbooks online and using the library for our books.

 

Dd7 and dd11 did lapbooks at the end of last year when NOEO didn't work out for us. They really did enjoy doing them. I need to look at doing some of those again. Thanks for reminding me.

[mommama]

I'm planning to wait until my children are reading fluently to introduce anything formal besides reading instruction, math and basic critical thinking skills. That being said, I'm a complete science geek, so we do experiments ("ooh, look at that", no instruction at all, just answering any questions), watch a lot of science shows, and go on a lot of science outings. My partner is a complete history geek, so the same sort of exposure is happening there too.

[stripe]

I don't have much to add here, but I leave interesting books around for my kids to look at. My son remembers in great detail what he's read himself about topics of interest.

[TracyP]

We have been doing interest led science so far this year. Every 3 weeks I ask the kids (5 & 7)what they want to learn about next. Then I go to the library website and pick 4-6 books about that topic for each of them. They love it!

 

We are going to start Apologia Astronomy today because they asked to learn about "the moon and stars". I thought it might be good to have a little more structure around science but this thread makes me wonder. It is very hard (for me) to think this is enough. We will give Astronomy a try but then I think we will go back to what we have been doing.

[Dmmetler]

My DD does a Mad Science class every other week, and we also do zoo and botanic gardens classes. Beyond that, if she's interested in a topic, we get books and follow up, but don't do any sort of formal curriculum. I bought AIMS this year, but just couldn't make it work.

 

History...well, we're doing Sonlight for literature, and she loves CHOW, but that's usually where it ends unless a topic catches her interest. Right now, we've put CHOW to the back burner because we went to the American Girl store and she fell in love with Kaya, so we're studying the Nez Pierce tribe (and I've found nice unit studies on the Dine and the Iroquois, too). We currently have a stuffed pegasus pulling a travois made out of plastic tubes and duct tape, loaded with various animals from her old Fisher Price sets that she thought would be good to hunt.

[JennW in SoCal]

could you explain what your science and history does look like? Or, do you not do those subjects at all? Also, if you hold off on formal studies, what grade\age do you begin formal study?

 

Science and history -- and literature for that matter -- were always a combination of interest-led and mommy led projects and studies. If a topic really captured someone's interest, then we'd go deep on that topic until the interest waned.

 

For history we simply had stacks and stacks of books that I read aloud for most of the elementary years. We traveled, visited museums, watched interesting documentaries, listened to as many Jim Weiss stories as possible. In the earliest years we simply read lots of mythology, looked at maps, had fun with those Top Secret and Which Way USA kits from the folks at Highlights. My boys built elaborate lego Egyptian scenes for fun, we did art projects I found in library or purchased books.

 

I got more formal by about 5th grade meaning I planned what was to be covered, assigning written summaries and map work. It evolved into combined literature/history courses in high school, much as is described in the rhetoric section of the WTM. Never did use a text book or pre-packaged program.

 

For science we did nature studies, read more books, did many projects -- some I researched on the internet and put together myself, others were purchased kits. We watched every science documentary ever made, went to astronomy club nights to look through telescopes, went on science field trips, and read more books. I did NO formal science until high school, and my boys both did fine. My youngest last year handled an AP level biology course with no problem.

 

An excellent source for nature studies is Cornell University's Project Feeder Watch. You and your kids can be "citizen scientists" and send in weekly counts of the birds in your yard, or you can get some wonderful project ideas for homeschoolers from their site.

 

As someone else posted, I incorporated all the WTM writing exercises through our history and science reading. Copy work and narrations and eventually essays and research papers all sprang from whatever they were reading and studying. It was much more meaningful than fill in the blank comprehension questions in a text book. I have no regrets from this approach and would do it the same again if I had young'uns.

[Poke Salad Annie]

I don't have much to add here, but I leave interesting books around for my kids to look at. My son remembers in great detail what he's read himself about topics of interest.

 

This seems to work great around here, too. I am finding that there is also better retention and more enjoyment, and it sparks the interest for inquisitive activities. I also agree with Angela in Ohio about focusing on the 3R's during the grammar school years. I believe that mastering those skills is imperative before moving on to higher grades.

[abrightmom]

We've recently thrown out formal history and science curricula for "project learning" ala the White Oak School / Camp Creek Blog. For anyone interested in doing a project-based approach, this is an amazing resource.

 

Right now, my oldest does a RightStart lesson daily and some spelling (AAS). We have lots of other resources on an open shelf for him to chose from during our morning work time. When we feel we've done a good amount of work, ds works on his projects. The best part about project learning has been that he is using all TWTM skills *in a meaningful context*! Instead of doing WWE2 daily, he does copywork, narration, and dictation from what he's reading about (and since he chose the topic - he's passionate!). The same applies to grammar, handwriting, etc. I'd highly suggest at least looking at that blog - it has been awesome for our family.

Kate,

 

This is a fascinating approach! Will you share some of the specifics of what you are doing? I will need to spend some time reading through the material on the site you referenced as it looks wonderful.

 

What kinds of resources do you have on your open shelf? How does that play out day to day? How is your child using WTM skills within this project approach? How do you go about "doing" a project?

 

I have a lot to learn . . . :001_smile:

[Bayt ul-Hikmah]

This is a fascinating approach! Will you share some of the specifics of what you are doing? I will need to spend some time reading through the material on the site you referenced as it looks wonderful.

 

What kinds of resources do you have on your open shelf? How does that play out day to day? How is your child using WTM skills within this project approach? How do you go about "doing" a project?

 

 

First, let me say that we're still a bit in transition and figuring out what works for us and what doesn't.

 

We start our days with dawn prayers, farm chores, and breakfast. After that stuff, Yusuf (nearly 7) pulls out either math or spelling. Right Start and All About Spelling are the programs that I just love, work great for ds, and give us a lot of bang for the time we invest in them. I tend to be a perfectionist and a worrier when it comes to homeschooling (I have to fight myself not to fall into curriculum shopping, and I tend to want to do too much). Having the requirements of math and spelling (which reinforces phonics, reading, writing, etc) done allow me to relax for the rest of the day.

 

As for the shelf work that follows, we have other curricula available (Math Mammoth workbooks, HWT, Tin Man Press logic), Mad Libs, Arabic resources (his "primer", handwriting, etc), as well as spines to browse (Usborne's Encyclopedia of World History and Usborne's First Encyclopedia of Our World, at the moment). On another shelf we have all sorts of good for the brain games and toys (Snap Circuits, Hoppers, Rush Hour, mancala, chess, maze books, puzzles, etc). We have a big cupboard full of art supplies too, which includes his knitting, sewing, and weaving projects. This shelf work ideally would have things rotating in and out. I'd like to incorporate our microscope into this area. There are so many possibilities.

 

After we've worked hard for awhile (usually a couple hours, but my kids tend to have unusually long attention spans), we break out the project work. I encouraged Yusuf to think about having a science-ish and/or history-ish project going. After spending time looking through science spines and our bookshelves, he picked "jungles" for his first project. We have since changed this to tropical rain forests, as that is more accurate/specific word. We each have a project journal. In mine, I record questions he asks. For example, we have a big puzzle called Jungle Animals, and it has a tiger pictured on it. He said, I didn't know tigers lived in the jungle! I though jaguars were the biggest predator in the jungle, but if tigers live in the jungle, then that isn't true!" He was just talking, but I wrote it down as something to pursue.

 

After we picked a topic, we pulled our resources we had at home on the topic at hand. Then, we went to the library. I showed him how to use the card catalog and find books by call number. He looked through every. single. book. on the shelf about tropical rain forests, and picked out the ones that he liked best. Some he picked for the pictures, some he picked because of the content (we read the tables of contents), and some he picked because he could read them himself.

 

During project time, Yusuf looks through the resources at hand, reads what he can, and puts a post-it on things he wants to read together. That way, I'm not reading though piles and piles of books on the same topic lol. When one of us is reading, Yusuf takes notes (in complete sentences) in his project journal. He writes down the things he doesn't know, answers to questions he has had, etc.

 

Sometimes he will copy a sentence exactly (putting it in quotes). Other times we will read a paragraph, and he will narrate a sentence that he wants to write down. It's everything we learned in WWE (we were in the middle of WWE2 before we switched to projects), but in a meaningful context. Not only is it meaningful to ds, but instead of groaning over writing one WWE sentence, ds writes *pages* daily about "his" rainforests. Awesome.

 

Once we have accumulated a certain amount of information, he likes to "show off" his learning - to teach others. He found a book at the library full of rainforest activities for ages 6-8 (perfect!) which has provided some ideas. He is figuring out to build a model of the layers of the rain forest so he can add pictures or models of the animals in the appropriate layers. I try to stay completely out of it and let him work out his ideas himself, to give him true ownership.

 

We're still learning how to manage all this, but so far it has been wonderful!

 

This has gotten long and rambling, but I hope at least some of it has been helpful.

[TracyP]

Wow, Kate! I love the specifics and the ideas. Thank you!

[Bayt ul-Hikmah]

You're welcome! (Forgive all the typos, yikes!)

 

I should mention that we also have "basket time." We used to do this first thing after breakfast, but now we tend to do it after lunch before rest time. The boys and I spend anywhere from 30-90 minutes smooshed in my big reading chair, reading aloud to each other. We got this idea from the Wildflowers and Marbles blog, here. I tend to read stories of the prophets, Quran, seasonal picture books, poetry, SOTW, and Ambleside Online Year One books. Yusuf reads I See Sam readers and early readers from the library (Commander Toad, Cam Jansen, Billy and Blaze, Nate the Great, etc). My little guy usually wants to read an I See Sam or BOB book. We also review our memory work (Quran and poetry). It's great cuddle time and transition into rest/nap time.

[angela in ohio]

Now, when you say you "did units of this or that" do you mean unit studies where there is a somewhat loose plan to follow and projects to complete or do you mean that it all just happened organically and there were no finished products, ie, lapbooks, reports, etc.

 

No, no unit studies here, as I believe in a logical progression of math and language skills.

 

By unit, I mean that we had an orderly progression, more or less, through a topic that I chose. U.S. History was more chronological, and Ohio history more topic-based (depending on where we were visiting.)

 

There were no finished projects, really, except those that happened at their own hands. For example, my girls decided to make corn husk dolls at some point in the U.S. History year. One exception, I guess, would be that I did choose IEW assignments from the topics we happened to be on at the time, or the topics they were interested in at the time.

 

We never really even categorized any studies outside of the 3Rs, so there was no "history" or "science," there was just language arts, math, and everything else. So we learned about music, art, science, technology, history, current events, geography, etc. Each year, I tried to nail down a curriculum list like normal people :lol: and each year it lasted about a week, then we'd be back to happily winging it. :D

 

Some of the topics were more group topics, and then they always each had their own things going. My oldest, for example, went through a rock phase (strating at about age 3,) then birds, then horses, then space, then on and on.... and now she is in technology and music. I can't even remember all of them. :D In among that, we were also studying things together.

 

Lest anyone think this is even remotely unschooly, remember that the whole time I was bashing them over the head with hours a day of reading, writing, and math. ;) That was my motivation for relaxing other things; I wanted to protect that time to spend teaching them strong basic skills.

Edited October 27, 2010 by angela in ohio

[*Jessica*]

First, let me say that we're still a bit in transition and figuring out what works for us and what doesn't.

 

We start our days with dawn prayers, farm chores, and breakfast. After that stuff, Yusuf (nearly 7) pulls out either math or spelling. Right Start and All About Spelling are the programs that I just love, work great for ds, and give us a lot of bang for the time we invest in them. I tend to be a perfectionist and a worrier when it comes to homeschooling (I have to fight myself not to fall into curriculum shopping, and I tend to want to do too much). Having the requirements of math and spelling (which reinforces phonics, reading, writing, etc) done allow me to relax for the rest of the day.

 

As for the shelf work that follows, we have other curricula available (Math Mammoth workbooks, HWT, Tin Man Press logic), Mad Libs, Arabic resources (his "primer", handwriting, etc), as well as spines to browse (Usborne's Encyclopedia of World History and Usborne's First Encyclopedia of Our World, at the moment). On another shelf we have all sorts of good for the brain games and toys (Snap Circuits, Hoppers, Rush Hour, mancala, chess, maze books, puzzles, etc). We have a big cupboard full of art supplies too, which includes his knitting, sewing, and weaving projects. This shelf work ideally would have things rotating in and out. I'd like to incorporate our microscope into this area. There are so many possibilities.

 

After we've worked hard for awhile (usually a couple hours, but my kids tend to have unusually long attention spans), we break out the project work. I encouraged Yusuf to think about having a science-ish and/or history-ish project going. After spending time looking through science spines and our bookshelves, he picked "jungles" for his first project. We have since changed this to tropical rain forests, as that is more accurate/specific word. We each have a project journal. In mine, I record questions he asks. For example, we have a big puzzle called Jungle Animals, and it has a tiger pictured on it. He said, I didn't know tigers lived in the jungle! I though jaguars were the biggest predator in the jungle, but if tigers live in the jungle, then that isn't true!" He was just talking, but I wrote it down as something to pursue.

 

After we picked a topic, we pulled our resources we had at home on the topic at hand. Then, we went to the library. I showed him how to use the card catalog and find books by call number. He looked through every. single. book. on the shelf about tropical rain forests, and picked out the ones that he liked best. Some he picked for the pictures, some he picked because of the content (we read the tables of contents), and some he picked because he could read them himself.

 

During project time, Yusuf looks through the resources at hand, reads what he can, and puts a post-it on things he wants to read together. That way, I'm not reading though piles and piles of books on the same topic lol. When one of us is reading, Yusuf takes notes (in complete sentences) in his project journal. He writes down the things he doesn't know, answers to questions he has had, etc.

 

Sometimes he will copy a sentence exactly (putting it in quotes). Other times we will read a paragraph, and he will narrate a sentence that he wants to write down. It's everything we learned in WWE (we were in the middle of WWE2 before we switched to projects), but in a meaningful context. Not only is it meaningful to ds, but instead of groaning over writing one WWE sentence, ds writes *pages* daily about "his" rainforests. Awesome.

 

Once we have accumulated a certain amount of information, he likes to "show off" his learning - to teach others. He found a book at the library full of rainforest activities for ages 6-8 (perfect!) which has provided some ideas. He is figuring out to build a model of the layers of the rain forest so he can add pictures or models of the animals in the appropriate layers. I try to stay completely out of it and let him work out his ideas himself, to give him true ownership.

 

We're still learning how to manage all this, but so far it has been wonderful!

 

This has gotten long and rambling, but I hope at least some of it has been helpful.

THIS is what I want out of homeschooling! I just talked to Nik and he is totally agreeable to starting a morning basket and trying what you posted above. I'm sure it will take some major balancing, and I'll have what I've already planned for the year to fall back on if it doesn't work, but I'm going to try really hard to make it work. Thank you for posting these details!

[abrightmom]

As for the shelf work that follows, we have other curricula available (Math Mammoth workbooks, HWT, Tin Man Press logic), Mad Libs, Arabic resources (his "primer", handwriting, etc), as well as spines to browse (Usborne's Encyclopedia of World History and Usborne's First Encyclopedia of Our World, at the moment). On another shelf we have all sorts of good for the brain games and toys (Snap Circuits, Hoppers, Rush Hour, mancala, chess, maze books, puzzles, etc). We have a big cupboard full of art supplies too, which includes his knitting, sewing, and weaving projects. This shelf work ideally would have things rotating in and out. I'd like to incorporate our microscope into this area. There are so many possibilities.

 

After we've worked hard for awhile (usually a couple hours, but my kids tend to have unusually long attention spans), we break out the project work. I encouraged Yusuf to think about having a science-ish and/or history-ish project going. . . . I hope at least some of it has been helpful.

Kate,

 

:001_smile: The entire post was SO helpful . . . wow. THIS is inspiring and worth pondering and learning more about!!

 

When it comes to your shelf work how is this played out? I see my children as preferring to run off and play Legos. :D Do you simply require a certain amount of "shelf work" to be done (a time frame) or do you direct this?

Knitting, sewing and weaving projects????? This sounds wonderful. Where does a Mom begin to know how to teach a child these things . . . what to start with . . .everything? Can you help here? I can sew a little but really have no idea what to begin with or how to give my children "projects" that can be in a basket for "school time".

 

I am bursting with questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mbw0817]

8filltheheart started a great thread about this earlier this year:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173293&highlight=teatime

 

My only concern would be making sure my child was exposed to a wide variety of topics. Otherwise, he would have no idea whether he cares about a particular subject like Ancient China. So, in that sense, I can see a curriculum like SOTW being a great resource, even if it means just reading a section before quiet time.

[angela in ohio]

8filltheheart started a great thread about this earlier this year:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173293&highlight=teatime

 

My only concern would be making sure my child was exposed to a wide variety of topics. Otherwise, he would have no idea whether he cares about a particular subject like Ancient China. So, in that sense, I can see a curriculum like SOTW being a great resource, even if it means just reading a section before quiet time.

 

That can happen very naturally. We travel, we go to field trips, we watch videos about people and places and scientific discoveries, we read... You can introduce a huge variety of topcis just by modeling curiosity and wonder in life.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Kate and Angela thank you for giving so much detail about your day. And thanks to all of you for responding. Your days sound like what I thought ours would be like when we started homeschooling. Diligent work on the 3 r's in the mornings and afternoons spent pursuing own interests\projects (hopefully some within the scope of science and history). Two of my dds always have projects that they want to pursue but we never seem to have enough time. I know dh would be happy to do things this way. He has told me before that the little ones don't need formal science and history and that the two in logic stage should study more on a interest led basis at least until high school. He also does NOT want me to purchase a writing curriculum (I would love to try Classical Writing though). He doesn't have a problem with WWE but beyond that he feels they should just write about things they have read and watched and eventually as their skills in grammar, vocab and spelling increase, and as they are exposed to more and more literature, biographies, non-fiction, etc., they will begin to use those learned skills and mimic the writing that they have been exposed to. Anyway...that's off topic.

 

I love the idea of project-based learning; I feel it would be more natural, and I think my dc would thrive using this method. Then why am I so apprehensive to try it? I think part of it is that if I don't have a plan then I'm afraid it won't get done. There are days now, even with a curriculum plan that science and history don't get done. With 5 dc, we just run out of time or run out of steam. I suppose I won't know until I try though!

 

You all have given me lots to think about. My head is spinning with ideas and I'm not quite sure how to start. I need a plan for how to proceed without a plan.:lol::tongue_smilie:

[Bayt ul-Hikmah]

Kate,

 

:001_smile: The entire post was SO helpful . . . wow. THIS is inspiring and worth pondering and learning more about!!

 

I'm so glad it was helpful. I tend to ramble lol.

 

When it comes to your shelf work how is this played out? I see my children as preferring to run off and play Legos. :D Do you simply require a certain amount of "shelf work" to be done (a time frame) or do you direct this?

 

I'm still figuring this one out, as I'm not sure how much distraction I'm okay with. Or maybe it's more like, I'm not sure *what* I consider distraction.

 

Like today, Yusuf dug out some little plastic prehistoric animals from when we studied them last year. I wasn't sure if that was going to be play or learning or both. I let him go with it for awhile, and he managed to self-direct back to the more usual shelf work choices.

 

Part of the difficulty is that his little brother (newly 4) tends to want to draw him into playing with him. I need to work on that to allow the older one to work better. Otherwise, it's all about Lego and Playmobil and Zoobs (which really aren't bad choices, but are outside of school work in our house).

 

So, I tend to do it by time. It's not a set length though. If he has done exceptional work and asks to move on, I say sure. If he hasn't done much, we look around for something that grabs his attention and interest. With him, that isn't hard, thankfully.

 

Also, I try to be around working on my own stuff (Arabic language, Quran memorization, naturalist training work, grad school applications, etc). The modeling helps, and if I'm working he tends to be more self-directed.

Knitting, sewing and weaving projects????? This sounds wonderful. Where does a Mom begin to know how to teach a child these things . . . what to start with . . .everything? Can you help here?

 

For knitting, I'd recommend searching YouTube for finger knitting videos. It's an easy way to start, and kids can do great things with the "worms" (as I call them) that they make. As for sewing, I'd recommend My First Sewing Book: Hand Sewing and the others in that series by Winky Cherry. They're simple but provide a good progression of skills, from hand sewing into machine sewing (we're not there yet though!). As for weaving, we've just done the pot-holder weaving and getting creative with all those squares that result! My ds loves patterns and colors, so he loves working with that. I'd love a small loom someday, it's somewhere on the list lol.

 

I am bursting with questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm glad to help as much as I can! :)

[abrightmom]

:grouphug: I LOVE this thread . . .

 

Kate, thank-you for all that you've shared. It IS very helpful. We have the same challenges in our house (sweet little brother wanting to play with big brother). My boys love Legos, Playmobil and Zoob as well!! :001_smile:

 

I wonder if this kind of an approach could come in seasons . . . some part of the year spent in Mom/Teacher directed learning and some part of the year spent in project oriented learning.

 

There is much to ponder here . . . just when I thought I was getting somewhere in figuring all of this stuff out . . . the possibilities are ENDLESS!!

[lakotajm]

We are also doing short lessons in math, reading, and writing in the younger years (at least until 8) as per Charlotte Mason. Usually 10 minutes (15 min tops). Love it! Boys stay focused and ENJOY learning the 3r's. I think the short lessons keeps them from burning out. The idea is to do your best for a short while (rather than working longer and getting sloppy lazy) and so forming habits of neatness, excellence, and attentiveness.

 

 

 

I am trying to do this, especially with my stubborn younger dds who did not like being made to do school last year. Here's a problem, though...What do you do if you have children who are highly self-critical, and if they don't get everything right, they fixate on it and make it difficult for you to move on? Like dd7 just had her first lesson with Phonetic Zoo. Granted, it is a bit advanced, but she wants to be in the spelling bee. So I am slowing it down, explaining it well, being cheerful, keeping it short, etc. She just got mad for making a few tiny errors and now will not come out of her room until she can spell everything! And I mean everything-the lotion bottle, nail polish words, etc. I haven't even gotten to do math with her yet! So much for short lessons!:glare:

 

A little off track, but somewhat related, as it involves taking a low-key approach in the early years, which is what I am trying to do.

 

Lakota

[lovinmomma]

Kate and Angela thank you for giving so much detail about your day. And thanks to all of you for responding. Your days sound like what I thought ours would be like when we started homeschooling. Diligent work on the 3 r's in the mornings and afternoons spent pursuing own interests\projects (hopefully some within the scope of science and history). Two of my dds always have projects that they want to pursue but we never seem to have enough time. I know dh would be happy to do things this way. He has told me before that the little ones don't need formal science and history and that the two in logic stage should study more on a interest led basis at least until high school. He also does NOT want me to purchase a writing curriculum (I would love to try Classical Writing though). He doesn't have a problem with WWE but beyond that he feels they should just write about things they have read and watched and eventually as their skills in grammar, vocab and spelling increase, and as they are exposed to more and more literature, biographies, non-fiction, etc., they will begin to use those learned skills and mimic the writing that they have been exposed to. Anyway...that's off topic.

 

I love the idea of project-based learning; I feel it would be more natural, and I think my dc would thrive using this method. Then why am I so apprehensive to try it? I think part of it is that if I don't have a plan then I'm afraid it won't get done. There are days now, even with a curriculum plan that science and history don't get done. With 5 dc, we just run out of time or run out of steam. I suppose I won't know until I try though!

 

You all have given me lots to think about. My head is spinning with ideas and I'm not quite sure how to start. I need a plan for how to proceed without a plan.:lol::tongue_smilie:

 

I feel like you just wrote my post for me! My DH keeps telling me the exact same things! LOL The bolded part above is what freaks me out, too!

[lovinmomma]

I need a plan for how to proceed without a plan.:lol::tongue_smilie:

I forgot 1 part... :iagree: This is definately me.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

I didn't, but you must have read my mind because I was just talking to dh about doing geography after the new year and wondering how I could do it without using a curriculum. Those are great ideas...thanks!

 

We will be doing mapping as well (described below). Starting with just labeling the 7 continents (which they knew before they could write!) These will go in their geography notebooks. I'd like to add some culture studies (documentaries, movies, books, recipes) when we get to specific continents/countries. I've already been saving postcards from EVERYWHERE we go (even neighboring towns) for them to put in their geo. notebooks. I'll be asking relatives/friends to send the boys each a postcard from where they live to put in their notebook or for those who would choose to from their travels. Also, I want them to start some narrations (that I record for them on Startwrite...I cheat!) for field trips, family trips, etc. for their notebooks. Kind of a journal with pics. of our adventures as well as mapping stuff, plus all geo. related copy work can go in there. Hope that makes sense of some sort!

 

 

 

Just as history is the study of people in time, geography is the study of people in places. Charlotte advocated learning about people in their surroundings, not just dry facts about locations, exports, and weather descriptions. Many living books teach geography. You can also simply locate on a map or globe the geographical setting of any of the living books you read together in any subject.

 

In addition, Charlotte planned for a ten-minute map drill session once per week. We do map drill like this: Give each child a blank map of the region you are studying and provide a detailed and labeled map of the same region. Instruct the child to label a few areas of the region, being careful to copy the names correctly from the detailed map. The next week, give the child another blank map of the same region and instruct her to label as many areas as she can remember. Once she has labeled all that she knows, display the detailed map and check for accuracy, then have her label a few more areas carefully. Continue this routine each week, and over the course of the year she will become quite familiar with the regions studied using this gentle method.

 

http://simplycharlottemason.com/basics/started/charlotte-mason-method/

Edited October 27, 2010 by mommyjen

[snickelfritz]

I looked at the website on project learning and talked with dd when I tucked her in. We talked about what she would like to learn about.

 

She immediately said sewing, knitting, crocheting. :)

 

We work hard on our basics. She spends an hour on math (some of that is RS games and such), but I've been regretting that she doesn't have more time to do some things that are interesting to her.

 

So, I'm contemplating how this would work.

[eternalknot]

Science for the younger grades is super casual here. We watch Discovery Channel; Mythbusters; the occasional other DVD or IMAX movie. We have two ponds and an indoor aquarium. We do some gardnening. It's pretty much just whatever if going on in our life at that point in time. One year I was pregnant so we did an anatomy/biology thing. Mostly projects and a container of relevant books by the sofa.

 

On our weekly trip to the library I ask the kids to get one science-related book, whatever strikes their individual fancies. One kid is a space nut; the other is a body freak. We just read, watch, discuss.

 

This year my eldest is doing 4th grade, and he asked for a more formal science program. I procrastinated, and haven't gotten around to finding one yet BUT in the meanwhile I threw some experiment-type books at him (Janice Van Cleave, and others) and let him loose. I spent a few weeks going over the scientific method with him, and we decided he'd pick 1-2 experiments per month to do on his own and write up a report or posterboard for. He has to get his materials list to me by the first of the month so I can purchase or find any materials he needs. He had asked for a telescope, microscope, film, and other misc science-y stuff for his birthday the year before. I gave him $50 at the Container Store to buy little containers and such, plus a few spiral notebooks to record his stuff. I figure we'll do this for the rest of 4th grade, and then next year for 5th I'll have something more formal for him if he still wants it. Otherwise I'll hold off until 6th grade/middle school and just start it then.

[5LittleMonkeys]

We will be doing mapping as well (described below). Starting with just labeling the 7 continents (which they knew before they could write!) These will go in their geography notebooks. I'd like to add some culture studies (documentaries, movies, books, recipes) when we get to specific continents/countries. I've already been saving postcards from EVERYWHERE we go (even neighboring towns) for them to put in their geo. notebooks. I'll be asking relatives/friends to send the boys each a postcard from where they live to put in their notebook or for those who would choose to from their travels. Also, I want them to start some narrations (that I record for them on Startwrite...I cheat!) for field trips, family trips, etc. for their notebooks. Kind of a journal with pics. of our adventures as well as mapping stuff, plus all geo. related copy work can go in there. Hope that makes sense of some sort!

 

http://simplycharlottemason.com/basics/started/charlotte-mason-method/

Thank you...you know I now remember reading this about a year ago. Hmm..wonder what happened to my plans?

I forgot 1 part... :iagree: This is definately me.

Glad to know I'm not alone.

 

 

She immediately said sewing, knitting, crocheting. :)

 

We work hard on our basics. She spends an hour on math (some of that is RS games and such), but I've been regretting that she doesn't have more time to do some things that are interesting to her.

 

So, I'm contemplating how this would work.

Must be a 2nd grader thing. My dd wanted to do sewing and crocheting too.:tongue_smilie: I know what you mean about regretting not having more time for their own interests. I just sat down and tore apart dd7's schedule. I managed to carve out 30 minutes for read alouds and rearranged things so she is finished by noon. After lunch she will have time to pursue her own projects. She said she still wanted to do SOTW but not everyday so we scheduled Tuesday afternoons for SOTW reading, narration and project. Once I let go of feeling like I had to do it on a schedule (get it done by the end of the year) I feel so much more relaxed about it. For history she already has made a list of things she wants to learn about. More about Greek Mythology, King Arthur\Merlin\Queen Mab, Kings and Queens of England\specifically Queen Elizabeth, she wants to learn about Sacajawea and Teddy Roosevelt (Night at the Museum sparked that)she has about 5 other things listed too. She said to me, "You mean I get to pick what I learn about!?" She is excited to say the least.

 

Science for the younger grades is super casual here. We watch Discovery Channel; Mythbusters; the occasional other DVD or IMAX movie. We have two ponds and an indoor aquarium. We do some gardnening. It's pretty much just whatever if going on in our life at that point in time. One year I was pregnant so we did an anatomy/biology thing. Mostly projects and a container of relevant books by the sofa. This sounds good. Dd7 isn't big into science. She did mention wanting to plant a flower garden. She did a plant lapbook last year and wants to add to it.

 

On our weekly trip to the library I ask the kids to get one science-related book, whatever strikes their individual fancies.

 

Otherwise I'll hold off until 6th grade/middle school and just start it then.

Dh wants to hold off until 7th. I'm feeling better about that after reading through this thread and the one that this one is a spin off of.

[bry's-gal]

:lurk5: I'm enjoying this thread and all the ideas popping around! You guys got my brain spinning!

[lovinmomma]

:lurk5: I'm enjoying this thread and all the ideas popping around! You guys got my brain spinning!

 

Me, too! :lurk5:

[lovinmomma]

I thought I would share some living books lists for science:

 

http://appliejuice.wordpress.com/brain-suff/living-book-list-for-science/

 

http://www.redshift.com/~bonajo/sciencebooks.htm

 

With those books you could use these free weblinks and videos on this website:

 

http://www.livinglearningbooks.com/newllb/topics.php

[5LittleMonkeys]

I thought I would share some living books lists for science:

 

http://appliejuice.wordpress.com/brain-suff/living-book-list-for-science/

 

http://www.redshift.com/~bonajo/sciencebooks.htm

 

With those books you could use these free weblinks and videos on this website:

 

http://www.livinglearningbooks.com/newllb/topics.php

 

Thank you so much! I have lists and lists of living history books but none for science. These are great!

[lovinmomma]

http://www.redshift.com/~bonajo/sciencebooks.htm

 

 

The one above has history, too, if you look at the top header.

 

This series is absolutely BEAUTIFUL for young kids. I even enjoyed it. Some of the books in the series are only $4.95 PLUS they are on the 4 for 3 deal. So, I ordered 8 different titles and so I got free shipping. 8 of them only cost me $29.70 including shipping. Check your library, though.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1568992580/ref=oss_product

[sagira]

I thought I would share some living books lists for science:

 

http://appliejuice.wordpress.com/brain-suff/living-book-list-for-science/

 

 

 

Oooh.. I needed a new link for living books in science, thanks!

 

Even though we do History and Science more formally, we use SOTW and BFSU, which I think both leave room for wonder, exploration, and small steps in presenting the material.

[lovinmomma]

Thank you so much! I have lists and lists of living history books but none for science. These are great!

You're welcome. :grouphug:

[thowell]

So what are good things to stock your shelves with to get project based learning started?

[ChandlerMom]

Since kindie, DD has LOVED all things science and history. In history, I follow chronologically thru middle ages and then loop back. Both DDs dislike scary stuff, but the ancients aren't as "real" as modern history's atrocities and gives them context. I keep it fun and lighter -- they love the stories and picture books -- rather than lots of writing or analysis.

 

For science, I plan to keep looping thru the biological and physical sciences and hold off on chem until both DDs are old enough. I did get a microscope and slide set and they love to look at all sorts of stuff. Again, mainly broad strokes and then go in depth in anything that sparks an interest. Great subject to discuss how you would find out more on something of interest, plus discussion of how it relates to things they know already. Science is all about systematic exploration of their world, so I couldn't imagine keeping my kids from it, but it doesn't have to be tons of prep or experiments, either! Lot of experiments we use as crafts, too.

[LittleIzumi]

We actually have a science spine, but it's picked by dd and we grab library books (jr non-fic for the science, easy readers for dd's reading comprehension & fluency/phonics, and picture/story books that relate). Then I look for any relevant experiments & DVDs. Dd is getting a Brock Magiscope for Christmas to help, too. Oh, and some nature walks/nature journal to draw in. For history we just read maybe twice a week from the AO history rec's for now, and use our globe to find places we read about in our regular studies. We also sign the words we know when I read some of our science books aloud, for our ASL practice tied into dd's science spine. We will probably move to some of the Usborne type encyclopedias for history next year, and then try SOTW.