Lying in front of your child

[sacgw]

This evening as my son and I were leaving the grocery store and entering our vehicle, I was approached by a woman for money. This is the third time I have seen this woman around town, and the second time she has asked me for money. Both times she had the same story. The first time she approached me, I was with my youngest daughter, and she came at me with a hoody over her head and in the late evening. She looked homeless, and very messed up. The second time I saw her she was in the E.R. waiting room, but she did not approach me for money.

 

Tonight when she approached me, I saw her husband standing by their truck with groceries in hand. She had a cigarette in her mouth and asked for money because they were out of gas and needed to get home. Things are very tight for us, and if I felt she was truly in need I would have given her whatever I had, knowing that God would provide for us. However, seeing that cigarette in hand and hearing the same exact story, all I could think of was that she was taking money that I needed to feed my children. Now, as I write this I should have told her I needed what we had to feed my kids but at the time I just said I didn't have any cash. My son was there and I knew he probably knew I had some cash, so as soon as we backed out I told him I was wrong in lying. That this woman had approached me before and that she was not really in need. Oh, as I drove out of the lot, she and her husband drove away.

 

My ds is 8.5yrs old and he has been lying a lot lately. I have been stressing to him that it breaks our trust every time he lies. I feel like I just set us back by doing this today. I don't know how to remedy this. What do you do when someone approaches you for money that you feel really isn't in need but is just scamming/using you? Now what do I do with my son? I am supposed to be the example and in his eyes I have just told him that lying is ok when it suits us.:confused:

[Jana]

When confronted by people asking for money my response is always, "Not today."

 

But the bigger issue is your son. When I make mistakes like that, I acknowledge it to my kids and ask their forgiveness. I would talk to my son about how useful lying can be to avoid conflicts, but also the problems it can create. What a great opportunity to teach him that it's ok to make a mistake, and we all are working to keep our integrity.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

When asked for money in situations like that I just say NO. No explanation necessary.....just no.

[Mama Geek]

I think you did the right thing in admitting you were wrong to your son.

 

Many times I will give someone something, unless I am sure that I am being scammed. There is no need to explain to anyone why you won't give them money. Just say no, not today.

[Peela]

It's a rare, rare person who never, never lies. Lying can be done for good reasons, too- to protect someone. It can also be done by omission. Most people lie to themselves- often unconsciously. I mean- how many of us are really honest with ourselves on all levels all the time? Its not black and white.

Most kids do understand these subtleties by a certain age.

In that case, however, I probably woudl feel the same as you...uncomfortable about lying in front of my kid who I was trying to teach not to lie.(It wouldn't bother me unless I was going through one of those "stages" with my kids of reinforcing telling the truth). It could have been an opportunity to model to him being straight....just by saying no, not today, or just No. And then talking about why I wouldnt give money. (By the way, I wouldnt feel guilty- maybe you did, which is why you lied in the first place? YOu have a right to take care of your family first!)

However...I am generally very straight with my kids and would have explained similar to what you did...including that perhaps I could have handled it differently and how- to help him learn. So...teaching him that you are still learning, too, and not perfect.

I have never felt like I was a perfect model for my kids so I have never put moral absolutes on them like "never lie" because I would be hypocritical. However, my son told me the other night that he finds our family very open and honest compared to others he knows (a friend of his just betrayed ds to his dad to get himself out of trouble). We are pretty open and I share a lot with my kids, including my own humanness. That is honesty.

[Dobela]

It is a good time to let him know no person is mistake free. We all make mistakes, and do things that are wrong. If you are a Christian, it is a good time to talk about that verse in Romans -no man is without sin. Your being honest with him will help him be honest with you. Life isn't about being pefect - it is about working hard to improve.

 

As far as the person asking for money - A simple no is all you had to say. If she is used to panhandling (as it seems) that is often heard and she can go to someone else. I have heard that they often target people with children in tow because of the dilemma it creates for you - if you don't give you aren't practicing generosity and you aren't being a good example because aren't you always supposed to help anyone in need? Catch where this is going???

[LibraryLover]

That happened to me. It was the middle of the day, tons of people around-- and this market also has a gas station. I said I didn't have money to give, but I had a gas card and I could put $5 worth of gas in the car to help. She seemed annoyed and walked away.

 

I told my children in the car that didn't mind helping if they were stuck and truly needed gas. (We did talk about safety/social issues...but that is an ongoing conversation...as issues arise...parking garages, folks requesting money in the city parks, corners, at stop lights etc.)

 

ETA: I mentioned this situation to my kids just now, and my oldest dd said I also offered to call someone for her on my cell. I'd forgotten that, but that's another way to help in a legitimate no gas situation. Substance abuse issues are usually the reason people need cash only. It's certainly a conversation starter with kids.

Edited October 10, 2010 by LibraryLover

[kalanamak]

My son was there and I knew he probably knew I had some cash, so as soon as we backed out I told him I was wrong in lying.

 

Well, I wouldn't have thought I was wrong, so I would have mentioned that I said what I said because sometimes the consequences of being truthful are to "expensive". This person was being unreasonable. Do I expect a "reasonable" response from her? Do I want to work up the ire of someone who has different coping methods than I do? Would it be wise to be "truthful" just to be able to hold up a little statuette and say "see I'm always truthful"? I don't think so. A lie is malicious, a fib is the better part of valor.

 

The whole situation would, if this were not a common and already-covered event, have been our homebound conversation, but my "lie" would have been the smallest part of it.

[angela in ohio]

I think telling our dc that we always tell the absolute truth is simplistic. Eight is old enough to know that we don't always say the truth, and that that is different than lying. If I am alone with my dc, I always say "I'm sorry, I don't keep cash on me." That is a safety issue. My 8 yo knows that when great grandma asks, "Do I look old?" you don't say, "Yes," even though she does. The difference is in whether the lie helps you or the other person. In your case, the lie kept your dc safe and fed. In the case of grandma, it was to spare her feelings. When ds lies to get out of trouble, it is to help himself, so it is wrong.

 

Like LibraryLover, I have offered to use my credit card to put gas in someone's vehicle, and they turned down the offer. We don't give money on the street, but we donate our time and money to shelters and soup kitchens, where the resources will be more effectively used. Whenever we turn down a beggar, I remind dc that we are helping, just not in that way. I also help out the person in line in front of me when they are short of money by adding the food they can't afford to my bill. There are ways to help that are more effective, as well as safer for a women alone with children.

 

I would tell your son that lying to your parents is always wrong, but that there are times that adults need to not tell the truth, and that he will be mature enough to understand the difference better when he is an adult.

[sacgw]

So many great responses! Yes, I am a Christian and I will discuss the verse in Romans with him. Thank you for responding, I will definitely heed the advice in the posts.

 

Thanks again!:thumbup:

[LibraryLover]

Whenever we turn down a beggar, I remind dc that we are helping, just not in that way. I also help out the person in line in front of me when they are short of money by adding the food they can't afford to my bill. There are ways to help that are more effective, as well as safer for a women alone with children.

QUOTE]

 

:001_smile: Yes. I've only had the opportunity to help someone in the cashier line that way once, but it felt really nice and the person was very quiet about it, as was I, but she seemed so grateful. Random acts of kindness. Yk, next time I get coffee at a drive -thru, I am going to buy a large for the person behind me. I've only ever done that one other time as well.

 

We can all do with a little sunshine.

[lionfamily1999]

When asked for money in situations like that I just say NO. No explanation necessary.....just no.

:iagree:

[mykdsmomy]

I usually say "I can't today" (I will often follow it with an apology just because I feel bad for the person asking....I don't know their situation)

 

I think you did the right thing in that situation. I also think the Romans verse is a perfect fit for this. I struggle with this too and my older ds tends to be VERY literal so it's sometimes hard to explain "exceptions" to him. Good luck!!

[Pamela H in Texas]

sacgw,

 

I think it is wise for you to consider whether it is a good idea to lie at all as well as lie in front of your child.

 

In this world where almost everyone is lying ALL the time, it can be challenging to not adopt a similar pattern. I found the easiest way was to come to abhor lying. If you believe in the Bible, that can get pretty easy to do as the scriptures are extremely strong in terms of this behavior.

Edited October 10, 2010 by 2J5M9K

[Joanne]

I don't believe in "never lying". I think it's a lie. :D There are times when, technically, you lie. I think that "never tell a lie" sounds good, righteous and virtuous. But it's a fake and naive virtuosity.

 

You can't get through adulthood without lying. You have to lie through omission, at times, just to be kind or respectful.

 

The theory/concept of lying is too multileveled and nuanced for easy, glib theology or principles.

 

I believe kids are able to learn that most of the stuff they lie about in childhood are not appropriate.

 

I'd tell my kid "There are better ways for me to have said "no" to that person. Let me tell you why I said what I did and why I didn't give money".

[susankenny]

When confronted by people asking for money my response is always, "Not today."

 

But the bigger issue is your son. When I make mistakes like that, I acknowledge it to my kids and ask their forgiveness. I would talk to my son about how useful lying can be to avoid conflicts, but also the problems it can create. What a great opportunity to teach him that it's ok to make a mistake, and we all are working to keep our integrity.

 

 

yes, this.

[justasque]

I would tell your son that lying to your parents is always wrong, but that there are times that adults need to not tell the truth, and that he will be mature enough to understand the difference better when he is an adult.

 

I would explain that sometimes, if it's a safety issue, it might be ok to lie or break the rules. In our house, "safety issue" is a key phrase - my kids know it is a situation where the normal rules may not apply, and when they must do exactly what mom says, quickly, without argument or discussion, even if it seems strange. (We lived in an inner city for a while, and sometimes encountered situations where conflict was brewing, people were "off", weapons were present, etc., where I needed to say "we are leaving NOW" without having to explain why or call attention to ourselves.) Sometimes, when it's a safety issue, you don't have time to figure out the perfect answer, you just have to go with your instincts and then afterwords you can consider how to handle it differently if it happens again.

 

It's easy to come up with examples of "safety issues" that kids can understand, though I usually made them about "bad guys" in a literature-like rather than real-life-like way, if that makes sense, so as not to overly scare them.

 

For some kids, you can start out with the simple explanation ("never lie"), but with my kids I found that they were able to go more complex up-front, and that by discussing the complexities and exceptions, they accepted the basic concept more readily than if I just tried to press the simplistic version on them. Obviously, this doesn't work for every kid.

 

I think it also gives them some tools they can use when they are feeling unsafe or don't want to share private information. It *is* sometimes OK to lie to a stranger if you are feeling unsafe and the lie can get you out of the situation.

 

Obviously, lying and law breaking should be used sparingly, but as adults we *do* sometimes do it if the situation calls for it. (A law breaking example - once I was driving, stopped at a stoplight, and a bystander was playing around with a gun and pointed it at me. It took me a minute to figure out that it was OK to run the red light - which I promptly did. Should people run red lights? Generally, no. Are there situations where it is OK? Yes, there are.)

[Miss Sherry]

This evening as my son and I were leaving the grocery store and entering our vehicle, I was approached by a woman for money. This is the third time I have seen this woman around town, and the second time she has asked me for money. Both times she had the same story. The first time she approached me, I was with my youngest daughter, and she came at me with a hoody over her head and in the late evening. She looked homeless, and very messed up. The second time I saw her she was in the E.R. waiting room, but she did not approach me for money.

 

Tonight when she approached me, I saw her husband standing by their truck with groceries in hand. She had a cigarette in her mouth and asked for money because they were out of gas and needed to get home. Things are very tight for us, and if I felt she was truly in need I would have given her whatever I had, knowing that God would provide for us. However, seeing that cigarette in hand and hearing the same exact story, all I could think of was that she was taking money that I needed to feed my children. Now, as I write this I should have told her I needed what we had to feed my kids but at the time I just said I didn't have any cash. My son was there and I knew he probably knew I had some cash, so as soon as we backed out I told him I was wrong in lying. That this woman had approached me before and that she was not really in need. Oh, as I drove out of the lot, she and her husband drove away.

 

My ds is 8.5yrs old and he has been lying a lot lately. I have been stressing to him that it breaks our trust every time he lies. I feel like I just set us back by doing this today. I don't know how to remedy this. What do you do when someone approaches you for money that you feel really isn't in need but is just scamming/using you? Now what do I do with my son? I am supposed to be the example and in his eyes I have just told him that lying is ok when it suits us.:confused:

Just because you had some cash on you does not mean that you had cash on you that was available to give to her and you do not need to explain to her if you have any cash or not or why you can or cannot give her cash.

You may want to just let your son know (since you think he already knew you had some cash on you) that although you had some cash, you didn't have extra to give to that person because it's already earmarked to spend on other things. It's also not safe to tell strangers you have cash on you.

Also, I would explain that it's often best to say as little as possible. For example, instead of mentioning cash at all a simple "no,not this time" would have been sufficient.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Miss Sherry

[Garga]

Usually, I'd just do the things people have posted above: explaining the lies that people tell in day-to-day life and letting this incident slide. HOWEVER!!! Since your son is having trouble with lying at this particular time, I think you need to do more than brush this under the carpet. While I don't think it was necessarily a "lie" that you told the woman, you might want to use this as a teachable moment for your son. Here was my thought:

 

It sounds like you're Christian. If so, you might want to allow him to hear you ask God for forgiveness. I would make a semi-big deal about it. I might tell him, "I need to go before God about this. I'd like you here with me because you had to witness my lie," then, have him sit with you while you find a scripture or two about lying. Read it out loud and then pray and tell God you're sorry for disobeying scripture and ask for forgiveness.

 

It might be more of an impact for him to see you have to grapple with your mistake instead of viewing you as perfect in this area. He's obviously not perfect in this area, and it might inspire him to work harder at it, if he sees how to deal with it and the seriousness with which you handled it in your own life.

 

I would NOT get preachy toward your son about this. I would simply let him observe how you deal with this for yourself. If you end it with a sermon about "See how I had to deal with it? You have to do the same things," is overkill. But if you handle your lie in sincerity for yourself, then you don't need the "sermon" for him to apply to his own life.

 

If your son is old enough, you might even want to talk about the "double standard" that he saw in you. In his eyes, you tell him not to lie...but then he saw you lie! As adults we know the difference. You might want to be sure that as a child, he sees the difference, too, and doesn't disregard you from now on when you tell him not to lie.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Garga

[Snowfall]

Well, I wouldn't have thought I was wrong, so I would have mentioned that I said what I said because sometimes the consequences of being truthful are to "expensive". This person was being unreasonable. Do I expect a "reasonable" response from her? Do I want to work up the ire of someone who has different coping methods than I do? Would it be wise to be "truthful" just to be able to hold up a little statuette and say "see I'm always truthful"? I don't think so. A lie is malicious, a fib is the better part of valor.

 

The whole situation would, if this were not a common and already-covered event, have been our homebound conversation, but my "lie" would have been the smallest part of it.

 

I agree. Besides, the Bible actually says not to bear false witness against your neighbor. How on earth does that have anything to do with telling a panhandler that you don't have money to give her? I've never understood how that particular commandment came to be interpreted as "Don't ever lie, for any reason, no matter what." That's not what it says. It says don't make up stories about your neighbors.

[Jenn in Mo]

While I agree that lying isn't expressly forbidden in the ten commandments (in fact, in Exodus, the midwives were praised for lying to Pharaoh about Hebrew women giving birth on their own,) but Ephesians 4:25 says Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body.

 

I think you handled it beautifully by admitting they lie to your son and expressing remorse.

 

As for the lying...yuck. We all have to try it some point, it seems. It was easier on me when my younger two tried it, but I took it so personally when my first two tried it. I think you're handling it very well by expressing that it breaks trust between you both. You may need to make this thought sink in deeper by removing privileges (playdates and such) that require you to trust him to make good choices until he has demonstrated that he is trustworthy.

 

I'm sure you're setting a good example, but you might be hyper-vigilant for a little while to be sure he doesn't catch you saying, "Tell them I'm in the shower" instead of coming to the phone; refunding your cashier if she gives you too much change; etc.

 

We're all human and we're all going to mess up, but I think it is incredibly important for them to see us set a good example in how we handle our mistakes.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Besides, the Bible actually says not to bear false witness against your neighbor. How on earth does that have anything to do with telling a panhandler that you don't have money to give her? I've never understood how that particular commandment came to be interpreted as "Don't ever lie, for any reason, no matter what." That's not what it says. It says don't make up stories about your neighbors.

 

That is ONE verse. However, starting with "the father of the lie" (Satan) and how liars are one of the groups of people who will not inherit the Kingdom of God? There are TONS of scriptures about not lying.

 

However, it also discusses things like being discreet and _______(can't think of the word). That means we don't have to intentionally hurt people, be brutally blunt, or give people up to very bad men. There are ways around it without all lying. Telling the Nazis that the Samuel went to America is lying. Telling them you don't know exactly where they are (because chances are that even if you have a good idea, you don't!) is quite another. You don't owe them "but they have been staying in the basement of the building at 114 Such-n-Such Street."

 

And people make mistakes. The Bible encourages us to hate what God hates (including lying). But God knows we're but dust. We should not intentionally mess up (the OP didn't as far as I can tell) and we should ask for forgiveness and try to align ourselves with God's standards in the future.

 

Of course, some people may not like that God doesn't like lying or that though it's hard, we should try not to do it. They may call it all sorts of things, even nobel or right. But....

 

BTW, it is probably very true for someone to say that they don't have the money to give.

Edited October 10, 2010 by 2J5M9K

[Dobela]

That is ONE verse. However, starting with "the father of the lie" (Satan) and how liars are one of the groups of people who will not inherit the Kingdom of God? There are TONS of scriptures about not lying.

 

However, it also discusses things like being discreet and _______(can't think of the word). That means we don't have to intentionally hurt people, be brutally blunt, or give people up to very bad men. There are ways around it without all lying. Telling the Nazis that the Samuel went to America is lying. Telling them you don't know exactly where they are (because chances are that even if you have a good idea, you don't!) is quite another. You don't owe them "but they have been staying in the basement of the building at 114 Such-n-Such Street."

 

And people make mistakes. The Bible encourages us to hate what God hates (including lying). But God knows we're but dust. We should not intentionally mess up (the OP didn't as far as I can tell) and we should ask for forgiveness and try to align ourselves with God's standards in the future.

 

Of course, some people may not like that God doesn't like lying or that though it's hard, we should try not to do it. They may call it all sorts of things, even nobel or right. But....

 

BTW, it is probably very true for someone to say that they don't have the money to give.

The verse my son had to memorize for youth group last week was Proverbs 6:16-19: There are 6 things the Lord hates,

7 that are an abomination to him

Haughty eyes

a lying tongue

hands that shed innocnet blood

A heart that schemes wicked things

feet that rush to evil

A false witness who pours out lies

and a man tht stirs up dissention among his brothers.

[ZooRho]

I agree NO is an okay comment.

 

when mine were younger I also in other situations (ususally where they were asking for things) I would say "I dont' have money for THAT".

[Miss Sherry]

That is ONE verse. However, starting with "the father of the lie" (Satan) and how liars are one of the groups of people who will not inherit the Kingdom of God? There are TONS of scriptures about not lying.

 

However, it also discusses things like being discreet and _______(can't think of the word). That means we don't have to intentionally hurt people, be brutally blunt, or give people up to very bad men. There are ways around it without all lying. Telling the Nazis that the Samuel went to America is lying. Telling them you don't know exactly where they are (because chances are that even if you have a good idea, you don't!) is quite another. You don't owe them "but they have been staying in the basement of the building at 114 Such-n-Such Street."

 

And people make mistakes. The Bible encourages us to hate what God hates (including lying). But God knows we're but dust. We should not intentionally mess up (the OP didn't as far as I can tell) and we should ask for forgiveness and try to align ourselves with God's standards in the future.

 

Of course, some people may not like that God doesn't like lying or that though it's hard, we should try not to do it. They may call it all sorts of things, even nobel or right. But....

 

BTW, it is probably very true for someone to say that they don't have the money to give.

:lol: I think I need to go to bed now. My eyes are getting too tired. I just read "but God know's we're nuts." But of course that is not what you said. But maybe he does think we are nuts at times. :001_huh::lol: The more I read the worse it gets. ...."what God hates (including typing)" (typing substituted for lying ) The glasses I'm wearing are not my regular reading glasses or my eyes probably wouldn't be quite so tired.

Regarding lying, I'm sure there are numerous verses on it in the Bible. If anyone would like to look some up an easy way is to use http://www.biblegateway.com

 

 

Well, goodnight to all.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Miss Sherry

[Parrothead]

I don't think I've ever been actually approached by someone specifically for money. My standard answer for begging/solicitation is, "No, not today."

 

It sounds like you need to adopt a standard answer that will cover all most all, if not all, situations.