Is there some kind of boot camp or Dave Ramsey for parenting?

[gpsings]

I'm at a loss right now, and really stumped. I thought I was a good mother, I always put my kids needs ahead of my own, I used time-outs and sometimes spanking...though I was never comfortable with spanking, and time outs really do eat up my day when you have a 3 year old who's in 6 times a day and won't stay put...

But I digress...

Over the last few weeks I'm realizing that my kids are spoiled rotten. They are nice around strangers, but to me they are rude, disrespectful, demanding, demeaning, assuming and selfish. I won't go into all the specific behaviors, but today I lost it. They didn't finish their schoolwork until almost 4:00 which was too late to do errands, so I asked them to do some chores -which they kinda halfway did- and then said they could play the wii while I fixed dinner.

I swear, all they did was fight, whine, tattle and my 10 year old is giving me major attitude. I spanked my son for hitting, my 10 year old gave me a dirty look and told me I'm the one teaching him to hit!

I finally screamed at them that I couldn't take it and they were all a bunch of spoiled brats and told them all to go to their own rooms until I could deal with them again.

Here I am.

I don't know how to deal with them.

(a little background: I was abused as a child and spent the latter half of my childhood in foster placements. Mostly group homes and residentials, so...no parental role models)

Please, someone, I've read so many books, why am I not getting this parenting thing???:crying:

[simka2]

I would recommend http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Love-Logic-Updated-Expanded/dp/1576839540/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1285107266&sr=1-1

 

or

http://www.amazon.com/Key-Your-Childs-Heart/dp/0849938864/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1285107323&sr=1-1

 

or

http://www.amazon.com/Shepherding-Childs-Heart-Tedd-Tripp/dp/0966378601/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1285107379&sr=1-1

 

Hope that helps! and:grouphug:!!!!

[ktgrok]

ggogle Raising Godly Tomatoes, although I don't spank I love everything else.

[dansamy]

Take everything but basic necessities away from them. It's harsh, but it helps them appreciate the things they have. If they do not appreciate *you*, then you stop doing for them. Cook your own food. Wash your laundry. They may eat cereal, cold cut or PB&J sandwiches and wash their own laundry. When they hit, don't spank. Sit on the couch and hug or hold hands for X amount of time. (The two offenders I mean. Although, they could benefit from some mom hugging too.)

 

Now, if someone could just help me with yelling..... I'm trying, but it's really hard.

[jec3113]

We are sort of in the same boat. The girl is really sassy these days. This will not be easy....The first thing you do is remove the Wii and any other TV, game system, computer, whatever. The second thing is to get rid of about half of their stuff. Clearly, they do not appreciate it anyway, right? Starting tomorrow their life is like boot camp. Polite, respectful, etc. You will have to constantly let them know what you expect and how you expect to be treated. Privileges will have to be earned by throughly completing chores with a good attitude. Please, thank you, and other nice phrases should be heard often. You will have to be consistent and it will take time. The little buggers will test you. I have even gone so far as to empty the room of everything but clothes and bed to get a childs attention. If the kid slams a door, it is removed for at least a week. Some natural consequences will come into play here also. If you ask kid to do A and A doesn't get done you do not nag or yell. When kid wants something, you simply smile and say "Oh, sorry but I can't do B because you didn't do A." It won't take too long for things to improve. Good luck.

[gpsings]

I'm not trying in any way to shoot you down but would you believe I've already read L&L AND Shepherding a Child's Heart? (Not the other one...)

I really didn't grasp the application of either of them. I couldn't think of 'choices' fast enough for L&L and Shepherding was just vague.

Maybe I'm just not cut out for this. I really have lost faith in myself as a parent, and I don't know if I have the confidence to carry through with anything.

I guess I just wanted a 'formula' or something.

[gpsings]

ggogle Raising Godly Tomatoes, although I don't spank I love everything else.

I actually have that book too! I liked it, but the forum board was harsh.

 

Take everything but basic necessities away from them. It's harsh, but it helps them appreciate the things they have. If they do not appreciate *you*, then you stop doing for them. Cook your own food. Wash your laundry. They may eat cereal, cold cut or PB&J sandwiches and wash their own laundry. When they hit, don't spank. Sit on the couch and hug or hold hands for X amount of time. (The two offenders I mean. Although, they could benefit from some mom hugging too.)

 

Now, if someone could just help me with yelling..... I'm trying, but it's really hard.

 

This. This is what I needed to hear. This. Thank you. :grouphug:

 

We are sort of in the same boat. The girl is really sassy these days. This will not be easy....The first thing you do is remove the Wii and any other TV, game system, computer, whatever. The second thing is to get rid of about half of their stuff. Clearly, they do not appreciate it anyway, right? Starting tomorrow their life is like boot camp. Polite, respectful, etc. You will have to constantly let them know what you expect and how you expect to be treated. Privileges will have to be earned by throughly completing chores with a good attitude. Please, thank you, and other nice phrases should be heard often. You will have to be consistent and it will take time. The little buggers will test you. I have even gone so far as to empty the room of everything but clothes and bed to get a childs attention. If the kid slams a door, it is removed for at least a week. Some natural consequences will come into play here also. If you ask kid to do A and A doesn't get done you do not nag or yell. When kid wants something, you simply smile and say "Oh, sorry but I can't do B because you didn't do A." It won't take too long for things to improve. Good luck.

 

And this. Thank you. I'm gonna have to talk to dh about this, and begin the implementation.

[mmasmommy]

:grouphug:

 

That sounds like a day at my house as well. I thought there was going to be a physical fight today over legos. :001_huh: I think I'm finally starting to realize though that the kids mirror my behavior. If I am short tempered and grumpy they respond in kind. Not to say that this is your (or my) fault. Plenty of the behavior is of their own accord. I am terrible at discipline consistancy and make ridiculous threats that I (and they) know I will never follow through on. I too have read every parenting book under the sun but nothing seems to stick.

 

One thing that I have started doing before getting out of bed every morning (I used to hop up the second the alarm went off) is to allow myself a couple of mins to wake up, stretch, take a few deep breaths, and repeat the mantra "today is goning to be a good day". It really has helped me start off my day calmer. I also make it a point to say good morning to each of the kids and give them a hug when they first come downstairs so that their first experience with the day and me is a good one.

 

All of this is a long winded way of saying you are not alone. I will be :bigear: for the wisdom of the hive on this one.

[Whereneverever]

:grouphug:

[Dandelion]

Please, someone, I've read so many books, why am I not getting this parenting thing???:crying:

 

Just wanted to send some :grouphug: and say "you're not alone!!".

 

The one approach that has worked for me consistently (and I've also read TONS of parenting books and tried almost every approach out there) is the approach outlined in "Setting Limits with Your Strong-Willed Child : Eliminating Conflict by Establishing Clear, Firm, and Respectful Boundaries." http://www.amazon.com/Setting-Limits-Your-Strong-Willed-Child/dp/0761521364

 

Even if you don't think you have strong-willed children, I would highly recommend this book. If you don't have time to read another book right now, here is the concept in a nutshell: couple your requests/directives with the bottom line. Each time you tell your child(ren) to do something, tell them what will happen if they don't. You're not being mean - you're just giving them information about the consequence up front, which cuts out all the testing, whining, foot dragging, etc. For example: "Please turn off the TV now and come to dinner, or TV privileges will be lost for the rest of the evening." Of course, you then have to implement the consequence as promised (with no second, third, etc. chances) in order for your kids to get that you mean business. In my experience, it only takes a few times of following through before they realize "Oh, mom really means it - I better comply."

 

I have an extremely strong-willed, obstinate, argumentative 7-year old - and I'm amazed again and again how well this works with him (while time-outs, warnings, etc. really don't!). Whenever I forget to phrase things this way, we have problems - but if I stick with it, things go so much more smoothly....

 

HTH!

[gpsings]

:grouphug:

 

That sounds like a day at my house as well. I thought there was going to be a physical fight today over legos. :001_huh: I think I'm finally starting to realize though that the kids mirror my behavior. If I am short tempered and grumpy they respond in kind. Not to say that this is your (or my) fault. Plenty of the behavior is of their own accord. I am terrible at discipline consistancy and make ridiculous threats that I (and they) know I will never follow through on. I too have read every parenting book under the sun but nothing seems to stick.

 

One thing that I have started doing before getting out of bed every morning (I used to hop up the second the alarm went off) is to allow myself a couple of mins to wake up, stretch, take a few deep breaths, and repeat the mantra "today is goning to be a good day". It really has helped me start off my day calmer. I also make it a point to say good morning to each of the kids and give them a hug when they first come downstairs so that their first experience with the day and me is a good one.

 

All of this is a long winded way of saying you are not alone. I will be :bigear: for the wisdom of the hive on this one.

 

:grouphug:

 

Just wanted to send some :grouphug: and say "you're not alone!!".

 

The one approach that has worked for me consistently (and I've also read TONS of parenting books and tried almost every approach out there) is the approach outlined in "Setting Limits with Your Strong-Willed Child : Eliminating Conflict by Establishing Clear, Firm, and Respectful Boundaries." http://www.amazon.com/Setting-Limits-Your-Strong-Willed-Child/dp/0761521364

 

Even if you don't think you have strong-willed children, I would highly recommend this book. If you don't have time to read another book right now, here is the concept in a nutshell: couple your requests/directives with the bottom line. Each time you tell your child(ren) to do something, tell them what will happen if they don't. You're not being mean - you're just giving them information about the consequence up front, which cuts out all the testing, whining, foot dragging, etc. For example: "Please turn off the TV now and come to dinner, or TV privileges will be lost for the rest of the evening." Of course, you then have to implement the consequence as promised (with no second, third, etc. chances) in order for your kids to get that you mean business. In my experience, it only takes a few times of following through before they realize "Oh, mom really means it - I better comply."

 

I have an extremely strong-willed, obstinate, argumentative 7-year old - and I'm amazed again and again how well this works with him (while time-outs, warnings, etc. really don't!). Whenever I forget to phrase things this way, we have problems - but if I stick with it, things go so much more smoothly....

 

HTH!

 

Thank you. It really helps to come here and get sound logical advice in the midst of my personal storm. Thank you. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[fairfarmhand]

I'm not trying in any way to shoot you down but would you believe I've already read L&L AND Shepherding a Child's Heart? (Not the other one...)

I really didn't grasp the application of either of them. I couldn't think of 'choices' fast enough for L&L and Shepherding was just vague.

Maybe I'm just not cut out for this. I really have lost faith in myself as a parent, and I don't know if I have the confidence to carry through with anything.

I guess I just wanted a 'formula' or something.

 

 

write it down.

 

Make a list of your top ten annoyances....not just the behavior but the motivations behind the actions

 

Disrespect in words or actions (this will cover sassiness, door slamming, backtalk) Write down an acceptable answer when you tell them to do something. "May I finish this chapter first, Mom? not "just a sec, I'm busy" Or if you tell them "No, I need you to do it right away." They are to respond " yes, ma'm" or "ok, Mom"

 

Disobedience. (delayed obedience counts as disobedience. If someone "forgets" to do something that I told them to do, then they have to do the original task plus another chore.)

 

Arguing, bickering

 

Whining

 

Destroying property that belongs to another (this includes the house, and furnishings...they belong to you!)

 

Never argue with mom.

 

Don't pester or pick fights.

 

No hitting

 

etc....

 

 

 

Then, write down a list of consequences....slamming a door in anger means you lose your door for a few days. Bickering means they have to sit in a very boring spot for awhile. Destroying someone else's property means they have to pay for a replacement. Make a long list of chores to be done and then you don't have to think up things on the spur of the moment. You just look at your list. "Hmmm....well, you violated the rules. You owe me one chore."

 

Then you have a family meeting and read out the list of expectations and the consequences that will be issued. I found that doing this means that I don't have a chance to get frustrated because I addressed the small behaviors before they became big problems.

[fairfarmhand]

here are some past threads that might help...

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162714&highlight=rules

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178039&highlight=rules

[BeckyFL]

Our church sponsored a great class, Growing Kids God's Way. It was excellent and would really help you with your responses. Here's the org. website.

 

http://www.gfi.org/java/jsp/cust_store.jsp

[hmschoolmom22]

Thank you for this topic! I need to read every word of it!!

:grouphug:

[kwickimom]

I totally second the setting of clear boundaries and consequences. I would sit down with everyone and write it all down. Give them an adjustment period of a week and then...go full force.

 

Spanking doesnt bother me either way (it works for some, not for others) but I have a friend who had a similar background as you and counselors told her to try and not spank because of her history. Once she worked through her past, they wanted her to rid any triggers of it. Just an idea, I am not a counselor and I dont judge one way or the other on the spanking issue. That thought just popped in my head.

[MotherGoose]

:iagree:

We are sort of in the same boat. The girl is really sassy these days. This will not be easy....The first thing you do is remove the Wii and any other TV, game system, computer, whatever. The second thing is to get rid of about half of their stuff. Clearly, they do not appreciate it anyway, right? Starting tomorrow their life is like boot camp. Polite, respectful, etc. You will have to constantly let them know what you expect and how you expect to be treated. Privileges will have to be earned by throughly completing chores with a good attitude. Please, thank you, and other nice phrases should be heard often. You will have to be consistent and it will take time. The little buggers will test you. I have even gone so far as to empty the room of everything but clothes and bed to get a childs attention. If the kid slams a door, it is removed for at least a week. Some natural consequences will come into play here also. If you ask kid to do A and A doesn't get done you do not nag or yell. When kid wants something, you simply smile and say "Oh, sorry but I can't do B because you didn't do A." It won't take too long for things to improve. Good luck.

 

And sometimes kids just drive you insane for no apparent reason. In the past few days, my dd4 poured a cup of milk over her head (that was the end of dinner for her, and straight to bed although she hadn't finished eating) and put the plate of food she didn't want on the floor for the dogs to eat and expected me to give her the food she did want (again, meal over & straight to bed). I think you have to do some sort of wild, but logical consequence, and STICK TO IT, without nagging/yelling

[Laurie4b]

Our church sponsored a great class, Growing Kids God's Way. It was excellent and would really help you with your responses. Here's the org. website.

 

http://www.gfi.org/java/jsp/cust_store.jsp

 

I don't want to start a whole shebang here but anyone considering this, please google ezzo before pursuing it.

[5LittleMonkeys]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380811960/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d5_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1GTJSF8RGM4W56KD9ZY5&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

 

(Actually anything by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish is good)

 

This is the backbone of how I parent. I know you probably don't want another book to read but this is the one of dozens that really hit home with me.

 

It teaches you to validate your dc's feelings while requiring they follow all the rules, are respectful to you and their siblings and have to deal with natural consequences that you dish out unemotionally. Privileges (anything above basic needs) are earned through good behavior. That is it in a nutshell.

 

The thing I liked about this book is that it kind of gave me a script from the get go. It is based on a parenting seminar that the authors did and gives examples of problems that parents from the seminar were having and how they progressed during the course of the seminars. It did remind me of a Dave Ramsey seminar.

[melissel]

The one approach that has worked for me consistently (and I've also read TONS of parenting books and tried almost every approach out there) is the approach outlined in "Setting Limits with Your Strong-Willed Child : Eliminating Conflict by Establishing Clear, Firm, and Respectful Boundaries." http://www.amazon.com/Setting-Limits-Your-Strong-Willed-Child/dp/0761521364

 

I was going to suggest the same book! For some reason, none of the terrific, thoughtful, experienced advice I was given or books I read prior to this one really clicked, but this one did, in a big way. He gives scripts and scenarios that helped me SO MUCH. I told DH that it was like the author came and lived in our house for a week and then went and wrote this book. I highly recommend it.

 

Also (and this won't be for everyone, I'm sure, but it's the key to the kingdom for me), unless I'm taking my 5-HTP regularly, I am too wound up to be calm in these kinds of situations (my DD5 is the issue-generator here). When I'm taking it regularly, I'm cool, calm, and in control of our exchanges and am able to hang on to my temper long enough to ride out the power struggles. When I'm not taking it, she and I are shrieking and carping at each other all day long, and that is not productive at all. Last Friday, for example, DD and I went head to head at least four time during the day, and I didn't lose it once. I was able to hold my boundaries, and since then we've had smooth sailing :D

 

Good luck, I know how hard it is to be there :grouphug:

[Laurie4b]

I'm at a loss right now, and really stumped. I thought I was a good mother, I always put my kids needs ahead of my own, I used time-outs and sometimes spanking...though I was never comfortable with spanking, and time outs really do eat up my day when you have a 3 year old who's in 6 times a day and won't stay put...

But I digress...

Over the last few weeks I'm realizing that my kids are spoiled rotten. They are nice around strangers, but to me they are rude, disrespectful, demanding, demeaning, assuming and selfish. I won't go into all the specific behaviors, but today I lost it. They didn't finish their schoolwork until almost 4:00 which was too late to do errands, so I asked them to do some chores -which they kinda halfway did- and then said they could play the wii while I fixed dinner.

I swear, all they did was fight, whine, tattle and my 10 year old is giving me major attitude. I spanked my son for hitting, my 10 year old gave me a dirty look and told me I'm the one teaching him to hit!

I finally screamed at them that I couldn't take it and they were all a bunch of spoiled brats and told them all to go to their own rooms until I could deal with them again.

Here I am.

I don't know how to deal with them.

(a little background: I was abused as a child and spent the latter half of my childhood in foster placements. Mostly group homes and residentials, so...no parental role models)

Please, someone, I've read so many books, why am I not getting this parenting thing???:crying:

 

In your situation, I would look for a mentor--preferably someone who has already raised their children and who you feel comfortable with or someone who was raised in a happy home and who you are comfortable with. (I would be more careful of peer mentors than older mentors. Sometimes people whose kids look great on the outside are seething on the inside and this comes out when they are older. Many churches have classes on parenting and offer mentors. If you're not a church-goer, sometimes the YMCA or other community organization will offer something similar. Real-life help can go a longer way than reading more books.

[jec3113]

Glad to help. I will not lie to you. This is exhausting and you will feel like a meanie!:001_smile: But the results will be worth it. Forgot to mention school. Give them a timetable for completing work. If you have errands or an appointment, then the work is done on your schedule. You were manipulated when you didn't leave the house b/c the work wasn't finished. If the work isn't finished when you are ready to leave the house, then guess what, it's called homework and while other family members are enjoying TV or Wii, or whatever that child is doing school work. No dessert for incomplete work is fun (for you) too.:001_smile: Total loss of privileges. Bet, the next day, it gets done. Husband has to be on board, too. Took a while for us to figure out how to be on the same page. Still have issues occasionally, but after a week back in mommy "boot camp" it straightens right out. Please keep us posted about how it is going.

[MelanieM]

I have a pretty intense 5 yr old that is a boundary pusher by nature. We started a points system this summer and it has been so wonderful for all of us!

 

The basic idea of our system (which underwent a few revisions as we figured out what would work best for us) is that we award points three times a day. At breakfast, a point is awarded for the evening prior, at lunch for the morning, and at dinner time for the afternoon. Points will not be awarded to a child that has hit or used inappropriate language, and such behaviour might also result in the loss of an additional point. Points can be cashed in for money/treats at a rate of 5 points per dollar. We started with a treasure chest the kids could pull treats from, but now they like saving up and getting something bigger.

 

When we first started this my son went into negative numbers, even though I gave them 10 points to get them going! (And like a good homeschooling mama, I used the opportunity for a fun math lesson! lol!) But he quickly learned what is expected to earn his point, and now I only have to give a warning if something looks to be going downhill and it nips things in the bud.

 

I think the best part about this system is that it's an opportunity for us to celebrate what is working several times a day, rather than focusing on the problem areas. It gives me a chance to tell the kids how much I appreciate how wonderful they were all morning, or how great it was when they helped with their brother in the afternoon, etc. I also randomly award extra points when they've been super helpful with something, or when I see them being especially kind to each other.

 

I do try really hard to let any infraction go after the time it's dealt with, so when points are given out and a child doesn't get one it's pretty matter of fact. "Yeah, it's really unfortunate that you didn't get your point for the morning. Hopefully this afternoon will go a little better and you'll get your point at dinner time."

 

Oh, and we try to keep the focus of the points on very specific things we're working on -- hitting and language -- so the kids are clear on what will result in failure to receive a point. I think the specifics really help to get the message home that we're working on a particular aspect of behaviour, and so we have no issues with a child thinking they should get a point and a parent being seen as withholding. If my kid isn't getting his point he knows clearly why that is, and understands that the matter of whether or not he earns his points sits squarely on his shoulders.

 

Eek! Sorry that turned out so long... I hope it's helpful to you or someone else that's reading along. :hug:

[gpsings]

I never did get back about this...we still haven't implemented hard-core 'boot camp' yet, but I've talked to dh and explained it to the kids, and it's been effective just as a possibility. :lol:

Seriously, though, I really like the idea of cheerful obedience, and I'm also trying to change the schedule up so that the little one has minimal opportunity to interrupt the school day. This has helped.

I mostly have issues with the attitude of my 6 year old. Here is an example of an everyday conversation we have. (sometimes we have this conversation several times)

Her: MOOOOM, I need help....MOOOOM!!! I NEED HELP!!!

Me: How would you ask me for help?

Her: *rolls eyes* Moooom, will you PLEEEASE help me?

Me: *sigh* OK, bring it here.

Her: No! You come here!

Me: I'm with your brother right now, so bring it in here if you need my help.

Her: NEVERMIND! *Throws down pencil or book* puts head in arms on the table.

I have various reactions. Either I will come in there and firmly tell her to sit up and tell me what she needs help with, which will be like pulling teeth, because, remember- she doesn't need help anymore...or I ignore it.

Often when she needs help, it's with something she's just not even paying attention to. Something she's already done 100 times.

This is frustrating. She's also mean with the other kids a lot and I have to step in quickly and diffuse because it can go from 0-hitting in .5 seconds.

I do recognize that spanking doesn't work for me, for whatever reason. I just don't seem to implement it properly, or have the right presence, or whatever...so I'm not comfortable with it, though since I don't know any other way to immediately get their attention, I still use it.

Could still use ideas. Please. :bigear:

[anneofalamo]

first off, a huge hug to a mom who is loving her kids and wants to do write, I think you get points right off for that

 

I do believe we get weary and worn out fast. It is easier to do it than go to battle. But each battle won is worth it later. I almost have to repeat that in my head.

 

Yelling at mom for help.

Up you go...

DD, in your room timer for 5 minutes, come out, pick up your pencil and book, then apologize to me for yelling please.

Back to working with other child

at 5 minutes timer goes off, DD shows up apologies, and a kiss and cuddle and restate question. Help as needed.

 

The time lost is on her that afternoon, evening. The work is to be completed. She loses 5 minutes of work time during school and has to do her work that afternoon.

Next time she needs help, she has to get up, so she has to put effort into it, versus a screech to mom to come running.

 

It has worked here. I chew the inside of my mouth, as I calmly announce 5 minutes in room please, and then come out nicely, apologize and we will start over.

 

for the record, my kids were very abused and came out of foster to be in our hearts and home forever. They no longer yell to mom in another room, it took once for a couple and one dd took a lot longer!!

[Harriet Vane]

It sounds to me like you've got the right instincts and a lot of the right pieces, but want/need a little coaching. You've read a lot of the right books, and have trained your kids in important areas. Sounds like a coaching need, not a reading-theory need.

 

Some options:

 

--Professional therapist. Make sure to specifically get one who has done parent coaching before and can offer behavior modification training. There are even therapists who will come observe your family dynamic in order to better help (like those nanny shows on TV:)_.

 

--Wise older mom in your church? Choose carefully.

[gpsings]

first off, a huge hug to a mom who is loving her kids and wants to do write, I think you get points right off for that

 

I do believe we get weary and worn out fast. It is easier to do it than go to battle. But each battle won is worth it later. I almost have to repeat that in my head.

 

Yelling at mom for help.

Up you go...

DD, in your room timer for 5 minutes, come out, pick up your pencil and book, then apologize to me for yelling please.

Back to working with other child

at 5 minutes timer goes off, DD shows up apologies, and a kiss and cuddle and restate question. Help as needed.

 

The time lost is on her that afternoon, evening. The work is to be completed. She loses 5 minutes of work time during school and has to do her work that afternoon.

Next time she needs help, she has to get up, so she has to put effort into it, versus a screech to mom to come running.

 

It has worked here. I chew the inside of my mouth, as I calmly announce 5 minutes in room please, and then come out nicely, apologize and we will start over.

 

for the record, my kids were very abused and came out of foster to be in our hearts and home forever. They no longer yell to mom in another room, it took once for a couple and one dd took a lot longer!!

 

Excellent Excellent EXCELLENT advice!!! Thank you so much! I just don't know how to set good boundaries. I know when they've been crossed...but I need to work on the firm setting of them. Thank you so much for this.

 

It sounds to me like you've got the right instincts and a lot of the right pieces, but want/need a little coaching. You've read a lot of the right books, and have trained your kids in important areas. Sounds like a coaching need, not a reading-theory need.

 

Some options:

 

--Professional therapist. Make sure to specifically get one who has done parent coaching before and can offer behavior modification training. There are even therapists who will come observe your family dynamic in order to better help (like those nanny shows on TV:)_.

 

--Wise older mom in your church? Choose carefully.

 

Also excellent advice (and thank you for the compliment to my parenting. Having been abused and in the foster care system myself, I question myself a lot.)

I have been asking around at church, but ultimately they all tell me to spank. I can't make that work. I'm not saying it can't work, I'm saying I'm not someone who should. That said, a professional might be a good idea.

Thanks again for all the gems of advice here! It's invaluable. :grouphug:

[Kirch]

I never did get back about this...we still haven't implemented hard-core 'boot camp' yet, but I've talked to dh and explained it to the kids, and it's been effective just as a possibility. :lol:

Seriously, though, I really like the idea of cheerful obedience, and I'm also trying to change the schedule up so that the little one has minimal opportunity to interrupt the school day. This has helped.

I mostly have issues with the attitude of my 6 year old. Here is an example of an everyday conversation we have. (sometimes we have this conversation several times)

Her: MOOOOM, I need help....MOOOOM!!! I NEED HELP!!!

Me: How would you ask me for help?

Her: *rolls eyes* Moooom, will you PLEEEASE help me?

Me: *sigh* OK, bring it here.

Her: No! You come here!

Me: I'm with your brother right now, so bring it in here if you need my help.

Her: NEVERMIND! *Throws down pencil or book* puts head in arms on the table.

I have various reactions. Either I will come in there and firmly tell her to sit up and tell me what she needs help with, which will be like pulling teeth, because, remember- she doesn't need help anymore...or I ignore it.

Often when she needs help, it's with something she's just not even paying attention to. Something she's already done 100 times.

This is frustrating. She's also mean with the other kids a lot and I have to step in quickly and diffuse because it can go from 0-hitting in .5 seconds.

I do recognize that spanking doesn't work for me, for whatever reason. I just don't seem to implement it properly, or have the right presence, or whatever...so I'm not comfortable with it, though since I don't know any other way to immediately get their attention, I still use it.

Could still use ideas. Please. :bigear:

 

This sounds really similar to my ds6. Sometimes he's the sweetest kid, but other times . . . :001_huh:

 

Anyway, we've been having success the last couple of weeks with being super-consistent and sending (or hauling) him to his room when he won't straighten up after a warning. He can come out as soon as he's ready to be respectful, kind (or at least not mean) to his brother, and/or obey what he's been told to do, whatever the issue is. His world pretty much stops until he changes his attitude or does what he's been told to do. We've had a couple of 20+ minute standoffs, but the time was well-spent, because life has been much more peaceful, and he generally responds when I remind him that he KNOWS I'll do what I say--"Remember what happened when . . . "

 

It's been a lot of work and frustrating at times (especially since dh has a harder time waiting him out, so a lot of it has fallen on me), but it's been worth it. And he seems to be a happier kid, too.

 

 

ETA--I've spent a lot of time in prayer, too--both for me (and dh) and for him. God is faithful!

Edited September 29, 2010 by Kirch

[angela in ohio]

I have been asking around at church, but ultimately they all tell me to spank. I can't make that work. I'm not saying it can't work, I'm saying I'm not someone who should. That said, a professional might be a good idea.

Thanks again for all the gems of advice here! It's invaluable. :grouphug:

 

Do they know your background? I have done some some coaching for moms of littles, and I do advocate spanking*, but if I knew that they didn't want to spank for whatever reason, I would help them find other ways to get things under control. Let them know it's not an option for you and see if one of them will help.

 

*About spanking: It doesn't work if you only do it once in a while when you are totally fed up. It needs to be part of a well-thought-out, consistent discipline plan, not something done when angry.

 

Heart of Anger is a good book, more practical and specific than Shepherding a Child's Heart, whjich I found a bit soft and vague at points. Also, Dr. S M Davis has a ministry, "Solve Family Problems," I think it's called. His tapes on anger and frustration are excellent. It was learning to remain calm myself that was the key to keeping a happy, obedient family.

 

I agree with others: tomato stake them, take away the Wii, make a list of consequences.

[Guest ME-Mommy]

I never did get back about this...we still haven't implemented hard-core 'boot camp' yet, but I've talked to dh and explained it to the kids, and it's been effective just as a possibility. :lol:

Seriously, though, I really like the idea of cheerful obedience, and I'm also trying to change the schedule up so that the little one has minimal opportunity to interrupt the school day. This has helped.

I mostly have issues with the attitude of my 6 year old. Here is an example of an everyday conversation we have. (sometimes we have this conversation several times)

Her: MOOOOM, I need help....MOOOOM!!! I NEED HELP!!!

Me: How would you ask me for help?

Her: *rolls eyes* Moooom, will you PLEEEASE help me?

Me: *sigh* OK, bring it here.

Her: No! You come here!

Me: I'm with your brother right now, so bring it in here if you need my help.

Her: NEVERMIND! *Throws down pencil or book* puts head in arms on the table.

I have various reactions. Either I will come in there and firmly tell her to sit up and tell me what she needs help with, which will be like pulling teeth, because, remember- she doesn't need help anymore...or I ignore it.

Often when she needs help, it's with something she's just not even paying attention to. Something she's already done 100 times.

This is frustrating. She's also mean with the other kids a lot and I have to step in quickly and diffuse because it can go from 0-hitting in .5 seconds.

I do recognize that spanking doesn't work for me, for whatever reason. I just don't seem to implement it properly, or have the right presence, or whatever...so I'm not comfortable with it, though since I don't know any other way to immediately get their attention, I still use it.

Could still use ideas. Please. :bigear:

 

Sorry -- this is short and sweet as I'm late heading out the door. :tongue_smilie:

 

Tomato stake...she is at your hip every waking hour until she can PROVE that she can behave/treat others kindly. First unkind word/action, she goes in timeout -- 1 minute for every year of age. If she doesn't stay, you add more time. She still has to complete her work when she's done serving time.

 

Add some physical chores if the timeout isn't effective.

[Peela]

The bit that stands out to me in the OP is that you feel that being a good mother is always putting your children ahead of yourself.

Yes, babies and small children need that kind of selfless devotion. They need to know that they are completely safe and important.

 

However, there comes a time when kids need to know that you are not just there for them. You are a person. If you always put them first, they will not learn to ever consider you.

I believe you must model to them that you respect and care for yourself as much as them. You are important too. Your love for them should not dominish your love for yourself, your ability to take good care for yourself.

Too many mothers are martyrs and that is not a healthy thing.

 

I say- put your own needs first. Its not selfish to put the oxygen mask on yourself first, is it? But we mums tend to forget to do that, and feel bad if we do because we are trained to sacrifice ourselves for everyone else. Well, guess what....they won't treat us very well if we do that!

[Parrothead]

I never did get back about this...we still haven't implemented hard-core 'boot camp' yet, but I've talked to dh and explained it to the kids, and it's been effective just as a possibility. :lol:

Seriously, though, I really like the idea of cheerful obedience, and I'm also trying to change the schedule up so that the little one has minimal opportunity to interrupt the school day. This has helped.

I mostly have issues with the attitude of my 6 year old. Here is an example of an everyday conversation we have. (sometimes we have this conversation several times)

Her: MOOOOM, I need help....MOOOOM!!! I NEED HELP!!!

Me: How would you ask me for help?

Her: *rolls eyes* Moooom, will you PLEEEASE help me?

Me: *sigh* OK, bring it here.

Her: No! You come here!

Me: I'm with your brother right now, so bring it in here if you need my help.

Her: NEVERMIND! *Throws down pencil or book* puts head in arms on the table.

I have various reactions. Either I will come in there and firmly tell her to sit up and tell me what she needs help with, which will be like pulling teeth, because, remember- she doesn't need help anymore...or I ignore it.

Often when she needs help, it's with something she's just not even paying attention to. Something she's already done 100 times.

This is frustrating. She's also mean with the other kids a lot and I have to step in quickly and diffuse because it can go from 0-hitting in .5 seconds.

I do recognize that spanking doesn't work for me, for whatever reason. I just don't seem to implement it properly, or have the right presence, or whatever...so I'm not comfortable with it, though since I don't know any other way to immediately get their attention, I still use it.

Could still use ideas. Please. :bigear:

Lines! I have no idea how old she is, but my first thought was she needs to write lines. It is counter-productive to send her to her room because she is doing school and can learn to push your buttons just to get sent to her room.

 

Instead of your reacting and her getting satisfaction or ignoring the behavior, immediately and calmly (as possible) tell her you expect 25 (or age appropriate) lines of "I will be respectful and patient when I need help." As soon as she is done model patience and politely helping.

 

You'll be surprised how much of the training of your kids is simply modeling the behavior you want.

 

If you can't think of an appropriate consequence immediately then either give the same consequence for all transgressions until you get your feet under you or send them to their room until you can think.

 

There have been a couple times that dd has gobsmacked me. I've sent her to her room for a few minutes while my head cleared. I was able to go in and calmly discuss consequences and why they are necessary.

[juelle]

I've read 'em all. And things were still going south. Lots of guilt and condemnation, never feeling good enough. A light went on for me this summer when my mom had me read 'The Blessing of a Skinned Knee'.

 

The author came back to her Jewish heritage while wrestling with the most common problem she saw in her family counseling career. Well-off, well-educated, well-spoken parents were frustrated by the very issues you describe, and which I see in my own very privileged kids. The author began to apply the Torah to the situations she dealt with, and saw real change.

 

There were a very few interpretations of Scripture with which I had a problem. The use of Jewish tradition doesn't bother me. And the fundamental idea of re-establishing an appropriate structure within our homes has been transformational for me, while freeing me from the constant feeling of falling short that I get from Christian parenting books.

:grouphug: