So I was talking with an acquaintance who happens to be a teacher...

[Barry Goldwater]

I don't find this funny (or true) in the slightest. My son attends public school and I feel grateful for the gifted and hard-working professional educators in his school and appreciate what they bring to his education.

 

The teacher bashing on this forum gets old. Some of you are really kidding yourselves about what is happening in highly functioning schools in terms of academic achievement. All the children in my son's Kindergarten class last year finished the year reading well, even those who started the year not reading at all. It was really impressive to witness.

 

And they learned to read phonetically. It was not just memorization of sight words as some would lead you to believe.

 

No one likes it when people make sweeping generalizations that demean and belittling homeschoolers, right? So what makes it OK to turn around and treat teachers with the same sort of generalized disrespect. That's not exactly living by the Golden Rule.

 

Teaching is an honorable profession and the words you quote are untrue and very unkind.

 

Bill

 

That's good, because I wasn't going for a laugh...You do know that Gatto was a NYC public school teacher for 26 years, Teacher of the Year in NYC twice, and Teacher of the Year for the State of NY once, right? I hold his opinion in fairly high regard and as fairly well informed. Note, that was HIS statement, not mine, BTW.

 

I agree that teaching is an honorable profession...there just isn't much teaching actually happening in the PSs. There is a lot of psycho-educational theoretical implementation going on, a lot of experimentation, but not much teaching...I'm glad you are finding your DC's educational experience satisfactory, but many of us on this board have found our PS options wanting.

[Teachin'Mine]

I thinc shez rite. Wit compooters it relly doznt mater how gud yur speeling iz. :)

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

She also told me that it isn't until the beginning of second grade that the children are even "assessed" for reading skills. Does this mean that PDG is going to languish away hearing "Chicka Chicka Boom Boom"-type read-alouds day after day for a year before she's allowed to actually demonstrate that she is reading 250 page books?

 

 

If it's anything like my poor ds1's experience, then yes. He was reading at about a 3rd-4th grade reading level going into kindergarten, and when I asked his teacher what they would do for his reading, she told me he shouldn't be at that level, yet, so nothing. Then in first grade, by which time he was reading at a 5th-6th grade level (not just oral fluency, but comprehension as well), they would only assess them up to a certain level, so he was stuck in a reading "group" of 19 kids and they read picture books together.

[Melinda in VT]

My kids' schools place high value on spelling. Weekly spelling tests are the norm. They start working on Greek and Roman roots in fifth grade, and that continues into high school.

 

Spelling is the area with the most differentiated teaching in our elementary school. Kids who are advanced spellers can work up, and there is a lot of support for kids who are below grade level in spelling.

[MBM]

Is this what is being taught in the university schools of education? I thought the whole-word learning versus (triumphant) phonics argument was settled. I guess not.

 

Yes, it's probably still taught in some of the teaching colleges.

[chiguirre]

All the children in my son's Kindergarten class last year finished the year reading well, even those who started the year not reading at all. It was really impressive to witness.

 

And they learned to read phonetically. It was not just memorization of sight words as some would lead you to believe.

 

 

 

If that's really true, I'd wonder where they stuck the special needs kids and the kids from less privileged backgrounds. There is no way that every autistic, dyslexic, ADD, or print deprived kid was reading at the end of K. In my personal experience, ps puts a lot of pressure on parents of kids with issues to place them in self-contained classes where they won't negatively affect the performance of the regular classrooms and where they will eventually be deemed too ineducable to count in the NCLB numbers. I've seen this over and over with friends' kids on the spectrum and every year more of us end up homeschooling.

[angela in ohio]

Some of you are really kidding yourselves about what is happening in highly functioning schools in terms of academic achievement. All the children in my son's Kindergarten class last year finished the year reading well, even those who started the year not reading at all. It was really impressive to witness.

 

And they learned to read phonetically. It was not just memorization of sight words as some would lead you to believe.

 

No one likes it when people make sweeping generalizations that demean and belittling homeschoolers, right? So what makes it OK to turn around and treat teachers with the same sort of generalized disrespect. That's not exactly living by the Golden Rule.

 

:iagree:

 

I have posted before about friends who sent their dc to school, assured by homeschool speakers and books that their dc were far ahead of the "nothing" they do in PS, only to find their dc horribly behind.

[angela in ohio]

It depends on the university and when you go. The phonics/ sight word pendulum swings back and forth and some universities are more practical and some are more "forefront of every new unproven method."

 

Dh did much of his graduate work in remediating reading through the use of intensive phonics. That was his choice, but he also had a few regular courses on phonics.

 

The current thinking, if I can generalize (and you really can't) is that a combination of phonics and whole language is best. If the school is no-phonics, they are behind the times. :001_smile:

[MBM]

It depends on the university and when you go. The phonics/ sight word pendulum swings back and forth and some universities are more practical and some are more "forefront of every new unproven method."

 

Dh did much of his graduate work in remediating reading through the use of intensive phonics. That was his choice, but he also had a few regular courses on phonics.

 

The current thinking, if I can generalize (and you really can't) is that a combination of phonics and whole language is best. If the school is no-phonics, they are behind the times. :001_smile:

 

Yes, my children were taught using a combination.

 

It seems changing ideologies is rarely a quick and easy process. It may be that the teacher who made the comment is holding on to beliefs she learned years ago when first pursuing her degree.

[Word Nerd]

My kids' schools place high value on spelling. Weekly spelling tests are the norm.

 

I would argue that giving kids a new list of words each week and quizzing them on Fridays isn't teaching spelling—which is why I'm also going through All About Spelling with my PS kids. You can learn to spell a lot of words by memorizing them and using them in sentences and other exercises, but learning the rules and conventions of spelling as well as the exceptions needs to happen as well.

[Mandy in TN]

If test scores can be correlated to the socio-economic group of the area, then what does that say? An affluent area will not only both demand and attract top teachers but it will also have parents with more education who work with their children and can afford outside help if they decide it is necessary. Do good test scores say something about the scope and sequence of the public schools in a given area or do they say something about the socio-economic group that attends a particular school?

 

I love inner city and low income ps success stories, but they are not the norm.

 

I have a friend for whom homeschooling is not an option. Her kids attend ps and are receiving a solid education not because the ps is wonderful or because every teacher is wonderful, but because she puts effort into it. She is involved in their education both at school and at home. A traditional classroom should be viewed as a tool that helps a parent educate their children. Classrooms are not a place to put children x number of hours each day so that a parent doesn't have to interact with their education.

 

To the OP- I am sorry that this teacher/school isn't a good fit. Try to view this teacher like curriculum. Some curriculum works better/ is a better fit than others. Whether you use homeschooling curriculum or a traditional classroom you will need to tweak it to fit your child. Ultimately, you and your dh are the ones that will have the greatest impact on your child's education.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[EmilyK]

If you want an inspiring look at modern school practices as implemented by optimal teachers and parents read Raising Lifelong Learners by Lucy Calkins. When my oldest was in public school it really helped understand why they were doing some things.

 

I completely agree about spelling and math basics. That said, the schools I've seen in some ways want that to be taught by the parents. What I saw was that there was an emphasis on "guess and go" spelling in K and 1. This was to get kids writing since apparently the research shows that many kids learn reading best in conjunction with writing. The spelling and grammar is supposed to improve as they get older, but mostly through group lectures and then homework which is supposed to be reviewed with the parents. My kids did have spelling tests in 4th and 5th, but at 10 words a week it isn't like they covered all the water. Same with math facts. I've had to drill my kids at home since they don't spend a lot of time (or any) going over them in class, but they are expected to know them.

 

I'm old enough to remember lots of spelling and grammar and math facts in my classroom. Thing was, we didn't do that much else. I do have to say (with all my beefs with PS, and trust me there are many) that they do some cool stuff I didn't do til much later in my academic career. My son did in depth written character studies in 3rd grade that were something I didn't do until junior high. I frankly don't remember much writing at all until 7th; just work on spelling, grammar etc.

 

There's no way PS can compare academically to WTM homeschool. I'm not sure whether they are using the time they have wisely but I'm not sure they did in the 60s either -- it was just different. I do think if they could count on all parents to provide a baseline of reading and talking with their kids, limiting screen time etc, they could make the time much more productive in the schools.

[Spy Car]

 

Bill, your kiddo goes to a great school. Many kids don't. When we are talking about sucky schools and sucky teachers, we are talking about the schools and teachers that suck, not the ones that don't. We all know there are exceptions to every rule, right? Your son's teachers are an exception to the PS teachers suck rule, and I'll bet you know that not all teachers are honorable in their delivery.

 

Rosie

 

Rosie, there are some bad teachers and bad schools out there. Who would deny it?

 

But there are (I imagine) some pretty bad homeschooling situations as well. And when homeschooling parents here feel they've been tarred with same brush as non-schoolers by some comment from a member of John Q Public then feelings get hurt and there is often a long thread with venting and commiseration from other home schoolers. Which I get. Not one likes that sort of thing. These kind of statements cause justifiably hurt feelings.

 

But similar comments directed at teachers and schools are all too often the norm.

 

My mother was a wonderful and talented elementary school teacher. I saw the dedication she put into her profession, and how hard she worked preparing for the classroom and the efforts she made to give children a great education. After being retired for over two decades she still gets letters from former students thanking her for being a great teacher.

 

And she was far from alone. My son does go to a particularly good public school. No doubt about that. But our large circle of friends have children in a great many of the public schools in the area and, believe me, schools, education and teachers are a big topic of discussion. And most parents we know are pretty amazed by the quality of the teachers and the learning environments they've help create.

 

Are there bad schools and bad teachers? As I've said, no doubt. Just as there are some bad home schools. Image the hurt feelings and anger if some public figure called homeschool teaching a job for the unemployable? I think people here would justifiably feel raw and defensive.

 

What is hateful to us, we should not do to others. That's all I'm saying.

 

Bill

Edited September 14, 2010 by Spy Car

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Spy Car, are there no education forums for parents who send their kids to public school?

 

I do not wish to make you feel unwelcome. I'm glad you are a member here. I do wonder why you spend so much time (7300+ posts) on a homeschooling board.

 

If you wander into the homeschool teachers' lounge on a weekday you might hear what is on our minds. Prejudices come out as opinions and experiences are shared.

 

Isn't that normal?

 

I don't think you'd be overly impressed with the conversations in a public school teachers' forum, either. Not because they are horrible people, any more than we are, but because their own prejudices, stereotypes, opinions, and experiences would come out in their in-house chats and not everything would be tolerant or complimentary.

 

Just like here.

[Spy Car]

Spy Car, are there no education forums for parents who send their kids to public school?

 

I do not wish to make you feel unwelcome. I'm glad you are a member here. I do wonder why you spend so much time (7300+ posts) on a homeschooling board.

 

I'm here because Susan Wise Bauer graciously created a forum for people who are interested in Classical Education at Home. And that includes me.

 

My wife and I are very involved and interested in our son's education because believe it is the responsibility of parents to educate their children (not just the school's) and that the day is not over when the bell rings.

 

If you wander into the homeschool teachers' lounge on a weekday you might hear what is on our minds. Prejudices come out as opinions and experiences are shared.

 

Isn't that normal?

 

I don't think you'd be overly impressed with the conversations in a public school teachers' forum, either. Not because they are horrible people, any more than we are, but because their own prejudices, stereotypes, opinions, and experiences would come out in their in-house chats and not everything would be tolerant or complimentary.

 

Just like here.

 

Actually, I've spent a good deal of time with our school's teachers and haven't heard any homeschool bashing. As a matter of fact (my favorite teacher up there, and one I've spent a great deal of time talking with) is a home-schooler.

 

I've asked him about the attitudes of fellow teachers, and he's told me they have been very positive. And I know I've heard nothing but interest and support for the "After-schooling" we've done, including having teachers ask to review my "home-schooling" materials.

 

Good teachers respect education, and are not so small minded as you might think.

 

Bill

Edited September 14, 2010 by Spy Car

[happyhomemaker25]

Both of my cousins have girls in 2nd grade at two different schools here in town and the teachers are not ALLOWED to mark a word that is misspelled at all. Even just circling it so the child knows it is misspelled. Of course they don't teach handwriting at the schools either. :glare: They don't really need it anymore because of computers... :001_huh:

[sweetbasil]

Both of my cousins have girls in 2nd grade at two different schools here in town and the teachers are not ALLOWED to mark a word that is misspelled at all. Even just circling it so the child knows it is misspelled. Of course they don't teach handwriting at the schools either. :glare: They don't really need it anymore because of computers... :001_huh:

 

Our neighbor pulled her DC out of the California public school they were attending for this very reason. The school policy was that incorrect spelling was not to be corrected because it might "damage the students' self-esteem."

 

I know (assume?) that's not common, but the simple fact that it exists anywhere is troubling!

 

I have several friends who are public school teachers in some of both the worst and the best districts in the country. Hearing their stories (about both student behavior, parental behavior, and actual education) would push nearly anyone to homeschool (although my choice to HS has nothing to do with the quality of public education).

 

A good friend teaches K in one of the "best" PS districts in the country. Every year she's given a new educational "fad" to follow, to the exclusion of the others. One year I was amazed to hear that the focus was handwriting - she was instructed to meet certain handwriting goals with 5 year olds, to the exclusion of all other subjects. This wasn't implied by the administration, it was implicitly stated.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Spy Car, are there no education forums for parents who send their kids to public school?

 

I do not wish to make you feel unwelcome. I'm glad you are a member here. I do wonder why you spend so much time (7300+ posts) on a homeschooling board.

 

If you wander into the homeschool teachers' lounge on a weekday you might hear what is on our minds. Prejudices come out as opinions and experiences are shared.

 

Isn't that normal?

 

I don't think you'd be overly impressed with the conversations in a public school teachers' forum, either. Not because they are horrible people, any more than we are, but because their own prejudices, stereotypes, opinions, and experiences would come out in their in-house chats and not everything would be tolerant or complimentary.

 

Just like here.

 

My goodness, there are many afterschoolers here who are truly interested in classical education and who are very involved in their children's education. I myself have become an afterschooler this year;) I would hope that I am still welcome here.

[Word Nerd]

Spy Car, are there no education forums for parents who send their kids to public school?

 

I do not wish to make you feel unwelcome. I'm glad you are a member here. I do wonder why you spend so much time (7300+ posts) on a homeschooling board.

 

If you wander into the homeschool teachers' lounge on a weekday you might hear what is on our minds. Prejudices come out as opinions and experiences are shared.

 

Isn't that normal?

 

I don't think you'd be overly impressed with the conversations in a public school teachers' forum, either. Not because they are horrible people, any more than we are, but because their own prejudices, stereotypes, opinions, and experiences would come out in their in-house chats and not everything would be tolerant or complimentary.

 

Just like here.

 

Look to the top of your monitor:

 

Parents' Forum General Board For general questions about classical education methods, teaching techniques, readiness, supplemental activities, field trips, assessments, frustrations, online resources, etc. or just for hanging out and chatting!

 

This forum applies just as much to me now as an afterschooler/hybrid schooler as it did when I was a real, pure-blood homeschooler.

[BikeBookBread]

Yikes--

 

I just popped back and read through this thread.

 

What hath my original question wrought? I'm sorry it has digressed so far. I had no intention of bashing school teachers. I just wanted to know if teaching schools were teaching that spelling and phonics were no longer important.

 

Spy Car, I always welcome your perspective. Please continue to post here. You are most-definitely welcome on this board.

[Renee in NC]

Both of my cousins have girls in 2nd grade at two different schools here in town and the teachers are not ALLOWED to mark a word that is misspelled at all. Even just circling it so the child knows it is misspelled. Of course they don't teach handwriting at the schools either. :glare: They don't really need it anymore because of computers... :001_huh:

 

The school my dc attend (just since yesterday) does teach handwriting (using HWOT) and they do teach phonics as well (from what I have seen.) I definitely don't agree with all their methods, but I wouldn't say they aren't teaching the subjects at all.

[lionfamily1999]

That's good, because I wasn't going for a laugh...You do know that Gatto was a NYC public school teacher for 26 years, Teacher of the Year in NYC twice, and Teacher of the Year for the State of NY once, right? I hold his opinion in fairly high regard and as fairly well informed. Note, that was HIS statement, not mine, BTW.

 

I agree that teaching is an honorable profession...there just isn't much teaching actually happening in the PSs. There is a lot of psycho-educational theoretical implementation going on, a lot of experimentation, but not much teaching...I'm glad you are finding your DC's educational experience satisfactory, but many of us on this board have found our PS options wanting.

:iagree: My sister and I were chatting about this the other day. Her sons are all in her local ps and she loves it, but she's found that many of their new teachers (meaning those fresh out of school) are, in her opinion, going through the experiment stage just like new parents. They're spending much of their time trying to find out what will work and not really getting anywhere as far as teaching their subject.

 

My neighbor is a 5th grade math teacher and she blames many of the ps problems on inconsistency. Even if the classes are PLANNED to work together in a constant flow, the teachers are different. Thus, in first grade the teacher prefers 'new' math, in second you have a teacher that believes in memorization, and when she finally gets them (a Singapore fan) she has to reteach most concepts so that they can go forward in the style she prefers. Even assuming that all those teachers are great teachers, just their different styles cause bumps and road blocks on the road to education.

 

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

Bill (SpyCar) isn't your son in a private school?

[happyhomemaker25]

The school my dc attend (just since yesterday) does teach handwriting (using HWOT) and they do teach phonics as well (from what I have seen.) I definitely don't agree with all their methods, but I wouldn't say they aren't teaching the subjects at all.

 

 

This is just the info the moms were given when they asked.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

My goodness, there are many afterschoolers here who are truly interested in classical education and who are very involved in their children's education. I myself have become an afterschooler this year;) I would hope that I am still welcome here.

 

As I said in the post that you quoted,

 

I do not wish to make you feel unwelcome. I'm glad you are a member here.

 

Also, as Spy Car said, this is SWB's forum and she welcomes you, so what does it matter what I think?

 

My only point is that public school parents should not be surprised or offended when homeschoolers share their very real experiences with America's broken public education system.

 

We don't make this stuff up about teachers or schools. We've rearranged our whole entire lives to be able to homeschool because we have no other options. Our schools are not good enough. Our teachers, if they are good teachers, move to other school districts at the first opportunity (or quit teaching altogether) and I do not blame them.

 

If your kids' school

 

1. teaches real English lessons instead of having the children memorize Dolch lists, use invented spelling, and never read a whole book,

2. teaches real mathematics instead of Chicago math,

3. employs teachers who are capable (no illiterate second grade teachers, no gym coaches teaching algebra),

4. does not suspend an average of two students per day for violence and/or drugs,

5. does not see 2/3 of the students drop out before they graduate,

6. still has recess, gym class, a library, and playground equipment,

 

then give thanks to your deity or the universe or whatever you thank, and please realize that you are not living the reality that most Americans face.

 

Don't you realize that homeschool message boards are the only places we even talk about these things? Don't you realize that everyone around us pretends that the schools are fine until that final straw that makes them pull their child out?

 

I can't think of one public school parent or teacher IRL who knows why I homeschool my children. I will never tell them, because I do not wish to discourage the teachers or foist my opinions on parents.

 

Don't ask me not to talk about the severe problems in American public education on this board.

[LG Gone Wild]

:iagree: My sister and I were chatting about this the other day. Her sons are all in her local ps and she loves it, but she's found that many of their new teachers (meaning those fresh out of school) are, in her opinion, going through the experiment stage just like new parents. They're spending much of their time trying to find out what will work and not really getting anywhere as far as teaching their subject.

 

My neighbor is a 5th grade math teacher and she blames many of the ps problems on inconsistency. Even if the classes are PLANNED to work together in a constant flow, the teachers are different. Thus, in first grade the teacher prefers 'new' math, in second you have a teacher that believes in memorization, and when she finally gets them (a Singapore fan) she has to reteach most concepts so that they can go forward in the style she prefers. Even assuming that all those teachers are great teachers, just their different styles cause bumps and road blocks on the road to education.

 

 

:iagree: How many of us are guilty of that? ;)

 

 

Along with other things that are problematic in school systems....

[Perry]

eh. nm.

[Spy Car]

 

Spy Car, I always welcome your perspective. Please continue to post here. You are most-definitely welcome on this board.

 

:seeya:

 

 

:iagree: How many of us are guilty of that? ;)

 

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Bill

[lionfamily1999]

:iagree: How many of us are guilty of that? ;)

 

 

Along with other things that are problematic in school systems....

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

BUT teehee

 

One person can create a smoother road, especially when they stop reading threads on curriculum :lol:. A collection of varying people that do not do their work together (iow, work as individuals 99% of the time) will be hard pressed to do the same.

 

I thought it was interesting to hear a ps teacher offer that as her opinion on the problems in ps. She even had a way to fix it... year round school and teachers teaching subjects rather than classes.

 

I haven't argued with her on it ;) but, I imagine having kids transitioning for every subject causes some problems too.

[bluemongoose]

nm

Edited September 14, 2010 by bluemongoose

[Word Nerd]

 

My only point is that public school parents should not be surprised or offended when homeschoolers share their very real experiences with America's broken public education system.

 

 

We aren't! I have no problem whatsoever with people sharing their negative experiences and specific examples of poor teaching and poor schools. The problem is taking those negative examples and making sweeping generalizations about all public schools and teachers—not unlike when Suzie Homeschooler's sister-in-law expresses her distaste for homeschooling based on her experience with her homeschooling neighbor so-and-so, whose kids run all over the neighborhood and can't even read.

[Spy Car]

My only point is that public school parents should not be surprised or offended when homeschoolers share their very real experiences with America's broken public education system.

 

There is a great deal of difference between discussing legitimate issues with public schools, or discussing negative experiences, and putting out quotes calling the teaching profession a government subsidy of the unemployable. I'm sure you must see the difference?

 

We don't make this stuff up about teachers or schools. We've rearranged our whole entire lives to be able to homeschool because we have no other options. Our schools are not good enough. Our teachers, if they are good teachers, move to other school districts at the first opportunity (or quit teaching altogether) and I do not blame them.

 

I have no doubt a good number of parents on this board (although far from all) are home-schooling because of either negative experiences with a public school, a perception that they would have a problem with the local public school, or because they felt their children's needs would not be met my the local school.

 

I happen to admire parents who care enough for their children to educate them at home rather than sending them to schools they believe are inadequate.

 

I'm sure parents who are up late at night teaching themselves Latin, re-learning Math, and otherwise rearranging their lives (and working very hard) to give their quality education at home would feel rightfully upset being equated by some quotation with people whose idea of "home education" is watching Jerry Springer and eating bon-bons while their kids play video games. It's insulting.

 

Don't you realize that homeschool message boards are the only places we even talk about these things? Don't you realize that everyone around us pretends that the schools are fine until that final straw that makes them pull their child out?

 

Not everyone is "pretending" their schools are fine. There are highly-functioning public schools, failing public schools, and a whole range in between.

 

I am grateful about the situation we find ourselves in. And my wife (who is the very hard-working president of the parents organization at our school) and I put a great deal of time and effort into supporting our teachers and our school. We don't take a good school for grated.

 

Don't ask me not to talk about the severe problems in American public education on this board.

 

No one (me included) has suggested not discussing problems in the American public school system. But I find slandering the entire teaching profession to be as hateful as the ignorant and unfair insults that are sometimes aimed at parents home-school their children. KWIM?

 

Bill

Edited September 14, 2010 by Spy Car

[*Inna*]

This is the very reason that we took our children out of school. Not the spelling but the attitude to learning. The headmaster of the school, who was also the teacher of one of my kids told us ( even wrote it in the school newsletter to parents) that in today's age, knowledge isn't important at all, that all student's need to know is how to access knowledge on the computer.

Wow...:001_huh:

[Barry Goldwater]

Teacher bashing is a sport for some, as is homeschool bashing. Both show a lack of something.

Sometimes I imagine scenarios in which those that make such sweeping, negative statements could be a part of--- suppose their child marries someone who went to public school, or who is employed as a ps teacher, or their lovely neighbor speaks of the great things happening in the local ps. Does it ever cause a slight twinge, a little feeling of discomfort? Do they make such statements in public settings, or only in places where they feel more anonymous and safe?

I think some people wear their blinders in ignorance, while others strap them on happily and duct tape them in place.

 

That's be:

Nope.

Yup.

and Nope, again. I feel safe in my opinions regardless of who knows them.

[Melinda in VT]

I would argue that giving kids a new list of words each week and quizzing them on Fridays isn't teaching spelling—which is why I'm also going through All About Spelling with my PS kids. You can learn to spell a lot of words by memorizing them and using them in sentences and other exercises, but learning the rules and conventions of spelling as well as the exceptions needs to happen as well.

 

The lists aren't random. The spelling lessons each week focus on a rule or pattern.

 

The spelling curriculum seems pretty similar to the one I used when I was homeschooling.

[Rosie_0801]

:iagree: My sister and I were chatting about this the other day. Her sons are all in her local ps and she loves it, but she's found that many of their new teachers (meaning those fresh out of school) are, in her opinion, going through the experiment stage just like new parents. They're spending much of their time trying to find out what will work and not really getting anywhere as far as teaching their subject.

 

That's to be expected for new teachers, isn't it? One of the reasons my hubby quit teaching was he was expected to work as though he had 20 years experience on his first, second and third year out. Funnily enough, he didn't make it to his fourth. While I quite understand people not wanting their kids in beginning teacher's classes, they have to start somewhere. If they are so woefully unprepared that their classes can't progress, even slowly, while they are figuring things out, then there is something really wrong with their education isn't there? I guess it is a vicious circle.

 

I wonder if the Steiner way of doing things, having the teacher move up a year level with their class helps with this. Perhaps teacher quality would be improved if beginning teachers went through the elementary and middle school cycle once before upgrading their qualification to a specialization? Obviously that wouldn't be an attractive idea to everyone, but would it improve things overall?

 

Rosie

[lionfamily1999]

That's to be expected for new teachers, isn't it? One of the reasons my hubby quit teaching was he was expected to work as though he had 20 years experience on his first, second and third year out. Funnily enough, he didn't make it to his fourth. While I quite understand people not wanting their kids in beginning teacher's classes, they have to start somewhere. If they are so woefully unprepared that their classes can't progress, even slowly, while they are figuring things out, then there is something really wrong with their education isn't there? I guess it is a vicious circle.

 

I wonder if the Steiner way of doing things, having the teacher move up a year level with their class helps with this. Perhaps teacher quality would be improved if beginning teachers went through the elementary and middle school cycle once before upgrading their qualification to a specialization? Obviously that wouldn't be an attractive idea to everyone, but would it improve things overall?

 

Rosie

I'm not sure. Ds was removed from school because of a fourth year teacher that they were still trying to find a niche for. He'd done special ed for awhile, K, Pre-K, and then 2nd grade. Last year they bumped him to 3rd, this year he's in 4th. Ime, the teachers that bounce around like that are the ones that have the most problems.

 

I wish they could do an apprentice year where they shadow and "aid" a more mature (preferably beloved) teacher. Who knows, though, that could just cause problems for them both ;)

 

I think having them stick with one subject for multiple grades sounds good, but there has to be problems with that that I'm not thinking of ;).

 

I've had WONDERFUL first year teachers, but I've seen some that really tanked. The only difference I've noticed is in consistency. The teacher that comes in with everything ready and doesn't change their methods twice in one week has a more settled classroom... Really, though, I think there are so many factors into what screws up the public school systems here that the teachers are just one issue among many and even the most sterling example of an educator would flounder.

[Rosie_0801]

I'm not sure. Ds was removed from school because of a fourth year teacher that they were still trying to find a niche for. He'd done special ed for awhile, K, Pre-K, and then 2nd grade. Last year they bumped him to 3rd, this year he's in 4th. Ime, the teachers that bounce around like that are the ones that have the most problems.

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised. How would you get your head in the right space before you were shunted off to some place else? doing pre-K, then K, then First, etc would be different, especially if you were continuing with the same kids. You'd get a realistic idea on where kids are at different ages.

 

Anyway, I'm not the minister for education, so I don't suppose I'll get to find out.

 

:)

Rosie

[lionfamily1999]

I wouldn't be surprised. How would you get your head in the right space before you were shunted off to some place else? doing pre-K, then K, then First, etc would be different, especially if you were continuing with the same kids. You'd get a realistic idea on where kids are at different ages.

 

Anyway, I'm not the minister for education, so I don't suppose I'll get to find out.

 

:)

Rosie

It may be a local thing, but here that's considered the sign of a bad teacher. They get moved around, because too many parents grumble, but they don't want to fire someone and go through the trouble of hiring someone else.

 

Dd had a teacher (I liked this one) that had been moved all over the place before teaching dd. That was her last year, they said she simply did not fit in our school system. She was a little edgy (tatoo on her lower back and a love of low rise jeans with thongs), but other than her appearance, I thought she was FANTASTIC. Ds's problem teacher dresses well, but he isn't able to handle children.

[Slartibartfast]

There are so many rules that really need to be learned that a spell checker wouldn't correct!

 

 

I am standing there in the bank changing my outfit on a game and someone comes up to me

 

"Your a noob!"

 

"You mean 'You're a noob'"

 

"whut"

 

"'Your' is possessive, 'you're' is a contraction for 'you are' so you should really say "you're a noob'

 

"stfu!"

 

*sigh*

[Rosie_0801]

It may be a local thing, but here that's considered the sign of a bad teacher. They get moved around, because too many parents grumble, but they don't want to fire someone and go through the trouble of hiring someone else.

 

 

It's not a local thing. Or if it is, it's local here too ;) Being a dud isn't the only reason to be shifting around like that though. We learned that a teacher coming from the art room to a regular classroom is to be avoided. It seems they were put in the art room for a reason...

 

Rosie

[treestarfae]

If your kids' school

 

1. teaches real English lessons instead of having the children memorize Dolch lists, use invented spelling, and never read a whole book,

2. teaches real mathematics instead of Chicago math,

 

 

I agree with this. Can you explain why Dolch lists and Chicago math aren't good enough for people unfamiliar with this method?

[Michelle O. in MO]

So what should take the place of spelling in the PS curriculum, computer skills? For early elementary students? :001_huh:

 

I was talking with a friend of mine the other day. She was very upset because she had received the daily class schedule from her daughter's second grade teacher. The school decided to x out PE and replace it with computer time. Why do second graders need computer time? :001_huh:

[lionfamily1999]

It's not a local thing. Or if it is, it's local here too ;) Being a dud isn't the only reason to be shifting around like that though. We learned that a teacher coming from the art room to a regular classroom is to be avoided. It seems they were put in the art room for a reason...

 

Rosie

:lol:

[unsinkable]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

BUT teehee

 

One person can create a smoother road, especially when they stop reading threads on curriculum :lol:. A collection of varying people that do not do their work together (iow, work as individuals 99% of the time) will be hard pressed to do the same.

 

I thought it was interesting to hear a ps teacher offer that as her opinion on the problems in ps. She even had a way to fix it... year round school and teachers teaching subjects rather than classes.

 

I haven't argued with her on it ;) but, I imagine having kids transitioning for every subject causes some problems too.

 

How convenient that her solution would raise her pay. :lol:

[Storm Bay]

I don't find this funny (or true) in the slightest. My son attends public school and I feel grateful for the gifted and hard-working professional educators in his school and appreciate what they bring to his education.

 

The teacher bashing on this forum gets old. Some of you are really kidding yourselves about what is happening in highly functioning schools in terms of academic achievement. All the children in my son's Kindergarten class last year finished the year reading well, even those who started the year not reading at all. It was really impressive to witness.

 

And they learned to read phonetically. It was not just memorization of sight words as some would lead you to believe.

 

No one likes it when people make sweeping generalizations that demean and belittling homeschoolers, right? So what makes it OK to turn around and treat teachers with the same sort of generalized disrespect. That's not exactly living by the Golden Rule.

 

Teaching is an honorable profession and the words you quote are untrue and very unkind.

 

Bill

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: While I have many gripes with the school system overall and with our local one, my eldest had only great teachers during her three years in ps. Sure, there are some terrible teachers out there and some mediocre ones, too. Her needs were not adequately addressed, but that wasn't the teachers' faults. There are also great teachers whose hands are tied because they are told what materials they have to use and how to teach things.

 

Honestly, it takes a lot of ability to be able to handle a classroom well and then to teach on top of it. I understand why a teacher can't teach well to every level and to every learning style in that kind of setting. Also, I've seen some poor examples of homeschooling as well, not to mention mediocre. I fully understand why so many universities/colleges aren't going to accept just a parent's grades or a parent's designation of honours without proof.

[Storm Bay]

 

No one (me included) has suggested not discussing problems in the American public school system. But I find slandering the entire teaching profession to be as hateful as the ignorant and unfair insults that are sometimes aimed at parents home-school their children. KWIM?

 

Bill

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Storm Bay]

There are so many rules that really need to be learned that a spell checker wouldn't correct!

 

 

I am standing there in the bank changing my outfit on a game and someone comes up to me

 

"Your a noob!"

 

"You mean 'You're a noob'"

 

"whut"

 

"'Your' is possessive, 'you're' is a contraction for 'you are' so you should really say "you're a noob'

 

"stfu!"

 

*sigh*

:D:lol:

 

My problem is that I used to have all of that down cold and without mistake. However, over the past 5 years or so sometimes I mix up homophones when I type and it's quite shocking.

 

I've never heard of the word noob.

[angela in ohio]

I wish they could do an apprentice year where they shadow and "aid" a more mature (preferably beloved) teacher. Who knows, though, that could just cause problems for them both ;).

 

They usually do. Before graduating, you do a semester of student teaching in a classroom, then in many schools you spend your fist year in a mentoring program with a more experienced teacher.

 

Unfortunately, it really comes down to the fact that some people can teach and some can't. It's the fact that no one wants to acknowledge. No amount of mentoring or coaching can make someone great if they just don't have it. They can become passable with a lot of effort, but who's going to put in that much effort for little pay and no respect? Not many people, expecially when the union tells them they don't have to.

 

Many people go into teaching because they are inspired or called to it, and they make great teachers, but many just opt into the path of least resistance ("How hard can it be?") and they are terrible. I had a great education because my mom joined the PTA, met the other parents and teachers, and requested me out of any lackluster teacher's class each year. Other students in the same school may have had a bad education. It's hard to generalize even within the same school.

 

(Disclaimer: I blame the unions and the teacher colleges for the ills of our schools, followed closely by a culture that doesn't value intelligence and parents who just don't care.)

[mcconnellboys]

No way! Phonics is still a bad word in waaaay too many places. Most commonn sense things are, LOL.....

[gardenmom5]

At least 12 years ago, one of the dad's in my daughter's public school had the exact same conversation with a teacher - only it was about MATH. "It doesn't matter if they get the right answer . . . ":ohmy:

 

 

The dad's response put an end to that nonsense - "I'm an engineer, if the math is wrong, the plane with crash." (NASA knows all about that.)

 

 

These younger teachers only know what the prof's have taught them - which isn't much. (and critical thinking is not on the list of subjects covered.)