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So I was talking with an acquaintance who happens to be a teacher...


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....today after school. I shared with her how I think I may have offended PDG's 1st grade teacher asking why phonics weren't taught in the school system in which we are enrolled.

 

So I asked this lady, who just finished her Master's project and received her teaching license/certification to teach elementary school, why she thought phonics wasn't taught; I mentioned that proper spelling skills were important to me.

 

This was her answer (paraphrased, but pretty accurate): Well, with the advent of computers and other resources there are so many more ways to know how a word is spelled. Knowing how to spell isn't that important anymore. :blink: :confused1:

 

I steered the conversation away from the topic, as my blood pressure was rising and I didn't want to insert my foot into my mouth.

 

Am I alone in my thinking that this is RIDICULOUS? Is this what is being taught in the university schools of education? I thought the whole-word learning versus (triumphant) phonics argument was settled. I guess not.

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Wait. She isn't a teacher yet is she? From what you wrote it sounds like she was a student who is just now heading into the actual field of teaching (just got her certificate to teach). She doesn't have a clue yet.

 

My husband would probably have laughed. He has taught first grade for 10+ years (taught ps for over 15 yrs). He does teach phonics and phonics-based spelling and wouldn't dream of doing it any other way. His curriculum, luckily is phonics-heavy, but even when it wasn't he added it in.

 

But ultimately the decision isn't up to the teachers. They have to teach the approved curriculum. Publishers sell a new bill of goods to districts all the time. Hey, they want to make money so phonics is out and whole language is in. In another 5 years they'll switch again, point to some slip-shod research, and get the districts to buy all new books.

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Wait. She isn't a teacher yet is she? From what you wrote it sounds like she was a student who is just now heading into the actual field of teaching (just got her certificate to teach). She doesn't have a clue yet.

 

She is subbing in elementary school. Apparently she did her Master's course-work about 10 years ago, had children, and in the last year or so did her practicum and was certified. She has 3 school-aged children, is a PTA officer, REALLY involved in the local school, etc. She's tapped-in. She's not a novice.

 

She also told me that it isn't until the beginning of second grade that the children are even "assessed" for reading skills. Does this mean that PDG is going to languish away hearing "Chicka Chicka Boom Boom"-type read-alouds day after day for a year before she's allowed to actually demonstrate that she is reading 250 page books?

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Well, with the advent of computers and other resources there are so many more ways to know how a word is spelled. Knowing how to spell isn't that important anymore.

 

This person is wrong. Spelling is important. Incorrect spelling, grammar and punctuation reflects poorly on the person or business using it.

 

But it does seem that many people have bought into the weak opinion that spelling is not important because people can use spell checkers. I have heard that from the same people who state that memorizing math facts is not necessary any longer because people can use calculators or Excel spreadsheets.

 

What they are ignoring is that spell check only checks spelling, not context. Spell check won't always be accurate. A student still needs to be able to spell.

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...

Am I alone in my thinking that this is RIDICULOUS? Is this what is being taught in the university schools of education? I thought the whole-word learning versus (triumphant) phonics argument was settled. I guess not.

 

No

 

Yes- at least that is how it was taught to me when I was at the university school of ed. I got in trouble for saying "whole language" sucks and they should be bringing phonics back in. I was not very good at playing the part of a sheeple :lol:.

 

No, it is not settled, and many public schools are still opposed to phonics.

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She is subbing in elementary school. Apparently she did her Master's course-work about 10 years ago, had children, and in the last year or so did her practicum and was certified. She has 3 school-aged children, is a PTA officer, REALLY involved in the local school, etc. She's tapped-in. She's not a novice.

 

She also told me that it isn't until the beginning of second grade that the children are even "assessed" for reading skills. Does this mean that PDG is going to languish away hearing "Chicka Chicka Boom Boom"-type read-alouds day after day for a year before she's allowed to actually demonstrate that she is reading 250 page books?

 

WHAT? I don't see how this is even possible. My husband gives one-on-one reading assessments a minimum of 5 times throughout the year. (first week, end of 1st quarter, end of 2nd quarter, end of 3rd quarter, end of school year). Either this lady is nuts or your district is nuts.

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[quote name=BikeBookBread;2031309

This was her answer (paraphrased' date=' but pretty accurate): Well, with the advent of computers and other resources there are so many more ways to know how a word is spelled. Knowing how to spell isn't that important anymore. :blink: :confused1:

 

[iQUOTE]

 

This is the very reason that we took our children out of school. Not the spelling but the attitude to learning. The headmaster of the school, who was also the teacher of one of my kids told us ( even wrote it in the school newsletter to parents) that in today's age, knowledge isn't important at all, that all student's need to know is how to access knowledge on the computer.

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This person is wrong. Spelling is important. Incorrect spelling, grammar and punctuation reflects poorly on the person or business using it.

 

:iagree:

 

But it does seem that many people have bought into the weak opinion that spelling is not important because people can use spell checkers. I have heard that from the same people who state that memorizing math facts is not necessary any longer because people can use calculators or Excel spreadsheets.

 

This view drove me *crazy* as a copy editor. I would circle things and people would say "oh, I'll just spell-check it." NO! Spell check will NOT catch that you meant coat instead of goat. It won't!!

 

My why-you-need-math story: I was working a new job and after my second paycheck I went to the manager and said, "my check is not adding up to what it should; can you explain the process you use in determining hours worked?" He started explaining and I realized he was adding the minutes and carrying the number into the hours column. I stopped him and said "no, you cannot do it that way!" He said "yes, let me show you!" I said "no, you are doing it the WRONG WAY." I explained that there are only 60 minutes in an hour, but he was adding it in such a way that I had to work 100 minutes in order to get paid for an hour. Ugh!!!! You need basic math skills, people, even if it's to tell when people are cheating you (on accident or purpose).

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This was her answer (paraphrased, but pretty accurate): Well, with the advent of computers and other resources there are so many more ways to know how a word is spelled. Knowing how to spell isn't that important anymore. :blink: :confused1:

 

 

I would calmly ask if this was her impression, or if there is research that the public isn't aware of, or where this thought is coming from in general. I'm really, really curious. I predict, if this is true, there will be a spelling wars website similar to the math wars website.

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Believe it or not, Parent/Teacher Conferences should be in about 6 weeks. If you can hold on that long, you should have your questions written down so that you can make the most of your time with the teacher. If you cannot hold on that long, hmmmm, those kind of questions are 'discouraged' at Back to School night, but that has never stopped parents from treating that night as an opportunity for a parent-teacher conference.

 

I understand your consternation.......I had a similar situation with DD11's Kindergarten teacher.

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I agree with Daisy. If a school receives federal funds, I'm pretty sure they're REQUIRED to test even in K due to some of the provisions of NCLB.

 

Not to mention that most of the schools use Accelerated Reader, which, while it's not a great reading test, still would point out that a child was well above 1st grade level reading.

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I agree with Daisy. If a school receives federal funds, I'm pretty sure they're REQUIRED to test even in K due to some of the provisions of NCLB.

 

Not to mention that most of the schools use Accelerated Reader, which, while it's not a great reading test, still would point out that a child was well above 1st grade level reading.[/QUOTE]

 

Just wanted to say that I volunteered almost daily when dds were in ps - during K and 2nd grade. Both classes had specific volunteers come in to help students do the AR tests if they needed it so some don't even have to read the questions. They were also encouraged to take tests based on read a louds that either the teacher or volunteers would read. So, they could go the whole year and not ever have to do any reading on their own.

 

I also had to ask my dds K teacher to do a reading assesment because no one seemed to believe me when I told them she needed to be allowed to read more challenging books. Her teacher quickly apologized when dd tested as an end of year third grader (for their school). I think it just greatly varies on the school district.

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....today after school. I shared with her how I think I may have offended PDG's 1st grade teacher asking why phonics weren't taught in the school system in which we are enrolled.

 

So I asked this lady, who just finished her Master's project and received her teaching license/certification to teach elementary school, why she thought phonics wasn't taught; I mentioned that proper spelling skills were important to me.

 

This was her answer (paraphrased, but pretty accurate): Well, with the advent of computers and other resources there are so many more ways to know how a word is spelled. Knowing how to spell isn't that important anymore. :blink: :confused1:

 

I steered the conversation away from the topic, as my blood pressure was rising and I didn't want to insert my foot into my mouth.

 

Am I alone in my thinking that this is RIDICULOUS? Is this what is being taught in the university schools of education? I thought the whole-word learning versus (triumphant) phonics argument was settled. I guess not.

:eek::svengo:

 

I strongly disagree that phonics and spelling are not important anymore. Spell check only does so much for you and I believe in fluency and literacy skills are critical for an educated person.

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I can only tell you what a church friend who is a first grade teacher (and was my dd's first grade teacher) said. Any guess at spelling that has a couple letters right show 'growth'. My other dd's middle school teachers just said learn to use spell check. No middle school spelling. And here first graders do take keyboarding. They removed a recess to find time. *note, my last PS 1st grader was there 3 years ago before we started HS.

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Not to mention that most of the schools use Accelerated Reader, which, while it's not a great reading test, still would point out that a child was well above 1st grade level reading.

 

I hate the AR reading list with a passion. Last year my dd was required to do nightly reading. She was tested at the beginning of the year and assigned a level. For the entire rest of the year she was required to read books that fell within two tenths the level she was assigned. Almost every book that we picked that she wanted to read was above her level and she was not allowed to read it. Plus there was a lot of other great books that were not on the list at all so she was not allowed to read them because they couldn't test her on them or assign a level to them. It drove me absolutely batty.

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Actually, I have had a few homeschooling friends say that about spell check. As in, "Why do you care that his spelling hasn't improved? I figure there's always spell check, so I don't really care that there hasn't been any improvement." I am probably in the minority among the homeschooling people I know (and see regularly) in teaching spelling and phonics reading skills as a deliberate, incremental process.

 

During my SPED certification (over 10 years ago), we took a regular ed reading class that had a strong whole language bent. Patricia Cunninghams' Phonics They Use was one of our main textbooks and another one that I can't recall. Simultaneously, we took a Direct Reading Instruction class. My professor was a huge fan of SRA's Direct Reading Instruction and we taught several lessons at a school that was using it in their regular classrooms. It was very interesting to see the huge discrepancy in reading instruction at one university. I remember several classmates commenting, "How are we supposed to know which one we're supposed to use if both of you (regular ed and SPED) are telling us this is the way?"

 

The elementary school down the street uses a "balanced literacy approach". Apparently, they use some O-G, but not straight phonics, because "not all kids can learn phonics". I have a friend teaching Title I and hearing their methods is always a good reminder why homeschooling is the right choice for us (well, that and their asinine spelling words)

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Wow. Hard to believe they put so much faith in spell checkers so they don't have to teach an important subject. Here a little poem for them.

 

 

 

Eye halve a spelling chequer

It came with my pea sea

It plainly marques four my revue

Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

 

 

Eye strike a key and type a word

And weight four it two say

Weather eye am wrong oar write

It shows me strait a weigh.

 

 

As soon as a mist ache is maid

It nose bee fore two long

And eye can put the error rite

Its rare lea ever wrong.

 

 

Eye have run this poem threw it

I am shore your pleased two no

Its letter perfect awl the weigh

My chequer tolled me sew.

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Teaching a reliance on consumerism.................. I have to remember to add this to our curriculum, my poor kids they miss so much.:glare:

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

To the OP...that's the stupidest thing I've heard all day, and it's been a particularly stupid day...good reading/spelling/basic math skills affect the 'firmware' wiring of the developing brain...

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I feel it is very important. I sometimes wonder what schools DO teach these days.

 

John Taylor Gatto says the PSs are a govt. jobs program for the unemployable...

 

Last spring must have heard a dozen stories about brick & mortar PS, and On Line at Home Public Schools that basically wasted the remaining 2 weeks of the year, because the 'testing' was finished, so there was no reason to teach anything...:blink:

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....today after school. I shared with her how I think I may have offended PDG's 1st grade teacher asking why phonics weren't taught in the school system in which we are enrolled.

 

So I asked this lady, who just finished her Master's project and received her teaching license/certification to teach elementary school, why she thought phonics wasn't taught; I mentioned that proper spelling skills were important to me.

 

This was her answer (paraphrased, but pretty accurate): Well, with the advent of computers and other resources there are so many more ways to know how a word is spelled. Knowing how to spell isn't that important anymore. :blink: :confused1:

 

.

 

 

fwiw, I consider reading phonetically & spelling 2 different skills. I find phonics slows down my younger 2 dc's spelling since they tend to spell phonetically.

 

What's scary, though, is this reliance on the computer, because spell checks aren't always right/rite/write/wright (as in wheelwright), or should I say correct, since they can't always tell what you meant to type. If your typo is a real word, then spell checks are useless.

 

Spelling is important, just like knowing math facts is important. The best way I've ever seen in my personal experience of teaching 2 dc how to read is combining phonics & the whole word approch (after all, words such as the just aren't phonetic).

 

Butt pee pull canned seam two sea I too aye!

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Wow. Hard to believe they put so much faith in spell checkers so they don't have to teach an important subject. Here a little poem for them.

 

 

 

Eye halve a spelling chequer

It came with my pea sea

It plainly marques four my revue

Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

 

 

Eye strike a key and type a word

And weight four it two say

Weather eye am wrong oar write

It shows me strait a weigh.

 

 

As soon as a mist ache is maid

It nose bee fore two long

And eye can put the error rite

Its rare lea ever wrong.

 

 

Eye have run this poem threw it

I am shore your pleased two no

Its letter perfect awl the weigh

My chequer tolled me sew.

Thanks for sharing that little poem.

Poor Jean in Newcastle--she's probably blinded and on the verge of death after reading it.

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Here's the info:

 

I'm pregnant with #9. (don't know if that is relevant)

Lately, for the past few months I am A LOT more tired than normal and have hardly any energy past 1:00pm. I get frequent headaches, seem to have a constant but very slight nasal drip, and have reoccurring bouts of muscle/body aches. I'll have days (usually at least once a week) where my body aches and I feel completely run down (i.e. no energy, motivation etc.) kind of like I'm coming down with the flu. Only I don't get the flu. I have to go to bed very early because I feel so tired and weak. I mentioned this to my OB, (oh no wait, I haven't seen her yet, I get to see the PA :thumbdown:), and she said "Well, your blood work all came back fine." So, I left there feeling very discouraged and like I must be crazy and this is all in my head. I'm so frustrated b/c I really don't think it is normal to have such a low energy level. I know I have a lot of kids etc. but still.....I should not feel this worn out at 39. My children help a lot, so I am getting help from them with daily chores etc. Has anyone else felt like this? What did you do to help yourself? I'm feeling like I won't get any help from the Dr. so I'm trying to research and get some answers on my own.

 

Thanks for listening.......

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She is subbing in elementary school. Apparently she did her Master's course-work about 10 years ago, had children, and in the last year or so did her practicum and was certified. She has 3 school-aged children, is a PTA officer, REALLY involved in the local school, etc. She's tapped-in. She's not a novice.

 

She also told me that it isn't until the beginning of second grade that the children are even "assessed" for reading skills. Does this mean that PDG is going to languish away hearing "Chicka Chicka Boom Boom"-type read-alouds day after day for a year before she's allowed to actually demonstrate that she is reading 250 page books?

 

She may not be a novice but she is quite ignorant....imho.

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Eye halve a spelling chequer

It came with my pea sea

It plainly marques four my revue

Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

 

 

Eye strike a key and type a word

And weight four it two say

Weather eye am wrong oar write

It shows me strait a weigh.

 

 

As soon as a mist ache is maid

It nose bee fore two long

And eye can put the error rite

Its rare lea ever wrong.

 

 

Eye have run this poem threw it

I am shore your pleased two no

Its letter perfect awl the weigh

My chequer tolled me sew.

 

¡Ay caramba!

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When my kids were in school we were told that "creative spelling" was fine and that it need not be corrected. The reasoning was that it might discourage the kids from writing at all. IMO, I think it is another way of shielding kids from being told something is not correct in order to preserve their self-esteem. Never mind the failure of self esteem in the future when they can't get into college or fill out a job application.

 

Lesley

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This is the same reasoning that gives the argument "children don't need to learn math because we have calculators." Why don't mainstream educators realize that the mental process, not just the end result is valuable? Knowing how to spell trains the brain to store information sequentially and retrive it the same way. The process of learning to spell is just as valuable as spelling correctly. (I know I am typing to the choir, but this just steams me!)

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When my kids were in school we were told that "creative spelling" was fine and that it need not be corrected. The reasoning was that it might discourage the kids from writing at all. IMO, I think it is another way of shielding kids from being told something is not correct in order to preserve their self-esteem. Never mind the failure of self esteem in the future when they can't get into college or fill out a job application.

 

Lesley

 

My children were taught the creative spelling in kindergarten. It is horrible. My middle dd9 still has trouble spelling when writing. She can pass a spelling test all day long, but when she is writing in context she will phonetically spell. It is driving me batty!!!

I would like to throttle whoever dreamed up the idea of not corrected a child when they spell wrong.

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My children were taught the creative spelling in kindergarten. It is horrible. My middle dd9 still has trouble spelling when writing. She can pass a spelling test all day long, but when she is writing in context she will phonetically spell. It is driving me batty!!!

I would like to throttle whoever dreamed up the idea of not corrected a child when they spell wrong.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Ds11(who did K-3 in ps) never.ever.ever. misses a word on spelling tests but misses them in his writing all.the.time! I know part of this is just laziness, but I also think part is that when he should have been learning phonics and spelling rules he was never corrected or encouraged to focus on spelling.

 

Proper grammar and spelling are training for the brain! You better believe my two youngers (who have always hs'ed) are getting phonics and focused spelling rules training!:D

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When my kids were in school we were told that "creative spelling" was fine and that it need not be corrected. The reasoning was that it might discourage the kids from writing at all. IMO, I think it is another way of shielding kids from being told something is not correct in order to preserve their self-esteem. Never mind the failure of self esteem in the future when they can't get into college or fill out a job application.

 

Lesley

 

How old were they? This is common in lower grades when they're still learning to read. Should I have really pointed out my then 4-year-old's spelling errors when she started trying to write sentences?

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When my kids were in school we were told that "creative spelling" was fine and that it need not be corrected. The reasoning was that it might discourage the kids from writing at all. IMO, I think it is another way of shielding kids from being told something is not correct in order to preserve their self-esteem. Never mind the failure of self esteem in the future when they can't get into college or fill out a job application.

 

Lesley

 

Actually, I had this all through PS elementary in the '80s. We were told the same thing about our creativity being stifled by correcting our work. This was for both grammar and spelling. It is still embarrassing for me today. I am learning everything I didn't in PS with my DD now. I did go to the University and I graduated with a high GPA, but it was a struggle and I hated having to show any writing that I had not had time to go over with an understanding friend first. I do not like that my stunted writing ability speaks for how educated I am, and I 100% blame the shoddy foundation of my education on the PS door!:glare:

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How old were they? This is common in lower grades when they're still learning to read. Should I have really pointed out my then 4-year-old's spelling errors when she started trying to write sentences?

 

 

This was K-7 for me. We moved to a new stated between my 7th & 8th grade years, but by then the damage was done. In high school I was laughed at for my poor spelling and grammar. It was mortifying!

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Wow. Hard to believe they put so much faith in spell checkers so they don't have to teach an important subject. Here a little poem for them.

 

 

 

Eye halve a spelling chequer

It came with my pea sea

It plainly marques four my revue

Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

 

 

Eye strike a key and type a word

And weight four it two say

Weather eye am wrong oar write

It shows me strait a weigh.

 

 

As soon as a mist ache is maid

It nose bee fore two long

And eye can put the error rite

Its rare lea ever wrong.

 

 

Eye have run this poem threw it

I am shore your pleased two no

Its letter perfect awl the weigh

My chequer tolled me sew.

 

Owwww! I am fairly certain my IQ dropped a few point after reading that.

 

OP, I pulled my kids out of ps for this very reason. My dd10's 3rd grade spelling tests were multiple choice!:glare: Really? And the principal told me "Well, things get harder in 4th grade." So my kids were supposed to get dumbed down until 4th grade? Then maybe they would be challenged?

 

I know it must be hard on you to have PDG in ps. I know it has something to do with your dh and mil (boy do I LOVE those mils;)). Sounds like your dd needs to come home.

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So basicly the best argument they can come up with is the perspective that computers now think for the writer?

 

There is a prevailing attitude that actual learning is no longer necessary because, well you can just google it or look it up.

 

I disagree.

 

 

Well, my computer just told me that Martha is right, so there! :tongue_smilie:

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Here's the info:

 

I'm pregnant with #9. (don't know if that is relevant)

Lately, for the past few months I am A LOT more tired than normal and have hardly any energy past 1:00pm. I get frequent headaches, seem to have a constant but very slight nasal drip, and have reoccurring bouts of muscle/body aches. I'll have days (usually at least once a week) where my body aches and I feel completely run down (i.e. no energy, motivation etc.) kind of like I'm coming down with the flu. Only I don't get the flu. I have to go to bed very early because I feel so tired and weak. I mentioned this to my OB, (oh no wait, I haven't seen her yet, I get to see the PA :thumbdown:), and she said "Well, your blood work all came back fine." So, I left there feeling very discouraged and like I must be crazy and this is all in my head. I'm so frustrated b/c I really don't think it is normal to have such a low energy level. I know I have a lot of kids etc. but still.....I should not feel this worn out at 39. My children help a lot, so I am getting help from them with daily chores etc. Has anyone else felt like this? What did you do to help yourself? I'm feeling like I won't get any help from the Dr. so I'm trying to research and get some answers on my own.

 

Thanks for listening.......

You poor sweetie. I know you are tired, as you said in your post, but I think because of your tiredness you have accidentally posted in the wrong thread.

Oh, never mind. I didn't see before posting this that you are already aware that you posted in the wrong thread. I hope you get some answers to your question.

Edited by Miss Sherry
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My why-you-need-math story: I was working a new job and after my second paycheck I went to the manager and said, "my check is not adding up to what it should; can you explain the process you use in determining hours worked?" He started explaining and I realized he was adding the minutes and carrying the number into the hours column. I stopped him and said "no, you cannot do it that way!" He said "yes, let me show you!" I said "no, you are doing it the WRONG WAY." I explained that there are only 60 minutes in an hour, but he was adding it in such a way that I had to work 100 minutes in order to get paid for an hour. Ugh!!!! You need basic math skills, people, even if it's to tell when people are cheating you (on accident or purpose).

 

Oh WOW. :001_huh: I will never, ever say that I suck at math again. LOL

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John Taylor Gatto says the PSs are a govt. jobs program for the unemployable...

 

Last spring must have heard a dozen stories about brick & mortar PS, and On Line at Home Public Schools that basically wasted the remaining 2 weeks of the year, because the 'testing' was finished, so there was no reason to teach anything...:blink:

 

I don't find this funny (or true) in the slightest. My son attends public school and I feel grateful for the gifted and hard-working professional educators in his school and appreciate what they bring to his education.

 

The teacher bashing on this forum gets old. Some of you are really kidding yourselves about what is happening in highly functioning schools in terms of academic achievement. All the children in my son's Kindergarten class last year finished the year reading well, even those who started the year not reading at all. It was really impressive to witness.

 

And they learned to read phonetically. It was not just memorization of sight words as some would lead you to believe.

 

No one likes it when people make sweeping generalizations that demean and belittling homeschoolers, right? So what makes it OK to turn around and treat teachers with the same sort of generalized disrespect. That's not exactly living by the Golden Rule.

 

Teaching is an honorable profession and the words you quote are untrue and very unkind.

 

Bill

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Teaching is an honorable profession and the words you quote are untrue and very unkind.

 

Bill

 

 

That should read as:

 

Teaching is an honorable profession and the words you quote are not always true.

 

 

Bill, your kiddo goes to a great school. Many kids don't. When we are talking about sucky schools and sucky teachers, we are talking about the schools and teachers that suck, not the ones that don't. We all know there are exceptions to every rule, right? Your son's teachers are an exception to the PS teachers suck rule, and I'll bet you know that not all teachers are honorable in their delivery.

 

Rosie

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