Stressed out kiddo/ schedule, I push too hard

[Mesa]

I'm going to try to keep this as brief as possible. I have a 10yr old son who is a bright yet reluctant learner when it comes to anything besides reading, and science related studies. He needs repetition, especially with grammar and math. He is a very poor writer... probably "behind grade level."

I've become a "pusher' with him and I see the anxiety he has when it comes to doing his school work. I wonder if I'm expecting too much. I'd like for his school day to be short and sweet. Our days have been anything but.

 

Please help me with his schedule and curricula.

This is what I have him doing.

 

BJU science dvd, Apoloigia science (he likes this, and does it on his own)

 

BJU English dvd(mostly for grammar, but we use all of it)

 

BJU Reading dvd

 

Sonlight history and reading (he loves to read)

 

MUS Epsilon and Saxon math 6/5 (we tried BJU math, but it was far too easy for him.)

 

Phonics Road to Reading lvl 1 (I'd like to see if this works for him and then use it as a stand alone program. I'd like to do Latin Road eventually. I'm hesitant to drop BJU English until I know he can learn from this method alone.)

 

IEW (havent started it yet, I loved it last year. I'm thinking about dropping the writing portion in BJU and just use IEW.)

 

HWT (he has atrocious penmanship, we cannot drop this subject)

 

Typing (havent gotten to it, in months)

 

Spanish (havent gotten to this in weeks)

 

Piano

 

Guitar

Edited August 14, 2010 by Mesa

[EKS]

I'm going to try to keep this as brief as possible. I have a 10yr old son who is a bright yet reluctant learner when it comes to anything besides reading, and science related studies. He needs repetition, especially with grammar and math. He is a very poor writer... probably "behind grade level."

I've become a "pusher' with him and I see the anxiety he has when it comes to doing his school work. I wonder if I'm expecting too much. I'd like for his school day to be short and sweet. Our days have been anything but.

 

Please help me with his schedule and curricula.

This is what I have him doing.

 

BJU science dvd, Apoloigia science (he likes this, and does it on his own)

 

BJU English dvd(mostly for grammar, but we use all of it)

 

BJU Reading dvd

 

Sonlight history and reading (he loves to read)

 

MUS Epsilon and Saxon math 6/5 (we tried BJU math, but it was far too easy for him.)

 

Phonics Road to Reading lvl 1 (I'd like to see if this works for him and then use it as a stand alone program. I'd like to do Latin Road eventually. I'm hesitant to drop BJU English until I know he can learn from this method alone.)

 

IEW (havent started it yet, I loved it last year. I'm thinking about dropping the writing portion in BJU and just use IEW.)

 

HWT (he has atrocious penmanship, we cannot drop this subject)

 

Typing (havent gotten to it, in months)

 

Spanish (havent gotten to this in weeks)

 

Piano

 

Guitar

 

I see what seems to be a lot of duplication here, though I might be wrong because I'm not familiar with some of the resources you're using.

 

BJU Science dvd and Apologia science

 

BJU English and IEW and Phonics Road to Reading

 

BJU Reading dvd and Sonlight reading and Phonics Road to Reading

 

MUS Epsilon and Saxon 6/5

 

HWT and typing (if his handwriting is really horrible, I'd move to typing rather than try to remediate the handwriting)

 

I would pick one program for each subject and see if that helps.

[MamaAkins]

Please help me with his schedule and curricula.

This is what I have him doing.

 

BJU science dvd, Apoloigia science (he likes this, and does it on his own) - I would probably do one or the other.

 

BJU English dvd(mostly for grammar, but we use all of it) I would only use the grammar portion

 

BJU Reading dvd - I would eliminate this if he's also doing Sonlight reading & history

 

Sonlight history and reading (he loves to read) - I'd keep this

 

MUS Epsilon and Saxon math 6/5 (we tried BJU math, but it was far too easy for him.) Again, I'd choose one or the other

 

Phonics Road to Reading lvl 1 (I'd like to see if this works for him and then use it as a stand alone program. I'd like to do Latin Road eventually. I'm hesitant to drop BJU English until I know he can learn from this method alone.) I wouldn't use this if he's a strong reader and is also doing BJU english.

 

IEW (havent started it yet, I loved it last year. I'm thinking about dropping the writing portion in BJU and just use IEW.) If you drop the writing portion of BJU, then I'd use this.

 

HWT (he has atrocious penmanship, we cannot drop this subject) I'd keep this.

 

Typing (havent gotten to it, in months) I'd spend 15 minutes per day, 2-3 times per week.

 

Spanish (havent gotten to this in weeks) I'd eliminate this and wait till he's a bit older to worry about introducing a foreign language.

 

Piano

-I'd probably choose 1 musical instrument (either piano or guitar)

Guitar

 

This seems like a lot for a 10 year old, with a lot of redundant subjects.

[Daisy]

I see what seems to be a lot of duplication here, though I might be wrong because I'm not familiar with some of the resources you're using.

 

BJU Science dvd and Apologia science

 

BJU English and IEW and Phonics Road to Reading

 

BJU Reading dvd and Sonlight reading and Phonics Road to Reading

 

MUS Epsilon and Saxon 6/5

 

HWT and typing (if his handwriting is really horrible, I'd move to typing rather than try to remediate the handwriting)

 

I would pick one program for each subject and see if that helps.

 

I completely agree! And even with the subjects he enjoys, I would cut it down to only one for right now. When you reach a place where he has time left over and he shows an interest, I'd add back in the extra science & reading.

[littleWMN]

I see what seems to be a lot of duplication here, though I might be wrong because I'm not familiar with some of the resources you're using.

 

BJU Science dvd and Apologia science

 

BJU English and IEW and Phonics Road to Reading

 

BJU Reading dvd and Sonlight reading and Phonics Road to Reading

 

MUS Epsilon and Saxon 6/5

 

HWT and typing (if his handwriting is really horrible, I'd move to typing rather than try to remediate the handwriting)

 

I would pick one program for each subject and see if that helps.

 

:iagree:

[Mesa]

Thank you for your opinions... it's going to be hard deciding what we should keep.

 

Do you not suggest 2 math programs? I've read using a spiral program along with a mastery program was ideal.

[ma23peas]

I may be different than the mainstream...

 

Go with what he likes!!! Give him a break!! If he LOVES science, then let him do it to his heart's content, seek out avenues where he can apply what he's learned (local science museums, create your own lab experiments..do it with him for FUN)...let him READ, but make sure he is reading GOOD literature..there is a time for twaddle but a SOLID reading selection WILL help his grammar/spelling/vocabulary through immersion...

 

I just couldn't put my son through grammar...no joy of learning and how can I honestly say it's important to do the SAME lessons each year, when if the child is bright enough...2 years of direct study after years of reading great literature will suffice and probably even mean more? (We use analytical grammar and love it)

 

I did not homeschool to duplicate a school room type of learning, I did it to foster the LOVE of learning in all my children, sometimes I fail, sometimes I succeed, but they are all so wonderfully and uniquely created that their learning path also should approach a parallel.

 

HTH!

Tara

[Guest]

That does seem like a whole ton of work for such a young boy. But more than that, I'd worry about the anxiety and do everything I could to relieve it.

 

First, play to his strengths. The love of reading is wonderful; let him go at it. Don't bog him down with too many requirements afterwards, like vocabulary, or worksheets, or comprehension details. Discuss what he reads with him (TWTM has a series of questions to start off a discussion for the logic stage). Don't worry about such things as "literary analysis" or detailed dissections of everything he reads. Just discuss it in the course of everyday conversation. If you do narrations, let him talk and you write; he can copy shorter narrations so that he can focus just on the handwriting, or you can simply type them up. The point is that you don't want his writing problems to drag down his pleasure in reading.

 

Then, try a different approach to his weaknesses to lighten that anxiety. Peggy Kaye has a wonderful book called Games For Writing, which turns what is for many kids a fraught activity into something fun, something shared, something silly, experimental, and totally risk-free. Do not "work" at this book; use it to make him more comfortable with the blank page.

 

You could also try something like If You're Trying to Teach Kids to Write, You've Got To Have This Book. Again, this is a non-"schoolish" approach aimed at loosening kids up, getting them simply practiced with putting pencil to paper, developing -- very slowly -- writing stamina through short, interesting, non-traditional exercises, often something as short as a list.

 

If he doesn't take to the "silly school of writing," you could have him begin to keep a science book of some kind: a notebook with questions he has and answers as he finds them, a lab notebook with photos of his experiments or things in the natural world with his annotations and comments, lists of science books he's read and perhaps a comment or two on which are best and why.

 

I have a daughter who was formally diagnosed with dysgraphia at age eleven; now, at fourteen, she writes multi-page essays (still somewhat misspelled and punctuated, but SO MUCH better than she used to do that she is no longer officially dysgraphic). It was very difficult to back off and trust that she would gradually develop; but I used the Peggy Kaye book, encouraged her to make lists, wrote lists back, played around with writing. The only school-type writing we continued to do was spelling, and at her request, cursive. It took a long time, but around twelve or so there was a huge leap in her ability and stamina. She could write longer and longer lists of spelling words, her lists became longer, she started writing silly lists and letters on her own time, and it became clear she was moving out of the painfully restricted writing she had been limited to for so long.

 

It's counterproductive to try to rush a child with writing problems into a formal writing program. Have you watched and listened to SWB's You-Tube videos, or heard her downloads on writing? She repeatedly tells people to scale back, keep it simple and SHORT and easy, let the kids develop fluency and stamina at their own pace. It's easy to get very anxious as a homeschool parent (been there, in spades) when your child is struggling with writing, but as you have clearly seen, pushing produces more anxiety in your child and this will make what is already difficult even harder. The kinds of information a bright child can take in may far outrace the level of what he can "output" in writing, for a number of years. And that's okay. Take it slow, take it easy, make it extremely low-key, make it sociable and fun if he likes that approach. As long as you keep discussing what he reads, you're building skills: organizing thoughts, articulating, analyzing, comparing and contrasting, making connections -- all things that will allow your son to bring his writing up to speed quickly once he is developmentally able and ready.

[Mesa]

Phonics Road 1 is waay below his grade level, it's targeted for 1st graders. We use it for our spelling program. I was hoping as he moved up through the levels we could use this for our stand alone program, and get rid of BJU English. I'll have to think about what I want to do here.... hmmm

 

IEW can go *sniff sniff*

 

Typing and Handwriting are alternated (when we get to typing lol) and should probably stay that way.

 

Piano and Guitar are by his request so I dont want to change that unless he gives the go ahead.

 

Apologia science is done by my son during his own free time, as a fun book to read. I dont schedule this. I probably shouldnt have included this in my subject list.

 

BJU science this is scheduled and done on the dvd. Perhaps I should drop this next year and just let my son run wild with Apologia lol.

[Mesa]

That does seem like a whole ton of work for such a young boy. But more than that, I'd worry about the anxiety and do everything I could to relieve it.

 

First, play to his strengths. The love of reading is wonderful; let him go at it. Don't bog him down with too many requirements afterwards, like vocabulary, or worksheets, or comprehension details. Discuss what he reads with him (TWTM has a series of questions to start off a discussion for the logic stage). Don't worry about such things as "literary analysis" or detailed dissections of everything he reads. Just discuss it in the course of everyday conversation. If you do narrations, let him talk and you write; he can copy shorter narrations so that he can focus just on the handwriting, or you can simply type them up. The point is that you don't want his writing problems to drag down his pleasure in reading.

 

Then, try a different approach to his weaknesses to lighten that anxiety. Peggy Kaye has a wonderful book called Games For Writing, which turns what is for many kids a fraught activity into something fun, something shared, something silly, experimental, and totally risk-free. Do not "work" at this book; use it to make him more comfortable with the blank page.

 

You could also try something like If You're Trying to Teach Kids to Write, You've Got To Have This Book. Again, this is a non-"schoolish" approach aimed at loosening kids up, getting them simply practiced with putting pencil to paper, developing -- very slowly -- writing stamina through short, interesting, non-traditional exercises, often something as short as a list.

 

If he doesn't take to the "silly school of writing," you could have him begin to keep a science book of some kind: a notebook with questions he has and answers as he finds them, a lab notebook with photos of his experiments or things in the natural world with his annotations and comments, lists of science books he's read and perhaps a comment or two on which are best and why.

 

I have a daughter who was formally diagnosed with dysgraphia at age eleven; now, at fourteen, she writes multi-page essays (still somewhat misspelled and punctuated, but SO MUCH better than she used to do that she is no longer officially dysgraphic). It was very difficult to back off and trust that she would gradually develop; but I used the Peggy Kaye book, encouraged her to make lists, wrote lists back, played around with writing. The only school-type writing we continued to do was spelling, and at her request, cursive. It took a long time, but around twelve or so there was a huge leap in her ability and stamina. She could write longer and longer lists of spelling words, her lists became longer, she started writing silly lists and letters on her own time, and it became clear she was moving out of the painfully restricted writing she had been limited to for so long.

 

It's counterproductive to try to rush a child with writing problems into a formal writing program. Have you watched and listened to SWB's You-Tube videos, or heard her downloads on writing? She repeatedly tells people to scale back, keep it simple and SHORT and easy, let the kids develop fluency and stamina at their own pace. It's easy to get very anxious as a homeschool parent (been there, in spades) when your child is struggling with writing, but as you have clearly seen, pushing produces more anxiety in your child and this will make what is already difficult even harder. The kinds of information a bright child can take in may far outrace the level of what he can "output" in writing, for a number of years. And that's okay. Take it slow, take it easy, make it extremely low-key, make it sociable and fun if he likes that approach. As long as you keep discussing what he reads, you're building skills: organizing thoughts, articulating, analyzing, comparing and contrasting, making connections -- all things that will allow your son to bring his writing up to speed quickly once he is developmentally able and ready.

 

Thank you for this. I'll look into these books.

[Ellie]

Do you not suggest 2 math programs? I've read using a spiral program along with a mastery program was ideal.

I disagree. For one thing, Saxon is not spiral; it's incremental. For another, both MUS and Saxon are comprehensive, complete math courses. It's overkill to do both. This whole spiral vs mastery discussion thing is really quite new among hsers, and IMHO it's just not all that important. How things are presented is more important than spiral vs mastery.

 

For that matter, you have major overkill in a couple of subjects. Really. Pick one: BJUP grammar/comp and reading, *or* Phonics Road and IEW; BJUP reading *or* Sonlight. Even if he likes them all, it's just too much work for one little person.

[Mesa]

I may be different than the mainstream...

 

Go with what he likes!!! Give him a break!! If he LOVES science, then let him do it to his heart's content, seek out avenues where he can apply what he's learned (local science museums, create your own lab experiments..do it with him for FUN)...let him READ, but make sure he is reading GOOD literature..there is a time for twaddle but a SOLID reading selection WILL help his grammar/spelling/vocabulary through immersion...

 

I just couldn't put my son through grammar...no joy of learning and how can I honestly say it's important to do the SAME lessons each year, when if the child is bright enough...2 years of direct study after years of reading great literature will suffice and probably even mean more? (We use analytical grammar and love it)

 

I did not homeschool to duplicate a school room type of learning, I did it to foster the LOVE of learning in all my children, sometimes I fail, sometimes I succeed, but they are all so wonderfully and uniquely created that their learning path also should approach a parallel.

 

HTH!

Tara

 

I love this!

I need to sit down and write all the reasons WHY we homeschool. I've fallen away that. I seem have trouble following my own advice. lol

[Mesa]

I disagree. For one thing, Saxon is not spiral; it's incremental. For another, both MUS and Saxon are comprehensive, complete math courses. It's overkill to do both. This whole spiral vs mastery discussion thing is really quite new among hsers, and IMHO it's just not all that important. How things are presented is more important than spiral vs mastery.

 

For that matter, you have major overkill in a couple of subjects. Really. Pick one: BJUP grammar/comp and reading, *or* Phonics Road and IEW; BJUP reading *or* Sonlight. Even if he likes them all, it's just too much work for one little person.

 

Saxon:

I know it's technically labeled incremental, but I still call it spiral. It goes over the SAME concepts over and over. MUS works beautifully to introduce a concept and teach him "tricks" but he does not retain that knowlege for any length of time. Which is where the Saxon worksheets have come in handy.

I'm not sure what to do here. He needs the MUS lesson but with the "spiral" of Saxon. I'm really stumped as to what to do here.

 

Again the phonics road 1 is only used as our spelling program right now since it is so far below this childs grade level. I can see how IEW can be dropped.

Since we are not doing a Spelling program I dont see this as being overkill. I am hoping PR becomes a full language program as we progress through the levels.

 

Sonlight and BJU Yes, again redundant. My son enjoys the stories in BJU and likes the cheesy video lessons. He insists on doing the Reading in BJU, I'd prefer to skip this. Sonlight is his favorite curriculum EVER. and since this subject is his strength I dont see why I need to trim this one down.

 

Reading and science are his favorite subjects so I have allowed him to "run wild" there. I just cant cut reading and science down. Now LA on the other hand... yes I do need help cutting out stuff there.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Mesa

[Farrar]

I'm sort of repeating what others said, but...

 

If you've been working with him on handwriting since K and he still is horrible... well, I say time for typing. Some kids just aren't destined for beautiful penmanship.

 

Second, if he loves science, why not cut down to one official program but let him go crazy with fun supplemental stuff - science kits, library books about science, books of fun experiments, videos, etc.

[DarlaS]

I'm going to try to keep this as brief as possible. I have a 10yr old son who is a bright yet reluctant learner when it comes to anything besides reading, and science related studies. He needs repetition, especially with grammar and math. He is a very poor writer... probably "behind grade level."

I've become a "pusher' with him and I see the anxiety he has when it comes to doing his school work. I wonder if I'm expecting too much. I'd like for his school day to be short and sweet. Our days have been anything but.

 

Please help me with his schedule and curricula.

This is what I have him doing.

 

BJU science dvd, Apoloigia science (he likes this, and does it on his own)

 

Stick with the one he loves and drop BJU.

 

BJU English dvd(mostly for grammar, but we use all of it)

 

Is he doing well with this? If he is, it's complete grammar and writing. There's a lot of stuff below that can GO.

 

BJU Reading dvd

 

Sonlight history and reading (he loves to read)

 

If he loved to read, pick ONE reading program (I vote for Sonlight) and drop the other--or it could backfire and he'll learn to hate it.

 

MUS Epsilon and Saxon math 6/5 (we tried BJU math, but it was far too easy for him.)

 

Pick one. This is a good time to jump into Saxon if you're going to do it.

 

Phonics Road to Reading lvl 1 (I'd like to see if this works for him and then use it as a stand alone program. I'd like to do Latin Road eventually. I'm hesitant to drop BJU English until I know he can learn from this method alone.)

 

I guess I don't understand the appeal of programs like PR for a 10 yo. I do see people doing phonics with kids who are older, reading well and love to read. But why? Is he a terrible speller?

 

IEW (havent started it yet, I loved it last year. I'm thinking about dropping the writing portion in BJU and just use IEW.)

 

I'd do that if you love IEW--but I'd skip it if he's doing okay with BJU and ditch PR too.

 

HWT (he has atrocious penmanship, we cannot drop this subject)

 

Ten minutes a day--no matter how much or how little he does. Set a timer.

 

Typing (havent gotten to it, in months)

 

I'd make this more of a priority due to the handwriting.

Spanish (havent gotten to this in weeks)

 

I'm in favor of saving serious second language study until at least middle school when kids have a truly decent grasp of English grammar.

 

Piano

 

Guitar

 

If you require music, require one instrument and let him self-teach the other at his own pace. If he can read music, he will do fine--at least for this year.

 

 

 

Be careful what you ask for--I'm a ruthless hacker. :001_smile:

[justamouse]

I have a reply for you, but I am weary and can't type it all out. Tomorrow when I get a moment I will share with you my own lessons with me pushing too hard.

[Mesa]

Heres what I have so far:

 

BJU English, Reading, and Science

 

Math: not sure what to do

 

Sonlight history and readers (again this is because he enjoys this subject)

 

Typing (every other day or once a week maybe?)

 

Handwriting (maybe practice one or two lines every other day, so I keep it light. He has fine motor delays and still needs some practice in forming letters.)

 

 

I will drop the idea of trying to fit IEW in, that'll be shelved this year.

 

Spelling... I dont know, I was trying to use Phonics Road for Spelling. I'll wait and see what the consensus is on that sunject.

 

Apologia, those books are in my sons room and he reads those as he wishes... so I cannot really cut that out, and I know he wont let me cut out those BJU science videos, he's already asking about the 5th grade videos.

 

Math, need to pick one.

[Mesa]

Darla thank you for your reply! It was very gentle lol.

 

I like your ideas. Phonics Road was started at level 1 because the author of the books suggests that on her website. I'd prefer to have started him in the Bridge to Latin grammar. I was going to go through this quickly so we could be up to where my ds needs to be. Right now we were just using it to learn her "rule tunes" and other spelling rules. My son is a poor speller. I felt justified to throw down the 200 bucks for this program in hopes it would be a good fit and become our only LA program. I am now wavering, and may just drop it. it takes up quite a bit of time... and to think we have to get through 1, 2, 3 to get to "The Bridge."

[Mesa]

I'm sort of repeating what others said, but...

 

If you've been working with him on handwriting since K and he still is horrible... well, I say time for typing. Some kids just aren't destined for beautiful penmanship.

 

Second, if he loves science, why not cut down to one official program but let him go crazy with fun supplemental stuff - science kits, library books about science, books of fun experiments, videos, etc.

 

 

Good point. I've worked on handwriting since he 1st grade. He was in PS during kindy. I'll focus on Typing more than handwriting. However he still has reversals and I'm trying to work through them. I'm actually wondering if he has dysgraphia.

[DarlaS]

Darla thank you for your reply! It was very gentle lol.

 

I like your ideas. Phonics Road was started at level 1 because the author of the books suggests that on her website. I'd prefer to have started him in the Bridge to Latin grammar. I was going to go through this quickly so we could be up to where my ds needs to be. Right now we were just using it to learn her "rule tunes" and other spelling rules. My son is a poor speller. I felt justified to throw down the 200 bucks for this program in hopes it would be a good fit and become our only LA program. I am now wavering, and may just drop it. it takes up quite a bit of time... and to think we have to get through 1, 2, 3 to get to "The Bridge."

 

Have you looked into something like All About Spelling? I would think you could start with level 2 and move pretty quickly to get to closer to his grade level--without so much investment. I bought it and dropped it because my kids are pretty good speller. I know how people on this board can get you to buy stuff. :D

 

This year for my two who still do spelling, I am happily settling for good old boring Spelling Workout. :tongue_smilie:

[Mesa]

Have you looked into something like All About Spelling? I would think you could start with level 2 and move pretty quickly to get to closer to his grade level--without so much investment. I bought it and dropped it because my kids are pretty good speller. I know how people on this board can get you to buy stuff. :D

 

This year for my two who still do spelling, I am happily settling for good old boring Spelling Workout. :tongue_smilie:

 

LOL actually yes, I have! I dropped it for PR because I had read that PR was more spiral than AAS is. I need to stop visiting this forum and finding new fantastic currics to try lol. There are far too many good programs I want to use. I guess I've come to the conclusion I cannot use them all, no matter how good they are! :lol:

[texasmama]

I agree to cut back since he is becoming anxious. As an aside, poor penmanship is often a fine motor skills issue and is not terribly likely to be greatly improved by using more handwriting programs. I agree with the rec to start a typing program. We will be using Typing Instructor Platinum with my rising 4th grader this year.

[Mesa]

I agree to cut back since he is becoming anxious. As an aside, poor penmanship is often a fine motor skills issue and is not terribly likely to be greatly improved by using more handwriting programs. I agree with the rec to start a typing program. We will be using Typing Instructor Platinum with my rising 4th grader this year.

 

He only uses the one program, HWT. He has used Typing Instructor Deluxe, but it's on his laptop and the power cord broke. I need to get him a new one but I keep spacing it off.

[Mesa]

Spanish can go too. I can use it over next summer, right? LOL I hate seeing it go!

 

I cant believe how hard it is to let things go.... yet at the same time what a relief!

 

Math... what to do what to do.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Mesa

[texasmama]

He only uses the one program, HWT. He has used Typing Instructor Deluxe, but it's on his laptop and the power

 

cord broke. I need to get him a new one but I keep spacing it off.

 

I worded that poorly. What I meant was that continuing to use handwriting programs probably won't make a significant difference if he has used them for this many years and his handwriting is terrible still. I hope that is more clear.:tongue_smilie: My rising fourth grader has "serial killer handwriting", as I like to joke. (It's an obscure reference from the movie Steel Magnolias.:lol:)

[Mesa]

Oh lol... yes, I do see your point. Perhaps handwriting should go. He does have Aspergers and SID, fine and gross motor delays. Those darn reversals are getting us though. B's D's, P's, 3's there are probably a few more I'm forgetting.

[Mesa]

I've got it! BJU science only consists of 70 lessons. I can tell my ds that we can pick up Apologia together after we finish BJU. I'll just point out how much more time he will have to gather bugs and stuff outside, since he isnt reading his Apologia book right now. That'll work!

[texasmama]

Oh lol... yes, I do see your point. Perhaps handwriting should go. He does have Aspergers and SID, fine and gross motor delays. Those darn reversals are getting us though. B's D's, P's, 3's there are probably a few more I'm forgetting.

 

Sounds like you can get rid of one more thing then. :D (particularly since he is doing typing...) My child with serial killer handwriting has SID and fine and gross motor issues, as well. I have not quite given up on handwriting, but mostly I am transferring my energy to typing.

 

When I find that I can't squeeze all of that homeschooling goodness into one traditional 36 week "year", we do a light summer school. I suspect that this will be ongoing for us. If you don't generally do summer school, that might be a good option.

[regentrude]

Do you not suggest 2 math programs? I've read using a spiral program along with a mastery program was ideal.

 

I am only familiar with Saxon 8/7 - but that alone was a TON of work and we cut out problems. No way my kids would have done another math program in addition to it.

I'm no fan of spiral, but it will be fine; if done diligently, Saxon leads to mastery. Or pick the other one - but Saxon PLUS another one is too much and can turn a kid off math.

 

regentrude

[Guest]

Now I see he has Asperger's, as does my dysgraphic (ex-dysgraphic) daughter. I found it both incredibly heartening how many people on the special needs board have posted about how their ASD kids took a huge leap forward in writing skills right around age twelve -- exactly the age it happened for my daughter.

 

If you are interested, I wrote a three-part guest entry for SWB's education blog on dysgraphia and fine motor problems; it was several months ago so you'd have to scroll down to find it.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/blog

[Mesa]

I am only familiar with Saxon 8/7 - but that alone was a TON of work and we cut out problems. No way my kids would have done another math program in addition to it.

I'm no fan of spiral, but it will be fine; if done diligently, Saxon leads to mastery. Or pick the other one - but Saxon PLUS another one is too much and can turn a kid off math.

 

regentrude

 

He does even or odds in Saxon depending on the lesson number. It is a lot of work. MUS only takes him about about 10-20 min to complete.

I dont plan on sticking with saxon, I'd like to switch to Video Text once my ds is able to. (and only Video Text)

I'm leaning towards just doing MUS. I could add in a worksheet for review every once in a while, to help him review the tougher concepts.

[Mesa]

Now I see he has Asperger's, as does my dysgraphic (ex-dysgraphic) daughter. I found it both incredibly heartening how many people on the special needs board have posted about how their ASD kids took a huge leap forward in writing skills right around age twelve -- exactly the age it happened for my daughter.

 

If you are interested, I wrote a three-part guest entry for SWB's education blog on dysgraphia and fine motor problems; it was several months ago so you'd have to scroll down to find it.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/blog

 

Wow, thanks! This article hit the nail right on the head. There were so many helpful ideas here. I'm going to start implementing them right away.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Mesa

[Night Elf]

Oh lol... yes, I do see your point. Perhaps handwriting should go. He does have Aspergers and SID, fine and gross motor delays. Those darn reversals are getting us though. B's D's, P's, 3's there are probably a few more I'm forgetting.

 

Exactly what is stressing him? From your posts, it sounds like he's choosing about half of what you're doing. Have you asked him specifically how he feels about the different things? Are you sure he's okay with doing double programs, such as science, or is he saying they are fine because he thinks that is what you want to hear? Are you scheduling the things he finds interesting like Apologia? Does he know he has the option of dropping one science and focusing on just the other? Just tossing out some questions for you to think about. :)

 

BTW, my kids have never been able to do 2 math programs. I am always in awe of those who manage it, but it doesn't work at my house.

[Night Elf]

Oh lol... yes, I do see your point. Perhaps handwriting should go. He does have Aspergers and SID, fine and gross motor delays. Those darn reversals are getting us though. B's D's, P's, 3's there are probably a few more I'm forgetting.

 

My ds14, with Aspergers, doesn't like handwriting. I'm trying to get him to learn how to type properly instead of the two-index finger method. I told him he has to be proficient at one, but it's really hard for him to get used to his fingers being in a structured position over the keyboard. And when he does write with a pencil, his death grip is crazy!

[melmichigan]

No idea if this will help or not. My DD is 10, with AS and dysgraphia. Science is the love of her life, and in addition to traveling she needs more time for bugs and her own interests in science this year. I have had much resistance from her lately and I don't want to squash that love of learning.

 

I eliminated all the other math (we did MUS Epsilon slow over the summer for review) and are just doing one book, Mathematics Stucture and Method by Dolciani, it will be easy but she hates math right now, even with it being tied to higher science. We are doing a modified TOG Y2 with all SL literature, my DD loves that part of SL too.;) We are doing IEW SWI-B, the only writing my DD doesn't complain about and it does seem to be helping, but very relaxed on the 2-3 weeks per lesson. (We started this last year, and it is done on a word processing program.) I am hoping to do some grammar, but not force the issue and she is doing the HWT cursive, but only about once a week. Science is a little more up in the air because she just finished all her middle school science and wants to do conceptual physics. That is it, a bare bones year.

 

In your DS's case I would stick with AAS, which I use for my youngers, short and sweet.

 

I have all kinds of other stuff, logic, vocabulary, more LA and literature, and if she does well and needs more fine, but it isn't necessary for this child, this year. :) It was certainly hard to let it go. My motto this year, :chillpill:. I wonder if it's hormones?

Edited August 14, 2010 by melmichigan

[Mesa]

My ds14, with Aspergers, doesn't like handwriting. I'm trying to get him to learn how to type properly instead of the two-index finger method. I told him he has to be proficient at one, but it's really hard for him to get used to his fingers being in a structured position over the keyboard. And when he does write with a pencil, his death grip is crazy!

 

He chooses the reading and science, I do not schedule the Apologia (it was left over from last year) and reading... he just does it. I dont think he feels like he has to do them, because he has a schedule he looks at to see what he has to do that day. Then he checks things off as he finishes them. What stresses him out is LA, handwriting, and math. It's the act of writing things down that frustrates him with math, or he copies the problem down wrong and then he misses that problem. He hates having to erase and start all over.... and he doesnt "get" writing at all, reversals, missing capital letters etc. He cannot write a paragraph. I dont think he can get the words down on paper. Some of his anxiety could be he just doesnt enjoy LA and doesnt want to do it. Making a list of possible topics to write on stresses him out, making an outline stresses him out. He doesnt care to improve on his writing, so he's still writing things like "she likes to play. or "I had fun."

I've been letting him do math and then for a treat he does science, then after writing he gets to choose something fun which is usually science too. So thats how we've ended up with so much science and reading thats not actually scheduled, yet it's adding time to our already busy day.

 

With Piano and Guitar he asked to add in the guitar, I've asked him to choose between the two but he says he cant choose. I may have to "make" him choose between them if our days continue to be hectic.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Mesa

[Mesa]

No idea if this will help or not. My DD is 10, with AS and dysgraphia. Science is the love of her life, and in addition to traveling she needs more time for bugs and her own interests in science this year. I have had much resistance from her lately and I don't want to squash that love of learning.

 

I eliminated all the other math (we did MUS Epsilon slow over the summer for review) and are just doing one book, Mathematics Stucture and Method by Dolciani, it will be easy but she hates math right now, even with it being tied to higher science. We are doing a modified TOG Y2 with all SL literature, my DD loves that part of SL too.;) We are doing IEW SWI-B, the only writing my DD doesn't complain about and it does seem to be helping, but very relaxed on the 2-3 weeks per lesson. (We started this last year, and it is done on a word processing program.) I am hoping to do some grammar, but not force the issue and she is doing the HWT cursive, but only about once a week. Science is a little more up in the air because she just finished all her middle school science and wants to do conceptual physics. That is it, a bare bones year.

 

In your DS's case I would stick with AAS, which I use for my youngers, short and sweet.

 

I have all kinds of other stuff, logic, vocabulary, more LA and literature, and if she does well and needs more fine, but it isn't necessary for this child, this year. :) It was certainly hard to let it go. My motto this year, :chillpill:. I wonder if it's hormones?

 

It's nice to hear from parents who have children with Aspergers and SID, I didnt put that in my title because it seems like fewer people will respond with their suggestions, since they arent familiar with those specific LD's.

 

I think I'll be ok now. I'm dropping a few things, and I'll reevaluate after my ds finishes up 4th grade BJU. I think the main thing now is tweaking the remaining subjects to make the writing portion less stressful. I've allowed myself to follow the TM's as written, and then caused unnecessary anxiety in my ds. I have avoided the words and labels Aspergers and SID for so long I almost forgot about them... I'm embarrassed to say.

 

Monday is bound to be a better day!

[melmichigan]

I dont think he can get the words down on paper.

 

Does he write about science?

 

My DD started last year making baseball cards of animals. Yes, my 7 year old can draw better and write neater, but the point being she did them herself. This year she is writing up pages in a made up animal newspaper for her sisters. To me that counts. :) The fancy creative writing will come, just later.

[Mesa]

He doesnt write about science but the baseball card idea is fantastic!

[Mesa]

Hows my siggy look now?

No more IEW, Saxon, Apologia, Spanish, Handwriting

[Night Elf]

What stresses him out is LA, handwriting, and math. It's the act of writing things down that frustrates him with math, or he copies the problem down wrong and then he misses that problem. He hates having to erase and start all over....

 

My son hit that level of frustration around 4th grade, I guess when math problems were getting bigger. We started doing math on the dry erase board and to this day, he still does it that way. He just finished Algebra and will be starting Geometry next week. He'll have to use pencil & paper more, but he's more ready for it now. I realized that we never looked back at completed math problems so I didn't see a problem with using only the dry erase board. Oh, I do sit with him during math and check his work as he goes along. He prefers it that way. I'm nervous about Geometry! :tongue_smilie:

 

and he doesnt "get" writing at all, reversals, missing capital letters etc. He cannot write a paragraph. I dont think he can get the words down on paper.

 

Okay, in my opinion, if he's having problems even writing letters, then writing paragraphs is likely impossible. I don't have experience with letter reversals, so can't advise on that. I do like SWB's Writing Without Fear lecture. It might help you a little. If you want him to practice handwriting, let him do it with copywork. And you sit with him and remind him as mistakes are being made. Before he writes a word with a capital letter, stop and ask him, now what special thing do we need to do with this word when you write it? I'm still walking my son through writing. His problem is transferring ideas from his head into words for the paper. I bet the ladies on this board and the special needs board will have very helpful ideas for letter reversals.

 

Some of his anxiety could be he just doesnt enjoy LA and doesnt want to do it. Making a list of possible topics to write on stresses him out, making an outline stresses him out. He doesnt care to improve on his writing, so he's still writing things like "she likes to play. or "I had fun."

 

Well yeah he hates it. He still has trouble with some basics. As for choosing topics, my son can't do it either. He is not a creative writer. He has never been and he never will be. SWB addresses that in her lecture as well. Ds does better when I give him a topic to write about and then we brainstorm ideas together. I still can't just give him a topic and have him run with it. So, I can relate to your problem there. Also, try other graphic organizers and not just outlines. He might see in pictures so a mind map might make more sense. Remember that AS is a neurological disorder and our guys see things differently. The difference between my son's writing and my dd's writing is quite significant. She has a knack and he doesn't. I have to help him where he is and not where I want him to be.

 

I've been letting him do math and then for a treat he does science, then after writing he gets to choose something fun which is usually science too. So thats how we've ended up with so much science and reading thats not actually scheduled, yet it's adding time to our already busy day.

 

Have you thought about trying to schedule time instead of lessons? Some kids work better when they know they only have to sit and work for a certain period of time. Some like timers, but my son isn't one. Also, I just listened to a fascinating lecture by Andrew Pudewa (IEW guy) called Teaching Boys and Other Children Who Would Rather Make Forts All Day. It's all about gender differences. I wish I had known those things when my guy was younger. I feel bad, even now, because I keep him at the table longer than he needs to be. Boys do better when they aren't sitting still for long periods of time. I'm going to try getting my son up from the table to move around a bit while we're working. We've been known to sit here for over 2 hours at a time. He gets this zonked out look in his eyes. I should be more proactive in making sure he doesn't reach that point.

 

Okay, I wrote WAY too much. Sorry. :)

[Mesa]

Thank you Beth that was very helpful. I'll have to look into that book, I've seen it there and have always wanted to try it out. I dont know why i havent. I think Andrew Pudewa has a gift for teaching.

[sbgrace]

It sounds like you've worked much of this out and I'm glad for you!

I wanted to add something. My son has dysgraphia like issues and I, too, found the writing by KarenAnne to be really helpful here.

 

On the reversals--I found a site that described a "trick" for reversals that has really seemed to help my kiddo. http://ontrackreading.com/tidbits/telling-b-from-d/ When you say b you make a straight line with your mouth--so it starts out with a line, d is open or "o" and starts off with the open/curve. The p also is a "straight mouth" letter while the q is more open or round. It might help?

[Corraleno]

For math, have you considered Teaching Textbooks? The lessons are short & sweet like MUS, with 20 or so fairly simple/straightforward problems, but the problems sets are spiral — a few problems on the new topic and the rest are review of previous topics. Plus, up to 7th grade, it's all on the computer, so that would minimize the writing issues.

 

For LA, I would take one of two approaches:

(1) MCT "Island" level for grammar, vocab and writing. The writing at this level only covers writing good sentences, so it may be just right for the level he's at. It's a very low-stress program because it's designed to be read together, curled up on the sofa, and a lot of it is oral rather than written. The practice book has sentences to label (not diagram), but you'd only need to do one sentence 2-3 times/week and it only takes a few minutes.

(2) Minimize LA altogether by using a really simple grammar program with minimal writing, like Junior Analytical Grammar or Easy Grammar — or even Madlibs! And then do writing just for science. Teaching Science with Interactive Notebooks (or any of the similar books on Amazon) can give you lots of ideas for implementing this. I would get some fun books on experiments, let him do lots of bug-catching and nature study, and have him record everything in his notebook. Science notebooks can include writing, drawing, photos, pressed leaves, collage, etc. — any medium he would want to use to record his experiments and observations.

 

My DS12 also has SID/dyslexia/dysgraphia, and he also loves science and history and dislikes LA and math. MCT has been great for him, and I dropped IEW (which he absolutely hated). He uses SpongeBob Typing, which is fun and silly enough to not seem like work, but still effective. He also likes to write and illustrate stories using Comic Life software. His last comic (using photos he took of lego "sets" he built and minifig "actors") was 20 pages long! Somehow it doesn't seem like "writing" when you're typing dialogue and exposition into a comic. :D

 

Jackie

[NanceXToo]

I see you are dropping some things. I think that's great! I think the problem with this kind of thing is (and I mean this in the nicest way possible) that some moms research all these curricula, decide they can't possibly decide between X, Y, and Z, so next thing you know, little Johnny has to do ALL of them. Because Mom couldn't decide on one. And that isn't fair, really to the kid. I agree that there seemed to be way too much duplication in all these subjects from your original post. So glad to see you decided to drop some!

 

Could you put handwriting off for now (if you haven't already), work on typing instead, and let him worry about handwriting down the road when he's a little older and less anxious?

 

You know what? As far back as I can remember in elementary school I always loved to write- short stories, essays, eventually poems, and all sorts of things. But I also always had atrocious handwriting. Every single report card that came home would comment on my poor handwriting. The truth is... my handwriting is STILL bad. Not because teachers didn't work on it with me. But because it just is. Maybe my mind goes faster than my mind can keep up with and the result is sloppy. Maybe my hand gets tired and cramped after just a couple of lines of writing. (It does!) I rarely NEED to handwrite things, though. Most things can be typed and anything I have to handwrite is brief. And when I WANT to make myself slow down and try to write neater- I can/do. But it's an effort. And I don't think being made to do yet more handwriting ever made a difference.

 

And if there's a subject he loves, I'd definitely encourage his interest in that, even if it means letting other things go to some extent. Maybe that's his path in life. Give him the time and the resources and the support to find that out. :)

[Mommy of boys]

Sounds like you both are working hard and he's learning a lot. He's probably ahead of most kids his age. Don't be discouraged. I'm in a couple of teaching positions, one with my own children and one with our kids at church on Wednesday night. One thing I've learned is that when I start to get discouraged as a teacher, it permeates the whole class. And on the flip side, if I show excitement and desire to do the activity or lesson, they show it too.

I would take a good look at the curriculum and see where something needs to change possibly. I'd even talk to your son and see what subjects he absolutely dreads and see if something can be adjusted. You can't always cater to the child and they're going to have to do some things that require more work than they may want to put in, but you may find that there is an easy doable change that can be made.

I'm only in the kindergarten years with mine, so I'm sure I'll hit this point with mine later. But I had a similiar situation figuring out if my four year old, turning 5 a couple of weeks after the public school cut off date was ready for K or not. I was pushing and he was complaining. I had to do some serious praying and the Lord showed us some areas to change. We're doing K-4 and we've found a "happy place" with school:) Keep going and have fun with him.

One thought about handwriting...Is he writing in cursive or print? I didn't read all of the responses, to see if someone asked this. A lot of kids who struggle with print move on to Cursive and do great. A program I like is Cursive First. It goes along with Spell to Write and Read (SWR) that is the same approach as Phonics Road, but laid out differently. It's not as open and go, but we're using it because it fits us. For Cursive First, I like how they show that the cursive letters are just print letters "holding hands" Here's a link to an example on the SWR yahoo group that shows this.

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/UJNmTHv-MLQCsNmTswnaaVTzI2PvA_iMZOkEU62nxKZHwhbmOyjPRKSXWmqLX8dM2_3HSNMb5aM7wzK4lx0HlNwI9THdGfAon4Tj/Cursive%20penmanship/Cursive%20letters%20holding%20hands.jpg

 

Cursive helps with dyslexia because all the letters move from left to right and you don't pick up your pencil when you write them.

I hope it gets better and keep up the good work.

Ashley

:grouphug:

[Ellie]

Saxon:

I know it's technically labeled incremental, but I still call it spiral. It goes over the SAME concepts over and over. MUS works beautifully to introduce a concept and teach him "tricks" but he does not retain that knowlege for any length of time. Which is where the Saxon worksheets have come in handy.

Spiral doesn't go over the same concepts over and over. Spiral teaches some, goes to the next concept, then to the next, then comes back to the first, then to the next, then to the next. Spiral. Saxon teaches a little about about a new concept then has more teaching on previous concepts; the next lesson has a little more about the new concept, then does previous concepts; the next lesson focuses on the new concept with just some of previous topics; the next lesson introduces a little bitty bit of a new concept, mostly the last concept, some of previous concepts. See?

 

I'm not sure what to do here. He needs the MUS lesson but with the "spiral" of Saxon. I'm really stumped as to what to do here.

Pick one. He will be fine either way. Both is too much. Really. If you (or he) were not feeling overwhelmed, we wouldn't be having this conversation, right? So pick one. It will be fine.

Again the phonics road 1 is only used as our spelling program right now since it is so far below this childs grade level. I can see how IEW can be dropped.

 

Since we are not doing a Spelling program I dont see this as being overkill. I am hoping PR becomes a full language program as we progress through the levels.

Phonics Road is very teacher directed, isn't it? Possibly, if you think he needs something specific for spelling, you could choose something else for spelling, like BJUP, or Rod and Staff's Spelling by Sound and Structure. Or, if you want it to be your full language program, just do it now and drop IEW and BJUP's grammar/comp and reading.

 

Sonlight and BJU Yes, again redundant. My son enjoys the stories in BJU and likes the cheesy video lessons. He insists on doing the Reading in BJU, I'd prefer to skip this. Sonlight is his favorite curriculum EVER. and since this subject is his strength I dont see why I need to trim this one down.

 

Reading and science are his favorite subjects so I have allowed him to "run wild" there. I just can't cut reading and science down. Now LA on the other hand... yes I do need help cutting out stuff there.

Well, you said he's feeling stressed out. That means that even though he "enjoys" what he's doing, something has to change.

 

When you ask for advice because what you're doing is not working, yet you argue in favor of keeping everything the same, well, I have to ask what the point was in your asking in the first place.

 

:confused:

[mama2cntrykids]

I may be different than the mainstream...

 

Go with what he likes!!! Give him a break!! If he LOVES science, then let him do it to his heart's content, seek out avenues where he can apply what he's learned (local science museums, create your own lab experiments..do it with him for FUN)...let him READ, but make sure he is reading GOOD literature..there is a time for twaddle but a SOLID reading selection WILL help his grammar/spelling/vocabulary through immersion...

 

I just couldn't put my son through grammar...no joy of learning and how can I honestly say it's important to do the SAME lessons each year, when if the child is bright enough...2 years of direct study after years of reading great literature will suffice and probably even mean more? (We use analytical grammar and love it)

 

I did not homeschool to duplicate a school room type of learning, I did it to foster the LOVE of learning in all my children, sometimes I fail, sometimes I succeed, but they are all so wonderfully and uniquely created that their learning path also should approach a parallel.

 

HTH!

Tara

Words of wisdom Tara! I need this reminder quite often in our home school!

 

Now I see he has Asperger's, as does my dysgraphic (ex-dysgraphic) daughter. I found it both incredibly heartening how many people on the special needs board have posted about how their ASD kids took a huge leap forward in writing skills right around age twelve -- exactly the age it happened for my daughter.

 

If you are interested, I wrote a three-part guest entry for SWB's education blog on dysgraphia and fine motor problems; it was several months ago so you'd have to scroll down to find it.

 

www.welltrainedmind.com/blog

KarenAnne-I loved what you wrote! I've read it twice since it was put on the blog. I have it marked in my faveorites, but still need to print it out. It's easier for me to have it printed out to refer back to when needed (often, lol).

 

Could you put handwriting off for now (if you haven't already), work on typing instead, and let him worry about handwriting down the road when he's a little older and less anxious?

 

And if there's a subject he loves, I'd definitely encourage his interest in that, even if it means letting other things go to some extent. Maybe that's his path in life. Give him the time and the resources and the support to find that out. :)

I love your way of thinking too! Even though I'm not the OP, I certainly appreciate it!

[EKS]

He does have Aspergers and SID, fine and gross motor delays. Those darn reversals are getting us though. B's D's, P's, 3's there are probably a few more I'm forgetting.

 

If this is the case, I would definately replace HWT with typing. Once he is able to type well, everything will go much better (if he is anything like my son, and he might be as my son has been diagnosed with everything you listed). His writing will likely improve quite a bit as well. Being able to type has changed my son's life.

 

Also, with these issues I would do as much as possible orally. That will streamline your day and save his writing energy for real writing.

Edited August 14, 2010 by EKS

[Ellie]

He does even or odds in Saxon depending on the lesson number. It is a lot of work. MUS only takes him about about 10-20 min to complete.

Skipping problems with Saxon math is a recipe for disaster.

 

I'm leaning towards just doing MUS. I could add in a worksheet for review every once in a while, to help him review the tougher concepts.

Then do it.:-)