Can you help me diagnose this stomach pain in dd...could this be serious?

[4kids4me]

DD, 12, got her cycle in June. At day 13 she had really bad stomach pain. She didn't have nausea, but her lower abdomen hurt a lot (she really couldn't describe it, but said it felt more like bad cramps than anything else). Eventually it hurt so much she threw up several times, but not like a stomach bug throw up, more like she was in so much pain that vomiting made it feel better. Later on in the day her perineum became quite sore. The next day she felt fine, but the muscles in her lower abdomen hurt quite a bit. I wondered if maybe she was ovulating.

 

Fast forward to this month. She got her cycle again after 45 days and it lasted the normal seven days. On day eight she got sick again. She had major lower abdomen pain for 15 hours (at times she'd roll on the bed or couch in pain) and she vomited about once an hour, but again, it wasn't like it was a ton like one would get when they have the 24-hour flu. Again she had pain in her lower abdomen. At one point she had a shooting pain from her lower abdomen down through her perineum and she cried out because it hurt so badly. Her perineum wasn't sore this time. Again, the day after her lower ab muscles are sore and she's better.

 

So, any ideas with what this could be? Could it be a fluke and she's had two months of the 24-hour bug? I'm wondering if I can rule out ovulation since she got sick so close to her period ending. Could it be the beginning of something being wrong with her appendix? Should I just wait one more cycle and see if she gets sick again?

 

Note: this is a girl that doesn't complain about stuff unless it's serious, so I'm pretty concerned.

 

Thanks, Hive!!!!

 

ETA: Could it possibly be a kidney stone??? Could it hurt one month, then do nothing, then hurt again? She just said the pain was mostly crampy, but it hurt to urinate, but thought that it hurt to urinate mostly because her lower abdomen was hurting so much. Also, it was 39 days between the two episodes.

Edited July 31, 2010 by 4kids4me

[Audrey]

DD, 12, got her cycle in June. At day 13 she had really bad stomach pain. She didn't have nausea, but her lower abdomen hurt a lot (she really couldn't describe it, but said it felt more like bad cramps than anything else). Eventually it hurt so much she threw up several times, but not like a stomach bug throw up, more like she was in so much pain that vomiting made it feel better. Later on in the day her perineum became quite sore. The next day she felt fine, but the muscles in her lower abdomen hurt quite a bit. I wondered if maybe she was ovulating.

 

Fast forward to this month. She got her cycle again after 45 days and it lasted the normal seven days. On day eight she got sick again. She had major lower abdomen pain for 15 hours (at times she'd roll on the bed or couch in pain) and she vomited about once an hour, but again, it wasn't like it was a ton like one would get when they have the 24-hour flu. Again she had pain in her lower abdomen. At one point she had a shooting pain from her lower abdomen down through her perineum and she cried out because it hurt so badly. Her perineum wasn't sore this time. Again, the day after her lower ab muscles are sore and she's better.

 

So, any ideas with what this could be? Could it be a fluke and she's had two months of the 24-hour bug? I'm wondering if I can rule out ovulation since she got sick so close to her period ending. Could it be the beginning of something being wrong with her appendix? Should I just wait one more cycle and see if she gets sick again?

 

Note: this is a girl that doesn't complain about stuff unless it's serious, so I'm pretty concerned.

 

Thanks, Hive!!!!

 

 

Honestly, I think you should take her to a doctor. One shouldn't be having vomiting and that much pain during the menstrual cycle. The coincidence of pain to menstruation is too alarming to me. It could be internal issues that haven't been diagnosed. It could be nothing. But, I'd want a doctor to examine her and get to the bottom of it right now.

[4kids4me]

Well, it was after her cycle...so the first time it was day 13 of her cycle, and the second time it was day 8, which was the first day after her cycle ended. So...thoughts on that?

[LisaKinVA]

I'm thinking Cysts...and those are not fun.

[Daisy]

Honestly, I think you should take her to a doctor. One shouldn't be having vomiting and that much pain during the menstrual cycle. The coincidence of pain to menstruation is too alarming to me. It could be internal issues that haven't been diagnosed. It could be nothing. But, I'd want a doctor to examine her and get to the bottom of it right now.

 

:iagree:

[Impish]

Sounds like cysts to me too. Dr time, def.

[4kids4me]

I'm thinking Cysts...and those are not fun.

 

Sigh...but my baby is only 12! I can't believe she'd have to deal with that so young. :sad:

[littlebug42]

My first thought was ovarian cysts. I would have it checked out.

 

ETA: I just googled these symptoms and they all fit endometriosis. I have a friend who has suffered effects from that since she was a teen.

Edited July 31, 2010 by littlebug42

[Danestress]

It might have absolutely nothing to do with woman stuff. Even women get appendicitis and other ills.

 

On the other hand, I don't think it's really normal even if it is related to her cycle. If that happened to me even one month, I would be getting it checked out.

[4kids4me]

Hmmm...all of you are in agreement that I should go in, so I guess that's clear! I appreciate all of the responses!

[Gooblink]

My first thought was ovarian cysts. I would have it checked out.

 

ETA: I just googled these symptoms and they all fit endometriosis. I have a friend who has suffered effects from that since she was a teen.

 

Ditto. My cousin suffered like this all through her teens and into her twenties. She was really angry that her parents hadn't taken her symptoms seriously, because by the time she was married and able to take financial responsibility for her own medical care, she was unable to conceive.

 

Definitely see a doctor. Or two. And best wishes. :grouphug:

[EKS]

ETA: I just googled these symptoms and they all fit endometriosis. I have a friend who has suffered effects from that since she was a teen.

 

This was my first thought too, based on an experience with a friend.

[sbgrace]

Endometriosis is consistent with those symptoms and they now know it can occur even in young teens. I mention it even though it's been mentioned because some doctors still falsely believe this is a disease of the 20's or 30's or older and that's not the case so make sure that is considered if there isn't another explanation.

[MorganClassicalPrep]

After reading your post, the first thing that came to mind was endometriosis, and I see other posters have suggested it. The pain associated with endo can come at anytime during the cycle, and endo shows up in a different way in everyone. I have severe pain (worse than labor!) on the first day of my period, and often end up rolling around on the couch/bed, crying in pain. I've also thrown up because it just hurts that bad. I also have bowel symptoms associated with it.

 

When I had the laproscopic procedure to diagnose, at 17, I was told I'd probably never have children, because I had already developed that much scar tissue. The doctor considered it a miracle when I got pregnant with my daughter.

 

If it were my daughter, I'd take her to the dr. As a teen, taking birth control pills helped manage my pain.

[MorganClassicalPrep]

Endometriosis is consistent with those symptoms and they now know it can occur even in young teens. I mention it even though it's been mentioned because some doctors still falsely believe this is a disease of the 20's or 30's or older and that's not the case so make sure that is considered if there isn't another explanation.

 

:glare: I started experiencing symptoms with my very first cycle at 13 and had a number of different drs tell me it was normal or that it was all in my head. They also suggested to my mom that I was just trying to get out of school. I was almost 18 before I finally was diagnosed, and only after researching on my own, guessing that it was endo, and going to a dr who was recommended to deal with it.

[lisabelle]

I have to say, I thought of endometriosis too.

[4kids4me]

Holy crapoly, I can't believe that so many people think it's endo...like I mentioned before, she's just a baby at 12!!!!! (Technically at 5'7" she's not a baby, but still, my firstborn and all...)

 

I will be very adamant about seeking an answer. I have a lovely female doctor, so I'm sure it won't be hard to get my dd the help she needs.

 

Sigh. Why do they have to grow up???

[Pegasus]

:grouphug: I have no answers for you but as a mother of a DD13 and DD10 I just had to let you know that I'm sorry your DD is suffering so!

 

Pegasus

[4kids4me]

:grouphug: I have no answers for you but as a mother of a DD13 and DD10 I just had to let you know that I'm sorry your DD is suffering so!

 

Pegasus

 

Ah, thanks. It's hard to see her in a lot of pain.

[Supertechmom]

I was that 12 year old with endo!! IT took 2 years and a near death experience with my appendix before being dx and put on birth control pills. It's a long story but the short of it was they had to do exploratory surgery to find the appendicitis (Long story on that!) and went on to check out all the other parts and discovered things were a mess. Things are fine now but those first few years were horrible. It did get much better after they "cleaned it all out" (and no I really don't know what that means I was like 14 :001_smile:)

 

IT is very possible and don't take a no until they do as much testing as possible.

[4kids4me]

I was that 12 year old with endo!! IT took 2 years and a near death experience with my appendix before being dx and put on birth control pills. It's a long story but the short of it was they had to do exploratory surgery to find the appendicitis (Long story on that!) and went on to check out all the other parts and discovered things were a mess. Things are fine now but those first few years were horrible. It did get much better after they "cleaned it all out" (and no I really don't know what that means I was like 14 :001_smile:)

 

IT is very possible and don't take a no until they do as much testing as possible.

 

Oh my goodness...that would be so horrible, *especially* for a girl so young. With dd having only two cycles she's still in the "embarrassed" mode when I talk about it -- it's all so new to her. To have the pain that has followed her cycles both times has been hard. I'll definitely get this looked at.

[Athome]

I would definitely check in with your doctor. Poor thing.

[Dolphin]

Hopefully it is just cysts, but make sure they find out for sure. It is not overly common, but it could be little tiny gall stones. I started having periods like that around the age of 12. At 14 I would have some where the pain was much more intense, about twice a year. For lack of other things the doctor said it was ovarian cysts. I just dealt with it, and felt bad that I got sick so often. When I was 33 a stone got caught in my pancreas and I had to spend 10 days in the hospital. I had lots of stones, they were just very small. I finally don't have to deal with pain and it is wonderful. Just know that there is an explanation and don't let them tell you that it is normal and she will grow out of it.

Good luck.

[Audrey]

Holy crapoly, I can't believe that so many people think it's endo...like I mentioned before, she's just a baby at 12!!!!! (Technically at 5'7" she's not a baby, but still, my firstborn and all...)

 

I will be very adamant about seeking an answer. I have a lovely female doctor, so I'm sure it won't be hard to get my dd the help she needs.

 

Sigh. Why do they have to grow up???

 

 

It's really great that you're concerned and wanting to get her help now. The earlier these things get detected, the earlier they can get treated. I know the growing up is hard, but you're doing it right, mom. :grouphug:

[4kids4me]

Thanks to everyone for the advice, encouragement and cyber hugs. It is SO much appreciated and very welcome, especially since dh is gone for two weeks.

[Impish]

Thanks to everyone for the advice, encouragement and cyber hugs. It is SO much appreciated and very welcome, especially since dh is gone for two weeks.

Isn't that always when things hit the fan? When dh is out of town? Never failed around here, anyways, including barely home from a severe kidney infection that had me in the hospital for 4 days...I was readmitted when Princess wasn't even 48 hrs old, and Wolf was across the country 72 hrs after I came home, gone for a week.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

[4kids4me]

Isn't that always when things hit the fan? When dh is out of town? Never failed around here, anyways, including barely home from a severe kidney infection that had me in the hospital for 4 days...I was readmitted when Princess wasn't even 48 hrs old, and Wolf was across the country 72 hrs after I came home, gone for a week.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Yup, Murphy's Law. :) Having said that, dh WAS home the first time, but I thought dd was just sick. Two times in two months? Perhaps not a coincidence. She was sick the day I got a call from the vet telling me my new dog has worms, so I was trying to clean the house, etc, and deep down freaking out about the grossness factor of the worms. :)

[mhg]

I was an Women's Health Nurse Practitioner before being a SAHM.

 

If it just began with menarche (onset of menstrual cycles), it's obviously gynecological and not GI related. The intensity of the pain to the point of vomitting sounds like something structural: cysts, torqued ovary, etc.

The fact that it was cycle day 13 last time suggests cysts as that's ovulation time obviously. The fact that it occured again on cycle day 8 also suggests ovary because cycle day 6 - 8 is when the ovarian follicles compete for who's egg-of-the-month and once the debate is over, the follicles quit competing and pool their resources to strengthen the BEST egg (this is a simple/colloquial way of stating a physiological fact) -- but, in short, cycle day 8 - 14 is height of ovarian activity.

 

Endometriosis is rare in that age, but it could be the case. The 3 primary symptoms of endo are dyschezia (pain with pooping), dysmenorrhea (pain WITH the menses itself ---- you can have pain at other times in cycle but worst during flow and usually somewhat relieved with cessation of flow), and thirdly dyspareunia (pain with sex which hopefully isn't going on at all at age 12/unmarried).

 

To rule out this being just initial / start up ovarian activity (from a heretofore relatively DORMANT ovary), I'd give her Naproxen (Aleve) 440 mg (2 tablets as I think Aleve is 220 mg / tablet) every 12 hours on cycle days 7 - 14 and use a heating pad during times of pain and SEE if these things improve. If it's a structural issue, large ovarian cyst or torqued ovary, it won't improve. If it's endometriosis, these things won't improve it either.

 

My guess is that it's ovarian INITIATION from a heretofore dormant organ.

I have no idea why the perineum would hurt (possible referred pain).

 

Make sure she hasn't left a tampon in after first cycle.....as you'd be surprised what all I've had to retrieve: mesh bags full of garlic cloves, tampons, ... (I'll spare you all more examples). Esp with first time users of such products (I don't recommend tampons ANYWAY), but ---- rule this out, although she'd get infection symptoms with this (fever, chills, etc.)...so I HIGHLY doubt this.

 

Also doubt it's adenomyosis.

 

And, one more thing to reassure you...if it was a torqued ovary, the pain would progress to the point where you'd clearly need to go to ER so I doubt this is it either.

 

I'd see her doctor or NP about it in any case.

 

I wouldn't want her taking Aleve for 1 week out of each month from here on out. Growing up I had to take it cycle day 2 my entire life for severe cramps.

 

Bless her heart. I'll say a prayer for her speedy recovery.

Edited August 1, 2010 by mhg
adding one more reassurance

[4kids4me]

I was an Women's Health Nurse Practitioner before being a SAHM.

 

If it just began with menarche (onset of menstrual cycles), it's obviously gynecological and not GI related. The intensity of the pain to the point of vomitting sounds like something structural: cysts, torqued ovary, etc.

The fact that it was cycle day 13 last time suggests cysts as that's ovulation time obviously. The fact that it occured again on cycle day 8 also suggests ovary because cycle day 6 - 8 is when the ovarian follicles compete for who's egg-of-the-month and once the debate is over, the follicles quit competing and pool their resources to strengthen the BEST egg (this is a simple/colloquial way of stating a physiological fact) -- but, in short, cycle day 8 - 14 is height of ovarian activity.

 

Endometriosis is rare in that age, but it could be the case. The 3 primary symptoms of endo are dyschezia (pain with pooping), dysmenorrhea (pain WITH the menses itself ---- you can have pain at other times in cycle but worst during flow and usually somewhat relieved with cessation of flow), and thirdly dyspareunia (pain with sex which hopefully isn't going on at all at age 12/unmarried).

 

To rule out this being just initial / start up ovarian activity (from a heretofore relatively DORMANT ovary), I'd give her Naproxen (Aleve) 440 mg (2 tablets as I think Aleve is 220 mg / tablet) every 12 hours on cycle days 7 - 14 and use a heating pad during times of pain and SEE if these things improve. If it's a structural issue, large ovarian cyst or torqued ovary, it won't improve. If it's endometriosis, these things won't improve it either.

 

My guess is that it's ovarian INITIATION from a heretofore dormant organ.

I have no idea why the perineum would hurt (possible referred pain).

 

Make sure she hasn't left a tampon in after first cycle.....as you'd be surprised what all I've had to retrieve: mesh bags full of garlic cloves, tampons, ... (I'll spare you all more examples). Esp with first time users of such products (I don't recommend tampons ANYWAY), but ---- rule this out, although she'd get infection symptoms with this (fever, chills, etc.)...so I HIGHLY doubt this.

 

Also doubt it's adenomyosis.

 

And, one more thing to reassure you...if it was a torqued ovary, the pain would progress to the point where you'd clearly need to go to ER so I doubt this is it either.

 

I'd see her doctor or NP about it in any case.

 

I wouldn't want her taking Aleve for 1 week out of each month from here on out. Growing up I had to take it cycle day 2 my entire life for severe cramps.

 

Bless her heart. I'll say a prayer for her speedy recovery.

 

If I give her Naproxen (will check with dr. first), will it help if she's vomiting so much? Won't it just leave her system as soon as she throws up? Also, it's hard to tell about your endo symptoms because she has no pain during her cycle (still very, very light, too...like only mini-pads are used) and she is not having s*x.

 

Thanks for the info and advice!

[Starr]

I think the idea is to get the Naproxen in her and working before the pain gets so bad she begins to vomit.

[mhg]

One more thing....

again, taking 440mg of Aleve every twelve hours for the cycle days 8-14 is ok for these first few months.....but eventually I'd try to use it only on the WORST day or two of my cycle.

 

last thing I want to clarify. She's needs to see doc or NP to have a pelvic ultrasound to make sure it's not a cyst that could rupture. So....I wouldn't head to the ER (unless she's in that intense pain again), but I'd make myself an appointment and see a professional this week to check it out. Again.....to reassure you, mom, ---- it's most likely just ovarian initiation.

 

lastly, don't think Tylenol/Aspirin will do the trick.....Naproxen sodium works best to shut those hyper uterine prostaglandins UP!

[4kids4me]

I think the idea is to get the Naproxen in her and working before the pain gets so bad she begins to vomit.

 

LOL, ya, that's kind of a "duh" moment for me. When I think back to it, there was a few hours warning before the vomiting started, so technically I could have given it to her.

[4kids4me]

One more thing....

again, taking 440mg of Aleve every twelve hours for the cycle days 8-14 is ok for these first few months.....but eventually I'd try to use it only on the WORST day or two of my cycle.

 

last thing I want to clarify. She's needs to see doc or NP to have a pelvic ultrasound to make sure it's not a cyst that could rupture. So....I wouldn't head to the ER (unless she's in that intense pain again), but I'd make myself an appointment and see a professional this week to check it out. Again.....to reassure you, mom, ---- it's most likely just ovarian initiation.

 

lastly, don't think Tylenol/Aspirin will do the trick.....Naproxen sodium works best to shut those hyper uterine prostaglandins UP!

 

Thanks so much. I'll call the doctor next week. :)

[Tap]

It's really great that you're concerned and wanting to get her help now. The earlier these things get detected, the earlier they can get treated. I know the growing up is hard, but you're doing it right, mom. :grouphug:

 

:iagree:

[4kids4me]

Again, thanks SO much for all the encouragement and advice. I really appreciate how many people responded!

[Denisemomof4]

I'm thinking Cysts...and those are not fun.

 

I used to roll on the floor from ovarian cysts. The pain was EXCRUCIATING. I was given medicine to make them pop.

 

The timing, though, makes me think it's not cysts. YOu get these while ovulating.

[mhg]

I knew I was typing too late to be coherent.

More clarification.

When I say ovarian initiation what I mean is that for months (years) before a girl begins her cycle, the brain (pituitary) sends hormones (FSH) to get the ovary to GROW follicles/eggs, and so -- in effect --- the ovary is bombarded by this FSH for a long time before the egg is released. Thus it's not uncommon for a young lady's ovary to be covered with large follicles/cysts. Now that she's able to finally ovulate (and that pituitary gets the message, "ALRIGHT ALREADY--- enough of that FSH, we're sending an EGG out!!"), the FSH will be secreted in more normal amounts. But...getting the heretofore overbombard ovary to settle down and get the mound of humongo follicles and small (or large) cysts cleared off can takes months and months. Thus why I said the Aleve could help. But....in any event, she needs to get the ultrasound (NOT a CT scan or MRI) to make sure it's not an about-to-rupture cyst (one that has gotten THAT large). For her to be in such pain that enduces vomitting, --- your mama instincts are correct that it needs to be checked out. And if it is a cyst, don't be surprised if they suggest birth control pills to shrink it (it's the best course of action in most cases).

Best wishes.

Edited August 1, 2010 by mhg

[Dobela]

Holy crapoly, I can't believe that so many people think it's endo...like I mentioned before, she's just a baby at 12!!!!! (Technically at 5'7" she's not a baby, but still, my firstborn and all...)

 

I will be very adamant about seeking an answer. I have a lovely female doctor, so I'm sure it won't be hard to get my dd the help she needs.

 

Sigh. Why do they have to grow up???

I had my first cycle at age 9. By age 12 I was having the problems you have been describing for your dd. It took years and years for me to finally find a dr to describe me with cysts and endometriosis. By the time I was 19 my cycles were so irregular and painful that I was actually suicidal at one point. Unfortunately I was so messed up by age 25 that I was never able to conceive.

 

Cysts and endo can occur at any age. A few years ago I read a report on endo that said evidence of it had been found even in a few infants - long before their cycles ever began - and in some quite elderly women who had no previous problems.

[Dobela]

I used to roll on the floor from ovarian cysts. The pain was EXCRUCIATING. I was given medicine to make them pop.

 

The timing, though, makes me think it's not cysts. YOu get these while ovulating.

I had cysts rupture at all points in my cycle before they were finally controlled (by a hysterectomy at age 35).

[4kids4me]

I knew I was typing too late to be coherent.

More clarification.

When I say ovarian initiation what I mean is that for months (years) before a girl begins her cycle, the brain (pituitary) sends hormones (FSH) to get the ovary to GROW follicles/eggs, and so -- in effect --- the ovary is bombarded by this FSH for a long time before the egg is released. Thus it's not uncommon for a young lady's ovary to be covered with large follicles/cysts. Now that she's able to finally ovulate (and that pituitary gets the message, "ALRIGHT ALREADY--- enough of that FSH, we're sending an EGG out!!"), the FSH will be secreted in more normal amounts. But...getting the heretofore overbombard ovary to settle down and get the mound of humongo follicles and small (or large) cysts cleared off can takes months and months. Thus why I said the Aleve could help. But....in any event, she needs to get the ultrasound (NOT a CT scan or MRI) to make sure it's not an about-to-rupture cyst (one that has gotten THAT large). For her to be in such pain that enduces vomitting, --- your mama instincts are correct that it needs to be checked out. And if it is a cyst, don't be surprised if they suggest birth control pills to shrink it (it's the best course of action in most cases).

Best wishes.

 

Well, I will admit that you used some big words last night. :D Thanks for clarifying and I'll talk to the doctor about this. I mentioned before that I have a lovely female doctor, so I'm sure she'll take me seriously.

[4kids4me]

It makes me so sad to read people's stories of pain, especially at such a young age. Hysterectomy at 35, suicidal thoughts from another, rolling on the ground....so sad! I'm sorry to hear about these sad stories. It gives me more fuel to get this figured out now, though. Thanks!

 

Blessings,

Caralyn

[Audrey]

It makes me so sad to read people's stories of pain, especially at such a young age. Hysterectomy at 35, suicidal thoughts from another, rolling on the ground....so sad! I'm sorry to hear about these sad stories. It gives me more fuel to get this figured out now, though. Thanks!

 

Blessings,

Caralyn

 

 

Caralyn, I just noticed you're in Canada. :) I don't know where you are located, but just wanted to say, don't hesitate to discuss a referral to a specialist with your doctor. (I'm assuming she's your family doctor). I have a niece who had endo. The GP suspected it, but it was the specialist who ended up diagnosing and treating it. She is in her late 20's now, but was in her teens at the time (I don't know when the trouble started). She got great care, and she has 2 kids now and seems quite healthy.

[4kids4me]

Caralyn, I just noticed you're in Canada. :) I don't know where you are located, but just wanted to say, don't hesitate to discuss a referral to a specialist with your doctor. (I'm assuming she's your family doctor). I have a niece who had endo. The GP suspected it, but it was the specialist who ended up diagnosing and treating it. She is in her late 20's now, but was in her teens at the time (I don't know when the trouble started). She got great care, and she has 2 kids now and seems quite healthy.

 

I think it won't be hard to get a specialist...we're near Toronto. I'll just have to ask if we could pretty please have a female specialist...it's hard enough being 12 and having a cycle, let alone actually having problems!!! There's nothing more embarrassing for a young lady. Thanks for the advice. :)

[Once Again]

Take her to a doctor. I had my first ovarian cyst at age 12, just a couple of months after I started having periods.