Can I hear your reasons for Not using Math U See?

[WhereHopeGrows]

I am curious why people do not choose this program, or why they leave MUS. My daughter has been happily using it through Delta. We had started with Singapore, but that did not click with me, so I started MUS. I needed something that would help me teach math.

 

Now I am planning for next year and I was peeking at Teaching Textbooks because it explains each problem, step by step But part of me wants to stick with MUS until she is done with Zeta (which completes the lower level math.) Any thoughts? Thanks! :)

Edited June 10, 2010 by WhereHopeGrows

[Alenee]

I don't think there's any problem with your plan. I think some might leave MUS because they aren't comfortable spending the time to watch the dvd and then teach. I, otoh, would allow my kids to watch the dvd themselves and then grade their work and explain anything that they didn't understand.

 

I switched my oldest out of MUS to Saxon for the simple reason that she needed a bit more spiral review. She's now working through LoF Fractions because frankly, it's just more interesting. After she finishes fractions and decimals & percents, we will decide whether to continue with LoF, go back to MUS, or back to Saxon. So far, I'm leaning toward LoF because there is a ton of review built into each question and it brings real logic into the program, whereas other programs just drill, drill, drill. It is a rare thing in life to see a math question written in numerical form. I would say at least 75% of the problems in LoF are written in word form. This requires real thought, not just simple memorization.

[walkermamaof4]

My children did 3 levels of MUS and weren't scoring well on standardized tests, weren't understanding math concepts (this surprised me), and weren't retaining their facts. I downloaded MEP, which is free and teaches concepts well, I bought Rightstart, and I bought Math Mammoth. I am loving these curricula which all teach math at a conceptual level better I felt than did MUS and my kids are learning. That is why we switched. Now we sort of hodge podge all 3 but we are learning so much!

[ElizabethB]

I switched after reading Liping Ma's book.

 

My daughter is learning and understanding so much more now.

[walkermamaof4]

:iagree:I can add that I read Liping Ma's book too. It influenced my choices.

[Corraleno]

I can add that I read Liping Ma's book too. It influenced my choices.

:iagree:

You can get Liping Ma's book used for around $5 or get it from your library. You will be in a much better position to evaluate math curricula after reading it.

 

Jackie

[H0MEFree]

I hate to be negative about a program so many people love.

My reasons are those blocks are TOYS. Therefore school will not happen if they are in front of my son.

Also, I do not like the way you do not learn about some things until way later than you should.

And finally, I really do not like the new binding.

 

A side note... MUS is having a TON of problems now that the son or son in law is taking over. It is really not good. Sales are also going down. Go to a homeschool convention and see if you can get some honest answers from a rep there.

[Corraleno]

I read the Liping Ma book. I don't think that MUS conflicts with those ideas.

I think the point of Liping Ma's book is the importance of teaching the underlying mathematical concepts, and making the connections between them. I think MUS teaches math visually, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's taught conceptually. IMHO:

 

(1) I found the lessons in PreAlgebra to be very discrete and unconnected to each other. For example, there is a lesson on the distributive property, but later in the course there is a lesson on multiplying binomials, and the distributive property is never mentioned.

 

(2) I found the explanations to be overly reliant on the MUS manipulatives, i.e., they are very concrete (which helps struggling students understand how to solve the problems), but I didn't feel that MUS related the concrete illustrations to the underlying abstract concepts. As I said above, visual does not necessarily mean conceptual.

 

(3) I found the problem sets to be very simple and straightforward, rather than presenting problems in a variety of formats to challenge students to really apply the concepts.

 

I know some people love MUS and swear by it, but these are my opinions.

 

Jackie

[JayneJ]

I hate to be negative about a program so many people love.

My reasons are those blocks are TOYS. Therefore school will not happen if they are in front of my son.

Also, I do not like the way you do not learn about some things until way later than you should.

And finally, I really do not like the new binding.

 

 

 

I agree the blocks were to toyish for us too. I also really wanted a mixture of oral/written math and an emphasis on Algebra in elementary math. Also, I wasn't that pleased to hear from a rep from the company that students using the program know their math but are not great performers on state tests, nor do they always finish within the time allowed on time tests/drills. Personally, I wasn't impressed with the upper level math texts and how little they covered in terms of SAT/ACT math. Nor at the time we looked at the program about 4 years ago we didn't feel it would be a great help for our children to go on to college level Calculus and Linear Algebra. Of course, things could have changed and they may have updated the program but we instead have used Abeka, Horizon, BJU, and Rod/Staff (traditional classroom style programs) and have adapted for our kids. I think it depends on you (the teacher) and the student if MUS will work or not.

Edited June 9, 2010 by JayneJeane

[Mandy in TN]

My little guy does not use MUS, because we use Kumon and at the lower levels the 2 programs have a very similar scope and sequence. If for some reason we could not do Kumon, I would probably have ds use MUS.

 

Through elementary school my boys have used two math programs. My oldest used Saxon and Kumon. My middle used Singapore and Saxon. My youngest is using Saxon and Kumon.

 

Both my oldest and middle used MUS alg1, geometry, and alg2. I wish the middle ds had stayed with Saxon. I wish the oldest had switched to MUS sooner.

 

I currently plan to leave the little guy in Saxon. It works for him, so why switch if it isn't broken? Same for you. If MUS works for your child, why switch if it isn't broken?

 

HTH-

Mandy

[razorbackmama]

We are leaving MUS at the end of this year. The exception will be my oldest, who is about halfway through Zeta. I felt it would be kind of stupid to have him switch to something else at this point. So I will have him finish Zeta and then switch to another pre-algebra program.

 

One reason is that it is inefficient. It spends soooooooo much time on the child learning how to work the problems "the long way" that the child becomes used to it and then resistent to shortcuts. I recently had a thread here on this board talking about this sort of thing. Rather than introduce a topic, explain why it works this way, maybe working a couple problems that way so that the child grasps why it works that way, and THEN showing a much more efficient (and less prone to error) method, it takes weeks for the shortcut to show up. Some kids may think, FINALLY! and then move onto the shortcut without a hitch. So far I'm 0 for 3 in my kids doing that. They don't move on to the shortcut until I flat out say, "DO NOT do it this way...do it THIS way."

 

Another reason is that they are not learning mental math at all. When I had them take the placement tests for Math Mammoth (what we are switching to), there were sections on it for mental math. Stuff like 200-45. They wrote out the problem vertically and borrowed.:tongue_smilie:

 

I'm noticing gaps. Elapsed time - not sure if it ever shows up, but we certainly haven't ever encountered it. Order of operations - I think it's covered in pre-algebra, but IMO that's a bit behind the ball. Next to no money, and I don't like the way time is taught (very convoluted and more difficult than necessary). Etc. Etc. Etc. Now, I know that the standard response to this is "by the time the child is done he'll have covered everything," which is all fine and good if that's actually true. But I know that as of today, my 7th grader who is nearly done with Zeta has NOT covered many of the things that most other curriculums have covered in 2nd and 3rd grade, and that bothers me personally. I thought the same thing (that by the time Zeta was over they'd be at about the same point), but seeing the placement tests for MM showed me real quick that there are gaps and they are many.

 

My Gamma and Epsilon kids apparently have no concept of multiplication being anything more than an area problem. Both of them, on their MM placement tests, were told to "draw a picture representing 3x4=12." Both of them drew a rectangle with 12 blocks inside.

 

My nearly done with Alpha child has no clue when you are supposed to add and when you are supposed to subtract. The signs are already written in for the word problems. For a long time I thought he was reading the problems and was so impressed. Turns out he was looking at the numbers in the problem and then just plugging them into the blanks, which was fine since the math symbols were already there. I have a friend whose son did the exact same thing.

 

Now, I am fully aware that my post will probably get me into a lot of trouble, and people will come along and tell me that I'm not using MUS properly or something. That's fine. If MUS is working for people, they aren't experiencing gaps, they aren't getting hung up on the less efficient methods, etc....then by all means they need to keep on using it. I'm simply explaining why WE are going to be switching. I know there is no perfect math curriculum out there, so I'm sure that there will be something we don't like about MM, but hopefully it will be less.

[Satori]

To put it simply, both Mom and Daughter were bored to death with MUS. I read Liping Ma's book, but I had already ditched it. It took a few math programs before we found RightStart. I fell in love immediately.

[Corraleno]

My Gamma and Epsilon kids apparently have no concept of multiplication being anything more than an area problem.

YES, this is exactly what I mean by not linking the concrete illustrations to abstract concepts. It doesn't get any better in PreAlgebra, either. Multiplying binomials is shown exclusively with the manipulatives, and the problem sets even tell the student to draw the blocks to solve the problems — they can just count the blocks and write the answer. There is no conceptual understanding provided, nor any needed to solve the problems.

 

Jackie

[Niffercoo]

 

One reason is that it is inefficient. It spends soooooooo much time on the child learning how to work the problems "the long way" that the child becomes used to it and then resistent to shortcuts. I recently had a thread here on this board talking about this sort of thing. Rather than introduce a topic, explain why it works this way, maybe working a couple problems that way so that the child grasps why it works that way, and THEN showing a much more efficient (and less prone to error) method, it takes weeks for the shortcut to show up. Some kids may think, FINALLY! and then move onto the shortcut without a hitch. So far I'm 0 for 3 in my kids doing that. They don't move on to the shortcut until I flat out say, "DO NOT do it this way...do it THIS way."

 

 

But I know that as of today, my 7th grader who is nearly done with Zeta has NOT covered many of the things that most other curriculums have covered in 2nd and 3rd grade, and that bothers me personally.

 

My Gamma and Epsilon kids apparently have no concept of multiplication being anything more than an area problem. Both of them, on their MM placement tests, were told to "draw a picture representing 3x4=12." Both of them drew a rectangle with 12 blocks inside.

 

My nearly done with Alpha child has no clue when you are supposed to add and when you are supposed to subtract. The signs are already written in for the word problems. For a long time I thought he was reading the problems and was so impressed. Turns out he was looking at the numbers in the problem and then just plugging them into the blanks, which was fine since the math symbols were already there. I have a friend whose son did the exact same thing.

 

 

 

I quoted the above parts because I'm experiencing the exact same thing. I assumed it was because I'm using MUS with my autistic children and that was just the way it was. Wow. I'm actually glad to read this.

 

I'm borrowing a friend's Right Start this summer to try it out for my 8 year old (who is finishing Alpha - and plugging in the numbers LOL). But like your son, mine is in 7th and is halfway through with Zeta. Do you know what you're going to use for Pre-Algebra yet? My son loves MUS because it's predictable and he'd rather grin and bear it than face uncertainty. But something has to be done.

[2cents]

We didn't choose MUS because our children don't like the manipulatives and the video would have bored them to tears. I didn't like the sequence either. We SAT test yearly and we choose a more traditional sequenced text for that reason. When I researched MUS I didn't read very encouraging feedback on college readiness. That could have changed by now though. It was fairly new when we were making our math decisions and I didn't want my children to be a test market. :)

[8filltheheart]

I am curious why people do not choose this program, or why they leave MUS. My daughter has been happily using it through Delta. We had started with Singapore, but that did not click with me, so I started MUS. I needed something that would help me teach math.

 

Now I am planning for next year and I was peeking at Teaching Textbooks because it explains each problem, step by step But part of me wants to stick with MUS until she is done with Zeta (which completes the lower level math.) Any thoughts? Thanks! :)

 

My kids pick up math concepts quickly and would go absolutely nuts with such a concentrated focus. For high school I do use MUS alg and geo as pre-alg and pre-geo. MUS is just not on par with other texts, but if I were in your position in choosing between MUS and TT, I would stick with MUS for high school.

[Farrar]

It's hard to say if I would have considered it otherwise, but after hearing from a friend (and former math teacher) about how the MUS rep at a conference did a problem incorrectly in the demonstration TWICE, I knew I would never be able to respect it as a serious program.

[razorbackmama]

Do you know what you're going to use for Pre-Algebra yet?

 

We're going to give Thinkwell Pre-Algebra a go.

[rafiki]

.

[Niffercoo]

We're going to give Thinkwell Pre-Algebra a go.

 

Thanks! I've never heard of that one! Will have to check it out.

[gpsings]

We invested in and tried MUS for my girls, it was unsuccessful. My oldest daughter definitely needs more practice for learned skills, and she wasn't grasping the concepts being taught in the video. We decided we just needed a 'spiral' curriculum so she would have daily practice.

[Miss Sherry]

I used it with my 2 oldest children ( the old version of MUS) I thought it was fun to use but they begged me to stop using it because they thought it was boring. Also, my own observation was that it did not give enough practice on some of the concepts, so I had to supplement with other materials for more practice while using it. I enjoyed Mr. Demme's (sp ? ) presentations on the tapes but my children did not. I was letting them watch the videos with me, and then going over the concepts with them, but had to stop having them watch the videos with me because they were so bored by them. But, when they were very young and struggling with the concept of place value, it was what caused them to finally understand it. I've used some of the teaching techniques with my youngest daughter, but along with materials other than MUS.

It really just depends on your child's learning needs. What works well for one child may be a hindrance to another.

[Aurelia]

We didn't choose it because neither me nor my daughter liked the videos, and I knew she would be bored out of her mind with covering so few topics each year.

[everettrj]

This thread has been a HUGE help to me, already have my copy of Liping Ma's book on reserve @ the local library ;)

Had already ordered LoF's decimals & percents and fractions books prior to reading this but still wonder if I should be supplementing with something per WTM. However it also seems LoF has very recently incorporated more review and 'drill'ish type areas as suggested by current users, so I guess as it stands right now we'll go with just LoF and play it by ear as to whether or not to supplement with a whole 'nother curriculum or just free online stuff will suffice...:confused: *pant, pant*

*proceeds to take chill pill*

I do really love all the advice and opinions though, really and truly! TY

[Momof1plustwins]

We simply were bored with MUS Alpha. I also thought ds would like using manipulatives, but he didn't. I have mixed feelings about the importance of memorizing add/sub facts. I believe that the memorization of those facts will come in time, just by repeating them over and over again. But I don't think special time (the biggest part of a year) needs to be set aside for the sole purpose of memorizing these facts. Of course, there is no way around memorizing multiplication and division facts though.

On the other hand, I love the DVD's and the way that Steve Demme demonstrates the material. He can really show you how to make sense out of math.

Just like any curriculum, what works for one child may not work for the next child.

[Aubrey]

1. The littles lost the remote, so we can only watch it on the computer in my room.

 

2. Dd can work the dvd player fine. The computer, not as much.

 

3. Steve Demme's "handsomeness" wore off, I guess. (Dd, when we first got it: "Oh, Mama, I love this math. That man's so handsome!" :lol: She's never said that about ANYONE.)

 

4. The blocks we got were warped, so they don't quite work. It's *very* slight. It might even be my imagination.

 

5. The blocks annoy dd.

 

6. We started, really, at too low a level, & burned out on things that were too easy, going too slowly. I don't think a mastery approach is quite right for the learning styles here. Logically, it seems like it should be fine. Practically, we're sticking w/ Singapore & a sprinkling of LoF.

[Mommy22alyns]

I did not ever seriously consider MUS because I didn't want to focus on so few topics per year.

[Rosy]

We switched from Saxon 1 (late in the book) to MUS Alpha. I love MUS for my DS. He's finished Alpha and is cruising through Beta now. DD6 is at roughly the same level in math and needed to go back to Saxon. She is not an auditory learner at all (she has always had a very hard time processing verbal instruction or direction). She loves Saxon. I didn't think anyone loved Saxon.

 

Anyway, DS loves MUS, which is why I love it for him, but it's not my perfect, running-toward-each-other-through-a-field-of-daisies math program, mostly because mastery-based programs just aren't for me. When we're struggling with a concept, there just isn't much I can do in terms of instruction if we've already watched the video, talked the concepts through and done all of the worksheets. I can print out more worksheets, but for DS there have been times his brain just wasn't latching on and I didn't want to move on, but I also didn't want to keep doing the same thing, over and over.

[lauracolumbus]

I discovered that spiral works better for my dc than mastery.

They'd go mad doing the same types of problems 5 days a week, but be thrilled to be done so quickly.

 

Laura

[Entropymama]

My children did 3 levels of MUS and weren't scoring well on standardized tests, weren't understanding math concepts (this surprised me), and weren't retaining their facts. I downloaded MEP, which is free and teaches concepts well, I bought Rightstart, and I bought Math Mammoth. I am loving these curricula which all teach math at a conceptual level better I felt than did MUS and my kids are learning. That is why we switched. Now we sort of hodge podge all 3 but we are learning so much!

 

I looked at the abbreviation thread but couldn't find MEP. What is that?

[everettrj]

6. We started, really, at too low a level, & burned out on things that were too easy, going too slowly. I don't think a mastery approach is quite right for the learning styles here. Logically, it seems like it should be fine. Practically, we're sticking w/ Singapore & a sprinkling of LoF.

 

*psst, whatcha like best about Singapore?..trying to whisper so as to not hijack the thread* ;)

yea, I know, is what pm's are for, just thought someone else might wonder the same thing too..? :)

[Spy Car]

I looked at the abbreviation thread but couldn't find MEP. What is that?

 

Mathematics Enhancement Programme. It is a British math program based on a Hungarian model that is designed to improve math education in the UK. The Center that has developed MEP allows home educators to download the materials without cost.

 

It is an extremely interesting math program.

 

Bill

[cottagechick]

We are leaving MUS at the end of this year. The exception will be my oldest, who is about halfway through Zeta. I felt it would be kind of stupid to have him switch to something else at this point. So I will have him finish Zeta and then switch to another pre-algebra program.

 

One reason is that it is inefficient. It spends soooooooo much time on the child learning how to work the problems "the long way" that the child becomes used to it and then resistent to shortcuts. I recently had a thread here on this board talking about this sort of thing. Rather than introduce a topic, explain why it works this way, maybe working a couple problems that way so that the child grasps why it works that way, and THEN showing a much more efficient (and less prone to error) method, it takes weeks for the shortcut to show up. Some kids may think, FINALLY! and then move onto the shortcut without a hitch. So far I'm 0 for 3 in my kids doing that. They don't move on to the shortcut until I flat out say, "DO NOT do it this way...do it THIS way."

 

Another reason is that they are not learning mental math at all. When I had them take the placement tests for Math Mammoth (what we are switching to), there were sections on it for mental math. Stuff like 200-45. They wrote out the problem vertically and borrowed.:tongue_smilie:

 

I'm noticing gaps. Elapsed time - not sure if it ever shows up, but we certainly haven't ever encountered it. Order of operations - I think it's covered in pre-algebra, but IMO that's a bit behind the ball. Next to no money, and I don't like the way time is taught (very convoluted and more difficult than necessary). Etc. Etc. Etc. Now, I know that the standard response to this is "by the time the child is done he'll have covered everything," which is all fine and good if that's actually true. But I know that as of today, my 7th grader who is nearly done with Zeta has NOT covered many of the things that most other curriculums have covered in 2nd and 3rd grade, and that bothers me personally. I thought the same thing (that by the time Zeta was over they'd be at about the same point), but seeing the placement tests for MM showed me real quick that there are gaps and they are many.

 

My Gamma and Epsilon kids apparently have no concept of multiplication being anything more than an area problem. Both of them, on their MM placement tests, were told to "draw a picture representing 3x4=12." Both of them drew a rectangle with 12 blocks inside.

 

My nearly done with Alpha child has no clue when you are supposed to add and when you are supposed to subtract. The signs are already written in for the word problems. For a long time I thought he was reading the problems and was so impressed. Turns out he was looking at the numbers in the problem and then just plugging them into the blanks, which was fine since the math symbols were already there. I have a friend whose son did the exact same thing.

 

Now, I am fully aware that my post will probably get me into a lot of trouble, and people will come along and tell me that I'm not using MUS properly or something. That's fine. If MUS is working for people, they aren't experiencing gaps, they aren't getting hung up on the less efficient methods, etc....then by all means they need to keep on using it. I'm simply explaining why WE are going to be switching. I know there is no perfect math curriculum out there, so I'm sure that there will be something we don't like about MM, but hopefully it will be less.

 

Thanks for being so specific. These are the kinds of posts that really help me evaluate a program....

 

I've already downloaded MM3 for my rising 3rd grader, but I had purchased a copy of MUS Delta for my rising 5th grader who struggles with math. I'd heard MUS was good for learners such as my son (VSL, pencil-phobic, hands-on), but actually had him take the MM placement test using the 4th grade level. He was in tears and panic with it after about 5 minutes, and that was with ME sitting there walking him thru it. I would like to use it with him anyway, but I'm not sure *I* can teach it to him.

 

I posted a week or so ago about how I was reading thru the third grade MM book and didn't understand any of it. I was never taught mental math strategies, so have always dreaded teaching that way....even though I know it's gonna give my kids a leg-up in the long run.

 

*sigh* At any rate, I guess I'll be selling my Delta set and blocks.

[WhereHopeGrows]

Thank you! This thread has been extremely helpful. I now remember why I had chosen MUS in the first place. I chose it because of the mastery approach. Also, I needed a program that was easy to teach. I liked that MUS came with a teaching CD. But somehow in the busyness of doing school, I had forgotten all of the terms and reasons behind why I was doing what I was doing. :)

 

But the trouble is, when I am also doing unit studies, and apologia science (which focuses on one topic at a time,) and reading the same set of read-aloud stories all year long.....my children are not seeing the variety that life has to offer! Really, for me, that is the issue here. I am afraid that our year has started to feel like one big run-on sentence!

 

Now, having said that, I may not need to stop using MUS with my kids, but I do want to look at it in the bigger picture of what we are doing. Thanks for helping me see more clearly!

Edited June 10, 2010 by WhereHopeGrows

[WhereHopeGrows]

Also, thank you for the book recommendation. I do not know when I will have time to get through it, but it does sound very helpful. If anyone knows of a website that has a good synopsis of the book, will you please post a link?

[Aoife]

I have more recently added MUS to our programs and switched RS out and just kept the games and so far it's a bit hit. Now granted they do the full SM alongside the MUS and the older use saxon workbooks for extra practice along with MEP if they feel like it or they are needing some extra help and MUS has been a favorite especially since we have a house full of very visual hands on learners. The olders like that they can pop their DVDs into their laptops and then go at the lesson asking for help if needed and DS1 who is mathy by nature though LOVES this program and picks up the concept immediately and will go around all day talking about them. I think all programs have their strengths and weaknesses which is why we supplement in the first place and don't move on until we are confident the concept is grasped. So I LOVE MUS :)

[Spock]

YES, this is exactly what I mean by not linking the concrete illustrations to abstract concepts. It doesn't get any better in PreAlgebra, either. Multiplying binomials is shown exclusively with the manipulatives, and the problem sets even tell the student to draw the blocks to solve the problems — they can just count the blocks and write the answer. There is no conceptual understanding provided, nor any needed to solve the problems.

 

Jackie

 

I dropped MUS for elementary because my daughter got sick of doing only addition and subtraction for a whole year (Beta was the only year she used it). After doing Beta in 2nd grade, it took until almost the end of 4th grade before she would do an addition or subtraction problem without moaning and crying. It also put her a half book behind when we switched back to Singapore math for 3rd grade.

 

However, I did use MUS for my high schoolers. We didn't have the problem you mention because they both refused to even think about drawing (or even using) the blocks past the original introduction to what is going on in the problem. They thought drawing blocks and solving problems with blocks was babyish.

 

However, we didn't really use it as intended. My oldest really struggles with math, and couldn't learn from the video, even if I watched it with him. So, I skim-read the teacher's manual and taught him the concepts. Then, I re-taught the concepts each day as he did the worksheets. (He used multiple programs in elementary/jr. high, so I know this would happen no matter what program he used.) I didn't always/often teach things the way the text said, either.

 

My second son is very math gifted. He read the teacher's manual for himself and did one or two worksheets for each chapter. I do believe he would have benefitted from a more challenging program, but he also wanted an independent program--he dislikes the time taken up by working with me, especially since I would have been relearning the material with him (he picks it up almost by osmosis, and gets a little impatient when it takes me a little longer to see something he just "knows"). He will be taking math at the community college this fall.

[razorbackmama]

I dropped MUS for elementary because my daughter got sick of doing only addition and subtraction for a whole year (Beta was the only year she used it). After doing Beta in 2nd grade, it took until almost the end of 4th grade before she would do an addition or subtraction problem without moaning and crying. It also put her a half book behind when we switched back to Singapore math for 3rd grade.

 

From what I can tell so far (I have to analyze their placement tests more fully when I have time), my about-to-be 5th grader will be starting Math Mammoth 3, and my about-to-be 6th grader will be starting Math Mammoth 4 (or maybe 3B...can't remember).:001_huh:

[Pam L.]

Mathematics Enhancement Programme. It is a British math program based on a Hungarian model that is designed to improve math education in the UK. The Center that has developed MEP allows home educators to download the materials without cost.

 

It is an extremely interesting math program.

 

Bill

 

 

 

Do you have a link for this free download? I tried to look at it recently and must have missed the free download.

 

thanks!

[3Rivers]

I'm using MUS with my boys and they are doing great with it. I switched to TT for my daughter because she was still struggling to understand the concepts. The things that make TT better for her are:

 

1. spiral approach. It gives a brief and gentle introduction to new concepts, but then the problems after that are a mix of old and new so that if she didn't get it the first time, she doesn't bomb the whole lesson. It is a real confidence builder.

 

2. She says that being able to see it worked on the screen as the guy is talking is more helpful. She can watch every single problem worked if necessary. The repitition is essential for her. The single video lesson didn't cut it, and I couldn't seem to explain it any better for her.

 

3. The fun graphics provide little incentives and distraction from the fact that she is doing math. lol

 

I would not put my boys in TT because so far the repetition would be redundant. They grasp math much quicker, so we are able to adapt MUS to fit them much better, i.e. they zoom through lessons that are easy and slow down if there is a challenge. Mastery approach works better for them, and there is just enough review for them to retain previously learned material without overkill. TT would be overkill and too easy for them.

 

So, in summary, just my personal opinion is that if MUS is working don't switch. If it's a little bump in the road, contact Steve Demme for help to work through it and keep going. If, however, kleenex has become required in order to get through math time, then consider TT. :001_smile:

[Aubrey]

*psst, whatcha like best about Singapore?..trying to whisper so as to not hijack the thread* ;)

yea, I know, is what pm's are for, just thought someone else might wonder the same thing too..? :)

 

It teaches math in the really weird way that I've always done it in my head, & seeing this weirdness in full color print is like meeting a kindred spirit. Some of it, I hadn't even really realized I did. Some of it is so weird I've pondered it, even as a kid. And *all* of it is in Singapore.

 

For ex, numbers are like Matryoshka dolls. 7 isn't *really* just a 7--it's a perfectly-sized tupperware for a 3 & a 4.

 

Most math progs teach 10s--sums of 10, etc. But you can do the same w/ 8s & it's even helpful to do w/ 5s.

 

If you look at them long enough, numbers become like play-doh. They're fun & creative & malleable. I don't know how to describe it, & I don't think it's good for everybody to think of them like this--for some the very inflexibility of numbers at first glance is what's GOOD about them. I don't want to take that dependability away from anyone who loves it, kwim?

 

Singapore teaches math like there's something there to ponder instead of just the surface of the worksheet. Like you could touch the page & there'd be a ripple instead of just the paper, like Saxon.

[Corraleno]

Singapore teaches math like there's something there to ponder instead of just the surface of the worksheet. Like you could touch the page & there'd be a ripple instead of just the paper, like Saxon.

Oh, I *LOVE* this!!!!!! Perfect description!

 

Jackie

[razorbackmama]

Just thought of another reason to add to my list (since it just came up in the past 2 minutes). My kids are not familiar with the terms sum, difference, product, quotient, dividend, divisor, addend, etc.

[Harriet Vane]

Just thought of another reason to add to my list (since it just came up in the past 2 minutes). My kids are not familiar with the terms sum, difference, product, quotient, dividend, divisor, addend, etc.

 

I'm curious about this--we use MUS (and are very happy with it) and I know for a fact that Mr. Demme teaches these terms on the video. He both uses the terms and often writes them on the whiteboard in addition. My kids ARE familiar with these terms.

[razorbackmama]

I'm curious about this--we use MUS (and are very happy with it) and I know for a fact that Mr. Demme teaches these terms on the video. He both uses the terms and often writes them on the whiteboard in addition. My kids ARE familiar with these terms.

:confused:

 

No clue. I don't watch the DVDs with them. But none of my children know these terms, and I've never seen them referred to on the worksheets.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

I'm curious about this--we use MUS (and are very happy with it) and I know for a fact that Mr. Demme teaches these terms on the video. He both uses the terms and often writes them on the whiteboard in addition. My kids ARE familiar with these terms.

:iagree:My kids have also had to learned and written on worksheets commutative/distributive/associative properties.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

:confused:

 

No clue. I don't watch the DVDs with them. But none of my children know these terms, and I've never seen them referred to on the worksheets.

The parent should always watch the DVD, it's the student watching the DVD that's optional. I'm pretty certain I remember them also being on worksheets but it's been a couple of years since we've been in the lower levels so I don't recall where.

[razorbackmama]

The parent should always watch the DVD, it's the student watching the DVD that's optional. I'm pretty certain I remember them also being on worksheets but it's been a couple of years since we've been in the lower levels so I don't recall where.

 

 

Then apparently yes, I'm using it wrong. If that's the case then it's another reason that MUS won't work for us - I simply cannot watch 5 (and eventually 6) levels of DVDs.

[FlutterbyMommy]

I looked at MUS seriously, but went with RS. Having a young child was a factor for me. I didn't like the idea of the DVD and watching Mr. Demme on the clips on the sight did not impress me. Perhaps if my hild were older, the DVD idea would be more appealing.

 

Also, I felt that a more spiral (or soft spiral) approach would be most useful for us. RS explains it uses both spiral and mastery on its site. I liked the flow of the topics and that I could work at our pace.

 

The manipulative with MUS didn't impress me either. The songs, finger play, AL Abacus, and other manipulatives with RS have been a hit here. I don;t think rods would have cut it.

 

And honestly, a superficial reason was the name MUS--lol!

 

I just think certain programs work better for certain kids and/or parents and their learning/teaching styles. I know many people love MUS and it seems like a good quality program. There were just some things more attractive for us in another program, so we went that direction. But that all could change down the road.

[fairytalemama]

We were debating between MUS and RS for our dd's K year. My husband wanted MUS because he liked the idea of the rods and the DVD learning and he didn't like the ALAbacus they use in RS (he personally has an easier time visualizing with rods than the abacus). I wanted RS because I liked that the reinforcement of concepts is done via playing games, and one of my friends told me that MUS Primer was boring. Our daughter ADORES games so I won in the end.

 

We're 20 lessons into RS. Am I in love? I don't know about that, but my daughter does love that darn "Yellow is the Sun" song.