My DD's (former) friend is no longer welcome here

[RoughCollie]

There is no reason for me to post this, but I have to tell someone.

 

Some of you may remember that DD's first friend after we moved here was a girl who lives down the street. To jog your memories, this girl told me that she is bisexual and this, among other things, led to our no sleepovers rule.

 

Well, the girl showed up at our door tonight, and she and DD were whispering and I knew there was trouble. I hadn't given the girl permission to come over. So I called her mother.

 

The mother was crying and upset because she has been beaten twice in the last couple of days. Her drunk live-in boyfriend beat her up severely on Saturday night in a public place. The mother kicked him out and his family bailed him out of jail.

 

This afternoon, the girl beat up her mother because the girl had been grounded for something she had done over the weekend (which the girl spent at a friend's house).

 

The mother has a black eye & bruises from this.

 

1.5 years ago, the girl attacked her mother and broke several of her ribs. My DD was just told this by the girl's sister a couple of days ago. I was told this by the mother this evening.

 

So I sent the girl packing and told her never to come onto our property again and to stay away from my DD. Actually I yelled at her; I was furious.

 

The mother told me she was going to call the police and have the girl "put into care". When the girl broke her mother's ribs, she was removed from the home and sent to live with her grandparents because social services said they would otherwise remove her sister for safety reasons.

 

DD was telling the girl to go home -- that's what the whispering was about. She had no idea that the girl had beaten up her mother. She just thought the girl was running away from home. This encounter only lasted 5 minutes before I got to the bottom of it and kicked the girl out.

 

DD has no trouble dumping the girl -- she's been trying to do that (in a nice way) anyhow because the girl is not real bright and is always getting into trouble.

 

Since the police response time around here is 45 minutes, everyone has guns for self-protection (also for hunting). EXCEPT us.

 

Someone I know in Pittsburgh referred to where we live as being in Deliverance. I've not seen that movie, but I take it Deliverance is a bad place?

 

RC

Edited March 24, 2010 by RoughCollie

[Jean in Newcastle]

That is a violent girl. You did well to tell her to leave. How is your daughter handling this?

[StephanieZ]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Sounds like the whole family is in crisis. That the mother allows such a bad man to be around the family is a bad sign that the mother is not a blameless victim here. I hope the entire family gets help.

 

Meanwhile, I think you are making a reasonable safety decision to protect your young daughter from being exposed to such a mess of a family.

 

The girl is likely a victim as well. Maybe getting "into care" will help her turn things around before it is too late.

 

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

[RoughCollie]

That is a violent girl. You did well to tell her to leave. How is your daughter handling this?

 

Oh, I just added a couple of paragraphs near the end about DD.

 

DD is fine with this. She was trying to nicely disengage herself from her friendship with the girl for awhile now. She just didn't want to hurt the girl's feelings.

[OnTheBrink]

I think you did the right thing. What a tough situation.

[RoughCollie]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Sounds like the whole family is in crisis. That the mother allows such a bad man to be around the family is a bad sign that the mother is not a blameless victim here. I hope the entire family gets help.

 

Meanwhile, I think you are making a reasonable safety decision to protect your young daughter from being exposed to such a mess of a family.

 

The girl is likely a victim as well. Maybe getting "into care" will help her turn things around before it is too late.

 

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

 

The mother is on Social Security disability for something (I can't tell what it is). They have Section 8 housing, food stamps, medicaid. She has 2 dd's. They are from different fathers, she has never been married. She has no intention of ever trying to change her situation except through boyfriends.

 

Yes, I'd say there is major dysfunction here.

 

She kept the boyfriend around because she is lonely and he paid some of the expenses. He wasn't that bad except for when he got drunk (weekends), and he had never hit her before. (These are her words, not mine.) She basically takes what she can get as far as men are concerned, I guess.

 

These are not poster people for e-harmony, that's for sure. This whole area is populated by people like that -- she is not exceptional. First time I've ever met any, though, and I'm 53 years old. Guess I've been lucky up until now.

 

The worst part is what this has done to her kids. The younger sister seems nice -- she is the one who keeps the peace. She has 14 brothers and sisters on her absent father's side, but she has not met them.

 

So it's not only the mom who is the problem here -- the absent fathers who are busily reproducing and leaving their children in the lurch are to blame, too.

 

It's all sordid and uncivilized, in my view.

Edited March 24, 2010 by RoughCollie

[Melissa in Australia]

Is it a small town where you live? just asking, because it seems typical of small towns. not that everyone in a small town is like that, just you get to hear everyone's business, and there seems to be a lot of sleeping around etc. in small towns.

[RoughCollie]

Is it a small town where you live? just asking, because it seems typical of small towns. not that everyone in a small town is like that, just you get to hear everyone's business, and there seems to be a lot of sleeping around etc. in small towns.

 

I don't live in a town, but there is a small town 10 miles away. I live in a rural area. There are dairy farms all over the place. This is definitely out in the country.

 

This is the first time I've ever been in a rural area, let alone lived in one, unless you count driving through one on the interstate.

[Journey]

While I feel for you (your daughter really) and the situation, I am bothered by some comments you have made on this thread and your previous thread. I was going to post about it in your first thread on this topic but I didn't. Now I want to though. First let me say that I am in NO way attacking you so if it comes off that way, I am truly sorry.

 

I get the impression that you are kind of um....snobby. I wish I could remember what it was in your first thread about this that bothered me so much but I can't, and I don't have the time to go back and find anything. But...in this thread you state that this girl "is not real bright" and that really, really bothers me. I have a LD 22 year old daughter who "is not real bright" in some ways, but she shines in many more ways. When I hear people make comments like that, it makes me wonder about that person...hence why I wonder about you. Secondly you say that this mother has two dd's from different fathers and is on Section 8, Medicaid and food stamps. Well, I have two DD's from two different fathers and I am also on Section 8 and Medicaid. The only difference here is that I work two jobs. I really don't think her lifestyle is any of your business, nor do I think you need to post it all over this board.

 

I get the feeling that putting this woman down makes you feel better. Yes, her family is in major crisis and they ALL need help and I agree, I would not allow her daughter to be anywhere near my children...not because, so much for the bisexual issue (because chances are, she isn't a bisexual) but because of the violence she has produced. I also think that you could have handled the situation better because if this girl really does have violent tendencies (if what is being said about her is 100% true and not heard about second hand) then I, as a mother, would be terrified that I made her so angry that she is going to come back on my family.

 

Also, you make the area you live in sound like the hollers of back woods Kentucky but remember, you and your husband chose to live there. You can't come down on the people who live there as maybe that's all they can afford and maybe that's the only lifestyle they have ever known....how are they supposed to know any differently?

 

Please stop and think before you write because words can be very hurtful to total strangers (me). Just because I am a sinlge mom (like that woman) and have a "not so bright" child (like that woman) and am on Section 8, (like that woman) Medicaid (like that woman) and have two children from different fathers (like that woman) doesn't mean that I am anything like her, because I am not, but I do feel badly for her and her very unfortunate circumstances. Maybe you can come along side of her instead of throwing them to the curb and acting like they are worse than cow dung on the bottom of your shoes.

 

Again, I'm sorry if I have offended you in any way, but I had to write.

[Tiff in TX]

While I feel for you (your daughter really) and the situation, I am bothered by some comments you have made on this thread and your previous thread. I was going to post about it in your first thread on this topic but I didn't. Now I want to though. First let me say that I am in NO way attacking you so if it comes off that way, I am truly sorry.

 

I get the impression that you are kind of um....snobby. I wish I could remember what it was in your first thread about this that bothered me so much but I can't, and I don't have the time to go back and find anything. But...in this thread you state that this girl "is not real bright" and that really, really bothers me. I have a LD 22 year old daughter who "is not real bright" in some ways, but she shines in many more ways. When I hear people make comments like that, it makes me wonder about that person...hence why I wonder about you. Secondly you say that this mother has two dd's from different fathers and is on Section 8, Medicaid and food stamps. Well, I have two DD's from two different fathers and I am also on Section 8 and Medicaid. The only difference here is that I work two jobs. I really don't think her lifestyle is any of your business, nor do I think you need to post it all over this board.

 

I get the feeling that putting this woman down makes you feel better. Yes, her family is in major crisis and they ALL need help and I agree, I would not allow her daughter to be anywhere near my children...not because, so much for the bisexual issue (because chances are, she isn't a bisexual) but because of the violence she has produced. I also think that you could have handled the situation better because if this girl really does have violent tendencies (if what is being said about her is 100% true and not heard about second hand) then I, as a mother, would be terrified that I made her so angry that she is going to come back on my family.

 

Also, you make the area you live in sound like the hollers of back woods Kentucky but remember, you and your husband chose to live there. You can't come down on the people who live there as maybe that's all they can afford and maybe that's the only lifestyle they have ever known....how are they supposed to know any differently?

 

Please stop and think before you write because words can be very hurtful to total strangers (me). Just because I am a sinlge mom (like that woman) and have a "not so bright" child (like that woman) and am on Section 8, (like that woman) Medicaid (like that woman) and have two children from different fathers (like that woman) doesn't mean that I am anything like her, because I am not, but I do feel badly for her and her very unfortunate circumstances. Maybe you can come along side of her instead of throwing them to the curb and acting like they are worse than cow dung on the bottom of your shoes.

 

Again, I'm sorry if I have offended you in any way, but I had to write.

 

I didn't get a snobby vibe from the OP at all. The OP sounds like a very carring mother. If I were placed in a situation like this, even if I wanted to help, I wouldn't know how to and would probably seek the advice of others. I didn't hear a judgemental tone from the way she described the other mother's life, it simply seemed as if she was stating what a hard life this woman has had.

It is unfortunate that you took the OPs words to heart and were offended. It is just part of life. If people on this board had to censor everything that they say because it might offend someone or maybe hit too close to home, then not much would be said.

And as for this comment:

DD has no trouble dumping the girl -- she's been trying to do that (in a nice way) anyhow because the girl is not real bright and is always getting into trouble.

 

 

I took the "she's not real bright" part to mean that she isn't learning from her mistakes... not that she isn't "booksmart" smart.

 

And remember, just because you may share a lot of similarities as the other mother from the story doesn't mean that you share her view points, experiences and mistakes. The fact that you are on this board in the first place shows that you care about your children and thier education. :grouphug:

[Harriet Vane]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Sounds like the whole family is in crisis. That the mother allows such a bad man to be around the family is a bad sign that the mother is not a blameless victim here. I hope the entire family gets help.

 

Meanwhile, I think you are making a reasonable safety decision to protect your young daughter from being exposed to such a mess of a family.

 

The girl is likely a victim as well. Maybe getting "into care" will help her turn things around before it is too late.

 

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

 

:iagree:

 

I often advocate befriending troubled children--their behaviors indicate a real need for help and love. However, I would never recommend doing so at the expense of my child.

 

If this girl beat her mother, I can promise you there is a whole ugly, abusive history behind this event. No, she should not have done that, but I ask you to consider carefully what forces shaped this girl. She's either mentally ill or has been hurt a lot. Maybe both.

 

Right now the best thing for her might be state custody--this will get her away from her severely dysfunctional family and hopefully get her some therapy.

 

Since your own daughter is her age and has wanted to disengage, it seems appropriate to support that. However, in your own dealings with this family, I hope you're able to extend love even as you set good boundaries.

[Denisemomof4]

Wow. You had no other choice. That type of person is not only unsafe, but a bad influence on your dd. It's really awful that both of you have had to experience this, and it's heartbreaking for the mother. I do hope she can lead a peaceful life now.

[lionfamily1999]

OP, what a hard situation and bravo for doing the right thing :D

 

Journey, I live rural, just outside a small town. There's a part of me that's bothered because I sense the "come here" mentality (if every place was just like the place I left everything would be great). However, I know that I'm REALLY sensitive over such things and trying to be impartial, I can see it's not the OP's intent. I think, maybe, you're a little sensitive about people thinking others are "not so bright." I don't believe it was the OP's intent to snub someone with issues, I think she meant that the girl does some stupid things (ie beating up her mother). :grouphug:

[HeidiKC]

What a horrible situation for everyone. I don't know how well you know this family, how close in proximity you are or how often you'd just run into them. The first thing that comes to mind is that the poor younger sister who is holding it together needs help. I'm am always just SHOCKED when I hear stories from people who grew up in such situations and worse, who overcame it all and are good citizens, and successful and happy. And it seems that in all these cases, it was because there was some adult in their life who cared and was there for them. Someone they could talk to and who encouraged them.

 

I don't know if you feel you could offer support to the younger daughter in some way - I don't mean physically, but just letting her know she seems to be making the right decisions and that you support that, offering advice if she asks for it. I realize this situation is a bit different because of the violence (that you don't want to bring anywhere near your family), but especially if the older girl gets put in care, I'd really hope you might somehow be able to reach out to this girl. You obviously are someone who cares about kids a lot, and this could change her life. Because maybe there is no one else in her life who seems to care or that she feels she is a positive force.

[LauraGB]

I get the impression that you are kind of um....snobby. I wish I could remember what it was in your first thread about this that bothered me so much but I can't, and I don't have the time to go back and find anything. But...in this thread you state that this girl "is not real bright" and that really, really bothers me. I have a LD 22 year old daughter who "is not real bright" in some ways, but she shines in many more ways. When I hear people make comments like that, it makes me wonder about that person...hence why I wonder about you. Secondly you say that this mother has two dd's from different fathers and is on Section 8, Medicaid and food stamps. Well, I have two DD's from two different fathers and I am also on Section 8 and Medicaid. The only difference here is that I work two jobs. I really don't think her lifestyle is any of your business, nor do I think you need to post it all over this board.

 

.

 

You are very fortunate - you must have never met the kind of people she is talking about. There is a huge difference between a hard working, barely getting by, proud family, with children with some sort of disabilities... and the family RoughCollie is talking about. I don't hear snobbiness from her at all. Just the reality of the situation.

 

OP - And the reality of that situation, combined with your earlier explanation about this girl and her family, tells me that after last night, you need to quietly get some protection in place for you family. Between the angry dad and the jilted girl, I think there is definitely cause for concern.

 

ETA Doesn't your dd go to school with this girl? How is she feeling about it?

Edited March 24, 2010 by LauraGB

[stripe]

While I feel for you (your daughter really) and the situation, I am bothered by some comments you have made on this thread and your previous thread. I was going to post about it in your first thread on this topic but I didn't. Now I want to though. First let me say that I am in NO way attacking you so if it comes off that way, I am truly sorry.

 

I am really sorry that this thread hurt your feelings. I have to say, this is a common undercurrent to many threads on this board, and (as I have discussed in PMs with other members) it leads some people to stick to the curriculum board to avoid reading offensive characterizations about people on food stamps and the like.

 

That being said, this clearly is a troubled child in a troubling situation. I hope everyone gets help.

[RoughCollie]

Journey, the girl is not real bright. Her friendship with my DD proves that. The girl gets angry because my DD tells her what to do and sounds like a mother.

 

My DD is trying to save the girl from herself. Like the time the girl heard a car coming and laid down in the middle of the road. The girl wanted to scare the driver.

 

Not real bright, considering that the roads are winding, we can hear trucks, farm equipment, and cars way before we can see them.

 

She could have been run over! She thinks it is funny and she used to do it a lot. Not real bright.

 

I don't know whether she still does it -- it was news to her mother when I told her about it. I found out because one of the drivers stopped to let me know they were calling the state police *on us* because they knew we had a DD, and they figured it was she.

 

Also, just because you receive government aid does not mean that I have to agree that helping someone out is the same thing as a permanent lifestyle, because I do not.

 

I did not choose to live here. Neither did my kids. DH made that decision out of absolute necessity. There was no other rational choice, unless we wanted to live in a box and starve to death. We can't wait to get out of here, God willing and the creek don't rise.

 

My post wasn't about you, Journey. My description of the family's situation was given to fill in the background.

 

I don't think posting about it on the internet is a problem. Unless you can identify this family? Offer your services to the FBI if you succeed, because they need people like you.

 

I think your post to me was way out of line. You projected your personal situation and feelings onto me, via my posts, and I will not take responsibility for making you feel badly. I'm sorry if my posts bother you, of course, because it is never my intention to hurt anyone's feelings. I suggest you do not read them. Put me on ignore.

[Orthodox6]

Grieves me to read so smart-alecky sounding a reply to Journey. (Your legitimate frustration with your local situation possibly affects your ways of expression.) I corresponded briefly with her, and I don't find her ill-natured at all.

[RoughCollie]

I didn't get a snobby vibe from the OP at all.... it simply seemed as if she was stating what a hard life this woman has had.

 

The fact that you are on this board in the first place shows that you care about your children and thier education. :grouphug:

 

Thank you for defending me; I appreciate that.

 

I do want to make another point. The mother in the situation I described does care very much about her children and their education. She is overwhelmed by the problems with her daughter and by her extreme (IMO) poverty. She may have made her own bed, but I don't think she intended for it to turn out this way.

 

Her DD is out of control. The mother has to pay steep fines every time her DD is absent from school without excuse more than 4 times a year, and every time her DD skips school for the day to lolligag around town.

 

The reason my DD did not come to me immediately with the current problem is that (1) the other girl does not do anything any adult says to do -- indeed, she makes sure to do the opposite, and (2) I sniffed out trouble within about a minute, and my DD knew that.

 

This woman simply does not have the resources to handle the problems that arise. She is often stuck between a rock and a hard place. The live-in boyfriend is a good example of that.

 

The rock is that without his income, she could not make it financially. They did not have much heat in their home during this very cold winter because she & her boyfriend could not afford to buy oil. The hard place is that she felt she had to put up with him because he had a job and she justified it because she loved him (let's don't go there) and he did not physically abuse anyone (until a few days ago).

 

She has to make choices between bad things. Now she has decided that the boyfriend has crossed the line and she has permanently severed her relationship with him. I fully supported that choice.

 

As a result, she will not have enough money to pay for the basic needs of her family. She has not been able to work "under the table" as a babysitter for a long time because there are no jobs here. She cannot take a regular job because (1) she is disabled - I don't know how; and (2) it would decrease her benefits more than it would increase her income.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Journey, the girl is not real bright. Her friendship with my DD proves that. The girl gets angry because my DD tells her what to do and sounds like a mother.

 

My DD is trying to save the girl from herself. Like the time the girl heard a car coming and laid down in the middle of the road. The girl wanted to scare the driver.

 

Not real bright, considering that the roads are winding, we can hear trucks, farm equipment, and cars way before we can see them.

 

She could have been run over! She thinks it is funny and she used to do it a lot. Not real bright.

 

I don't know whether she still does it -- it was news to her mother when I told her about it. I found out because one of the drivers stopped to let me know they were calling the state police *on us* because they knew we had a DD, and they figured it was she.

 

Also, just because you receive government aid does not mean that I have to agree that helping someone out is the same thing as a permanent lifestyle, because I do not.

 

I did not choose to live here. Neither did my kids. DH made that decision out of absolute necessity. There was no other rational choice, unless we wanted to live in a box and starve to death. We can't wait to get out of here, God willing and the creek don't rise.

 

My post wasn't about you, Journey. My description of the family's situation was given to fill in the background.

 

I don't think posting about it on the internet is a problem. Unless you can identify this family? Offer your services to the FBI if you succeed, because they need people like you.

 

I think your post to me was way out of line. You projected your personal situation and feelings onto me, via my posts, and I will not take responsibility for making you feel badly. I'm sorry if my posts bother you, of course, because it is never my intention to hurt anyone's feelings. I suggest you do not read them. Put me on ignore.

 

Very well written. You are being very objective.

[Renee in NC]

Grieves me to read so smart-alecky sounding a reply to Journey. (Your legitimate frustration with your local situation possibly affects your ways of expression.) I corresponded briefly with her, and I don't find her ill-natured at all.

 

I have corresponded with Rough Collie quite a bit. She has *never* said or done the things that Journey accused her of to me, even though my family is on public assistance. She is *not* snobby and Journey doesn't know her story anymore than she know's Journey's.

 

I know there is an undercurrent on this board regarding poor people and their use of gov't resources (regardless of situation) but Rough Collie isn't part of that.

[RoughCollie]

However, in your own dealings with this family, I hope you're able to extend love even as you set good boundaries.

 

I am permitting my DD to be friends with the younger sister, because this girl is a well-behaved, keep the peace child. She does not continually get into trouble or advocate doing so. She does not hit people or steal. Being around me and my family will not hurt her and may in some small way even help her somehow.

 

There is no need to get into the psychology of this, but I do want to let you know that I am aware of it. Out of the two kids in the family, one is well-behaved, and the other is the opposite.

 

I am the mother's friendly acquaintance. She has been calling me for months about problems that arise and I give her good, common sense advice and emotional support. Once in awhile, when things are really in an uproar, I take dinner over to them. When the weather warms up, the mother's foot will have healed (it is broken) and we will walk together every day.

 

I do not like the situation the girl is in. She is completely out of control both at school and at home. Her choices are destined to ruin her future. I am particularly not thrilled that she may go into foster care. There are great foster parents, I know, but I also know plenty of horror stories.

 

I am horrified by this family's circumstances. The causes of the various problems they have go way beyond financial, I am sure. They also go beyond my ability to help them much, beyond what I am already doing.

 

 

 

 

Given what I know, I am not surprised at all.

[unsinkable]

I am permitting my DD to be friends with the younger sister, because this girl is a well-behaved, keep the peace child. She does not continually get into trouble or advocate doing so. She does not hit people or steal. Being around me and my family will not hurt her and may in some small way even help her somehow.

 

There is no need to get into the psychology of this, but I do want to let you know that I am aware of it. Out of the two kids in the family, one is well-behaved, and the other is the opposite.

 

I am the mother's friendly acquaintance. She has been calling me for months about problems that arise and I give her good, common sense advice and emotional support. Once in awhile, when things are really in an uproar, I take dinner over to them. When the weather warms up, the mother's foot will have healed (it is broken) and we will walk together every day.

 

I do not like the situation the girl is in. She is completely out of control both at school and at home. Her choices are destined to ruin her future. I am particularly not thrilled that she may go into foster care. There are great foster parents, I know, but I also know plenty of horror stories.

 

I am horrified by this family's circumstances. The causes of the various problems they have go way beyond financial, I am sure. They also go beyond my ability to help them much, beyond what I am already doing.

 

 

 

 

Given what I know, I am not surprised at all.

 

.

Edited March 24, 2010 by unsinkable

[RoughCollie]

Heidi, I am offering support to the younger daughter. I hope that our family is a good influence on her. I am also hoping to make some time for her to help her with her schoolwork, as she is not doing well in school.

 

I don't know her very well. She has just started to warm up to me. She was quite taken aback about our rules and boundaries. I do not think she is used to that.

 

OTOH, by now she realizes that rules do have exceptions: I did let her spend the weekend here, after her mother was beaten up. At her mother's request, I did not tell her what was going on, because the poor kid would have been worried and scared. I told her that the boyfriend had moved out, and she was very happy to hear it.

 

Also, her methods of ingratiating herself so that no one will hurt her do not work with me. I will not hurt her and she doesn't have to clean my house, for example, to make sure of that. The poor kid was begging me to let her do housework, complete with an oral resume of her skills -- it about broke my heart.

[Orthodox6]

I don't consider Rough Collie snobby or any other negative epithet. I reacted solely to the one, later post, some of which comes across most unkindly. If you had read more carefully, you have would noticed that I acknowledge that the stress she is under from the situation may be colouring her writing. That clearly indicates to the reader that I do not hold a negative view of RC's character.

 

I have corresponded with Rough Collie quite a bit. She has *never* said or done the things that Journey accused her of to me, even though my family is on public assistance. She is *not* snobby and Journey doesn't know her story anymore than she know's Journey's.

 

I know there is an undercurrent on this board regarding poor people and their use of gov't resources (regardless of situation) but Rough Collie isn't part of that.

[RoughCollie]

Grieves me to read so smart-alecky sounding a reply to Journey. (Your legitimate frustration with your local situation possibly affects your ways of expression.) I corresponded briefly with her, and I don't find her ill-natured at all.

 

I just said what I think, directly and to the point.

 

I don't find the OP to be ill-natured either, btw. You read that into what I said, from inside yourself.

[Orthodox6]

Fair enough. I did the same. Case closed amicably.

 

I just said what I think, directly and to the point.

[astrid]

Thank you for defending me; I appreciate that.

 

I do want to make another point. The mother in the situation I described does care very much about her children and their education. She is overwhelmed by the problems with her daughter and by her extreme (IMO) poverty. She may have made her own bed, but I don't think she intended for it to turn out this way.

 

Her DD is out of control. The mother has to pay steep fines every time her DD is absent from school without excuse more than 4 times a year, and every time her DD skips school for the day to lolligag around town.

 

The reason my DD did not come to me immediately with the current problem is that (1) the other girl does not do anything any adult says to do -- indeed, she makes sure to do the opposite, and (2) I sniffed out trouble within about a minute, and my DD knew that.

 

This woman simply does not have the resources to handle the problems that arise. She is often stuck between a rock and a hard place. The live-in boyfriend is a good example of that.

 

The rock is that without his income, she could not make it financially. They did not have much heat in their home during this very cold winter because she & her boyfriend could not afford to buy oil. The hard place is that she felt she had to put up with him because he had a job and she justified it because she loved him (let's don't go there) and he did not physically abuse anyone (until a few days ago).

 

She has to make choices between bad things. Now she has decided that the boyfriend has crossed the line and she has permanently severed her relationship with him. I fully supported that choice.

 

As a result, she will not have enough money to pay for the basic needs of her family. She has not been able to work "under the table" as a babysitter for a long time because there are no jobs here. She cannot take a regular job because (1) she is disabled - I don't know how; and (2) it would decrease her benefits more than it would increase her income.

 

 

Thanks for the explanation. That's a very different picture than what I had in mind when you called her "sordid" and "uncivilized" (post #4)

 

Sounds like a very sad situation all the way around.

And journey--- :grouphug:

 

astrid

[RoughCollie]

OP - you need to quietly get some protection in place for you family. Between the angry dad and the jilted girl, I think there is definitely cause for concern.

 

ETA Doesn't your dd go to school with this girl? How is she feeling about it?

 

I do get scared being out here in the middle of nowhere, the only unarmed family, especially since it takes the state police so long to get here.

 

Late last night, after everyone else had gone to bed, the dog was very restless, pacing, barking. I put him outside, but it was pitch black out there, and I couldn't see what could have been causing this. It is so dark out here, unless it is a moonlit night, that by the time I can see anyone, they will be standing right in front of me.

 

Our dog's protective abilities have never been tested. I can only hope that his inner pit bull would come out if we needed protection. He is large and has very big teeth.

 

The mother has a shotgun. That is what worried me the most: What if the girl got it and came down here?

 

My DD has been nicely trying to shed herself of her friendship with the girl for awhile now. They don't share any classes at school. They also don't hang out with the same people at school. They became friends in the first place because the girl came to our house to introduce herself to my DD. The other girls in the area who are the same age refuse to associate with this girl. I found that out from their parents and from my kids.

 

So DD feels relieved. She also feels badly because she is a rescuer of people and champion of the underdog. It took me until I was in my late 20s before I realized that rescuing people does not work, unless they want to rescue themselves as well. So I understand how DD feels, and we have been talking about it.

[RoughCollie]

Thanks for the explanation. That's a very different picture than what I had in mind when you called her "sordid" and "uncivilized" (post #4)

 

Sounds like a very sad situation all the way around.

And journey--- :grouphug:

 

astrid

 

I'm sorry, but you misread my post. I did not call HER sordid and uncivilized. I called the entire mess sordid and uncivilized.

 

The operative pronoun in my sentence is "it". I never refer to people as "it".

[astrid]

I'm sorry, but you misread my post. I did not call HER sordid and uncivilized. I called the entire mess sordid and uncivilized.

 

The operative pronoun in my sentence is "it". I never refer to people as "it".

 

No, I got that. And I"m not slamming you. I realize you referred to the situation as sordid and uncivilized. But you also placed the woman in the center of the whole situation, so by association, those adjectives could logically be applied to the person around which this drama swirls.

 

 

Not sure why you're apologizing.

 

astrid

[RoughCollie]

No, I got that. And I"m not slamming you. I realize you referred to the situation as sordid and uncivilized. But you also placed the woman in the center of the whole situation, so by association, those adjectives could logically be applied to the person around which this drama swirls.

astrid

 

I find woman-beating (and man and child beating) and violent (physical and verbal) public and private drunkenness to be sordid and uncivilized.

 

The direct victim here, of both the beatings and the drunkenness, is the mother. If I find her to be sordid and uncivilized, I suppose it follows that I find rape victims to be in the same condition as they are the person around whom the sordid, unlawful, uncivilized, drama swirls. That does not sound logical to me.

 

Re my apology: I am sorry you misinterpreted my original post, from which this discussion is derived.

Edited March 24, 2010 by RoughCollie

[astrid]

I find woman-beating (and man and child beating) and violent (physical and verbal) public and private drunkenness to be sordid and uncivilized.

 

So there.

 

"SO THERE?" LOL! Wow....I'm not quite sure how to respond to that. :001_huh:

 

are you implying that I don't find that behavior sordid and uncivilized?

It's just that your explanatory post (to which I replied) painted the mom a bit differently. I sensed more compassion for her in the post to which I responded. That's all.

 

As I said, I wasn't slamming you.

 

But "So There" ? Seriously??

astrid

[RoughCollie]

"SO THERE?" LOL! Wow....I'm not quite sure how to respond to that. :001_huh:

 

are you implying that I don't find that behavior sordid and uncivilized?

It's just that your explanatory post (to which I replied) painted the mom a bit differently. I sensed more compassion for her in the post to which I responded. That's all.

 

As I said, I wasn't slamming you.

 

But "So There" ? Seriously??

astrid

 

I'm not implying anything. I edited the "so there" out before I saw your post -- I decided it was a juvenile comment.

 

I am saying that I do not think your inferences were logical ones.

[astrid]

I'm not implying anything. I edited the so there out before I saw your post -- I decided it was a juvenile comment.

 

Okay.

 

astrid

[ciyates]

I think you did the right thing under the circumstances. Unless you are ethically opposed to guns I would suggest getting one and having the entire family well versed in how to use it. I personally don't like guns, would rather not own one but do understand it is a valuable skill that is worth having. I honestly don't think the girl would come back and attack you but then again I can't imagine her beating her mother either.

 

P.S. I didn't take your comment to be snobby. I grew up in a similar rural area where most people fit that bill and it didn't offend me.

[Melissa in Australia]

I don't live in a town, but there is a small town 10 miles away. I live in a rural area. There are dairy farms all over the place. This is definitely out in the country.

 

This is the first time I've ever been in a rural area, let alone lived in one, unless you count driving through one on the interstate.

In reality, these people are in most country areas,if you go looking for them. They have usually lived in the area for many generations and seemed caught in a cycle. I have lived all my life in a rural area, and you really don't notice these kind of people after a while. I am sure there are these kind of people in the cities to, they are just not as noticeable.

[RoughCollie]

Update on the situation.

 

The girl is staying at a friend's house in town for the rest of the week.

 

The now-ex-boyfriend apologized, and she is afraid she will weaken and take him back because she is afraid to be the only adult in the house. She is looking for a roommate, but it has to be someone she knows or is a friend of a friend, because she is afraid to rent a room to a pedophile, criminal, drunk, drug-user, etc.

 

She does not want to put her DD in foster care because she will lose her DD's food stamps and cash money (I don't know which benefit the cash is from). That will mean she and her other DD will not have enough money to live on for their basic needs. She is trying to persuade the family who has the girl now to keep her.

 

Her parents kept her DD for a year after her DD broke her ribs, and they will not take her again because of what they went through.

 

I advised the mother to talk to the priest at her church and lay this all out on the table. The conversation will be confidential and maybe he can help her. I reassured her that she will not be rejected because she has not attended church in the last few years (and I hope I am right). This is the church she and her kids have gone to for the last 15 or more years (except for the recent hiatus).

 

****

 

My DD said she is glad that the girl is living in town now because the girl "creeps her out". When I asked how, my DD said that the girl seems to have no conscience and does things that solely benefit herself no matter how much they hurt other people. My DD thinks the girl is either a sociopath or a narcissist.

 

From what the mother has told me about the girl (which I have not shared with DD), my DD may be correct.

 

****

If anyone has any ideas about how I can be supportive of the mother, please let me know. Right now, just listening to the mother and giving her common sense advice (like talking to the priest) seems to help her.

 

I don't have any money, so I can't fix the problems with that. I also don't have much time.

 

I could offer to help with budgeting and frugal meal planning, but I don't want to insult her. For all I know, she is a whiz at both.

 

Thanks,

RC

[RoughCollie]

Unless you are ethically opposed to guns I would suggest getting one and having the entire family well versed in how to use it.

 

I'll be honest about our reason for not owning a gun. DH and I do not want to own a gun. We have 4 teens and we are cognizant of the problem of teen suicide. We want to be sure that our teens don't have this quick and easy method of doing themselves in, should the circumstance arise in which they want to.

 

So far, none of our children are depressed. But the worm can turn easily for teenagers, according to what we have read and have socially talked to professionals about, hence our preventive measure.

 

There are a bunch of gun ranges around here, and I do intend for the kids and I to take gun safety and shooting lessons.

 

Also, I'm sure that having lived in MA (a major gun control state) has colored our view. We lived in an extremely low-crime area, in which gun ownership was practically nil. Our senses of personal safety are not as high since we moved here, whether that is rational or not.

 

I don't think we live in a particularly high-crime area now. But it is practically deserted and everyone owns a gun, and this is just so different from anywhere I have lived before that it feels less secure to me.

 

I have led a very sheltered life. I knew that I grew up in a very sheltered environment, but I had no idea until now that I have been sheltered all my life. It isn't that I didn't know intellectually that there are different environments that people live in -- but I didn't live there, and that makes a big difference.

 

We live in a rural area now, and it is nothing like I thought it would be. This place is not populated solely with happy, friendly, farmers and their happy, friendly animals, living happily in nature, singing and laughing through their days.

 

Instead, this is a place full of farmers who are very hardworking, every day, rain or shine, no matter what. I see now why people left the farms for the city.

[Harriet Vane]

I just want to affirm your choices in this situation. You have been very, very kind to people who clearly are struggling with poor choices and extreme dysfunction. I understand the reality of this--I live in a poor, difficult, urban environment by choice.

 

For the mother, I think you have been kind. I don't know that there is more to do--that's something for you to pray about. There is a fine line between helping and enabling. Sometimes the best help is not to help. Only God can show you the right path.

 

As for foster care or not--this child does sound very, very disturbed and utterly out of control. Referring her to social services may be the best thing for her. I have personally seen the system save/help some very difficult circumstances. (I have also seen the system damage things terribly--I understand the legitimate fear. However, there are times that the system is an appropriate choice and can truly help.)

 

I cannot say what to do--only offer thoughts for your consideration. It sounds very upsetting, though, and I commend you for your desire to help.

[Brilliant]

 

Someone I know in Pittsburgh referred to where we live as being in Deliverance. I've not seen that movie, but I take it Deliverance is a bad place?

 

RC

 

I don't think anybody answered this. Yes, it is a very bad place and a very bad movie. If you are tempted to watch it to satisfy your curiosity - don't. I saw the movie a couple of years ago and it was DISTURBING. I wish I could get some of those images out of my head.

[RoughCollie]

If you are tempted to watch it to satisfy your curiosity - don't.

 

Okay, I won't watch it. Thanks for the warning voice of experience.

[RoughCollie]

There is a fine line between helping and enabling. Sometimes the best help is not to help. Only God can show you the right path.

 

Thank you for your kind words. I agree with you about God -- He knows where that fine line is located.

[LauraGB]

If you are not comfortable with guns, don't buy one. Please. I'm not a gun-gal myself and I know that if ever we were to have one, it would not be used my me - it would end up easily in the hands of the other guy. Don't put yourself through that if it is not something you believe in.

 

As for the situation with the mom, I agree with a pp - let her do her thing. You and your dd have tried for a quite a while to help her. Seriously and gently - some people, no matter how many tears of appreciation they shed over your attention, will. not. change. It is heartbreaking and it sounds cold, but it is true. Many do, yes! But many, many do not, not based on what one or two nice people do to help. Are you dealing with a family like that?

[Laurie4b]

Our senses of personal safety are not as high since we moved here, whether that is rational or not.

 

I don't think we live in a particularly high-crime area now. But it is practically deserted and everyone owns a gun, and this is just so different from anywhere I have lived before that it feels less secure to me.

 

QUOTE]

 

I live in an area that has some pretty large urban centers, suburbs, and rural farming areas, all within 20 minutes driving distance. In the rural areas, and in the little neighborhoods adjoining the farm areas, pretty much everyone owns a gun. There's almost no crime in those areas.

 

It's different in town and in the urban areas where some people own guns but most don't. The crime is much higher.

 

All that's to say, I wouldn't feel less safe because everyone around owns guns; I'd feel more safe even though I didn't own one. Your opportunistic criminal knows that everyone in those areas likely owns a firearm, and goes for easier prey. That's my thinking anyway, and the crime patterns around here are consistent with it.

[RoughCollie]

But many, many do not, not based on what one or two nice people do to help. Are you dealing with a family like that?

 

I won't buy a gun. DH is 100% against it.

 

I don't know if I'm dealing with a family like that. I suspect so, but time will tell.

 

I've got firm boundaries. I don't play any games. I tell it like it is to prevent future problems.

[Guest janainaz]

That is such a difficult situation. I am protective of my kids and I don't want them around kids that could cause them harm either. This girl sounds like she's not good company for your daughter for sure.

 

As far as her beating up her mother and that whole situation, it's just plain sad. Clearly, she needs to not be looked at like a 'bad' kid, but rather one that needs some help. It's an important distinction to make because teaching your own kids to see the why's behind behavior can help them learn compassion and mercy. I don't think any kids are 'bad' kids, just one's that have not been given great circumstances for a healthy upbringing. Some kids become stronger in those circumstances and some are taken down with them. Why that is, I don't know, but the words of other mothers and other people can have tremendous power in either direction.

 

Just something to think about.

[RoughCollie]

All that's to say, I wouldn't feel less safe because everyone around owns guns; I'd feel more safe even though I didn't own one. Your opportunistic criminal knows that everyone in those areas likely owns a firearm, and goes for easier prey. That's my thinking anyway, and the crime patterns around here are consistent with it.

 

Good point.

[RoughCollie]

Why that is, I don't know, but the words of other mothers and other people can have tremendous power in either direction.

 

Well, this particular girl won't be hearing any words from me because she is not allowed on our property.

 

I hope, for her sake, that she can be helped.