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Anybody want to talk about LOST? (spoilers ahead)

Rhonda in TX
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Moxie

Moxie

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I am SO SAD about Sayid. Really, really bummed. And what happened to Benjamin Linus?

 

I had wondered if Flocke was the truly evil one and yep, I'm pretty sure that he is.

 

 

No way! Last night was some of the best acting I've seen in a long time. I think evil Sayid makes things much more interesting. Where was Sawyer last night? Is Kate going to the dark side now or is she just confused? The next 10 episodes are going to be great!

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Rhonda in TX

Rhonda in TX

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I just hate to see Sayid turn really bad. Sigh...

 

I think Kate is just caught up with Flocke. I doubt she'll really side with him. I do wonder what will happen with Claire, though. She said she'd kill Kate if she had taken Aaron. I think Sawyer is waiting to meet up with them somewhere.

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ChristusG

ChristusG

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At first I thought that Sayid might be Jacob, but now I'm not so sure. From the glimpse that we saw of the interaction between the man in black and Jacob in an earlier season gave the impression that they dislike each other. Last night Flocke and Sayid seemed to be on the same side towards the end of the episode.

 

I just wish they'd answer questions instead of making more!! I do love learning more about the Losties though.....in their "alternate universe." I'm interested to see how that will tie into the whole thing.

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CalicoKat

CalicoKat

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the writers of this show must be smoking something . . . . screwy, crazy, twisted, makes no sense at all . . . but it's a good show to watch while knitting.

 

I bet the ending will be just like the rest of the show -- alot of somethings that add up to nothing.

 

"And that's why they call him Cliff Hanger!"

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stripe

stripe

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I was very unhappy with the creepy evil out-of-his eye look Sayid kept shooting everyone and then going on a killing binge, coupled with shots of him killing people off the island.

 

I've never liked Locke. And Claire (and her unwashed hair) give me the willies. And the smoke being back. Yech.

 

I do like the shots of people seeing each other (or not!) off the island, like the shot of Jack in the hospital when Sayid was there, and the mysterious appearance of Jin in the frig/closet.

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KnitWit

KnitWit

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We love LOST here!

 

I think *Locke* is the smoke monster in human form. I think he is trying to get off the island so he can get into *civilization*.

 

I thought Sayid was Jacob now...but not so sure. LOL!

 

Okay, MY guess is that at the end of the season, it will be as if the *island* never happened at all. :) That's my guess. LOL!

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Country Mouse

Country Mouse

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After last night's episode I am starting to wonder if Jacob and MIB are two parts of a whole. Dogen said something about each man has a scale that must be balanced between good and evil...and there was that scale in the cave a few episodes back, Flocke tossed the white stone out to make the scale unbalanced...

I'm dying to read what Doc Jensen writes about last night's episode.

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KnitWit

KnitWit

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After last night's episode I am starting to wonder if Jacob and MIB are two parts of a whole. The Dogen said something about each man has a scale that must be balanced between good and evil...and there was that scale in the cave a few episodes back, Flocke tossed the white stone out to make the scale unbalanced...

I'd dying to read what Doc Jensen writes about last night's episode.

 

Good point

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elegantlion

elegantlion

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The first fight between Sayid & Dogen was cool. I've watched since season 1 and this year I'm not even trying to figure it out ahead of time. I did like the Annotated Alice in the story last night.

 

At least we have an answer about where Jin was taking the watch, I think.

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MelanieM

MelanieM

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That was such a great episode!

 

I don't think there it's going to end with a clear line of good/bad. I think it might be more a playground of the gods scenario. In other words, Jacob/MIB and buds having it on at the expense of the humans. Pick a side, play the game, and see what shakes out.

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Surlygirlie

Surlygirlie

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Me too. I am really invested at this point and I am really worried that no matter what the ending is, I might be disappointed.

 

My biggest fear as well. On another board, someone has speculated that perhaps the alternate universe we are getting glimpses of (Jack as a father, Locke happily with Helen but still in a wheelchair, etc) is actually the epilogue of the show. I'm not sure how I feel about that, but if the rest of the glimpses are as deeply resonant as Sayid's, then maybe I could get on board with it.

 

The last episode is the first of the season that I truly loved. It felt like the first season of Lost.

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Heather in OK

Heather in OK

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If this all ends up to be some sort of dream or something, I'm going to be ticked LOL.

IIRC, the writers of the show have already said that won't be what happens.

 

I am starting to wonder if Jacob and MIB are two parts of a whole.

Yes, good point. Could be playing into the idea of the trinity.

 

I also think they are going to start killing off major characters. It looks like Ben is wacked next week. And Claire has already said that if she found Kate and found out she had Aaron, she would kill Kate.

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KidsHappen

KidsHappen

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I just read a quote from Damon in Entertainment magazine that said something to the effect that at this point you trusted them enough to get in the car and go along for the ride, you might not like the way they are driving but they are in the driver's seat and they aren't pulling over to let you out now so sit down, shut up and hang on. It also said that you should not assume that white means good and black means evil which I figured out a few episode ago.

 

This week though, I finally reached a point where I have given up trying to even figure out what the heck is going on and I am just hoping for the best.

 

Some things I did notice was that Dogen and Sayid had made the same deal with the devil and they did it for the same reasons. They both did the wrong thing for the right reason and I can't possibly see where it makes any difference what-so-ever whether they did it for good or for evil when they had no way of knowing the difference. I don't see how they could possible be judged differently. Also, while the MIB actively killed a lot of people last night, Jacob knew it was going to happen and I think he could have done something about it but chose not to so I don't see where he is any less culpable for their deaths. I think it is going to turn out that their is no one ultimately good or evil side but instead that there is going to be an epic battle in which the two sides fight essentially the same things for the same reasons.

 

I was also reflecting on how in the first season we just had the survivors and how they had splinted into two groups and we were trying to decide which was good and which was bad - John vs. Jack, then in second season we had the tailies vs. the orginal survivors, then in second season the survivors vs, the others, then in season four we start to see the two groups of all the people left dividing into two groups and then in season five it seemed that it ultimately came down to Ben and Charles but now it is between Jacob and the MIB but then I started to think no it is God and Satan but now I am starting to think it is more yin and yang - the good and bad in everyone and it the world as a whole.

 

I don't know how they are going to resolve it but I think a lot of people are going to start dying here soon and not in ways we want to see them go. They mentioned Ben and it is funny but after three or four seasons or hating the man and thinking he is the most loathsome creature alive he is suddenly seeming very sympathetic and I would hate to see him go now. Unfotunately, I think Sawyer is going to make the untimate sacrcfice to save his friends. Obviously John is going to die and if Jack takes Jacob's place I think he just might die as well. I have no idea about Kate as she appears to just be wondering around lost and I am not even sure she is an intergera part of the plan as her name was not even on the list. I can't imagine Hurley dying and I don't see any reason wy Sun or Jin would.

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Chris in VA

Chris in VA

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I think a key clue was given in this episode--Hurley and Miles played tic-tac-toe, and kept coming to a tie. That's what happens when ttt is played "correctly"--there is no winner.

Perhaps there will be no winner in LOST--except...

THe writers are said to be huge fans of The Matrix. A key line in the last Matrix movie (not an exact quote here) occurs when Neo is talking to the Oracle. She says, in effect, that the battle is for balance, but her job is to unbalance it--i.e., make good come out the winner.

Neo had to sacrifice himself to make that unbalanced outcome for the good.

So, I think it will take a third party (not MIB, not Jacob) to unbalance the equation--and I think it will be Sawyer and possibly Kate, or maybe Jack and Kate, who sacrifice themselves somehow, and make "it work" as Juliet said it does--I think they are Adam and Eve in the cave, and they sacrificed themselves, which will lead to the ending--and I think the ending is what we are seeing in the flash sideways.

 

So how's THAT for a theory! Pretty good, huh? :lol:

I amaze myself sometimes.

 

 

:lol::lol::lol:

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TXMary2

TXMary2

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I just watched the episode online so I could see the first half that I missed. I am very confused. Are Sayid and Flocke on the same side? I don't get it. Why does Claire hate Kate? I know awhile back there was something with Kate about how she wasn't supposed to raise Aaron........but why isn't Claire grateful her son got off the island? Will Dogen and Lennon stay dead? So far this season is only more questions.....when will the answers come? LOL

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Janna

Janna

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At first I was getting upset that these characters, whom we have grown to love for the most part, are now turning evil. If that is indeed the case, then I will truly be bummed.

 

However, I also had to remind myself that because we've "known" these characters over the past few years, perhaps we shouldn't misjudge them, but let their "character" (LOL) speak for itself. There have been plenty of times in the past where Sayid has done something "evil" with the *intent* of discovering the good. Or perhaps, with the intent of discovering the *truth* would be more accurate. Kate and Sawyer have done the same thing. So, given that, I can't help but wonder if Sayid is not truly evil, but trying to get to the bottom of the weirdness that is going on. Which is why I wonder, based on Kates expression, if she is not going to do the same thing - follow Flocke, pretend to be on his "side" but only to discover the truth and fight for the good. That is my hope anyway.

 

Now, when I was watching the pop-up episode of the show 2 weeks ago, when Flocke takes Sawyer to the cave, I noticed that the number next to Jack's last name (Shepherd) was 23. Did anyone else immediately think of Psalm 23, "The Lord is my Shepherd..."?

 

Also, someone mentioned above (can't recall who) that the writer of a particular article stated that you can't necessarily believe that good and evil are represented by white and black. I disagree with this because of the pop up episode where the producers specifically stated that a major theme of LOST is good vs. evil, represented by light and dark (or maybe they specifically said white and black; I can't recall). This was at the time that Flocke took the white stone and threw it. So, I am going with their word. And because of that, I think there is a lot of over-thinking from viewers about this show and making things more complicated than they really are. Perhaps what's happening really is what meets the eye.

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OhM

OhM

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So, I think it will take a third party (not MIB, not Jacob) to unbalance the equation--and I think it will be Sawyer and possibly Kate, or maybe Jack and Kate, who sacrifice themselves somehow, and make "it work" as Juliet said it does--I think they are Adam and Eve in the cave, and they sacrificed themselves, which will lead to the ending--and I think the ending is what we are seeing in the flash sideways.

 

So how's THAT for a theory! Pretty good, huh? :lol:

 

 

I think it's a fantastic theory! And when you mentioned 3rd party, I immediately thought - "Hurley!" I've always thought he's more important to the whole thing (whatever it is!) than he seems.

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jujsky

jujsky

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I just hate to see Sayid turn really bad. Sigh...

 

I think Kate is just caught up with Flocke. I doubt she'll really side with him. I do wonder what will happen with Claire, though. She said she'd kill Kate if she had taken Aaron. I think Sawyer is waiting to meet up with them somewhere.

 

I don't think Sayid is bad. That creepy temple guy tried to kill him at least twice. Was Sayid supposed to sit around and wait for Try #3? Nah! Sayid wouldn't chance it.

 

I'm starting to think that there may not be a good side or an evil side. What if Jacob and Flocke are both gods and the mortals are just hapless victims in their own little game?

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GWOB

GWOB

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I guess I'm the only one who, so far, has found this season to be boring...

I think I've been spoiled by Fringe. :lol:

 

Do you find it boring because Sawyer has yet to be seen shirtless this season? Because, while I LOVE this show and all the intricacies, I really just watch for Sawyer, and a preferably shirtless Sawyer.

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Avila

Avila

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Do you find it boring because Sawyer has yet to be seen shirtless this season? Because, while I LOVE this show and all the intricacies, I really just watch for Sawyer, and a preferably shirtless Sawyer.

 

But you did get him pantless. Be grateful for that! ;)

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Jenny in Atl

Jenny in Atl

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Do you find it boring because Sawyer has yet to be seen shirtless this season? Because, while I LOVE this show and all the intricacies, I really just watch for Sawyer, and a preferably shirtless Sawyer.

 

I don't know... sure it would be nice to see more of Sawyer, but I guess I'm missing more of the story (the Island's story). I also miss Ben. He's become just a yes man. Also the duel story line is frustrating. There's not enough time nor effort into exploring both. How many episodes do we have left? Don't get me wrong though, I will watch it to the end.

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KidsHappen

KidsHappen

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At first I was getting upset that these characters, whom we have grown to love for the most part, are now turning evil. If that is indeed the case, then I will truly be bummed.

 

However, I also had to remind myself that because we've "known" these characters over the past few years, perhaps we shouldn't misjudge them, but let their "character" (LOL) speak for itself. There have been plenty of times in the past where Sayid has done something "evil" with the *intent* of discovering the good. Or perhaps, with the intent of discovering the *truth* would be more accurate. Kate and Sawyer have done the same thing. So, given that, I can't help but wonder if Sayid is not truly evil, but trying to get to the bottom of the weirdness that is going on. Which is why I wonder, based on Kates expression, if she is not going to do the same thing - follow Flocke, pretend to be on his "side" but only to discover the truth and fight for the good. That is my hope anyway.

 

Now, when I was watching the pop-up episode of the show 2 weeks ago, when Flocke takes Sawyer to the cave, I noticed that the number next to Jack's last name (Shepherd) was 23. Did anyone else immediately think of Psalm 23, "The Lord is my Shepherd..."?

 

Also, someone mentioned above (can't recall who) that the writer of a particular article stated that you can't necessarily believe that good and evil are represented by white and black. I disagree with this because of the pop up episode where the producers specifically stated that a major theme of LOST is good vs. evil, represented by light and dark (or maybe they specifically said white and black; I can't recall). This was at the time that Flocke took the white stone and threw it. So, I am going with their word. And because of that, I think there is a lot of over-thinking from viewers about this show and making things more complicated than they really are. Perhaps what's happening really is what meets the eye.

 

Yes, they said a major theme is good vs. evil and dark vs. light but they did not say that good = white and evil = black. So it is entirely possible that we are assuming Jacob is good because he is dressed in white and the MIB is bad because he is dressed in black and that may not be the case. Also the magazine did give the name of the MIB but it was not something I recognized. It had no intrinsic meaning to me.

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GWOB

GWOB

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In the lighthouse, it showed where Jin and Sun got married and the church where Sawyer met Jacob at the funeral. It also showed Jack's house, which is not where he met Jacob. So, #23 must stand for Christian Shepard.

 

How did I miss that one! He touched Jack at the hospital. Hmmm.......

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lindsrae

lindsrae

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Notice how everyone (ok, not everyone, but lots of major characters) has sacrificed something for the "good" of others at some point...except for Jack? Sawyer gives up his place on the helicopter, Ben leaves the island, Dr. Faraday dies, Juliet dies, etc. Jacob is going after Jack; Jack is a born leader, but he has not done anything unselfishly this entire time.

 

My husband thinks Jack and Sawyer are the replacements for Jacob and MIB on the island and that Kate represents free will. (Another thing we haven't really touched on as a theme is the concept of fate vs. free will. Which is which in this story????)

 

A Shepherd lays his life down for his sheep...no greater love has any man than this, than a man lay down his life for his friends. I think we have to say goodbye to Jack before the end of the show. <sniff>

 

What I am having trouble wrapping my mind around in the alternate universe playing out in California (in addition to many other things I can't wrap my mind around!). If the plane doesn't crash on the island, this is what is happening, right? But all of these stories seem so sad and depressing--full of disappointment and lost chances. When Locke makes these promises to Sayid and Claire (about seeing their loved ones again), is this the way that promise is played out? Sayid sees Nadia, but she is married to his brother? Claire "gets" Aaron since the adoptive parents didn't want him, but is she going to make the choice to keep him. I think MIB's promises are all twisted lies.

 

And whatever happened to Walt? :)

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Rhonda in TX

Rhonda in TX

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It would appear that Sayid is now on Flocke's side. Apparently because Flocke has promised that he can return Nadia to him, or something along those lines.

 

Claire told Jin that she would kill Kate if she had taken Aaron. I think Claire is totally off her rocker and not thinking too clearly. You would think she would have wanted him off the island, especially since she disappeared, but apparently she doesn't think of it that way.

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Chris in VA

Chris in VA

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I think it's clear Sayid is dark now, as the one guy said. He described himself as good, when before all he ever said was how bad he was (including when he was talking just before he died). The real Sayid felt so guilty over the torturing he did as part of Sadaam Hussein's crew. I think it's really pretty obvious he's on the bad side now, as is Crazy Claire.

 

--

On another note, DD and I were resting together in my bed this afternoon, talking about Fake Locke, and how he's called Flocke now--so we started to put F before our family's names--Fake Mom become Fom, Fake Peter became Feter--

Then we got to my dad's name...Art.

 

 

:lol:

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TXMary2

TXMary2

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Do you find it boring because Sawyer has yet to be seen shirtless this season? Because, while I LOVE this show and all the intricacies, I really just watch for Sawyer, and a preferably shirtless Sawyer.

 

I go through withdrawl if Sawyer isn't in an episode.

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jujsky

jujsky

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Do you find it boring because Sawyer has yet to be seen shirtless this season? Because, while I LOVE this show and all the intricacies, I really just watch for Sawyer, and a preferably shirtless Sawyer.

 

:lol: Wendi, that was my biggest complaint last night. It's bad enough when they don't show shirtless Sawyer, but no Sawyer at all? Gah! What are they trying to do to me? I guess I'll have to drool over my computer wallpaper (Sawyer, of course).

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lindsrae

lindsrae

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But what about the guy in glasses? I don't see any reason for Sayid to have killed him. Sayid could have just walked away at that point. That guy was no threat to him.

 

But he wasn't going to leave the temple, so he had to be killed. That's another of Locke's promises.

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GWOB

GWOB

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:lol: Wendi, that was my biggest complaint last night. It's bad enough when they don't show shirtless Sawyer, but no Sawyer at all? Gah! What are they trying to do to me? I guess I'll have to drool over my computer wallpaper (Sawyer, of course).

 

Yep. Two episodes in a row without Sawyer! I love him. He is such a fascinating character (read- really, really HAWT!).

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KidsHappen

KidsHappen

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In the lighthouse, it showed where Jin and Sun got married and the church where Sawyer met Jacob at the funeral. It also showed Jack's house, which is not where he met Jacob. So, #23 must stand for Christian Shepard.

 

This is a good point. I questioned which Shepard when we saw the name in the cave.

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stripe

stripe

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I really like Hurley, too. He's such a nice character. And Walt! You're right! What about Walt? And what was the big mysterious thing with children on the island?

 

Keep in mind that I've missed chunks of the show, including (apparently) at least one entire season. (!)

 

But ... aren't Claire and Jack siblings (or half-siblings, I guess) through the father? I wasn't sure if they ever found out. And when they were talking to Jack about Sayid, they said someone else was evil -- his sister. Did he know who they were talking about? And what exactly made Claire (and maybe Sayid) evil, as "detected" by the torture machine?

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