hsmom Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 (edited) never mind I should not have posted about this. Sorry for taking up your time. Edited February 21, 2010 by hsmom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Have you tried therapy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmom Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 No. He would not go and if he did it would be his usual it is everyone elses fault not his and he would would do the usual lies to make everyone at each other. Like the other day he was closing the dish washer and did not want his brother in the kitchen, well ds5 was getting a cup out of the dishwasher and he slammed his hand in the dishwasher and said it was ds5 fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 How is his bio dad handling his behavior? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I am going to try to be very gentle here....read back over your post. Does this sound like a child with a healthy mental outlook? Unless there is more to the story, I think you would have to say no. I would call on Monday morning and get him an appointment with a child psychologist. Tell them things are very serious - because they are. Lying, stealing, ignoring personal hygene, cruelty to younger children - sounds like there is something "not right" there. Make the call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmom Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 How is his bio dad handling his behavior? He states I need to let him live there and he will take care of it. He lives 200 miles way from us. So, he is not around much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I am going to try to be very gentle here....read back over your post. Does this sound like a child with a healthy mental outlook? Unless there is more to the story, I think you would have to say no. I would call on Monday morning and get him an appointment with a child psychologist. Tell them things are very serious - because they are. Lying, stealing, ignoring personal hygene, cruelty to younger children - sounds like there is something "not right" there. Make the call. :iagree: There are simply some things that need extra help and this sounds like one of them. Better sooner than later. No professional is going to believe his lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Call a therapist. You are the parent, and you can insist that he goes. I also suggest family counseling. I don't believe behavior like this is ever the 'fault' of just one person, especially in the case of a child. It will only get worse from here, I'm afraid. It sounds like he has a lot of trust issues and anger issues and it doesn't sound like you or your husband are equipped to handle them right now. You need more tools to help, and he needs to learn to help himself. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougarmom4 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 :grouphug: I can relate to a lot of the feelings you shared. I also struggle with my ds12 in many ways. It is SO hard...so emotionally exhausting. Recently I have felt impressed that it all comes down to LOVE. Most of my interactions with ds tend to be negative (not that I start out that way...I always start out speaking kindly & trying not to get riled up...but then it escalates into some stupid argument over the most ridiculous things...like taking a shower). I have got to figure out a way to touch this boy's heart & re-connect with him. Not quite sure how to do it, but I feel strongly this might be the answer. Well...combined with expectations & consequences & consistency... I hope a lot of people pipe in here with some suggestions for you (and I!). Hang in there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 (edited) I would have him see someone and also try behavior modifications and explicit expectations in a big way IMHO. I am sorry if I am master of the obvious:( For example, lay down the law and take his IPod, skateboard, any and all privileges away as needed. If need be, take everything out of his room including his door except for his mattress IMHO. More importantly, get help:) :grouphug: Edited February 21, 2010 by priscilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 :iagree: with the therapy suggestions. No child wants to be that unhappy, that angry, that abusive. I've been thru this--and I know it hurts, so :grouphug:. You can go to therapy without him at first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmom Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 I have tried the react with love and anger and such. He takes advantage of that one. He uses my kindness against me. I have taken everything away. He no longer has the ipod, skateboard, toys, nothing and he really could care less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyndie Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I agree about getting professional help, even if it's just for you and dh to learn how to help him. My son went thru (and occassionally revisits) this type behavior and not only did the therapist not fall for his lies and excuses, he gave ds tools to deal and gave US tools to deal. He used scripture mostly to reach my sons heart as he is a neouthetic (SP?) counselor. It's still a work in progress here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelanieM Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 He sounds like a boy in a whole lot of pain. I agree that therapy is a great idea. I would also strongly agree with trying to find some way to meet each other with love. Do you ever spend time alone, doing something together that you both enjoy? Another thing that has really helped me overcome difficult interactions with others is focusing on the things about them that I appreciate. I write appreciation lists regularly, and try to focus my attention on positive expectation as much as possible. It makes me feel better, and get to more of a loving state, so I'm then better prepared to deal with whatever comes my way with a gracious perspective. Much love and support to you all. <hugs> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Make the call. :iagree:For everyone involved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I have tried the react with love and anger and such. He takes advantage of that one. He uses my kindness against me. I have taken everything away. He no longer has the ipod, skateboard, toys, nothing and he really could care less. :grouphug: I would try a therapist since you have tried the taking away privileges:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmom Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 Yes, I do take him out alone and try to do stuff. And he is alright for a while, but the first time I say no or something he doesn't like it is all down hill. Then he will constantly say just take me to .........house or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmom Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 Now he is a joy to be around if it is what he wants to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 He states I need to let him live there and he will take care of it. He lives 200 miles way from us. So, he is not around much. Would this be a problem? Could his dad be of greater help in this situation? (I'm asking these questions to garner a greater understanding of your situation. Thanks!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmom Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 I am not sure. I have tried with him for the last 13yrs and sometimes wonder if his father might be better for him. I just don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I am not sure. I have tried with him for the last 13yrs and sometimes wonder if his father might be better for him. I just don't know. If his dad is a good dad, maybe letting him live with his dad would help. Maybe your son needs his bio father's influence. If he isn't a good dad, then not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachrose Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Sounds to me like he doesn't feel loved or liked and the more he feels that way the more he acts like an unlikable ,unlovable person. Try to figure out what makes him feel loved we all have our own love languages and maybe you haven't reached out to him in a way that he can connect with. Honestly from your post I would say you have to fix your attitude first. Love him and expect nothing in return. Have standards and consequences but dont' focus on the negative, instead look for the good, praise every single thing he does right to the hilt. Build him up ,show him he has potential and does do some things right. He probably wont' do therapy because he views it as punishment or that you are saying there is something wrong with him. Why not go to therapy by yourself? It's hard to see the forest for the trees and often an outsiders view makes a world of difference. HTH by the way i'm not saying what i'm saying in a judgemental way more from a been there done that point of view. You can be doing everything right and be going about it all the wrong way. Meaning you could be loving this kid to death and he doesn't see it because it's not in a way he could connect to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I have two ideas... Therapy. It sounds to me like he's angry that you and his dad aren't together and now he has this guy, who's not his father, telling him what to do and this woman, who's not his mother, telling him what to do (when/if he visits them), and he has all these kids, that aren't his brothers and sisters that he has to play with. He needs help reconciling those feelings. Don't give him a choice about going. Let him lie to the therapist; a good therapist will talk to everyone in the family and see through the lies. Total Transformation. My husband received a copy of this expensive program to review. I've watched part of it to get the gist of it, and thought it had excellent potential. It is a program created by a guy who was a troubled kid and ended up in jail. He turned his life around and now helps kids like him both directly and through this program. It is a tough love program and teaches the parents how to parent these kids. It's about $300, but it might be worth it if you're at the end of your rope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 (edited) Have you tried therapy? :iagree: It could be anything from oppositional defiance disorder to ADHD to emotional issues. You just never know. It could be diet or needing meds. Some kids are hard to love -- but there may be something under the surface causing him to act out this way. You don't want this child to take the pain he has and go to the use of drugs/alcohol/risky behavior to temporarily relieve the pain or rage building up in him. He needs an assessment to see what is going on by a professional skilled with teens. I agree that the OP's attitude needs to be changed (see the child as needing help and this will be a tough road to walk) as already she is closed off to any help and has labeled the child. Edited February 21, 2010 by tex-mex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaterbabs Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Also put him on a strict elimination diet. My eldest son was dx'd with ADHD/ODD and we discovered he was reacting to all kinds of things in his food, shampoo, medicines, etc. http://wwwfeingold.org has tons of info. Once we were established stage 1, Yacko went from yelling " I wish we were all dead!" and curling up in a fetal position on the floor screaming when he dropped a pencil (yes, this actually happened) to slamming the door and shouting "It's not fair!" when he didn't get his way. He was 8 or 9 at the time. Oh, when we told the dr that we wanted to try diet before medication, he said (and I quote) "you will regret not medicating." Not once did we regret not medicating. Diet changes (when followed to the letter with no cheating) literally made my child a completely different kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Also put him on a strict elimination diet. My eldest son was dx'd with ADHD/ODD and we discovered he was reacting to all kinds of things in his food, shampoo, medicines, etc. http://wwwfeingold.org has tons of info. Once we were established stage 1, Yacko went from yelling " I wish we were all dead!" and curling up in a fetal position on the floor screaming when he dropped a pencil (yes, this actually happened) to slamming the door and shouting "It's not fair!" when he didn't get his way. He was 8 or 9 at the time. Oh, when we told the dr that we wanted to try diet before medication, he said (and I quote) "you will regret not medicating." Not once did we regret not medicating. Diet changes (when followed to the letter with no cheating) literally made my child a completely different kid. :iagree: Had a few students who were very difficult to teach due to their ADHD and behavior -- the family issues were similar to the OP in this thread. After a year of the Feingold Diet, the children were 180 degrees different! I was sold on that as an educator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jann in TX Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 We have a difficult child. She spent the weekend before 7th grade started in jail... She was physically abusing ME and verbally abusing DH and her sisters (younger and older). We were all scared of her. DH and I were the first ones to go to therapy--to learn HOW to parent her. Eventually DD went to therapy--it was NOT her choice--especially after the incident that landed her in jail (no formal charges were ever pressed). We went through several therapists until we finally found one who saw past DDs walls of lies and blame. DD improved so much with that therapist! In our situation DDs behavior was due to a hormone imballance (thyroid)... we are still struggling to keep her balanced medically--but she IS improving... and is no longer violent and RARELY verbally abusive... some days she is actually FUN to be around! If we would have reacted with 'tough love' then DD would have pulled away--we tried it and backed off (luckily) before it was too late. The 'tough love' actally FED her agression! Please look into therapy... Your son's actions are not uncommon given the family history (divorce/remarriage). He could possibly have abandonment issues and is pushing everyone he loves (or feels loves him) away in a twisted form or self-protection.... Keep loving him--and keep looking for help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmom Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 I know I need to change me. Now I have not labeled him from the start, I am the one who has stuck by him and by him no matter what. Trying everything to help him. Now I am the last one to finally state I am exhausted and no longer have an answer. His father, step father, and step mother were the first to stop and say no more. Now his father is willing to try again. I think it is because he finally figured out I cannot do this by myself anymore. I hate that I feel this way about my son now. It makes me feel like a horrible person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetobeme Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I know I need to change me. Now I have not labeled him from the start, I am the one who has stuck by him and by him no matter what. Trying everything to help him. Now I am the last one to finally state I am exhausted and no longer have an answer. His father, step father, and step mother were the first to stop and say no more. Now his father is willing to try again. I think it is because he finally figured out I cannot do this by myself anymore. I hate that I feel this way about my son now. It makes me feel like a horrible person. You haven't labeled him. I'm sorry you were accused of that. I hurt for you. I know what you're going through and am anxiously reading all of this to see if I can learn anything with my son. He had a double concussion in October and has had behavioral issues since then. Nothing is helping and so far, it's a tough job getting a therapist to call us back. I dealt with this before with youngest dd and it STINKS. Nobody calling back when we're trying to get help. BUT, I never thought of dh and I getting therapy and learning how to deal with him. I love that idea. I do think he needs it, too, but right now don't think he's going to be helpful in this process. Maybe his dad is what will get him in shape? But being torn away from his friends may trigger him? I don't know. :grouphug: I applaud you for all your efforts. We are only capable of doing our best, and I do understand shutting down because it's all too exhausting and overwhelming. It doesn't mean you're shutting down forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom4him Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 :iagree: There are simply some things that need extra help and this sounds like one of them. Better sooner than later. No professional is going to believe his lies. :iagree:I agree with this. I also know from experience that diet and enviroment(chemicals in the air) can make a BIG difference. If interested in any of that send me a pm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoKat Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 :iagree: Had a few students who were very difficult to teach due to their ADHD and behavior -- the family issues were similar to the OP in this thread. After a year of the Feingold Diet, the children were 180 degrees different! I was sold on that as an educator. :iagree: Feingold has made the biggest impact here too. Diet and medication were needed though. Without the diet medication would not be as effective. :grouphug: I read something recently about how mom's with special needs kids have been found to have post traumatic syndrome similiar to military personnel in battle field locations. It's a rough rough road. Find some help. Find some way to get down time. Is your child better around other folks? My kid has never ever behaved towards relatives the way she does towards us. Family has been more than happy to host her for a week or two of break. "She's such a joy to have around!" :001_huh: I haven't seen that side of her yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachrose Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Joanne don't beat yourself up! My gosh parenting is the hardest thing. Guilt just makes everything worse. We all need help now and then it doesn't mean we didnt' try our hardest or did all we knew to do. My husband and I were talking about this same subject on the way home from church sometimes you can be doing everything possible and it's still doesn't work. I think with parenting like marriage is you just keep plugging,always learning,figuring out what works for your family. Sometimes that's books,friends and sometimes therapy can make a huge difference. It did in our lives. I was the only one who went to therapy and though many things didn't change I did and that changed how I handled the things that didn't change which in turn slowly changed things LOL! ((((hugs))) parenting is super stinky sometimes don't be hard on yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 (edited) I have taken everything away. He no longer has the ipod, skateboard, toys, nothing and he really could care less. And this, right here, is the problem with punitive methods - (including the Millan dog training mentioned in several other threads today). If you're trying to change behaviour using punishment and force, and a low level of punishment or force doesn't work, what can you do? There's nothing else in this training toolbox except ramping UP punishment and force. :grouphug: OP - sounds like you're in a tough situation. I hope you find a solution soon which brings your dear boy back to you. Have you read Neufeld's Hold on to Your Kids? I wonder if something there would help you. ETA - I've heard Neufeld speak and he repeats often that the more obnoxious they are, they MORE they need your love and acceptance. It's easy to love them & have good times with them when they're 'nice'; it's when they're awful that they need us to unconditionally love them the most. Edited February 21, 2010 by hornblower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Inna* Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed2fosteradopt Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 You haven't labeled him. I'm sorry you were accused of that. I hurt for you. :iagree::iagree::grouphug::grouphug: I will be praying for you and your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 (edited) If his dad is a good dad, maybe letting him live with his dad would help. Maybe your son needs his bio father's influence. If he isn't a good dad, then not. I say this with the book Let Boys Be Boys by Meg Meeker on my mind. I'm not saying that it would be the "fix", but she might have insight about dealing with his issues. And, lots of :grouphug: !!!! Sounds like you are in a tough situation. Edited February 21, 2010 by ChrisB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 (edited) I'm so sorry you are going through this -- I went through it with my dd when she was 14 until she was 18 -- she is now 29. It was oppositional defiance disorder and a bunch of other stuff. I know how you feel b/c I can clearly recall feeling as if my heart was empty and I had nothing else to give......I felt so awful.....but the right therapist made a difference, and just as I was about to give up hope of ever finding one. I was so afraid for this child and what was going to happen to her b/c her behavior was so self-destructive and so filled with self-hate and anger. But I was determined that she was not going to trash her life. FWIW, sending her to live with her father and his wife did not do anything to help -- but that is different for everyone. It took alot of work, but she did turn her life around. Thoughts and prayers are with you -- be kind to yourself, please! Please let us know how this works out. :grouphug: Edited February 21, 2010 by MariannNOVA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie in NE Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I know I need to change me. Now I have not labeled him from the start, I am the one who has stuck by him and by him no matter what. Trying everything to help him. Now I am the last one to finally state I am exhausted and no longer have an answer. His father, step father, and step mother were the first to stop and say no more. Now his father is willing to try again. I think it is because he finally figured out I cannot do this by myself anymore. I hate that I feel this way about my son now. It makes me feel like a horrible person. :grouphug::grouphug: We all feel like total failures sometimes. You are doing your best. You are looking for answers. Be kind to yourself. :grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keptwoman Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I'm sorry :( We were there about 6 months ago with our 10yo. He was angry, cruel, depressed, speaking negatively etc. Finally I got desperate enough to get help, as I was worried what he would be like as a teen. The first thing the therapist did was deal with our parenting, then he started working with C. It took 6 weeks for total transformation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistyJ Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 My son is very, very similar. He has bipolar, and has been *relatively* stable since 4th grade, but he still has a lot of negativity and anger. God has given me the wisdom to react with love and patience (most of the time.) I slip, and react with negativity, about once a week. It is so draining. Please don't blame yourself, but have him evaluated. My son was in 2nd grade when a dr. said he needed to be on meds. I was very offended, and went through two more years of suffering and chaos before we accepted that as parents, we couldn't fix him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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