Poll about the plural of Octopus

[LizzyBee]

It was pronounced "off-fen" with a silent t.

 

Isn't it still? I don't think I've ever heard it pronounced with the /t/ sound included.

[rwjx2khsmj]

We read one book that included octopi as the plural. My children loved the mind picture of an "octo - pie" that the word created for them. They'll be disappointed to learn that octopuses is the more correct plural. Not nearly as laugh worthy.

[Lovedtodeath]

We read one book that included octopi as the plural. My children loved the mind picture of an "octo - pie" that the word created for them. They'll be disappointed to learn that octopuses is the more correct plural. Not nearly as laugh worthy.

 

Now that I have read the whole thread, I think that Octopi is my choice. I like the reasoning of lining the word up with the other scientific names even if it isn't really Latin.

[Spy Car]

Now that I have read the whole thread, I think that Octopi is my choice. I like the reasoning of lining the word up with the other scientific names even if it isn't really Latin.

 

Did you miss the posts that explain that using "octopi" as a plural is incorrect usage? :confused:

 

It's WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!! :D

 

Bill

[Georgia On My Mind]

:grouphug::grouphug:Great idea nMoria to search scientifc articles for word usage-you are a chief word nerd. I am stealing that one!;)

Edited January 23, 2010 by Georgia On My Mind

[Trixie]

Did you miss the posts that explain that using "octopi" as a plural is incorrect usage? :confused:

 

It's WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!! :D

 

Bill

 

I agree, especially in light of nmiora's earlier post about how few scientists appear to actually use "octopi." The vast majority (was it 90%?) use "octopuses."

 

And here is where I get my plug in again for descriptivism and prescriptivism not being mutually exclusive. ;) I can accept as a descriptive linguist that "octopi" occurs in the language--is even in fairly common usage--without accepting it as correct or condoning its use.

 

Come to the dark side, Bill. :001_tt2:

[EKS]

Fowler's "Modern English Usage" says octopi is WRONG [as you say it is Greek, not Latin], and "octopodes" is pedantic [but not incorrect]. He favors "octopuses."

 

 

This is what I thought.

[Spy Car]

I agree, especially in light of nmiora's earlier post about how few scientists appear to actually use "octopi." The vast majority (was it 90%?) use "octopuses."

 

And here is where I get my plug in again for descriptivism and prescriptivism not being mutually exclusive. ;) I can accept as a descriptive linguist that "octopi" occurs in the language--is even in fairly common usage--without accepting it as correct or condoning its use.

 

Come to the dark side, Bill. :001_tt2:

 

The "prescriptivist" in me is willing to "describe" the common usage of many as being dead-wrong at times (self included :tongue_smilie:).

 

Does that get us on the same team? :lol:

 

Bill

[Julie in MN]

Most dictionaries today are "descriptive", which is to say they report "usage" (even "incorrect" usage) rather than being "prescriptive" dictionaries which describe "correct" usage.

 

This is a problem because many people think that if it's "in the dictionary" it must be correct, when that's not the case. All it means is there are enough people using words "wrongly" that the usage is included in the dictionary.

 

It's my understanding that all dictionaries are "descriptive" -- that's what a dictionary is. The gigantic Oxford English Dictionary is simply a systematic search of quote after quote showing "usage," and those quotes are the "facts" that are used to make a decision on how to use a word and what the word means.

 

The spelling part may be a bit more complex, with some effort to standardize the wide range of spellings that occurred before English had a dictionary. But since a true dictionary of the English language didn't happen until fairly recently, it may have been too late to force truly systematic spellings onto the language.

 

I've never liked the dependence on usage, but no one ever asked me for my opinion :)

 

Julie

[Trixie]

Does that get us on the same team? :lol:

 

Bill

 

Near enough. :D

[kls126s]

Oh,:smilielol5: my goodness. I am laughing all the way through this thread. I just love homeschool moms (and dads...). Who else is going to have a discussion like this? Certainly none of the people I know irl.

[LizzyBee]

Did you miss the posts that explain that using "octopi" as a plural is incorrect usage? :confused:

 

It's WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!! :D

 

Bill

 

So Bill, how do you really feel? I don't think you've made yourself quite clear.

 

:D

[lionfamily1999]

It was pronounced "off-fen" with a silent t.

 

You seem to be saying that "often" used to be pronounced with a silent "t" and that the generally accepted pronunciation is now "off-ten," but maybe I'm misunderstanding you? Actually, the reverse is true. "Often" was originally pronounced "off-ten" (as it comes from OE "oft" and ME "ofte"); but the generally accepted pronunciation is now "off-en," with "off-ten" an increasingly common secondary (but--grudgingly--accepted ;)) pronunciation.

 

Isn't it still? I don't think I've ever heard it pronounced with the /t/ sound included.

 

 

We pronounce the "t." That was put into my head along with the first "r" in libRary :lol:

 

Obviously, though, this is just a matter of who is speaking. I will continue to give scathing glances to those that drop the first "r" in library, but I will allow the dropping of the "t" in often... as it doesn't seem clear if it should be pronounced or not.

 

Oh, and I prefer octopi, even if it's wrong. It sounds right (like pronouncing Wednesday - wends day)

[Renai]

We pronounce the "t."

 

We always have as well. I grew up thinking "offen" was an anomaly.

[Medieval Mom]

We always have as well. I grew up thinking "offen" was an anomaly.

 

Yes, but the REAL bugger is when people drop the lovely /hw/ sound in "wh" words and use a simple /w/. :D

 

In case anyone cares, my great-grandmother's very old dictionary gives all three plurals of octopus as acceptable, the order of usage being octopuses, octopodes, octopi. Octopuses being "English based", Octopi from "New Latin", and Octopodes from "The Greek".

 

Nowhere have I seen "octopus" as an acceptable plural form, however.

 

As for "often"-- Her lovely dictionary claims "The pronunciation of'ten is not uncommon among the educated in some sections, and is often used in singing."

 

Just don't forget to use "fishes" when referring several of a variety. ;)

 

All this to say, choose your favorite plural form, and say it clearly and confidently! :)

[KathyBC]

For geese it would be a flock, for fish a school. Is there a proper term for a group of octopus (or octopuses)?

[Lovedtodeath]

Just don't forget to use "fishes" when referring several of a variety. ;)

:001_huh: Okay, someone is going to have to explain this to me, though to be sure, I have heard the term fishes instead of fish. I just don't know when or why it is used.

[nmoira]

:001_huh: Okay, someone is going to have to explain this to me, though to be sure, I have heard the term fishes instead of fish. I just don't know when or why it is used.

 

From my trusty Shorter Oxford:

– NOTE: The normal pl. is fish, but the older form fishes is still used when referring to different kinds of fish (e.g. ‘freshwater fishes of the British Isles’).

[Rosie_0801]

Now I have to think of something to say other than "so unique." :glare:

I think it's perfectly ok to use "so" as an intensifier in this context. However, I make no claims to be an English language guru, so my permission doesn't mean much...

 

I think I liked myself better BEFORE The Hive, when I was delusional enough to think I was well-educated and spoke using proper grammar. Sigh.

I often think this. I could spell much better before encountering those nasty little red lines that show up uninvited below my typing. :(

 

Rosie

[hsm]

assuredly informed it was octopi. Spelling bees and all. :)

Now what really bugs me is when people use "they" instead of "he, she, "he/she", or even "he or she" when referring to a single antecedent just to avoid the gender issue (or perhaps out of ignorance).

[Rosie_0801]

I've had it suggested to me that the most efficient way to pluralise octopus is "octospice," which indicates it has been prepared and ready for cooking.

 

What a shame that isn't a word ;)

 

Rosie

[EKS]

For geese it would be a flock, for fish a school. Is there a proper term for a group of octopus (or octopuses)?

 

Don't we only have these terms for animals that naturally group together? I thought the octopus was a solitary animal.

[EthiopianFood]

I've had it suggested to me that the most efficient way to pluralise octopus is "octospice," which indicates it has been prepared and ready for cooking.

 

What a shame that isn't a word ;)

 

You should have said that that is the word used in Australia. What are the chances that another Australian is checking this thread? ;)

 

 

Don't we only have these terms for animals that naturally group together? I thought the octopus was a solitary animal.

 

I think this should be a spin-off thread. :D

[KathyBC]

Maybe that's why there isn't a commonly known term for a group of them, then. Makes sense.

[MamaSheep]

At the aquarium today the employees and signage all said "octopuses". FWIW.

[Jennefer@SSA]

Tonight I just had to check this thread b/c I couldn't figure out why it had gone on so long. My curiosity got the better of me and I am glad it did! I learned so much. :)

 

And what a hoot. It's true that you would be hard pressed to find a discussion like this anywhere else! ;)

[stripe]

Goodness. I will take note of this.

 

I would like to know if Mrs. Mungo prefers octopi or octopus's. ;)

 

Regarding --

Now what really bugs me is when people use "they" instead of "he, she, "he/she", or even "he or she" when referring to a single antecedent just to avoid the gender issue (or perhaps out of ignorance).

I totally agree. I prefer "it" when dealing with a singular entity, gender unknown. It's the best course. Especially when one is conversing with an androgynous octopus! ;) English is completely lacking in this regard. My children are at a complete loss as to what to do. They now are aggressively using the pronoun "they" more to indicate that the person is unknown than anything else -- usually it's completely obvious if the person is male or female.

 

By the way, I recently had a nurse misspell "hermaphrodite" (with an "f") while in a discussion with her (no, I am not one) and I must confess that my heart sank a little.

Edited January 27, 2010 by stripe

[nmoira]

 

Now what really bugs me is when people use "they" instead of "he, she, "he/she", or even "he or she" when referring to a single antecedent just to avoid the gender issue (or perhaps out of ignorance).

I have no problem with this and use it frequently. The history of this usage is longer than one might expect.

[FairProspects]

Apparently, this topic was debated enough for Merriam Webster to do a video about it. Check it out!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFyY2mK8pxk

[golfcartmama]

I am glad I learned something today! I thought that octopus was a word like moose that is the same plural/singular, but then again I don't remember the rules and we haven't gotten there yet, so there you go! :tongue_smilie:

[RenayofRohan]

I have read this whole thread and find it quite unique! ;)

 

Now contemplating whether to update my Facebook status with this fun information and boggle the brains of my friends. :tongue_smilie:

[nukeswife]

Oh my, it's been almost 6 months since I first posted this. :lol:

[mcconnellboys]

It was Octopi when I was growing up, but lots of these Latin endings are in flux now and I regularly see both of the other endings used, too.....