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Don't bite my head off, but is MCT just the next "flavor of the month"?


Karie
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Just wanted to step and let people who haven't already read about it a lot that there are steps to implementing the program, if you are planning to implement it. They are on the website in a download. You start with the grammar, once that is finished you start the grammar practice that will continue throughout the rest of the year. Then you begin adding in other books. There is a step process so you don't do all the books all the time nor do you need all the books right at once as far as purchasing. HTH. :)

 

:iagree:

I bought the grammar book (only) in my first order, because it was so hard for me to see if MCT would work for us from the samples on the website. We just finished Grammar Town, so now we'll start the other books.

Why the grammar book worked for us:

-We like to sit on the couch and read together and have discussions, and this book works great for this style

-Ummm...we weren't really doing grammar successfully with anything else. So if you take the 'just git er dun' stance...we did learn a lot of grammar!

-We don't like endless worksheets or getting info in tiny little increments

 

So, not the flavor of the month for us. But we haven't started the writing book yet, so we'll see.:001_smile:

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MCT hasn't been the current flavor of the month, but in all the recent posts it may seem that way. It seems to be about this time of year that the "grass is greener" affect kicks in.

 

I first read about MCT at the RFWP website, which I heard about from Rainbow Resource (where I purchased RFWP's Aesop's Fables language arts for 1st grade). When I first saw it mentioned on the old WTM boards, I looked at it again and thought it might be a good fit for my oldest. I went to a workshop two years ago that MCT was giving to school teachers, and was able to see all the materials laid out and I was blown away. It was like finding a perfectly comfortable shoe after trying on dozens of pairs. There is something about the program that just fits my oldest son and the way he learns.

 

It is not a good fit for every learner or every family! If you are happy with fill-in-the-blank worksheets for grammar, or if you need to have 20 math problems to feel like your child has learned something, this program is NOT going to work well for you. It is a completely different approach, with humor and insight at its core.

 

I have used the Island level with my oldest, spread out over 18 months because the Town level really takes it up a notch. I am glad we did this, he is very ready to tackle it now (we start in January).

 

If you are happy with traditional text formats, then by all means stick with it! :)

Edited by Colleen in SEVA
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I use MCT with my kids. We started with the Island level last year and are about halfway through the Town level. The kids love it. It goes quickly through a lot of information, they understand it and learn it without a lot of buys work. We tend to lay on the floor and take turns reading it to each other. I have used all the components with each level but only buy the student books not the teacher's manuals.

 

There is a yahoo group for MCT where people discuss and ask questions on implementation. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MCTLA/

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However, my kids have never mentioned the various fonts or the teacher's notes. They do comment positively on the colors and pictures though.

 

:iagree:...I was worried about it being too distracting with my ds, but he hasn't said a word. He did comment about liking the artwork. He is also a HUGE fan of the quirky stories.

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Yes, doing things E V E R Y D A Y does work, sometimes it doesn't. It can also be amazingly boring and kill some kids' desire to learn. I would rather have an in depth lesson that encourages my kids to think about language when we AREN'T doing a lesson, then do a lesson that is forgotten because it is not in a larger context. Language is a bit different than a set of facts...

 

just my opinion, now don't bite MY head off!:D

 

I thought that if I bought only the grammar that it wouldn't last long, but if I bought the whole level then each new book would reinforce the grammar and that using all of the books in succession would last the year. So... if I buy the entire Island level, how many lessons/how many school days are covered?

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I thought that if I bought only the grammar that it wouldn't last long, but if I bought the whole level then each new book would reinforce the grammar and that using all of the books in succession would last the year. So... if I buy the entire Island level, how many lessons/how many school days are covered?

 

I was referring to a post that said something along the lines of "daily repetition is the best way to learn/ remember/understand stuff".

 

The grammar book doesn't last very long (depending on you and your kid, level), then you work on the sentences in the practice book at your own pace and fold in the other books. Yes, it can last a year. It could take longer, it could take less time.... I school year round and don't really pay attention to things in this way. I am not a "lesson planner" in the classic sense, I just put a bookmark in the book and put it in my pile for tomorrow or not. I wish I could help more on this, but I just don't schedule anything, really. I have my yearly goals, like "singapore math 4B and 5A must be finished this year, all MCT town level, etc etc" and just do it. Then I write down what I did in my little schedule book after we've done it.

 

We had to stop for a while on all my MCT stuff (only doing math, reading, spelling/handwriting) while our life was a bit hectic and I just pulled the books back out, did a mini review and all the info was still there. They remembered all of it.

 

I am sure that someone else will be able to answer your question better. I am one of those odd balls who seems to things backwards from other people. I can't remember how many lessons/days I spent on island level.

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I school year round and don't really pay attention to things in this way. I am not a "lesson planner" in the classic sense, I just put a bookmark in the book and put it in my pile for tomorrow or not. I wish I could help more on this, but I just don't schedule anything, really. I have my yearly goals, like "singapore math 4B and 5A must be finished this year, all MCT town level, etc etc" and just do it. Then I write down what I did in my little schedule book after we've done it.

 

 

This is exactly how I homeschool as well.

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I think it depends. To me, because we aren't struggling with that particular subject and feel no need to switch, then MCT IS the flavor of the month. If I had a subject that we were thoroughly dissatisfied with and I saw some new thing that was taking the board by storm, I'd probably be very tempted, look into the curriculum further, and potentially purchase it with hopes that my dreams had come true. ;)

 

I did that a couple of years ago in utter dissatisfaction with what we were using for history/Bible. Now, though, there's nothing that would tempt me to switch, no "flavor of the month" that would lead me away from what we found for history/Bible. I feel that way as well about Singapore for early math and TT for higher level math. I'm completely untempted to switch!! :001_smile:

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I thought that if I bought only the grammar that it wouldn't last long, but if I bought the whole level then each new book would reinforce the grammar and that using all of the books in succession would last the year. So... if I buy the entire Island level, how many lessons/how many school days are covered?

 

Carmen,

I think each level of MCT could easily last a whole year, if you really spend time on things, especially as they build later in the year.

 

The problem is that kids of many ages and abilities may be using the Island level.

 

I have an 8th grader using several different levels. None are island level, but the CE-1 is the next level ("town") & there are 20 lessons in that book. For an average 36 week school year, that seems small. But they are full, rich lessons, so I wouldn't want to scrunch any of them into short weeks or sick days or so on. I think it's a realistic amount of material for an elementary school year. The first weeks may zip along, but all quizzes are cumulative. So quiz #10 may include items from lessons 1-10, or any of 50 words/roots. There's a lot of room for review, including games & such, before the later tests. There's a lot to practice, to play with, to build on. It looks like my 8th grader will finish this in half a year & do CE-II the second half of 8th grade, but of course he's older than the recommended age.

 

My 8th grader is in "secondary" level grammar. Magic Lens 1 is supposed to take about a month to go through the first half of the book, but it is taking us more like 4 months. He's new to MCT and hasn't had any formal grammar until last year, so we're "learning" more than someone who'd done earlier levels of MCT grammar (or lots of other grammar). But he's getting it. He's really good at grammar now!

 

I think one year per level is a good plan. You do have other subjects to get to, after all :) But as you see, each family is going to be different.

Julie

Edited by Julie in MN
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The amount of time spent on each level varies quite a bit depending on the child. I had an older student go through the lower levels extremely quickly in order to not miss any pieces in the later levels. We did 5 sentences a day in the earlier practice books, so that works out to finishing (a practice book anyway) in 20 days. We have slowed *way* down now that she is more or less on grade level. I hadn't intended to do it this way but I was using the books for a younger child anyhow and it was worth it to zip through them with my older child when we took her out of PS.

 

When you use the program you can see what I mean. The grammar island level book could be read by an adult in one sitting. You would probably spread it out over a much longer time with a younger child. The practice books are where the real application begins and you begin to see the lights turn on in your child's eyes.

 

ETA: Don't sell the earlier levels short. In both poetry and grammar, *I* learned things I did not know, on the Island level.

Edited by Dana in OR
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It is good to know I am not alone! :D

 

I do the same thing. I am hoping someone has a more thorough answer though. Thanks for trying!

 

Truthfully, I am in awe of all of you -- I WOULD love to be able to h/s without lesson plans -- if I were only h-s-ing DD10, I would be able to do it without written plans. But, :w00t: THOSE :w00t: TWINS :w00t:! My poor DD10 would be totally left alone to her own devices if I didn't have written plans as the twins would derail every inch of the way :svengo:.

 

That's all - I just wanted to say that I SO wish I could do that -- maybe when some maturity sets in with Hekyl and Jekyl, but right now :glare:, hmmmmm :toetap05:, not so much!

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For those that need a program to say do pages 1 & 2 day 1, page 3 day 2, etc., this may not be the program for you.

 

I really, really like a program that has that planned out for me. I don't always stick to it, but I really, really find it helpful for my brain when I'm in the middle of a busy day.

 

However, I am using & enjoying MCT anyways. I used some of the lesson plans in the yahoo group files last summer, and made my own plans, and adjusted them as I got used to the program. Now I have it down pretty well. I print out a schedule showing 3 weeks at a time, pencil in any changes, and that way I have exact goals for each day.

 

Just wanted to encourage those like me that it can be worth the extra work.

Julie

Edited by Julie in MN
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Not meaning to be offensive, but yes, there are people on this board who follow after the "flavor of the month." If they have the $ and time to do that, so be it.

Then there are those of us who have younger kids and are interested in learning about the different choices that are out there. I'm glad this thread (and others about various "new" [or new-to-me] programs) is here--I'm about 2 years away from needing to purchase 3rd grade materials, but with homeschooling and other daily life, I need that much time to figure out what I want to buy.

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Wow, getting a little snippy, eh? Of course it's flavor of the month, but the question is whether it's going to turn out to be a GOOD flavor, an enduring one. I haven't seen anyone commenting on the writing. We have yes votes so far for the grammar and vocab. Anybody like the writing? Anyone want to summarize his approach over the years and compare/contrast it to something like WTM?

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We just began the writing so I can't really say how it'll be for the long haul. But, so far so good. The Note to the Teacher in the back of the writing book resonated with me. In it he gives his philosophy of how to teach writing. I wonder if he has any of that information on the publisher site...I'll see if I can find it. Oh, we're using Essay Voyage.

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Wow, getting a little snippy, eh? Of course it's flavor of the month, but the question is whether it's going to turn out to be a GOOD flavor, an enduring one. I haven't seen anyone commenting on the writing. We have yes votes so far for the grammar and vocab. Anybody like the writing? Anyone want to summarize his approach over the years and compare/contrast it to something like WTM?

 

I want to hear about the writing too.:iagree:

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So what's his basic approach to essay writing? I saw a summary pdf of his writing approach on the RFW website. The stuff listed for paragraphs didn't seem as detailed as what we're doing in Paragraph Writing Made Easy. That is of course the potential rub, that you gain interest-factor and lose content. What is his angle, his approach? With WTM it's outlining and application of what you study. (read, narrate, outline, summarize, apply) With CW it's imitation and study to better imitate. With IEW it's analysis to make it easy for anyone to apply. But what is MCT's angle? Is he creating high-interest scenarios so they WANT to write? I guess that was my assumption. For instance when you move the thought process up a notch (more compare and contrast, etc.) but keep the assignment length age-appropriate, it keeps them engaged. So how does he approach this? Guess that's what I haven't nailed. And then I haven't seen how his coverage actually compares academically to something more standard. (only writing here)

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But what is MCT's angle? Is he creating high-interest scenarios so they WANT to write? I guess that was my assumption. For instance when you move the thought process up a notch (more compare and contrast, etc.) but keep the assignment length age-appropriate, it keeps them engaged. So how does he approach this? Guess that's what I haven't nailed. And then I haven't seen how his coverage actually compares academically to something more standard. (only writing here)

 

I wouldn't categorize MCT as "creating high interest scenarios" so kids want to write. His mantra, if he has one, is probably "correctness" -- correct words, correct sentences, correct paragraphs, and correct essays. The scenarios are used to draw a kid into a higher level of vocabulary, reading, and writing. Then they look around up there and see that it's all very understandable because it all makes sense. His level of vocabulary and all the rest is much higher than I've seen in any other program. I would have tossed it aside as uninteresting to my youngest son, if it weren't for MCT's skill at bringing kids up to his level. In one of the videos on his website, he says something about little kids understanding "tyrannosaurus rex" and our not giving them credit for being ready for other words like that. I'm guilty as charged.

 

I only have Essay Voyage and Academic Writing (although I'm thinking of going back to Paragraph Town), so those are at least upper elementary to early high school. In those, he always returns back to choosing the correct word ("very, very big" means you didn't know the correct word), the correct sentence (going over common grammar problems), and the correct paragraph topic (he may give you 3 paragraphs from a piece of literature, and then ask you which of several options is the next paragraph, i.e. the "correct" paragraph).

 

As far as essays, he really stresses the essay as having a point to make (no chronological summaries or book reports). He focuses on the three parts of an essay (intro, body, conclusion), and discusses the "most common" formats such as 5 paragraphs, but also discusses variety & using the correct amount for your topic. He brings up things my kid brings up -- why informal, creative authors still must have knowledge of correct form, for example. By high school he's huge on MLA style (including quotes and citations in essays); I didn't feel my 8th grade good writer was ready for that much formality so we keep going back a level.

 

One of the biggest differences for us is that he approaches things conversationally. It's the opposite of the workbook-and-forget method of learning grammar. It's also very far from the "write 500 words about your favorite place" type of writing. He's involved very closely in the details, but not details that stifle you (such as writing 5 paragraphs, 3 sentences each) but instead details that require you to justify your choices and stretch your abilities. He also has an obvious enjoyment of teaching kids at an advanced level (complete with occasional nerdy jokes my son enjoys spotting).

 

Well, since we've only just begun his writing component, I'll be quiet now & let the actual experts speak up. We actually just read the writing book & apply it to history summaries & such. But I just wanted to try to explain a "sense" of his approach. It always takes me a long time to say something <sigh>

Julie

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So what's his basic approach to essay writing? I saw a summary pdf of his writing approach on the RFW website. The stuff listed for paragraphs didn't seem as detailed as what we're doing in Paragraph Writing Made Easy. That is of course the potential rub, that you gain interest-factor and lose content. What is his angle, his approach? With WTM it's outlining and application of what you study. (read, narrate, outline, summarize, apply) With CW it's imitation and study to better imitate. With IEW it's analysis to make it easy for anyone to apply. But what is MCT's angle? Is he creating high-interest scenarios so they WANT to write? I guess that was my assumption. For instance when you move the thought process up a notch (more compare and contrast, etc.) but keep the assignment length age-appropriate, it keeps them engaged. So how does he approach this? Guess that's what I haven't nailed. And then I haven't seen how his coverage actually compares academically to something more standard. (only writing here)

 

 

From what I can tell by reading what he had to say in his various talks that you can download and read from RFWP, what he is focusing on is the fundamental importance of analytical academic writing. In one of his essays, he provides examples of the three types of papers that are acceptable in his classes, in descending order of worth, and the one type that is NOT acceptable. From what I saw there, I am totally sold. I teach writing in our local co-op, and I am finding that the students have all learned to write book reports, but have no idea how to analyze a text for an interesting idea to write about. MCT teaches that. This is a skill that I have myself, but have not had good success passing along to the students. For me, that kind of writing is very intuitive, and therefore hard to explain to others. He talks about the ideas behind everything, beginning with the grammar, and working outward to all the other elements in the program. Thus analyzing grammar is a stepping stone to analyzing a sentence, a paragraph, an essay, a novel. The "hook," IMO, is this teaching of real analytical thought. ETA: From all the stuff I have read, I agree with Julie about the correctness; EVERYTHING matters, and it matters that it be done right, all the time. I love this approach. :)

 

I plan to suck it up and buy both Island for my stb 4th grader and Voyage for my stb 7th graders for next year, and hang the cost. :)

Edited by Caitilin
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From what I can tell by reading what he had to say in his various talks that you can download and read from RFWP, what he is focusing on is the fundamental importance of analytical academic writing. In one of his essays, he provides examples of the three types of papers that are acceptable in his classes, in descending order of worth, and the one type that is NOT acceptable. From what I saw there, I am totally sold.
Are you planning to use MCT alone, or do you feel that it could use supplementing?
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Are you planning to use MCT alone, or do you feel that it could use supplementing?

 

No, I think that, with the classical authors reading regimen he recommends, it will be sufficient (and more!) on its own. I am SO excited to start this. I have been looking for years for the "perfect" curriculum for LA, and now I think I have finally found it. It's like being a new convert to a religion--you just wanna share it with EVERYBODY!!:D:tongue_smilie:

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No, I think that, with the classical authors reading regimen he recommends, it will be sufficient (and more!) on its own. I am SO excited to start this. I have been looking for years for the "perfect" curriculum for LA, and now I think I have finally found it. It's like being a new convert to a religion--you just wanna share it with EVERYBODY!!:D:tongue_smilie:
Oh boy, do we have to do the reading? I don't wanna!;)
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My 8th grader is in "secondary" level grammar. Magic Lens 1 is supposed to take about a month to go through the first half of the book, but it is taking us more like 4 months. He's new to MCT and hasn't had any formal grammar until last year, so we're "learning" more than someone who'd done earlier levels of MCT grammar (or lots of other grammar). But he's getting it. He's really good at grammar now!

 

Julie,

Did you find it difficult to jump in at the Magic Lens level? That's the level I was originally interested in for my DD. However, the friend whose material I looked over insisted that students need to start with the elementary series no matter how advanced they are. I'm not particularly interested in backtracking through material she already knows just to learn MCT's techniques.

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Julie,

Did you find it difficult to jump in at the Magic Lens level? That's the level I was originally interested in for my DD. However, the friend whose material I looked over insisted that students need to start with the elementary series no matter how advanced they are. I'm not particularly interested in backtracking through material she already knows just to learn MCT's techniques.

 

 

I'm not the person you directed the question to but I will jump in if you don't mind. My DS, 7th grade, and I began with ML. We had a year of Easy Grammar before finding MCT, before that DS was in public school - enough said. I cannot imagine having him start in the elementary level books. Magic Lens is written at his level, with ideas and sentences he can relate to.

 

MCT states that you should get through MG in three weeks, however, we are taking a little longer than that. If we find a topic that we just don't understand well we take a deeper look. We should finish ML in a semester. We are also working on WWW and 4practice as we go along. AAW is following along nicely. We are currently working through the first writing assignment.

 

As we progress I find that I may be going to slow for DS. Whenever we get to the 4practice sentences he whips through them, which tells me he has an understanding of the ML material.

 

HTH

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I haven't read any of the other posts, but yes it is just the herd mentality again. Someone said this is a new program, but I bought and used a few of the "land" (i.e., island, town, etc) books with my oldest, who was gifted, around 10 years ago. Maybe it's been edited or updated since then, but I don't think it's changed that much. We liked it, but didn't love it and I sold it. There were a group of us that used it, but none that I have stayed in touch with continued using it with younger children. I've found other things that we like more. Different strokes.... I don't take anything seriously until after the second year of it being enthusiastically reported here. I also take into account how long the poster has been homeschooling (not how old the child is that is being homeschooled) and how much hopping around they do. I tend to pay more attention when someone is cycling through a second or third child and finds something that really sparks their interest because I know they've tried other things for a particular age and find the particular item superior in some way.

Edited by love2read
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Julie,

Did you find it difficult to jump in at the Magic Lens level? That's the level I was originally interested in for my DD. However, the friend whose material I looked over insisted that students need to start with the elementary series no matter how advanced they are. I'm not particularly interested in backtracking through material she already knows just to learn MCT's techniques.

 

Just like The Dragon Academy, ML is going well with us. We're going slowly but there's plenty of info to absorb. My son spent 7th grade learning the basic parts of speech & this year he's really getting all of the intricate grammar details in MCT (we just finished clauses).

 

However, I balked at WWW. It's 25 stems per week in a small font. I went back 2 levels to CE-1 and we're really enjoying it, with 5 words or stems per lesson (which we do in 3-5 days) & cumulative quizzes.

 

The mixing of levels isn't really bothering me. There's lots of review/reinforcement of the same or similar words throughout.

 

Julie

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I find it fascinating that others are concerned about whether a particular resource is "the flavor of the month."

 

I, for one, am appreciative that people take the time to talk about resources they love. Many resources would not have come to my attention without this forum. Some of the resources catch my eye and some of them don't. I am more than willing to do a bit of research on my own because in the end it's my decision what materials we use.

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Things I used for my 1st, I may not have used with my 2nd or 3rd, but that is because their learning styles are so different, it wouldn't have been a good fit, not because I didn't like the program.

 

I agree. And would add that there are programs out there that I didn't know about when first beginning homeschooling or, like now, when I'm down to the last 2. So, while DS#1 used ABeka math through 4th grade, the others all began in Singapore and DS#1 moved into Singapore math after I learned about it on TWTM forums (waaayyy back in 1999). I researched it, bought a trial copy, tried it out on one son, and was sold on the product.

 

I'm always on the lookout for a new, better product. If I'm happy with a particular curriculum, I stick with it. If I'm just OK but not really enthusiastic about a product, I keep my ears open. I don't purchase just because it shows up here on the boards. I use the information from the boards to research further - that's why I homeschool - to find the best product for each individual son. This allows me to teach them efficiently and effectively and to their bent.

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From what I can tell by reading what he had to say in his various talks that you can download and read from RFWP, what he is focusing on is the fundamental importance of analytical academic writing. In one of his essays, he provides examples of the three types of papers that are acceptable in his classes, in descending order of worth, and the one type that is NOT acceptable. From what I saw there, I am totally sold. I teach writing in our local co-op, and I am finding that the students have all learned to write book reports, but have no idea how to analyze a text for an interesting idea to write about. MCT teaches that. This is a skill that I have myself, but have not had good success passing along to the students. For me, that kind of writing is very intuitive, and therefore hard to explain to others. He talks about the ideas behind everything, beginning with the grammar, and working outward to all the other elements in the program. Thus analyzing grammar is a stepping stone to analyzing a sentence, a paragraph, an essay, a novel. The "hook," IMO, is this teaching of real analytical thought. ETA: From all the stuff I have read, I agree with Julie about the correctness; EVERYTHING matters, and it matters that it be done right, all the time. I love this approach. :)

 

 

I just watched his videos and read his dowloads. I like what he has to say.

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I do have a question. Could someone explain what a curriculum for gifted kids is exactly? I mean how is a gifted curriculum different from curriculum for "normal" kids? :001_huh:

 

I'm trying to figure out why this was originally for gifted kids but now is used for non-gifted kids.

 

Is my dyslexic ds going to have a problem with it?

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I do have a question. Could someone explain what a curriculum for gifted kids is exactly? I mean how is a gifted curriculum different from curriculum for "normal" kids? :001_huh:

 

I'm trying to figure out why this was originally for gifted kids but now is used for non-gifted kids.

 

Is my dyslexic ds going to have a problem with it?

 

I'll be interested in hearing any answers you get. Maybe this would deserve it's own thread, even.

 

My own viewpoint would be that gifted = less review, faster pace, earlier age, & more advanced vocab. Geared for kids who are *interested* in academics and absorb them quickly and want more, but who are pained in the extreme when academics are repetitive and moving slowly and uninteresting.

 

Now this wouldn't encompass all situations. Some kids, like my youngest, pick things up easily (learned to read on his own), but don't really like academics. So he isn't necessarily one for whom gifted materials are designed. But gifted materials might help with some of his traits such as his knack for filling in blanks & not really paying attention -- you can't do that so easily with MCT.

 

I think the same curriculum can be used by all kinds of kids, but maybe at a different pace etc. For example, Singapore Math seems to work with all kinds of kids.

 

Julie

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