How important is your ethnicity to you?

[*anj*]

I've been following the ethnicity threads with interest. I really don't identify with that line of thinking at all, and it makes me wonder if I'm just odd or is it that important to people?

I guess I'm especially thinking of the people who say they're 1/8 or less of some nationality. Does it have any bearing on who you are? I've likewise been kind of confused about shirts that say "XYZ and Proud." I usually reserve pride for something that I've accomplished or contributed to. Your ethnic background is merely genetic makeup for which you can take no credit. It's not as if you chose well when you decided to be (fill in the blank.)

 

I'm honestly not meaning to be snarky. Truly. It's just one of those things that I've pondered off and on and it comes to mind on a day like St. Patrick's Day so I thought I could get some good input here.

[Whisperlily]

I'm very proud of my American heritage. My husband is a soldier. I may not agree with the political scene all the time, but I do love my country. THIS is my "motherland" or "fatherland" mostly it is my home country.

 

I have descendants from different places, but I'm as full-blooded American as any full-blooded Irish is Irish, or English is English. There had to be a melding of bloodlines to form each "cultural heritage."

 

Perhaps if I still had relatives that I knew living in other countries I'd feel more of a blood-tie to them, but I don't.

[Kris]

We're just mutts -- I guess I don't think about it that much. :-)

[Karenciavo]

I really don't care about it. Now my husband's father is from Esperia, in the province of Frosinone about 1.5 hours south of Roma and he is very proud of his heritage.

[GothicGyrl]

I am proud of my Italian heritage. I've got a good mix backround on that side (peasant/minor royalty/mafian)... my Cuban side I don't know much about except that they are true Cuban American's (most generations go back to the birth of Tampa, when it was nothing but Cuban ancestry).

 

But I am very much in to my Italian side. Do I "DO" St. Patty's day? Nah.. it's just another fun day to me. But I do have ancestors all over Europe, so it would be cool to wrap that up.

 

And yes, I am proud of the mafian part. I just don't know how much of it is. Never delved in to it.

 

Oh I did want to say that I am very curious about DH's ancestry--he is German and Bohemian. And the Bohemian intrigues me.

[Michelle T]

My ethnicity as a Jew, very important, a defining characteristic of who I am. My ancestry from Germany, Poland, Austria..... not particularly important to me. I consider myself American.

 

DH, on the other hand, is very proud of his 1/2 Irish background, particularly today. It's funny, because his mom, who came here from Ireland when she was a teenager, doesn't seem to care so much about Ireland, but you'd think DH had been born and bred there!

Michelle T

[Mrs Mungo]

My grandmother was chief of our tribe and went before the Supreme Court to ensure the US government had to meet its obligations to her tribe. So, it is important to me even though I'm not fully Native American.

[Scarlett]

I usually reserve pride for something that I've accomplished or contributed to. Your ethnic background is merely genetic makeup for which you can take no credit. It's not as if you chose well when you decided to be (fill in the blank.).

 

Tee hee. This reminds me of a commercial that Cybil Shepard did for...'I'm worth it' brand. L'oreal? Anyway, she is spinning in that big chair and she says, 'SOME people say I'm attractive. I say I Agree! Afterall, I had nothing to do with it, my mother and father are responsible for that.' I love that commercial.

 

I'm honestly not meaning to be snarky. Truly. It's just one of those things that I've pondered off and on

 

I'm with you. My mom is into geneology and sometimes she comes across something that interests us, in a 'well, I'll be!' sort of way, but it has no bearing on how I feel about myself--good or bad. I think my maternal grandmother was half Cherokee. That is about all I know.

[Antonia]

I think I just identify more with certain parts of my heritage than others; they are more a part of my personality... my famous temper, for instance, and my uncanny ability to hold my liquor are from my Irish grandfather (according to my mom). :D My love of Italy came from spending lots of time with my right-off-the-boat great-grandma.

 

I consider myself to be first and foremost an American, though. I love this country so much and feel so strongly that it is home, that I actually get homesick when we take a daytrip into Canada.

[Joanne]

It has a lot of meaning to me. My mom was first generation Norwegian, her parents having migrated here individually, landed in a Norwegian neighborhood in NYC, met and married.

 

I feel Norwegian with every fiber of my being. I observed and learned the Norwegian approach to life. "Stoic" doesn't begin to describe me. Relatedly, I've had people ask me if I'm from Minnasota, even though I have never visisted there, and certainly do not have the accent. I just feel very, very connected.

[j.griff]

I'm just plain white, and it doesn't matter to me. I might feel differently if I were of a different heritage. I agree though, about the pride thing. It's not something a person has accomplished, I'm not "proud" to be an American- it just happens to be the place I was born. <shrug>. My husband is in the Navy, and I'm not "proud" of that either. He chose to join the Navy to support his family- that's commendable, honorable, etc. but it's not something that "I" chose for us, kwim?

[elegantlion]

My heritage as an American is important to me. Most of my ancestors have been here since before America was a country, from the Mayflower on.

 

However, most of them hailed from the British Isles, including Ireland. I recently discovered my ancestors and my dh's ancestors were in the same county in Ireland at the same time.

 

My dh's heritage is Irish, German, & Dutch. His name is very Irish and we consider today a major holiday, although we gave up on green beer a long time ago. :D

[Tracey in TX]

I believe we're a part of our past and the present. The sacrifices and lives our ancestors led impacts who we are and why we live in our respective countries.

Both DH & I served in USAF and are staunchly American. But we're also citizens of the world. In order to have any hopes of peace (someday) we need to at least understand other people's cultures and try to work with--or around--those cultures to thrive in a global environment. We can't alienate ourselves any longer.

I'm proud to be of European descendant and raise our children with the appreciation. I don't wave the EU flag/s, though.

[5kidsforME]

really just proud to be an American. I was brought up to be proud of being Irish as well. I like to say I am Irish. Ultimately it has no bearing on who I am as a person. I guess it is interesting to me to know where some of my ancestors come from and what they went through to become Americans.

[Jenny in Atl]

For me, I'm not so sure it's pride, but more a case of loving history, being fascinated about where I come from, where my family has traveled. I actually am just as interested in where others come forasmuch as my own "ethnic" roots. I wish I could hear the stories of those who have come before us. For most of my life I have felt tribe-less, without a culture, and I guess I still do.

[melissel]

I've been following the ethnicity threads with interest. I really don't identify with that line of thinking at all, and it makes me wonder if I'm just odd or is it that important to people?

I guess I'm especially thinking of the people who say they're 1/8 or less of some nationality. Does it have any bearing on who you are? I've likewise been kind of confused about shirts that say "XYZ and Proud." I usually reserve pride for something that I've accomplished or contributed to. Your ethnic background is merely genetic makeup for which you can take no credit. It's not as if you chose well when you decided to be (fill in the blank.)

 

I'm honestly not meaning to be snarky. Truly. It's just one of those things that I've pondered off and on and it comes to mind on a day like St. Patrick's Day so I thought I could get some good input here.

 

Anj, I've always felt the same way. I'm happy to be an American, and I love this country, but I wouldn't say I was proud of it. I had very little to do with becoming an American--it was an accident of birth! I'm supremely grateful that I was born here, though. My heritage is more Italian than anything else, but again, I'm not "Italian and Proud" or anything. I think it's fascinating, and I enjoy studying the culture (and eating the food *slurp*), but not really more so than any other culture.

 

Now, my DH is very proud of his Puerto Rican and Dominican heritage, and he and I have often had this debate. I ask him why he's proud of his heritage, considering that he's lived here his whole life and has only been to visit both PR twice and DR once, when he was a child. He says he just is--that it makes him who he is. I say that his strong, amazing mom and the New York City culture are what made him who he is, but he disagrees. The same way he strongly disagrees with the majority of the practices and thinking that make the Catholic religion different from many other Christian religions, yet he still identifies himself as a strong, proud Catholic :confused:

 

I don't know the answer, but I've always felt the same way you do. I'll be following this thread with interest!

[Lorna in the boonies]

I'm about as mutt-y as they come, and it doesn't matter a bit to me.:001_smile:

[GothicGyrl]

I consider myself to be first and foremost an American, though. I love this country so much and feel so strongly that it is home, that I actually get homesick when we take a daytrip into Canada.

 

I'll probably get yet another ding for saying this but..

 

I don't consider myself American. I don't have pride in this country (but before I get ripped, I do have pride in the military--the two are not mutally exclusive--due to nearly every family member being in the military), I've never felt like I "belong" here. Ever. And my mom used to think that so funny because only my grandmother's parents (and probably somewhere way down the line on dad's side) came over on the boat. From my maternal grandmother on down--everyone was born here.

 

I've just never felt like I belong in this country, but it is hard for me to articulate. I don't feel American, I don't believe American, and I certainly do not have faith in this country any more. Now if you are going to neg. rep me for that, have the courage to sign your name. Otherwise, well--nevermind.

 

What I am saying fits in with the thread. And I'll answer it before it is said--if I could leave, I would. In a hot minute.

[PrairieAir]

I don't care much about it. I'm an American above all else. It is interesting to learn about my ancestors and where they came from, though.

 

We've had a lot of fun attending the Scottish festivals and ds' Highland dance events. Since we couldn't find an affordable kilt in the Ferguson tartan, we picked McLeod which is somewhere in our family line also. Dd's Westie is named Hamish Fergus Madadh with the Fergus as a nod to my mom's family.

 

Dh is 1/4 Italian and his mom's family is very in touch with their roots. Dh probably cares less about that sort of thing than I do, though.

 

Dh and I both have some German ancestry. I took German in high school because it was the only foreign language offered, but I enjoyed it more knowing that I had some tie to it. Dh's grandmother still makes peppernuts every year for Christmas, though she does not identify it as being a German thing and didn't know the word pfefferneuse until I told her.

 

My family, and possible dh's, also has some Irish heritage. St. Patrick's Day is a fun day to celebrate that.

 

I don't think we have any particular pride in our where our ancestors came from, just an interest. I have the same interest in learning about other countries and cultures. I just find that sort of thing fascinating.

[Mekanamom]

Well, as I said in the other thread, I don't have much faith in genealogical records (birth certificates, etc.). ;)

 

But I think actual genetic history is very interesting! Yeah, I'd love to know my ethnicity, but I doubt it would make me feel any differently... just curious.

 

Edited to add more info: My curiosity is really focused on the biological genetic information. Of course there is a difference between "race" and "culture". I shouldn't have used the term "ethnicity" above, as that term (generally) incorporates both factors (among others).

 

I think a lot of people could benefit from having a little more genetic information.

[Tammy]

and then....I bet you would come back and have a better attitude!

[*anj*]

 

What I am saying fits in with the thread. And I'll answer it before it is said--if I could leave, I would. In a hot minute.

 

Okay, now I'm hijacking my own thread, but...

Where would you prefer to live? That is not being voiced in an antagonistic way at all, it doesn't matter to me, I am not threatened by the fact that you'd rather live elsewhere...I'm just curious...you know like if you were sitting across the table from me and you said something provocative like that I'd say "Really? Where would you go?"

[Whisperlily]

I believe we're a part of our past and the present. The sacrifices and lives our ancestors led impacts who we are and why we live in our respective countries.

Both DH & I served in USAF and are staunchly American. But we're also citizens of the world. In order to have any hopes of peace (someday) we need to at least understand other people's cultures and try to work with--or around--those cultures to thrive in a global environment. We can't alienate ourselves any longer.

I'm proud to be of European descendant and raise our children with the appreciation. I don't wave the EU flag/s, though.

 

I really agree with this. Although I am proud to be an American, I am not the kind of person to think that our country is somehow superior and others don't matter. In fact, I think one of the things I mean about being "proud" isn't really "pride" as much as a vested interest. I CARE about how our country is run. I CARE about how "we" act in the global environment. I am saddened when "my country" makes choices that I disagree with. The world is a wide and rich place, and I feel that it is very important to understand that our culture isn't the only one. Our ways are not always the "right" ways, just "our" ways.

 

Sorry for the ramble... just needed to get that out. ;)

[5kidsforME]

I'll probably get yet another ding for saying this but..

 

I don't consider myself American. I don't have pride in this country (but before I get ripped, I do have pride in the military--the two are not mutally exclusive--due to nearly every family member being in the military), I've never felt like I "belong" here. Ever. And my mom used to think that so funny because only my grandmother's parents (and probably somewhere way down the line on dad's side) came over on the boat. From my maternal grandmother on down--everyone was born here.

 

I've just never felt like I belong in this country, but it is hard for me to articulate. I don't feel American, I don't believe American, and I certainly do not have faith in this country any more. Now if you are going to neg. rep me for that, have the courage to sign your name. Otherwise, well--nevermind.

 

What I am saying fits in with the thread. And I'll answer it before it is said--if I could leave, I would. In a hot minute.

 

 

Where would you rather live? And also have you ever lived somewhere else to make you feel this way about not wanting to live here? (Hope that made sense.)

[j.griff]

Well, I may get flamed also, LOL- ITA with GG on this. I'd personally rather live in Australia or New Zealand.

[Antonia]

I've never felt like I "belong" here. Ever. And my mom used to think that so funny because only my grandmother's parents (and probably somewhere way down the line on dad's side) came over on the boat. From my maternal grandmother on down--everyone was born here.

 

 

 

My aunt identifies so strongly with our Italian heritage, she actually began weeping on a flight to Italy when the pilot informed the passengers that they were over Italian airspace. My uncle had to physically put her on the plane home; she was refusing to leave her "homeland".

 

I love the idea of this country, and the geography of the county itself, the physical beauty. Do I love our government and the road we are on? NO.

[Scarlett]

Well, I may get flamed also, LOL- ITA with GG on this. I'd personally rather live in Australia or New Zealand.

 

Why? And same as Anj, this is asked with totally no antagonism, because I am not political and I don't care. I just wonder what you would have in those two countries that you don't have here. Is there less crime? Smog? I'm being very serious here....If someone asked me where in the entire world I wanted to live, I would just have no idea...I know so little about the rest of the world and mostly I just want to be near my loved ones. So I'm curious.

[j.griff]

Those places just call me, :D I don't know if I could explain it or not. It just "feels" right to me. I've not been able to even visit yet though, LOL- those are my top two destinations for travel though. Some day. I've told my dh that I want to move to Australia when he's retired and we can afford it. My oldest wants to live in Ireland some day.

[Sarah CB]

I don't find it important at all. It's so far back that no one remembers. I'm Canadian and that has a lot more meaning to me than my ethnic background.

[Tammy]

and you have NEVER been there, LOL! Sometimes places aren't always how they 'seem' LOL!

 

I lived in the Bahamas for 3 years....thinking I am going to 'paradise'.....well....I couldn't wait to leave, LOL!

[GothicGyrl]

You should live in another country.....so you can compare....

and then....I bet you would come back and have a better attitude!

 

That's a huge assumption Tammy and one I know I can say "Doubtful" to. I'm sorry you don't understand why I feel this way, but that's it--I feel this way.

 

Where would you prefer to live? That is not being voiced in an antagonistic way at all, it doesn't matter to me, I am not threatened by the fact that you'd rather live elsewhere...I'm just curious...you know like if you were sitting across the table from me and you said something provocative like that I'd say "Really? Where would you go?"

 

Anj and Scarlett and to whomever else asks: It would be anywhere BUT here. Emotion wise, like J.griff, I identify with Australia/New Zealand. Heritage wise, I identify with the Italian side of me. But I also identfy heavily with the British (the welsh side of my family does have some lineage there).

 

As for the "why" for those countries--it really is hard to say. This truly isn't a "grass is greener" situation because there is no perfect country. But there is something about them that makes me identify heavily with them, more so than here. I really cannot put my finger on it, but given the opportunity and finances, you better believe I'd go to one of them. I've also toyed with the idea of Canada.

 

I love the idea of this country, and the geography of the county itself, the physical beauty. Do I love our government and the road we are on? NO.

 

And there are so many countries that are more beautiful, have richer history and better geography, than here. Like I said, this is just how I feel--detached, like I do not belong here. I do cry at the sight of other places because while America has some unspoiled beauty, the majority of it is very spoiled.

 

I used to tease that if the Amish allowed technology(which I know some sects do), I'd be one. Because it is simple. Because it is true beauty, simplified. Unspoiled. I think that's what draws me elsewhere.

[Crissy]

My heritage is incredibly interesting to me. I have had quite a time just recently discovering things about my great-grandfather's family that I'd never know.

I must say, though, that I would probably feel the same level of interest even if I'd not been related to the man. The details of one's life from so many years ago is fascinating to me.

 

All that to say, while I find it interesting, I don't feel an importance in being Irish or German (although, it probably explains all the alcohol ). I feel much more Pacific Northwestern.

[GothicGyrl]

and you have NEVER been there, LOL! Sometimes places aren't always how they 'seem' LOL!

 

I lived in the Bahamas for 3 years....thinking I am going to 'paradise'.....well....I couldn't wait to leave, LOL!

I really wish you'd stop judging those of us who feel differently than you do. It's bordering on offensive. One does NOT have to have lived there to "just know". I have extensively researched these places, ALL facets of these places and I KNOW what I am speaking about, getting in to and looking forward to. I really wish you'd stop with the assumption that we don't know what we speak of, just because we've never been.

[j.griff]

I know that places may not be what they "seem", :D It's really hard for people who don't feel the same way, to understand someone else's feelings on the subject.

[j.griff]

That's a huge assumption Tammy and one I know I can say "Doubtful" to. I'm sorry you don't understand why I feel this way, but that's it--I feel this way.

 

 

 

Anj and Scarlett and to whomever else asks: It would be anywhere BUT here. Emotion wise, like J.griff, I identify with Australia/New Zealand. Heritage wise, I identify with the Italian side of me. But I also identfy heavily with the British (the welsh side of my family does have some lineage there).

 

As for the "why" for those countries--it really is hard to say. This truly isn't a "grass is greener" situation because there is no perfect country. But there is something about them that makes me identify heavily with them, more so than here. I really cannot put my finger on it, but given the opportunity and finances, you better believe I'd go to one of them. I've also toyed with the idea of Canada.

 

 

 

And there are so many countries that are more beautiful, have richer history and better geography, than here. Like I said, this is just how I feel--detached, like I do not belong here. I do cry at the sight of other places because while America has some unspoiled beauty, the majority of it is very spoiled.

 

I used to tease that if the Amish allowed technology(which I know some sects do), I'd be one. Because it is simple. Because it is true beauty, simplified. Unspoiled. I think that's what draws me elsewhere.

 

 

That pretty much sums it up for me too. (except for the Italian heritage part :D ). And this isn't something *I* am interested in "debating". My feelings are my own, period. I don't need to "justify" them or "prove" the validity of them to anyone. My feelings are valid because they are *my* *feelings*. :)

[Jenny in Atl]

Twice as hard when you come from a whole family who feels this way (not attached to any one place)... both sides! :willy_nilly:

[astrid]

If it's the way she feels, she's entitled to that. It's not YOUR attitude, but it's certainly valid.

 

And honestly, the more I read about our country endorsing torture, the less proud of my citizenship I become.

[Jill- OK]

I've always perked up when I've heard interesting stories about my forebears, I like much of the music that's attached to some of my ethnicity, at least one of my kids is interested in learning some of the language...

 

But I feel Oklahoman, more than anything.

 

Southwesterner, if you want to be less specific.

 

This is where I feel the tie, this is what I feel 'fits' me. The people, the idea, the way of life...all of it.

 

I've lived in some beautiful places (Oklahoma is not that physically beautiful, lol), and I've always been rarin' to go, when we've moved somewhere new, but...this is my home. This is where we planned to come back to, all along, and now that we're here...I can sigh with relief. ::Sigh::

 

:001_smile:

[j.griff]

:ohmy:Wow, what hostility. What is the "attitude" that needs to become "better"?

:blink: :thumbdown:

[GothicGyrl]

If it's the way she feels' date=' she's entitled to that. It's not YOUR attitude, but it's certainly valid.

 

And honestly, the more I read about our country endorsing torture, the less proud of my citizenship I become.[/quote']

 

 

Nevermind, I figured it out. :)

[j.griff]

GG, I believe she was asking tammy what is wrong with your attitude, :D

[GothicGyrl]

GG, I believe she was asking tammy what is wrong with your attitude, :D

 

 

Yeah, I figured it out. :D

[RebeccaC]

Well I am proud to be an American mutt :D

 

However I have two family stories that might be interesting. First when my Norwegian grandfather came over he wanted and American name sooooo he stood outside a theater and shook hands with the first man out and asked his name which was a Scottish name and that was the name he went by for the rest of his life. He did not teach my dad Norwegian or fellowship with Norwegians. When he was 90 he told my dad this is my real name and where I was from and this was the names of my mother, father, sisters and brother. When he came to America he came to be an American and cut all ties with his family. We found out that there still was family on the family farm in Norway and that his sisters had all come to America and one lived 45 minutes south and west of my grandfather and died wondering what had happened to him. I will forever be grateful that he did this because his surname was Hogastande and going through public school was bad enough and just the idea of doing it with that last name makes me shutter. The sad part was he was the last male with that last name so it is gone.

 

The story is from my mother's side of the family has to do with when they were taking names for the Indian rolls in OK. Both great great grandparents were half breeds as were my great grandparents but the great great declined to be put on the rolls due to their Christian beliefs. Their feelings were if we are going to be Christian then we will live like the Christian majority. They had siblings who joined the rolls but they did not. I don't know if that was a good idea or not but it was their choice and they did better in life than the siblings who joined the rolls.

[Scarlett]

However I have two family stories that might be interesting. First when my Norwegian grandfather He did not teach my dad Norwegian or fellowship with Norwegians. When he was 90 he told my dad this is my real name and where I was from and this was the names of my mother, father, sisters and brother. When he came to America he came to be an American and cut all ties with his family. We found out that there still was family on the family farm in Norway and that his sisters had all come to America and one lived 45 minutes south and west of my grandfather and died wondering what had happened to him.

 

How interesting! What a mystery though. Did you ever find out WHY he cut all ties with his family?

[Tammy]

Well....I think having a bad attitude about your country (when you are living there) isn't such a great thing...I never said she couldn't feel the way she wants.....sorry you took offense....

[Scarlett]

But I feel Oklahoman, more than anything.

 

 

I've lived in some beautiful places (Oklahoma is not that physically beautiful, lol), and I've always been rarin' to go, when we've moved somewhere new, but...this is my home. This is where we planned to come back to, all along, and now that we're here...I can sigh with relief. ::Sigh::

 

:001_smile:

 

This is how I feel about my home. Thankfully, the part of Arkansas I live in is very beautiful. I imagine though, even if I lived on the flat prairies of OK, I'd love it if that is where I was raised and where my family lived.

[j.griff]

How is not agreeing with your govt., not liking the goegraphical location in which you happen to live (due to where you were born, where your job/dh's job is, etc.) mean you have a bad attitude? I don't understand.

[astrid]

who arrived in this country from another had a bad attitude about their country; that's part of why they came here.

 

I think it's those of us who are not satisfied with the status quo, who disagree and engage in discourse and work to change things are true patriots. Isn't that what this country was founded on? Not just blind faith in leadership with which the majority disagreed?

 

Wow.....now let's watch my negative rep points come flyin' in! ;)

[Mrs Mungo]

I really wish you'd stop judging those of us who feel differently than you do. It's bordering on offensive. One does NOT have to have lived there to "just know". I have extensively researched these places, ALL facets of these places and I KNOW what I am speaking about, getting in to and looking forward to. I really wish you'd stop with the assumption that we don't know what we speak of, just because we've never been.

 

I'll preface this by saying that there is no judgment in what I say. However, I *do* think you are unfairly judging *this* country if you haven't lived in any others. I lived in Germany and traveled Europe long enough to see good and bad. Yes, Germany has socialized medicine and great roads. They pay moms to stay at home, subsidize the trains, force people to recycle and many other things but those *all* come with drawbacks, especially the fact they pay a *huge* portion of their wages in taxes. When we lived there the gas tax was *enormous* and gas was over $6 a gallon and that was 6 years ago. They pay taxes on everything, even their furniture. There is still plenty of poverty and moms who have baby after baby to take advantage of the kindergeld system (*many* of them where we lived starting at 15 or 16 and dropping out of school). They don't have great laws restricting companies. There was a tire company in the town we lived in (not really even near us) and everything we owned was constantly covered in a black film. Living *anywhere* has good and bad points. It's not an assumption to think you don't *really* know if you haven't lived anywhere else, it's a fact. If you want to live elsewhere, that's fine by me. I've loved our experiences of living all over the US and in Europe. You won't hear me telling you not to do it. However, I will agree with Tammy that you can't understand what it means to live in another country unless you've done it.

[RebeccaC]

How interesting! What a mystery though. Did you ever find out WHY he cut all ties with his family?

 

His story was he wanted to become and American. His sisters kids tho told us after he passed that his mother was very controlling and after his dad died he wanted his own life so he ran off. He was a minor when he did this and did not want to be sent back to his mother so he changed his name and had nothing to do with anyone Norwegian.