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Any experience doing Physics in 9th grade?


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Any experience doing Physics in 9th grade? One of the local public schools here does Conceptual Physics in 9th grade. The ps teacher seems to have the same logic as Beginnings Publishing, thinking that it makes more sense to do Physics first (although Beginnings does that in jr. hi only). And this ps teacher says it helps with testing more than the other sciences.

 

This school is one of the more advanced public schools around here, but they are still using this even with non-AP students. I double-checked and they are using the 10-12th grade book by Hewitt, not the 9th grade one.

 

My reasoning is that ds liked physics more than chemistry or biology, but not sure that's enough to consider attacking high school physics in 9th grade. He's doing well in Algebra this year, but he's a youngest child who is not really into challenging himself.

 

Anyone else BTDT?

Julie

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I am not familiar with Hewitt's courses, but if they are using the books in 9th grade, I would imagine that they are very limited in math application and based on alg 1 concepts since most 9th graders have not had alg 2 or cal yet.

 

I have a ds taking Kinetic's Conceptual Physics this yr as an 8th grader. It does have higher level math associated with it (they use sin/cos/tan in the very first lesson.) He is a very strong math student and the math is not a problem. He absolutely loves physics! I am glad he is doing it this yr b/c it definitely feeds into his strongest areas.

 

As long as your ds's math skills are on par with the course, there shouldn't be any problems.

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I'm teaching Hewitt's Conceptual Physics for the 2nd time in our co-op. We have had a couple of 8th graders who were math advanced do very well in the class. The math is mainly algebra based - they need to know how to manipulate a simple equation to find an unknown. There is a little geometry but it is explained in the text.

 

I don't know of a Hewitt text for 10-12th grades. He does have some college level texts which are for non-science majors. I compared both the high school version with the 9th edition (college level) and found that they covered the same material. The high school text was more engaging for a younger crowd with more graphics. The college level book was a little more sparse in the explanations although many passages were exactly the same in both books.

 

I'm a believer in the physics, chemistry, biology sequence. I would definitely recommend the program for 9th (or for an advanced 8th grader).

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Wow, I'm impressed that all your kids have done Physics first. And it sounds like they all did fine with it?

 

Hewitt apparently has 3 levels of the same text, according to his website, so that's what I'm looking at as far as 9th vs. 10-12th vs. college:

http://www.conceptualphysics.com/pghewitt.shtml

 

I'm not clear about how much the 3 books differ, just like I'm not clear about how much Apologia's Physical Science differs from their Physics book.

 

The Apologia site does say some trig is needed for Physics, http://www.apologia.com/store/

 

I'm not sure my 9th grader will be ready to do any trig, so I'm wondering if the Hewitt also expects math beyond Algebra I.

 

I'm assuming since the course is based on a college level course that it's as advanced as Apologia. So how was the math in Hewitt?

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Apologia physics and conceptual physics are different. Apologia is putting more complex math with physics while CP is focusing on teaching concepts with a minimal amount of math. It is advantageous to be solid on concepts before adding higher math to them. I plan to have my sons do a trig based physics after chemistry and biology

 

Apologia physics isn't comparable to their physical science. The college level CP is geared to non-majors and doesn't appear to require any more math than the high school version

 

Hewitts text is algebra based Some of my students are doing algebra concurrently with CP

 

CP should probably be considered more of an introduction to physics. It isn't the onerous course most people think of when they hear the word physics. It isn't an advanced course by any means and would not be considered AP level. It is a very appropriate first high school level science course.

Edited by CynthiaOK
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I'm not sure my 9th grader will be ready to do any trig, so I'm wondering if the Hewitt also expects math beyond Algebra I.

 

 

The trig needed for Apologia's Physics is simply being able to use the sin/cos/tan buttons (and their inverses) on your calculator. They are only used within the context of right triangles as breaking down vectors into their components.

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the high school version of Conceptual Physics recommended by Cynthia (thanks Cynthia), and he absolutely loves, loves, loves it! All I can say is what a great book. I wish I had used it with my older son instead of beginning with the trig-based Physics. Hewitt does a wonderful job of developing understanding of the concepts using many, many relevant examples (and a bit of humor).

 

As others have mentioned, the high school version has a lot of cute graphics, and the math is just basic "plug & chug" equations, things like F = m * a. My son finished Algebra 1 last year, and he is having no trouble at all with the math. We are also enjoying the experiment manual. We are having to pick and choose which ones we can do based on the equipment we have on hand, but my son has really enjoyed the experiments too.

 

I plan on having him do Chemistry next year with Spectrum Chem, and then depending on how he does with that, he'll tackle either AP Chem or a trig-containing Physics. We'll fit Biology in there as well in a couple years.

 

HTH,

Brenda

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Like Brenda, my 8th grader is working through Hewitt's Conceptual Physics (not the physical science) and she loves loves loves it. She is most of the way through algebra 1, and she has all the math background she needs for the CP course.

 

I wish that I had gone this route with my older three kids!

 

My 8th grader will do bio next year, chemistry in 10th, and then two years of AP sciences -- probably chemistry and then physics.

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Wonderful conversation, thanks everyone! More tiny questions if you're still up to chatting:

 

1. Editing a bit: Do you use the Conceptual Physics lab? Did you need certain equipment to demonstrate the ideas? We have tons of science equipment around here, but I'm not really sure about Physics equipment.

 

2. Has anyone used the videos that he apparently made to go with these books? http://www.conceptualphysics.com/books.shtml

 

3. Does your transcript show Physics twice, if you do a mathy type Physics after Chemistry & Biology? If not, do colleges look at Conceptual Physics, Chemistry, and then Biology as showing a student has studied "advanced sciences"? Cynthia, are your kids going to do Apologia or some other advanced Physics, too?

 

4. Adding one more: Is there a best place to purchase these materials, especially if I just want to "look" at this point?

 

 

And yes, the nearby public school is using the 10-12th grade Conceptual Physics, not the 9th grade one & not the college one.

Edited by Julie in MN
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I plan on using Hewitt's Conceptual Physics in 8th with my ds. Here's an great online syllabus I believe I originally found from a link here.

 

I found my copy (3rd edition) from amazon. The ISBN is 0201332876. I was also able to find the teacher edition for less than 20.00, I think I bought that from AbeBooks. The ISBN on it is 0201466988.

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Cynthia, are your kids going to do Apologia or some other advanced Physics, too?

 

I hope to have them do a regular trig/calculus based physics course probably in 12th grade. I will probably not use Apologia because I'm just not a fan of Apologia. I may just have them work through the text my son used for his first semester of physics at university.

 

I'm not quite sure how I will transcript this for my 9th grader (taking it this year with his 8th grade brother). I will use it for a high school science for him, but ds#2 and ds#4 are taking/took it in 8th and I will probably not apply to their high school transcript although I think it would be an acceptable thing to do - I just don't want the boys to finish their sciences too early :-)

 

The videos are OK but unless you can get them through the library or very cheaply, I wouldn't bother. You can access some of them on YouTube.

 

You can find copies of both his high school book (3rd edition) or college level texts on half.com or Amazon.com for under $10. I would suggest that you get a copy of the Teacher Manual because it has all the answers. I'm still unclear about the 10-12th grade version because I've never heard of it. All I know that he has produced is a high school version and a college level text. Both of these have had revisions and you'll see some very early books (1987 ish). I like the high school text (which is for all 4 years but is typically taught in 9th): Conceptual Physics the High School Physics Program (3rd edition 2001/2002). You can use either the high school text or college text because they cover the same material in much the same fashion - I just like the high school version better for younger kids.

 

This is one of my top 5 curricular choices.

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My 9th grader is also doing the high school version of Conceptual Physics, and we both love it! It is fascinating, and the book is very well written and covers many, many topics. So - I have a question for those of you who have done this course...

 

We are using it along with The Teaching Company videos "Physics In Your Life," and I want my son to go through the entire textbook and all of the dvds this year; however, that's a lot to get through. We started out working through many of the problems at the end of each chapter, but I soon realized that there would be no way to get through the whole course if we took that much time with each chapter. So, we have decided to only do the concept checks at the end of each chapter before moving on to the next. That way I know he read and understand the main concepts - but, of course, it doesn't give any practice in working through problems.

 

How have others handled this? Did you cover everything, including problems and labs, or did you skip some chapters, or what did you do?

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We used the physics part of Conceptual Physical Science for physics in 7th grade. At the time, my son had completed a year of algebra. I am seeing what a wonderful thing it is to have physics before chemistry this year when we are doing Conceptual Chemistry. In looking through the biology book I intend to use next year, it is obvious how the chemistry is going to help him there.

 

My son will be taking AP level physics and chemistry later on in high school. I think having a good grounding in physics and chemistry going into high school is fabulous. You could do Conceptual Physics in 9th and then AP or CC physics later on.

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How have others handled this? Did you cover everything, including problems and labs, or did you skip some chapters, or what did you do?

 

Liz,

 

We are doing the following chapters: 2 - 14, 21 - 23, 25 - 29, 32 - 37. I picked chapters to eliminate based on the fact that the material in some of the chapters will be covered in chemistry.

 

We are taking 1 - 2 weeks per chapter depending upon the length of the chapter. Ds basically spends Mon - Wed reading the chapter and taking notes. I ask him the concept check questions after each day's reading. Then he does about 7 or 8 of the remaining problems from the end of the chapter on Thursday. If we've finished a chapter, then he takes the test on Friday and we also do a lab most Fridays.

 

HTH,

Brenda

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Wonderful conversation, thanks everyone! More tiny questions if you're still up to chatting:

 

1. Editing a bit: Do you use the Conceptual Physics lab? Did you need certain equipment to demonstrate the ideas? We have tons of science equipment around here, but I'm not really sure about Physics equipment.

 

2. Has anyone used the videos that he apparently made to go with these books? http://www.conceptualphysics.com/books.shtml

 

3. Does your transcript show Physics twice, if you do a mathy type Physics after Chemistry & Biology? If not, do colleges look at Conceptual Physics, Chemistry, and then Biology as showing a student has studied "advanced sciences"? Cynthia, are your kids going to do Apologia or some other advanced Physics, too?

 

4. Adding one more: Is there a best place to purchase these materials, especially if I just want to "look" at this point?

 

 

And yes, the nearby public school is using the 10-12th grade Conceptual Physics, not the 9th grade one & not the college one.

 

I used Conceptual Physics when I taught high school. I loved the approach but as I was teaching a junior/senior course to college bound students I did need to supplement the math side. The first year we adopted it I used the college version and the second time around we went with the high school version. If I were teaching it to a 9th grader at home I would probably use the high school version, especially if they were going to be doing a more math heavy course later on.

 

I've been out of teaching for awhile and wasn't aware he'd published a 10th-11th grade text, nor is there any indication of that text on his website. I do know there are several other physics texts that use the term "conceptual" in the title and wonder if it might not be one of those books instead.

 

It looks like Barnes and Nobles has a lot of copies in their used book section. If money is tight or you just want to look it over you could easily go with an older version because most of what is taught in physics doesn't change much through the years.

 

I would order the lab manual as many of the labs used easily obtainable materials. Some labs did require pricier science equipment but you wouldn't need to do those. Also, the high school version I was using came with a workbook with supplemental worksheets and I really liked those.

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Pippen, thanks for your experience, especially on the labs.

 

About this:

I've been out of teaching for awhile and wasn't aware he'd published a 10th-11th grade text, nor is there any indication of that text on his website.

 

I'm not sure where the 10-11th thing came from, but what I said is there are 3 versions: http://www.conceptualphysics.com/pghewitt.shtml

 

1. college Conceptual Physics (since 1971)

2. high school (10-12th) Conceptual Physics (since 1987)

3. 9th grade Conceptual Physical Science (since about 2002)

 

There may be an additional book called Conceptual Integrated Science, which looks more like a 7th grade general science to me, and seems to be dated 2006 or so, but that isn't one I was mentioning.

 

Anyways, thanks again,

Julie

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  • 3 months later...

Hi,

 

Dd will be in 9th in the fall. She is taking apologia physical science now thru' co-op. We are thinking of having her take biology thru' cc in 10th, then chem in 11th, and physics in 12th. I'm trying to figure out, what should dd take in 9th if we held off biology till 10th.

 

Conceptual Physics (9th grade bk) looks interesting, but will it be too much review since she's doing Apologia physical science now?

 

Can someone give me the ISBN numbers for the text and TM?

 

Also, for anyone who has written a transcript, what & how did you describe Conceptual Physical Science and deferentiating it from a physics course (that dd will most likely take in 12th)... hope this makes sense!

 

Thanks so much for your help,

Sangita

dd(14),dd(12),dd(9),ds(6)

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...

 

Also, for anyone who has written a transcript, what & how did you describe Conceptual Physical Science and differentiating it from a physics course (that dd will most likely take in 12th)... hope this makes sense!

 

 

Conceptual Physical Science could be listed under that title or using the title Physical Science. Physics would be Physics. They are different classes, and it would not be redundant to have both on a transcript.

 

Regards,

Kareni

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After reading this thread and doing some more thinking, I am leaning toward having my mathy ds do Conceptual Physics in 10th grade. He keeps mentioning that he wants to go into engineering of some sort and absolutely loves algebra! Two question:

1. He really does not want to take biology...how would that look to admissions people at say VA Tech, if he had Earth & Space Science, Conceptual Physics, Chemistry, and then Physics at CC?? He does not want to go into the medical field at all.

 

2. could you give me ISBN #'s for the high school CP book and lab manual that you used? Is that all I would need...the text, and lab manual? Would the TM help me because I am not a science type..but dh is. Basically...exactly what do I need to get my ds through this course?

 

Thanks for your help.

Karen

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1. He really does not want to take biology...how would that look to admissions people at say VA Tech, if he had Earth & Space Science, Conceptual Physics, Chemistry, and then Physics at CC?? He does not want to go into the medical field at all.

 

 

 

 

I think you'd be advised to check with any specific colleges that your son is considering. I'll say though that my daughter did not take Biology (she took Physical Science, Chemistry, Geology, and Environmental Science). She was accepted into eight of the ten schools to which she applied (at the ninth she was waitlisted, the tenth was an Ivy league school). Admittedly, my daughter is not considering engineering as a major. The standards might be different.

 

Regards,

Kareni

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I'm not sure where the 10-11th thing came from, but what I said is there are 3 versions: http://www.conceptualphysics.com/pghewitt.shtml

 

1. college Conceptual Physics (since 1971)

2. high school (10-12th) Conceptual Physics (since 1987)

3. 9th grade Conceptual Physical Science (since about 2002)

 

There may be an additional book called Conceptual Integrated Science, which looks more like a 7th grade general science to me, and seems to be dated 2006 or so, but that isn't one I was mentioning.

 

Actually Conceptual Physical Science is college level, the Explorations version is HS level.

 

There are 2 versions of Conceptual Physics, by Paul Hewitt:

Conceptual Physics: The High School Physics Program (full title)

Conceptual Physics (this one is college level, for nonmajors)

 

There are 2 versions of Conceptual Physical Science (includes Earth & Space as well as Chem & Physics), by Paul Hewitt, John Suchocki, and Leslie Hewitt (Paul's daughter):

Conceptual Physical Science Explorations (high school/remedial CC level)

Conceptual Physical Science (college)

 

There is also a book called Conceptual Integrated Science, by Hewitt, Suchocki, Lyons, and Yeh, which includes Biology as well as Physics, Chemistry, Earth Science, & Astronomy. That one is mostly aimed at community colleges.

 

I have copies of the first 4 books (but not Integrated Science). I haven't used any of them yet, but if you have any questions I can try to answer them.

 

Jackie

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There is also a book called Conceptual Integrated Science, by Hewitt, Suchocki, Lyons, and Yeh, which includes Biology as well as Physics, Chemistry, Earth Science, & Astronomy. That one is mostly aimed at community colleges.

Thank you for mentioning this book, Jackie. I found a copy in pdf format online (please don't ask me where -- I don't think this was a legal copy :blush:). I have been looking for a basic textbook that touches all of the main branches of science, to read for my own personal enrichment -- I pretty much forgot everything I learned in science classes at school! This book fits the bill pretty nicely.

 

 

69

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