I need advice, please!

[Athena]

So WWYD?

 

DH's father is a jerk. I can't stand him most of the time but I try to be nice and not disrupt the family functions. Its no big secret we don't like each other. He was emotionally and physically abusive (to the boys mostly) when DH and his siblings were little.

 

A few weeks ago FIL kept all 3 kids for a long day (6am - 10pm). DH & I had to work and there wasn't anyone else to watch them. I thought everything would be fine, it wasn't. Nick was up next morning early, crying, saying FIL was so mean. FIL called the younger kids names, told them they were stupid babies and that our house was a disgusting pigsty. WOW.

 

No one else in my life acts like this. He is so unpredictable. He can be nice and loving but then turn on a dime to some jerk. And I have no idea what sets him off.

 

Now DH wants to go out Saturday night and there isn't anyone else to keep the kids. DH says the kids are fine and that they won't die over FIL being a jerk from time to time.

I am torn. I want the kids to have a relationship with grandpa. I want to go out with DH. It's only a few hrs before the kids would be in bed. But you can never tell what is going to happen with FIL. I am at a loss. :confused:

 

Any advice? I just wish I knew what to do. And my sister (who I normally ask this stuff to) is mad at me. Sigh.

 

Thanks for listening,

Christy

[Jenny in Florida]

Most of us learn to accept what we experience as "normal" or at least "okay." So, my guess would be that your husband doesn't have enough distance from his father's behavior to get a meaningful perspective on it. You, however, do.

 

I'm not sure how I would approach this discussion with my husband, if I were in your shoes, but I know for sure I wouldn't trust an abuser with my kids.

 

--Jenny

[Sue G in PA]

JMNSHO. I would NEVER again leave the kids alone with him. If my parents, inlaws or anyone ever treated my kids like that...they'd never be alone with them for a LONG time. I disagree w/ your dh. I wouldn't want my dc to be subjected to such verbal abuse. It wouldn't be long before verbal abuse led to physical abuse (NOT saying your FIL would ever touch your kids, but you say he abused your dh and his siblings?). I don't trust a lot of people with my kids and so dh I don't go out very often. I would say either find somebody else or don't go out. Wait until the dc are in bed, get take-out from a good restaurant and watch a movie or play a game.

 

As for relationship btwn the dc and their grandpa...they can have one under supervision...when you or dh are there with them. FIL crossed a line. Imagine how the dc feel. Their grandpa called them stupid babies! How awful! That's something that will stick with them. Trust me...I've slipped and called my kids names in the heat of anger and will regret it for my lifetime. I'm so sorry you are in this situation. I'll be praying for resolution.

[Mrs. H.]

But I know that both the Mama and Papa Bears in dh and I would take over in this situation, and the offending grandparent would be sat down and explained to in no uncertain terms that if they were ever to be welcome in our home again, they would have to 1) apologize to my children, my dh, and me 2) NEVER, EVER again yell at my children or call them names/degrade them, 3) keep their comments about the condition of our home to himself.

 

As for going out with dh, no, I wouldn't go unless I could find a better sitter for the kids. When dh and I lived four hours away from our family, I missed out on a lot of fun social stuff when dh was in law school, because I didn't do babysitters outside of family members, and there were events I couldn't take the kids to.

 

You said that your FIL was both mentally and physically abusive to your dh? That right there would be a big fat NO in my book for him keeping the children. How do you know that he wouldn't lose his temper and do something physical to your kids while you're gone? Obviously an adult who yells and calls kids names to the degree that they are crying about it the next morning shouldn't be around your children unsupervised, if at all. You wouldn't allow this man to treat you the way he has treated your children, would you? You would probably stand up for yourself. You should do just as much for your children, and yes, the things said to them when they are young can have a lasting impression...take it from someone who knows.

 

Your FIL needs to grow up, and you can never protect your children too much when they are little.

[Remudamom]

He wouldn't be watching my kids either.

 

It's called desensitization. I do it with my horses. Introduce something that's scary, and slowly get them to accept it. You don't want your children desensitized to being verbally abused. It hardens them. And teaches them to abuse. Your dh is accepting of it because he's used to it, and doesn't think "it's that bad". It is that bad.

[lynn]

Sadly, he may be unaware of what is he is doing because it's just a common thing to him. Have a heart to heart with him and let him know you want your kids to have time with their grandpa and ask to please watch how he talks to your children and point out when you hear the negative, rude comments. I've called my fil several times on his choice of words which he claims is part of his stroke, funny he's always talked like this. BTDT and having to put up with it for a week for he is coming this evening....

[PariSarah]

Most of us learn to accept what we experience as "normal" or at least "okay." So, my guess would be that your husband doesn't have enough distance from his father's behavior to get a meaningful perspective on it. You, however, do.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Spot on. Bingo. That's it exactly. Yupperoni.

 

"There's no one else to watch them" means, in fact, "there's no one to watch them." And when there's no one to watch them, don't go out. Make finding a reliable babysitter your full time job for the next several weeks.

 

My late grandfather was like this. Generally pleasant to be around, but sometimes he would just go off, for no apparent reason. We actually visited them an awful lot, now that I think back on this as an adult--my mom is very much the peacemaker. But they never left us alone with him.

[RoughCollie]

I would not leave my kids alone with him.

 

I think your FIL has a personality disorder, and there is no use inflicting that on your children. They will hate him for the way he treats them if you leave them alone with him, and that's the opposite of what you want.

 

My mother is like that, and I won't let the kids visit her by themselves or leave them alone with her. Talking to her about it is not enough. She says she is the only totally mentally healthy person she knows. She can control herself, but only when I am there and only because I threatened her with never seeing me or the kids again. She knows I mean it and she hasn't crossed the line. But if I leave the kids with her, I am 100% sure of what will happen and I'm not going to do that.

 

I look upon it being my job to protect my kids from abuse.

[Scarlett]

Honestly, I would think a teenager across the street would be a safer choice for a couple of hours out. I would make it my goal to find a dependable babysitter.

[beansprouts]

No. Absolutely not.

 

If Grandpa wants a relationship with your children it can be short supervised visits.

 

I agree that your dh has accepted this behavior as "normal", but you know better. You need to put your foot down here. Your FIL can not be trusted alone with your kids.

[Peek a Boo]

ARGH!! i hate people like that!!

 

I'm w/ Mrs. H --

 

:rant:

there is no way in :cursing: I'd leave my kids w/ that man ever again. :angry:

 

And he would NOT get visitation rights either.

 

That's a hill I'd die on and stand my ground w/ dh. And I have.

 

This kind of thing seriously pisses me off. make sure you show this thread to your dh --if he leaves those kids w/ his dad then dh is being STUPID. And so are you if you cave and let it continue. You know better. :banghead:

 

We do NOT need to have relationships w/ people just because they are kin. BAD REASONING! If he can't be respectful, he can't be seen. Period.

 

:rant:

 

man, this stuff gets me worked up. Now I hafta go clean something.....

RRRRR!!!~!!!

[beansprouts]

I would not leave my kids alone with him.

 

I think your FIL has a personality disorder and there is no use inflicting that on your children. They will hate him for the way he treats them if you leave them alone with him, and that's the opposite of what you want.

 

My mother is like that, and I won't let the kids visit her by themselves or leave them alone with her. Talking to her about it is not enough...

 

Similar issues here. :(

[Tracey in TX]

I would not allow FIL to watch my children again for a very long time. He has no sense of boundaries and probably believes he is correct in speaking his version of the truth--no matter who it hurts.

Maybe you and DH can kindly set your expectations, as this just might be a new concept to him. If he's not receptive, then you need to be willing to forgo FIL watching your children again no matter what the cost. He's being cruel to your DC and should never be tolerated.

 

I know how awful poor IL relationships can be. My DC do not know their grandparents. They don't want us to visit and they're unwilling to visit us.

[Harriet Vane]

May I please beg you to please, NEVER, ever leave your children with this man again?

 

This behavior does hurt children. Period.

 

AND, giving your children over to the care of someone who treats them like this will erode their relationship with you. They will know that keeping them safe (whether from beatings or mean words, either of which cause damage and wound) is just not important to you. They will grow up knowing that they (your children) and their safety are not a priority to you.

 

Please, do not EVER leave them with this man again. You have all the evidence you need both from this incident and from your dh's life to know better. Do not teach your children that being treated like this is something to be gotten used to or endured.

[PrairieAir]

So WWYD?

 

DH's father is a jerk. I can't stand him most of the time but I try to be nice and not disrupt the family functions. Its no big secret we don't like each other. He was emotionally and physically abusive (to the boys mostly) when DH and his siblings were little.

 

A few weeks ago FIL kept all 3 kids for a long day (6am - 10pm). DH & I had to work and there wasn't anyone else to watch them. I thought everything would be fine, it wasn't. Nick was up next morning early, crying, saying FIL was so mean. FIL called the younger kids names, told them they were stupid babies and that our house was a disgusting pigsty. WOW.

 

No one else in my life acts like this. He is so unpredictable. He can be nice and loving but then turn on a dime to some jerk. And I have no idea what sets him off.

 

Now DH wants to go out Saturday night and there isn't anyone else to keep the kids. DH says the kids are fine and that they won't die over FIL being a jerk from time to time.

I am torn. I want the kids to have a relationship with grandpa. I want to go out with DH. It's only a few hrs before the kids would be in bed. But you can never tell what is going to happen with FIL. I am at a loss. :confused:

 

Any advice? I just wish I knew what to do. And my sister (who I normally ask this stuff to) is mad at me. Sigh.

 

Thanks for listening,

Christy

 

No, I wouldn't leave the kids with him. And this from someone who would've left her kids with dh's alcoholic (but non-violent and fairly responsible) uncle as mentioned in a previous thread.

 

The deciding factors for me in this case would be:

1)Physically and emotionally abusive to his own children

2)Last time seems to have been pretty traumatic for your ds. He didn't think it was "nothing".

3)You said FIL is unpredictable. To me that says he's a powder keg waiting to blow. He is not in control of his emotions and his reactions to what is going on around him and how he acts on those emotions is equally unpredictable. He. Is. Out. Of. Control. He may just yell at your kids or he may hurt them physically. If he is not in control, he may not even be aware of how bad he could be hurting them. He could turn in anger and send one of them flying. I am not talking about spanking here. I'm talking about out of control abuse.

 

Maybe it's not as bad as all that. It's hard to tell from a post on a message board. From the information you gave though, there is no way I'd let my kids stay with him. I wouldn't even feel obligated to make sure my kids developed much of a relationship with him or saw him at all those family occasions.

[Whisperlily]

The others have said it well, but I'll add my voice. NO! You should NEVER leave your children with him. EVER.

 

I used to work in the Juvenile Court system, and we handled cases where Social Services has been involved (abuse, neglect, etc.).

 

One thing I remember being surprised about is that a mother can be prosecuted if she knows there has been abuse (mental and emotional included) and has not taken steps to protect her children. Even if the abuser is her husband. If she KNOWS, and puts her children at risk, SHE is held responsible as well.

 

Honey, DO NOT put your children at risk for abuse. Protecting your children is MUCH more important than bruising an adult's ego, whether it's your DH's feelings or FIL's you're afraid of hurting.... protect your children first.

[j.griff]

IMO, this is the straw that has broken the camel's back. There's no way in hell I'd leave my kids with him EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER again. NO WAY IN HELL.

You DS has already been traumatized by his behavior, there is NO need to put him through anything like that EVER again in his life. What has that type of treatment done to your Dh that you are so angry at this man about? Are you really willing to let that same type of thing happen to your sweet babies? I don't THINK so.

DH could be as offended as he wants, I would not step foot in that man's house again. He has lost it. The END. You need to find someone else to babysit for you, someone who will treat your DC well. A date is NOT a priority worth endangering your children's physical or mental well-being for. Nope. AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

Don't get on the slide with DH, don't slip down that slope and let your DC grow up in such a horrid situation. For crying out loud, this is an ADULT who is supposed to LOVE them, and think the world of them- and he said horrible things to them- how do your DC feel now? (what is wrong with me? what did i do wrong that made grandpa act that way? i must be really stupid, he's a grown up and he probably knows if people are really stupid or not. if i wasn't so stupid, then grandpa wouldn't have yelled at us like that. etc.)

[Aubrey]

"Having a relationship with" does not equal "staying alone with."

[Athena]

I went and talked to DH about it and he started to say it isn't as bad as it sounds.....I pointed out how upset I was over FIL's behavior but DH wasn't fazed. That showed how desensitized he has become to the abuse. He stopped there. I really expected a fight! But no, we are going to an Easter egg hunt (with the family & FIL) on Sat afternoon and if we find a sitter for Sat night we will go out otherwise we will stay home and play DanceDanceRevolution.

 

Well, I'm glad I asked, sometimes I can't tell if I'm being overly sensitive. And I hope Peek doesn't have a coronary over there!

 

Thank you all!

 

:grouphug:

[Mrs. H.]

I'm really glad to hear that your dh didn't fight you on this, and who knows? Maybe you opened his eyes and he will pay more attention to what his father says to other people. I really think you did the right thing here.

[Danestress]

There is almost always someone else to watch the children if you are willing to pay for it. I'd start working on generating a list of people who babysit. If you call early, pay well, and have children who behave reasonably well, you should usually be able to find a sitter.

 

I think you have to find an alternative to FIL. There is no way I would leave my children with him under these circumstances.

[OneRoomHomeSchool]

I would NEVER again leave the kids alone with him.

 

:iagree: To me, that is a no-brainer. :confused:

[WTMindy]

ARGH!! i hate people like that!!

 

I'm w/ Mrs. H --

 

:rant:

there is no way in :cursing: I'd leave my kids w/ that man ever again. :angry:

 

And he would NOT get visitation rights either.

 

That's a hill I'd die on and stand my ground w/ dh. And I have.

 

This kind of thing seriously pisses me off. make sure you show this thread to your dh --if he leaves those kids w/ his dad then dh is being STUPID. And so are you if you cave and let it continue. You know better. :banghead:

 

We do NOT need to have relationships w/ people just because they are kin. BAD REASONING! If he can't be respectful, he can't be seen. Period.

 

:rant:

 

man, this stuff gets me worked up. Now I hafta go clean something.....

RRRRR!!!~!!!

and tell us how you really feel. I agree with you, by the way.

[j.griff]

That's great news, pat DH on the back for us and give that man a cookie :D

[*anj*]

Okay, I'm chiming in a day late and a dollar short but I've got to tell you that the hive was 100% right, and I'm glad that you didn't have to actually die on that hill. Fortunately dh was able to hear what you were saying.

 

As someone said "having a relationship" doesn't mean "being left alone with." There is someone in my dh's family with whom I would never leave my children. Never.

[Crissy]

That showed how desensitized he has become to the abuse. :

 

Exactly!

He could very well have in mind the sort of physical abuse he suffered as a child and find this mild in comparison.

 

I'm glad you found a solution.

[Peek a Boo]

I went and talked to DH about it and he started to say it isn't as bad as it sounds.....I pointed out how upset I was over FIL's behavior but DH wasn't fazed. That showed how desensitized he has become to the abuse. He stopped there. I really expected a fight!

Well, I'm glad I asked, sometimes I can't tell if I'm being overly sensitive. And I hope Peek doesn't have a coronary over there!

 

:grouphug:

 

ok, i didn't suffer a coronary lol [pretty close!], but I was thinking about this All. Day. Long.

 

Your dh's reaction really doesn't make me feel any better.

 

{not that your goal is to make ME feel good, LOL! But it's not too often that a post comes along that rings sooooooo similar to what we have gone through. Alarms goin' off all over my head all day. I'll bet i could peg your dh's habits in a few other areas too. But MY goal is for your children to BE safe. And I'm going to share as many thoughts as I can so you have the information you need to combat this situation. If you've already considered them, that's fine too :)}

 

You can pretty much expect that unless you make it painfully, threateningly clear to him, HE will likely decide to leave the kids w/ grampa "just while I run to the store." Or as you even mentioned "so they'll have a relationship with him." especially after this "blows over" for a few days. Yup --"just wait a few days and let it blow over --she's just over reacting right now."

 

i had to almost threaten dh on pain of divorce that if he EVER leaves our kids w/ his dad again i will call upon every authority in heaven and on earth to make his life absolutely miserable. I will NOT tolerate even a SHORT session of the kids being unsupervised w/ their grampa. If dh is not on board protecting them FULLY, then he's not gonna remain on board, PERIOD.

 

Now my fil DOES have a relationship w/ them --because I scrutinize Every Minute. But dh Just. Doesn't. See it. Even now. He won't leave the kids because if I find out, he's toast. he simply doesn't think that fil "would do that again" cuz i already made a HUGE scene the first time. I know better. if it happened once, it WILL happen again.

 

your dh does not, and likely WILL NOT ever realize those boundaries. his boundaries and reason in this scenario were eroded away by YEARS of abuse. It will take just as many years -if not more- before regaining them. It's not that dh is choosing to put them in an unsafe situation, it's because the ability to MAKE that choice has been beaten out of him. his ability to make decisions in this area are pretty much non-existent. Not because he doesn't WANT the kids to be safe, but he literally is blind to what's going on. And like any other situation where one's sight is impaired, you lovingly help them work past those limitations while still staunchly refusing to let them go roller skating in the street.

 

SHOW HIM THIS THREAD IF YOU HAVE TO.

wait --use the thread tools, go to "printable version" and copy n paste it into a document. delete this post or most of it, lol.

 

Your dh is NOT as on board w/ your decision as he needs to be.

he needs to prove to you that he will NOT leave them w/ fil --even if you aren't around to consult.

 

until then, you need to protect your dc from your fil AND from your dh's faulty desensitized thinking.

 

 

work NOW to establish a great babysitter. Or at the least someone who will be better than fil. Ask around at a church [yours if you have one, ANY big church if you don't]. let the pastor know the situation and see if he can recommend someone who will help out of the goodness of their heart so it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg.

 

Change your job situation if you have to: it does no good to be on time w/ bills if your kids are in an abusive situation.

 

 

and GOOD LUCK --you are going to need it, and many many prayers. But your children will be safe because of it. make sure you do what's right: not what's popular, and not what's easy.

[Kris]

Absolutely not. It would be one thing if you didn't know, and didn't already have experience with the fact that he's just as bad at being a grandfather was he was about being a father.

 

I'm amazed your DH thinks it's okay for his children to be subjected to that abuse. And you say he was not only emotionally abusive, but physically as well?

 

Stay home and order pizza.

[OnTheBrink]

My ex-MIL sounds like your FIL. After she made racial comments about my son (using the N word) in his presence, I refused to allow my kids to be alone with her. Part of my divorce decree is that my dd NEVER be alone with her at all, ever. EX won't stand up to her (because he's just as insane as she is) and I had to make some sort of stand.

 

Good luck dealing with this. It's disheartening to not be able to trust your FIL, but he can do a lot of damage to your dc and it just can't be allowed to happen.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I'm glad you stood your ground.

 

Just one other reason NOT to leave your children with their grandfather: They have told you how he treated them. They expect you to protect them. If you send them back into the fire again, they will feel abandoned by YOU. They'll feel vulnerable, and unprotected, and unable to trust you to keep them from danger. They need to know that you will stand by them and protect them from the meanies in the world, even if the meany is their grandfather.

[Liz CA]

ARGH!! i hate people like that!!

 

I'm w/ Mrs. H --

 

:rant:

there is no way in :cursing: I'd leave my kids w/ that man ever again. :angry:

 

And he would NOT get visitation rights either.

 

That's a hill I'd die on and stand my ground w/ dh. And I have.

 

This kind of thing seriously pisses me off. make sure you show this thread to your dh --if he leaves those kids w/ his dad then dh is being STUPID. And so are you if you cave and let it continue. You know better. :banghead:

 

We do NOT need to have relationships w/ people just because they are kin. BAD REASONING! If he can't be respectful, he can't be seen. Period.

 

:rant:

 

man, this stuff gets me worked up. Now I hafta go clean something.....

RRRRR!!!~!!!

 

just let me know when y'all coming to clean! :D Oh and you are soooo right! Say it like it is, girl!

[Joanne]

I'll take an even more firm stand.

 

I say be willing to leave a family gathering the very first moment FIL is inappropriate, rude, mean or unkind by any reasonable standards. And "reasonable standards" can't be determined by people abused by him but unrecovered, as in the case of your DH.

 

I'd also strongly encourage DH to get outside professional help to give him the best hope at learning "normal and safe" and healing from his abusive upbringing. I know from my marriage that when things are outrageously not ok, lots of things that are STILL totally not ok go under the radar and become normalized into "not a big deal". It's very likely your DH's radar for acceptable is drastically flawed.

[Harriet Vane]

I'll take an even more firm stand.

 

I say be willing to leave a family gathering the very first moment FIL is inappropriate, rude, mean or unkind by any reasonable standards. And "reasonable standards" can't be determined by people abused by him but unrecovered, as in the case of your DH.

 

I'd also strongly encourage DH to get outside professional help to give him the best hope at learning "normal and safe" and healing from his abusive upbringing. I know from my marriage that when things are outrageously not ok, lots of things that are STILL totally not ok go under the radar and become normalized into "not a big deal". It's very likely your DH's radar for acceptable is drastically flawed.

 

I have to agree. It's a skill I had to learn with my own, sick, freakin' dysfunctional family.

 

When leaving you do NOT have to make a scene. You can just leave. Make sure your have a pre-determined excuse handy. You might even say ahead of time, "I'm not sure we'll be able to stay long but we'll look forward to seeing you."

 

Also warn your children ahead of time that you may be leaving early. You don't have to have a heavy or unpleasant talk about it (though at some point you may choose to do so if they seem to need to understand the truth)--all you really have to do is give them warning that you may be leaving early and to be ready when you call them. It's easier to ease them out of situations when they are prepared that way.

 

DO NOT give any elaborate explanations to fil or others. This will erupt into unpleasantness. Just say your lines, gather your children, and LEAVE.

 

Attempts to debate or explain in these situations erupts badly.

 

It is important to be able to LEAVE, and it is also important to be able to do so calmly, for your own sake and your dh's.

 

I want you to know, too, Athena, that my heart does go out to your husband. I am sorry for what he grew up with, sorry for the ways he continues to live with it. It is so very, very hard to process, and so hard to figure out as an adult what is acceptable and what is not, especially when a family culture is so unhealthy.

 

It's not an easy road for either of you to walk, but I really respect you for choosing to think this through and do better for your children than was done towards your dh.

[Peek a Boo]

yup yup yup.

 

My pre arranged phrase w/ dh is "We need to get home and check on the dog. She wasn't feeling too well when we left."

 

If I utter those words, it means i want to leave NOW and my head is about to pop off and spin around. karenciavo's avatar? I'd be a step away from there. My eyes would already be glowing.....

[bkpan]

First, I do agree with the other posters, that you mustn't ask your FIL to babysit again. This is not healthy for your dc or for him. But, I might encourage a little mercy toward FIL as well. There's only so much info in a post, but one thing that stuck out to me was how LONG you asked your FIL to watch the children. My mom, dad, stepmom, etc. are loving grandparents, but there is NO WAY that they could babysit our dc from 6am until 10pm without having some very real stress. And perhaps saying some things that they might not mean as well.

 

Please, I'm not trying to blame you for your FIL's unkind words, but you did have some knowledge of his personality beforehand. Asking him to be the sole caretaker of your children for 16hrs straight, was asking for trouble, IMO. So, you and dh are reminded that his dad is NOT a caretaker of young children. But, that doesn't mean that he is a complete failure as a grandparent. All of us have weak areas. You certainly know his. Now you'll be more careful to protect your dc and your fil from that type of situation again. (even if it is more difficult for your dh to see!)

 

So, I hope that this is taken as a helpful response. I hope that a good relationship betw. your dc and their grandpa is still possible, perhaps in a less stressful environment.

 

Kim in TN (used to be in NV)

[Antonia]

No way, no how, no matter how angry my dh might get with me. And, yes, I have walked in your shoes.

[Janet in WA]

So WWYD?

In all seriousness, the first thing I'd do would be to get down on my knees and thank God that my dh wasn't the kind of father he had. If your dh is merely tolerant of the behavior, but doesn't repeat it with his own children, you are blessed.

[Joanne]

First, I do agree with the other posters, that you mustn't ask your FIL to babysit again. This is not healthy for your dc or for him. But, I might encourage a little mercy toward FIL as well. There's only so much info in a post, but one thing that stuck out to me was how LONG you asked your FIL to watch the children. My mom, dad, stepmom, etc. are loving grandparents, but there is NO WAY that they could babysit our dc from 6am until 10pm without having some very real stress. And perhaps saying some things that they might not mean as well.

 

Please, I'm not trying to blame you for your FIL's unkind words, but you did have some knowledge of his personality beforehand. Asking him to be the sole caretaker of your children for 16hrs straight, was asking for trouble, IMO. So, you and dh are reminded that his dad is NOT a caretaker of young children. But, that doesn't mean that he is a complete failure as a grandparent. All of us have weak areas. You certainly know his. Now you'll be more careful to protect your dc and your fil from that type of situation again. (even if it is more difficult for your dh to see!)

 

So, I hope that this is taken as a helpful response. I hope that a good relationship betw. your dc and their grandpa is still possible, perhaps in a less stressful environment.

 

Kim in TN (used to be in NV)

 

This is a very gracious response. And I'd agree if the FIL/grandpa in question were just tired, "older", in a different season of life. But we are talking about an unrecovered, apparently unrepentent child abuser:

He was emotionally and physically abusive (to the boys mostly) when DH and his siblings were little.

 

The OP does not mention him getting help or better. In this case, I would not "work toward relationship", I'd set a standard of courtesy, a plan of action for leaving upon him "turning on a dime" and I'd protect my family from the toxic, eggshell environment he creates.