How concerned I should be about this: my 6 yo's spelling...

[Annabel Lee]

Here is how he spelled the following words in a note we were writing back & forth to eachother in church. His spelling of the word is first, mine next in parentheses. He is 6, in 1st, and has not had a formal spelling program yet. I've been waiting for him to get to lesson 140 in OPG before starting that. ETA: My other 2 dc never spelled this poorly at all which is why I am a little panicked, but then I used a totally different approach w/ them (Abeka w/ all of its worksheets).

 

three (there)

u (a)

sch (such)

theeng (thing)

im (am)

hnge (hungry)

ca (can)

et (eat)

liv (live)

noth (north)

poll (pole)

sumtheng (something)

inetheng (anything)

 

Thanks for any help evaluating this.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Annabel Lee

[MyLittleWonders]

For having no formal spelling yet and only part way through OPG, it looks fine. The only thing that stands out to me is he doesn't seem yet to be hearing all the sounds in the words (or maybe just doesn't realize all the sounds need to be written). Hnge (no /r/), ca (no /n/) and noth (no /r/) are the only ones where he didn't seem to quite get all the sounds. If you are concerned, you can do some word-segmenting with him (start with 3-letter c-v-c words, have 3 "tokens" or pennies, and have him slowly say the word and pull down in front of him one token for each sound; move on to longer words/more sounds as he feels successful hearing the individual phonemes. But overall, I wouldn't be concerned unless you had already started a formal spelling program.

[Lovedtodeath]

It looks like he is trying to remember the letters in a word. Most successful spellers remember the sounds instead of the letters. Compared to my DD it looks perfectly normal. We are going through level one of AAS and her spelling has already improved.

[abbeyej]

Of that list, most of the words wouldn't concern me at all. *Especially* if the way he spelled them represents fairly accurately the way he *speaks* (and thus the way he hears them in his head). For instance, "there" for three might bother me if I thought it represented an inability to recognize the order of the sounds in the word. However, if he says "thu-ree" in his head, "there" would make a certain sense. The same logic would apply to hungry, north, and can... Would he leave out the Rs and the N in can when he speaks?

 

If so, I'd assume he's just beginning to put together what he *hears* and the concept of encoding words -- a skill you haven't yet worked on. That's great.

 

Both of my kids have given me wild phonetic spellings when they are early readers and just beginning to write (without a lot of formal spelling instruction yet). And both have become very strong spellers ("natural" spellers, but with a clear grasp of phonetic rules as well) later on.

 

Things that would worry me would be inserting totally inappropriate sounds in a word ("tme" for tree) or showing the sounds completely out of order ("eetr" for tree)...

 

Using what little he knows of the sounds that each letter makes and stringing them into an appropriate sequence is *good* at this stage. As long as he's hearing (basically) the right sounds and making reasonable (if not correct) guesses as to the letters to use and sequencing them properly (most of the time), then I wouldn't be worried about dyslexia or anything like that.

 

It appears to me that he's right on track...

[patchfire]

Most successful spellers remember the sounds instead of the letters.

 

Sorry to derail, but. Really? I'm genuinely surprised to read this. I've never had an issue with spelling and I always, always just remember how the word "looks." Huh. Interesting. I never thought about it before.

[Caribbean Queen]

three (there)

u (a)

sch (such)

theeng (thing)

im (am)

hnge (hungry)

ca (can)

et (eat)

liv (live)

noth (north)

poll (pole)

sumtheng (something)

inetheng (anything)

 

Thanks for any help evaluating this.

 

It looks good to me. He missed some vowels. Those vowels are tricky. He missed a few other sounds, but he is only starting first grade. He misspelled some words because he doesn't know all the spelling rules yet.

 

eat has a silent a because "when 2 vowels go a-walking the first one does the talking.

 

Pole and poll sound the same, but are spelled differently

 

Some (in something) and sum sound the same but are spelled differently

 

live has an e at the end because words in English don't end with v

 

You know what I do with my son? I have him try to say all the sounds (not letters) in a word. So can would be said c a n. Hungry would be said h u n g r e. We do this as a little game sometimes to help with phonemic awareness.

[AudreyTN]

For the most part it looks like he's trying to spell the words the way they sound. He's using what he's learning in Phonics.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I'll be honest and will probably get a lot of flack for writing this, but I hate inventive spelling and think that it does cause issues later on in school. My dd8, who has had spelling words since 1st grade, learned to write with inventive spelling in kindergarten. She aces spelling tests but in context writing she spells horribly and still to this day tries to spell from sounds. I wish that I wouldn't have listened to the school when she was in kindergarten about not correcting the inventive spelling. I wish I would have corrected her every time she spelled wrong.

I have a ds6.5 and we are doing spelling this year and I do correct his spelling from sound and have him rewrite it the right way. I honestly believe that had I done this with my dd8 then she would not have the issues and horrible spelling that she does now.

I would buy a spelling book and start now and I would correct his spelling every time it is wrong. I wouldn't let him continue to spell the words wrong. I would look at it and say great try but this is how it is really spelled, let's practice.

[robsiew]

Seeing as he's only 6 and has had no formal spelling training... I'm not sure that I'd be so worried. I guess I'd have been really surprised if my 6 year old, who had never worked on spelling, spelled those words correctly. I do think correct spelling is important, but I think we also need to keep in mind that for most children, spelling needs to be taught.

[hmschooling]

Sorry to derail, but. Really? I'm genuinely surprised to read this. I've never had an issue with spelling and I always, always just remember how the word "looks." Huh. Interesting. I never thought about it before.

 

C'mon, no need to get defensive...she used a qualifier. ;)

 

I agree that many successful spellers are those that can spell by sounds, that's why so many of the classical homeschoolers worry so much about PHONICS and SPELLING RULES! Not so much about the CM approach of "does it look right?". It's those rules that help us recall the letters that go with the sounds in the words. Unless we've been taught the more CM way which is also highly effective and the way I teach my kids mostly. I on the other hand, actually sound out words I'm spelling, sound by sound, if they are the slightest big unfamiliar to me or are longer than average-- although I still don't know the rules-- and I'm a perty gud speler.:lol:

 

Seriously, I think the fact that he has had no formal teaching about spelling, that you should be very proud! He picked out so many sounds in those words and I think it should be displayed on the fridge for all to see with a big smiley face on it. Then I'd also talk to him about the words and sounds that belong and show him the correct spelling. I don't ignore incorrect "inventive" spelling, but I also don't keep my creative, story writing kids from their story writing fun just b/c they can't spell yet. I use it as a casual learning opportunity (see, I just sounded out that word to type it). Formalities can wait, but don't ignore. It's a fine line.

[patchfire]

C'mon, no need to get defensive...she used a qualifier. ;)

 

I truly wasn't trying to be defensive. I find differences in the way people think about various things - like spelling - to be fascinating!

[FO4UR]

It's not something I would worry about, but I would take his phonetic attempts at spelling as a sign that he's ready for spelling lessons. My ds6 uses some invented spelling on his own, and I don't correct every single thing if he's just writing for fun...but I do actively teach spelling, and don't allow mispellings in "school work."

[campmom]

I agree with this my dd is 22 now and still has problems spelling because he was taught this way in public school. I would make corrections with him as soon as possible.

[Joker]

My second dd has the same problem and I think it was also caused by ps and their desire to not correct those mistakes. This year we are using "Dictation Day by Day" (a free google book online) and she has greatly improved. She was acing all tests before but now she is able to correctly spell the words in everyday writing. I wouldn't worry but I would start working towards correcting. HTH

[Lovedtodeath]

It is not a problem for your 6 year old to be spelling that way now. It is not something to be concerned or worried about at 6 years old. Children are taught spelling because they will naturally not do it correctly. You should, however, start a spelling program.

[kalanamak]

Most successful spellers remember the sounds instead of the letters./QUOTE]

 

Define success. I am a poor speller for my level of education, but still above average for the country. I remember visually, and make the same mistakes over and over. If I "sound it out" I get it wrong more often.

[Sue G in PA]

I just purchased Gail Graham's How to Teach Any Child To Spell at the recommendation of ElizabethB to help my ds8 who is a terrible speller (by my standards). He is in ps. He spells phonetically...by sound. Graham says that natural spellers have good visual memories...they can just see and remember how words are supposed to be spelled or how they are supposed to "look". If they see a misspelling...the work looks "funny" to them and they correct it until it looks right. A non-visual person might have difficulty with this. She also says that memorizing lists of words is of no benefit for non-natural spellers. I see this in my ds8 who can ACE a spelling test, but misspell those SAME words in his writing assignments. Graham says the best way to learn to spell is to use the words the child misspells in his daily writing and teach to the specific errors he/she is making. She encourages free writing, where you do NOT correct spelling right away. You let them write. Then, you have THEM proof their own work, use their own misspellings to make a personal "spelling notebook". I'm simplifying here, but it is quite interesting to me. As for your ds6..I wouldn't worry! He has a good grasp of his phonics! Oh, one other problem for some kids is the way the "hear" words. If they are not pronouncing or hearing prounounced all the separate syllables, they will often leave certain sounds out of their spelling of the word. Teaching them to pronounce each syllable and each sounds will help.

 

I'm just reading this book right now, so please take all this with a grain of salt. I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination! I just found this book very interesting.

[Lovedtodeath]

Spelling for Success

[Wildiris]

For a note written in church by a 6 year old I would not expect much if anything resembling correct spelling. The decoding process is just too new. If the child were 8 or 9 it might send up some red flags but not yet. A formal spelling workbook with a heavy dose of dictation and copywork on a consistent basis might improve the situation. Hearing and seeing the vowel sounds in words takes time and training.

[Terabith]

Gosh, no, I wouldn't be concerned. My oldest will be six in two months, is a pretty fluent reader (3rd grade-ish or so, with decent fluency), and I can't imagine her spelling anything like that well. (Of course, to be honest, she can't spell much of anything. I've been a little concerned that she doesn't make any attempts to write or spell *anything.*) But, that sounds good for a six yr old writing an informal note in church. Not exactly peak concentration there, and six/ September of first grade is sooooo little.

[abbeyej]

I think it's very much possible to have a middle ground there.

 

When my kids are first learning to read and write, I would not correct little notes passed in church, or little stories they write on their own time, etc, *unless* they ask for my help (either to spell a particular word or to correct the spelling overall).

 

However, I *do* correct spelling done at school time, and I point out that there *are* correct spellings of words. Perhaps if a child made me a grocery list of items they wanted to add to my list, I would make a show of carefully adding each word to my list and saying, "Oh, milk! You're right, I need to add that. See where you wrote 'melk'? The way we actually spell that word is m-i-l-k -- do you hear the miiiiiiiiilk sound in there? Let's add it to my list: m-i-l-k. Good! What else ya' got for me?" etc...

 

So yes, it's possible to emphasize correct spelling for school work and certain other times without squelching a young child's desire to experiment with a newfound skill -- the ability to encode words for others to read later. Both of my kids have been prolific writers from the time they were quite young, and I would hate to make them feel they couldn't write if they didn't know how to spell the words, or that I would punish them for free-time writing by making them do everything twice. So I just don't correct writing that they instigate on their own time. Eventually, however, both of them have come to recognize that they *wanted* their work to be spelled correctly.

 

And they're now both excellent spellers. (My 6th grader is just a good speller across the board. My 3rd grader is a good speller for her age/grade, but we still have a ways to go before I consider her studies with spelling "complete".)

 

I think there's a time to allow invented spellings. And I think there's a time to correct (gently) each word. And it's important to find a balance that allows kids to be creative and experiment with their developing skills without completely ignoring conventional spelling and mechanics.

[Tress]

Thank you, abbeyej!

 

That's what I have been doing, but I'm a new homeschooler and with the heavy emphasis on correct writing and spelling in WTM I started to doubt myself. Now I can :chillpill:.

[EKS]

This looks very similar to my older son's spelling at that age. He has dyslexia.

[Annabel Lee]

I think it's very much possible to have a middle ground there.

 

When my kids are first learning to read and write, I would not correct little notes passed in church, or little stories they write on their own time, etc, *unless* they ask for my help (either to spell a particular word or to correct the spelling overall).

 

However, I *do* correct spelling done at school time, and I point out that there *are* correct spellings of words. Perhaps if a child made me a grocery list of items they wanted to add to my list, I would make a show of carefully adding each word to my list and saying, "Oh, milk! You're right, I need to add that. See where you wrote 'melk'? The way we actually spell that word is m-i-l-k -- do you hear the miiiiiiiiilk sound in there? Let's add it to my list: m-i-l-k. Good! What else ya' got for me?" etc...

 

So yes, it's possible to emphasize correct spelling for school work and certain other times without squelching a young child's desire to experiment with a newfound skill -- the ability to encode words for others to read later. Both of my kids have been prolific writers from the time they were quite young, and I would hate to make them feel they couldn't write if they didn't know how to spell the words, or that I would punish them for free-time writing by making them do everything twice. So I just don't correct writing that they instigate on their own time. Eventually, however, both of them have come to recognize that they *wanted* their work to be spelled correctly.

 

And they're now both excellent spellers. (My 6th grader is just a good speller across the board. My 3rd grader is a good speller for her age/grade, but we still have a ways to go before I consider her studies with spelling "complete".)

 

I think there's a time to allow invented spellings. And I think there's a time to correct (gently) each word. And it's important to find a balance that allows kids to be creative and experiment with their developing skills without completely ignoring conventional spelling and mechanics.

 

Ok, *phew*. After going through all the responses here I'm relieved b/c the above is what I already do. On the note in question, I spelled most of his misspelled words back to him correctly in my responses. He reads pretty well; going through the student reading sections in OPG easily and reading easy beginning readers such as Nate the Great, etc. I've not seen any indicators of dyslexia, so unless & until I've taught him spelling & we're still having these problems I won't worry about that. Here's how the complete note went, w/ my responses to him:

C: I im hunge

Me: Hungry?

C: Ca I et

Me: Can you eat what?

C: sumtheng inetheng

Me: something anything (with arrows pointed to his corresponding word)

Me: When Miss Janelle is done talking we'll go see what's here.

C: Liv in Noth Poll

Me: North Pole is south of Fairbanks.

C: Is three u sch theeng as south pole

Me: There is not a city named South Pole. The real South Pole is in Antarctica.

(whispering about penguins ensued)

 

 

So... I guess all is not lost - I do let him write in his playing w/o making it miserable for him by turning it into 'more school'. I do pick up those papers and copy words he's misspelled onto a personal spelling list for him to work on when we start spelling, which is now today. He's not aware that I do this. When he writes for school, we correct immediately. I'm starting him in AAS today since we have it.

 

Thanks for the help & input!

[MerryAtHope]

Sorry to derail, but. Really? I'm genuinely surprised to read this. I've never had an issue with spelling and I always, always just remember how the word "looks." Huh. Interesting. I never thought about it before.

 

What do you do if you are trying to read or write a new word? Spelling is actually both visual and auditory. The auditory tells us which sounds to choose from and which order the sounds need to go in (we can't write cta for cat), and the visual helps us discriminate between symbols (is it treet or treat?). Readers who read strictly visually can think that house and horse look like the same word--same beginning, same ending, same shape. Saying the sounds help us discriminate one word from another. The same works in spelling.

 

Merry :-)

[choirfarm]

What do you do if you are trying to read or write a new word? Spelling is actually both visual and auditory. The auditory tells us which sounds to choose from and which order the sounds need to go in (we can't write cta for cat), and the visual helps us discriminate between symbols (is it treet or treat?). Readers who read strictly visually can think that house and horse look like the same word--same beginning, same ending, same shape. Saying the sounds help us discriminate one word from another. The same works in spelling.

 

Merry :-)

 

Hi Merry,

 

I'm like the person you responded to. I don't really know how to spell. I just know if it looks right or not. To be honest, I mispronounce new words. I completely turned red when I mispronounced ancient in 5th grade class and then in college as a music major I was all ready to talk about Chopin which I had pronounced phonetically (should be Showpan). I have been eternally grateful that the teacher didn't call on me. I had heard of Chopin, but had never seen his name spelled only pronounced. I tell my boys to do what I do when I write a paper: I circle any word I'm not sure about and look it up. That said, since they do everything on the computer it corrects it for them. I'm starting to get concerned about essay tests as I am beginning to see problems on the tests I give them that they take on paper. I'm going to have to start taking off and providing them with a dictionary. But anyway, I'm all visual with spelling. It just doesn't look right!! I never learned phonics so knowing what the sound is just doesn't help. I was National Merit scholar!! Reading is my best subject. I just know what the word is. I've never ever sounded them out to my knowledge.

 

Christine

[patchfire]

What do you do if you are trying to read or write a new word? Spelling is actually both visual and auditory. The auditory tells us which sounds to choose from and which order the sounds need to go in (we can't write cta for cat), and the visual helps us discriminate between symbols (is it treet or treat?). Readers who read strictly visually can think that house and horse look like the same word--same beginning, same ending, same shape. Saying the sounds help us discriminate one word from another. The same works in spelling.

 

Merry :-)

 

I actually do very poorly with reading new words. I don't pronounce them correctly. There are certain words I still avoid using verbally because I just cannot get the rules of pronunciation mastered. I can easily figure out meaning in context but I have no conception of spelling rules - I look solely at the single, individual letters and if pressed, would "guess" at how it sounds. Since I learn most new words through reading, it's a simple matter of remembering how it looked. While it's not a good example, it was years before I realized that "voila!" was the "wah-la!" that I had written down in stories previously.

 

I understand what you're saying, sort of - I do read pretty much strictly visually - but I have always looked at the letters rather than the shape of the word. Obviously my mind works oddly, though. :)

[patchfire]

Hi Merry,

 

I'm like the person you responded to. I don't really know how to spell. I just know if it looks right or not. To be honest, I mispronounce new words. I completely turned red when I mispronounced ancient in 5th grade class and then in college as a music major I was all ready to talk about Chopin which I had pronounced phonetically (should be Showpan). I have been eternally grateful that the teacher didn't call on me. I had heard of Chopin, but had never seen his name spelled only pronounced. I tell my boys to do what I do when I write a paper: I circle any word I'm not sure about and look it up. That said, since they do everything on the computer it corrects it for them. I'm starting to get concerned about essay tests as I am beginning to see problems on the tests I give them that they take on paper. I'm going to have to start taking off and providing them with a dictionary. But anyway, I'm all visual with spelling. It just doesn't look right!! I never learned phonics so knowing what the sound is just doesn't help. I was National Merit scholar!! Reading is my best subject. I just know what the word is. I've never ever sounded them out to my knowledge.

 

Christine

 

:iagree: Christine, you and I must have similarly strange minds! :D

[choirfarm]

I can easily figure out meaning in context but Since I learn most new words through reading, it's a simple matter of remembering how it looked. While it's not a good example, it was years before I realized that "voila!" was the "wah-la!" that I had written down in stories previously.

 

. :)

 

Hi fellow odd person!! You know it is funny because I don't really HEAR the words when I read. I just SEE what is happening. Does that make any sense?? I read VERY quickly. My mil gave me the latest Jan Karon book one Christmas and I sat on the couch and read it in an hour or so while everyone was watching football. She couldn't believe I had finished it. I do love to read aloud, but I put voices with all the characters and such. It is a drama.

Christine

[LibraryLover]

I would say those are good errors for a 6 yr old.

 

Not so good for a 13 or 33 yr old.

 

For a 6 yr old who has had limited experince with reading print on his own, I would advise you not to worry.

Edited September 30, 2009 by LibraryLover

[MerryAtHope]

Hi Merry,

 

I'm like the person you responded to. I don't really know how to spell. I just know if it looks right or not. To be honest, I mispronounce new words. I completely turned red when I mispronounced ancient in 5th grade class and then in college as a music major I was all ready to talk about Chopin which I had pronounced phonetically (should be Showpan). <snip> I've never ever sounded them out to my knowledge.

 

Christine

 

But didn't you sound out in order to mispronounce Chopin? That's why people say "chop-in" or "cho-pin." No amount of US phonics would get you to "show-pan." (You could get to "show" but not "pan!") Mispronouncing new words is not unusual, especially if the word is foreign. (I remember pronouncing Socrates, so-crates, LOL! I was simply sounding it out).

 

When you look up a word you don't know how to spell in the dictionary, how do you know where to look if you don't rely on sounds at all? When I look up a word (actually I'd try spellcheck first, it's faster, LOL!), I think what the most likely combination of letters is based on their sounds--and if it's not there, I try another combo. I think our reliance on sounds is so naturally integrated that we don't realize we're using it.

 

I look solely at the single, individual letters and if pressed, would "guess" at how it sounds.

 

So, if you see CH, do you know that they go together and say /CH/? Or that AW says /AW/? And do you draw upon that knowledge of sounds when trying out a new word?

 

Reading Reflex has an interesting little paragraph demonstrating how we draw on blending skills, slowing down to determine which letters work together to represent one sound & which stand alone, and how we might try a few different sounds to try to guess which one is correct:

 

"This gallimaufry is multitudinously gargantuan, puissantly capacious, and ineffably Junoesque and in consequence of such Protean tribulations and in such psychotic contravention of stereotypical consuetudinary hygiene, there exists infinitesimal exiguity of a satisfactory resolution to this cataclysmic dilemma."

 

(a modified Cat in the Hat).

 

Since I learn most new words through reading, it's a simple matter of remembering how it looked. While it's not a good example, it was years before I realized that "voila!" was the "wah-la!" that I had written down in stories previously.

 

I understand what you're saying, sort of - I do read pretty much strictly visually - but I have always looked at the letters rather than the shape of the word. Obviously my mind works oddly, though. :)

 

Actually it's good that you DON'T look at the shape of a word--that's something that some kids who have poor reading skills tend to do (can be common among dyslexics)--but it's a "purely visual" strategy, while considering letters and their sounds is part auditory.

 

Some we do memorize as purely visual--nothing in US phonics would get us to "wah-la" for voila! (Although some people would learn how to spell it by pronouncing for spelling--voy-la--an auditory strategy). But I think we do draw on a variety of skills whether we consciously realize it or not. For a word you don't know, getting to the right spelling in a dictionary or in Spell Check (where you have to at least guess close enough to be able to get Spell Check to give you the right word to choose) means we have to draw on some auditory knowledge.

 

Merry :-)