I Don't Know

[Impish]

Wolf asked me tonight, in a painful whisper, if he was obligated to his mother, to continuing a relationship with her. I told him that the only obligations he has are the ones he chooses. We talked briefly about his mother most likely having NPD (she has every.single.one. of the traits), and touched on the commandment to Honour thy Mother and Father. I know we'll talk more when he gets home. He's somewhere btwn dropping her off and returning home right now.

 

He looked so broken, so full of pain when he asked me if he was obligated to her. I just don't know how to help him in this, other than loving him, supporting him, and praying for him. I know I can't make this decision for him, that this is something only he can truly decide. I just wish he wasn't hurting so badly. :crying:

[Joanne]

Impish, I know we approach the world differently and don't "click". But, hear me out, k?

 

Have you and especially your husband done any reading and research on the effect of having lived in response to toxic and/or NPD persons? Have you or your DH gotten any professional support.

 

If your DH is a reader, any books by Townsend and Cloud on the topic of boundaries is good (and Christian).

 

The pain and crazy making of dealing with a boundarless NPD is not something I wish on anyone. I hope everyone touched by it finds healing.

 

{{hugs}}

[Impish]

Thank you for your response. I'll look into the authors you mentioned.

 

The NPD thing is something that I learned about coming here. Both of our mothers fit it like a glove, hows that for sucking? But mine never visits, and I only deal with her on the phone.

 

I see a psychologist to attempt to deal with having chronic pain, and I can discuss anything with him. I'm the only one my husband trusts to talk about these things. A blessing, in that his trust is a rare gift, and a curse, because I don't have all the answers. :(

[Corraleno]

Considering the way your MIL has treated Wolf from the moment she adopted him to the present day, I don't think he has ANY obligation to this woman. She did not fulfill ANY of her obligations to him as a mother, so why should he have the obligations of a son? The only thing she ever did for him was prevent him from being adopted by a family who might actually have wanted him.

 

Why should you and your children ~ the people Wolf truly loves and who love him ~ suffer by having this nasty, toxic person causing constant stress and drama in your lives? Why let the woman who ruined Wolf's childhood, ruin his family's lives as well? Wolf has a chance to break the cycle of craziness and abuse and to finally create for himself the kind of a warm, loving, supportive family that his mother deprived him of as a child ~ and his mother seems to be doing everything she can to disrupt, damage, and interfere with that.

 

I think he should tell his mother exactly how he feels, and what the boundaries are from this day forward ~ and then enforce them. And I say this as someone who grew up in an abusive home and who finally laid down the law with my own mother. I didn't speak to her for several years, and even now she has very limited access to my family. I will see her for a few days, every few years, when I visit my siblings. Several times in the last 10 years she has "announced" that she was coming to visit us, and I said absolutely not. I don't care what other people think; I'm not putting my family through the constant whining, criticism, and mega-drama that my mother brings with her.

 

The day I told my mother exactly how I felt, and what the new boundaries would be, I felt like a 100 lb weight had been lifted from my shoulders. The truth will set you free.

 

Jackie

[Carol in Cal.]

about dealing with your MIL, I would suggest one extra thing.

 

As much as you can, and as much as Wolf can, think about each other and about your children rather than about your mothers.

 

Every minute you spend thinking about them is a downer minute for you. And they are not around all that much, so you really don't have to spend your time and emotional energy contemplating them. When your thoughts drift 'there', consciously move them to your DH or your DC. I don't mean to squelch your issues with the moms, just to seriously try to avoid dwelling on them very much.

 

Overall, you will be happier for it, I believe.

[amy g.]

I can only speak from my own experience. I tried very hard to honor my mother, and was always the good kid, but when she started trying to make trouble in my marriage and between my kids. I cut her off.

 

I asked my priest who knew every member of my family about the scripture about honoring her when I was considering cutting her out of my life. He told me that protecting my children from her craziness would be, "absolutely heroic".

 

It has been almost 12 years since I have voluntarily had contact with her. she did stalk me for awhile, but the freedom to live in truth and health has been worth it.

 

I do not feel conflicted about my choice, but I have been so sad that it also hurt other members of my family. One cousin has been very close to my mom, and stayed at her house several nights a week, for years, when he traveled for work.

 

My mom would systematically tear down his wife behind her back, and was thrilled when they finally got divorced. She is so controlling, when he told her that he had met someone and was going to remarry, she said very damaging things about him in front of his children, telling them how he was abandoning them.

 

This weekend, he finally said, "No wonder you won't have anything to do with her, You made the right decision." I'm sad that he had to be hurt by her, but I'm glad to know he doesn't blame me anymore.

 

I try to look at hard choices like Wolf has to make like this. Is my action life-giving and edifying, or destructive and life-taking?

 

I see fighting, divorce, conflict between siblings and other family members, lying, and manipulating as being life-taking. Is God more glorified in the my continuing to take the abuse until my own family is in shambles, or in my happy marriage and emotionally healthy children?

 

I'm so sorry that he is in this horrible situation, but I'm very happy that he has such a smart and loving wife to turn to.

[Impish]

Thank you for your response, Jackie. I agree with everything you've said.

 

He's had it drilled into him as far back as he can remember that he owes her, he's obligated to her, that he HAS to take care of her.

 

I think it speaks a lot about our marriage, how safe and secure he feels that he's to the point of even thinking about breaking off with her. He does his darnedest to create boundries, but they are completely ignored. We've tried to go with the mindset that its only one month a year, she's elderly, etc etc etc. But he's at the end of his rope. His grandfather's passing rocked him, and rocked him hard. Harder, I think, than even he thought it would. Grandpa was the first person to ever love and accept him unconditionally.

 

Now he has me. I just wish I could solve this for him, tell him what to do and how, and guarantee him no negative feelings from it.

 

Of course nobody can. But I still wish I could. He takes care of me so much, esp now with my disability...I wish I could take care of this for him, take care of him for a change.

[WTMCassandra]

Impish, I sent you a pair of PMs. Hugs to you.

[Rosie_0801]

A bit less of the honour thy mother and father, and a bit more of cleaving to his wife (and family,) I rekon.

 

When it comes to family, I am more interested in social relationships than legal ones. It would be much healthier for him to interpret the "mother and father" scripture a little less literally. I don't know God's stance on legalities and paperwork, but it sounds like MIL is mother in paperwork only. Wolf probably wouldn't have got this far if he hadn't other models of parenthood in his experience. Honouring them would be a much better way of living that scripture. Who are other mother figures in his life, whether they mothered him, or whether they demonstrated valuable lessons on mothering to him. He didn't marry someone exactly like MIL, so there must have been some.

 

 

:grouphug:

Rosie

[EthiopianFood]

I'm sorry, what is NPD? From the sounds of it, my mom had it as well. :grouphug:

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I'm sorry, what is NPD? From the sounds of it, my mom had it as well. :grouphug:

narcissistic personality disorder

 

[Maria from IN]

Perhaps your husband can accompany you to one of your psychologist appointments. Granted, you did say that he doesn't trust many people, but is it possible he could trust someone whom you trust?

 

This may help him to hear advice about your situation from a counselor who can give him concrete ideas in dealing with her...it may also take the pressure off you a little bit--it must be difficult for you to say "whatever you think is best, dear" when every fiber of your being is screaming "please end all contact.":001_smile:

[Prudent]

I have BTDT.

 

My husband cut off his mother when we got married. She was a truly awful mother his entire life, and an overall toxic human being. From the time I met him I knew she was nothing but a hindrance and weight in his life. I never understood why he even allowed her in his life. When he married me, he saw the light (on his own!) and chose to cut her off.

 

For us, 'honoring your father & mother' means we chose not to think negative thoughts about MIL or speak ill of her. But that's it.

 

Have you noticed the often quoted scripture Christians use when they continue to allow their parents to manipulate and abuse them in adulthood is:

 

'Honor thy father and mother in the Lord, for this is right.' Ephesians 6:1

 

Our pastor teaches that 'in the Lord' means you honor the people who have served as a mentor, spiritual guide, and caring parental figure in your life. People who have been parents in the Lord to you. Not necessarily the people you are biologically connected to.

[Peela]

For us, 'honoring your father & mother' means we chose not to think negative thoughts about MIL or speak ill of her. But that's it.

 

 

 

I like that way of honouring.

 

Also, ultimately, I feel it IS honouring of her to not let her into your home, to cut her out. It is honouring of yourselves, of your children and the sanctity of your marriage and family. It is a healthy boundary to prevent a toxic person doing more damage to you. I honestly feel that when you do the right thing by yourselves, it will naturally be the right thing for her too- although she wont take it that way, that is her freedom and you cant take that freedom away from her. She is free to continue as she is or get help and change.

Its hard when you are in the middle of it, to see clearly. BTDT here too, with different people over the years. They use guilt to manipulate. Only your own conscience should dictate to you, your own heart, not someone else's manipulative personality.

Why are you less important than her? Why is she more important than your whole family?

Good luck with it, I know its not an easy one.

[mommaduck]

Another way of honouring your parents is by removing their stumbling blocks when you are in position to do so. In this case, no contact or very strong boundaries (that she will break anyhow) are ways of trying to prevent her from sinning against your family, or at least limiting how much she does. Then add that Wolf left her to cleave to you. He is responsible for his wife and children FIRST as far as human relations go. He would be dishonouring both his mother and you by letting her in, tearing him down, and walking all over you and the kids.

 

My MIL and her mother both have this same idea that if they are your mother (fathers don't count for some reason...on yeah, gender superiority, ugh!), then you have to bow and cow to every wish of their's. I played the good DIL. I'm now playing the better wife and mother ;)

[Night Elf]

I think sharing these posts with Wolf might help him. I know it's a terrible decision he's trying to make but I think he's doing it with a misunderstanding. I believe he can honor his mother without accepting abuse from her. He needs to be protective of his family first.

 

If he is going to be swayed by Ephesians 6:2 which is the verse about honoring thy father and mother, then he should also read the passages before that, specifically Ephesians 5:25-33 that talks about the relationship between husband and wife.

 

:grouphug:

[4kiddies]

Does you husband know that you share all of this online? Is he okay with that?

[Harriet Vane]

 

'Honor thy father and mother in the Lord, for this is right.' Ephesians 6:1

 

Our pastor teaches that 'in the Lord' means you honor the people who have served as a mentor, spiritual guide, and caring parental figure in your life. People who have been parents in the Lord to you. Not necessarily the people you are biologically connected to.

 

While I can embrace the general idea of honoring people in this way, I disagree with your pastor's interpretation.

 

This verse comes in the context of the original OT commands:

 

Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you.

Exodus 20:12, given as part of the Ten Commandments

 

Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God has commanded you, that your days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with you on the land which the Lord your God gives you.

Deuteronomy 5:16

 

I read the Ephesians verse, therefore, as a reflection of your own spiritual reality (not someone else's), and also as a reflection of God's specific instructions for you with regard to your parents.

 

Having said that, I have also come to believe for me personally, that the verses require me to speak politely and to provide for my parents' physical needs. I also believe that as a Christian I am bound to confront sin, to not aid or abet sin in any way, and to speak the truth in love. I have to find a way to act as a Christian but still honor my parents. For me this means that while I may speak the truth, I have to be careful to speak with love and without rudeness (much more easily said than done!!). For me this also means that I will always make sure my mother has food on her table, a roof over her head, and medical care. There are many ways to manage that, though, that don't require me to be in some dysfunctional, unhappy, codependent, personally destructive relationship with someone who is sick and does not know how to be otherwise.

[Impish]

My husband encourages me to discuss it online...if for no other reason than he gets a break from talking about 'heavy subjects' :lol:

 

He honestly hasn't had a mother figure, unless you count him living with a woman almost 20 yrs his senior when he was in his 20s, but that wasn't exactly a 'parenting' relationship :lol:

[WishboneDawn]

and touched on the commandment to Honour thy Mother and Father.

 

One thought...From all I've read here it really seems like you two CAN'T honour your mother while in a relationship with her. Her personality, actions, Wolf and your history with her - everything is tainted and works against any possibility of honouring what she has managed to do that's worthy of it.

 

It may be that your only hope of living up to that commandment is by letting her go, cutting ties and in time maybe even forgiving her.

[littlebug42]

I have had a difficult relationship with my father my entire life. I have been tempted to walk away from him so many times and have had to come to terms with so much in regards to him. I set some boundaries and we were able to have a relationship of sorts. He was never an active part of my daily life but I had to make peace with it all myself and until I did, it ate me up.

 

I am preparing today to bury my Dad as he died on Sunday. I an so glad that I forged ahead and did not walk away from him. In the end, we both made peace with many things. If Wolf struggles with this decision so much, I would hate for him to be in my position without having made some peace with his Mother.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

All I can say is, I know what you are going through. I've been dealing with this my whole life from my mother. She actually told me at one point that she did not have children for them to grow up and have their own lives, but so that she would have people to love her. I did see a counselor for a while, who tried to get me to set up boundaries, but my mom is like a Sherman Tank and just rolled right over those boundaries. It just doesn't work with some people. Most of my siblings have moved far away to limit the contact, but due to dh's job, we cannot really leave the area. I do feel sorry for her and her sisters. They are all so crazy. I really wonder what my grandparents did to them.

 

Anyway, I'm sorry your dh is struggling so much and I hope he does make the decision to cut her off. It will be painful, because these types of people know how to make you feel guilty and obligated and are very, very good at it. But, if he can make the break, it will be such a relief for you and your whole family.