Alicia64 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I need advice. In a nutshell. Father in law died 18 months ago. Left family home -- totally paid off -- to 3 kids (one is dh). Sister is the executor. Dh has been very quiet, polite for 18 months. Finally drove 2 hrs. to visit w/ her and in his vague, polite way, "let's get this house sold and divvy the $." Sister basically said, "oh no, we're on the 12 year plan!" So my husband emailed her last week and said that he'd like to bought out. Then only the sister and the other brother would own the house. Dh would be out of it. We waited one week and heard nothing. One week to the day, she emailed (without being prompted) and said "they'd made progress on emptying the attic." No mention of getting the house appraised, talking to a lender etc. etc. I want to scream. Meanwhile the brother and sister are living -- rent free -- in the house. We have kids, we'd love to pay off our mortgage. My husband is gearing up to be more specific with the sister I hope. But he's an engineer type. He avoids, doesn't like conflict etc. Without going into detail, our life is changing and my husband is motivated to push the sister. She's doing several things an executor isn't allowed to do: like she never made any inventory of the items in the home and has actually given stuff away to other relatives. Any advice?? Thoughts?? I particularly would love to hear from people who've dealt with estates/executors/trustees etc. Thank you!! And thanks for letting me vent! :mad: Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keptwoman Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I have no advice. What an awful situation. How absolutely rude and unacceptable that the money that could help you pay your mortgage is out of your reach while the others live rent free in the house. Perhaps you could tell them you are moving in too :rofl: I hope you are able to get it resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I guess that depends upon how much your hubby wants to rock the boat. Are there steps he could take? Sure. Is it worth virtually terminating his relationship with his sister? Probably not. Can he be more assertive and push her a bit more without sacrificing that relationship? Probably. Would it help matters for you to be in the middle? Probably not. Sorry, I'm not much help. I come from a family split between "avoiders" (most of which are also engineers, lol) and "confronters." It's not easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 No, I'm totally staying out of the middle. I won't say a word to anyone except dh. Dh sees his sister, maybe, once every two years for two whole hours. She's ten years older than he is and they've never been close. I sort of look at it like the sister is making the choice to make this situation so confrontational. Dh is pretty much being left no choice (unless he wants to give up mortgage money which I know he won't. Engineer types aren't dumb.) Thank you, Kept and Mrs., I think it's awful too and dh is showing no emotion at all about it. At this point, dh is saying, "oh, she's procrastinating." And I'm like, "this goes way beyond procrastinating. You're getting in the way of her plan and she's puposely thwarting you and making it look benign." I need a glass of wine!! And, yes, I do keep in mind that families have much bigger problems than this!! Thanks again, Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2GirlsTX Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) I would suggest (very strongly) that you make an appointment with a probate or estate attorney, someone who specializes in wills/probate etc. You need legal advice, and an executors job is to follow the wishes of the deceased. If the property was to be evenly split, she is just delaying... First of all, if this property is divided into 1/3, then your husband owns one third of the house they are living in rent free. They should be paying him rent for his portion. Remember, you need a lawyer, don't do this by yourself. If their is enough to pay off a mortgage, all the more so to seek qualified legal representation. The more they delay the worse this mess is going to get: Please read the following: http://www.ca-trusts.com/probatefaq.html Edited August 21, 2009 by Mom2GirlsTX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMA Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I was the administrator of an estate. Every executor is bonded beyond the value of the estate. It is required by the courts to be an executor or administrator. Part of the responsibility is to make an accounting of all assets and submit it to a commissioner of accounts on a regular basis. Contact the bonding agency and the commissioner of accouhnts. They will check on her and if she is actually improperly distributing the estate, they will deal with it. (If she is on the 12-year plan, she will have to pay the bonding insurance every year.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 It seems to me that the estate pays all the expenses of the executor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 Thank you so much for this advice. Do you have ballpark on what a lawyer like this would charge. It's totally frustrating that we have to pay what I assume is big lawyer money to get this woman to do her job. Is there any chance this the lawyer money would come out of her portion? Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMA Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 It seems to me that the estate pays all the expenses of the executor. Yes, that's what I meant. She is responsible for the expenses and the distribution of the estate. She must make an accounting of all expenses and income to the commissioner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I heard a situation like this on Dave Ramsey's show. He told them they could force the sale of the house. I don't know much more than that. Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2GirlsTX Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) Alicia, pick up the phone and call some estate attorneys tomorrow. Many lawyers will offer you some general advice for free over the phone. Your sister in law is stalling, I have been an executor and her actions do not appear to be in the best interest of the estate. They appear to be in her best interest (free living). 18 months have gone by? That is execessive. Your husband can force the sale of the house. You need a lawyer and even if the lawyer cost a chunk of change, you could possibly ask the court to collect your costs from her from the execessive delay or her not acting in good faith. Your husband deserves money for each month they use his portion of the house. I'm not a lawyer, but I've dealt with a similar mess...get professional help and it is not nearly as expensive as you think. It will also help you get on with your lives. Peace be with you. Edited August 21, 2009 by Mom2GirlsTX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 to push her more informally. Maybe your DH should email her and ask what the hold up is. If they are emptying the attic, he could offer to help. If they are getting the house fixed up for sale, maybe he could pitch in. My guess is that with the real estate market down in so many places, they might just feel like they will be selling low. But maybe he could address that directly, sell his 1/3 to them at what it's worth now, and if they want to hold on and sell in another year or so, great - that can take that profit. As for stuff in the house being given away, that is definitely a violation. BUT that's one reason why making a daughter an executor is problematic. Family members ask for tokens that seem important to them, and the survivor has a hard time saying "no." I'm trying to think about what it would be like to inventory every item in my parents home. All I can say is that it would be an awful, awful job and unless I were getting paid by the hour, it would happen when it happened. But maybe your DH needs to just be honest about that. "I really want it done. Do you need help? Do we need to pay for help out of the estate? What needs to happen?" I would really push that way first, because being estranged from siblings after a parent's death is hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2GirlsTX Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Danestress, I agree about talking first, your advice is very sound. Let me clarify why I am really pushing talking to legal help so that Alicia and her husband know legally where they stand. I know it is always best to try and work things out with legal means, but knowledge is power. If her husband knows legally what his sister should be doing, what his rights are, he can more effectively talk to her and reason with her to comply to his needs. So Alicia, to be clear in what I am saying, talk to the lawyer (or several). Get your facts in a row and find out what you can and can't do. Then have your husband talk to his sister without mentioning the lawyer. There is no reason to have a lawyer take action if your husband can motivate his sister to action otherwise. So get professional advice, assimilate it, and have your husband try and get his sister to do what needs to be done in a family friendly way. If she refuses and sticks with her 12 year plan, he will need legal help but at least he knows he tried to work it out with her first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Is your husband willing to do any of the work? I mean it is a big job going through a house that has an accumulation of decades of stuff. If his siblings are working then they are having to do it during nights and weekends. Plus dealing with the depression that can happen when dealing with clearing out someone else's stuff. Were the siblings the caregivers too? You might think 18 months is enough time, but .... well it might not be. But it is always good to get some legal advice to find out where you stand and if indeed the sister is not doing the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMA Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Call the bonding agency first. She is legally responsible be carrying out the will and estate issues. You don't need an attorney at this stage. If she is improper, the bonding agency will step in because they are insuring her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Alicia, pick up the phone and call some estate attorneys tomorrow. Many lawyers will offer you some general advice for free over the phone. Your sister in law is stalling, I have been an executor and her actions do not appear to be in the best interest of the estate. They appear to be in her best interest (free living). 18 months have gone by? That is execessive. Your husband can force the sale of the house. You need a lawyer and even if the lawyer cost a chunk of change, you could possibly ask the court to collect your costs from her from the execessive delay or her not acting in good faith. Your husband deserves money for each month they use his portion of the house. I'm not a lawyer, but I've dealt with a similar mess...get professional help and it is not nearly as expensive as you think. It will also help you get on with your lives. Peace be with you. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiCO Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I was the administrator of an estate. Every executor is bonded beyond the value of the estate. It is required by the courts to be an executor or administrator. Part of the responsibility is to make an accounting of all assets and submit it to a commissioner of accounts on a regular basis. Contact the bonding agency and the commissioner of accouhnts. They will check on her and if she is actually improperly distributing the estate, they will deal with it. (If she is on the 12-year plan, she will have to pay the bonding insurance every year.) I was executor for my mother, and I was not bonded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 If you want to take a step before calling a lawyer, is it possible for your husband to take time off work? Perhaps he could call and say something like, "I am scheduling a week's vacation time to come and help you clear out the house. Will you be ready on XX date? If not, I am afraid I will have to take action to relieve myself of the potential liability on the home." You are looking at the $ you will receive from the sale of the home. But if a tornado comes along, or the house burns down, or something else happens, the gain is lost. Also, if anything happens on the property that results in legal action against the homeowner, is it possible your dh would be held liable as an heir? Time to be done with this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2GirlsTX Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I was executor for my mother, and I was not bonded. Me too. Bonding requirements depends on the State you live in, whether the executor is out of state, etc and also some write into their wills that bonding is not necessary. I was not required to be bonded either when I was an executor of an estate. The sister in law may or may not have been required to be bonded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 If dh is serious (and I am married to an engineer too, so I totally feel ya there), then he should tell sister that he is hiring a lawyer and forcing the sale. My dad went through this with one of his brothers after his dad died. My dad lives there on the land and the other siblings don't. His brother could have forced the sale, so my dad and one of his sisters bought my uncle's land and split the cost. Uncle was then out of the deal. They ignored him until he threatened to force the sale...then their little ears perked up. Forced sales are not pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2GirlsTX Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Time to be done with this! :iagree: Definitely time to be done with this, everyone needs to move forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 Thanks again, everyone. It's just nice to know that my anger at this point is justified. I went along w/ the let's be polite thing for 18 months, but now that dh has specifically made a request to her and she's ignoring him, I'm boiling. Thanks again, Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 I'll just bore you for one more minute: the sister/brother team has been very clear that they don't want to sell the house for at least two more years. So offering to help clean/paint etc. is beside the point. And I know these people. Their 2 year plan will devolve into 8 to 10 yrs. If it's even sold then. Dh asked to be bought out and we thought she understood the road he wanted to take. But all she did was clean out the attic. And she's behaving like, "what?! There has been progress -- look at the attick!" I really appreciate everyone on here so much. I know my dh will read this -- he has a lot of respect for independent thinking home schoolers!! Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I guess that depends upon how much your hubby wants to rock the boat. Are there steps he could take? Sure. Is it worth virtually terminating his relationship with his sister? Probably not. Can he be more assertive and push her a bit more without sacrificing that relationship? Probably. Would it help matters for you to be in the middle? Probably not. Sorry, I'm not much help. I come from a family split between "avoiders" (most of which are also engineers, lol) and "confronters." It's not easy. :iagree: My advice is for y'all to let this cool off... I was in the same situation with my 3 sisters and my mother's estate leaving us the home (paid off) with no debts. Things did not go well. I ended up walking away from the situation and not asking for any $$$ or part of the house. My other sister fought with the other sister -- mistake made with refi the house -- and they lost the home. It was a mess. I stayed out of it. 18 years later, my 2 sisters still do not speak to each other due to the incident. Do the relatives need the home to live in? If so, then hire a lawyer to write up an agreement. But be warned -- it will stir up bad feelings over $$$. Act wisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I understand the kind advice given to forgo the home and just walk away to avoid confrontation. This would certainly be the "be the bigger person" option if it only meant giving up the proceeds. But there is still the issue of liability. And if sister stays in the home until it needs a new roof, will she then ask each sibling to pony up his share of the cost? Who has paid the annual property taxes? Do it as nicely as possible, but really, get out from under this now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I understand the kind advice given to forgo the home and just walk away to avoid confrontation. This would certainly be the "be the bigger person" option if it only meant giving up the proceeds. But there is still the issue of liability. I believe you misunderstood my post... I am not advising the OP to walk away. I shared what happened to my family. I could have made a stink and hired a lawyer for my share -- but I didn't -- and chose to walk away. We spent close to $3k getting the home/estate out of probate and dealt with funeral costs, etc. Sisters never helped. Just lived free in the home and got into trouble with the law. I chose to get out of the toxic mess and walk away. I'm glad I did. $$$ is not always the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Oh, Tex-Mex, I did not respond specifically to what you said (at least I didn't mean to!). I am sorry you were stuck with that, I'm sure it caused a lot of heartache for you. Actually, it would be honorable to be patient, kind, forgiving... and I'm sure anyone dealing with things like this would really just want everyone to cooperate with each other. I just believe that a liability exists and that it would be in the OP's best interest to liquidate dh's stake in the home. Since it does not appear that his sister has any intention of helping him to do that, he needs to get the ball rolling. As always, just my pair o'pennies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingM Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 What is the going rate for rent in this area? Say it's 1,000/month for a house of that size. You are currently owed $6,000 for your share of rent for 18 months. I'm pretty sure any court of law would see it that way. After ten years, they would owe you $40,000, plus inflationary increases, plus interest. You could always wait a few years, then take them to court, and you'll own the whole house. I wouldn't actually do this, of course, but I think I might mention this possible course of action to my deadbeat sisters to get them moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I went through a horrible estate mess with my mom's estate. My brother (an engineer) was a complete bastard about every little detail. We were independent co-executors...which I took to mean our mom wanted us to work in tandem to settle her very (very!) small estate. My mom had also taken the time a few weeks before her death to tell me what she wanted done. Unfortunately, she didn't have the strength to tell my brother. The short story is that I wanted to do what she intended, he wanted to punish some people in her life and used the law and her will to do it. (Complicated story.) The upshot is I no longer have a brother. For seven years, we did not have any contact at all. Finally one day he came and apologized, but it is clear in the last five years that he wants no relationship to me anymore. Here is my point...if the sister is not respecting your dh wishes, then there is already a problem with their relationship. If money (in whatever form it takes - such as free rent) is more important than him, he has nothing to lose. It's time to talk to a lawyer and get the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Oh, Tex-Mex, I did not respond specifically to what you said (at least I didn't mean to!). I am sorry you were stuck with that, I'm sure it caused a lot of heartache for you. Actually, it would be honorable to be patient, kind, forgiving... and I'm sure anyone dealing with things like this would really just want everyone to cooperate with each other. I just believe that a liability exists and that it would be in the OP's best interest to liquidate dh's stake in the home. Since it does not appear that his sister has any intention of helping him to do that, he needs to get the ball rolling. As always, just my pair o'pennies. LOL... no problem! :001_smile: I agree something should be done. But tread cautiously -- this could cause a huge rift in the family. My sisters had so many relatives in uproar over their behavior. I just hate to see siblings fight over money. And yes, liability is an issue. Another concern is the slow housing market -- the house may not sell for a long time? And how much $$$ are the siblings willing to put into the home to get a buyer? JMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 This has been a very eye-opening discussion for me. In my family (probably pretty representative of my culture, too) there are usually not multiple heirs to a single property. It usually goes to the eldest, or most needy. I'm neither the eldest, nor the most needy so I used to think it kinda stunk that I was going to be passed over for the family house (my sister) and the vacation house (my brother). I'm sort of thinking that I would rather be skipped over than be put in the awkward position of opposing my siblings. I'm finally seeing a certain wisdom to a parent bequething something of significant value to a single heir. I have a sudden urge to call my parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keptwoman Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 This has been a very eye-opening discussion for me. In my family (probably pretty representative of my culture, too) there are usually not multiple heirs to a single property. It usually goes to the eldest, or most needy. I'm neither the eldest, nor the most needy so I used to think it kinda stunk that I was going to be passed over for the family house (my sister) and the vacation house (my brother). I'm sort of thinking that I would rather be skipped over than be put in the awkward position of opposing my siblings. I'm finally seeing a certain wisdom to a parent bequething something of significant value to a single heir. I have a sudden urge to call my parents. I think this says more about having the heirs to the estate as executors. My brother and I jointly inherited my Mum and Dads house. DH and I paid the estate rent to live in it until we bought my brother out. No fuss, no bickering, no estrangement. My uncle was the executor and he sorted it all out for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 Right, there should be no fuss. A good executor liquidates the estate, passes out checks. That's it. It shouldn't get ugly. I think walking away is wrong because it's allowing someone to flat out steal money from us and our children. This money is going for their college and our retirement. (Nobody is going to Hawaii on the money or putting in new kitchen.) In any case, I just think it's unethical to pull this sort of thing and I think it would be wrong to just walk away and allow someone to do this. I know my dh would feel like he'd been trampled on the rest of his life. I really do appreciate your time. It means a lot. Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in the Kootenays Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 A good friend was in a similar situation. It required a lawyer and ended the relationship with the other sibling. In her opinion, it needed to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlockOfSillies Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 First of all, if this property is divided into 1/3, then your husband owns one third of the house they are living in rent free. They should be paying him rent for his portion. This is exactly what my engineer dh (who is no shrinking violet) says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonshine Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 A couple of points - it appears that they have very little intention of ever selling the home. Why should they - they have a free place to stay with the estate even paying taxes, repairs, etc. If they have handled the house and its content this way, there may be other estate assets they are bleeding dry for their own benefit. It is very unlikely you would ever be able to collect on money spent. The house may be depreciating in the meantime, lowering your inheritance. If your husband and the sister had been close, I would hesitate. However, it doesn't sound like they have much of a relationship to damage, although I know family is still family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cera Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 How many expenses are they charging to the estate (thereby lowering your inheritance)? I would not be surprised if they were charging electricity, taxes, etc as necessary expenses. In situations like this I am a big fan of deciding what you want and telling people explicitly. Why not decide how much longer you are willing to wait for the house to be listed (1 month, 2 months...summer is the best selling season) and then let her know. You can give her the timeline and tell her you expect that the house will be listed and they will be actively pursuing buyers (or buy you out) by xxx or you will be required to contact an attorney and begin the process to force a sale. Also, make sure to keep all correspondence so you can prove you made a good faith effort to work with her if she fights it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingM Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 This money is going for their college and our retirement. (Nobody is going to Hawaii on the money or putting in new kitchen.) New kitchen, Hawaii, blowing it on a single spin of the roulette wheel, or even turning it all over to a charismatic cult leader...it doesn't matter because the money is yours to use as you see fit. My point is that you don't need to be apologetic about your use of the money or to try to convince your husband's family that you somehow need it more than they do. It belongs to you and they are stealing from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I would suggest (very strongly) that you make an appointment with a probate or estate attorney, someone who specializes in wills/probate etc. You need legal advice, and an executors job is to follow the wishes of the deceased. If the property was to be evenly split, she is just delaying... First of all, if this property is divided into 1/3, then your husband owns one third of the house they are living in rent free. They should be paying him rent for his portion. Remember, you need a lawyer, don't do this by yourself. If their is enough to pay off a mortgage, all the more so to seek qualified legal representation. The more they delay the worse this mess is going to get: Please read the following: http://www.ca-trusts.com/probatefaq.html Yes. This exactly. We are probably going to be in this situation very soon as well. Some folks just need a fire lit under them and unfortunately being nice and patient just doesn't work. Attorneys can get the ball rolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkpan Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 New kitchen, Hawaii, blowing it on a single spin of the roulette wheel, or even turning it all over to a charismatic cult leader...it doesn't matter because the money is yours to use as you see fit. My point is that you don't need to be apologetic about your use of the money or to try to convince your husband's family that you somehow need it more than they do. It belongs to you and they are stealing from you. I agree that you dont need to justify what your dhs share of his inheritance is for, but I would hesitate greatly on accusing his siblings of stealing! An executor has the responsibility of ensuring that an estate is handled and distributed according to the deceased wishes and in a prudent fashion. This could easily be simply a difference of opinion. Lets face it, it is NOT a good time to sell a house. So, the OPs dh may need the money more immediately (or not) than his siblings do, which would cause a difference of opinion on when the house is put up for sale. I can totally see the other potential viewpoints of the siblings who could be feeling that they will LOSE a great deal of money if the house is sold in a down market. The point is, to paint them as villains will probably not help your dh to accomplish his goals while preserving his family. So, rather than allowing your frustration over not getting a quick settlement destroy his family ties, you may want to keep more of a distance and allow your dh to interact with his sibling according to HIS timetable. I think the idea of dh taking time off to HELP his siblings to clear our dads house is an excellent one. There can be an enormous amount of work involved in that (and perhaps he could avoid their hard feelings if they are left to do all the work). While there, he could have some serious, heart-felt conversations with his siblings, trying to understand their perspective. (They might have good reasons for the delay). Then, if the siblings want to wait to sell, then it would be very reasonable for dh to suggest a fair rental settlement until they MUTUALLY agree to sell. Or, he can then inform siblings that he is going to force the sale of the home which means that the court comes in, auctions off the house with generally a huge loss, and everyone will be unhappy. HTH! Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkpan Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Yes. This exactly. We are probably going to be in this situation very soon as well. Some folks just need a fire lit under them and unfortunately being nice and patient just doesn't work. Attorneys can get the ball rolling. This is exactly how families are often quickly destroyed by money.:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 Thanks again everyone. I didn't want to leave anyone w/ the idea that we'd be accusing the sister of stealing. It just helps us realize what's happening while we politely wait. Secondly, whether economically it's a good, bad, or ugly time to sell isn't the point at all. If one person wants to be bought out or sell (after 18 mo.) that person needs to be respected and dealt with accordingly. The sister and brother can't simply determine that it's not the economic time. It's not up to them. It seems clear that the sister/brother have no intention of selling anytime within the next three to five years. And the idea of my husband having a "heart to heart" with anyone (but maybe me) is funny. He's just not the type. He'd work hard cleaning the attic, but he wouldn't have a heart to heart. It would be more stalling on the sister/brother's part. I should have said from the start of this thread: one of the reasons we've waited 18 mo. is that we're trying very hard to not have any family problems. We're treading lightly, but since the sister is in outright avoidance-mode at this point, I was just wondering what we should do next if "it comes to the worst." But for now, we're still trying to be kind and polite. I don't want you to think otherwise. Thanks again for this wonderful, supportive thread. Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Okay, I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment. If you look at the situation from their side. First was it dictated that the house was to be sold or simply left equally to the three parties? They may be sitting back feeling they are being pressured from little brother to sell what it now "their" home and in their minds 18 months may not be a long time to deal with the grief and the stress of letting go and moving on. They may feel he is just in it for the money and not really see all the freebies they are receiving. IMO any pressing of the issue is going to cause conflict, which may be just what is necessary so all three of them will have resolution. I agree a buy-out may be your best option as that will leave them free to do as they wish and your dh won't be the bad guy that forced them to sell their family home. Unfortunately that make take legal action and one (or both) of the siblings taking out a loan on the house. I can't see them being in a rush to do that unless they were legally forced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 This is exactly how families are often quickly destroyed by money.:( Unfortunate but true. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacie Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 The comment on the 12 year plan is clearly a passive-aggressive response as a means to justify their behavior. If I were your husband, I'd respond back in a similar manner. If he doesn't feel comfortable with a heart-to-heart talk perhaps a quip about changing it to a 12 month plan or hiring an attorney, with a big fake smile but serious eyes. That could at least plant the seed with the sister and he could follow it up with a more serious discussion in a few days. This sounds like it could get messy if it's not handled quickly. There's no need for resentment to build up over years while waiting on someone else to make a move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlockOfSillies Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 True, but 18 mos. ago was a great time to sell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 My advie would be to get a lawyer or just stay out of it. I am sure getting dh share would be nice but it seems like it's going to be a long exhausting battle for many, many years. If there is anything he wants from the house he should just go get it. My sil's pulled up u-hauls to the house hours after the mil funeral. Seemed harsh and cold at the time but it was actually a good thing to get the house cleaned and done with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) It's very difficult emotionally to go through family things after a death. I don't justify their actions, but I do understand them. It might take them a while to steel themselves for the job. And did they do more than their share of caring for the deceased? And are they doing all the sorting? Sometimes, often actually, that leads to a sense of entitlement. It sounds to me like the 12 year plan was a joke, not really a plan, they are poking fun at themselves for being kind of ineffective, but really expecting your DH to cut them a fair amount of slack under the circumstances. I would approach it this way: 1. Does DH want any of the keepsakes? If so, he should go and get them. If not, he should say so. 2. Does the house have insurance? That is CRUCIAL. And, actually, having someone living there might be making it more secure as well. 3. Are you getting an accounting of estate costs regularly? If they are spending estate money on their living expenses, that's not right and your DH should receive an accounting of that and be reimbursed for it in the final settling up. 4. Were estate taxes due and paid on schedule? (I think that that is supposed to take place 9 months after the death, but I am not sure.) 5. Are you in contact with the estate attorney yourself, and do you know what his guidance would be? Were the brother and sister awarded a life interest in the home? After finding all that out, I would consider the longterm results of ANY action and then decide what to do. Will there always be a rift between them if DH pushes the issue or if they don't get moving and take care of things? Do they have enough resources to pay for his share of the house at this point? Can DH argue that it's in their best interests to get this mortgage in place now while interest rates are still so low? Edited August 21, 2009 by Carol in Cal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I would suggest (very strongly) that you make an appointment with a probate or estate attorney, someone who specializes in wills/probate etc. You need legal advice, and an executors job is to follow the wishes of the deceased. If the property was to be evenly split, she is just delaying... First of all, if this property is divided into 1/3, then your husband owns one third of the house they are living in rent free. They should be paying him rent for his portion. Remember, you need a lawyer, don't do this by yourself. If their is enough to pay off a mortgage, all the more so to seek qualified legal representation. The more they delay the worse this mess is going to get: Please read the following: http://www.ca-trusts.com/probatefaq.html This attorney in Iowa shouts a resounding yes!!! Please do not wait and follow this advice. I am sorry that your dh sibs are being ....obstinate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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