Do these things bother you in a church?

[KristineIN]

We joined forces with another congregation, we had the pastor they had the building. Two families (out of about 20 total) are now upset over a few things.

 

These are the main things:

The church already had a daycare, they don't want a church that has a daycare and don't want the church to advertise about the daycare.

 

We are planning a Resurrection Celebration for Easter and most people want to have an Easter Egg Hunt for the kids, they are upset saying it's a "pagan" ritual.

 

We are trying to decide what to do about Sunday School and this family does not want to see it offered. They feel the fathers should be doing this instruction at home, yet the church that we joined is mainly new Christians and some do not feel they are capable of this yet.

 

There will be a church meeting to discuss the daycare and Sunday School at some point, but Easter is fast approaching and I think the egg hunt is still in the plans. Anyway, I'm just wondering if this is stuff that would REALLY bother your family. Or is it something that isn't as big of a deal that it seems to be. We are flexible and are excited with all that's happening, dh has tried to talk to this family some, but the response was, "we don't have to keep everyone happy, we don't need to be like every other church" We aren't trying to be, the daycare is helping to pay the bills right now from some debt that the church had when the pastor quit (actually no one knew about it until he quit, he told them the bills were being paid, when actually there wasn't any money to pay much of anything) Anyway, I'm just wondering what others view about these things in church.

I really don't want this to be a debate, I'm really curious, why this is such a big deal. We like to think the daycare is a great ministry opportunity and we would rather see these children in a Christian daycare than in who knows where. (of course this one young dad who doesn't want it said "that's every church's excuse.") We've had quite a few single moms in our church over the years and so to say that everyone should be home with their kids, yes that's what most of us would like to see, but it's not always the case and doesn't always happen.

Kristine

[Whisperlily]

Not everything has to be addressed from the get-go.

 

I would personally be fine with an easter egg hunt, as long as the "message" wasn't "Easter Bunny is Easter" BUT I completely understand the other people's point of view, and how it could be a legitimate issue. I don't think that this is something that should be pushed if there are those in genuine disagreement.

 

The daycare sounds like people being petty, snobby or image conscious. "We don't like the daycare here, get rid of it." It's an established business and a non-theological issue. If it were struggling, not making ends meet then it would be a different kind of issue. As it is, it sounds like one group wants to get rid of the other group's identifying marks... taking over instead of blending.

 

If some want Sunday School and others don't... who says those who prefer teaching at home are required to attend? Those who feel the desire can be blessed by this ministry.

 

And, err.. just because I'm curious, not judging...how can attending a Sunday School *take away* from fathers teaching at home. Wouldn't it ADD to their resources?

[KristineIN]

 

And, err.. just because I'm curious, not judging...how can attending a Sunday School *take away* from fathers teaching at home. Wouldn't it ADD to their resources?

 

 

Oh I don't think having a Sunday School is bad and can "take away" from a father's teaching, I think that it should ADD to it, this family thinks Sunday School is bad and that father's should be doing the teaching at home, dh and I said to each other that not everyone is capable of that and not everyone is the church has a male figure in the household. Did I word it wrong, guess I should reread my post.

I think a Sunday School can be very good, I am just saying that we've been without one for so long, that I could go either way, to have it or not.

Kristine

[Unicorn.]

Yep, it would bother me. One, the daycare was already there, so objections should have been made before agreeing to merge. 2nd, if the majority want an egghunt for the kids, they can just choose not to participate. They should have voiced concerns before agreeing to combine the two churches.

 

Forgot to say that as far as the Sunday School thing- I really don't understand why a church wouldn't offer it, unless there just weren't enough kids to have classes.

[Whisperlily]

I feel the same way you do, I was just hoping to get some insight into how the opposed-to-Sunday School crowd came up with their justification. Couldn't they just teach before Sunday School? Don't know how hearing instruction from a Sunday School teacher would be different than attending a worship service and having a Pastor give instruction. *scratching head*

 

They must have some line of reasoning... otherwise they're just trying to create strife. *shrug*

[KristineIN]

I feel the same way you do, I was just hoping to get some insight into how the opposed-to-Sunday School crowd came up with their justification. Couldn't they just teach before Sunday School? Don't know how hearing instruction from a Sunday School teacher would be different than attending a worship service and having a Pastor give instruction. *scratching head*

 

They must have some line of reasoning... otherwise they're just trying to create strife. *shrug*

 

I know, it should be interesting. As far as merging, really the pastor had the deciding, not everyone has to remain in the church, all of us (I think except maybe this family) was excited to have a new opportunity. We had been meeting at a VFW for a few months and this same family quit coming because they didn't like the smell, we met someplace else for a while one summer and they thought it was "creepy" and refused to come there too, and the places we were meeting were free, or we just had to clean in them. Our pastor is just trying to keep everyone happy, which I can understand, but when the majority wants one thing and you have basically one person saying they don't, it's kind of hard.... This guy even was trying to tell my dh how to run the sound/words for music after dh found out the best way for HIM to do it. I think some people aren't happy with anything.

 

Kristine

[Whisperlily]

If it's just one family, let them go elsewhere. Any time I've met a family like this in a church, they're NEVER happy with any church. Usually they bounce around every "so many years" often leaving some sort of split, or at least irritation in their wake.

 

Do not let one person rule the majority.

[beansprouts]

The fathers and mothers need discipleship and encouragement so they can go home and be spiritual leaders for their families. Small groups are where the *real* spiritual growth takes place IMO. While the adults are in their Sunday School classes it only makes sense to have something age-appropriate for their children. ;)

 

Our church does an Easter Egg hunt, and we bring in a lot of members from the community. The event begins with a storytime where kids and their parents get to hear the gospel.

[forty-two]

The reason I've heard for being against Sunday School is that most parents feel that completely discharges their obligation to raise their children in the faith - they brought their kids to church and Sunday School, what more do you expect from them? They don't see any need to actually teach their kids themselves if they believe the teaching is occurring elsewhere. The idea behind getting rid of Sunday School is to take away that excuse, with the idea that one hour per week with comparative strangers is so far from sufficient that taking it away really doesn't hurt much, as its influence was very small to begin with.

 

IMO, there is nothing inherently wrong with Sunday School, but I must admit, I am leery about Sunday School at times, for much of the same reasons that I am not a fan of public schools. I could see the many new Christians in your church, who are so convinced they could never teach their kids, will never feel like they need to learn how if Sunday School is there as a constant crutch.

[Janet in WA]

There was a time I might have been more bothered by these kinds of things. But now that I'm old and gray, I've had a lot of experiences in a lot of churches. And truthfully, if those are the biggest problems you're having with two churches merging, you're doing really well. Pray with and for those families, and hang in there. It will all work out.

[Kelli in TN]

Sounds to me like the church is no longer a good fit for the family. And that is okay. As churches change leadership and grow, and as people change and grow, sometimes a dearly beloved church is no longer meeting the needs of a particular family. I used to think that changing churches was terrible and every time we did I was consumed with guilt. But I don't feel that way anymore. I am called to worship and serve where I am today and if tomorrow it is apparent that I need to move on it is okay. God has that under control.

 

The family is not right or wrong, they are just different in what they value and that is okay. It is not okay to try to force their way of thinking on a congregation that feels differently. They probably just need to move on.

[SparrowsNest]

Two families (out of about 20 total) are now upset over a few things.

 

 

Two families should not set the agenda for the 20. The two families should raise their concerns and then submit peacefully (without complaint) to the decision of the leadership or else find a new church home. If these issues are deal-breakers for those two families, they will probably be happier at a church that jives more with their views.

 

My personal opinion (as a Reformed Christian attending a PCA church):

 

I love easter Egg hunts.

 

I agree that daycare (if indeed it is true daycare, although I have nothing against a mother's morning out type program) is not ideal, but that should've been worked out prior to the merge.

 

I think Sunday School is terrific. We believe that all of God's people are in a covenantal relationship and share in the responsibility for the education of covenant children. Obviously this falls primarily on the father and the family, but it is also part of the responsibility of the body of believers. Just because something *can* be abused is not a compelling reason to eradicate it completely.

[Tess in the Burbs]

We do not personally do any of the Easter worldly stuff like baskets and egg hunts. My mom will make the kids go look for eggs if we go to her house but it's not something we as a family ever do on our own.

 

We have gone to several churches over the years that we loved...and then come Easter they have a dreaded egg hunt. I personally think they do it to get people in the door at Easter to present the real meaning of the season.

 

We just choose to not participate. But it could be a way to bring new people to the church. so as a merging congregation you aren't going to agree....just let people opt not to help/participate without hard feelings.

 

it's interesting.....we are currently in a new church with a pastor in search of a building and I hear we may merge with another church who has a building but no pastor.....your experience has opened my eyes to the potential problems....and honestly we may go find a different church to avoid all the mess!

[Lakeside]

Is the Sunday School program for children only, or is it a church-wide program?

 

Shannon

[mcconnellboys]

If you have only 10% of the congregation that wants to do something completely different, I think that the majority should rule. I'm very moderate, maybe even liberal in many of my religious beliefs, so I would not have a problem with any of these things.

 

Daycares provide (hopefully) a safe environment for children whose parents must work. Some may have no family and perhaps can not afford a nanny, etc. to keep these children at home. This is also an opportunity for your church to provide outreach to both these little children and to their parents. So I would consider this a mission.

 

Yes, there are many things about Easter than can be considered pagan, including the name. Do you worship pagan gods when you hunt eggs? do you teach pagan beliefs in connection with your egg hunt? If you do not, then it's only what it appears to be - a fun tradition for the children. You can find as many Christian stories relating eggs to that tradition as you can to any other traditions. If you're not teaching paganism, then there's no harm done. And I'm not trying to slight anyone here who's pagan, either, I'm just speaking from the standpoint of what a Christian church's perspective on this might be. Those who do not wish to attend need not attend. You can also add in the resurrection egg activity to your egg hunt, if you want more emphasis on the religious aspects of Easter for outsiders. My church here has for years provided a neighborhood egg hunt for the children. It's another outreach ministry.

 

And I absolutely agree that especially with new Christians, Sunday school is another important ministry for your church to offer. Those who do not feel they need or want it need not attend.

 

Regena

[KristineIN]

Is the Sunday School program for children only, or is it a church-wide program?

 

Shannon

 

We are talking about making it a church-wide program, there was talking of doing the teachings as a family and then breaking up into groups and having age appropriate things for the kids and more teaching for the adults. (I'm not sure how all of this is going to be planned out, but that's the thinking right now)

 

Also, as far as joining, it has really gone smoothly, just these minor bumps, by this one family, it's neat getting to know other families and having our numbers go from about 50 to 90. I do think that if this family is not happy, then they need to move on, but it seems like they just want everyone else to change their ways. I can't see changing if most people don't want to. Even the pastors wife said it's nice that the building is used during the week instead of sitting empty. The church where we now meet, at one point, had a congregation of 400 people (this was several years ago) and they split and then things just fell apart. When they moved out to the spot (it's 34 acres) they even had plans to build a bigger church, I saw the old plans yesterday, they are still at the church and for a long time hung in the entryway) I can see if this family tries to get things to change and instead of the family leaving, the pastor deciding that we should do what they want (Which I don't think he would do, but he wants to keep everyone happy), then I could see people being upset.

 

Very interesting. I can see why some people don't get involved in churches (although I don't think that's the answer either)

Kristine

[Aubrey]

Just curious--were any of these issues addressed before the merge? I'd think the daycare esp would have been a big one.

 

Personally, I'm not thrilled about churches doing Easter, but that's not a deal-breaker. If dh & I avoided all churches that celebrate E, there would hardly be anything left to choose from. And my experience has been that those who celebrate it are almost always well-meaning.

 

I agree w/ the others. These sound like families who would be upset no matter what. Otoh, maybe the other church did not do a good job of informing their people regarding the new situation, i.e. Easter & daycare.

 

Jmo.:)

[beansprouts]

Daycares provide (hopefully) a safe environment for children whose parents must work. Some may have no family and perhaps can not afford a nanny, etc. to keep these children at home. This is also an opportunity for your church to provide outreach to both these little children and to their parents. So I would consider this a mission.

 

Our church operates a preschool which has drawn both believers and non-believers from the community. This for us has become another outlet for the gospel.

[beansprouts]

Very interesting. I can see why some people don't get involved in churches (although I don't think that's the answer either)

Kristine

 

I have seen many people spend their lives looking for that "perfect church". There is no such thing - and if there was, they wouldn't want me :D

[KristineIN]

Just curious--were any of these issues addressed before the merge? I'd think the daycare esp would have been a big one.

 

Personally, I'm not thrilled about churches doing Easter, but that's not a deal-breaker. If dh & I avoided all churches that celebrate E, there would hardly be anything left to choose from. And my experience has been that those who celebrate it are almost always well-meaning.

 

I agree w/ the others. These sound like families who would be upset no matter what. Otoh, maybe the other church did not do a good job of informing their people regarding the new situation, i.e. Easter & daycare.

 

Jmo.:)

 

 

We were the outside church coming in, and so was this family, the daycare was obvious, it was already there, it's kind of hard to hide the fact that there is a daycare at a church. The family did voice their concerns, but others counter acted with, it is a ministry and it is supporting the church, including my husband. I think the family was quiet for a while, but then started in on the Sunday School issue when it was brought up a few weeks ago.

When you have 10 families, excited to be able to have a building, see potential growth of a congregation and instantly have your congregation double, these aren't things that normally happen, and then you have 1 family, saying, "there's a daycare, we don't like that, you want to do an egg hunt, we don't, Father's should be instructing at home, we shouldn't offer Sunday School" Well, it was ultimately the pastors decision to become the pastor and join forces with this church, what this family decides to do is their choice, but they don't want to just leave it alone, they want make everyone else feel the way they do (or so it appears)

 

 

Kristine

[Dayle in Guatemala]

I wouldn't be at all concerned about any of that. There isn't a church out there that will meet every need of every family, but, it can meet the needs of the majority of the congregation it serves. There are things in every church we've attended (about 3 altogether since we've been married) that we didn't "approve" of or that didn't necessarily fit the needs of our family, but, we just don't participate in those things.

 

If there is a problem with non-doctrinal issues we let it go, if the problem is doctrinal and we have scripture to back us, we first go to the leadership and then make our decision based on that. In the few cases we've done that, it's worked itself out or we were able to live with the answer given to us.

 

I wonder if there aren't deeper issues involved in their complaints? It's been my observation that when people start to complain about things like that there are oftentimes other issues involved.

[Melora in NC]

Personally, I'm not thrilled about churches doing Easter, but that's not a deal-breaker. If dh & I avoided all churches that celebrate E, there would hardly be anything left to choose from.

Jmo.:)

 

I'm probably missing something obvious, but what kind of churches Don't celebrate Easter? For us, it is the biggest day of the whole year!

 

(Again, please forgive me if this is a dumb question -- I don't mean offence, but I am curious!)

[Karenciavo]

Does your church have leadership? Elders or deacons or someone who this family can go speak to?

[Peek a Boo]

1. Easter Egg Hunt: If they don't like the Easter Egg Hunt, then why would they be OK w/ a "Resurrection Celebration" on the same date as a pagan festival? Are they? I'm guessing here :) Do they wear wedding rings? another pagan origination. Birthday parties? I would have them do a study on "redeeming pagan holidays/traditions for Christ" so they can see just how many things they are already embracing w/o knowing it. Or maybe they have?? Without a clear scriptural mandate against fun traditional rituals that don't exclude Christ, they need to let others participate. They are not forced to participate and I would assist them in their opting out if they want and support thier decision.

 

2. daycare: Are all parents in the church stay-at-home moms? i would expect them to call any parents that aren't to the carpet as well. Don't forget all those other sins that we are all prey to. And honestly, this is where I would bring out Jesus' "remove the log from your own eye first" statement and point out their own logs.

 

3. Sunday school: I think the explanation y'all are using is faulty. Sunday School is not for parents who are incapable, and new Christians should not be exempt from doing daily reading/devotions w/ their families. Instead, you should focus on the role of the congregational family to support each other, and [as mentioned] the SS as a children's class while parents receive the needed corporate time in small groups, so they can then go forth and fulfill their scriptural obligations to their families. maybe it would help if the church was encouraging more families to do daily devotionals at home. I wish more churches would push that. And as w/ the egg hunt, they can come to worship and skip SS.

 

and worst case? yes, maybe they need to find a different congregation that fits the needs of their specific convictions.

[Aubrey]

I'm probably missing something obvious, but what kind of churches Don't celebrate Easter? For us, it is the biggest day of the whole year!

 

(Again, please forgive me if this is a dumb question -- I don't mean offence, but I am curious!)

 

Oh, I'm not offended! I was raised Church of Christ, & they don't celebrate any holidays...maybe at all. My gr-gr-parents were super conservative & didn't celebrate any at all. When I was a kid, we celebrated Christmas & Easter, but purely in a secular context. We *only* did the Easter Bunny & Santa--nothing religious.

 

Now, while I'm not CC, I still have trouble w/ the religious aspects of these holidays. I'm sure this is partly b'cs of my upbringing, but it's also partly because of the history behind them, Easter in particular.

 

I also think there is a difference either in denominations or in region (not sure which) w/ regard to Easter. I've never been in a church where it was a big deal, but I met a friend in college--I don't remember where he was from or what denomination--but he said the same thing. He really missed Easter his first yr away from home because it was such a non-event here.

 

HTH (w/out offending!):)

[...................]

Here's how it worked out!

 

Daycare: We decided someday when we are ready for daycare, we will always still allow all children in the service if their parents want them there. They have to be quiet but we don't stare if there's a noise here and there.

 

This way the parents that want their children, can have their children with them.

 

Easter Egg Hunt: Have this before church, instead of after so that the families who don't want it can come to church at normal time and their kids won't be left out.

 

:o)

[beansprouts]

1. Easter Egg Hunt: If they don't like the Easter Egg Hunt, then why would they be OK w/ a "Resurrection Celebration" on the same date as a pagan festival? Are they? I'm guessing here :) Do they wear wedding rings? another pagan origination. Birthday parties?

 

You forgot to mention Christmas: the wreath, the tree, the red & green lights, mistletoe. Not to mention Christ was probably born in September...

 

 

2. daycare: Are all parents in the church stay-at-home moms? i would expect them to call any parents that aren't to the carpet as well.

 

...or {gasp} single parents???

 

And no, I hope none of our enthusiastic Pharisees start harrassing members whose lifestyle or economic status do not live up to their standards.

[KristineIN]

Here's how it worked out!

 

Daycare: We decided someday when we are ready for daycare, we will always still allow all children in the service if their parents want them there. They have to be quiet but we don't stare if there's a noise here and there.

 

This way the parents that want their children, can have their children with them.

 

Easter Egg Hunt: Have this before church, instead of after so that the families who don't want it can come to church at normal time and their kids won't be left out.

 

:o)

 

No, I'm talking about a church with a daycare, during the week daycare where parents drop their kids off, not a church where there is something for the kids to do during the service. ;) That is not likely going to happen, some of their former members mentioned a "Children's Church" but all families in our congregation want a family worship, we do not want to see the family divided. We have put a speaker in a nursery room (just yesterday) so parents with children that need to go out can, but everyone else remains in the service.

 

Kristine

[Melora in NC]

Oh, I'm not offended! I was raised Church of Christ, & they don't celebrate any holidays...maybe at all. My gr-gr-parents were super conservative & didn't celebrate any at all. When I was a kid, we celebrated Christmas & Easter, but purely in a secular context. We *only* did the Easter Bunny & Santa--nothing religious.

 

Now, while I'm not CC, I still have trouble w/ the religious aspects of these holidays. I'm sure this is partly b'cs of my upbringing, but it's also partly because of the history behind them, Easter in particular.

 

I also think there is a difference either in denominations or in region (not sure which) w/ regard to Easter. I've never been in a church where it was a big deal, but I met a friend in college--I don't remember where he was from or what denomination--but he said the same thing. He really missed Easter his first yr away from home because it was such a non-event here.

 

HTH (w/out offending!):)

 

Thank you so much, Audrey! I am woefully ignorant about the traditions of denominations outside of the few I am familiar with, but I am always eager to learn! I didn't realize that Church of Christ doesn't celebrate holidays.

 

Thank you for your understanding & informative answer!

[OnTheBrink]

It wouldn't bother me at all if my church had a day care. I'd probably work at it part time. LOL

 

As for Easter. If the focus of that day was bunnies, eggs, etc, then it would bother me. Our church calls it Resurrection Sunday and there is no egg hunt, bunnies or any such thing. If parents want to do that in their families, it's left up to their own convictions on the issue. The church as a whole doesn't do that. However, my dd loves egg hunts and fully expects me and her brother to provide one for her. LOL I'd prefer a church not deal with egg hunts and bunnies, but keep the focus on the resurrection, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

[beansprouts]

As for Easter. If the focus of that day was bunnies, eggs, etc, then it would bother me. Our church calls it Resurrection Sunday and there is no egg hunt, bunnies or any such thing. If parents want to do that in their families, it's left up to their own convictions on the issue. The church as a whole doesn't do that. However, my dd loves egg hunts and fully expects me and her brother to provide one for her. LOL I'd prefer a church not deal with egg hunts and bunnies, but keep the focus on the resurrection, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

 

Our Easter egg hunt in usually the Saturday before Palm Sunday, so there is no distraction from Ressurrection Day at all.

[Aubrey]

Thank you so much, Audrey! I am woefully ignorant about the traditions of denominations outside of the few I am familiar with, but I am always eager to learn! I didn't realize that Church of Christ doesn't celebrate holidays.

 

Thank you for your understanding & informative answer!

 

I've heard that there are more liberal CCs, but I was raised in a more conservative branch.

 

Just fyi, I'm AuBrey. Normally not a big deal, but there is an AuDrey on the boards, & she's not me.;)

[Tami]

I mean no disrespect, but this forum is not your church family, and so I don't see how it is helpful to post about this situation here. It seems to me that you are building a case against these families, who are not here to defend themselves, leaning toward gossip, and asking for others to join in.

 

If you have something against a particular person or persons at your church, disgree with their positions on decisions, the best thing to do is to go to them individually, rather than post about them on a homeschool message board. For me it is always easier to "vent" than go to the person, but it is counterproductive, and misses the mark.

 

See James 3

 

I hope you find peace in your situation.

[TravelingChris]

We are military so we have been in many congregations over the years as we keep moving about. Some of the churches had pre-schools and the one we are members at now has this too. It is an outreach and a way to minister to children. We get families involved in the church this way. It serves a need in the community. I wouldn't use it if I had little ones most likely but I did use a Mother's Day Out program at a church when my oldest two were little. It helped with doctor appointments and other errands.

 

Our current church has an Easter egg hunt on Good Friday which is a school holiday. The Mimister talks to the kids, there are Bible themed games and activities, we had a Christian magician perform last year, and each child receives some Christian message and symbols amongst the eggs they collect. Other churches we have been at like the base chapel overseas had an easter Egg hunt outside after the communal Easter Dinner we shared after service. Again, it can either be an outreach ministry or a fun recreation activity for Christian children or both. No Easter bunnies were ever present at these Christian events and no one seemed confused.

 

Sunday School helps some children learn Bible basics. For others like my kids, it reinforces knowledge they already have and gives them some feloowship time and fun craft time.We don't just leave Bible learning to Sunday School. In older grades, we have homework for the teens.

 

If I find something very objectionable, I would go to another church. I would not expect the church to change for me.

[KristineIN]

I mean no disrespect, but this forum is not your church family, and so I don't see how it is helpful to post about this situation here. It seems to me that you are building a case against these families, who are not here to defend themselves, leaning toward gossip, and asking for others to join in.

 

If you have something against a particular person or persons at your church, disgree with their positions on decisions, the best thing to do is to go to them individually, rather than post about them on a homeschool message board. For me it is always easier to "vent" than go to the person, but it is counterproductive, and misses the mark.

 

See James 3

 

I hope you find peace in your situation.

 

Sorry, I don't mean any disrespect, my husband and others have tried talking to this family and are continuing discussions until we have a church meeting that everyone can attend. There are no "elders" yet, only the administrative board has been set. I guess I only ask these questions because when others don't like things, it sometimes makes me doubt what we think, maybe they are right and we are the ones wrong, (it's not really about right or wrong here, but just what we think should be done is different) I don't know, but I was just curious in general how people felt about these issues, are there a lot of people that have a problem with church run daycares, or is it minimal, are there a lot of people that think Easter Egg hunts are a bad thing and the same with Sunday School. I truly like to try and figure out why people think the way they do. Sorry if I felt like I was venting, we've never had church issues before and don't really know how they work things out. Before no one really ever said anything, no decisions were ever made and we just kind of went with the flow, now that is not the case. I'm not concerned about what will happen, I know that where ever things go from here, we will be God's will, sometimes I come across differently than I mean....that's the thing with typing out our thoughts sometimes.

 

Kristine

[Nestof3]

These are the main things:

The church already had a daycare, they don't want a church that has a daycare and don't want the church to advertise about the daycare.

 

We are planning a Resurrection Celebration for Easter and most people want to have an Easter Egg Hunt for the kids, they are upset saying it's a "pagan" ritual.

 

We are trying to decide what to do about Sunday School and this family does not want to see it offered. They feel the fathers should be doing this instruction at home, yet the church that we joined is mainly new Christians and some do not feel they are capable of this yet.

 

Honestly, we wouldn't go to that church for these reasons either. It sounds like these families should homechurch like we do. We are an age-integrated, family-integrated group of believers who meet together for teaching, encouragement, exhortation, etc.

[OnTheBrink]

Our Easter egg hunt in usually the Saturday before Palm Sunday, so there is no distraction from Ressurrection Day at all.

 

Then that wouldn't bother me a bit. :)

[Peek a Boo]

I mean no disrespect, but this forum is not your church family, and so I don't see how it is helpful to post about this situation here. It seems to me that you are building a case against these families, who are not here to defend themselves, leaning toward gossip, and asking for others to join in.

 

If you have something against a particular person or persons at your church, disgree with their positions on decisions, the best thing to do is to go to them individually, rather than post about them on a homeschool message board. For me it is always easier to "vent" than go to the person, but it is counterproductive, and misses the mark.

 

See James 3

 

I hope you find peace in your situation.

 

actually, as christians in the body of Christ, there's nothing prohibiting other Christians from offering scriptural observations or looking for input on a situation. i do believe that since we don't know the whole situation, we do need to be cautious in realiizing that --thus my own questions about what they DO in other situations involving pagan originations.

 

The line between gossip and discussion really isn't as fine as one might purport. As she posted, if we are looking for input on how we are seeing a situation or what is commonly done by other Christians, discussion is necessary. We need to be ready to defend what we believe. It is also good to hear about why one WOULD believe a different way from others [like some that don't celebrate an Easter Day].

 

i do not believe that scriptural counsel needs to be limited to one pastor, one church congregation, or even one denomination, but to seek advice from a multitude of counselors.

[RoughCollie]

Personally, I think an Easter egg hunt is fine, and so is having a Sunday school at church.

 

If it's only one family that has a problem, I'd tell them to suck it up or go elsewhere. One family shouldn't be allowed to dictate church policy, IMO.

 

 

If they don't like the egg hunt or the Sunday school, they don't have to attend either of them. But why should they be permitted to manipulate the congregation into doing things their way when they are clearly in a minority of one?

[Holly IN]

I've heard that there are more liberal CCs, but I was raised in a more conservative branch.

 

Just fyi, I'm AuBrey. Normally not a big deal, but there is an AuDrey on the boards, & she's not me.;)

 

I was raised in a Church of Christ (NON accapella meaning we did musical instruments) that always celebrated Santa Clause and Easter bunny down to the Easter Egg hunt to Santa Clause coming to church during Christmas Eve service. :rolleyes: :eek: This church is considered very conservative. The church we are currently attending/members of, is considered very liberal do nto have Santa visit or Easter Egg hunt. They call it Resurrection Sunday instead of Easter Sunday.

 

It really falls under who the leadership is and how they go about it. It varies even within Christian Churches /Churches of Christ. I more likely would attend Churches of Christ over what we go to now just because of their stance on doctrine. The music issues is why we stay away.

 

Now for us as a family: If a church did Easter egg hunt then we as a family will not participate. If a church had Sunday School we will attend them but the kids know that daddy is the leader/boss of them not the youth leader or teacher in the church. We do have them understand that.

 

The only beef we have with Sunday School is that it has a secular mindset that only teachers can teach the kids not the parents. It does have a public school mindset. If the parents set that straight with the kids stating that the father is in charge not the youth leader or teacher then it shouldn't be a problem

 

For a family to say to the church no they shouldn't do that is one thing. The church do not rule a family. Only God does, through the husband/father.

 

In our situation: Our church do not have Sunday school but their own worhsip service with small group setting after worship service. We do not agree with this type of format. In fact, we prefer the traditional Sunday School over this. We believe a family should worship together than sepratley. That is where my dh and I take our kids to the adult worship service and we worship together there. Yes, we had questions on this. We simply state that we do not believe families are to be split up for worship services. So we worship together. Do we stay for the 2nd hour? No. We go home. We do our Sunday School that night. I really wished our church would do Sunday School instead of this worship for this grade group and worship for this grade group. Here is the setup at our church:

 

Newborn to pre-K have Sunday School.

K to 5th grade have worhsip together with small group afterwards.

6th to 8th grade have their own worship together with small group afterwards.

9th to 12 th grade have their own worship together with small group afterwards.

 

This is going on while the adult have their own worship service. We do not like this at all.

 

We do not speak against it but we do not follow the pattern of their ways though.

 

This family you speak of needs to zip their mouths shut and decide for themselves what they will and will not do or go to a different church. I am sorry but they are in the wrong in this. They need to decide as a family what they will do or will not do. They can't tell the church what they can't or can do . that is up to the leadership. They will be held accountable.

 

As far as daycare goes: that is up to the church! My church has a private school. Fine! I do not care as long as they do not dictate to me that I have to send my kids there or to support the school because I will not and they do not ask for funds or why I do not send my kids there. There will always be a need for daycare. I do not agree with them at all. However there are parents that have to work or want to work so what better way for a church to minister families by providing a daycare service to them. Can't we reach them throught that? Again I do not agree in daycares at all. Mine does but I do not speak against it. Not everybody wants or are able to stay home with their children. We have to make that available to them.

 

Now I am answering the OP 's question of the 1st post. I apologize if I repeated somebody else. I do not have time to read all the post. I did read some. Aubrey's piqued an interest since she was raised CoC.

 

This is my 2 cents. My personal opinion!

 

Holly

[Aubrey]

I was raised in a Church of Christ (NON accapella meaning we did musical instruments) that always celebrated Santa Clause and Easter bunny down to the Easter Egg hunt to Santa Clause coming to church during Christmas Eve service. :rolleyes: :eek: This church is considered very conservative.

 

Whoa, Holly! The way I grew up, your churches would have been *very* liberal! We had no instruments, no holidays, religious or otherwise (IN the church--outside is a slightly dif. story).:)

 

I've heard that this can vary from one pt of the country to another. It's interesting to hear dif. perspectives.:)

[...................]

the Hispanic church that we rent from has a daycare. it's a wonderful thing for them. They offset the cost of their church HUGELY with the daycare. Then again for the members of the church who need it, they are so glad to have thier children in a Christian environment. They have very high standards in their daycare. I hate daycare and would never want my kids there but sometimes people don't have a choice. In our area, half the population just got off the boat. They need daycare to help them with their little ones.

 

Anyway, the lady who runs the day care is doing her very best. They are doing Abeka K-4 with them and they read to them, and do play doh and crafts. The place is crystal clean and they take them outside to play three times a day. They're really trying hard to do a good job with the little ones.

[lynn]

You can't please all the people all the time. Sunday schools and the celebrations the church chooses to have are going to ruffle some feathers and there's not much you can do about it. Are these things important to me not really depends on the church.

[gandpsmommy]

At least, it is hard for me to say anything in my own words that would be extremely helpful in this situation, but I was thinking about your situation this morning, and I wondered if you have read Romans 14 through 15:6 lately. It might be helpful to both you and the family who is dissenting. Best wishes!

[Melora in NC]

Just fyi, I'm AuBrey. Normally not a big deal, but there is an AuDrey on the boards, & she's not me.;)

 

Aubrey! Please accept my apologies! Getting a name wrong Is kind of a big deal, and I am sorry.

 

Again, thanks for filling me in on the fact that not all churches celebrate Easter! Between dh and I, we know about the Catholic church and the Episcopal church (and dh is pretty rusty on Catholic tradition!), and we have a Baptist church next door that currently has a cross outside draped in purple cloth (so I figure they celebrate Easter), and I somehow thought that, between Catholics to Baptists, we had the whole spectrum of Christianity covered! But reading this thread tells me that I am embarrassingly Wrong about that -- I learn so much on this board, and I truly am thankful to be better informed.

[Plaid Dad]

I haven't read all the other responses, so this may repeat what others have said.

 

If I were part of this church, I would not be bothered by the Easter egg hunt (eggs are a Resurrection symbol with a long history) or by a daycare provider using the building. I would only be bothered by Sunday School if it happened at the same time as adult worship and was required of all children.

 

I would be bothered by a few dissenters making a stink about these things after the fact of a church merger. It sounds like they need to find a church more in line with their beliefs and values.

[Tami]

I guess what I would do is commit the matter to prayer and try to not let a root of bitterness start in your heart. I mean, these things are kinda small potatoes, in the scheme of things. I firmly believe that these matters should stay within a church family and not be repeated, especially on an inclusive message board.

 

Perhaps this will be an opportunity for growing in grace, and seeking the meek place - deferring to others, rather than insisting on one's own way. I did not say this was easy!!!

 

Like a natural blended family, it will take time for a 'blended' family to get used to one another's ways. What is normative in one family may be offensive to another. WHen you blend 2 families together, there is going to be coflict and a need for Biblical conflict resolution. Gossip and talebearing will eat a church alive. Gossip usually begins with "What do you think about...." or "Can I vent?" Run as far from it as possible - and confront it when you see it. You will do both your and your hearers good!

 

I pray that some good will come out of this and that you will grow to tolerate one another's differences within your church body. You are having growing pains. You are in my prayers, dear sister.

[Tami]

actually, as christians in the body of Christ, there's nothing prohibiting other Christians from offering scriptural observations or looking for input on a situation. i do believe that since we don't know the whole situation, we do need to be cautious in realiizing that --thus my own questions about what they DO in other situations involving pagan originations.

 

The line between gossip and discussion really isn't as fine as one might purport. As she posted, if we are looking for input on how we are seeing a situation or what is commonly done by other Christians, discussion is necessary. We need to be ready to defend what we believe. It is also good to hear about why one WOULD believe a different way from others [like some that don't celebrate an Easter Day].

 

i do not believe that scriptural counsel needs to be limited to one pastor, one church congregation, or even one denomination, but to seek advice from a multitude of counselors.

 

Thanks for posting. I can't agree with your last statement totally. IF the conflict is WITH a member of your church body, that is where it should stay. The problem is that we tend to run to counselors that will simply tell us what we want to hear, or to people where we can give OUR side of the story and build our case.

 

I believe that this falls under talebearing and gossip. If it's even a question, I would avoid it.

 

I realize you will disagree with that - just wanted to let you know that I read and considered your post. Thanks again.

[Ellie]

of course, it does not mean that their thoughts shouldn't be taken into consideration, but still...only two...

 

I wouldn't want the church to do daycare, either.

 

I'm not crazy about Easter egg hunts at church, but it isn't a deal-breaker for me. It would become a deal-breaker if there was much emphasis on Easter bunnies and whatnot, but not an egg hunt.

 

Sunday school? Well, there isnt anything *wrong* with it. Yes, Chrisitan parents (not just fathers) are supposed to be instructing their dc at home, but an hour a week of Sunday school does not prohibit that from happening, KWIM? That some parents are new Christians and unsure of what to do is not an excuse for them not to do that instructing (do they have Bibles? If nothing else, they can open their Bibles and read aloud to their dc.), but there's nothing *wrong* with having Sunday school. And there might be children coming whose parents are not Christians; Sunday school would be their only Godly instruction each week. Parents who disagree with Sunday school are welcome to stay home and just attend the worship service with their dc.

[Danestress]

Thanks for posting. I can't agree with your last statement totally. IF the conflict is WITH a member of your church body, that is where it should stay. The problem is that we tend to run to counselors that will simply tell us what we want to hear, or to people where we can give OUR side of the story and build our case.

 

I believe that this falls under talebearing and gossip. If it's even a question, I would avoid it.

 

I realize you will disagree with that - just wanted to let you know that I read and considered your post. Thanks again.

 

 

 

I would agree if there were any way any of us would know who she is talking about. Assuming there isn't, I think it's great to say "hey, what do you think of this? Would this bother you?" because to me, she hasn't just decided she is right and they are wrong. She's looking for understanding their views. Or at least that's how it seemed to me, though obviously you saw it differently - that she just wanted to build her own case.

 

Sometimes it's hard to seperate the view on the issue from the particular person, so if you sort of naturally dislike someone, I think it's okay to ask for insight from others on a view that isn't yours but that you want to understand.

 

I greatly dislike churchy gossip. But I don't consider it gossip to say "some people in my church (who you could not possibly know) have X view. I disagree but want to understand it more. Do any of you agree with that view?"

 

Naturally if we could know who she's talking about, all bets are off. I think I personally have given enough information about myself here that someone I know in real life would recognize me. So I could not bring a problem with my church here because one of the other people in my church who homeschools might see it. But if she doesn't think that's possible, I think it's okay to post.