CC: How and when do you know you are done having children?

[Dianne-TX]

The Bible is clear about having children and that we should be fruitful and multiply and that children are a blessing from the Lord, so why do we put a stop to when we have children? God opened and closed many wombs in the Bible. How do we really let it go and let Him decide how many children we will have? Are we to use wisdom in this situation to decide how many children we have or are we to leave that completely to Him even if we feel that we cannot afford more children? How do you come to peace with this situation in your life? Do you leave it up to Him completely and go to Him when you feel fearful and overwhelmed or do you use wisdom and believe that those feelings are an indication of not needing to have more? I hope I'm making sense. Thanks.

[Georgiana Daniels]

I'm really interested to see the answers. As for us, we'd like more, but are already overcrowded here at home, plus we don't have a vehicle that'd fit more kids. In our situation I'd feel unwise having more.

 

Very interested to see the responses.

[Quiver0f10]

The answer to all your questions isn't going to be the same for everybody. It's between you, your Dh and God. I suggest praying over these questions together with your Dh.

 

Check this page for some good books on the idea of trusting God with your family size: http://www.quiverfull.com/resources.php

[Dianne-TX]

I'm really interested to see the answers. As for us, we'd like more, but are already overcrowded here at home, plus we don't have a vehicle that'd fit more kids. In our situation I'd feel unwise having more.

 

Very interested to see the responses.

 

We only have 2, but even I can see many reasons why we shouldn't have more or see that we can't afford more. Other reasons: I already feel mentally, emotionally and physically overdrawn sometimes, my own stability as a Mom to have more, financially of course, and all the other reasons that we all know are there. I know I don't have to explain because we all experience them. Is that how I should treat this decision, though, or should we just believe that the Lord will give us a child and He'll work out the details? I know we use wisdom in our decisions and we just don't sit there and wait for the Lord to drop things in our lap. He did create us as intelligent creatures that can make decisions and are able to know, with His wisdom, what we should and should not do, but I wonder if I'm limiting God in this particular situation? It's not like should I buy a car or not. If I can't afford a car, then I don't buy one. But, having children is not like buying a car, kwim, even if I feel I can't afford it? Right? I'm struggling through this. I don't have a "quiver-full", but I know the Lord only gives what He gives. If we are to have 2, then we'll have 2, but should I limit it or let God limit it? I know there are societal debates about this, but I'm really trying to know *God's will* in this area and gaining wisdom from wise sources, not trying to start a debate. Of course I know that you all are not God and I'm of course earnestly praying for peace in this area. Just interested in hearing how everyone else deals with this area in their spiritual life. The Bible says to seek wise counsel and some of you are very wise. :) Thanks.

[Dianne-TX]

The answer to all your questions isn't going to be the same for everybody. It's between you, your Dh and God. I suggest praying over these questions together with your Dh.

 

Check this page for some good books on the idea of trusting God with your family size: http://www.quiverfull.com/resources.php

 

Thank you. You are right. I'm really feeling like this an area of COMPLETE faith and I'm fearful to go there. It is quite sad that I'm fearful. Is He growing me and trying to stretch my faith even if we don't have more? Does He just want me to let go of this completely? I'm thinking He is. My DH feels differently in this area. I'm the one struggling. I'm also feeling that this is an area of stretching my submission to my DH. I would appreciate prayers.

[dangermom]

Yeah, I'd agree that it's between you two and the Lord. It's going to be different for everyone.

 

In our case, I had had two and wanted another, and my husband pointed out the health difficulties that might not make that a great decision. Through a lot of prayer, we decided not to have more children. I was not very happy about that at all (3 was my bare minimum!) and pretty much told God that He'd have to do something about that. One day soon afterwards my desire for more children simply disappeared. It was taken away. That was quite a surprise, and took me a year or so to get used to. Since then I've been at peace about our little family.

 

After we had been sure for a while, we went the surgical route. We decided that we would be open to adoption if we felt that was something we should do, but nothing so far.

[Dirtroad]

I have 2 children... 10 & 8.... I have not taken birth control but 1 month in all those years. I thought I was done b/c I am over 40. Guess what? #3 will arrive in October. I just thought the "quiver was full".

 

I have a friend with 5 children and her life seems no more chaotic than my friend with 3. Just more car seats to buckle. They arent' all on the same level & the older ones are TREMENDOUS helpers with the younger ones. Even her 3 year old puts up his laundry. They cooperate better & are more patient too! Some great positives! I think it also helps us (parents) to realize that hand-me-downs are a blessing... you don't have to take every piano & dance class that you see... and you don't have to have New gadgets for next baby (we get more practical & perhaps more humble)!

 

The most time consuming children are the "only child" families. The child depends upon the Mother as parent & playmate.... she is the entertainment & caretaker. When you have multiples, her job gets easier in this regard.

 

I had one lady tell me that "you lose your mind after the 2nd one:tongue_smilie:.... what does it matter if you have a few more".... I loved that line!!:lol:

 

As for knowing... I didn't, but I also did not have a tubal or take the pill for prevention. Guess I was leaving it up to God.

 

We aren't as dependant today on our children as in former times. We don't need them in the field, we don't need them (usually) to support us as we age, and we don't need them as widows to feed & protect us. That effects my view on having so many. We are also not an agricultural or hunting society and FEEDING kids is much harder than long ago.

 

I think God gives you & DH wisdom. Read his word & reflect. Pray & discuss. Your choice may become more obvious with these actions.

Edited August 10, 2009 by Dirtroad

[Julie in CA]

I had some personal debate over this issue too. If children are a blessing from God (and we know that they *are*), well, who in their right mind turns down blessings, right? We had 5 babies in about 7 years, and each one has been such a blessing!

 

On the other hand...if I have a headache, I take a Tylenol, and the headache goes away. I believe that the Tylenol is a blessing given by God, and I use them when necessary to relieve pain. There are places in the Bible where pain is described as a good thing. Doesn't mean that it's *always* the right thing, and I don't seek pain purposefully. Sometimes I even try to prevent pain. Are you seeing my train of thought?

 

I've changed my viewpoint on family planning. My quiver feels "full".

Please, I don't mean to offend anyone who believes differently, I'm just explaining how I've come to view the issue. I think we've been fruitful, and we've multiplied, and even the fact that we felt done at 5 dc (#5 was deathly ill at two months old and truly made me feel "done") and have chosen to make the choice permanent doesn't feel like we've done it selfishly, or against God's will.

[OHGrandma]

I have 2 children... 10 & 8.... I have not taken birth control but 1 month in all those years. I thought I was done b/c I am over 40. Guess what? #3 will arrive in October. I just thought the "quiver was full".

 

I have a friend with 5 children and her life seems no more chaotic than my friend with 3. Just more car seats to buckle. They arent' all on the same level & the older ones are TREMENDOUS helpers with the younger ones. Even her 3 year old puts up his laundry. They cooperate better & are more patient too! Some great positives! I think it also helps us (parents) to realize that hand-me-downs are a blessing... you don't have to take every piano & dance class that you see... and you don't have to have New gadgets for next baby (we get more practical & perhaps more humble)!

 

The most time consuming children are the "only child" families. The child depends upon the Mother as parent & playmate.... she is the entertainment & caretaker. When you have multiples, her job gets easier in this regard.

 

I had one lady tell me that "you lose your mind after the 2nd one:tongue_smilie:.... what does it matter if you have a few more".... I loved that line!!:lol:

 

As for knowing... I didn't, but I also did not have a tubal or take the pill for prevention. Guess I was leaving it up to God.

 

We aren't as dependant today on our children as in former times. We don't need them in the field, we don't need them (usually) to support us as we age, and we don't need them as widows to feed & protect us. That effects my view on having so many. We are also not an agricultural or hunting society and FEEDING kids is much harder than long ago.

 

I think God gives you & DH wisdom. Read his word & reflect. Pray & discuss. Your choice may become more obvious with these actions.

 

Your comment made me think of what my mom said. "One child takes up all the mom's time, two can't take up any more."

Due to some genetic issues we decided two was enough, but if God thought differently He could override anything we did. We've been able to help other children, and take in our GS because we were available and open to where God lead.

[Prudent]

The Bible is clear about having children and that we should be fruitful and multiply and that children are a blessing from the Lord, so why do we put a stop to when we have children?

 

I agree with your second assertion that the Bible is clear about children being a blessing from the Lord. All children are blessings, but that doesn't mean all people should have an unlimited amount :tongue_smilie:

 

I don't agree that we ALL should be fruitful and multiply. The times God said that waere specific commands to specific families. God told Adam & Eve to be fruitful because they were the only people on the planet. He told Noah's sons the same thing for the same reason.

 

I think God has a unique plan for every family, and you have to follow his instructions to YOU, not other families.

[Tenaj]

We've been through a long journey on this issue. One book that really helped us with our decision is "A Mom Just Like You" by Vicky Farris. There are two really good chapters in this book about their decision to become quiverfull that just spoke to our hearts.

 

Another deciding factor for us was an early miscarriage we had between kidlets #3 and #4. It's my only gap and everytime someone comments on that gap (Our missing baby would have been exactly between the two we have) I'm reminded of how precious life is.

 

I did not always appreciate my fertility - I'm still totally embarrassed by my reaction to finding out I was pregnant with our dd when my son was only 9 months old. I was mortified about what people would think and I still find it disturbing in Christian circles that there is so much negativity toward having children close together/having large families.

 

I am now 44(!) and expecting baby #8 in three weeks - I'm assuming this is the last baby but on the other hand, when you research quiverfull issues you usually find that most women experience a slowing down of the timing of babies as they head toward their forties and we've not had that experience yet which is a bit scary for me.

 

I always experience a lot of trepidition at this point in trying to figure out where another baby is going to fit into our lives. We basically live in a three bedroom house with a large basement. We keep converting parts of the basement into bedrooms, thankfully, babies don't take up too much room or cost too much and God always seems to work out the details for us. Over the years, He's always provided the next size vehicle when we run out of room, and He's always provided us with a new idea of how to make our square-footage stretch a bit more.

 

This issue requires a lot of prayer, and discussion between husband and wife, as others have said. I know it's not the right decision for everyone, but for us it has been. I'm a much better mom/wife than I was when my oldest two were toddlers, not that I don't have a loooooong way too go and many struggles, just like everyone else.

[elegantlion]

I also agree it is different for everyone. I feel contented and done with one. He is an absolute and total blessing but I've never felt God urging us to have more.

 

I had health issues that prompted the doctor to urge me not to be pregnant again, even without that I don't think we would have considered trying for more. Both dh and I feel our family is complete. he is from a family of 5, my mother a family of 8, so we don't have anything against large families, just felt it wasn't for us.

[Georgiana Daniels]

 

I always experience a lot of trepidition at this point in trying to figure out where another baby is going to fit into our lives. We basically live in a three bedroom house with a large basement. We keep converting parts of the basement into bedrooms, thankfully, babies don't take up too much room or cost too much and God always seems to work out the details for us. Over the years, He's always provided the next size vehicle when we run out of room, and He's always provided us with a new idea of how to make our square-footage stretch a bit more.

 

 

 

This is where I get stumped. Glad to hear your thoughts, and I can really appreciate that kind of trust and faith.

[6packofun]

I don't believe that "be fruitful and multiply" is a command as so many like to interpret. It backs up their view of childbearing=holiness or righteousness, but I don't think it is meant that way.

 

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/november12/4.58.html

 

So, in that regard I feel free--and guilt-free--to grow our family as God sees fit for us, and I believe He takes into account the desires of my heart which are to have as many kids as we have energy and finances for and then to move on to the next phase of my womanhood joyfully, without feeling like Oskar Schindler.."Oh, if only we'd had JUST ONE MORE!!" (Then we'd be in God's will?) I guess I don't have an image of God waiting and waiting for us to get with the program because He's got all of these little souls that He needs ME to give birth to. lol

 

God, for us, is not concerned with a holy number of children, but a quiver that He helped us fill. Period.

[mommaduck]

As a friend of mine once told me, "you just know when you are done" and she was right.

[HFClassicalAcademy]

Ditto on mostly everyone who said it will be different for everyone! It is between the couple and God! We practice NFP (Natural Family Planning) as we are pro-life and the use of artificial contraception would not support that view. We are always open to life and happen to be a family that always wanted lots of kids. NFP works both ways (if you want more or if you are done!).

 

So for us, we can never say we are "done" mostly because we are open to having the number of children God wants us to have, but we have a number in mind and will be using NFP to see if that happens!! :D

 

Liz in NC

[Orthodox6]

Although I belong to a religion which does not "smile upon" birth control, that isn't what I'm thinking about with this response.

 

Rather, I always am puzzled by something which seems "unsaid" in this kind of discussion. People seem to respond as if assuming that they are totally responsible for the creation of a child. As this is labeled a Christian thread, I can remind us that no child comes into being without the will of God, and without His purposeful, creative act. God creates a new life, or refrains from creating a new life, according to His holy will.

 

I have been married for over twenty-five years now, and only four living children were granted to us. (Plus one who "went ahead of us".) There certainly was "opportunity" for more, to word it thus. Sometimes I had to remind myself that dh and I were not going to have more children just because we "said so", "decided to", "wanted to", or similar thought. We could ask, but we could not "force".

 

We never thought about financial costs with respect to something priceless.

 

I wish that we would have received more children. Sometimes I feel internally a little upset with dd, who doesn't fully grasp age/biology yet, and who cites Hannah and Sarah from the Old Testament, as the basis for her ongoing prayers that we have more children.

 

I know we are "done" because the last child returned to God before birth in 2000, and nobody ever has been sent to us after that.

[Jayne J]

Strangely, I just recently listened to a lecture that, in part, discussed the idea of quiverfull parenting, and the lecturer's point went something like this--not everyone has the same size quiver. He discussed the concept of filling to capacity, and that capacity was different for each family and situation. Now, prayer, alone and with your spouse, is really the only way to understand what God wants for you, how big your quiver is, so to speak, but is good to remember that for some, 20 is a full quiver, and for others it may be only one.

And I hope this will not sound flippant, for it is not meant to be, but I believe that God will work His will for us, and that BC can't really stop Him if He intends us to have more children. (Both my sister and I were conceived when my mother was correctly using BC.) This is the conclusion my husband and I have come to, but that is all it is--not advice!

[Supertechmom]

It varies from one to another I think. We have used NFP for years and have only 4 pregnancies out of it. We're not of a quiver full philosophy in the sense of have kids till you drop but simply believe that God has always given us children at the perfect time and place in our lives even when we were like "what?? NOW of all times??"" I think you should purposefully put your faith in God and believe that He knows your finances, He knows your space, He knows your ability to handle things, and He won't give you more than you can do EVEN WHEN YOU can't fathom how to make it work. HE does. Perhaps it isn't so much about how many you have but do you believe that God will provide and take of the blessing? Every child we have had Exactly what we needed. The right amount of space came up, the right size car, the clothes, baby gear, it all has worked out even when we knew we had no way to make it work.

 

And I also believe that God has given us modern medicine to use it. We have all ready decided to have a tubal after this baby because my health continues to erode with every pregnancy. I'm not sure I should take the chance of having more when the signs are posted all over that I shouldn't have anymore. I don't want to be like the people in the old flood joke... The man on the roof says "God will deliver me" every time some one tries to rescue him. when he drowns, he questions why God didn't' save him?? And God says he tried to. Perhaps this pregnancy is the sign God is giving me that my quiver is full. You just have to pray and seek God's will for your family path. And that path will be different for every family.

[Dianne-TX]

As a friend of mine once told me, "you just know when you are done" and she was right.

 

What if you feel that way and dh does not? We're talking and praying through it a lot. Just wondering if anyone else has gone through this situation. You really felt you were through, but dh is the one who wants to have another. BTW, our dc are 8 and 6. I'm praying that if God is working on me through my DH that I will be at peace with changing my mind and heart. Anyone experience this?

[KingM]

What if you feel that way and dh does not? We're talking and praying through it a lot. Just wondering if anyone else has gone through this situation. You really felt you were through, but dh is the one who wants to have another. BTW, our dc are 8 and 6. I'm praying that if God is working on me through my DH that I will be at peace with changing my mind and heart. Anyone experience this?

 

We kind of went through this, too. When we were dating and talking about how many children we wanted, I said 3-4 and she said 4-6. Sounded pretty close, but after we got married it turned out I was thinking more about 3 and she was thinking more about six.

 

Well, fast forward several years and we had three children, including twins. (There's a reason they usually come one at a time.) My wife starting thinking we were done, but slowly I came to the realization that I wanted one more. Actually, part of me thought I wanted two more.

 

In the end, I managed to talk her into that one more, but it was clear that this was it. So we're at four and it became pretty clear that we were 100% done this time.

[Dianne-TX]

It varies from one to another I think. We have used NFP for years and have only 4 pregnancies out of it. We're not of a quiver full philosophy in the sense of have kids till you drop but simply believe that God has always given us children at the perfect time and place in our lives even when we were like "what?? NOW of all times??"" I think you should purposefully put your faith in God and believe that He knows your finances, He knows your space, He knows your ability to handle things, and He won't give you more than you can do EVEN WHEN YOU can't fathom how to make it work. HE does. Perhaps it isn't so much about how many you have but do you believe that God will provide and take of the blessing? Every child we have had Exactly what we needed. The right amount of space came up, the right size car, the clothes, baby gear, it all has worked out even when we knew we had no way to make it work.

 

And I also believe that God has given us modern medicine to use it. We have all ready decided to have a tubal after this baby because my health continues to erode with every pregnancy. I'm not sure I should take the chance of having more when the signs are posted all over that I shouldn't have anymore. I don't want to be like the people in the old flood joke... The man on the roof says "God will deliver me" every time some one tries to rescue him. when he drowns, he questions why God didn't' save him?? And God says he tried to. Perhaps this pregnancy is the sign God is giving me that my quiver is full. You just have to pray and seek God's will for your family path. And that path will be different for every family.

 

Reading this REALLY helped me. The 1st paragraph is exactly what I've been thinking and going through emotionally. I've also thought through some things in your 2nd paragraph and wondering if God uses external things or people to help us make our decisions based on His will for our lives. I think if we seek Him for confirmation of what we might perceive as a sign from Him, then He will give us peace to know that the dr. was helping us make a decision based on His will for our life. Ex: DH is content in his job, another one comes along that is really good, takes it and then is told by former boss that his job would be changing next year. God placed that job in our life when we didn't even know we needed it. Another example. We've tried selling one of our vehicles for awhile (2 years) to be rid of a payment. It finally sold and our neighbors are giving us a minivan that needs repairs, but they are giving it to us nonetheless. My analytical mind sees that as God may be preparing us for a larger family because we didn't have the room in our other vehicle for more. That might seem small, but I can't help but see Him working even in a small way. It could also be nothing and God just wants my heart to be open to Him giving us more dc if that is His will, which may or may not be, it's just my heart that He wants fully. Especially since dh is feeling a desire for at least one more.

[lionfamily1999]

I've known couples where one or the other was "fixed" and years later they became pregnant. I've known people that use birth control religiously (:lol:, sorry, but it was a good pun), and became pregnant. I have known a girl who'd gotten an abortion and months later gave birth.

 

IMO, if God wants to bless you, you'll be blessed.

 

Dh and I will not get sterilized, and the only bc we use is one that most people scoff at. We're not trying to have more kids, there's days when all my little blessings make me want to pull my blessed hair out, but if we should, well, okay then.

 

IOW, there is a grey area and you are welcome here. We don't try to get pregnant, but we don't go out of our way to avoid it, either.

[Dianne-TX]

Although I belong to a religion which does not "smile upon" birth control, that isn't what I'm thinking about with this response.

 

Rather, I always am puzzled by something which seems "unsaid" in this kind of discussion. People seem to respond as if assuming that they are totally responsible for the creation of a child. As this is labeled a Christian thread, I can remind us that no child comes into being without the will of God, and without His purposeful, creative act. God creates a new life, or refrains from creating a new life, according to His holy will.

 

I have been married for over twenty-five years now, and only four living children were granted to us. (Plus one who "went ahead of us".) There certainly was "opportunity" for more, to word it thus. Sometimes I had to remind myself that dh and I were not going to have more children just because we "said so", "decided to", "wanted to", or similar thought. We could ask, but we could not "force".

 

We never thought about financial costs with respect to something priceless.

 

I wish that we would have received more children. Sometimes I feel internally a little upset with dd, who doesn't fully grasp age/biology yet, and who cites Hannah and Sarah from the Old Testament, as the basis for her ongoing prayers that we have more children.

 

I know we are "done" because the last child returned to God before birth in 2000, and nobody ever has been sent to us after that.

 

Thank you for your words. I'm embarrassed to say that while I'm fearful to "say" to the Lord, "how ever many children you want to give Lord.", I also know the flaw in that because He will give us more children if He so chooses despite what I want. We might even try for a child and He not give us one. I'm flawed in my thinking because I think if I "let it go", then that means we'll have 6 or 8, but it might mean zero more. He just wants my heart to acknowledge that He is truly in control of our family planning. Thanks again for being so open.

[AuntieM]

Everyone should have a quiver full. But each family's quiver is a different size!

 

For us, it became clear that the combination of my age (now 46), the circumstances in previous deliveries (2 c-sections, multiples, long vertical uterine incision, second-trimester miscarriage, transverse-laying babies, gestational diabetes, to name a few), multiple corporate household relocations including cross-country moves, and the impending needs of our aging parents, were all indicators that another pregnancy could not only be life-threatening for me (physically as well as mentally!), but could also deprive my existing 4 children of a mother to raise them. (How's that for the world's longest run-on sentence? Have mercy and no one diagram it, please.)

 

Anyway, not only do dh and I consider our quiver full, we are in agreement that we both want to be around to keep our arrows from falling out of the quiver until they are ready to be purposefully released.

 

FWIW, favorite conference speaker Mardy Freeman writes about this in her book, Children of Character. You may appreciate her insights, I think she may have a website if you google her name.

 

And our decisions are certainly subject to the Father's will. If He overrides, which we believe Him able to do, so be it. That would leave no doubt that His will was being done!

Edited August 11, 2009 by AuntieM

[Dianne-TX]

Strangely, I just recently listened to a lecture that, in part, discussed the idea of quiverfull parenting, and the lecturer's point went something like this--not everyone has the same size quiver. He discussed the concept of filling to capacity, and that capacity was different for each family and situation. Now, prayer, alone and with your spouse, is really the only way to understand what God wants for you, how big your quiver is, so to speak, but is good to remember that for some, 20 is a full quiver, and for others it may be only one.

And I hope this will not sound flippant, for it is not meant to be, but I believe that God will work His will for us, and that BC can't really stop Him if He intends us to have more children. (Both my sister and I were conceived when my mother was correctly using BC.) This is the conclusion my husband and I have come to, but that is all it is--not advice!

 

I can agree with this. Even in the Bible we see many different sizes of families and cannot biblically say that everyone is supposed to have 20 children. Again, it's all about the heart and are you open to having God control every part of your life? It's not my plan, it's His and I have to submit to Him in every way. I agree with what you said about BC. I can't say that BC is God's plan to help Him in His plan to prevent children, that's our choice. Some things are our choice and then God shows that He's still in control despite those choices. (refer to the post regarding the three people she knew who tried to control it and ended up having a child anyway) I love that! Also, my mom always said I was the 1% that got by the diaphram (sp?) so God definitely wanted me to happen and she is so glad He did! I'm all ready for that, it's the planning part that I'm struggling with. I'm done, dh is not, but I want God to surprise me and not plan for it. I would be good with that situation.

[Jami]

Here's John Piper's article on the subject, a view I tend to agree with:

 

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Articles/ByDate/2006/1440_Does_the_Bible_permit_birth_control/

 

I also appreciate Doug Wilson's thoughts on the subject. Though I suppose there will be those here who do not. :)

 

http://credenda.org/issues/18-4husbandry.php

 

Both articles seem to me very balanced, thoughtful ways to think through family planning issues as Christians.

[Dianne-TX]

Here's John Piper's article on the subject, a view I tend to agree with:

 

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Articles/ByDate/2006/1440_Does_the_Bible_permit_birth_control/

 

I also appreciate Doug Wilson's thoughts on the subject. Though I suppose there will be those here who do not. :)

 

http://credenda.org/issues/18-4husbandry.php

 

Both articles seem to me very balanced, thoughtful ways to think through family planning issues as Christians.

 

Thank you. I refer to John Piper a lot and didn't even think to see what biblical reference/insight I could find from sound Bible teachers on this subject. I've been going through my own biblical study and prayer, but there are helpful biblical resources out there. There have been a lot of other resources given and I will look at them all. Thank you, though, for this one. I've heard of Doug Wilson, but have never read anything by him or heard him speak. I know he has a respected reputation, though.

[Emmy]

Where does the concept of free will come in? I truly believe that we get to choose - God does not dictate every thing in our lives and the number of children we have falls into that. Sure some might decide for themselves that they want to have as many as possible, or some might decide to just "see what happens", but if people aren't called to that - then I don't think there is any reason to feel bad about it. It's ok for us to decide.

[Impish]

I want another child. I *know* it would be a boy. I've always (so far!) known years ahead of getting pregnant what my next child would be. Years before my first, I said my first would be a boy. Yep. After he was born, I said my next would be a girl. Diva arrived six years later. I said my next would be a boy. Tazzie arrived seven years later. Before he was born, I told dh that our next would be a girl, and look like him. Sure enough, Princess was born, and she has his brown eyes. (All my other kids are blue eyed).

 

So, I feel that I'm to have another child, a boy. Wolf doesn't feel the same :lol: He says its been enough years of diapers, tyvm. He also said recently, "I got you a puppy! No more baby talk!" :lol: Silly man. Like a puppy has anything to do with a baby :tongue_smilie: Even with his 'no baby talk' he won't take permanent precautions either. His idea of birth control is to avoid the 'danger days'.

 

I'm putting it in God's hands, where it firmly belongs. If God chooses to bless us again, I will be overjoyed. If He doesn't, hopefully I'll get over this feeling that our family isn't complete yet.

[Dianne-TX]

Where does the concept of free will come in? I truly believe that we get to choose - God does not dictate every thing in our lives and the number of children we have falls into that. Sure some might decide for themselves that they want to have as many as possible, or some might decide to just "see what happens", but if people aren't called to that - then I don't think there is any reason to feel bad about it. It's ok for us to decide.

 

I am not personally responding to you or your words, but just to my understanding of free will, so I hope you do not get offended because that is not my intention at all. But, I agree that we are allowed to make our own decisions as long as we aren't seeking our own desires, but seeking His desires in this area and are open to what He wants us to do. We can't say "I don't want anymore" and void that of prayer and seeking if that's what He wants us to do. After salvation, we have free will, but we must be obedient to His Word, biblical principles, and having our heart and life more and more transformed by Him. Every aspect in our life is full of choices. We just have to be careful that we aren't mistakenly making a choice based on OUR desire and saying that God gives me free will to make that choice if it is not based on biblical principles and teachings. Otherwise, we are making God to be what we want Him to be using our free will. I cannot say that my choice to not have more dc is my free will decision if my dh is being led to have another. I need to seek God's will in this area instead of being the one to make the decision. He will give peace to the choices we are to make in everything if we are truly seeking His will void of our "feelings". Truly seeking Him includes knowing His Word and the principles it teaches and applying them to our life, not just thinking or feeling something and saying that must be God leading me. Again, please don't be offended. I'm not responding to you personally, but my response to the understanding of free will that I've heard.

[Emmy]

Dianne - no worries, you have not offended me at all.

 

Honestly, I believe that God's will for our lives tends to be more general much of the time than detailed. Many times the individual decisions we make will work either way - with God's will for our lives. There are definitely some decisions in which a specific choice is necessary but IMO a sure awful lot of them, truly are up to us. I think my dh and I can fulfill God's will for our lives whether we have X many children or Y many children. I believe we can fulfill His will in our lives living in this state or that state - or working at this job or that job - I just think there's a lot of independent choice available within God's will for our lives. Just my thoughts.

[Melinda in VT]

Although I belong to a religion which does not "smile upon" birth control, that isn't what I'm thinking about with this response.

 

Rather, I always am puzzled by something which seems "unsaid" in this kind of discussion. People seem to respond as if assuming that they are totally responsible for the creation of a child. As this is labeled a Christian thread, I can remind us that no child comes into being without the will of God, and without His purposeful, creative act. God creates a new life, or refrains from creating a new life, according to His holy will.

 

I have been married for over twenty-five years now, and only four living children were granted to us. (Plus one who "went ahead of us".) There certainly was "opportunity" for more, to word it thus. Sometimes I had to remind myself that dh and I were not going to have more children just because we "said so", "decided to", "wanted to", or similar thought. We could ask, but we could not "force".

 

We never thought about financial costs with respect to something priceless.

 

I wish that we would have received more children. Sometimes I feel internally a little upset with dd, who doesn't fully grasp age/biology yet, and who cites Hannah and Sarah from the Old Testament, as the basis for her ongoing prayers that we have more children.

 

I know we are "done" because the last child returned to God before birth in 2000, and nobody ever has been sent to us after that.

 

I like your explanation here . . . but this is not what I believe.

 

Certainly, I am not 100% in control of when I conceive or don't. Things happen. But I don't believe God is responsible for every conception or lack of conception, just as I don't believe he is responsible every time I get successfully fend off or succumb to a cold. There are natural laws in play and things just happen. Sometimes in ways that seem miraculous.

[Loupelou]

While I know that this is a very personal issue between spouses and God- it has often brought me to reflection in different situations.

 

My dh and I are done because we feel our family is now complete, and due to health issues brought on and exacerbated by pregnancy. We can be excellent parents both physically, spiritually, and emotionally to the children we have now and we are not willing to jeopardize that. We have peace with this decision.

 

However, I often wonder that I do not hear anyone discussing "natural" laws concerning this subject. If you have unprotected s*x you run the chance of becoming pregnant, not necessarily because this is what God wants but because it is the consequence of a "natural" law, His law. I also have to say in regards to Free Will, it is, I believe, one of the greatest gifts bestowed upon us by a loving Heavenly Father and I believe that He will not, nor cannot circumvent that "law" either. I say cannot because it is another law which God Himself decreed and if He were to rescind it that would negate the laws upon which this world was created, in fact the very reason for why it was created. I'm not saying that people do not become pregnant almost "miraculously", it's happened to me too!:001_smile: But, my heart and mind was also ready to accept that situation as well.

 

I'm just trying to point out that if even God Himself did not follow the natural order of things, which He has set up, He would cease to be God. Christ came to satisfy the demands of justice, through mercy. God didn't just say, "oh, well". He set it up so that there could be a balance and each law was satisfied. Why else would He be so angered at sexual promiscuity, and the misuse of procreative powers? Two unwed teenagers have unprotected s*x, do you think God wants them to go through the pain of that experience? Do you think He wants to send one of His beloved spirit children into the world and into that situation? Of course not, but again He must follow His laws, the laws of the universe He created.

 

I'm rambling, and letting my beliefs hang out:D! I welcome any other insights as well. I currently have a similar situation in my family that has lead me to ponder these things of late.

[Jayne J]

I can agree with this. Even in the Bible we see many different sizes of families and cannot biblically say that everyone is supposed to have 20 children. Again, it's all about the heart and are you open to having God control every part of your life? It's not my plan, it's His and I have to submit to Him in every way. I agree with what you said about BC. I can't say that BC is God's plan to help Him in His plan to prevent children, that's our choice. Some things are our choice and then God shows that He's still in control despite those choices. (refer to the post regarding the three people she knew who tried to control it and ended up having a child anyway) I love that! Also, my mom always said I was the 1% that got by the diaphram (sp?) so God definitely wanted me to happen and she is so glad He did! I'm all ready for that, it's the planning part that I'm struggling with. I'm done, dh is not, but I want God to surprise me and not plan for it. I would be good with that situation.

So, are you saying that your husband wants to actively pursue more children, and you prefer simply to let nature take it's course and see what happens? If so, (please forgive me if this is off base,) it seems to me that the question is not really about children at all, but about your relationship with your spouse, and about how the two of you decide the big questions of marriage together. That is of course a whole different can of worms, but perhaps looking at it from the point of view of marriage rather than that of childbearing might help? And pray always, together and alone.

[the4Rs]

I want to be done having children. I have had two and had great pregnancies and not a lot of trouble with deliveries but they weren't fun for me and I couldn't wait to be done. I want to be done having them. I do not want to be pregnant again (however, if I do get pregant, I'll be happy with the new life entrusted to us) but we are never going to TRY again. We both agreed early in marriage that we'd get pregnant in our 20's and raise them in our 30's. We are 30 this year.

 

That said, I am so in love with adoption and just praying that God would lay that on my husband's heart. I want to adopt siblings from Ethiopia. Crazy, I know. I'd love nothing more than to go from a family of four to a family of six or seven. And I feel like I had two children by birth and got to experience that joy and now I'd love to experience adoption as that is what most closely resembles our relationship with Christ. We are adopted into His family. Ok I am rambling, but will stop now.

[Dianne-TX]

So, are you saying that your husband wants to actively pursue more children, and you prefer simply to let nature take it's course and see what happens? If so, (please forgive me if this is off base,) it seems to me that the question is not really about children at all, but about your relationship with your spouse, and about how the two of you decide the big questions of marriage together. That is of course a whole different can of worms, but perhaps looking at it from the point of view of marriage rather than that of childbearing might help? And pray always, together and alone.

 

No, not let nature takes it course. We are stewards of what the Lord gives us and the choices we are to make. It's not a question of our relationship because we (dh and I) are both journeying through making sense of how to determine when our childbearing days have ended. We both were through and have been through since our dd was born 6 years ago, but lately he's been desiring another. I've done the same thing in the past, but since have been completely through. I went through the thoughts, "I can't be done having children", etc., etc. But, the desire to truly try to have another wasn't there and it wasn't for my dh. However, it's just now that I'm starting to wonder if God is working through my dh for us to really have another and He is working on my heart. I guess I've never purposely "given" Him my womb, so to speak, even though I would never limit what He gives as far a child goes. (i.e.. I would NEVER end a pregnancy because it wasn't convenient for us, etc.) I am completely open to another child if God so chooses to give us one. When I stated that I would like to be surprised I meant that I'm not yet in the mindset to "try" for another, thus plan another. A surprise would be wonderfully accepted! So, no, it's not a relationship thing, it's more of a heart thing and how we should approach this decision for the Lord. My dh is in complete agreement with whatever we are both led to do. We are not seperate on this. He's not adamant about having another. He wants the Lord to lead us to make the decision to try. He wants us to not take the control upon ourselves, even though we have a responsibility obviously. So, again, it's a heart thing and how the Lord may just be working in our hearts to give Him this part that maybe we haven't ever purposely done, even if that means we will not have anymore children. Of course, that doesn't mean that I have to purposely give God my womb in order for Him to allow us to have a child. I'm not saying that. But, it's an obedience issue and am I willing to say that the Lord is truly in control of this instead of acting and feeling like we are in control. So, I guess I'm seeing it more as another place in my walk with the Lord that He wants me to be completely faithful and obedient and not think that I'm naively in control. It's been nice to see how others have navigated through this decision and I can glean from their experience and wisdom.

[Dianne-TX]

Here's John Piper's article on the subject, a view I tend to agree with:

 

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Articles/ByDate/2006/1440_Does_the_Bible_permit_birth_control/

 

I also appreciate Doug Wilson's thoughts on the subject. Though I suppose there will be those here who do not. :)

 

http://credenda.org/issues/18-4husbandry.php

 

Both articles seem to me very balanced, thoughtful ways to think through family planning issues as Christians.

 

Jami,

 

I read both of these and they both answered my questions and even corrected some things I was thinking and feeling. John Piper is usually one I go to for clarity on biblical things and this one is no different. Thank you again for posting these. I will share them with my dh and we will both be praying and asking the Lord to help us have peace with the decision that we feel He is showing us. We've been on the end of both spectrums (no more vs. how ever many) and just need to have God show us His will for *US*. These articles also helped me to see how we are stewards of what He has already given us and not necessarily sitting there waiting to give us more when we should have used wisdom to stop. I don't know if I worded that correctly and I hope it doesn't start a debate because I don't want it to. I liked the analogy of a field and planting, but also how His plan for a quiver full is different for everyone. Again, as I keep repeating, it's a heart thing and how He is leading each family, not an act seperate from being a wise steward. This has been a wonderful journey of trying to line up my understanding with God's and how flawed my understanding is and how immature I still am. Thank you, Lord, for your patience with me and your forgivness for my ignorance.

[gingersmom]

I stopped having children because I spent over $100,000 of my own money on therapy for my son.

 

I was near bankruptcy and could not afford to do that for another child should they need it.

[MistyJ]

Ohh, what a painful topic for me. We are Catholic and expected to have a large family, but a series of medical issues allowed us only two. When i had to have a hysterectomy, I wasn't too worried, because we were in the process of getting certified to adopt through the state.

 

Well, trying to adopt has been a cruel, painful process. And we're Catholic, where a two-child household in quite countercultural.

 

This is just my small-family perspective, but it seems to me that parents of large families sometimes forget that they didn't *choose* a big family, God chose.

 

The flip side to being open to as many children as God allows, is accepting God's will when He allows very few.

 

Those who pray, pray for me on this. I can't get over it, and my youngest is 9.

[Jayne J]

Dianne, thanks for clarifying, and sorry if I in any way offended you. I am glad to hear that you and your dh are in agreement--that is always a difficult hurdle when spouses are disagreeing, instead of just searching for answers together. God bless you (in whatever way He chooses;)).:001_smile:

[mommylawyer]

My DH and I also practice NFP. I am expecting our fourth child - all four (actually, include a fifth which was miscarried) of our children were conceived when the time was right for us.

 

I hope this isn't my last pregnancy. I don't feel that it is, but I don't know. We're open to having more and if that's God's will, then it will happen.

 

I'm finding the discussions about the quiver full philosophy extremely interesting. I'd never considered it as a plan for us and for having children, and I've also always thought of having a full quiver as having a very large family. I believe that if God wants us to have more children, we will; but we also use our free will (and the natural laws applied to that will) to practice NFP to prevent and to cause pregnancy at certain times as well.

 

~And, MistyJ, you'll be in my prayers.

[Geo]

Thank you. You are right. I'm really feeling like this an area of COMPLETE faith and I'm fearful to go there. It is quite sad that I'm fearful. Is He growing me and trying to stretch my faith even if we don't have more? Does He just want me to let go of this completely? I'm thinking He is. My DH feels differently in this area. I'm the one struggling. I'm also feeling that this is an area of stretching my submission to my DH. I would appreciate prayers.

 

I believe that He is the Author and Finisher of our faith. Just keep listening and ask Him to change your heart where He wants it changed. If He leads you, you can trust the destination. I am praying.

 

 

Geo

Edited August 12, 2009 by Geo
spelling

[unsinkable]

Ohh, what a painful topic for me. We are Catholic and expected to have a large family, but a series of medical issues allowed us only two. When i had to have a hysterectomy, I wasn't too worried, because we were in the process of getting certified to adopt through the state.

 

Well, trying to adopt has been a cruel, painful process. And we're Catholic, where a two-child household in quite countercultural.

 

This is just my small-family perspective, but it seems to me that parents of large families sometimes forget that they didn't *choose* a big family, God chose.

 

The flip side to being open to as many children as God allows, is accepting God's will when He allows very few.

 

Those who pray, pray for me on this. I can't get over it, and my youngest is 9.

 

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Geo]

Where does the concept of free will come in? I truly believe that we get to choose - God does not dictate every thing in our lives and the number of children we have falls into that. Sure some might decide for themselves that they want to have as many as possible, or some might decide to just "see what happens", but if people aren't called to that - then I don't think there is any reason to feel bad about it. It's ok for us to decide.

 

Absolutely. I deeply value the gift of free will. So does God...he bestowed it. However, for some, the sense that the Lord desires that you follow a direction you are not currently going, but he will not compel you to go. It is a voluntary opportunity to partake in a specific plan for your individual family. Certainly, some folks have had their wills "intervened" while others are "intersected" in a different way. Some never feel it becomes an issue at all. Compunction has nothing to do with it.

 

Geo

Edited August 12, 2009 by Geo

[Jami]

Jami,

 

I read both of these and they both answered my questions and even corrected some things I was thinking and feeling. John Piper is usually one I go to for clarity on biblical things and this one is no different. Thank you again for posting these. I will share them with my dh and we will both be praying and asking the Lord to help us have peace with the decision that we feel He is showing us. We've been on the end of both spectrums (no more vs. how ever many) and just need to have God show us His will for *US*. These articles also helped me to see how we are stewards of what He has already given us and not necessarily sitting there waiting to give us more when we should have used wisdom to stop. I don't know if I worded that correctly and I hope it doesn't start a debate because I don't want it to. I liked the analogy of a field and planting, but also how His plan for a quiver full is different for everyone. Again, as I keep repeating, it's a heart thing and how He is leading each family, not an act seperate from being a wise steward. This has been a wonderful journey of trying to line up my understanding with God's and how flawed my understanding is and how immature I still am. Thank you, Lord, for your patience with me and your forgivness for my ignorance.

 

 

I'm so glad they were helpful to you, Dianne. I've been on the pendulum swinging back and forth since our oldest was born and both of these articles are ones I return to for peace. I'm reminded that children are indeed a blessing and a gift and it's always wrong to not trust God. But He also calls us to be wise stewards and to parent well and calls women to submit to their husbands. My husband increasingly believes that he is the best dad at our current family-size and that more would not be wise. I certainly want him to feel that he can train and bring up the children we already have. He also knows my limits better than I do I think. I'm always going to be mush at the thought of babies and tend to overlook that there are 18 years of parenting asked of me, not just baby cuddles. ;)

[Geo]

Ohh, what a painful topic for me. We are Catholic and expected to have a large family, but a series of medical issues allowed us only two. When i had to have a hysterectomy, I wasn't too worried, because we were in the process of getting certified to adopt through the state.

 

Well, trying to adopt has been a cruel, painful process. And we're Catholic, where a two-child household in quite countercultural.

 

This is just my small-family perspective, but it seems to me that parents of large families sometimes forget that they didn't *choose* a big family, God chose.

 

The flip side to being open to as many children as God allows, is accepting God's will when He allows very few.

 

Those who pray, pray for me on this. I can't get over it, and my youngest is 9.

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

So true! Your heart really comes through!

 

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Geo

[Joanne]

The Bible is clear about having children and that we should be fruitful and multiply and that children are a blessing from the Lord, so why do we put a stop to when we have children? God opened and closed many wombs in the Bible. How do we really let it go and let Him decide how many children we will have? Are we to use wisdom in this situation to decide how many children we have or are we to leave that completely to Him even if we feel that we cannot afford more children? How do you come to peace with this situation in your life? Do you leave it up to Him completely and go to Him when you feel fearful and overwhelmed or do you use wisdom and believe that those feelings are an indication of not needing to have more? I hope I'm making sense. Thanks.

 

God gave us information, fertility signals and a brain. The fact that children are a blessing does not mean that allowing or seeking more children is closer to a righteous life.

 

Through prayer and partnership with your spouse, I believe that each family has their unique and right for them answer to your questions.

 

The extremes on this continuum (extreme quiverful and extreme kid-free types) are equally icky, cultlike and unhealthy.

[Osmosis Mom]

From a Muslim point of view then unborn life is sacred unless the mother's health is at risk. She comes first (this would apply to early abortion as well, *if* her life is medically at risk).

 

Number of kids would depend on how the family is able to cope emotionally and mentally with the number they have. We are allowed certain forms of birth control, while God says to us that if He wants life then a baby will still be able to be conceived. Our submission then means that we can prevent, but we can't abort in case a pregnancy occurred.

 

But we are encouraged to choose big families, but it really is a private matter. The only reason you can't choose to *not* have more kids is for economic reasons as we do believe God provides. I agree with the poster who said that she believes there are enough reources globally; it is us humans who are wasting them away and not using them wisely....