Anybody else have a child that is just... 'not right' ?

[cin]

Oldest DD is turning 8 in 2 weeks. Since she was 18 mos old, I've known that SOMETHING is just not right. I'm not sure what it is though. DH thinks I'm crazy. Omega Oils make her TONS better. I've read many books. Out Of Sync Child, Explosive Child, books about hyper-sensitive children, books on ADD, books on depression in children etc. Nothing seems to really peg her, though.

 

She gets set off by something, and then goes into a funk. These are not as bad with the fish oil. Today she got into one because of her math work. She got distracted adn it took her 'too long' to do it. Then she started. 'I don't know anything. You don't like me' and so on. One day a couple of weeks ago she got so worked up that she could not be talked down. And she was spanking herself. becasue she was 'bad'. I've talked to a counselor that I know, and his answer is to get her to talk about her feelings. I've tried that. It doens't work. She just keeps repeating the Mantra of the Day, over and over.

 

She is a bright child, and most of the time she is a great kid. But every so often, maybe 2X week, something sets her off and the day can be ruined.

 

In addition to her funks, she is a slob, and cannot follow directions to save her life. The other day I asked her to put her game away. She sat it down on the couch next to her and got up to walk away. I asked her (nicely) if that was away. She laughed and said no, turned around and walked right past it again. This is NOT unusual. One other thing that drives us all crazy is the way she completely blocks us out. And it goes beyond selective hearing. Her sister can be standing right next to her screaming her name, and she doesn't respond at all.

 

I am so frustrated. I dont' know where to go for help. I feel like, if I take her anywhere, they will laugh us out of the office. I know it's relatively mild, but it is driving us crazy, and I honestly don't like her when she acts out.

 

Even right now, she had a funk this morning. Now, she's playing oh so sweetly with her sister, and I am still ticked at her. But I am also pacifying her so I don't have to go through this again. She gives new meaning to the phrase 'Pick Your Battles'. Right now she is 'cooking' something in the kitchen. I don't know what, and I know that I have asked them not to do it anymore (there was flour EVERYWHERE one day). But don't want to pi$$ her off again. I cannot deal with another emotional meltdown. And all the negativity that comes with it.

 

I know that there are many moms who would LOVE to have a meltdown 1 or 2X a week. I know that a disorganized kid would be a delight for some. And I don't mind it, for the most part. I'm thankful that she is healthy and relatively 'normal'. But I want to help her be the very best she can be, and honestly, I'm worried about the teen years. And I'd like to nip this in the bud before she hits 12.

 

OK, I've got it off my chest. Thanks for listening. I REALLY appreciate it! If anyone has any suggestions, that would be the icing on the cake.

[LibraryLover]

If you haven't already read it, you might want to check out The Highly Sensitive Child.

 

Does anxiety run in your family?

[cin]

If you haven't already read it, you might want to check out The Highly Sensitive Child.

 

Does anxiety run in your family?

 

I forgot to add that she was adopted at a year old. Many things happened in that first year. Including 8 broken bones. Who knows what's going on in her head!

[Denisemomof4]

as her mother you need to trust your instincts.

 

Out of Sync Child - is this on sensory issues? That's what I was thinking. Is there a possibility she plays it up to get her own way? I have seen this in children.

 

Food allergies/sensitivities can do this, too. Have you ever read about that?

[Denisemomof4]

I forgot to add that she was adopted at a year old. Many things happened in that first year. Including 8 broken bones. Who knows what's going on in her head!

 

aaaaaaaah. Does she have RAD? Attachment issues? Trauma?

 

some have changed diet, added supplementss, including fish oil, and targeted amino therapies. There are yahoo groups for things like this. Do a search!

[LibraryLover]

Oh!

Edited July 28, 2009 by LibraryLover

[Caroline]

My next door neighbor adopted two children. The girls were two when they were adopted. One has issues similar to your discription of your daughter. She has been diagnosed with an attachment disorder. I know that the whole family is involved in counseling. That is all I know about it. Just an idea. I don't want to diagnose over the internet or anything like that. But I also want to say to you that I think the world of people who adopt children. You all amaze me. And in my line of work, I get to meet people who adopt non-newborns. You all are special people.

[Scarlett]

I forgot to add that she was adopted at a year old. Many things happened in that first year. Including 8 broken bones. Who knows what's going on in her head!

 

I already knew she was adopted but couldn't remember at what age. Up to age 18 months are critical times in a bonding process. I really have no advice since it is not an area i am that familiar with, but one of my first thoughts was an attachment disorder to a mild degree.

[JennC]

after you mentioned Adoption, I wanted to refer you to a very helpful book that I have read (several times)

What Every Adoptive Parent Needs to Know by Kate Cremer-Vogel.

It is a lot narrative, a lot everyday, instant things you can do to help.

[nmoira]

:grouphug:

 

I've talked to a counselor that I know, and his answer is to get her to talk about her feelings. I've tried that. It doens't work. She just keeps repeating the Mantra of the Day, over and over.

It's not easy to talk about or even label feelings at her age, especially if she has shame and perfectionist issues. Has she seen a therapist? It sounds like she's got multiple issues to deal with and that it might be beyond her (and your) capacity to do so without help. I'd strongly recommend considering both individual and family therapy if you can manage it.

[KarenNC]

A friend has a child who has anxiety issues and is highly sensitive to any food additives (particularly red dye). She said taking her off all artificial dyes and flavors has helped tremendously with the meltdowns and anxiety.

[cin]

:grouphug:

 

It's not easy to talk about or even label feelings at her age, especially if she has shame and perfectionist issues. Has she seen a therapist? It sounds like she's got multiple issues to deal with and that it might be beyond her (and your) capacity to do so without help. I'd strongly recommend considering both individual and family therapy if you can manage it.

 

 

I've been leaning towards some sort of therapy. I think that is the best route to take. We've also been thinking about a neurodevelopmentalist.

 

We have a great hospital here, Children's Hospital Medical Center of Cincinnati, but I'm just not sure which way to go. Therapy? Psychology, Psychiatry, physical, and if we start therapy, will it cause more trouble? <sigh> so much to thin about. And we've already got $6k in braces ahead of us. Per. CHild.

[johnandtinagilbert]

That sounds "off" enough to me that I'd seek professional help. The braces could wait if necessary. I imagine both of your mental well being will do you all much more good than pretty teeth :)

 

:grouphug: and kudos for sharing on this tough topic.

[SquirrellyMama]

I have a child who sounds a lot like that and wasn't adopted. I have no advice just understanding.

 

Kelly

[gingersmom]

I would find a child psychologist for her to talk with. They may be able to give you some insight (after some time) as to what may/may not be going on.

 

Your pediatrician may be able to recommend one or maybe someone in your neighborhood.

 

My daughter adores her therapist. She has been seeing her for many years and I am sure she will see her for many more. Money well spent.

[OHGrandma]

There are enough studies showing Omega 3 oils are effective for depression, both unipolar & bipolar. If you see a response, keep it up. I'd also get with a counselor, preferably one who can refer you to a child psychiatrist if that is ever needed.

[Denisemomof4]

I've been leaning towards some sort of therapy. I think that is the best route to take. We've also been thinking about a neurodevelopmentalist.

 

We have a great hospital here, Children's Hospital Medical Center of Cincinnati, but I'm just not sure which way to go. Therapy? Psychology, Psychiatry, physical, and if we start therapy, will it cause more trouble? <sigh> so much to thin about. And we've already got $6k in braces ahead of us. Per. CHild.

 

there is an online neuro reorg yahoo group that may be of help to you. I've heard neurodevelopment works WONDERS but it's tough to implement. They start off having the child crawl around and such. It didn't make sense to me but the more I read about it, the more it sounded legit. It helps to rewire the brain by having the child do all the steps they SHOULD have done as a baby. I did not choose the therapy yet but bought a video called Move To Learn and it's by a woman in Australia. It helps with learning disabilities but the movements are almost identical to neuro reorg. Of course going to actual neuro reorg would be an individualized plan for your child so that would be better, but you're talking about 1 - 1.5 hours PER DAY of work.

 

Also, I'm a HUGE fan of neurofeedback to help rewire the brain. We're actually going to buy our equipment and go for training because we have too many people in the house it could help. It's just cheaper to go that route for us, and will safe on HUGE amounts of time.

[LizzyBee]

Some things that come to mind:

1. Has she had a complete and thorough physical exam? I'd want bloodwork for allergies, thyroid, sugar, iron, and more.

2. Sensory integration has already been mentioned.

3. Two of my kids have auditory processing disorder, and parts of your post resonate with some of what I've seen in my kids. APD is evaluated/diagnosed by specially trained audiologists.

4. If all the above don't disclose physical or processing issues, I'd pursue therapy.

 

:grouphug:

[TraceyS/FL]

Yup, and the answers are starting to roll in - but the "big picture" is missing.

 

We've cut down on our "rage incidents"/"meltdowns" A LOT since i started cooking 99% of things from scratch.

 

We see a Developmental Pediatrician on wednesday, hoping he directs us to the next step. I am not having any luck in getting her a neurology referral - the Ped is hoping he has more pull to get it for us.

 

ANYWAY, :grouphug:

 

Oh and i've found the book, "When the Brain Can't Hear" quite interesting.... not sure if it would be applicable, but what is something else to put on the "to read" list huh? LOL!

[katilac]

What raises the red flag for me is you saying that you're treading lightly in order not to 'set her off' again. When you're at that point, it needs to be addressed, imo. I think it's very wise to address it before the storminess of adolescence.

 

That doesn't necessarily mean therapy, or starting with therapy as the first option. I'd likely start with doing a lot of research, finding some yahoo groups, making a plan of action. You might also pay for a few consultations with a therapist, where you bring a detailed history/diary, possibly even video, but don't bring dd or begin a course of therapy.

 

If she reacts well to the fish oil, I would definitely look at other aspects of diet. Food dyes are a trigger for many children.

 

Therapy would definitely be my next step if I didn't see concrete results relatively quickly. I would go to the therapist without my dd first, until I was sure that I felt comfortable with this person and their expertise.

 

I'd want to make sure that I used a therapist who wasn't overly quick to dx - - I wouldn't want them to jump on RAD just b/c of your dd's background, for example, b/c it's entirely possible some or all of the issues have nothing to do with that. It certainly could have something to do with it, but I wouldn't want to overlook simpler possibilities, like OCD, either.

 

Bottom line, the mommy instinct is rarely completely wrong. If you feel that something is off, I'd pursue it.

[laughing lioness]

Have you looked at attachment disorder? Fairly common among kids who are adopted. Perhaps find a therapist who specializes in adoption/abuse issues. In agreement with others who say follow your Momma instincts!

[Mad Jenny Flint]

They have one of the best child psychology departments in the country. My degree is in psychology (child specialization) and cincinatti was a much-sought-after internship placement some years ago.

 

I would take her. They will not laugh you out of the office. They will work with you and help you to find ways to more effectively help your dd. They will refer you to other specialists if they find it necessary. They are there for you. Psychologists will talk to children, but really? They work much more effectively by helping parents, and getting parents on board with helping the child.

[East Coast Sue]

I have 3 children, one child through adoption (with RAD) and the treading lightly statement- I can relate to- it is a warning sign that you do need help. Please get help before she reaches adolescence. We've done the psychological & neurodevelopment therapy and it is amazing. We have also had to go preservative & dye free, sugar free, yeast free, and potato, wheat, dairy, corn, peanut free! It is amazing how much better off our child is with therapy & diet changes. I wish the best for you & your dd.

 

Sue

[cillakat]

<<I've talked to a counselor that I know, and his answer is to get her to talk about her feelings.>>

 

Generally n ot helpful. It just helps them and us be more entrenched in what's 'wrong'. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is often the most effective tx for a wide variety of affective issues.

 

I'd just get an evaluation.....then you'll know where to start.

 

Is she getting enough D? ie 1000 IU per 25 lbs body weight on the days she doesn't get midday sun in a bathingsuit....

 

:)

k

[HayesW]

Is there a possibility she is having seizures? The "blocking out" sounds like something my baby sister did as a child. My mom finally realized that she wasn't just ignoring or being obnoxious. She was having petite mal seizures, often the doctors called them "absence" seizures, because she just wasn't there. She was later diagnosed with an allergy to aspirin which cause her to have tinnitis, and then would start a seizure. After just a couple of years on medication, she never had seizures again.

 

Much of the behavior you describe could be post seizure behavior.

 

I hope whatever it is, you are able to diagnose and help her.

[Ottakee]

I agree with a full medical workup and then counseling and maybe a psychiatrist.

 

First rule out seizures, thyroid, blood sugar, vision/hearing, food allergies/intolerances.

 

From there---do you have any birth family history? Was she prenatally exposed to drugs/alcohol? How about mental illness in the birth family? Any other concerns?

 

The "walking on eggshells" is very common in families where a child has bipolar or a mood disorder. That is what we had here. Then again we also had 3 genetic disorders, seizures, thyroid and other issues to address.

[cillakat]

some have changed diet, added supplementss, including fish oil, and targeted amino therapies.

 

certainly that can't hurt and may help *a lot*. however, when there is brain development from early (even fetal) malnutrition issues, trauma, alcohol or drug exposures some issuesn't aren't very fixable;/ But it's worth pulling out all of the stops.

 

I'd get the book _depression free naturally_. Even though it's not depresion based on what you've said or read, the book will be helpful. It covers just about everything wrt affect, mood stability, various 'mental' health issues that are really just physical ones..... Saved my life. Seriously.

 

I'd get to work asap with a great child psychologist and child psychiatrist - preferably ones associated with a major research university. Brain imagining studies could be very helpful.

 

:)

K

 

:)

K

[cillakat]

Please get help before she reaches adolescence.

 

I so agree. Whether it's RAD, depression, anxiety, or whatever.....before adolescence.

 

:)

K

[bkpan]

Oldest DD is turning 8 in 2 weeks. Since she was 18 mos old, I've known that SOMETHING is just not right. I'm not sure what it is though. DH thinks I'm crazy. Omega Oils make her TONS better. I've read many books. Out Of Sync Child, Explosive Child, books about hyper-sensitive children, books on ADD, books on depression in children etc. Nothing seems to really peg her, though.

 

She gets set off by something, and then goes into a funk. These are not as bad with the fish oil. Today she got into one because of her math work. She got distracted adn it took her 'too long' to do it. Then she started. 'I don't know anything. You don't like me' and so on. One day a couple of weeks ago she got so worked up that she could not be talked down. And she was spanking herself. becasue she was 'bad'. I've talked to a counselor that I know, and his answer is to get her to talk about her feelings. I've tried that. It doens't work. She just keeps repeating the Mantra of the Day, over and over.

 

She is a bright child, and most of the time she is a great kid. But every so often, maybe 2X week, something sets her off and the day can be ruined.

 

In addition to her funks, she is a slob, and cannot follow directions to save her life. The other day I asked her to put her game away. She sat it down on the couch next to her and got up to walk away. I asked her (nicely) if that was away. She laughed and said no, turned around and walked right past it again. This is NOT unusual. One other thing that drives us all crazy is the way she completely blocks us out. And it goes beyond selective hearing. Her sister can be standing right next to her screaming her name, and she doesn't respond at all.

 

I am so frustrated. I dont' know where to go for help. I feel like, if I take her anywhere, they will laugh us out of the office. I know it's relatively mild, but it is driving us crazy, and I honestly don't like her when she acts out.

 

Even right now, she had a funk this morning. Now, she's playing oh so sweetly with her sister, and I am still ticked at her. But I am also pacifying her so I don't have to go through this again. She gives new meaning to the phrase 'Pick Your Battles'. Right now she is 'cooking' something in the kitchen. I don't know what, and I know that I have asked them not to do it anymore (there was flour EVERYWHERE one day). But don't want to pi$$ her off again. I cannot deal with another emotional meltdown. And all the negativity that comes with it.

 

I know that there are many moms who would LOVE to have a meltdown 1 or 2X a week. I know that a disorganized kid would be a delight for some. And I don't mind it, for the most part. I'm thankful that she is healthy and relatively 'normal'. But I want to help her be the very best she can be, and honestly, I'm worried about the teen years. And I'd like to nip this in the bud before she hits 12.

 

OK, I've got it off my chest. Thanks for listening. I REALLY appreciate it! If anyone has any suggestions, that would be the icing on the cake.

Boy, you totally just described my 8yo ds. He is a twin, and his meltdowns also started around 18 mos or so. I spent years just thinking he is more difficult than the others, but I should have trusted in that mommy instinct more. I KNEW that something wasnt quite right.

 

So, just last year we waited 6 mos for an apt. with a developmental pediatrician at Vanderbilt, and she basically recommended therapy for him. There is some sort of informal scale to determine Aspergers (he had like 9 out of 13), but no clear diagnosis. I resisted the idea of therapy because my background is in mental health counseling, and I just thought that I could handle it :sad: So, I finally came to my senses and we actually go to our first apt. this week.

 

Interesting, but this thread has helped me, because I am wondering if some level of attachment disorder could be affecting him. He as a twin, and we had a 3yo and a 1yo when they were born. Needless to say, he never received the level of attention he probably needed as a baby. :001_unsure:

 

Sorry about no real advice, but you are not alone, and I hope that you find clear answers to help your dd.

 

Kim

[lulubelle]

Sounds like my 7 yo ds. He is not adopted. My difficulty with him started around 18 months. I did attachment style parenting with him from birth! We are currently deciding on who to have do a neuropsych work up for him. Hopefully it will help him and us! He is a lot like his dad!

[keptwoman]

We have a son, not adopted, with many similar issues to what you describe.

 

He saw a educational psychologist a few years ago and was diagnosed with learning difficulties of various types including Auditory Processing Disorder. I've never needed to get treatment for that because for us just knowing it was there and how to work around it has been enough. If we ever get to the point that we need help for that we will get it.

 

But the treading lightly thing, I can so relate to that. It was at that point, when we were tiptoeing around him so as not to set him off on a wild rage that we decided we needed help. We have just had 4 sessions with a psychologist recommended by our GP and it was the best thing, we have a changed boy on our hands! I should have done it a long, long time ago.

 

So I'm saying, as others are, go get help now, before the traumatic teenage years. There's probably a whole bunch of issues contributing to what's going on with her, and until you get help to pin them down you are rather powerless to really help. I don't know your medical system but I'd say either your pediatrician or a psychologist would be a good place to start and if you need to see other people they can refer you on.

[tex-mex]

I've been leaning towards some sort of therapy. I think that is the best route to take. We've also been thinking about a neurodevelopmentalist.

 

We have a great hospital here, Children's Hospital Medical Center of Cincinnati, but I'm just not sure which way to go. Therapy? Psychology, Psychiatry, physical, and if we start therapy, will it cause more trouble? <sigh> so much to thin about. And we've already got $6k in braces ahead of us. Per. CHild.

 

If it helps, a session for testing with a Clinical Pediatric Neuropsychologist would be ideal to figure out the situation. They take in the doctor's file, school records, your personal stories and concerns... do a 5-6 hour battery of tests and evaluation. Then she/he turns out a 20+ page "diagnosis" of what is going on with letters to show school (IEP) for special ed accomodations, etc. We did this for our son. He has a rare genetic disease and the brain damage from his coma caused developmental delays, aggravated his underlying OCD/anxiety, borderline Asperger's/PDD-NOS, expressive writing disorder... etc. All from her evaluation. It did cost us $3000 (back in 2004) to get the evaluation. Worth every penny!

 

This is who did our evaluation when we lived in CA. She is wonderful!

http://karenschiltz.com/bios/karen.htm

[Peela]

I dont know....I have a difficult child though and your post reminded me of something I read about last week that I have been trying to put into effect. When a child plays up, misbehaves, throws a tantrum or puts strong pressure on a parent....the parent will often experience a strong emotion in reponse to it (disappointment, rage, irritation, hurt etc). What most of us do, is try to fix the child "out there" in order to not have to keep feeling the painful emotion the child has evoked in us . Allowing ourselves to feel our own emotions, have a cry, and feel our anger and frustration away from the child, or in the presence of the child without acting them out on the child, means that the emotion the child is triggering in us, gets diffused. That gives us a different place to respond to the child from, and it also means the child is not hooked into provoking because the emotions that are triggered in the parent are not being triggered- they are being felt.

 

What that looks like in real life, is, I might take some time out on my own bedroom to take some deep breaths and see what the child is triggering in me. Could be hurt. Could be rage. Might be I realise I havent eaten and I need to take care of myself. Might be I had an argument with my dh this morning and my child is testing whether I still love him. Might be old childhood wounds. Once I have felt to the bottom of the feelings and the furstration has passed somewhat- I can usually see better how to deal with the child.

I have noticed since doing this in the last few days, that I am *much* less likely to give into my child's persistant and unreasonable demands that would normally wear me down and I might eventually succumb to. It's just clear to me what I need to do. My feeling is just my feeling-the child cant manipulate me because of a feeling I have if I feel the feeling instead of trying to get the child to stop making me feel the feeling. Its a subtle difference. .

Dont know if that makes sense to you.

[OhM]

I dont know....I have a difficult child though and your post reminded me of something I read about last week that I have been trying to put into effect. When a child plays up, misbehaves, throws a tantrum or puts strong pressure on a parent....the parent will often experience a strong emotion in reponse to it (disappointment, rage, irritation, hurt etc). What most of us do, is try to fix the child "out there" in order to not have to keep feeling the painful emotion the child has evoked in us . Allowing ourselves to feel our own emotions, have a cry, and feel our anger and frustration away from the child, or in the presence of the child without acting them out on the child, means that the emotion the child is triggering in us, gets diffused. That gives us a different place to respond to the child from, and it also means the child is not hooked into provoking because the emotions that are triggered in the parent are not being triggered- they are being felt.

 

What that looks like in real life, is, I might take some time out on my own bedroom to take some deep breaths and see what the child is triggering in me. Could be hurt. Could be rage. Might be I realise I havent eaten and I need to take care of myself. Might be I had an argument with my dh this morning and my child is testing whether I still love him. Might be old childhood wounds. Once I have felt to the bottom of the feelings and the furstration has passed somewhat- I can usually see better how to deal with the child.

I have noticed since doing this in the last few days, that I am *much* less likely to give into my child's persistant and unreasonable demands that would normally wear me down and I might eventually succumb to. It's just clear to me what I need to do. My feeling is just my feeling-the child cant manipulate me because of a feeling I have if I feel the feeling instead of trying to get the child to stop making me feel the feeling. Its a subtle difference. .

Dont know if that makes sense to you.

 

Wow - thanks for posting this. I just wish I'd seen it about 10 years ago. But it's definitely going to be helpful even now.

[Peri]

This sounds a little like my 5 year old boy. He can throw a fit that will last all day. When he was 3 years old all i wanted was a day without a fit. He doesn't throw average fits either. They are quite explosive. He will run screaming it doesn't matter where we are. When he gets to that point, it is SO hard to get he to calm down and listen. Its like, that's it, he's gone and out of touch. It seems like the wise thing to do at that moment is to just let him have his fit, get it all out, and then when he's calmed down talk to him. I just wish that would work. I feel like I'm the one doing something wrong. I just don't get it though. I can very easily deal with the other two kids. With him though ... I feel like he's from another planet.