CC: Do you consider "Tithe" church giving only, or do you also include...

[battlemaiden]

para-church giving?

 

Just curious.

 

Jo

[Liz CA]

para-church giving?

 

Just curious.

 

Jo

 

I consider any voluntary work and any monetary contribution to an organization/charity, that is founded on biblical principles and conducts its business accordingly, a tithe.

I'd love to adopt another child through World Vision (it's not a literal adoption but we contribute a set amount of money each month which benefits the child in terms of health care, education and clothing.) Money also gets funneled into community projects where the child is living.

 

In short, I view it as tithing and I have not had any bad dreams about it so I think it's okay with HIM - at least in our case. ;)

 

[KS_]

I only include church giving in our tithe - anything else we want to give to is in addition. I didn't always think this way, but about 7 years ago, our pastor at the time did a sermon on why he believed our entire tithe should go to support the church (I can't remember all of his reasons now, but one of the things he said was that if we didn't agree with how our church handled the money it was given, including the missions it supported, then why would we want to be members there?). I felt convicted to really trust God with providing the extra funds needed to give our full tithe to our church and still have enough to support the extra giving I wanted to do (and He has).

[Dobela]

True Biblical tithing from the old testament included everything - not just money. So, while I am a cheerful giver, and I give to my church in many ways because I can't give much money wise. Giving to my local church is my first priority though. When I do give to other organizations, I consider it extra.

[katemary63]

I consider all our giving to be our "tithe".

[KristenS]

I count anything, but I do like what kh's pastor had to say about it. Food for thought.

 

In our household, the tithe comes out of my personal part of the budget because dh is not a believer. So I tithe on my 'income', such as it is. It's not a whole lot and I have to be careful how I spend. I try to send most of it to church but sometimes I do opt for another charitable organization.

[Julie in CA]

10% right off the top, very first thing paid, is my tithe to my church.

Giving beyond that, or to other organizations, is separate. I do not count the hours of work I do as taking the place of my tithe. I've never heard of that idea before.

[abreakfromlife]

Tithe is giving to God, not to a church, so all of our giving is tithe. Since dh's hours have been cut, we've actually had to drop giving to the church and just give to our 2 Compassion kids....I just can't bear the thought of dropping them.

[coralloyd]

I consider any voluntary work and any monetary contribution to an organization/charity, that is founded on biblical principles and conducts its business accordingly, a tithe.

I'd love to adopt another child through World Vision (it's not a literal adoption but we contribute a set amount of money each month which benefits the child in terms of health care, education and clothing.) Money also gets funneled into community projects where the child is living.

 

In short, I view it as tithing and I have not had any bad dreams about it so I think it's okay with HIM - at least in our case. ;)

 

 

 

Me too.

[Harriet Vane]

Any money that is given to any church or charity is considered our tithe.

 

I have heard more than one sermon about tithing only to the local church. I can agree that is makes sense to give a majority of your tithe to the local body that is providing your spiritual support. This is my common sense opinion, not based on Scripture.

 

However, I have vehemently disagreed with every single sermon I have ever heard arguing for the tithe to be given in full to the local church--unfortunately in this area people are prone to proof-texting. In other words, it's all too common to rip a verse or verses out of their context and place a meaning on them that does NOT make sense when read IN context.

 

FWIW the whole 10% rule is also the result of proof texting. The Old Testament gives a much, much more elaborate set of guidelines for giving, and the New Testament standard is to give generously, joyfully, and sacrificially.

 

IMHO if God wanted us to specifically only give to our local church He would have said so explicitly and specifically.

[amy g.]

I've pretty much given up on giving to the church, but my husband still does. the kids and I give to individual people in trouble or secular non-profit organizations.

[Geo]

Tithes are a percentage of own's gross income, and are 10% minimum of that amount. This is done to honor God and so must be given to the church (the storehouse). This a command, and must be obeyed. To not tithe is considered to be "robbing God" by God Himself. Then there are "offerings", which is free-will giving by of a person. These may be given wherever the giver sees a need or desires to bless. No where in the Bible are the two confused. Tithe's are not for the giver to do (or give) with as he sees fit (para-church, poor, etc.)...it's NOT theirs. ...it belongs to GOD.

 

Geo

[abreakfromlife]

and so must be given to the church (the storehouse)

 

I consider the church universal to be the storehouse, and so organizations such as World Vision, Compassion, Samaritan's Purse, etc....are all part of the church and are part of God's storehouse.

[claire up north]

I didn't always think this way, but about 7 years ago, our pastor at the time did a sermon on why he believed our entire tithe should go to support the church (I can't remember all of his reasons now, but one of the things he said was that if we didn't agree with how our church handled the money it was given, including the missions it supported, then why would we want to be members there?).

 

I have found that there is not a church to be found with which I agree with entirely. The church is composed of humans, and, like all of us, is pulled in many different directions. As long as the preponderance of the money is being spent in a manner that I agree with and they aren't spending the money on anything I'm actually OPPOSED to, then I'm OK supporting the church--even if I don't give my entire tithe there.

 

Also, I think God lays certain things on individual hearts. We budget part of our tithe (about 80%) to go to the church, and the rest we spend as the spirit moves us throughout the year. Sometimes this means that we give extra to the church; sometimes we support some other non-profit; sometimes we just give the money to someone who needs it.

[battlemaiden]

I actually love the work that our church does. They give more money away than they spend on salary, mortgage, etc. They have built churches and orphanages in Uganda, they run the food bank distribution for the region, and they are starting ESL classes in the fall. No navel gazing. They do good things. But we also feel called to give to a school in Haiti, and contribute to the Ultrasound program through Focus on the Family. We give joyfully, and we feel honored to participate in these programs.

 

I do agree with Strider that the 10% tithe we all assume as settled, isn't as settled as it may seem. I just wonder how people look at their charitble giving in terms of the actual word "tithe." Can you tell I'm working on the family budget this week? :D

 

Thanks, everyone, for all the great input.

 

Jo

[KingM]

I consider the church universal to be the storehouse, and so organizations such as World Vision, Compassion, Samaritan's Purse, etc....are all part of the church and are part of God's storehouse.

 

I agree. Certainly if God were running a church Himself, He would be deserving of all tithes. As all the others are run by humans, no matter how good intentioned they are, then I don't see the difference in tithing directly to your denomination or to donating to other worthy organizations as you have stated.

 

(With the caveat that of course the church to which you belong needs money from its members sufficient to maintain the work of that congregation.)

[Dawn E]

We've always considered the 10% of our gross income as a "tithe" which we give to our local body church. Charitable donations or support for missionary/ministering friends, for us, are offerings separate from the tithe.

[Hillary in KS]

We give money monthly to our church, several missionaries, and a child we sponsor from Compassion International. We consider all of it as our tithe, as it is money we are giving to those who are serving the Lord.

 

We also give money to other charities, but that is above our tithe.

[DawnM]

I count anything that goes to further the work of the global "church" (ie: body of Christ.)

 

Dawn

[herbalgirl]

We only consider what we give to our church our tithe (10%). Anything else we give is considered above and beyond.

[Peek a Boo]

Tithes are a percentage of own's gross income, and are 10% minimum of that amount. This is done to honor God and so must be given to the church (the storehouse). This a command, and must be obeyed. To not tithe is considered to be "robbing God" by God Himself. Then there are "offerings", which is free-will giving by of a person. These may be given wherever the giver sees a need or desires to bless. No where in the Bible are the two confused. Tithe's are not for the giver to do (or give) with as he sees fit (para-church, poor, etc.)...it's NOT theirs. ...it belongs to GOD.

 

 

As a command, the tithe was to be given ONLY to the Levitical Priests, and was ONLY for agricultural/livestock/crops. Paul would not have tithed as a tent maker, and Christ would not have tithed as a Carpenter. unless i missed a verse somewhere? maybe Eliana can chime in on the history of the tithe ;)

 

The current Jewish practice [as i understand it] is that it would be breaking the command to tithe to the local synagogue because the rules for tithing are VERY explicit: there is no Levitical Priesthood to receive the tithe.

even the "robbing God" verses were directed to the Levitical Priests --what they were robbing God of was a tenth of the tithe [which did not come from 100% of the people].

there are several articles one can google for more about OT Biblical tithing.

 

as for Christian tithing, a Christian is free to decide if they want to dedicate their tithe [if indeed they choose to tithe] to the church or to any organization that helps support the Body of Christ in any of its endeavors.

 

But as Christians we are under no command to tithe as described in the OT.

 

i do reject that Christians are being legalistic and placing themselves under the law if they decide to tithe, and i reject that Christians who don't budget in a tithe are breaking God's commands. I do understand that there are always some who WILL fall into those sins, but that's for God to judge, not I.

 

as for the OP, we give to both the local church [we are not members specifically because we DO disagree w/ a few things they do] as well as local families, outreaches, missionaries, etc.

[Janet in WA]

We count all of our charitable giving as our tithe -- not just what we give to our church. It isn't about whether we agree with how our church spends our donations. It's about having a larger vision of where God wants our money and charitable works to go. Some goes to our church, some goes to other causes.

[Ellie]

nt

[tex-mex]

I consider the church universal to be the storehouse, and so organizations such as World Vision, Compassion, Samaritan's Purse, etc....are all part of the church and are part of God's storehouse.

 

I do the same and give to Christian overseas groups who do charitable works with orphans or victims of war. One year, we blessed a group with $5K in Israel and didn't regret it. Meanwhile, my church was focused on the latest building program that really was not necessary. (They already had a state of the art facility large for all groups... the same Pastor would drive up on stage in his Harley Davidson or luxury car to begin the tithe and tell us we would monetarily be wealthy if we gave over the tithe to the church.) Hubby is an ordained minister and missionary... he never attended the church. We've been in the USA church system for most of our lives and have a mixed view of it as many of the Pastors were focused on building their little kingdoms and forgetting about the lost or those who have nothing. BTW, I left the rich tithing church after a few years of service with frustration at how shallow it was. For the last 3 years, we don't attend a church but do attend a home fellowship that meets weekly.

Edited July 15, 2009 by tex-mex

[Geo]

The principle of honoring God is contained within the Law of the tithe:

 

 

 

If contributions to charitable organizations were considered a tithe, there would be no need to say it twice in one sentence.

 

 

Malachi 3:8

Will man rob God? Yet you are robbing me. But you say, 'How have we robbed you?' In your tithes and contributions. (emphasis mine)

 

Just because you consider your giving to be your tithe doesn't mean God considers it that. In fact, if you give in His name, but not as He has directed, it does not honor Him...but in fact honors only your own wishes.

 

If the principle is contained within the law (the spirit of the law), how much more would this hold true for His church, who has the law written on their hearts? Hebrews 10:15-16

 

 

Christ condemned the Pharisees for forgetting the major points of the law (the spirit of the law?) while meticulously counting their spice seeds to determine their tithes (Matt.23:23). These Pharisees were not farmers. The "land and inheritance" rules of Joshua's administration had long since passed into disuse. They had probably ceased to be functional after the Babylonian captivity 500 years before this account. In Babylon, people forgot who owned what land, and in the meantime, foreigners had moved onto it. Upon returning from the captivity, the Judeans had to assimilate into the population of those who had replaced them. They had to buy land, work for others, or go into commerce to survive. Even so, tithing was in effect.

 

It is this principle that we must apply to today's circumstances. Ultimately, the tithe honors Him by trusting Him to be God enough to oversee it. He does not need your counsel. It belongs to Him, it is not yours to withold or redirect as you see fit.

 

 

Geo

Edited July 15, 2009 by Geo

[KingM]

It is this principle that we must apply to today's circumstances. Ultimately, the tithe honors Him by trusting Him to be God enough to oversee it. He does not need your counsel. It belongs to Him, it is not yours to withold or redirect as you see fit.

 

 

But as far as I'm aware, it's impossible to hand your tithe directly to God, so some choices need to be made by you.

 

Given that, how would it be withholding God's money to give 5% to your local congregation, 2% to Compassion International, and 3% to a local food bank run by an umbrella organization of local congregations? They are all members of the greater Christian fellowship and thus are all doing God's work, aren't they?

[Peek a Boo]

The principle of honoring God is contained within the Law of the tithe:

 

 

 

If contributions to charitable organizations were considered a tithe, there would be no need to say it twice in one sentence.

 

 

Malachi 3:8

Will man rob God? Yet you are robbing me. But you say, 'How have we robbed you?' In your tithes and contributions. (emphasis mine)

 

Just because you consider your giving to be your tithe doesn't mean God considers it that. In fact, if you give in His name, but not as He has directed, it does not honor Him...but in fact honors only your own wishes.

 

If the principle is contained within the law (the spirit of the law), how much more would this hold true for His church, who has the law written on their hearts? Hebrews 10:15-16

 

 

Christ condemned the Pharisees for forgetting the major points of the law (the spirit of the law?) while meticulously counting their spice seeds to determine their tithes (Matt.23:23). These Pharisees were not farmers. The "land and inheritance" rules of Joshua's administration had long since passed into disuse. They had probably ceased to be functional after the Babylonian captivity 500 years before this account. In Babylon, people forgot who owned what land, and in the meantime, foreigners had moved onto it. Upon returning from the captivity, the Judeans had to assimilate into the population of those who had replaced them. They had to buy land, work for others, or go into commerce to survive. Even so, tithing was in effect.

 

It is this principle that we must apply to today's circumstances. Ultimately, the tithe honors Him by trusting Him to be God enough to oversee it. He does not need your counsel. It belongs to Him, it is not yours to withold or redirect as you see fit.

 

 

Geo

 

spice seeds ARE agricultural products.

If indeed they weren't farmers [evidence?] then this only shows how far their self-righteousness went: growing herbs is simple and fairly easy, and then counting even the seeds would directly address the heart of what Christ was telling them: they were tithing just so they could boast about tithing.

 

One can honor God in principle all they want, but if you are going to insist that it's a command, then you must follow it as God commanded.

where --when tithing was still "in effect"-- did the law about WHO was to tithe change??

 

EVERYTHING we have belongs to Him: the tithe was a specific tax for a specific purpose. [to take care of the Levitical Priests because they had received no [land] inheritance from God.] Just redirecting it to a church as you see fit does not fit the command as it was given by God.

If contributions to a non-Levitical Priesthood were considered a tithe, there would be no need to say it several times in the Law.

Edited July 15, 2009 by Peek a Boo

[Peek a Boo]

But as far as I'm aware, it's impossible to hand your tithe directly to God, so some choices need to be made by you.

 

bingo.

in fact, one wasn't allowed to just hand over a tithe to anyone it HAD to be a Levitical Priest, and the PURPOSE of the tithe was to take care of the Levitical Priests because they had received no [land] inheritance from God.

The priests were to give a tenth of the tithe to God --that's why the "robbing God" verses demand an understanding of the purpose and action of the tithe before applying it to just anyone.

 

and if indeed we are ALL priests in His kingdom now, then WE --not just some local church body-- would be capable of deciding how to distribute our tithes and offerings.

Given that, how would it be withholding God's money to give 5% to your local congregation, 2% to Compassion International, and 3% to a local food bank run by an umbrella organization of local congregations? They are all members of the greater Christian fellowship and thus are all doing God's work, aren't they?

 

not necessarily.

"God's work" isn't about being a good person or supporting social causes--it's about trusting Christ. If an organization is silent about God it would be tough to claim they are doing God's work. ;)

 

this is where the discrepancy [and OP question] comes in: how far do most Christians see "doing God's work" ?

[BamaTanya]

10% right off the top, very first thing paid, is my tithe to my church.

Giving beyond that, or to other organizations, is separate.

 

This is our conviction, too.

[abreakfromlife]

Ultimately, the tithe honors Him by trusting Him to be God enough to oversee it. He does not need your counsel. It belongs to Him, it is not yours to withold or redirect as you see fit.

 

Well that would be assuming that every single leader of a church who is spending tithe money is doing *exactly* what God wants. And obviously, that doesn't always happen, with tithe, and other things. Tex-mex mentioned it a little bit in her post. I think there is a huge moral failing with churches building multi-million dollar buildings with a ton of high-tech stuff, while there are starving and enslaved people all around the world. No one can tell me that those pastors and elders are spending their tithe (and bank loans) exactly on what God wants.

 

and if indeed we are ALL priests in His kingdom now, then WE --not just some local church body-- would be capable of deciding how to distribute our tithes and offerings.

:iagree: That was part of the point of Jesus coming - releasing us from being trapped in that societal class/caste type of system. It's not just one person in the church who is allowed to be in God's presence anymore. It's all of us. The curtain has been torn; I'm not about to re-hang it when it comes to tithe and say that only one person in a church body knows how to spend tithe money.

[Orthodox6]

I consider all our giving to be our "tithe".

 

:iagree: Our priests, in fact, stress that "giving" includes money, talents, and time. Where one is lacking or scarce, increase one or both of the others. (This is not an excuse to be a money-miser ! :D )

[Dawn E]

I think the argument has become about commandments and law versus freedom in Christ, and I think to argue over the "tithe" misses the point...the heart of the matter. Even Cain and Abel gave offerings to the Lord from the bounty of their work before the tithe commandment was given. (Funny enough the one God rejected was the offering of the farmer--but then as now, it's not about the offering or the amount, it is about the heart).

 

The Widow's Offering

41Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. 42But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a fraction of a penny.

 

43Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on." Mark 12

 

More than following a command it is honoring God by recognizing that all you possess came from His hand, and that money is not where your deliverance is found, but in Him.

[Tiff in TX]

Tithes are a percentage of own's gross income, and are 10% minimum of that amount. This is done to honor God and so must be given to the church (the storehouse). This a command, and must be obeyed. To not tithe is considered to be "robbing God" by God Himself. Then there are "offerings", which is free-will giving by of a person. These may be given wherever the giver sees a need or desires to bless. No where in the Bible are the two confused. Tithe's are not for the giver to do (or give) with as he sees fit (para-church, poor, etc.)...it's NOT theirs. ...it belongs to GOD.

 

Geo

 

:iagree:

This is how I was raised. Tithe is 10% and goes straight to the church. Church members can also give an 'offering' to the building fund or missions.

[jetzmama]

The Holy Spirit convicts each of us regarding tithing and everything else. If we have earnestly prayed for Him to show us if we are tithing according to His will, and been obedient to what He reveals to us, than we can have a clean conscience before God.

 

Of greater concern are statistics I've heard saying that Christians, on the whole, only tithe 2% of their income. I don't know where this data is documented or how it was determined, but I do know that if it is true, then we, as a whole, need to re-evaluate our lives. Are we living (not just tithing) in a way that advances the Kingdom? What have we done (individually) in the last day (week?) to advance the Kingdom?

 

I have to confess that I'm not always proud of my answers. It's tough to live in the world, yet not be of the world. I cannot speak for other countries, but I believe this is especially hard as Americans who have been taught to seek pleasure and comfort as the greater good (My empty McD's bag and coffe cup, that they put cream in for me, suddenly seem so convicting:001_huh:).

 

For anyone feeling truly convicted about tithing EVERYTHING, I'll share a quick story from a guy that led a Larry Burkett Finance seminar a decade or so ago: He felt so convicted about tithing EVERYTHING to God that he felt like the Spirit was leading him to tithe his time. Yup....10% of every 24 hours spent in prayer and the Word.

 

Some of you prayer warriors out there can probably do that, but imagine the revival if we all did:party:

 

Thanks for letting me ramble!

[babysparkler]

Our full tithe (at least 10%) goes to our general church budget... then we give additional (above and beyond) to specific ministries within the church, ministries outside of the church, and to missionaries.

 

I'm not sure how we are able to make ends meet with all that we give back to Him, but somehow God makes it all work... and THAT is exciting! (BTW... we are living on a single church-music director income but DH does additional music "gigs" on the side).

[Peek a Boo]

I think the argument has become about commandments and law versus freedom in Christ,

 

only because someone mentioned it as a command. ;)

 

I do think there is always value in discussing what Scripture says, so I wouldn't be quick to denounce a discussion just because people feel strongly about one side or the other.

 

and I think to argue over the "tithe" misses the point...the heart of the matter. Even Cain and Abel gave offerings to the Lord from the bounty of their work before the tithe commandment was given. (Funny enough the one God rejected was the offering of the farmer--but then as now, it's not about the offering or the amount, it is about the heart).

 

 

OH! I hadn't even caught that!

 

but I do agree that it's a heart matter.

[Nestof3]

I consider any giving to be giving, but I don't think in terms of "tithe," and when you house church, there really is no "church" giving. We meet from house to house, and we do supply the paper products and such. We don't pay people to bring teaching, and we don't have building needs to pay for. All of our giving is either to people in our meeting who are in actual need or to others outside of our house church. I think it all "counts."

[TXMomof4]

As a command, the tithe was to be given ONLY to the Levitical Priests, and was ONLY for agricultural/livestock/crops. Paul would not have tithed as a tent maker, and Christ would not have tithed as a Carpenter. unless i missed a verse somewhere? maybe Eliana can chime in on the history of the tithe ;)

 

The current Jewish practice [as i understand it] is that it would be breaking the command to tithe to the local synagogue because the rules for tithing are VERY explicit: there is no Levitical Priesthood to receive the tithe.

even the "robbing God" verses were directed to the Levitical Priests --what they were robbing God of was a tenth of the tithe [which did not come from 100% of the people].

there are several articles one can google for more about OT Biblical tithing.

 

as for Christian tithing, a Christian is free to decide if they want to dedicate their tithe [if indeed they choose to tithe] to the church or to any organization that helps support the Body of Christ in any of its endeavors.

 

But as Christians we are under no command to tithe as described in the OT.

 

i do reject that Christians are being legalistic and placing themselves under the law if they decide to tithe, and i reject that Christians who don't budget in a tithe are breaking God's commands. I do understand that there are always some who WILL fall into those sins, but that's for God to judge, not I.

 

as for the OP, we give to both the local church [we are not members specifically because we DO disagree w/ a few things they do] as well as local families, outreaches, missionaries, etc.

 

Amen!

[Peek a Boo]

Peek, remember the conversation about prooftexting and context? ;)

 

 

yes ma'am --which is why I said [as I understand it] and asked for your input wrt the Jewish take on tithing as described in the Old Testament. ;)

 

your interpretation of the Torah level mitzvos involved bears no relation to a Jewish understanding of the issues and psukim involved

 

I'm sure it doesn't--

I won't argue with you there, lol. hand waving absolutely appropriate. :D

 

 

The articles on tithing and Judaism that i had come across online a while back had mentioned what i shared about the Levitical Priesthood and temple. If you [or anyone else?] can point me to a good article that explains how those fit in from a Jewish perspective onold testament tithing [feel free to save yourself the typing, lol] I would appreciate it. No hurry tho. :D

 

I did find this article --it looks like it says close to the same thing you were:

http://www.jewfaq.org/tzedakah.htm

 

 

as a Christian, if one looks at every verse and passage about tithing and the Levitical Priesthood and analyzes it in context [esp w/ the Christian New Testament], we are back to my conclusion. Since [most] Christians don't recognize Jewish traditions outside the Old Testament as scriptural or binding, I am limited in what i can offer as Christian advice.

I can learn about Jewish practice, traditions, and beliefs, but I can't offer them as solid scripture.

So if indeed the tithes as described in the OT can be given to anyone in the current Jewish tradition, then i certainly stand corrected ((not that i was prooftexting, but simply because I was completely inaccurate :D )). I just haven't found anything yet [including your own explanation] that specifically explains that aspect of the Levitical priesthood/tithing as it applies to the OT verses.

 

But I'm game for learning. :)