Question for Pagans

[BillieBoy]

Could you explain what you mean by this?

:confused:

 

I probably shouldn't answer for him but I take it as a joke referring to the historical sequence of events attributed to the political rise of organized religions. :001_smile: Just a joke

Edited July 3, 2009 by BillieBoy

[TeacherZee]

Hey, my wife worships Apollo, too. And also Starbuck a little bit.

 

Your wife has excellent taste. I too worship that Apollo, with a side of Starbuck;):D:tongue_smilie:

[asta]

Well, I'm a pantheist rather than a polytheist, so I see every name/face we put to God/Goddess as an attempt to understand a piece of something too large to grasp in its entirety. That doesn't mean I don't relate to specific deities on a deeper, more personal level, but I'm highly unlikely to debate the existence of one vs. another. I believe that the issue of religion is humanity's great test, and that transcending dogmatic conflicts is the key.

 

And yes, I am also UU.

 

My mom (who is not UU) calls this the "Big God" concept: the idea that God is bigger than individual religions. This is in comparison to the "Little God" concept that God is only confined to the parameters of a specific religion. She didn't come up with the idea (obviously!) - I believe she learned about it from a book.

 

 

a

[Peela]

SCA is Society for Creative Anachronism. :)

 

Its a really interesting medieval re-enactment group that is world wide. We dress up in medieval costumes, make medieval things (like weaving, calligraphy, cooking) and some of us shoot bows and arrows or get into full armour and go try to kill each other (in a very chivalrous kinda way).

It's good fun. Its also non religious but seems to attract pagans. Lots of my local group are pagan and/or witches but you wouldnt know it on the surface.

[Night Elf]

I'm also curious as to why each of you believe what you believe? Is it a book that has you convinced, or feelings, or visions, or logic, or academics, or whatever. I'm not trying to debate who's right or wrong, I'd just love to hear your reasons for being a pagan.

 

I heard the ideas, I read some books, I talked to some people and believe what feels right to me.

[Saille]

What is UU?

 

Also any books or websites anyone can direct me toward to learn more about all of these would be greatly appreciated.

 

Sometimes I feel the only thing that keeps me Christian is fear of familial reprisals. :tongue_smilie:

 

UU is the marriage of two originally separate belief systems:

 

1. Unitarianism, which disagrees with the concept of the Trinity as agreed upon at the Council of Nicaea in AD 325. Many Unitarians consider Arianists to be their distant ancestors, although the concept can also be traced back to Michael Servetus and the Reformation, which was quite a bit different in Eastern Europe than in Western Europe. The first official service of the Unitarian Church as we currently know it was in London in 1774. Benjamin Franklin was among the attendees. The John and Abigail Adams were Unitarians, and Jefferson stated in his personal writings that he would have attended a Unitarian Church had there been one nearby.

 

2. Universalism, which espouses universal salvation regardless of creed. The Universalist Church in America was originally a Christian denomination, dating back to the 1770s, although the history of the belief goes back much further. Origen, for example, was a universalist.

 

The two churches combined in the 1960s. UU is non-creedal, and is organized around a set of seven principles, which implicitly require social justice and environmental preservation work of members. Unitarians and Universalists have historically been involved in social justice movements such as abolitionism, women's suffrage, and civil rights.

[Saille]

I heard the ideas, I read some books, I talked to some people and believe what feels right to me.

 

I encountered the idea in my reading and instantly felt an overwhelming sense of recognition and relief. I can look back over my childhood and see a clear pattern of belief and experience consistent with paganism. Even ostensibly Christian materials, such as The Chronicles of Narnia or Anne of Green Gables, inspired in me feelings most easily described as Transcendentalism a la Alcott, Emerson and Thoreau...given their ties to the Unitarian Church, it's not at all surprising that paganism led me to Unitarian Universalism, though there are people raised in many faiths who end up there, and many still consider themselves Christian, or Jewish, or Hindu, or Humanist, as well as UU.

[Saille]

I've had christians tell me that the only way to have morals is to get them from God and the Bible

 

I've been told this, too. I would describe that as conventional moral reasoning as set forth by Kohlberg, though I don't think you can paint all Christians with that brush. Pagans are typically post-conventional.

[KingM]

I probably shouldn't answer for him but I take it as a joke referring to the historical sequence of events attributed to the political rise of organized religions. :001_smile: Just a joke

 

Yes, just a joke. On similar lines:

 

A man was standing on the Golden Gate Bridge, about to jump. A passer-by tried to talk him down. "Surely you've got a lot to live for. Aren't you Christian?"

 

"Yes, I am," the man said.

 

"Great, me too," said the passer-by. "What kind are you?"

 

"I'm a Protestant."

 

"Hey, me too. What kind of Protestant? Anglican, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Pentecostal?"

 

"I'm a Pentacostal," the depressed man said.

 

"Hey, that's great, me too!" said the passer-by. "So look how much you have to live for. Oh, are you an initial evidence or a third wave Pentecostal?"

 

"Initial evidence."

 

"Me too! What kind of initial evidence? Are you a AOG, CRC, COC, CCC?"

 

"AOG," said the depressed man.

 

The passer-by got really excited. "Me too! Well, are you Premillenial, Post Millenial or Amillenial?"

 

The guy on the edge of the bridge said, "Amillenial"

 

Suddenly, the passer-by's face twisted into rage. "Die, heretic!" he screamed, and pushed him off the bridge.

[HRAAB]

Well, I'm a pantheist rather than a polytheist, so I see every name/face we put to God/Goddess as an attempt to understand a piece of something too large to grasp in its entirety.

 

 

The last eight years I have spent trying to define, to the best of my ability, what I believe. I agree with the above quote although I wouldn't call myself a pantheist. I believe all of creation is in 'God' and 'God' is in all of us. I sometimes hesitate to use the word God because people usually have this preconceived idea of God (Old Testament, Biblical God), and that is not what I mean. However, I can't come up with any other word. Divinity, spirit, energy. All the names peoples have used name this same God.

 

A few years ago I came across the term Panentheism which so far is the closest I can come to naming what I believe.

 

Now the contradiction in my life is that I still attend a Christian church with my family and am raising my children in that church. My older dd's know that I've moved far in my search, and I will discuss my beliefs with my younger children as they get older. For right now, it makes for a happy family.

 

Janet

[LaxMom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night Elf

I've had christians tell me that the only way to have morals is to get them from God and the Bible

 

I've been told this, too. I would describe that as conventional moral reasoning as set forth by Kohlberg, though I don't think you can paint all Christians with that brush. Pagans are typically post-conventional.

 

I have been on the receiving end of such declarations, as well, by people who do not know me well or at all. So, I've raised this with conservative Christian friends with the general consensus from them at, regardless of the basis for my daily actions, my outlook and actions are moral according to the definition they, themselves, understand. (Barring, obviously, the worship factor) Of course, this could be denial on their part, as we tend to lead very similar lives and share a great many viewpoints (barring, obviously, the worship thing, again). :D

[asta]

I sometimes hesitate to use the word God because people usually have this preconceived idea of God (Old Testament, Biblical God), and that is not what I mean. However, I can't come up with any other word. Divinity, spirit, energy. All the names peoples have used name this same God.

 

Janet

 

Omniscient It.

 

 

a

[KidsHappen]

Thanks, Amy, that is essentially my response. I believe the personification of divine energy is the creation of man. It doesn't make that personification any more or less valid. I believe that, since everybody's experience is different, everyone's perception and path will be as well.

 

 

This is very similiar to my own beliefs and well as two of my older dds. I would like to add that they worked these beliefs out on their own without any help from me.

[rowan25]

UU is the marriage of two originally separate belief systems:

 

1. Unitarianism, which disagrees with the concept of the Trinity as agreed upon at the Council of Nicaea in AD 325. Many Unitarians consider Arianists to be their distant ancestors, although the concept can also be traced back to Michael Servetus and the Reformation, which was quite a bit different in Eastern Europe than in Western Europe. The first official service of the Unitarian Church as we currently know it was in London in 1774. Benjamin Franklin was among the attendees. The John and Abigail Adams were Unitarians, and Jefferson stated in his personal writings that he would have attended a Unitarian Church had there been one nearby.

 

2. Universalism, which espouses universal salvation regardless of creed. The Universalist Church in America was originally a Christian denomination, dating back to the 1770s, although the history of the belief goes back much further. Origen, for example, was a universalist.

 

The two churches combined in the 1960s. UU is non-creedal, and is organized around a set of seven principles, which implicitly require social justice and environmental preservation work of members. Unitarians and Universalists have historically been involved in social justice movements such as abolitionism, women's suffrage, and civil rights.

Thank you. That was very easy to follow.

[rowan25]

Yes, just a joke. On similar lines:

 

A man was standing on the Golden Gate Bridge, about to jump. A passer-by tried to talk him down. "Surely you've got a lot to live for. Aren't you Christian?"

 

"Yes, I am," the man said.

 

"Great, me too," said the passer-by. "What kind are you?"

 

"I'm a Protestant."

 

"Hey, me too. What kind of Protestant? Anglican, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Pentecostal?"

 

"I'm a Pentacostal," the depressed man said.

 

"Hey, that's great, me too!" said the passer-by. "So look how much you have to live for. Oh, are you an initial evidence or a third wave Pentecostal?"

 

"Initial evidence."

 

"Me too! What kind of initial evidence? Are you a AOG, CRC, COC, CCC?"

 

"AOG," said the depressed man.

 

The passer-by got really excited. "Me too! Well, are you Premillenial, Post Millenial or Amillenial?"

 

The guy on the edge of the bridge said, "Amillenial"

 

Suddenly, the passer-by's face twisted into rage. "Die, heretic!" he screamed, and pushed him off the bridge.

ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you. That totally brightened my day! :lol:

[proverbs356lady]

Thank you all for answering my questions. This has been an enlightening discussion.

[Desert Rat]

To answer the question posted by proverbs365lady. I came to my beliefs by weeding out the religions that didn't work for me. Turns out it was all of them. I do still believe that Jesus was a brilliant man, like Buddha and Confucius, but not that he is God incarnate. I follow Buddhism more closely because it isn't a religion as much as a belief system, with those beliefs being common sense. The most important for me is the middle path. That's why I sometimes have issue with people who cling far left or far right. It's so much nicer in the middle. :o Don't deny yourself junk food, but don't make it your entire diet, for example.

So basically, my path was that of the process of elimination.

[OnTheBrink]

I've had christians tell me that the only way to have morals is to get them from God and the Bible, but obviously that is wrong as I don't believe in God or the Bible and I absolutely have morals!

 

 

 

You know, I happen to agree. It IS wrong. Everyone has morals. They may not be biblical morals (simply meaning, morals based on Bible teaching), but every person on the planet has morals. Whenever I hear a Christian say a non-Christian has no morals, I shake my head and sigh a bit. By the same token, I have the same response when a non-Christian says they don't teach their children their world view, that they're allowing a child to find their own path. Truth is, they ARE teaching their child their world view. People live what they truly believe, whether they consciously teach it or not.

 

Anyway, not trying to hijack; this has been an interesting thread.

[Paula in PA]

It's pretty much a fundamental belief of Pagans that there isn't one right spiritual path that applies to everyone. I don't know any who say there is, and if they did, I would think them immature. Rosie

 

They're out there. :glare: Just as there are fundementalists in all other religions, there are a few in the Wiccan / Pagan groups as well. I have read comments by a couple of them on a different site and have met another IRL. It was an interesting experience, to say the least. :tongue_smilie:

 

As for me, I am a nature & Gaia revering atheist with secular Humanist leanings and an interest in Buddhism. :D My dh thinks I should just simplify it by saying non-theist Pagan, but it's more fun saying all of it. My spirituality is still evolving. :001_smile:

 

Oh, we used to play in the SCA, but no longer have a local group. I'd like to get back into it when we can find the time (and the gas money).

[lionfamily1999]

You know, I happen to agree. It IS wrong. Everyone has morals. They may not be biblical morals (simply meaning, morals based on Bible teaching), but every person on the planet has morals. Whenever I hear a Christian say a non-Christian has no morals, I shake my head and sigh a bit. By the same token, I have the same response when a non-Christian says they don't teach their children their world view, that they're allowing a child to find their own path. Truth is, they ARE teaching their child their world view. People live what they truly believe, whether they consciously teach it or not.

 

Anyway, not trying to hijack; this has been an interesting thread.

I find that some people forget that regardless of another person's religious beliefs, that person would still be the child of their God. IOW, I'm a Christian, in my belief all people are children of God, even Athiests. God would speak to them, they would have already ingrained a sense of right and wrong and the spirit they have came from God. IOW, they have all the same spiritual workings as I do, they may have percieved it differently than I did, but it's still there.

[swimmermom3]

This has been an intriguing and challenging thread for me. Many of you seem to be able to articulate very clearly what it is you believe even if you don't have an exact name for it. How did you get to that point?

 

The threads on curriculum, I get. The threads on beliefs leave me wondering what "spot" or category I "fit" into.

 

Anyway, what I want to ask is that as pagans, when you choose curriculum, do you have hard and fast rules? Do you say "110% secular or nothing"? Or do you choose curricula that has religious content because it may work for you and you are ambivalent about the religious content? I hope this make sense.:001_huh:

[Ravin]

I try and avoid curricula that has overtly religious content/worldview throughout it. Even SOTW rubbed me the wrong way when I read the first few chapters of Vol. 1.

 

I am capable of adapting, though. We're using Song School Latin this year. There are two solid chapters that are Christmas-themed. We'll be using them as talking points to discuss the difference between Christmas and Yule.

 

 

Anyway, what I want to ask is that as pagans, when you choose curriculum, do you have hard and fast rules? Do you say "110% secular or nothing"? Or do you choose curricula that has religious content because it may work for you and you are ambivalent about the religious content? I hope this make sense.:001_huh:

[HeathenMom]

Anyway, what I want to ask is that as pagans, when you choose curriculum, do you have hard and fast rules? Do you say "110% secular or nothing"? Or do you choose curricula that has religious content because it may work for you and you are ambivalent about the religious content? I hope this make sense.:001_huh:

 

i have found history and science very challenging curriculum wise. we've used Horizons math in the past despite some Christianey-ness in the text. it's really hard to intersperse math with a Christian worldview, but when it comes to history and science the mindset can quite biased and in a lot of instances i think Christian bias can totally skew the facts.

 

i often daydream about a homeschool publishing company for the rest of us...

[Firefly]

Anyway, what I want to ask is that as pagans, when you choose curriculum, do you have hard and fast rules? Do you say "110% secular or nothing"? Or do you choose curricula that has religious content because it may work for you and you are ambivalent about the religious content? I hope this make sense.:001_huh:

 

It doesn't bother me. Though we don't shy away from studying the bible/Christianity for comparative religion purposes, obviously I prefer secular materials/those that don't come from a Christian POV for our curricula; only because it can just be a little tiresome for someone who's not Christian! It's pretty challenging to find secular materials that are quality and that we like but so far we've been mostly successful. DS's Saxon DIVE CD is the one exception but again, it really doesn't bother me (or him) at all.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[KarenNC]

Anyway, what I want to ask is that as pagans, when you choose curriculum, do you have hard and fast rules? Do you say "110% secular or nothing"? Or do you choose curricula that has religious content because it may work for you and you are ambivalent about the religious content? I hope this make sense.:001_huh:

 

Depends on what you mean by religious content (I am presuming you mean Christian-specific content, because for us the Greek myths are religious content;)). I don't do the non-Christian equivalent of "how can I teach ancient Greek or Roman history without mentioning that they had Gods other than Jesus?" It's not possible either way.

 

We certainly learn about many different religions and particularly the major stories of the Hebrew and Christian sacred scriptures (it's impossible to be truly literate in our society without a good grounding in those), but we don't put a larger emphasis on them than other areas. For SOTW 1, for instance, I chose to only have my child listen to the chapters on Abraham, Joseph, etc so that she had some familiarity, but didn't do any of the extra activities. That gave it about the same level of focus as the Anansi stories, stories about Mohammed, Hindu stories, etc. We do look at the way in which all cultures and religions have shaped each other over time.

 

Overall I try to chose things without a specific proselytizing Christian-specific focus. If the subject matter does not call for dealing with Christian-specific content, I avoid things that add that (math books, handwriting, etc). For areas like history, literature, bios of scientists, etc we look at Christian-specific content if it is relevant to the topic. I'm not going to try to pretend that Mendel wasn't a priest or that a large portion of the impetus for colonization of America wasn't tied into a desire to practice one's religion in one's own way (and have everyone else follow one's way, most of the time;)), for instance. I don't edit out references of literary characters going to church or praying, but I don't seek out books specifically that contain that and may find alternatives for those that do it to a big extent---Heidi got a bit much for instance. I won't use a providential history text because I simply don't believe it is accurate. As for ID and creationism, we may touch on them as religious beliefs of people, similar to the creation stories of all cultures, but I am not going to include it in science because I do not believe it belongs there.

 

Hope that gives a reasonably good picture of what we do.

[Firefly]

I'm following this thread with interest. I appreciate all the thoughtful, serious replies and obviously informed positions. Many of the pagans I've met (mostly in college) seemed like they were 'playing' Pagan, messing about with some of the stereotypes and so forth. None could ever articulate an actual belief system, only a reactionary rejection of traditional (mainly Protestant Christian) organized religion.

 

:bigear:

 

I would argue there are few of college-age who know what they want to do with their lives (spiritually or otherwise)! As far as a belief system, I'm confused...I articulated mine above, as have many others. If it doesn't meet with your definition of a Belief System, so be it... it doesn't have to! :)

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Ravin]

I would argue there are few of college-age who know what they want to do with their lives (spiritually or otherwise)! As far as a belief system, I'm confused...I articulated mine above, as have many others. If it doesn't meet with your definition of a Belief System, so be it... it doesn't have to! :)

 

I believe she was contrasting the posts above with her Pagan friends back in college.

 

FWIW, I first started identifying as a "Pagan" when I was first in college (at age 16). I generally identified myself during that time as a Pagan seeker. I knew the general ideas of Paganism seemed right to me, but it took me a few years to settle into a path/tradition that really called me. That happened when I was 19, in the Navy, and took a class on the runes at a pagan bookstore down in Florida, which led in turn to my joining a Northern Way Kindred that sort of walked the line between Norse Wicca and Asatru, and then settling into Asatru (more or less) after I'd moved on and was again independent/solitary.

 

I think it's not at all unusual for a young convert from/to any religion to have a period where a strong part of their identity may be about being "anti" whatever it was they converted away from (for many young Pagans, that's whatever Christian sect they were raised in). If you weren't raised with a particular religion as a very strong/active part of your life, or you still practice the same religion you were raised with, it might not seem very obvious as to why. I do think that for most it is just a phase, and eventually one grows into caring more about growing one's spirituality as it is, than about rejecting what it is not. Did that make any sense?

[Firefly]

My apologies, Shari-- I totally misunderstood! :blush:

[KarenNC]

No you miss my point. This IS the first time I've heard these belief systems clearly articulated. I am in the throes of a deeply personal religious re-evaluation and am trying to figure out how I fit into (or out of) any organized group. I'm not even sure I could even say exactly what I believe right now. It is disconcerting to say the least. :auto:

 

I sympathize, having gone through a lot of that myself. I did not make a final break with Christianity until I was over 30, or finally acknowledge that I had never really been even a monotheist until in my later 30s. It has never been easy and involved a *lot* of tears, frustration, sadness, soul-searching, study, a few false starts, etc.

 

Religious identity is very tied into all areas of life---your familial, cultural, social identity and history. I am still feeling my way years later and always will be, I think. I don't have a model for how to raise a child in this faith, how one lives one's life on a day to day basis, how to integrate the traditions I value from my childhood (and if I can), etc. That doesn't even begin to address how one deals with the interaction of it with one's society and family (particularly since my extended family is overwhelmingly devout Evangelical Christian and I live in the South).

 

I would say that, as part of your exploration, it is vitally important to educate yourself thoroughly on the breadth and variety of religious expression in your current religion, within and without any specific denomination. Too often, a person can come to think that the way in which they have experienced Christianity, for instance, is the only way there is, so they throw out the entire spectrum of Christianity because they disagree with the stance of a particular portion of it. I went through several denominations, and did not leave Christianity because I was angry, but because I could not honestly call myself one when I couldn't agree with the very basic tenets of it.

 

There is a fairly common human tendency to value the exotic over the familiar and it can be easier to see the variety in something new than take a new look at the familiar. There are strands within Christianity and Judaism (not familiar with others) that may provide more mysticism, are more or less liberal than others, focus more or less on social justice, women's issues, etc than others. Don't give up the religion of your heritage until you are absolutely certain there is no way to square your spiritual experiences with it and you cannot continue to identify yourself as ____ with integrity.

[KarenNC]

I'm following this thread with interest. I appreciate all the thoughtful, serious replies and obviously informed positions. Many of the pagans I've met (mostly in college) seemed like they were 'playing' Pagan, messing about with some of the stereotypes and so forth. None could ever articulate an actual belief system, only a reactionary rejection of traditional (mainly Protestant Christian) organized religion.

 

There are spiritually immature or superficial members of all groups, and sometimes those are the ones who are most visible or vocal, unfortunately. The ones who feel they need to be as visibly and flagrantly as "different" as possible in order to validate themselves often fall into this category. There are many others who simply focus mostly on living their lives and you may never know they are Neopagan.

 

I think any fringe group will end up attracting (at least initially) a larger than proportional share of those who are taking part to separate from the usual, want to seem exotic or "cool", have only a very superficial idea of what the group is about (particularly if it is popular in the media), etc. This is true of teens and other ages as well. Time will tell if they stay in that reactionary phase or mature spiritually in the tradition. Some will mature, some will stay at that surface level, some will move on to something else. It's usually easier to say what one isn't than what one is.

[Amy in NH]

I think I have always been a religious "seeker". I went to UU religious ed part-time for a year or two when I was 9 or 10, and Catholic Mass with Grandma a few times, learned the Lords Prayer on my own, joined the Moonies by phone (again on my own, until my mother nixed it) at age 11, and went to Baptist? Pioneer Girls youth group and summer camp for a year in there somewhere as well. I started researching paganism as my topic of choice for essay writing assignments in high school (age 15-16), and really identified myself as a pagan then. But it wasn't until after I took a World Religion class in college at age 25 that I was able to really see the connection of all religions and articulate my own beliefs. I attended a local UU church for a couple of years, but it was cutting into my family time so I probably won't do that again until my kids are grown and gone. I have made the study of world religions a part of our homeschooling program, and my 2nd son just finished a UU coming-of-age program based on the principles.

 

As far as choosing curriculum goes, we can tweak some programs but not others. We use Latin Primer, which has Christian content, but have had a more difficult time finding & using Logic materials. We haven't had much trouble with history and science, though.

[swimmermom3]

No you miss my point. This IS the first time I've heard these belief systems clearly articulated. I am in the throes of a deeply personal religious re-evaluation and am trying to figure out how I fit into (or out of) any organized group. I'm not even sure I could even say exactly what I believe right now. It is disconcerting to say the least. :auto:

 

I'm where Shari is with regards to the serious religious re-evaluation. I have been able to shove the process into the closet for a couple of years, feeling that the implications for myself and my family were just too big for me to deal with at the time. Karen, you've done a good job in outlining some of those implications.

 

However, the longer I homeschool, the louder the creatures in my closet become, and they are far less willing to be ignored. This year is particularly hard because the youngest is starting the history cycle at the beginning and it's his first time through it. This is why I asked the question about choosing curriculum. Most secular curriculum looks like a ps textbook and lacks the richness of thought and questioning that some of the religious curriculum supplies. However, the religious curriulum obviously feels very narrow in perspective for our family.

 

Karen, your observations concerning branching out within your own belief system first reminds me of something similar that the current Dalai Lama wrote with regards to Westerners being quick to embrace Eastern practice. They are points definitely worth considering.

 

Religious identity is very tied into all areas of life---your familial, cultural, social identity and history. I am still feeling my way years later and always will be, I think. I don't have a model for how to raise a child in this faith, how one lives one's life on a day to day basis, how to integrate the traditions I value from my childhood (and if I can), etc. That doesn't even begin to address how one deals with the interaction of it with one's society and family (particularly since my extended family is overwhelmingly devout Evangelical Christian and I live in the South).

 

I would say that, as part of your exploration, it is vitally important to educate yourself thoroughly on the breadth and variety of religious expression in your current religion, within and without any specific denomination. Too often, a person can come to think that the way in which they have experienced Christianity, for instance, is the only way there is, so they throw out the entire spectrum of Christianity because they disagree with the stance of a particular portion of it. I went through several denominations, and did not leave Christianity because I was angry, but because I could not honestly call myself one when I couldn't agree with the very basic tenets of it.

 

There is a fairly common human tendency to value the exotic over the familiar and it can be easier to see the variety in something new than take a new look at the familiar. There are strands within Christianity and Judaism (not familiar with others) that may provide more mysticism, are more or less liberal than others, focus more or less on social justice, women's issues, etc than others. Don't give up the religion of your heritage until you are absolutely certain there is no way to square your spiritual experiences with it and you cannot continue to identify yourself as ____ with integrity.

 

Ravin, Karen, Firefly, and HeathenMom, thank you. A couple of months ago, I don't think I would have contemplated discussing faith questions online with a handful of strangers in front of a few hundred other strangers. But when opportunity knocks, and you're not sure it will knock again-at least where you live-I'm feeling like I have to go for it.

 

Take care,

 

Lisa

[KarenNC]

However, the longer I homeschool, the louder the creatures in my closet become, and they are far less willing to be ignored. This year is particularly hard because the youngest is starting the history cycle at the beginning and it's his first time through it. This is why I asked the question about choosing curriculum. Most secular curriculum looks like a ps textbook and lacks the richness of thought and questioning that some of the religious curriculum supplies. However, the religious curriulum obviously feels very narrow in perspective for our family.

 

Have you found the SL Secular forum (since your sig lists Sonlight)? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SonlightSecular/ I've joined it to get an idea of whether it might be something we want to go to, but not sure yet. There seem to be lots of good suggestions and a good place to ask for suggestions.

 

At this point (we're only going into 4th grade), I end up doing a lot of beefing up the parts that we want to emphasize and skipping or skimming others.

 

Ravin, Karen, Firefly, and HeathenMom, thank you. A couple of months ago, I don't think I would have contemplated discussing faith questions online with a handful of strangers in front of a few hundred other strangers. But when opportunity knocks, and you're not sure it will knock again-at least where you live-I'm feeling like I have to go for it.

You're welcome. I understand about the isolation...the internet community has been a lifesaver for us.

[Rosie_0801]

I'm also curious as to why each of you believe what you believe? Is it a book that has you convinced, or feelings, or visions, or logic, or academics, or whatever. I'm not trying to debate who's right or wrong, I'd just love to hear your reasons for being a pagan.

 

Probably a bit of all of those, plus a healthy dose of "I like it this way." It would be dumb of me to build a set of beliefs and practises that clashed with how I want to view the world. Religion ought to make us feel better. In my opinion, if you have to do major panel beating on your sense of self in order to continue travelling a particular spiritual/religious path, you're on the wrong path. You may need to take a completely different road, or perhaps only a short detour, but you are definitely not where you need to be.

 

This has been an intriguing and challenging thread for me. Many of you seem to be able to articulate very clearly what it is you believe even if you don't have an exact name for it. How did you get to that point?

We have to, lol, because there isn't a label to copy and paste :)

It's a bit like finding your niche as a homeschooler. You start off with whatever sounds best, then research it further. You might stick with that path, or you might find yourself feeling less enthusiastic with it and start looking for something that sits more comfortably.

 

The threads on curriculum, I get. The threads on beliefs leave me wondering what "spot" or category I "fit" into.

Heheh. When/if it gets high enough on your priority list, you'll figure it out. It can take a while though. I'm supporting dh in a spiritual journey at present. He left his church about 7 years ago and seems finally ready to add a bit more bulk to what he had left over from then. My beliefs are fairly sturdy now, but as I journey with dh through that paganism book I mentioned a few pages ago I'm learning more of the terminology other people use and considering what I want to do with my beliefs now I've thought them out. We're working on developing our equivelent of a church calender at the moment. Dd is 2, so I'd like to have a good framework in place during the next year, since she'll be getting to the age where she'll be more aware of things like Santa and I want to be able to give her a decent quality answers when she asks. We can always add the details as we grow together, but we definitely need more of a framework.

 

Anyway, what I want to ask is that as pagans, when you choose curriculum, do you have hard and fast rules? Do you say "110% secular or nothing"? Or do you choose curricula that has religious content because it may work for you and you are ambivalent about the religious content?

Not 110% secular, but I don't imagine I'll buy religious curriculum because it's kind of annoying; in the same way that I don't read novels with flowery language. It's not the religion so much as the floweriness. I'm quite ok with Heidi and Little Women. The religious aspect is flavour, not floweriness. Religious studies will be a very high priority in our homeschool. I know what resources I want, but am not sure if they exist so we'll see what happens.

 

 

Rosie

Edited July 5, 2009 by Rosie_0801