Question for Pagans

[KingM]

It seems that there are several pagans on this board and I've met a few in real life as well. They seem like nice, sincere people.

 

When questioned, they seemed to be more agnostic theists, of the, "I believe in some higher power, but I don't know what that is," sort of thinking. It seems that for most of the pagans I've met a reference to "the gods" is as much a political/philosophical statement as anything else. They are more likely to be vegetarians/vegans, to have negative feelings toward patriarchal religion, and to have a strong environmental ethos. Many have also been UUs or belong to organizations that celebrate an earlier lifestyle, such as the SCA. There is a commune near here with some neopagans.

 

My question for board members is this. Do you really believe in multiple gods and are these gods the old-time Greek or Germanic pantheons? The same question applies to those who believe in an Earth Mother or some other non-monotheistic deity. Do you have an organized theology and if so, what is it?

 

I'm not starting an argument here, I'm just curious if you feel like sharing.

[Firefly]

I can't speak for all pagans-- we are about as homogenous a group as Christians are. :D

 

I do believe in a higher power encompassing both male and female energies: God/Goddess, Universe, the Force (LOL)... whatever you want to call it... the stream of life force that we are all connected to.... any specific gods/godesses.

 

This I cut and pasted from a previous thread, to add a bit of clarification:

 

I have read extensively on theology and studied different religions. Paganism speaks to me because there is no one RIGHT way... everyone must follow their own spiritual path. It does not condemn others who chose a different path. I like viewing life as part of a never ending cycle rather than a linear path with an endpoint; being part of the endless cycle of birth, growth, death, rebirth... I do feel connected to all things, all people (even the ones that drive me crazy :001_huh:). So no, there is no organized theology behind what I believe. But again, you will get many different views here from other pagans.

 

HTH

 

Hmm, I don't feel like I articulated that very well, but there you have it!

[HeathenMom]

i believe in the gods of the old Germanic sort, however, i don't think Thor is up in the sky creating thunder and slaying frost giants. i think the mythology was not only a way of putting the world into story, but the gods represent a deep allegory about human nature and spirituality, ancestral knowledge (or race memory), the forces of nature, and the quest for enlightenment.

 

i don't pray to the gods. when i do offerings in ritual, it is to my ancestors and the ideals that the gods represent.

 

Striving for Odin Consciousness,

:)

[KingM]

i believe in the gods of the old Germanic sort, however, i don't think Thor is up in the sky creating thunder and slaying frost giants. i think the mythology was not only a way of putting the world into story, but the gods represent a deep allegory about human nature and spirituality, ancestral knowledge (or race memory), the forces of nature, and the quest for enlightenment.

 

 

I'm unclear. Do you believe that Thor actually exists, or is this just metaphor?

[lionfamily1999]

:bigear:

[HeathenMom]

I'm unclear. Do you believe that Thor actually exists, or is this just metaphor?

 

no, i don't think Thor is a big, red-bearded dude wielding a hammer (my 13 year old is adamantly disagreeing with me here...:001_rolleyes:).

 

however, this calls into question what it is to exist. i happen to think that the gods of the Germanic pantheon are my literal ancestors and therefore exist in my DNA and consciousness. so i believe the gods exist on the level of energy manifestation, not so much on the literal level. i would NEVER expect to 'hear' Freya talking to me, or to 'see' Odin before me. however, the more i strive to attain a more spiritual enlightenment, the more 'real' the gods become within myself.

 

does that make a lick of sense?

:001_unsure:

[asta]

no, i don't think Thor is a big, red-bearded dude wielding a hammer (my 13 year old is adamantly disagreeing with me here...:001_rolleyes:).

 

however, this calls into question what it is to exist. i happen to think that the gods of the Germanic pantheon are my literal ancestors and therefore exist in my DNA and consciousness. so i believe the gods exist on the level of energy manifestation, not so much on the literal level. i would NEVER expect to 'hear' Freya talking to me, or to 'see' Odin before me. however, the more i strive to attain a more spiritual enlightenment, the more 'real' the gods become within myself.

 

does that make a lick of sense?

:001_unsure:

 

Yes, actually it does.

 

What a cool concept.

 

 

a

[KingM]

no, i don't think Thor is a big, red-bearded dude wielding a hammer

 

That would be awesome! Well, except for the blood eagle part. ;)

 

Speaking seriously to your point, I'm 1/8 Danish, 1/16 Swedish, and of my English and Scottish ancestors, at least half either came from the Danelaw or were Anglo Saxons displaced by the Norman invasion, so this is my ancestral religion too, to all intents and purposes. The rest are Celts from Scotland.

 

I once published a lengthy article in Military History Magazine about the war between Alfred the Great and the Viking invasions of Britain, so I probably do know more than the average person, personal heritage aside.

 

And to a certain extent I feel a kinship with these ancestors of mine and their religion, but only to the extent that I know about it. But what if I didn't? Would I still feel some resonance with these ancient gods without knowing why?

 

Again, just curious about your perspective.

[Firefly]

i believe in the gods of the old Germanic sort, however, i don't think Thor is up in the sky creating thunder and slaying frost giants. i think the mythology was not only a way of putting the world into story, but the gods represent a deep allegory about human nature and spirituality, ancestral knowledge (or race memory), the forces of nature, and the quest for enlightenment.:)

 

I love the way you phrased this, HeathenMom...

[Karen sn]

Not organized at all. I believe what ever it is that I want to be celebrating at that time. Since we are studying ancient history at this time and I am highly impressed by the Egyptians, I have been channeling their dieties. I want to explore the Hindu religion as well. I am open to it all.

 

Ironically it ws the study with my Rabbi that turned me against Abraham's god. The more I pondered the war and violence, the continual blood shed, the murder of pregnant women and babies - the more I realized he was not the god for me. But lots of my friends worship him - and I am fine with that.

 

Lately I have been feeling like an ancient Egyptian when I wash my baby's butt, breast feed him, or watch him crawl around naked. I think to myself of those Egyptians and how they did the same things I do as a mom. They were amazing healers and such an intelligent society. They loved kids. Then because of their pharoh and Moses and the god of Abraham - every first born son was found dead!

 

You can not justify that to me no matter how hard you try!!!!

If someone hated George W. Bush and then killed my kid because they were mad at W. - it would piss me off. I am a commoner and nothing that W did to piss off another nation had any benefit for me at all! So why kill my kid because you are pissed off at my leader? I have nothing to do with it! KWIM?

 

So anyway - back to your question - I have so much more to learn and what I believe now may be different than what I feel later. I am fluid and open to learning more.

[HeathenMom]

That would be awesome! Well, except for the blood eagle part. ;)

 

Speaking seriously to your point, I'm 1/8 Danish, 1/16 Swedish, and of my English and Scottish ancestors, at least half either came from the Danelaw or were Anglo Saxons displaced by the Norman invasion, so this is my ancestral religion too, to all intents and purposes. The rest are Celts from Scotland.

 

I once published a lengthy article in Military History Magazine about the war between Alfred the Great and the Viking invasions of Britain, so I probably do know more than the average person, personal heritage aside.

 

And to a certain extent I feel a kinship with these ancestors of mine and their religion, but only to the extent that I know about it. But what if I didn't? Would I still feel some resonance with these ancient gods without knowing why?

 

Again, just curious about your perspective.

 

Blood Eagle! yikes!

 

i can't say what draws people to the religion of their ancestors. personally, i was raised in a pretty non-religious home, so when i wanted to find my spiritual path i didn't have to overcome a lot of...well, indoctrination. i got to look around and study and then i decided what was right in myself.

 

there seems to be a great 'awakening' going on for all ancestral and tribal spiritualities right now...maybe it's the voice of the ancestors in the blood, maybe it's just the internet!

:D

[asta]

Not organized at all. I believe what ever it is that I want to be celebrating at that time. Since we are studying ancient history at this time and I am highly impressed by the Egyptians, I have been channeling their dieties. I want to explore the Hindu religion as well. I am open to it all.

 

Ironically it ws the study with my Rabbi that turned me against Abraham's god. The more I pondered the war and violence, the continual blood shed, the murder of pregnant women and babies - the more I realized he was not the god for me. But lots of my friends worship him - and I am fine with that.

 

Lately I have been feeling like an ancient Egyptian when I wash my baby's butt, breast feed him, or watch him crawl around naked. I think to myself of those Egyptians and how they did the same things I do as a mom. They were amazing healers and such an intelligent society. They loved kids. Then because of their pharoh and Moses and the god of Abraham - every first born son was found dead!

 

You can not justify that to me no matter how hard you try!!!!

If someone hated George W. Bush and then killed my kid because they were mad at W. - it would piss me off. I am a commoner and nothing that W did to piss off another nation had any benefit for me at all! So why kill my kid because you are pissed off at my leader? I have nothing to do with it! KWIM?

 

So anyway - back to your question - I have so much more to learn and what I believe now may be different than what I feel later. I am fluid and open to learning more.

 

I understand the point you are trying to convey, but the disagreements between the West and the East are hundreds of years old. They did not start with the last US President.

 

 

a

[Ravin]

I practice the same religion as HeathenMom, more or less, but personally I take the Gods a bit more literally. Again, I see myth as allegorical, not literal, and I don't think the Gods are (usually) physical beings walking around. I do pray, as well as make offerings and use oracular tools to seek guidance (rune stones and rune cards). I have also on occasion practiced magic, but it's generally something of an "optional" activity within the worldview of heathenry.

 

I also don't consider the Gods I worship to be universal, or the only Gods that exist. They are, however, the Gods of many of my distant ancestors as well as those who have called me to Them. I also honor my ancestors, and other beings traditionally honored in my tradition (house-spirits, land-wights, dises, alfs, etc.).

 

Ask any two pagans what they believe, and you're likely to get at least three answers.:tongue_smilie:

[KingM]

Ask any two pagans what they believe, and you're likely to get at least three answers.:tongue_smilie:

 

Don't worry, once the movement gets big enough a priestly class will arise and move swiftly to snuff out heretical thoughts. ;)

[Desert Rat]

I classify myself as pagan by the old definition which was non-Christian. I don't believe in many gods or one god. I don't even believe in Mother Earth, per se. I do think that nature based religions make more sense to me. I listen to prophets' teachings including Confusius, Buddha, Christ, Ghandi, and many others.

I am not arrogant enough to think that any one religion is the end all be all. I can't wrap my head around modern religions. I was raised in the Christian faith (Methodist and Lutheran) and it just isn't logical. I'm very logical. I think that faith has everything, EVERYTHING, to do with what you believe. I just can't have faith. And believe me, there have been times in my life where I have mourned my lack of faith. It's just not something I can get.

As to the huge question everyone asks: What happens when you die, if not heaven or reincarnation? Well, we are bodies of energy. When we die our physical body ceases to have that energy. But energy cannot die, it can only be transferred. So, our energy transfers. Whether we are spirits with memories and personalities, I don't know. I guess we'll find out. It's the only thing I'm really looking forward to in the whole death process is finding out which one of us (ie religions and beliefs) was right. :o

[rowan25]

That would be awesome! Well, except for the blood eagle part. ;)

 

Speaking seriously to your point, I'm 1/8 Danish, 1/16 Swedish, and of my English and Scottish ancestors, at least half either came from the Danelaw or were Anglo Saxons displaced by the Norman invasion, so this is my ancestral religion too, to all intents and purposes. The rest are Celts from Scotland.

 

I once published a lengthy article in Military History Magazine about the war between Alfred the Great and the Viking invasions of Britain, so I probably do know more than the average person, personal heritage aside.

 

And to a certain extent I feel a kinship with these ancestors of mine and their religion, but only to the extent that I know about it. But what if I didn't? Would I still feel some resonance with these ancient gods without knowing why?

 

Again, just curious about your perspective.

The idea of ancestral memory intrigues me. I have a large portion of Scottish blood. I have always felt drawn to all things Scottish and adore bagpipes. This was before other family members had done any family history, so I didn't know that was in my history.

 

My husband is half Norweigan and half Italian---totally HATES bagpipes!! :P But of our two kids, one is naturally drawn to the pipes and the other is naturally repelled by them.

 

I'm looking forward to following this thread more to send me off in other research directions! :D

[Nicole M]

That would be awesome! Well, except for the blood eagle part. ;)

 

Speaking seriously to your point, I'm 1/8 Danish, 1/16 Swedish, and of my English and Scottish ancestors, at least half either came from the Danelaw or were Anglo Saxons displaced by the Norman invasion, so this is my ancestral religion too, to all intents and purposes. The rest are Celts from Scotland.

 

I once published a lengthy article in Military History Magazine about the war between Alfred the Great and the Viking invasions of Britain, so I probably do know more than the average person, personal heritage aside.

 

And to a certain extent I feel a kinship with these ancestors of mine and their religion, but only to the extent that I know about it. But what if I didn't? Would I still feel some resonance with these ancient gods without knowing why?

 

Again, just curious about your perspective.

 

Just want to interject here (pardon me) that the great dancer / choreographer Martha Graham spoke about this in her autobiography, Blood Memory. Worth a read if you're interested in this idea of resonance with ancient gods without knowing why.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Memory-Martha-Graham/dp/0671782177/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246555318&sr=8-1

[Rosie_0801]

Oops. I fall into the "mostly vegan" category and play SCA! I'm such a stereotype!

 

My question for board members is this. Do you really believe in multiple gods and are these gods the old-time Greek or Germanic pantheons? The same question applies to those who believe in an Earth Mother or some other non-monotheistic deity.

 

Did you do a board search on pagan threads? There were a few of epic scale a few months back. To answer your questions though, I don't do gods. I'm a Western Taoist/Pagan, and that's where the Western Taoist bit comes in. While I don't believe in any gods, I accept that gods are real and meaningful though. Why? The concept of gods is so widespread and effects us all so much, that makes them real. Like myth becomes part of history, even if the original story never happened. Does that make sense?

 

Do you have an organized theology and if so, what is it?

 

I don't really know what that means. Are you asking if there are any fundamental points that all pagans believe? This book offers a good study of paganism. It would answer those sorts of questions quite well. Or are you asking our personal spiritual beliefs? If the latter, maybe ask more specific questions. I don't deal so well with broad and vague questions, lol.

 

Rosie

[Firefly]

Oops. I fall into the "mostly vegan" category and play SCA! I'm such a stereotype!

 

Geesh Rosie, you're really giving us all a bad name! :lol: ;)

[Amy in NH]

I do believe in a higher power encompassing both male and female energies: God/Goddess, Universe, the Force (LOL)... whatever you want to call it... the stream of life force that we are all connected to.... any specific gods/godesses.

 

This I cut and pasted from a previous thread, to add a bit of clarification:

 

I have read extensively on theology and studied different religions. Paganism speaks to me because there is no one RIGHT way... everyone must follow their own spiritual path. It does not condemn others who chose a different path. I like viewing life as part of a never ending cycle rather than a linear path with an endpoint; being part of the endless cycle of birth, growth, death, rebirth... I do feel connected to all things, all people (even the ones that drive me crazy :001_huh:).

 

 

This is me, too.

 

 

i believe the gods exist on the level of energy manifestation, not so much on the literal level.

 

 

And this.

 

I do think that nature based religions make more sense to me. I listen to prophets' teachings including Confusius, Buddha, Christ, Ghandi, and many others...Well, we are bodies of energy. When we die our physical body ceases to have that energy. But energy cannot die, it can only be transferred.

 

And this.

 

I do believe that all living things are the same energy force, the whole of which is the "God" of all the different religions. When we are born, we are still connected, but also somewhat disconnected, and when we die our energy "returns" to the collective.

 

Not a vegetarian or vegan. Plants are alive, too, after all. I do identify with UU principles, though. I do sometimes feel like I was born in the wrong "time", and wish that we lived in "simpler" ways, but I don't belong to the SCA or any other re-enactment group.

[Jenny in Atl]

The idea of ancestral memory intrigues me. I have a large portion of Scottish blood. I have always felt drawn to all things Scottish and adore bagpipes. This was before other family members had done any family history, so I didn't know that was in my history.

 

My husband is half Norweigan and half Italian---totally HATES bagpipes!! :P But of our two kids, one is naturally drawn to the pipes and the other is naturally repelled by them.

 

I'm looking forward to following this thread more to send me off in other research directions! :D

 

I've always wondered if I had some unknown Mexican or Latin American ancestors. But then again, I also love/drawn-to numerous other cultures (European, African, Middle Eastern, Native American, Asian). Maybe my ancestors got around more than what was reported. :001_huh:

[rowan25]

Maybe my ancestors got around more than what was reported. :001_huh:

:lol:

 

That's possible!! I was told that my dad's family history is that they were Russian Jews kicked out of Russia, settling in Spain and eventually making their way down into south Louisiana. If any of that is true, who knows!! I haven't seen the research. But it makes a good story. :D

[Deidre in GA]

I classify myself as pagan by the old definition which was non-Christian. I don't believe in many gods or one god. I don't even believe in Mother Earth, per se. I do think that nature based religions make more sense to me. I listen to prophets' teachings including Confusius, Buddha, Christ, Ghandi, and many others.

I am not arrogant enough to think that any one religion is the end all be all. I can't wrap my head around modern religions. I was raised in the Christian faith (Methodist and Lutheran) and it just isn't logical. I'm very logical. I think that faith has everything, EVERYTHING, to do with what you believe. I just can't have faith. And believe me, there have been times in my life where I have mourned my lack of faith. It's just not something I can get.

As to the huge question everyone asks: What happens when you die, if not heaven or reincarnation? Well, we are bodies of energy. When we die our physical body ceases to have that energy. But energy cannot die, it can only be transferred. So, our energy transfers. Whether we are spirits with memories and personalities, I don't know. I guess we'll find out. It's the only thing I'm really looking forward to in the whole death process is finding out which one of us (ie religions and beliefs) was right. :o

 

this is very close to my spiritual belief. my son and i identify as Quakers (Society of Friends) but our Meeting is inclusive of a wide range of believers; atheist to Christian Bible followers. amazingly, we are able to worship (in silence for the most part) and work with each other.

[Marylou]

This I cut and pasted from a previous thread, to add a bit of clarification:

 

I have read extensively on theology and studied different religions. Paganism speaks to me because there is no one RIGHT way... everyone must follow their own spiritual path. It does not condemn others who chose a different path. I like viewing life as part of a never ending cycle rather than a linear path with an endpoint; being part of the endless cycle of birth, growth, death, rebirth... I do feel connected to all things, all people (even the ones that drive me crazy :001_huh:). So no, there is no organized theology behind what I believe. But again, you will get many different views here from other pagans.

 

HTH

 

Hmm, I don't feel like I articulated that very well, but there you have it!

 

This is very interesting to me (the bold part). I guess my question would be: is it just your opinion or do you see this as indisputable? There are MANY things in life that are right one way and one way only--a flashlight won't work with the batteries in wrong, a cake recipe changed won't produce the desired result, a child can't be conceived without the sperm and egg coming together--I could go on and on. There is only one right way for millions of things in our daily lives. I'm just wondering if this is a common belief, namely that there is not one right way to God?

[Rosie_0801]

This is very interesting to me (the bold part). I guess my question would be: is it just your opinion or do you see this as indisputable? I'm just wondering if this is a common belief, namely that there is not one right way to God?

 

It's pretty much a fundamental belief of Pagans that there isn't one right spiritual path that applies to everyone. I don't know any who say there is, and if they did, I would think them immature. Now I'm not saying that any of you Christians are immature for thinking there is only one right and true path, I'm talking about Pagans (if there are any) who hold that attitude. Pagans don't believe there is any Hell to be avoided, so the "saved" business is a non issue. As far as I know, Pagans don't believe in any sort of heaven that requires specific behaviour to achieve. If there is no hell, and heaven doesn't require specific comments on your report card, there is no reason for there to be a right and true way of doing things or believing because there isn't a wrong way. I really do recommend that book I posted the link to before, it's a good volume. It does have study questions in it, so I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who feels their faith requires constant vigilance to protect it (the type of person who don't do things in case it might cause them some doubt,) but if you're asking questions here, you probably don't fall into that category :)

 

Make sense? I'm sure the other pagans will jump in if they disagree, lol.

 

Rosie

[lionfamily1999]

This is very interesting to me (the bold part). I guess my question would be: is it just your opinion or do you see this as indisputable? There are MANY things in life that are right one way and one way only--a flashlight won't work with the batteries in wrong, a cake recipe changed won't produce the desired result, a child can't be conceived without the sperm and egg coming together--I could go on and on. There is only one right way for millions of things in our daily lives. I'm just wondering if this is a common belief, namely that there is not one right way to God?

There are tons of different batteries you can use, you just have to APPLY them correctly. There are COUNTLESS cake recipes, as long as you follow the instructions you're good. There's plenty of ways to introduce sperm and egg, as long as they meet up eventually.

 

IOW, even with your examples, there are infinite ways to come to the same conclusion (a working flashlight, a cake, a baby, a relationships with God(s)).

[KarenNC]

Well, let's see. Hard polytheist here. We follow the Olympians. That means that yes, we do indeed say prayers, make offerings and pour libations to Them. For us, it is usually to Hermes, Hera, Hestia, Zeus, Athena, with occasional ones to Apollo, Demeter, etc if the occasion warrants it. We have several altars in our house---one to Hestia in the kitchen, one for Athena in the living room (my daughter has her own to Athena in her bedroom), one for Zeus and Hera in our bedroom, one to Columbia and one for our ancestors on the mantel, a larger general purpose one outside. I interact with the Gods as independent beings with distinct personalities, whose exact nature I do not fully comprehend (well, not a God, am I ;)). That is the way in which They chose to interact with me, so I go with it.

 

Obviously, I believe that my religion is "right" because if I didn't I certainly wouldn't bother to choose one that is so outside of the norm for my family and society. If it didn't really matter which one one chose, I would still be Christian in name at least. I am where I am because I could no longer deny it. As to whether or not others should worship my Gods, well, I figure the Gods are perfectly capable of handling that without my assistance if They want it.

 

Our offerings and libations are typically of wine, grain, part of a meal, etc while wearing our regular clothes and in English mostly as I don't know ancient Greek---They seem to understand. I am not an ancient Athenian, and see no reason that the Gods expect me to be so (besides, ever tried to keep a hecatomb of oxen in a suburban backyard;)). I do not feel that we have to do exactly what the ancients did in order to have relationship with the Gods, though we certainly look to the stories the ancients told and the ways that they interacted with the Gods for inspiration and guidance. We celebrate the changing of the seasons, with primary attention to the solstices and equinoxes, as they occur in our actual area, not as they do either in ancient Greece or Great Britain. We are more about a relationship with our actual natural world here than a symbolic one as many Neopagans do.

 

These are the Gods of my cultural ancestry as a part of Western civilization, but not of my blood ancestry. My ancestry is Scots, English, German, Swiss, French, but the Germanic and Celtic pantheons have never called to me in any way other than mild appreciation of the stories, art and music. They do not draw me spiritually. Neither do the Native American pantheons---the Gods of the place in which I live. The Olympians have drawn me since at minimum the age of 10, long before I knew that anyone actually still worshiped them (and despite the fact that I was raised in about as saturated a conservative Protestant Christian life as is possible). It took a few decades of slapping me upside the head for me to understand and pay attention, but eventually I got it.:001_smile:

 

As for stereotypes:

We do belong to our local UU church and have for about 12 years. It gives us an IRL community with whom we can gather, get involved in social justice, etc. It's not a perfect fit as we are not typical (if that word can be used) of either Neopagans or UUs. We are not vegetarian, but we are striving to be more aware of the impact of our existence in the web of life and to do more local living and eating. It is always going to be a balancing act of what we can and are willing to realistically do in order to live as much by our principles as possible. We were heavily involved in the SCA for several years, but I was not Neopagan until several years after that involvement ended (I was Episcopalian at the time, still trying to find a way to remain even nominally a Christian). I have zero interest in any kind of magic(k), spells, etc---my religion is about piety and relationship with the Gods and the rest of the world.

 

I am no more for or against strictly patriarchal monotheistic religions than I am strictly monotheistic matriarchal religions. I see little difference between the two based on the ascribed gender of the deity. Monotheism simply does not adequately describe the spiritual reality that I have encountered and try as I did for decades, I have been unable to reconcile the two. I don't really see a difference between "women's spirituality", "men's spirituality" and "human spirituality".

 

The groups with which we are currently most heavily involved: Neos Alexandria http://www.neosalexandria.org/ and Hellenion http://www.hellenion.org/. We have been involved in other Neopagan groups in the past and still value the relationships we made in some of them, but these are the best fits at this part of our journey. This involvement is pretty much entirely online, as I don't know that there *are* any other Hellenic Neopagans in our state, much less our immediate area.

 

If you have more interest in our personal story, I can refer you to my husband's blogposts from a couple of years ago:

Why polytheism http://executivepagan.wordpress.com/2007/03/09/why-polytheism/

Why hellenism http://executivepagan.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/why-hellenism/

He has a lot of other very interesting things to say (at least I think so;)) as do the other Neopagan bloggers on his blogroll (of varying types of Neopaganism---they are worth a look) and those of other religions. Do realize that these linked posts are two years old and nothing is static---hopefully we all continue to grow and deepen in our understanding of our spiritual relationships.

Edited July 2, 2009 by KarenNC

[KingM]

For us, it is usually to Hermes, Hera, Hestia, Zeus, Athena, with occasional ones to Apollo, Demeter, etc

 

Hey, my wife worships Apollo, too. And also Starbuck a little bit.

Edited July 3, 2009 by KingM
bad spelling

[Firefly]

This is very interesting to me (the bold part). I guess my question would be: is it just your opinion or do you see this as indisputable? There are MANY things in life that are right one way and one way only--a flashlight won't work with the batteries in wrong, a cake recipe changed won't produce the desired result, a child can't be conceived without the sperm and egg coming together--I could go on and on. There is only one right way for millions of things in our daily lives. I'm just wondering if this is a common belief, namely that there is not one right way to God?

 

Rosie and lionfamily summed my thoughts up nicely, so I won't bore you with a rephrasing! ;)

[LaxMom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefly

I do believe in a higher power encompassing both male and female energies: God/Goddess, Universe, the Force (LOL)... whatever you want to call it... the stream of life force that we are all connected to.... any specific gods/godesses.

 

This I cut and pasted from a previous thread, to add a bit of clarification:

 

I have read extensively on theology and studied different religions. Paganism speaks to me because there is no one RIGHT way... everyone must follow their own spiritual path. It does not condemn others who chose a different path. I like viewing life as part of a never ending cycle rather than a linear path with an endpoint; being part of the endless cycle of birth, growth, death, rebirth... I do feel connected to all things, all people (even the ones that drive me crazy :001_huh:).

 

This is me, too.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeathenMom

 

i believe the gods exist on the level of energy manifestation, not so much on the literal level.

 

And this.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalah

I do think that nature based religions make more sense to me. I listen to prophets' teachings including Confusius, Buddha, Christ, Ghandi, and many others...Well, we are bodies of energy. When we die our physical body ceases to have that energy. But energy cannot die, it can only be transferred.

 

And this.

 

I do believe that all living things are the same energy force, the whole of which is the "God" of all the different religions. When we are born, we are still connected, but also somewhat disconnected, and when we die our energy "returns" to the collective.

 

Not a vegetarian or vegan. Plants are alive, too, after all. I do identify with UU principles, though. I do sometimes feel like I was born in the wrong "time", and wish that we lived in "simpler" ways, but I don't belong to the SCA or any other re-enactment group.

__________________

Thanks, Amy, that is essentially my response. I believe the personification of divine energy is the creation of man. It doesn't make that personification any more or less valid. I believe that, since everybody's experience is different, everyone's perception and path will be as well.

[Saille]

Well, I'm a pantheist rather than a polytheist, so I see every name/face we put to God/Goddess as an attempt to understand a piece of something too large to grasp in its entirety. That doesn't mean I don't relate to specific deities on a deeper, more personal level, but I'm highly unlikely to debate the existence of one vs. another. I believe that the issue of religion is humanity's great test, and that transcending dogmatic conflicts is the key.

 

And yes, I am also UU.

[AlmiraGulch]

I classify myself as pagan by the old definition which was non-Christian. I don't believe in many gods or one god. I don't even believe in Mother Earth, per se. I do think that nature based religions make more sense to me. I listen to prophets' teachings including Confusius, Buddha, Christ, Ghandi, and many others.

I am not arrogant enough to think that any one religion is the end all be all. I can't wrap my head around modern religions. I was raised in the Christian faith (Methodist and Lutheran) and it just isn't logical. I'm very logical. I think that faith has everything, EVERYTHING, to do with what you believe. I just can't have faith. And believe me, there have been times in my life where I have mourned my lack of faith. It's just not something I can get.

As to the huge question everyone asks: What happens when you die, if not heaven or reincarnation? Well, we are bodies of energy. When we die our physical body ceases to have that energy. But energy cannot die, it can only be transferred. So, our energy transfers. Whether we are spirits with memories and personalities, I don't know. I guess we'll find out. It's the only thing I'm really looking forward to in the whole death process is finding out which one of us (ie religions and beliefs) was right. :o

 

Looks like you and I share a nearly identical believe system! I appreciate how well you've stated it here. :-)

[rowan25]

 

And yes, I am also UU.

What is UU?

 

Also any books or websites anyone can direct me toward to learn more about all of these would be greatly appreciated.

 

Sometimes I feel the only thing that keeps me Christian is fear of familial reprisals. :tongue_smilie:

[KarenNC]

What is UU?

 

Unitarian Universalism http://www.uua.org

[ekarl2]

 

Not a vegetarian or vegan. Plants are alive, too, after all.

 

I don't mean to hijack this thread AT ALL, but can I just say :iagree:!!!!

 

I've often wondered if the poor little plants out there desperately wish they could either make sounds or have sweet, sad eyes so they would be paid attention to ... I mean, how do we know they're not screaming their heads off and we just can't hear it????:tongue_smilie:

[BillieBoy]

 

however, this calls into question what it is to exist. i happen to think that the gods of the Germanic pantheon are my literal ancestors and therefore exist in my DNA and consciousness. so i believe the gods exist on the level of energy manifestation, not so much on the literal level. i would NEVER expect to 'hear' Freya talking to me, or to 'see' Odin before me. however, the more i strive to attain a more spiritual enlightenment, the more 'real' the gods become within myself.

 

does that make a lick of sense?

:001_unsure:

 

This is truly an interesting perspective. Thank you for sharing. Are you interfering that with your path of spiritual enlightenment you are closer to understanding the human elements that these gods represent? This seems not unlike many other paths to awareness I’ve run across. I am very curious as to the DNA reference. I’ve often pondered ancestral memories as a theory. I’ve also wondered about environmental influences too.

I am the preverbal human mutt; Vietnamese, French, Scottish, Lakota Indian, Chinese, English, and the list goes on…. I grew up an American citizen, with a Protestant turned agnostic father and a semi-practicing Buddhist mother, in a Muslim middle-eastern country and went to a Catholic boarding school. Combined I can’t imagine what my DNA and environment influences what look like on a chart. :001_huh:

[Marylou]

It's pretty much a fundamental belief of Pagans that there isn't one right spiritual path that applies to everyone. I don't know any who say there is, and if they did, I would think them immature. Now I'm not saying that any of you Christians are immature for thinking there is only one right and true path, I'm talking about Pagans (if there are any) who hold that attitude. Pagans don't believe there is any Hell to be avoided, so the "saved" business is a non issue. As far as I know, Pagans don't believe in any sort of heaven that requires specific behaviour to achieve. If there is no hell, and heaven doesn't require specific comments on your report card, there is no reason for there to be a right and true way of doing things or believing because there isn't a wrong way. I really do recommend that book I posted the link to before, it's a good volume. It does have study questions in it, so I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who feels their faith requires constant vigilance to protect it (the type of person who don't do things in case it might cause them some doubt,) but if you're asking questions here, you probably don't fall into that category :)

 

Make sense? I'm sure the other pagans will jump in if they disagree, lol.

 

Rosie

 

Thanks for the book recommendation. And FTR in true Christianity a person can't do anything to achieve salvation (which isn't just salvation from hell)--for a different thread, I know :)

 

There are tons of different batteries you can use, you just have to APPLY them correctly. There are COUNTLESS cake recipes, as long as you follow the instructions you're good. There's plenty of ways to introduce sperm and egg, as long as they meet up eventually.

 

IOW, even with your examples, there are infinite ways to come to the same conclusion (a working flashlight, a cake, a baby, a relationships with God(s)).

 

But my analogy is for a SPECIFIC flashlight, for a SPECIFIC cake and the birth of a SPECIFIC creature. Different analogy, but thanks for your thoughts :)

[lionfamily1999]

Thanks for the book recommendation. And FTR in true Christianity a person can't do anything to achieve salvation (which isn't just salvation from hell)--for a different thread, I know :)

 

I wasn't aware you were Pagan...

 

But my analogy is for a SPECIFIC flashlight, for a SPECIFIC cake and the birth of a SPECIFIC creature. Different analogy, but thanks for your thoughts :)

I've never heard of any flashlight that required a specific type of battery... All the same, any particular cake, any particular creature, needs the "right ingredients" and the definition of right depends on the person. Some people prefer Duncan Hines, others made from scratch. Different strokes for different folks, so to speak.

[Ravin]

Don't worry, once the movement gets big enough a priestly class will arise and move swiftly to snuff out heretical thoughts. ;)

 

Well, Wiccans generally hold themselves to ALL be in the priestly class. It's rather like herding cats.

 

Heathens tend to acknowledge that a priestly class might be a good idea, as long as they don't get any notion about actually telling the rest of us what to do. It's rather like trying to herd cats, too, only with stronger opinions.

 

As far as I know, Pagans don't believe in any sort of heaven that requires specific behaviour to achieve.

Rosie

 

Well, in Asatru there's the notion that there are certain special places in the afterlife that aren't just for anyone. Most notably, Valhalla is for heroes who fall in battle. And particularly dishonorable people may have an unpleasant afterlife, but for most it's at worst boring. And reincarnation, of at least part of the soul-complex, is a factor as well. On the whole, it's complex, hazy, and not really all that important, compared to how we live in the here-and-now.

[Melinda in VT]

I don't mean to hijack this thread AT ALL, but can I just say :iagree:!!!!

 

I've often wondered if the poor little plants out there desperately wish they could either make sounds or have sweet, sad eyes so they would be paid attention to ... I mean, how do we know they're not screaming their heads off and we just can't hear it????:tongue_smilie:

 

I have a song for you!

 

It's Tom Paxton's "Don't Slay that Potato." Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be available on YouTube but you can google the lyrics.

[Night Elf]

This is very interesting to me (the bold part). I guess my question would be: is it just your opinion or do you see this as indisputable? There are MANY things in life that are right one way and one way only--a flashlight won't work with the batteries in wrong, a cake recipe changed won't produce the desired result, a child can't be conceived without the sperm and egg coming together--I could go on and on. There is only one right way for millions of things in our daily lives. I'm just wondering if this is a common belief, namely that there is not one right way to God?

 

:lol::lol::lol: This struck me as absolutely hilarious! I'm sorry, I really don't mean to offend you. What I see you as saying is that there is only one right way to do some things, such as working batteries, cake recipes and conception, therefore there must be only one way to God? That's a new one for me. And it's not from a lack of trying. I even posted somewhat recently asking for help on finding my faith in christianity again. I followed up on all suggestions including talking with people at some local churches. It's just not believable for me.

 

I identify more with paganism than any other belief system. I do believe in a higher power but I feel it in my very soul as much as christians feel God in their souls. I do not have an organized theology as I don't feel I need one. I act and think as I believe I should act. I've had christians tell me that the only way to have morals is to get them from God and the Bible, but obviously that is wrong as I don't believe in God or the Bible and I absolutely have morals!

 

I forgot to add: I'm not vegetarian, don't have negative feelings toward any religion or set of beliefs, don't have a strong environmental stand, and have never been associated with the SCA. :)

Edited July 3, 2009 by Night Elf

[KarenNC]

I have a song for you!

 

It's Tom Paxton's "Don't Slay that Potato." Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be available on YouTube but you can google the lyrics.

 

Another is "Carrot Juice is Murder" by The Arrogant Worms (it is on YouTube).;)

[KarenNC]

Have to apologize for an earlier misstatement. I had thought my husband was officially involved with Hellenion, but no, he says we were not ever officially affiliated with them. Just to clarify:). Still good info on a portion of the Hellenic Neopagan world, though.

[HeathenMom]

This is truly an interesting perspective. Thank you for sharing. Are you interfering that with your path of spiritual enlightenment you are closer to understanding the human elements that these gods represent?

 

the more a person strives to know the gods, the more present and powerful they become. not only does the perception of the gods themselves increase, but the understanding of their role in nature, human consciousness, and the cycles of life.

 

 

This seems not unlike many other paths to awareness I’ve run across. I am very curious as to the DNA reference. I’ve often pondered ancestral memories as a theory. I’ve also wondered about environmental influences too.

 

well, if you consider all that our DNA encodes, it's really not too much of a stretch to think there is a spiritual aspect as well. i think most Germanic Heathens believe that they are literal descendants from the gods, and their call and strength are literally in our blood.

 

 

 

and for the record, i'm not a vegetarian (although i am a bit of a health nut...make that fanantic), our Hearth's rituals may seem a bit re-enactment-ish to the outsider but we don't dress up or anything, and we are environmentally aware...but in a really practical way. for example, we honor our Mother Jorth and may organize trash pick-ups but buying into the materialistic 'green' craze is not really a priority.

[Marylou]

:lol::lol::lol: This struck me as absolutely hilarious! I'm glad you're happy! I'm sorry, I really don't mean to offend you. No offense taken! What I see you as saying is that there is only one right way to do some things, such as working batteries, cake recipes and conception, therefore there must be only one way to God? No, that's not what I'm saying :001_smile: That's a new one for me. And it's not from a lack of trying. I even posted somewhat recently asking for help on finding my faith in christianity again. I followed up on all suggestions including talking with people at some local churches. It's just not believable for me.

 

I identify more with paganism than any other belief system. I do believe in a higher power but I feel it in my very soul as much as christians feel God in their souls. I do not have an organized theology as I don't feel I need one. I act and think as I believe I should act. I've had christians tell me that the only way to have morals is to get them from God and the Bible, but obviously that is wrong as I don't believe in God or the Bible and I absolutely have morals! Thanks for sharing.

 

I forgot to add: I'm not vegetarian, don't have negative feelings toward any religion or set of beliefs, don't have a strong environmental stand, and have never been associated with the SCA. :)

:001_smile:

[Ravin]

I forgot to add, too: I used to be veg, but I'm not now. And I'm definitely involved in the SCA.

[Peela]

I have statues and pictures of several deities in my home, and I see them as symbols, metaphors, archetypes so to speak. That doesn't lessen their usefulness to me.

 

(Lol, and I was vegetarian for years, and am a member of the SCA, but am not really pagan, although I love all earth religions and religions that worship nature and being in tune with nature, although for me, I gravitate toward the Indian/Hindu aspect of those).

[proverbs356lady]

I'm new to this board and must admit this has been a most interesting thread.

Could someone tell me what SCA stands for?

I'm also curious as to why each of you believe what you believe? Is it a book that has you convinced, or feelings, or visions, or logic, or academics, or whatever. I'm not trying to debate who's right or wrong, I'd just love to hear your reasons for being a pagan.

[proverbs356lady]

Don't worry, once the movement gets big enough a priestly class will arise and move swiftly to snuff out heretical thoughts. ;)

Could you explain what you mean by this?

:confused:

[Caitilin]

SCA is Society for Creative Anachronism. :)