A question about milk

[Ibbygirl]

I took my daughter for her annual physical yesterday and when the pediatrician asked me if she drank milk I answered, "oh yes, lots of milk." To which she replied, "No. Not lots of milk. No more than 16 ounces a day." I was surprised and like a dummy I didn't ask her why.

 

I always heard that kids (especially girls) were supposed to have like 4 eight ounce glasses of milk a day. When did they change this? And does anyone know why??

 

Thanks to all who reply. :)

[Jumping In Puddles]

That exact scenario happened a month ago at my son's 6 year check up!

 

The doctor said that to much milk inhibits the body to taking up iron so by drinking more than 16 oz milk, he may become iron deficient.

 

I asked about yogurt and cheese in addition to the milk and he said that is not a huge deal but when someone drinks a lot of milk on a daily basis, it is a big deal.

 

So my dc now have 2 glasses of milk a day plus a little yogurt a few times a week and cheese every once in a while.

 

This was the first year I've ever been asked by my pediatrician. :)

[newbie]

I remember but its been eleven yrs. My dd was very chunky and I took her to a weight specialist and he asked what she was drinking and I said, water, milk and juice. He cut all milk and juice and said she would get enough calcium thru veggies and vitamins.

 

She did lose weight from cutting those two. I dont know if that answers your question, just a lil tidbit.

[Ibbygirl]

That exact scenario happened a month ago at my son's 6 year check up!

 

The doctor said that to much milk inhibits the body to taking up iron so by drinking more than 16 oz milk, he may become iron deficient.

 

I asked about yogurt and cheese in addition to the milk and he said that is not a huge deal but when someone drinks a lot of milk on a daily basis, it is a big deal.

 

So my dc now have 2 glasses of milk a day plus a little yogurt a few times a week and cheese every once in a while.

 

This was the first year I've ever been asked by my pediatrician. :)

 

 

Oh wow!! I had no idea! It's amazing to me how things change all the time. You would think with all the nutritional information we have that they would have found that out sooner, huh? I mean, kids have been drinking milk for ages! hehe

 

I'm glad to know that it doesn't apply to cheese and yogurt though. She will be disappointed because she really loves milk, but she likes cheese too. :) She's my little mouse! hehehe

 

So I guess this applies to adults as well, no?

[Karen sn]

Too much milk will cause you to lose calcium.

[Peek a Boo]

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/weeklyquestion/a/04_toomuch_milk.htm

[joannqn]

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/weeklyquestion/a/04_toomuch_milk.htm

 

 

Maybe I should have my 2 year old's iron checked. He loves milk and hates to eat, so it seems. Although he doesn't seem to exhibit any of the symptoms of anemia.

[Ibbygirl]

Too much milk will cause you to lose calcium.

 

 

Really?? Wow!! How does it cause you to lose calcium?

[Ibbygirl]

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/weeklyquestion/a/04_toomuch_milk.htm

 

 

YIKES!! A blood transfusion!! That's scary!

[Rosie_0801]

You might find parts of The China Study interesting to read. Not exactly water-tight science, but tight enough to make you think. From what I can gather from that book, and I'm not so great with biochemistry especially if I read it while pregnant, is that animal protein makes your body more acidic. Your body doesn't like this much, so tries to restore the balance by treating it with something alkaline. What do we have in our bodies that is alkaline? Ah yes, all that calcium we have stashed in our teeth and bones...

 

Rosie

Edited June 13, 2009 by Rosie_0801

[Ibbygirl]

You might find parts of The China Study interesting to read. Not exactly water-tight science, but tight enough to make you think...

 

Rosie

 

 

I actually have this book. I am working my way through it. I kind of skipped the first chapters after they just kept going on and on about how the test was done. Normally I would find this more interesting, but I'm usually reading late at night before bed and I kept falling asleep at the same parts. hehehe I haven't got to any part about milk yet. I just read about how the Chinese are a mostly genetically homogenous society and yet the cancer rates were so different in places. That's pretty much how far I got so far into the book. :)

[Lawana]

Really?? Wow!! How does it cause you to lose calcium?

 

The short answer is that intake of animal protein (from milk, for example) results in an acidic imbalance in the body and calcium is pulled primarily from the bones to help neutralize the acid.

 

Lawana

[Ibbygirl]

The short answer is that intake of animal protein (from milk, for example) results in an acidic imbalance in the body and calcium is pulled primarily from the bones to help neutralize the acid.

 

Lawana

 

 

Whoa! I didn't know that. I thought that calcium was a building block, I didn't know that it could neutralize acid. :eek:

[Pip]

This may be controversial and I know many of you will call me crazy.

 

Milk, epecially pasteurized, homogeonized cows' milk is not the wonder food people think it is. All humans, to some extent, are lactose intolerant. Pasteurization, especially the ultra pasteurization practiced by larger dairies, kills most of the nutirients in the milk and it cannot be replaced adequately. Homogeonization breaks down the molecular structure of the milk and releases an enzyme that is a contributor to heart disease. (I'm not a big fan of any food that is not in the state nature intended it to be in). Hormone in the milk can add to weight gain. the dairy lobby is one of the most powerful entities in DC. Isn't it strange that the US has one of the rates of milk consumption but we have a very high rate of osteoporosis?

 

We live in a state where we can get raw milk and that is what we drink. We have never gotten sick. DDs allergies cleared up. In fact, all of our allergies got significantly better. We drink both cow and goat milk.

[Lawana]

Milk is big business. Get out The China Study and read further. The author has some insights into how big business can influence the nutritional information we are all given, especially about dairy and milk. Another interesting source in Joel Fuhrman, author of Live to Eat, and Disease Proof Your Kids.

Believe me, I was as shocked as you- I grew up on milk, the "perfect" food. But since I've been off dairy, my allergies have cleared up.

 

Lawana

[Ibbygirl]

This may be controversial and I know many of you will call me crazy.

 

Milk, epecially pasteurized, homogeonized cows' milk is not the wonder food people think it is. All humans, to some extent, are lactose intolerant. Pasteurization, especially the ultra pasteurization practiced by larger dairies, kills most of the nutirients in the milk and it cannot be replaced adequately. Homogeonization breaks down the molecular structure of the milk and releases an enzyme that is a contributor to heart disease. (I'm not a big fan of any food that is not in the state nature intended it to be in). Hormone in the milk can add to weight gain. the dairy lobby is one of the most powerful entities in DC. Isn't it strange that the US has one of the rates of milk consumption but we have a very high rate of osteoporosis?

 

We live in a state where we can get raw milk and that is what we drink. We have never gotten sick. DDs allergies cleared up. In fact, all of our allergies got significantly better. We drink both cow and goat milk.

 

 

What about the Organic milk that they sell now?? Is that any better?

[Pip]

It is still homgeonized and ultra pasteurized. Even skim milk is not completely skim and has some homgeonization. You can buy non homgeonized milk at some health food stores. It is also vat pasteurized, which means it is sanitized at 140 degrees, which is recommended, not close to 200 degrees,w hich the large dairies use.

 

You can also check the raw milk website for places to look.

 

I would go non-homogeonized over the pasteurization thing. Homogeonization can also increase mucus production over what cows milk normally causes.

[KristenS]

This is wild. And here I've been worried because my oldest went on a milk strike when we weaned him off the bottle and hasn't voluntarily had a glass of milk since. I grew up drinking gallons of the stuff, till I got pg and nauseated and can't drink it much anymore.

 

Guess I'll stop fretting and assume a kid that looks healthy probably is. Sigh.

[Ibbygirl]

It is still homgeonized and ultra pasteurized. Even skim milk is not completely skim and has some homgeonization. You can buy non homgeonized milk at some health food stores. It is also vat pasteurized, which means it is sanitized at 140 degrees, which is recommended, not close to 200 degrees,w hich the large dairies use.

 

You can also check the raw milk website for places to look.

 

I would go non-homogeonized over the pasteurization thing. Homogeonization can also increase mucus production over what cows milk normally causes.

 

 

YIKES!! Well, I bought a soymilk machine about a year ago for myself and my husband because he is lactose intolerant. (Please tell me that there is nothing wrong with soy) I usually make a milk that has soy, rice, oats and hemp seeds for us, but my daughter won't drink it at all. She's a die hard cow's milk kid, but I never had any idea of the things that you all are saying here about milk! YIKES! How is it that this isn't more widely known? Is this due the lobbyists?

 

Milk is big business. Get out The China Study and read further. The author has some insights into how big business can influence the nutritional information we are all given, especially about dairy and milk. Another interesting source in Joel Fuhrman, author of Live to Eat, and Disease Proof Your Kids.

Believe me, I was as shocked as you- I grew up on milk, the "perfect" food. But since I've been off dairy, my allergies have cleared up.

 

Lawana

 

Thank you. I will commit to finishing it now! :) This is all quite shocking really! I"m so glad I started this thread! Who knew? :eek:

Edited June 13, 2009 by Ibbygirl

[Blessedfamily]

Pediatricians ask during the well child check-up because too much milk causes anemia. I agree that there are other reasons not to consume too much milk in a day.

[gardening momma]

We were advised at one of dd3's check-ups to reduce her milk & cheese intake, because she has constipation issues.

[Jen in PA]

DS had his 4 year well child visit yesterday and the doc asked about milk -- but she was concerned about him getting enough, not too little. He probably drinks about 12 ounces a day, but eats lots of cheese and some yogurt. She said he "should be ok" with the amount that he's getting, but that he could certainly drink more. Both of my kids prefer soy milk to cow's milk, although I don't buy it all the time. I had been told by our previous doctor not to overdo milk with dd because it would crowd out room for solids, and that she would be exposed to a greater range of nutrients in real food. That made a lot of sense to me, since I often grab a glass of milk as a meal replacement when I'm running and don't make time to sit for a real meal.

[Rosie_0801]

Actually I do think unfermented soy is nasty stuff, and it tastes bad. That is two reasons to stay away, in my opinion!

I've been pondering on this a bit, since the China Study turned us "mostly" vegan, and I think products like kefir might be the way to go. Small, but regular doses of animal product, for the B12; and since they are fermented and not immediately pasteurized, there's plenty of the goodies added back in.

 

Rosie- who'll receive her first kefir grains from Peela this week! Thanks Peela!

 

P.S Jen in PA, don't trust everything a doctor says about nutrition. They've usually spent less time studying it than I have! Suppose you ask what your doc thinks of The China Study. Mine hadn't read it and admits to knowing nothing about veganism. Helpful, huh?

Edited June 13, 2009 by Rosie_0801

[Ibbygirl]

Actually I do think unfermented soy is nasty stuff, and it tastes bad. That is two reasons to stay away, in my opinion!

I've been pondering on this a bit, since the China Study turned us "mostly" vegan, and I think products like kefir might be the way to go. Small, but regular doses of animal product, for the B12; and since they are fermented and not immediately pasteurized, there's plenty of the goodies added back in.

 

Rosie- who'll receive her first kefir grains from Peela this week! Thanks Peela!

 

 

What is kefir Miss Rosie and do you make a drink from it or eat it?

 

Jennifer *who is too lazy too Google* :D

[Pip]

Kefir is just another way to ferment you milk and give you something like yogurt. The advantages to kefir are that you do not have to heat it - just add the grains to the milk and let it sit covered in a cool dark place for 24-48 hours, and it not only puts the acidopholus in the intestines, it encourages the growth of the colonies. Great stufll, and you can share the grains because they just keep growing. Or you can eat them when the get to be too much and you get an extra probiotic boost.

 

I think there may be issues about using it with soy or other non dairy milks as far as the grains growing.

 

There are kefir websites out there.

 

I kept kefir until last year. I had some stuff come up and my grains died. But we had a smoothie every day. And you can use it in place of buttermilk.

[Ibbygirl]

Kefir is just another way to ferment you milk and give you something like yogurt. The advantages to kefir are that you do not have to heat it - just add the grains to the milk and let it sit covered in a cool dark place for 24-48 hours, and it not only puts the acidopholus in the intestines, it encourages the growth of the colonies. Great stufll, and you can share the grains because they just keep growing. Or you can eat them when the get to be too much and you get an extra probiotic boost.

 

I think there may be issues about using it with soy or other non dairy milks as far as the grains growing.

 

There are kefir websites out there.

 

I kept kefir until last year. I had some stuff come up and my grains died. But we had a smoothie every day. And you can use it in place of buttermilk.

 

 

Oh wow! So do you add this to raw milk then or can it be used on the pasteruized stuff???

 

Sheesh, it's shocking how ignorant I am. I feel truly embarrassed that I don't know this stuff. :blushing:

[Rosie_0801]

What is kefir Miss Rosie and do you make a drink from it or eat it?

 

Jennifer *who is too lazy too Google* :D

 

Are you too lazy to read all this? http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html#intro

 

It's a fermented beverage that tastes better than it looks, I am told. Peela put some grains (bacteria colony things, not wheat) in the post on Friday so they should arrive some time this week. I should be able to comment on the taste by next weekend.

 

The website there says you can use it on any milk. The "Wild Fermentations" book listed their gatorade experiment and said it turned the grains bright blue. Sounds interesting, but icky!

 

:)

Rosie

Edited June 13, 2009 by Rosie_0801

[Jen in PA]

P.S Jen in PA, don't trust everything a doctor says about nutrition. They've usually spent less time studying it than I have! Suppose you ask what your doc thinks of The China Study. Mine hadn't read it and admits to knowing nothing about veganism. Helpful, huh?

 

I know exactly what you mean. I was just showing that what one doctor says is too much of a food, another doctor will turn around and call too little. My children are only two years apart, yet I got drastically different guidelines for feeding them in their first years. I know folks who have been strictly vegan for years who are incredibly healthy, and others who are omnivores and also very healthy. The people I know who struggle the most with nutrition are those who eat closest to the way I remember being taught to in school, so I always find that amusing.

 

My doctor recently ran through a long conversation with me puzzling over my cholesterol levels because they were so good and she figured my diet would give her clues as to why. She was utterly frustrated by the end because she didn't see a pattern. She is a great doctor, but was very much hoping to find something that fit neatly with the conventional wisdom -- and that seems to change every six months.

[Ibbygirl]

Are you too lazy to read all this? http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html#intro

 

It's a fermented beverage that tastes better than it looks, I am told. Peela put some grains (bacteria colony things, not wheat) in the post on Friday so they should arrive some time this week. I should be able to comment on the taste by next weekend.

 

The website there says you can use it on any milk. The "Wild Fermentations" book listed their gatorade experiment and said it turned the grains bright blue. Sounds interesting, but icky!

 

:)

Rosie

 

Thanks. hehehe A bright blue gatorade might appeal to kids. **Wait don't they already have a blue one??**

 

Did you know that Gatorade was invented right here in Florida?? That's why it's called Gator ade. Because of the Florida Gators Football team. :D

 

How's that for some completely useless information?? Sheesh, if I knew less of that garbage and more of the information that ya'll are talking about here on this thread I'd be much better off! My poor kids!! :(

[Ellie]

I cannot imagine any person drinking 4 8oz glasses of milk A DAY.:blink:

 

Milk is one of the most allergic foods there is. It is commonly known to cause everything from acne to terrible stomach problems.

 

I learned this over 30 years ago from the book "New Wives' Tales." I think Dr. Lendon Smith is the author.

[Garga]

AAAAAARRRRRGGGHH!!

 

Is there NOTHING that I enjoy eating that is good for me??!? I'm feeling amazingly down about this thread now. Dismay and despair.

 

I detest water or juices. Milk is the only thing I drink, except for the occasional soda when I go out.

 

sob sob sob

[Rosie_0801]

My doctor recently ran through a long conversation with me puzzling over my cholesterol levels because they were so good and she figured my diet would give her clues as to why. She was utterly frustrated by the end because she didn't see a pattern. She is a great doctor, but was very much hoping to find something that fit neatly with the conventional wisdom -- and that seems to change every six months.

 

Conventional wisdom, eh? Another book rec for your doctor: http://www.amazon.com/Jungle-Effect-Discovers-Healthiest-World-Why/dp/0061535656

 

I nearly ate this book up, it was that good :)

 

Garga, put chocolate powder in your milk and you'll feel better ;) Not healthier, but better :D I can attest that you can get used to water if you have to. Not as the only beverage, but to actually drink some once in a while! I also drink apple juice watered down 50/50 on occasion. I don't think you are ready to cure yourself yet (being cheeky :P ) so maybe you need to try kefir or something like that. Add some nice, healthy beezles to your milk and you won't have to feel dismay or dispair. You'll be able to feel virtuous and sort of "Little House on the Prairie" ish, because you will have home made, domestic looking things on your bench.

 

;)

Rosie- Domestic wannabe.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Rosie_0801

[kiana]

I cannot imagine any person drinking 4 8oz glasses of milk A DAY.:blink:

 

Milk is one of the most allergic foods there is. It is commonly known to cause everything from acne to terrible stomach problems.

 

I learned this over 30 years ago from the book "New Wives' Tales." I think Dr. Lendon Smith is the author.

 

I do! :)

 

I don't get any stomach problems unless I go over 1 gal/day :)

[Ibbygirl]

I nearly ate this book up, it was that good :)

 

Yes but is it good for you?? What is the consesus on a paper diet?? ;) :D

 

Jennifer **milk is turning me into a smart... ahem.. "donkey"** :D ;) :tongue_smilie:

[Rosie_0801]

Yes but is it good for you?? What is the consesus on a paper diet?? ;) :D

 

Actually, Darling, I have an answer for you! I read one study where they fed a group of mice on cornflakes, and another on the box, just for a laugh. The box fed mice lived longer, which strongly suggests there are more vitamins in a cardboard box than in the cornflakes!

 

!!

Rosie

[Ibbygirl]

Actually, Darling, I have an answer for you! I read one study where they fed a group of mice on cornflakes, and another on the box, just for a laugh. The box fed mice lived longer, which strongly suggests there are more vitamins in a cardboard box than in the cornflakes!

 

!!

Rosie

 

 

So you're a smart donkey too then!! :D bwahahahahaha

[RegGuheert]

Until August 2008, I drank about 5 gallons of milk each week. Then, because of a diet I was on that did not allow any calories in my drinks, I gave it up, drinking only water or black tea. Here are the results of my change:

 

- I STOPPED SNORING the very first night! MomsintheGarden is thrilled!

- I've lost 38 pounds, going from 222 lbs. to 184 lbs. I don't attribute all of this to the milk, but I certainly think it may have been most of it.

- I've saved about $600 in milk costs.

 

What's interesting is that I'm convinced I had severe withdrawal symptoms for the first two days when I gave up the milk. I had a MASSIVE headache which definitely could not be attributed to MSG, which is usually where I get them from. I believe the milk was feeding a continuous sinus infection that was causing all the congestion and snoring that I used to have. I believe the headache may have been related to die off of the sinus infection.

 

Anyway, that's my story. I don't think I'll ever drink milk again...

[Ibbygirl]

Until August 2008, I drank about 5 gallons of milk each week. Then, because of a diet I was on that did not allow any calories in my drinks, I gave it up, drinking only water or black tea. Here are the results of my change:

 

- I STOPPED SNORING the very first night! MomsintheGarden is thrilled!

- I've lost 38 pounds, going from 222 lbs. to 184 lbs. I don't attribute all of this to the milk, but I certainly think it may have been most of it.

- I've saved about $600 in milk costs.

 

What's interesting is that I'm convinced I had severe withdrawal symptoms for the first two days when I gave up the milk. I had a MASSIVE headache which definitely could not be attributed to MSG, which is usually where I get them from. I believe the milk was feeding a continuous sinus infection that was causing all the congestion and snoring that I used to have. I believe the headache may have been related to die off of the sinus infection.

 

Anyway, that's my story. I don't think I'll ever drink milk again...

 

Where do you get your calcium from now??

[RegGuheert]

I don't know. I do eat some dairy products such as cheese, ice cream and whipped cream. I eat other foods, too. Perhaps there is calcium in some of them?

[Rosie_0801]

Not Mr Reg, but we get ours mostly from green, leafy veggies. The more you eat, the more you learn to like them! Did you know it is possible to crave salad?

 

!!

Rosie- who was shocked to experience it herself :)

[Peek a Boo]

I don't know. I do eat some dairy products such as cheese, ice cream and whipped cream. I eat other foods, too. Perhaps there is calcium in some of them?

 

There's calcium in a LOT of foods!

 

http://www.soystache.com/calcium.htm

 

http://www.health.gov/DIETARYGUIDELINES/dga2005/document/html/AppendixB.htm

[Lawana]

Where do you get your calcium from now??

 

Diets rich in vegetables and fruits contain adequate calcium. Limiting animal protein, caffeine, etc. that prevents calcium loss is important in achieving calcium balance. Think about it: societies that consume virtually no dairy also have among the lowest rates of osteoporosis, and those that consume the most dairy have the highest osteoporosis rates. We are not being protected by drinking lots of milk. See The China Study and Eat to Live for more/better explanations.

 

Lawana

[RegGuheert]

Not Mr Reg, but we get ours mostly from green, leafy veggies. The more you eat, the more you learn to like them! Did you know it is possible to crave salad?

 

!!

Rosie- who was shocked to experience it herself :)

I'm good, then. MomsintheGarden makes outstanding salads containing all kinds of different greens from the garden all year except for February.

[Ibbygirl]

Diets rich in vegetables and fruits contain adequate calcium. Limiting animal protein, caffeine, etc. that prevents calcium loss is important in achieving calcium balance. Think about it: societies that consume virtually no dairy also have among the lowest rates of osteoporosis, and those that consume the most dairy have the highest osteoporosis rates. We are not being protected by drinking lots of milk. See The China Study and Eat to Live for more/better explanations.

 

Lawana

 

 

Garga is right. This thread is depressing! hehe *sigh* I'm not a huge meat eater, but I do like my Cuban coffee and that has LOADS of caffeine.

 

What does caffeine have with calcium loss??

[stripe]

I find it amazing that your child's doctor just said, "No, not a lot of milk" and didn't say anything more. I find it somewhat annoying to have medical professionals ask about one small portion of someone's diet and then draw conclusions that we eat like they eat. For example, I've been given comments about the number of calories in rice (you don't know how I cook it, do you?) that I found irrelevant and annoying.

[Ibbygirl]

I find it amazing that your child's doctor just said, "No, not a lot of milk" and didn't say anything more. I find it somewhat annoying to have medical professionals ask about one small portion of someone's diet and then draw conclusions that we eat like they eat. For example, I've been given comments about the number of calories in rice (you don't know how I cook it, do you?) that I found irrelevant and annoying.

 

 

hehehe You are right. So how do you cook your rice? ;) :tongue_smilie:

[kiana]

I find it amazing that your child's doctor just said, "No, not a lot of milk" and didn't say anything more. I find it somewhat annoying to have medical professionals ask about one small portion of someone's diet and then draw conclusions that we eat like they eat. For example, I've been given comments about the number of calories in rice (you don't know how I cook it, do you?) that I found irrelevant and annoying.

 

 

Oh, wow, I agree, and this gets my goat. I filled out a diet questionnaire when I went for my physical, and they told me "You eat too many calories, you need to cut down." Hello, you have no idea of how much exercise I do, and while my BMI is high my waistline/body fat % is NOT. Grr. It still ticks me off, because the doctor argued with me for about 20 minutes. Then he told me I exercised TOO much.

[Ellie]

I do! :)

 

I don't get any stomach problems unless I go over 1 gal/day :)

::falls over is a dead faint at the thought of anyone drinking a gallon a day::

[Ibbygirl]

Oh, wow, I agree, and this gets my goat. I filled out a diet questionnaire when I went for my physical, and they told me "You eat too many calories, you need to cut down." Hello, you have no idea of how much exercise I do, and while my BMI is high my waistline/body fat % is NOT. Grr. It still ticks me off, because the doctor argued with me for about 20 minutes. Then he told me I exercised TOO much.

 

 

LOL Sigh!! What are we supposed to believe then if so many of these doctors are going on misinformation?? Geez! This is truly disheartening!

[Peela]

There is a world of difference between what is sold as "milk" in the stores, and the raw stuff produced from grass grazing cows on organic farms. Store Milk is a processed food, and the processing changes it chemically in such a way as to make it "dead" and not a healthy food.

Raw milk is food of the gods. It is full of living enzymes which actually help the milk digest. Dead milk (pasteurized and homogonised) is difficult to digest, hence all the allergies that people blame on milk. But while dead milk gives me gas, raw milk doesn't, and it digests very easily. Many people claim that when they switched to raw milk, their allergies and digestive issues with milk disappeared.

All milks are not the same. Google "raw milk". Of course, being a wonderful, healthy food, it is actually illegal in most places. I buy it direct from a farmer who sells it as "bath milk" to get around the legality issue.