Do you think our children should be independant thinkers?

[Elohcin]

My daughters are taking some summer courses at our local public school. They have always been homeschooled.

 

Today, I asked my younger daughters teacher (she is a rising 4th grader taking an Ancient Egypt course) how she was doing. She said "well" and then hesitated. So, being curious I followed up with "so what's causing trouble". Her response I thought was really interesting. She said my daughter was an independent thinker and that she read ahead too much and while she asked great questions (this is one of her very favorite subjects) she thought she should be more in line with the rest of the class.

 

Now, I was a bit surprised. I always thought this particular kids independent thinking style was one of her strengths (as well as a great strength of homeschooling and homeschoolers in general).

 

What do you think?

 

This teacher knows that my daughter is homeschooled and I am not sure that she wholly approved (not come out and said anything, just a disapproving glance when told.)

 

It has been an amusing/interesting journey for my girls into public school, but I tell you it has really affirmed my decision to homeschool and theirs!

[Barb_]

... She said my daughter was an independent thinker and that she read ahead too much and while she asked great questions (this is one of her very favorite subjects) she thought she should be more in line with the rest of the class.

 

:svengo:

 

Post this anywhere else and you'd be accused of spreading homeschooling propaganda. I don't know that I'd be sending dd back to that particular teacher. She does not deserve your daughter in her classroom.

 

Barb

[Word Nerd]

Although lip service is given to the importance of teaching kids to think for themselves, I don't personally believe that's truly a goal of public education. (Yes, I've been reading John Taylor Gatto again. ;) )

Edited June 11, 2009 by WordGirl

[Cricket]

Although lip service is given to the importance of teaching kids to think for themselves, I don't personally believe that's truly a goal of public education. (Yes, I've been reading John Taylor Gatto again. ;) )

 

:iagree: The government and big corporations want good little soldiers. :D

[Audrey]

My daughters are taking some summer courses at our local public school. They have always been homeschooled.

 

Today, I asked my younger daughters teacher (she is a rising 4th grader taking an Ancient Egypt course) how she was doing. She said "well" and then hesitated. So, being curious I followed up with "so what's causing trouble". Her response I thought was really interesting. She said my daughter was an independent thinker and that she read ahead too much and while she asked great questions (this is one of her very favorite subjects) she thought she should be more in line with the rest of the class.

 

Now, I was a bit surprised. I always thought this particular kids independent thinking style was one of her strengths (as well as a great strength of homeschooling and homeschoolers in general).

 

What do you think?

 

This teacher knows that my daughter is homeschooled and I am not sure that she wholly approved (not come out and said anything, just a disapproving glance when told.)

 

It has been an amusing/interesting journey for my girls into public school, but I tell you it has really affirmed my decision to homeschool and theirs!

 

 

Oh you are such a trouble-maker. Raising independent thinkers! How dare you be so nonconformist!

 

Seriously, though... most ps teachers have a tough time coping with independent thinkers, question askers and read aheaders. They prefer homogeneity. It's easier to manage a classroom when every kid is on the same page at the same time and asking the same questions, giving the same responses.

 

For some people, outside-the-box hurts their wittle bwains.

[Snickerdoodle]

She said "well" and then hesitated. So, being curious I followed up with "so what's causing trouble". Her response I thought was really interesting. She said my daughter was an independent thinker and that she read ahead too much and while she asked great questions (this is one of her very favorite subjects) she thought she should be more in line with the rest of the class.

 

 

Good grief. Ask her if she will sign that statement.

[Kathy in MD]

Do you think our children should be independant thinkers?

 

Only when they think just like me :lol:

 

Seriously, some teachers aren't prepared for kids that think differently. Other teachers don't like kids that challenge their opinions. (But this characteristic isn't limited to teachers.)

 

But I've had one teacher who pulled me aside after class to explain why she couldn't call on me all the time. she had to give the other kids a chance to answer. More importantly, I had many, many teachers that welcomed challenging questions and having to defend their answer key to the tests and, on occasion, even crediting our arguments.

 

But in a third /fourth grade class, teachers are probably less likely to run into challenging questions. They're probably more used to planting iformation and asking leading questions to guide the burgenging thought processes. Remember, your dd is still technically in the grammar phase of learning. She, by age, isn't yet in the early stage of logic. So her teacher possibly hasn't developed the skills for teaching the logic stage and definately isn't in the mind set for handling it.

[lulubelle]

I wonder what the teacher would have said if she didn't know she was homeschooled! It seems like a totally pre-judged thing to me. If she thought your daughter was from public school - I'm sure she would say how smart she is and so involved!

[Rebecca VA]

Well, it's good to be an independent thinker and to read widely, but it's also important to not be disruptive in a classroom. I'm **not saying** your daughter is like this, but some people are. If the class is talking about Ancient Egypt, they'll talk about something a little off-topic that they're interested in but no one else is. Or if the teacher is all set to lecture on mummies, the disruptive student bursts out talking about crocodiles in the Nile River. If the class is reading XYZ textbook, they're reading something completely different and claiming that XYZ is boring. It makes you wonder why they signed up for a class in the first place.

 

Again, I'm not saying that your daughter is being disruptive or taking the class off-topic, but you might want to ask the teacher if that's what she's perceiving. It might not be; it might be something very innocent, for example, your daughter might be answering questions a little too often for the teacher's liking. But in any event, you might want to ask your daughter to tone it down just a bit, for the sake of good manners. She'll probably be very glad to get back to being homeschooled after her taste of a classroom environment!

[Elohcin]

Just to follow up with Rebecca Va, it didn't sound to me like the teacher thought she was disruptive. In fact she tends to be on the quiet side. I just think the teacher has certain expectations for everyone doing the very. same. thing. She is not rude or unmannerly, I know this because she is in other classes. She is very bright and loves this topic.

[Karen in CO]

Even before I started homeschooling my oldest, our parent-teacher conferences always went like this, "Tony is very bright, but....." He doesn't follow directions; he doesn't pay attention in class; I know that he knows how to do the work, but he won't finish all of his problems; he got the right answers, but I had to take off points because he refused to show his work; although his story is great, part of the grade comes from editing and learning to make revisions, since I didn't see his revisions, I couldn't give him full credit; I know that he knows how to do the work, but he isn't solving the problems the way I taught in class - he needs to follow directions.....

 

Public school is loads of fun for kids that are actually independent thinkers.

 

My dd8 goes to a once-a-week enrichment program for home schoolers. The first time I asked her teacher about how she is in class, I got "Alexis is great in class. She is articulate and well-read." Of course that is code for the fact that she talks a lot. It was the first year of the program so by the end of the year, the teachers had adjusted to home schooled kids. I think they will be just fine next year.

[Rebecca VA]

That's wonderful, and I hope that I didn't offend you by even suggesting it. It's too bad that the teacher doesn't encourage her interests rather than trying to squelch them.

[Elohcin]

Not offended at all. I just feel pretty naive. I really had never encountered this before.

[IATeachingMom]

I'm raising an independent thinker and boy did we pay for it last year! He didn't fair well at the private preschool we were at. I was told he does not "sit and do his work like the other kids" instead he asked questions! Oh no....not question asking!;):tongue_smilie: Heaven forbid! I'm happy to have him home. The world needs more "question askers" and free thinkers alike!

[Wildiris]

ndnikiand others ~

 

What happens to these independent thinking kids when they grow up? Are they marginalized for being different? Does this exchange reflect what this teacher/school values or does it reflect the teacher's expectations of her students in general or is this teacher just burned out?

[Karen sn]

Wow. That is just scary.

Does not surprise me. The whole point of mainstream brainwashing....I mean education....is to get the kids used to doing what they are told. When they can eat, drink, pee, and how to think.

[Ruby]

You should give your daughter an outstanding achievement award. Pat yourself on the back mom. You must be doing something right. Keep up the good work. She'll probably grow up to be an enteprenuer and do things her way. Ruby

[MamaT]

It is more difficult to teach a class of kids when they are not all on the same page. I don't think that keeping things in the teacher's comfort zone is worth giving up an independent thinking child.

 

Of course we should have children who are creative, read ahead and ask good questions. That's why we homeschool them.

 

:iagree: What she said.

[The Girls' Mom]

Every parent/teacher conference I had with my oldest dd's teachers went like that.

 

"She's a VERY bright student...but she daydreams" (thinking/reading ahead)

or

" She's doodling in class or making paper figurines" (aka is bored because she's WAY ahead of what they are teaching)

or

"She's read the entire textbook!"

 

She was even told several times that she could NOT read ahead of the class :confused:

 

So now she's homeschooled :D

[mommaduck]

Every parent/teacher conference I had with my oldest dd's teachers went like that.

 

"She's a VERY bright student...but she daydreams" (thinking/reading ahead)

or

" She's doodling in class or making paper figurines" (aka is bored because she's WAY ahead of what they are teaching)

or

"She's read the entire textbook!"

 

She was even told several times that she could NOT read ahead of the class :confused:

 

So now she's homeschooled :D

 

Yep, I used to get in trouble by my teachers for reading ahead also (I couldn't stand sitting and "reading along", I was a speed reader at age 10...still got in trouble for it in 8th grade). I daydreamed (aka was BORED TO DEATH). I read books from the public library and the teachers let me, passing me just to get rid of me (learned more from the public library anyhow...who cares about Maria's bowl of nuts when I had Shakespeare. And instead of repeating the story of Abraham Lincoln for the millionth time, I had nearly 3in volumes on Marie Antoinette and Mary, Queen of Scots!). And I refused to do my work (the teachers had proven that they didn't give a rat's rear end about me).

 

 

Kudos to your daughter. I wonder, if the teacher is concerned that she is jumping ahead, that your daughter is showing she is advanced, and since it's just a summer course, could she be bumped to a higher level class?

[johnandtinagilbert]

I can't imagine, so I'd have to get more information. Perhaps ask the teacher what her expectations are?

:iagree: that the p.s. environment, particularly at that age, is not designed for independent thinking, just following the masses :glare: (In my best Sandra Bullock voice) "Check!" a reason to home school!

 

I remember in 7th grade I got kicked out of pre-algebra b/c every time the teacher said, A=B, I'd ask, "Why?" I wasn't being fresh, I really wanted to know why algorithms worked...I was looking for proofs and I ended up in the counselors office, missing a week of class. Just not the environment for people with inquiring minds. Sad.

[dhudson]

I am sorry that you had to hear that from a teacher but I have to sat that I laughed out loud at what the teacher said. My sarcastic side came out in my head and said, "Don't you just hate it when a child likes a subject so much that they read? It's so very unmanageable.":lol: (I'm NOT trying to be mean, it just hit me funny)

 

What I do find sad is that there aren't more children like that. Do you remember when your kids were 3 or 4 and they asked every question under the sun? "Mom, why is the sky blue? Why does Daddy go to work? Why is the grass green?" They learned so very much and were so very interested in everything! I love that and I think it's so sad that it's trained out of most children.

 

Yeah for your dd. Someday she might ask questions and read ahead of everyone to solve a major problem in the world today. I'd give her an "A".

[elw_miller]

most ps teachers have a tough time coping with independent thinkers, question askers and read aheaders. They prefer homogeneity. It's easier to manage a classroom when every kid is on the same page at the same time and asking the same questions, giving the same responses.

 

I grew up and then taught 8th grade in an academic oasis--many of the teachers *gasp* encouraged independent thought--expected it even. It is a very sad state of affairs if (as it seems) my experience as a student and a teacher is NOT the norm. :( Unfortunately for my kids, we have moved very far away from this outstanding school district (4 states away, in fact).

 

But I've had one teacher who pulled me aside after class to explain why she couldn't call on me all the time. she had to give the other kids a chance to answer.

 

This kind of experience could easily become a reward, too, if the teacher handles it creatively. When I was a junior in high school, I was one of five other students who were the only ones who seemed to answer/ask questions in my English class. We were getting tired of being the only ones to talk, the only ones to explore the topics, and the only ones doing all the thinking for the rest of our classmates. The teacher got tired of it, too. One day, after patiently trying to pull teeth from all the other students, she picked the five of us out of class and told us to go to the library, get a tape recorder, and have our own discussion about the book so she could focus her attentions on the slackers. We had a wonderful, dynamic discussion that day. It was very liberating. :)

 

But, like you said, elementary school students aren't quite to this stage typically. Still sad, though, that the teacher seems unprepared for an engaged and inquisitive mind.

[AuntieM]

Now that's a reply that should make a momma proud! Don't let it worry you in the least!

 

Is your daughter enjoying the class? Does she express her opinions and ask questions politely with respect? If so, she has every right to ask them. That's your tax dollars at work, and that teacher needs to step up to the plate. She was probably just hoping for an easy summer teaching gig. Your precocious, interested daughter is forcing her to be on her toes for every class meeting. If you really feel sorry for her, give her a Starbuck's card so she can caffeine-up before class!

[Loupelou]

BAAA!:D