Couldn't I just use a root-word program instead of Latin?

[Annabel Lee]

I imagine some of you laughing and spitting out your coffee in shock as you read that question. :) Couldn't I accomplish a major goal in teaching Latin by just using a root-word program? I'm thinking of English From the Roots Up or Word Roots. Both of those incorporate some Greek root words as well. What components (other than not being able to actually speak Latin) would I miss in substituting this out?

[Testimony]

I think that you are right.:iagree: I agree with your idea. My goal is to teach them the origins too. I have decided to have my son learn Spanish and just use a roots program too.

 

There is nothing wrong with your ideas. I'm not spilling any coffee either.:D

 

I'm with you on this one.

 

Blessings in your homeschooling journey!

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[Mama2Three]

:lurk5: I'm interested in the responses, too.

[Kate in Arabia]

What components (other than not being able to actually speak Latin) would I miss in substituting this out?

I believe one of the other benefits of studying Latin is that in studying a highly-structured language it helps you understand your own language better.

 

I tutor adults in Arabic, and have had students who, for example, never learned what a noun or a verb was. Well, to study a language from a grammar standpoint (which you have to do with Latin especially because Latin doesn't have an immersion-only environment these days) you also need to have some understanding of your own language grammar. So in my case, I needed to take some time to teach English grammar at the same time I was teaching Arabic grammar, kwim? So it reinforces or strengthens your knowledge of your native language at the same time.

 

We haven't started Latin, but we do study Arabic which is also structure-intensive. Really, I think you would get this benefit to some extent studying any foreign language formally.

[thundersweet]

I think that you are right.:iagree: I agree with your idea. My goal is to teach them the origins too. I have decided to have my son learn Spanish and just use a roots program too.

 

There is nothing wrong with your ideas. I'm not spilling any coffee either.:D

 

I'm with you on this one.

 

Blessings in your homeschooling journey!

 

Sincerely,

Karen

www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

 

This is exactly what we are doing. My dd is taking Spanish lessons from a lady that comes to our home once a week. It gets done that way! lol My dh thinks Spanish is very important and so do I. I do plan to add in a roots program if I can decide which one.

 

Sandy

[Peela]

It really depends what your goals are.

I find that Latin makes my kids- and I- think logically, like nothing else. It really makes you think, and I believe that sort of mental rigour is good for the brain. It also helps you understand English and other languages at a deeper level. It also links in with learning ancient, classical history.

I think if you are not "sold" on learning Latin, from reading TWTM or other peoples' posts, then probably nothing I can say will help you change your mind. Just learning roots is only one corner of the benefits. Honestly, I am not a pure classical homeschooler. We are not as rigorous as many here. But there is something about Latin that just feels very good, and it has so many side benefits, that we keep going with it. For me, the goal is not even mastery of Latin, it's just the learning of it feels good for all of us- we will get as far as we get. Its so logical.

Of course, you can get benefits from just learning roots, but in a way, it has nothing to do with the learning of Latin- its just a side benefit.

And by the way, learning Latin can be fun.

[MIch elle]

Latin is not mandatory! Do what works for your family. :D

[Orthodox6]

Of course you can go that route successfully !

 

Latin does help the learner "to think logically". So does ANY OTHER inflected language -- be it Russian, Spanish, German, modern Greek, and so forth. Yes, I'm forthright with this opinion; however, experience underlies my viewpoint.

 

With regard to grammar, I posted in another thread recently that, according to things I read some years ago, the methodologies for teaching English-language grammar simply were "force-fit" to the Latin model during the days when learning Latin and classical Greek were core elements of an education.

 

(hiding underneath my overturned coffee cup ! . . .)

[Pata]

I'm so glad you posted this! We live overseas, so my dd is already working on a foreign language. She already speaks Spanish and English, we use both in our home, along with slowly introducing Mandarin(it's a tough one!). Although we still have another year before we are scheduled to start Latin. It's beginning to look like overkill. It's good to know that others think that a Roots program is enough!

[dsacco]

I started both kids with English from the Roots up after we got SOOOO bored with Prima Latina. I will continue to work with it with dd and some with ds because they "got" more words from working with it, their vocabulary increased. My son is moving on to Henle Latin I now though for the other benefits of latin (grammar, structure, reading certain things)....and then their memory work will be the standard Catholic Prayers in Latin.

 

So though I was slow to start with it - the benefits on their test results this past year was HUGE when they saw words they didn't immediately know the definitions to.

 

SOrry I'm rambling - off to guitar & voice with DS.

[Jen+4dc]

I learned more English grammar from my high school French teacher (a Norwegian woman who spoke 8 languages) than I ever did from any of my English teachers (even A.P.)! Basically, you cannot learn another language without some knowledge of grammar principles. Do those principles need to be Latin? Well, what are your goals?

 

My goal is kids who can think and speak and write intelligently with a respect for others and a love for God. I want them to be able to function in the global society that they will be living in. Does that require Latin? Not in my opinion. Does it require grammar and knowledge of roots and a foreign language? Yes. FWIW.

 

I plan on doing just what the OP said, teaching my kids roots and learning a foreign language that is still spoken today. I'd love to learn Latin but there's only so many hours in the day......;)

[asta]

Of course you can go that route successfully !

 

Latin does help the learner "to think logically". So does ANY OTHER inflected language -- be it Russian, Spanish, German, modern Greek, and so forth. Yes, I'm forthright with this opinion; however, experience underlies my viewpoint.

 

(hiding underneath my overturned coffee cup ! . . .)

 

I agree. Kiddo is currently studying German rather intensively. He has already completed the Analytical Grammar series, so his grasp of grammar is very good. He will start with a root-word program in the fall.

 

If he is still interested in learning Latin in 11th and 12th grade (which is when I have it scheduled), we'll do it. If not... eh. He'll continue in German and keep learning roots (I feel every person needs them).

 

 

asta

[Testimony]

is I started to think about a few things. Latin is a good foundation if you want to learn the romance languages like Spanish, French, etc. It is good for teaching grammar and logic. However, I started to think about things a few days ago.

 

My younger sister graduated from Havard University cum laude and she studied Spanish, no Latin. She is a medical doctor now. In fact, when she was in residency, her Spanish came in handy because in the ER a family spoke no English and she was able to translate. She said how nice it was to help people in need communicate in a crisis.

 

I studied Latin in school. I did not do so hot on my SATs. I did not do well in college. I graduated from college by the skin of my teeth. Latin is great. I do think things through logically, but I think that my children are better off being able to communicate with others in foreign countries than conjugate verbs.

 

My sons got a foundation of Latin with Latina Christiana. I think that I can move them on.

 

Blessings,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[Orthodox6]

Spanish was my good foundation for learning Latin in college ! :D

 

 

Latin is a good foundation if you want to learn the romance languages like Spanish, French, etc.

[charlotteb]

I imagine some of you laughing and spitting out your coffee in shock as you read that question. :) Couldn't I accomplish a major goal in teaching Latin by just using a root-word program? I'm thinking of English From the Roots Up or Word Roots. Both of those incorporate some Greek root words as well. What components (other than not being able to actually speak Latin) would I miss in substituting this out?

 

We are only going to do "English from the Roots Up". We just don't have time for a seperate, intense Latin program. Both of my children have said they want to learn non-Latin derived languages in high school. (DS wants to do Japanese and DD wants to do Swahili).

[rafiki]

.

[lovemykids]

I imagine some of you laughing and spitting out your coffee in shock as you read that question. :)

 

 

LOL :lol:! that's why I love this forum, I always get a good laugh here and there.

 

What program are you planning on using?

[Matryoshka]

Latin does help the learner "to think logically". So does ANY OTHER inflected language -- be it Russian, Spanish, German, modern Greek, and so forth. Yes, I'm forthright with this opinion; however, experience underlies my viewpoint.

 

:iagree: The other benefit of Latin is the logical thinking and grammar - but any other inflected language will do the same. We're learning German (among other languages) and as far as Latin goes, roots is all I'm planning on.

[Jami]

I guess it depends on your goals. My goals for Latin go far beyond vocabulary development and I have determined that Latin is the best way to reach those goals. I want my kids to have a classical education and I can't imagine a classical education not including the classical languages. I want the mental gymnastics, the cultural familiarity, the necessity of Logical thought, the basis of other romance languages. I want it all and Latin is the best way to get there imo.

 

:iagree:

[Haiku]

I go back and forth about Latin. I want to do Latin because I think it would be fun, but both my kids are more interested in modern languages: my daughter wants to learn Spanish so she can go to South America to do humanitarian work and my son wants to learn one of the indigenous languages of his birth country. Sometimes I am sure we will start Latin in 5th grade; sometimes I'm sure we will start in in 7th. Sometimes I don't know.

 

I did see that Vocabulary from Classical Roots, which SWB recommends starting in 7th grade, now has programs for 4th, 5th, and 6th grades. Right now I am leaning toward focusing on Spanish through 6th grade, adding in VfCR in 4th grade, and possibly starting Latin in 7th grade. I think it will depend on how in-depth we are in Spanish and whether I feel that many of the "learn-Latin" goals are being accomplished in other ways. Reading original Latin texts in Latin would never be my goal for my kids' study of Latin, even though I have read several papers that state that that's the only reason to pursue Latin. I wholeheartedly disagree with that.

 

Tar

[abbeyej]

*If* that's your only goal in teaching Latin, then yes, you could simply study word roots and improve your child's understanding of English vocabulary.

 

But then you'd have to do something else for the deep understanding of English grammar that Latin would impart. Studying another inflected language (like Russian or Finnish) would do that part for you.

 

You could study logical relationships with an inflected language (as above), or with computer programming.

 

Of course, you'd miss out on being able to study the Classics as they were written (and if you've ever compared a great piece of literature in its original language and in a translation, you'll see that even the best translations lose something in the process)...

 

But if vocabulary is your primary focus of learning Latin, then a roots program would be a reasonable choice. Perhaps even a more efficient one.

 

For my kids, that's only a (relatively small) part of why we study Latin.

[katilac]

Also, keep in mind that learning Latin doesn't mean my kids are going to skip a modern language. So many people seem to be saying that they are choosing [your choice of modern language] instead of Latin. It just isn't like that for us. My kids will learn a modern language or two in addition to Latin and Greek. The sequence will depend on their interests to a degree but nothing says they can't learn more than one language. In many countries kids learn 2 or 3 languages just to start. Latin is our starting place and then we will go out from there.

 

What she said.

[Kim in SouthGa]

Hmmm, this is a very interesting topic. My 13 ds has had two years of Latin, and will have two more (this week I am leaning towards Henle;)), and then I plan to move him to Koine Greek. I don't even let my kids know that this could count as their foreign language-I look at it more as building blocks. Two are studying Spanish and my 10dd just started studying French. It is all done rather informally (modern languages) with computer & DS games & audio cds listened to while they clean their rooms. They love it. My 10dd told me she wanted to know Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Spanish, and French by the time she graduated! We will start a formal study of modern languages in 9th- I figure if they are exposed to it as much as possible, it has got to make high school language study easier!

 

As far as time goes, I think if you wait to start Latin a little later, like say 5th or 6th grade, they can pretty much do it by themselves. At least that has been our experience.

[momto2Cs]

I imagine some of you laughing and spitting out your coffee in shock as you read that question. :) Couldn't I accomplish a major goal in teaching Latin by just using a root-word program? I'm thinking of English From the Roots Up or Word Roots. Both of those incorporate some Greek root words as well. What components (other than not being able to actually speak Latin) would I miss in substituting this out?

 

:iagree:

 

I'm planning on introducing my kids to English From The Roots Up this year (fall). Both dh and I agree it will give the kids a good understanding of how words work and how to figure out many words they come across.

 

We may do actual Latin at some point in the future, but for now we'll work with word meanings and they'll keep taking Spanish lessons!

[hmschooling]

I had the same thought, but wanted the benefit of learning a language. There are so many benefits- including the improvement in English. So, we do English From the Roots Up and started Spanish. My kids are young so we are using The Complete Book Of Started Spanish for my K'er and some Spanish music cd's. I'm using "The Fun Spanish" and The Complete Book of Spanish, music cd's, and Spanish phonogram cards with my rising 3rd grader. I'm also incorporating some free online websites with actual lessons with native speakers, non-native speakers, fun videos, graphics, etc. to make it more fun. It's cheap too! If you are interested in those sites, just PM me. I personally like your idea.

 

ETA: We will be doing Latin later though...maybe in the Jr. High or middle school years and on through high school.

[mamamoon]

i look at this the way i view dance. i teach middle eastern dance, and the students i have that have had ballet as a child find it much easier to pick up choreography and "keep the beat" the people that have had no ballet training, just can not hear the rhythm a lot of the time.

[linders]

We are doing just what you are thinking - English From the Roots Up for Latin/Greek roots and learning Spanish as our foreign language. I can't see doing two foreign languages for my DSs, and a living language with the oral component just makes more sense for us.

 

I still spit my coffee - because I also cringe when I tell WTMers my plan!

[thundersweet]

On the heels of the Latin roots thread from yesterday, just curious what programs are available. Any particular programs especially good for a soon to be 3rd grader? I do already have EFTRU but wonder what else is available.

 

Thanks,

Sandy

[Haiku]

I have been looking at Vocabulary from Classical Roots, which SWB recommends starting in 7th grade. They now have a program for 4th, 5th, and 6th graders that looks good.

 

Tara

[sagira]

Spanish was my good foundation for learning Latin in college ! :D

 

I think this will be the case with ds and I. I learned both French and Spanish in school, and my native language (Papiamento) has definite Romance language roots in it as well. That said, I also studied Dutch for 12 years, which demanded rigor and discipline.

 

I'm teaching ds Spanish and believe this will lay down a good foundation for Latin later on. Since I believe Latin will be more relevant to him than Dutch (just a couple of countries, all Dutch people I know speak other languages), I think we will see how that goes. I believe it will help him no matter what.

 

Despite me speaking my native language to him from birth, he claims not to know how to speak it (sigh). However, he does understand almost everything. My hope is that by merely exposing him to another language it will be beneficial in many ways, including in what Susan says, "it prevents one from developing arrogance."

 

Not to highjack the thread, but the reverse could also be true: why would a study of roots be necessary when one is studying Latin?

[mom31257]

I'm going to do roots as well. My dd might get a chance to do Latin in a co-op next year that it looks like I'm going to be directing. I have no experience at all with Latin, and the co-op will take enough of my time. If she gets to do it there, I'll be very happy. If not, we will look at it for high school for her, and introducing it at some point with my ds, but not sure when.

[charmama4]

I read a post about just learning Latin and Greek roots instead of learning the entire language. That made sense to me. I guess I'm looking for a curricula that would enable this. I have tried Vocab. from Classical Roots earlier in the year then changed to Worldly Wise when the former seemed too "classroom" oriented. However, my mind could be changed if persuaded.:bigear:

 

So fellow home education teachers, sell me on your favorite vocabulary curriculum. Could you please tell me your reasons and the pros and cons of the program. Thanks in advance and have beautiful day.

[birchbark]

Great thread! I was planning on doing this very thing (Spanish + EFTRU) and wondering how it would work. I didn't realize so many others are doing it too!

 

I am not against taking up Latin in later grades if the kiddoes are interested, but until then I'd like to put our time into other things.

[mom31257]

http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=477200&event=CF

 

This is a program that can be used with all ages K-12. It is actually the English form of Greek and Latin roots. There is a weekly lesson plan with review and game suggestions. The roots are listed alphabetically and have asterisks beside roots that are more appropriate with younger elementary. I'm going to have my older dd do about 4 a week, including a couple with asterisks and have her younger brother do those roots.

[Annabel Lee]

but I guess I should've known. I suppose I should share some more of my thoughts than I did in my OP. I started my kiddos (now almost 6 and 8) in Spanish at ages 3 and 1. We've done it off and on very informally since. It's an easy language for me after living in El Paso and learning how to say all the phonetic sounds of the language. None of us are fluent in it past colors, numbers, grocery words, farm words, and small talk. I like the idea of them learning a living language while they're young and they can absorb it easily. "They" say kids pick up languages more easily when they're young. The only reason I'd do a roots program in lieu of Latin would be to focus on Spanish, and that would be for now... jr. high and hs could still include Latin (I'm not against it or ruling it out altogether).

 

My older son is going into 3rd in the fall, so I'm thinking if we're going to get serious with either Latin or Spanish, I need to decide. I honestly didn't know what the other benefits of learning Latin are, which is why I asked. I skimmed that chapter in TWTM. :D I really like alot of the other reasons some of you stated for learning Latin, which has me considering it now. Could I teach Latin and Spanish simultaneously w/o confusing my kids? If I delay Spanish for the sake of learning Latin 1st, will it be harder for them to learn later? I already know one answer to that question will be that it will be easier to learn since Spanish comes from Latin... but still, what about what "They" say about kids learning languages easier the younger they are?

[Matryoshka]

My older son is going into 3rd in the fall, so I'm thinking if we're going to get serious with either Latin or Spanish, I need to decide. I honestly didn't know what the other benefits of learning Latin are, which is why I asked. I skimmed that chapter in TWTM. :D I really like alot of the other reasons some of you stated for learning Latin, which has me considering it now. Could I teach Latin and Spanish simultaneously w/o confusing my kids? If I delay Spanish for the sake of learning Latin 1st, will it be harder for them to learn later? I already know one answer to that question will be that it will be easier to learn since Spanish comes from Latin... but still, what about what "They" say about kids learning languages easier the younger they are?

 

There is a window for spoken languages that does close if not learned early - you can learn them later, but most people will not get the accent and fluency of speaking/understanding. Of course, none of that is a problem for Latin. The logical element of Latin can easily be learned in, well, the Logic stage - or later. And you would have still gotten all the roots down with Spanish.

 

I also don't think it's any problem to be studying two languages. We've been studying two for years and are now adding a third(!). Okay, I'm insane. We're doing Spanish (Latin-based), German (inflected) and now dabbling in Mandarin Chinese (tonal and completely different in just about every other way). Fun!

 

Spanish and Latin together would actually be much less of a stretch - so much of the vocabulary overlaps, many verb conjugations are similar, and you only really have to worry about accent and listening comprehension in one of them.

 

I'm going to be using MCT's Vocab program next year, which introduces Latin roots with both the English and Spanish cognates simultaneously.

[KarenNC]

On the heels of the Latin roots thread from yesterday, just curious what programs are available. Any particular programs especially good for a soon to be 3rd grader? I do already have EFTRU but wonder what else is available.

 

Thanks,

Sandy

 

My 3rd grader is doing Vocabulary Vine. She is a very fluent reader, however, so that may affect whether it's appropriate. It's recommended to start in 4th grade.

 

For language, we are doing French at the moment, plan to add Latin later on.

[KarenNC]

Could I teach Latin and Spanish simultaneously w/o confusing my kids? If I delay Spanish for the sake of learning Latin 1st, will it be harder for them to learn later?

 

IMO (and I am far from an expert in language acquisition), I wouldn't think one would want to *introduce* Latin and a Romance language simultaneously. Being so similar, I think it would make it more difficult to keep straight which word/form/etc goes with which language. I think it would be easier if the two were very different (say Spanish and Japanese).

 

Again, IMO and drawing on things I read a good while ago, learning one foreign language (*any* foreign language) makes learning a second one (or a third, etc) easier. For people who speak 3 or more languages, I don't recall seeing anything that says that they had to learn all of them simultaneously.

 

Hopefully someone else will have a better idea of what "they" say:D.

[sarahli]

On the heels of the Latin roots thread from yesterday, just curious what programs are available. Any particular programs especially good for a soon to be 3rd grader? I do already have EFTRU but wonder what else is available.

 

Thanks,

Sandy

 

Michael Clay Thompson has 6 years worth of vocabulary texts, starting with grade 3-4. The samples look excellent.

http://www.rfwp.com/mct.php