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What's with the ads?

#101 Loolamay

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 12:02 PM

Challenge is 1250 and the price is standard nationwide, I believe. But that doesn't include materials, but you'd have to buy them anyway wherever you went.

In "average America" parochial school is about 7000.00 for 7-12th grade. That DOES include textbooks but not fees, uniforms. So, CC is about 1/6 the cost of parochial school.

However, it's definitely Papa Murphys. You have to teach, you have to grade, you have to grade all papers and tests. If the child doesn't understand, you have to hire a tutor, they can't email their "tutor" mid week.

So comparing CC and parochial school doesn't make sense anyway. :) That's like comparing Papa murphys (a raw freaking pizza) with your local Italian grandpa's pizza place. ...two different things.

But as I said able McDonalds, some people love it. Some people also love Papa Murphys. My husband was so incredulous he actually went in and asked if his wife was correct and do they indeed sell only raw pizza??? I myself tried it once and it flopped all over the place and almost fell on the floor trying to transfer it to my baking stone. I don't get it!!!

 

Agreed that the comparison to parochial school is uneven. CC's only 1/6 the cost of a typical parochial school if you don't count that the upper level CC programs meet one day a week and the rest is at home and most parochial schools meet 5 days a week (so both parents could work if they needed to).  Extrapolate that CC cost out to five days a week and Ay chihuahua!



#102 Calming Tea

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 01:02 PM

I'm wondering if people experiencing zealous cc members and joining for the social network are from small homeschooling communities?

In my county (last I heard several years ago) we have about 9,000 kids with homeschool affidavits on file and no real regulation, so we have every kind of homeschooler you ever heard of around here.  Did cc find smaller communities and manage to market (aptly described as playing on insecurities) to enough of them so they had critical mass and became the norm?  I agree that all marketing is usually playing on insecurities and isn't something unique to cc. It's so weird to me that people would think they need to literally buy into that for community. 

Also, is it just me or do conservative evangelical women (I am one, so don't assume I'm prejudice against them) tend to like MLM schemes more than most people?  Between the jewelry, make up, purse and kitchen versions of MLM schemes, I run into them all the time at churches and in the homeschooling community.  I just don't get it.  Why would anyone limit themselves to what they can get at these small venues when the whole world of big box stores (Walmart, Target), amazon.com, and every mall in America exists?  I want to pick and choose from a world of options, not just what one company is peddling. 

You'll know within the SECOND time of meeting someone who's in an MLM....(whether it's purses, jewelry, pampered chef or CC)...because until you make it clear that you are NOT interested, they'll keep trying to "slyly" sell you stuff.  Send you notices on Facebook, add you to their mailing list, Invite you to their parties..

 

Even when I was dead broke I refuse to do that to my friends and acquaintances.  Half the time people buy something because they feel bad for you.  When we were struggling, I cleaned houses to afford piano.  They got a clean house, I got money for piano.  No one is pressured.  LOL

 

My hubby says, I should just keep 10.00 bills in my wallet, and when a friend or acquaintance starts with the MLM stuff, just get out the 10.00 and say, "...here this is for you."  I know his sentiment is a little unkind, but it's also a little unkind to turn every friendship and acquaintance you have into a sales situation.


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#103 Calming Tea

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 01:12 PM

Agreed that the comparison to parochial school is uneven. CC's only 1/6 the cost of a typical parochial school if you don't count that the upper level CC programs meet one day a week and the rest is at home and most parochial schools meet 5 days a week (so both parents could work if they needed to).  Extrapolate that CC cost out to five days a week and Ay chihuahua!

goooood poinnnnttt!  I hadn't thought of it on a per - day basis.  Per day, CC does cost the same as a parochial school.  Bummer.  And you get moms who may or may not actually be experts rather than trained experience teachers expected to follow up with your student. 

 

I have some friends who recently started CC two years ago, split (of course), started a new campus and are both directors of Foundations and Challenge at their new campus.  The kids who go to their campus, are probably very lucky, for now, as these two are the kind who would take the time to absolutely master the material, and the dad is a VA Tech grad who is great at math anyway, and they probably studied the Latin for a few years alongside of/ahead of the kids.  

 

But ...the campus will split and some unlucky kids will get the newbies at the new campus next year, and the likelihood of them being as awesome as the first two directors they had is about nil, and so goes the story. 


Edited by Calming Tea, 28 June 2017 - 01:13 PM.

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#104 happycc

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 01:50 PM

Is so tempting when you need a break lol

But then not as tempting because I can take a break just by hanging out with all of you online. 

Nah....I'll save my money and talk to you guys on the forum. TWTM cult LOL


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#105 Loolamay

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 01:57 PM

You'll know within the SECOND time of meeting someone who's in an MLM....(whether it's purses, jewelry, pampered chef or CC)...because until you make it clear that you are NOT interested, they'll keep trying to "slyly" sell you stuff. Send you notices on Facebook, add you to their mailing list, Invite you to their parties..

Even when I was dead broke I refuse to do that to my friends and acquaintances. Half the time people buy something because they feel bad for you. When we were struggling, I cleaned houses to afford piano. They got a clean house, I got money for piano. No one is pressured. LOL

My hubby says, I should just keep 10.00 bills in my wallet, and when a friend or acquaintance starts with the MLM stuff, just get out the 10.00 and say, "...here this is for you." I know his sentiment is a little unkind, but it's also a little unkind to turn every friendship and acquaintance you have into a sales situation.

Ya, it's so hard to explain this to people who want to believe the hype, but CC is all kinds of trouble. I know there are "good campuses" We had one. HAD being operative, and it wasn't inexperienced teachers that made us leave. It was corporate's controlling behavior. I'm sure some of you have seen me all over the forums trying to tell my story. I get some hate for it, because the CC true believers are so... faithful. But there's nothing magical about CC just like there's nothing magical about Plexus or Rodan and Fields or whatever... Only reason I keep talking about it is because I keep hearing horror stories from new angles. But then the pushback comes and I feel like singing that Andre3000 song "Hey Ya" - you know the one from years ago that goes "Shake it like a Polaroid picture!" The song is about whether or not romantic love can last - a heavy subject - but the sound is all peppy and at one point Andre says, "Y'all don't wanna hear me; you just wanna dance." I think of that line all. the. time.

Edited by AprilDianne, 28 June 2017 - 01:59 PM.

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#106 nixpix5

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 02:37 PM

Ya, it's so hard to explain this to people who want to believe the hype, but CC is all kinds of trouble. I know there are "good campuses" We had one. HAD being operative, and it wasn't inexperienced teachers that made us leave. It was corporate's controlling behavior. I'm sure some of you have seen me all over the forums trying to tell my story. I get some hate for it, because the CC true believers are so... faithful. But there's nothing magical about CC just like there's nothing magical about Plexus or Rodan and Fields or whatever... Only reason I keep talking about it is because I keep hearing horror stories from new angles. But then the pushback comes and I feel like singing that Andre3000 song "Hey Ya" - you know the one from years ago that goes "Shake it like a Polaroid picture!" The song is about whether or not romantic love can last - a heavy subject - but the sound is all peppy and at one point Andre says, "Y'all don't wanna hear me; you just wanna dance." I think of that line all. the. time.


I think telling your story is so important because while one story does not guarantee others will experience it, many MANY stories adds more weight by increasing your sample size N value.

We were all set to jump on board a group in the fall and then I really started investigating. Once it received the foundations "curriculum" and looked at it I bailed. Too expensive just for the social group we were going to use it for and the curriculum was silly to me. I can sit at home and make my kids memorize random facts if I am so inclined to do so. I don't need to pay a lot of money for it.

Thank you, by the way, for that lovely song now looping through my head ;)
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#107 Margaret in CO

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 07:22 PM

I got the high pressure tactics from the lady down valley, under the lady in Denver. She was NOT amused when I pointed out that she had FAR less education that I, nor had been hsing for over 20 years. Um, WHY would I pay such exorbitant amounts for that? Plus, she had not a CLUE what was required for a selective engineering school. Honey, taking Alg I just to do it the "CC" way in 9th grade isn't going to cut it. When I asked her just how far in math SHE'D had gotten, she changed the subject. 

 

I'm firmly in the "CC is a cult" camp. 


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#108 G5052

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 01:37 PM

Agreed. We have one 20 miles away here but the flow of traffic makes it so that I can't do it (1.5 hour commute) so we had to explore other options.

I think we will see more and more of these 2-3 day schools pop up.

 

Yes, I see such a need for them in our area. Reportedly the local one has a waiting list for about 3/4 of their grades. It's a bridge program for those who don't want private school for whatever reason and more time at home.

 

Ours is all of 10 minutes away. I actually interviewed with them several years ago, and they REALLY wanted to hire me. I think that I would have been happy there. 

 

At the time, the schedule didn't work for us, but I wanted to investigate options because DH was making more noise about retiring early.  A good friend of mine was teaching there at the time and had given me a good breakdown of the positives and negatives.



#109 EmilyGF

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 01:58 PM

My sister (who has been a director and involved with CC for three years or so) said someone compared CC to AOL - a product that is appealing and exciting for a short time because it fills a need, not because it is excellent. She thinks that a better model will develop in the coming years and do to CC what innovation did to AOL. She has many frustrations with everything about CC, but it has filled a need she had for the last few years. 

 

Emily


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#110 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 05:31 PM

You'll know within the SECOND time of meeting someone who's in an MLM....(whether it's purses, jewelry, pampered chef or CC)...because until you make it clear that you are NOT interested, they'll keep trying to "slyly" sell you stuff.  Send you notices on Facebook, add you to their mailing list, Invite you to their parties..

 

Even when I was dead broke I refuse to do that to my friends and acquaintances.  Half the time people buy something because they feel bad for you.  When we were struggling, I cleaned houses to afford piano.  They got a clean house, I got money for piano.  No one is pressured.  LOL

 

My hubby says, I should just keep 10.00 bills in my wallet, and when a friend or acquaintance starts with the MLM stuff, just get out the 10.00 and say, "...here this is for you."  I know his sentiment is a little unkind, but it's also a little unkind to turn every friendship and acquaintance you have into a sales situation.

 

Yeah actually this kinda hurts my feelings when people do this! I meet someone and think we hit it off and then they basically just try to sell me stuff!!!  :confused1:


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#111 nixpix5

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 07:04 PM

Yeah actually this kinda hurts my feelings when people do this! I meet someone and think we hit it off and then they basically just try to sell me stuff!!! :confused1:


I had this happen a few months ago. I met, who I thought was a really sweet homeschool mom at a co-op orientation. We had a great conversation and she invited me to get a coffee the following week and chat curriculum. Sounded fun! We spent 2 hours chatting and I kept thinking "wow, I have so much in common with this mom" and then it came...she gave me the pitch. I left feeling used and violated. The worst part, when I said "no thank you" that was the end of our interactions. I run into her and she smiles politely but that is it. Another mom who I have become good friends with had the exact same interaction with her. It is just really confusing. I think I dislike it because you never know where you truly stand with someone. It reminds me of those old looney toon episodes where characters are stranded on an island and start seeing each other as turkey legs or steaks. Seriously...that is what it feels like. I run screaming from anyone who sells anything in a high pressure way.
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#112 Calming Tea

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 07:14 PM

 It reminds me of those old looney toon episodes where characters are stranded on an island and start seeing each other as turkey legs or steaks. 

hahaha so true 


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#113 yvonne

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:15 PM

My sister (who has been a director and involved with CC for three years or so) said someone compared CC to AOL - a product that is appealing and exciting for a short time because it fills a need, not because it is excellent. She thinks that a better model will develop in the coming years and do to CC what innovation did to AOL. She has many frustrations with everything about CC, but it has filled a need she had for the last few years. 

 

Emily

 

:iagree: :iagree:

 

I think when CC came out, it met a real need/desire for a "community" for many, both students and moms.  Better models are already starting to sprout up. MP's Cottage Schools, CAP's Schole communities, etc., may meet the community desire but also have better academics and better instructors.

 

When we did Foundations and Essentials, my boys LOVED the peer aspect. It was definitely something we did not get on our own at home nor in other peer activities like park days.  I'm an introvert, so socializing w/ other moms wasn't a driving factor for me, but it is for many more extroverted moms.

In hindsight, I see some real advantages to group learning, for SOME subjects and assuming the children in the group are at the same level, interested in the same subject matter. I would not dumb down just for social interaction.  We used CC purely as a supplement, an extracurricular.  It was something fun for the kids to do one day a week.

 

CC corporate made it easy to start a campus. They provided the infrastructure & the PR. It was plug-and-play simple. 

I think people try it and love it at the beginning, but then find that it's not an academic route they want to follow. They grow disenchanted with it as they discover that the corporate restrictions on it (can't hire the best tutors, tutors have to teach all subjects for their level even if they have no interest in one or two, tutors have to have kids in the program so every campus loses its best/most experienced tutors right when they have the most time and experience to tutor!...)   The CC restrictions benefit corporate's bottom line, but they hobble the local communities. At some point, the benefits of ease of set-up and ready-made PR will be outweighed by weak academics, lock-step academics, and inability to bring in the best teachers. I think it's reaching this point and, for this reason, other types of communities are popping up. It remains to be seen how successful those will be.


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#114 Another Lynn

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 05:52 AM

Yvonne, everything you said exactly matches my experience/observations too.  


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#115 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 09:52 AM

??? I think those other communities (cottage schools/university model schools) existed long before CC.
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#116 yvonne

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 10:03 AM

Those models for education existed long before CC; the communities I mentioned (MP, CAP) did not.

 

There's a difference in feel/philosophy between a "school" and a "community."  Perhaps the biggest is the involvement of parents and families in a "community" vs the drop-them-at-the-door approach of a typical university model or brick & mortar school. 

 

It probably all looks the same from the outside, if one has never been involved with a small group of families with the same desires/goals whose children enjoy learning together.

 

 


Edited by yvonne, 03 July 2017 - 10:27 AM.


#117 EmilyGF

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 10:46 AM

??? I think those other communities (cottage schools/university model schools) existed long before CC.

CC is open and go and maintains a list of people interested in your area. It provides something for people to rally around. It provides an open and go curriculum with very few decisions to make.

Her'es what happened for my sister: 

 

She moved to a new area with young kids where she knew no one and went to a church, not near her house, where no one homeschooled and she experienced some level of culture shock.

 

Within a matter of weeks she was able to find people interested in CC, get "trained", get materials, and start a "community." She had very little planning to do (she could even have bought prepared craft kits). I think the hardest part for her was figuring out the insurance rider for the location they met at. It was very much plug and play with a group already rounded up (she contacted people who had expressed interest but not been willing to be directors and did no other recruiting).

 

These new national networks (MP, Schole, Charlotte Mason in Community) are providing better materials, more flexibility, and new rallying points. I think that's a good thing that wasn't addressed before. I don't think they've figured out the perfect formula yet, but I'm excited by all the work that is being done. I do think the vast majority of people homeschool better with some level of accountability (man, I loved being required to do exams for the Alveary this year) and I'm glad there are better options springing up to offer that at some level or another in ways that are easy to implement.

 

Emily


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#118 yvonne

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:40 AM

CC is open and go

 

<snip bec I don't know how to do multi-quotes even after all these years!>

 

These new national networks (MP, Schole, Charlotte Mason in Community) are providing better materials, more flexibility, and new rallying points. I think that's a good thing that wasn't addressed before. I don't think they've figured out the perfect formula yet, but I'm excited by all the work that is being done.

 

Yes! Me, too!  As CC directors & parents age out of CC bec their kids have graduated high school, I think we'll see some of the really dedicated, passionate ones look to help new home schoolers create the sort of communities they wish they'd had when their kids were young. When your kids are young, you just do not have much time to spend beyond doing what you specifically need to do that day or that week or that year. It isn't until your children get older and go off to college or start taking some outside high school courses that you have time to really look back at the big picture & think about what you'd do differently. (At least that was my experience.) The possibilities are exciting! 

 

i don't think I'd say the majority of home schoolers need outside accountability. It can be nice for some of us, though.

There are tons of options out there for home schoolers..... live online classes, async online classes, community college classes, university classes, live local classes, part time at the local public school (in some states), local workshops put on by different hobby/professional groups,....   Each family has their own, specific needs/goals/desires. The great thing about home schooling is that each family can pick and choose from all the available options to meet their own particular needs. Some families successfully home school their children without using any of those outside resources at all.  I don't think there is any one model that could be held up as the best single solution.
 


Edited by yvonne, 03 July 2017 - 11:48 AM.


#119 Tibbie Dunbar

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 12:48 PM

Yvonne, I understand what you're saying, but your post is another reminder that old schoolers aren't going to have anyone asking us how we did it - not when the answer is that we had no coops and emphatically did not want them (especially for elementary).

I really wonder whether traditional hs'ing will be popular, or even known, in the future. I don't care as much as I used to, but I do still worry about the special needs students and other outliers who will always need one one on tutoring and extreme flexibility. Will their parents recognize the hs'ing option, and be able to find resources and support in the age of CC, UMS, Schole groups, Tapestry coops, et cetera?

Edited by Tibbie Dunbar, 03 July 2017 - 12:51 PM.

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#120 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:06 PM

Yes! Me, too! As CC directors & parents age out of CC bec their kids have graduated high school, I think we'll see some of the really dedicated, passionate ones look to help new home schoolers create the sort of communities they wish they'd had when their kids were young. When your kids are young, you just do not have much time to spend beyond doing what you specifically need to do that day or that week or that year. It isn't until your children get older and go off to college or start taking some outside high school courses that you have time to really look back at the big picture & think about what you'd do differently. (At least that was my experience.) The possibilities are exciting! ..

Or get to have multiple re-dos with younger siblings.:)

i don't think I'd say the majority of home schoolers need outside accountability. It can be nice for some of us, though.

There are tons of options out there for home schoolers..... live online classes, async online classes, community college classes, university classes, live local classes, part time at the local public school (in some states), local workshops put on by different hobby/professional groups,.... Each family has their own, specific needs/goals/desires. The great thing about home schooling is that each family can pick and choose from all the available options to meet their own particular needs. Some families successfully home school their children without using any of those outside resources at all. I don't think there is any one model that could be held up as the best single solution.

I agree. I absolutely would resent outside accountability. We move a lot but I have refused to move to places with high regulations specifically bc I want to do things my way. It is why I homeschool. I fully understand and appreciate that others like outsourcing, but I equally want parents who desire to do it on their own to be affirmed that they can succeed without outsourcing and colleges will accept their kids without outsourced classes.

Edited by 8FillTheHeart, 03 July 2017 - 01:16 PM.

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#121 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:12 PM

Yvonne, I understand what you're saying, but your post is another reminder that old schoolers aren't going to have anyone asking us how we did it - not when the answer is that we had no coops and emphatically did not want them (especially for elementary).

I really wonder whether traditional hs'ing will be popular, or even known, in the future. I don't care as much as I used to, but I do still worry about the special needs students and other outliers who will always need one one on tutoring and extreme flexibility. Will their parents recognize the hs'ing option, and be able to find resources and support in the age of CC, UMS, Schole groups, Tapestry coops, et cetera?

I was pecking on my phone when you posted. I agree. I do worry about it bc I am still in the thick of it since I still have a young child. I feel like I have witnessed homeschooling do a complete flip since I started. I agree that homeschooling at home might become obsolete in the future.
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#122 Lotsoflittleducklings

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:20 PM

Yvonne, I understand what you're saying, but your post is another reminder that old schoolers aren't going to have anyone asking us how we did it - not when the answer is that we had no coops and emphatically did not want them (especially for elementary).

I really wonder whether traditional hs'ing will be popular, or even known, in the future. I don't care as much as I used to, but I do still worry about the special needs students and other outliers who will always need one one on tutoring and extreme flexibility. Will their parents recognize the hs'ing option, and be able to find resources and support in the age of CC, UMS, Schole groups, Tapestry coops, et cetera?

 

Hmmm... as a CC'er (Foundations level only, to this point), I definitely consider myself a "traditional" homeschooler.  Perhaps even more so than the generation before me (at my church) who built a large and thriving co-op of their own. 

 

CC is (currently) my "spine" for memory work, plus half-a-day with like-minded homeschooling families.

 

Otherwise, I think my home probably looks a lot like yours?  I do my own history, language arts, math, foreign languages, science.... and all of them are resources I've chosen myself -- not boxed -- to tailor to my kids' needs, including one child with learning challenges.  

 

 

I do agree that many support/community options are available today, and that many of them look very different from "old school" homeschooling.   But in light of this being a CC thread, I thought I'd give a little perspective on what CC, specifically, is like.  My experience is limited to Foundations so far, but if we were to continue with CC beyond that, I'd only do it on the condition that I maintain control over their schooling and can adapt the program to meet each of my kids' needs.  


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#123 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:25 PM

Hmmm... as a CC'er (Foundations level only, to this point), I definitely consider myself a "traditional" homeschooler. Perhaps even more so than the generation before me (at my church) who built a large and thriving co-op of their own.

CC is (currently) my "spine" for memory work, plus half-a-day with like-minded homeschooling families.

Otherwise, I think my home probably looks a lot like yours? I do my own history, language arts, math, foreign languages, science.... and all of them are resources I've chosen myself -- not boxed -- to tailor to my kids' needs, including one child with learning challenges.


I do agree that many support/community options are available today, and that many of them look very different from "old school" homeschooling. But in light of this being a CC thread, I thought I'd give a little perspective on what CC, specifically, is like. My experience is limited to Foundations so far, but if we were to continue with CC beyond that, I'd only do it on the condition that I maintain control over their schooling and can adapt the program to meet each of my kids' needs.

I am not sure how that would work when they are inflexible about progression in math, etc. Would you have/pay for a child who did alg at age 10 (to) sit in an alg class in 9th grade? Or a student in Latin 4 in Latin 1? Or ready for chem/physics in physical science?

Edited by 8FillTheHeart, 03 July 2017 - 03:51 PM.


#124 yvonne

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:27 PM

Yvonne, I understand what you're saying, but your post is another reminder that old schoolers aren't going to have anyone asking us how we did it - not when the answer is that we had no coops and emphatically did not want them (especially for elementary).

I really wonder whether traditional hs'ing will be popular, or even known, in the future. I don't care as much as I used to, but I do still worry about the special needs students and other outliers who will always need one one on tutoring and extreme flexibility. Will their parents recognize the hs'ing option, and be able to find resources and support in the age of CC, UMS, Schole groups, Tapestry coops,etc?l

 

I don't know if that's the case, though, Tibbie. Don't you think there will always be a variety of home schoolers out there who choose different paths? 

 

People who home school seem to be a very eclectic bunch. The range of approaches to home schooling is hugely varied.  As people home school over they years, they try different things. They find from experience that there are things they like and don't like, things they wish they'd done differently, things they'd love to try, things they could have done better, things they shouldn't have wasted their time on, etc.  The desire to do things better/differently inevitably drives the creation of new options. The "new" stuff may or may not pan out; we don't know until it's been used for a while.

 

I think there _will_ always be home schoolers who do things completely on their own (ie, no outside classes at all) and they _will_ look to those who have btdt for encouragement and advice. 

 

There will also be home schoolers who feel that there's something missing and who look for it in the available options. Sometimes those options can provide it. Sometimes the option does not provide it, and the parent tries something else that seems like a closer match or s/he tries to create the missing piece. Sometimes what the parent creates appeals to other, like-minded parents and it gathers momentum.  The new option fills a certain need that certain families are looking for, like CC does/did.

 

We home schoolers today owe a lot to the home schoolers who started out. However, I don't think that whatever might be considered the way "old schoolers" did it is necessarily _better_ simply because it's the "old" way of doing it, just as I don't consider the latest options (CC, CAP's Schole, MP's cottage schools, etc) to be _better_ simply because they're newer. Things seem to move like a pendulum.... Maybe home schooling is the same... Maybe it will always swing slowly back and forth between the two extremes of completely independent (no outside classes at all) and completely outsourced (all online/local classes.) 

 

I don't know. Everyone has to find their own way. I do know that nobody, "old schooler" or home schoolers using more recent options can say that their way is THE best or THE only way.

 

(ETA fixed formatting. Don't know why my paragraph breaks are always messed up!)


Edited by yvonne, 03 July 2017 - 01:28 PM.

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#125 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:31 PM

Yvonne, I don't know that I have met anyone IRL in the past 4 yrs who has homeschooled completely at home. We just moved again, so it will be interesting to see the dynamic here.

Edited by 8FillTheHeart, 03 July 2017 - 01:32 PM.


#126 Tibbie Dunbar

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:35 PM

It's not that we are concerned about superiority of our methods or conformity of newbies to our methods - it's been a LONG time since I ever thought I had all the answers for everybody - the concern is about whether a rather important niche in hs'ing is at risk of extinction.
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#127 Tibbie Dunbar

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:37 PM

(Sorry about the lack of quotes and all the typos - desktop computer gave up the ghost and I can't operate this iPad as well! LOL)
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#128 yvonne

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:42 PM

It's not that we are concerned about superiority of our methods or conformity of newbies to our methods - it's been a LONG time since I ever thought I had all the answers for everybody - the concern is about whether a rather important niche in hs'ing is at risk of extinction.

 

I do get & agree with that... that it really would be a loss of an important niche. I think it's important that those who've been able to do it completely on their own remain engaged w/ the home schooling world/forums so that they can pass on their experience to others looking to do it.


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#129 yvonne

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:49 PM

Yvonne, I don't know that I have met anyone IRL in the past 4 yrs who has homeschooled completely at home. We just moved again, so it will be interesting to see the dynamic here.

 

Neither have I.  I'm not even sure if there's anyone on these boards who's home schooled completely at home, without using outside classes of some sort.  (I do know there are plenty of people who have not used co-ops/CC/community colleges/etc.)



#130 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:58 PM

Neither have I. I'm not even sure if there's anyone on these boards who's home schooled completely at home, without using outside classes of some sort. (I do know there are plenty of people who have not used co-ops/CC/community colleges/etc.)


I would consider that today's definition of at home. ;)

#131 Calming Tea

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 02:48 PM

I hardly feel like a homeschooler. My older son is in community college and my dd goes to a math center for math, a one day academy and I'm only helping to follow up on especially writing assignments and give biology tests.

I'll be reading some material with my dd more
Becusde it would be lonely otherwise, than because it's really necessary.
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#132 nixpix5

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 04:48 PM

It's not that we are concerned about superiority of our methods or conformity of newbies to our methods - it's been a LONG time since I ever thought I had all the answers for everybody - the concern is about whether a rather important niche in hs'ing is at risk of extinction.


This is interesting and something I hadn't considered. As families homeschooling continue to increase whether due to not wanting to utilize traditional schooling, special needs concerns, religious reasons etc I have often wondered if state regulations would start to clamp down more for control. One way they might do this is by increasing public school co-op style resources. We certainly have utilized this option. I prefer a full at home homeschool but our public school funded co-op here provides curriculum money and so many enrichment classes I definitely fell for it. However, they do have accountability hoops. We have to turn in monthly plans showing progress and we are not allowed to use religiously affiliated curriculum. I circumvent this stipulation by using whatever the heck I want and also supplementing with secular curriculum that I put in our progress updates. I think I chose this route because I fell victim to the mantra that my kids need a peer group or to be "socialized". Don't get me wrong, I love it. We use it 2 days per week but others use it one and some use it 4 days...I think it depends on how much handholding someone might want or need. The thing that gets me though is my kids are part of the public school. They would get their high diploma from this co-op and the school reports student outcomes as though they are responsible for it when in fact the parents do all of the work. I am not sure yet if I like that I don't have to deal with state hoops and they do it for me or if I am giving up some level of freedom and control. We don't use them for academic classes...just piano, theater, karate, cooking class etc. I am purposeful about wanting to keep that control over my kids academics. It is a slippery slope though. My daughter has already asked to enroll in the American Girl Hisotry class for the fall. Meh...I guess we will see as we go how much control I am willing to give over.

I will say though, when I was an undergrad I met two people in my science classes who I would hold as some of the most well put together, intelligent, logical, mature and all around great people I have ever met. Both had been homeschooled exclusively at home and college was their first step into a group educational setting. One I am still in contact with and she is a physician. It was due to them that I even considered homeschooling to begin with. I have seen those two girls as being examples of full at home homeschooling working well.
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#133 TracyP

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 05:28 PM

Yvonne, I understand what you're saying, but your post is another reminder that old schoolers aren't going to have anyone asking us how we did it - not when the answer is that we had no coops and emphatically did not want them (especially for elementary).

I really wonder whether traditional hs'ing will be popular, or even known, in the future. I don't care as much as I used to, but I do still worry about the special needs students and other outliers who will always need one one on tutoring and extreme flexibility. Will their parents recognize the hs'ing option, and be able to find resources and support in the age of CC, UMS, Schole groups, Tapestry coops, et cetera?

 

I sometimes wonder that too - if there will be any such thing as homeschooling w/o outside classes in the future. Watching the trends on this board over the last few years makes it seem like "old schoolers" are definitely going the way of the dinosaur....

 

In my real life, however, I know 3 kids who graduated over the last 2 yrs with no outside classes. I semi-regularly see 8 other homeschooling families at open gym. Not one of them is outsourcing at all before high school. At the high school level, 0-2 classes are being outsourced per year. We are rural here, so I'm sure that makes a big difference. But when I look locally, I don't think the traditional form of homeschooling is going anywhere.

 

So which one is the more accurate representation of homeschoolers? I don't know. I sure hope that traditional homeschooling isn't going away. I hope that this move toward more outsourcing is giving more options to parents who feel like they don't have many. I do feel a certain pressure on this forum, though, that outsourcing is something parents *must* do at some point. Ugh. I hope that doesn't become the new normal.


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#134 Calming Tea

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 05:51 PM

This is one of those threads that will never die :)
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#135 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:50 PM

 I hope that this move toward more outsourcing is giving more options to parents who feel like they don't have many. I do feel a certain pressure on this forum, though, that outsourcing is something parents *must* do at some point. Ugh. I hope that doesn't become the new normal.

 

My dd who will be leaving for college in a few weeks and will be attending on full scholarship has never stepped foot inside of a classroom.  She took an online DE stats class this spring and had a 100 avg.  :001_rolleyes:  FWIW, I am not worried about her at all and she has signed up for 300 and 400 level classes.  :001_cool:

This is one of those threads that will never die :)

 

Maybe that is a good thing.  :D  Maybe it is an encouragement to parents who are preyed on and plagued with doubts. 


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#136 Calming Tea

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 08:28 PM

My dd who will be leaving for college in a few weeks and will be attending on full scholarship has never stepped foot inside of a classroom. She took an online DE stats class this spring and had a 100 avg. :001_rolleyes: FWIW, I am not worried about her at all and she has signed up for 300 and 400 level classes. :001_cool:

Maybe that is a good thing. :D Maybe it is an encouragement to parents who are preyed on and plagued with doubts.


Agree. We outsource for my dd because she's an extrovert and her brother is going to be away more, and we happen to have great opportunities. It's not necessary especially in the case of CC Challenge.

#137 Lotsoflittleducklings

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 10:15 PM

I am not sure how that would work when they are inflexible about progression in math, etc. Would you have/pay for a child who did alg at age 10 (to) sit in an alg class in 9th grade? Or a student in Latin 4 in Latin 1? Or ready for chem/physics in physical science?

 

No, I personally wouldn't, unless the child was an extrovert and really wanted to exercise their skills in rhetoric (CC Challenge focuses on this aspect of math, which allows parents some flexibility in the grade level and program for Math that they use at home).  That said, Challenge is more than just mathematics.  So if my child loved discussing the classics with groups but was ahead/behind in science?  Maybe it would be worth it.  Thankfully I'm not there yet.   :hat:  The cost of Challenge is prohibitive, and it does dictate the rest of your homeschooling week far more than Foundations/Essentials, so it may not be for me.  

 

But again, CC really is parent-led (hence, the complaints about "unqualified" tutors as compared with online courses and such). So, yes.... you may not have an astrophysicist guiding your child's Challenge-level science discussion, but on the upside you'll be more actively involved in your child's learning than those who outsource to experts.   Which means, I think, that you'll be more likely to reap the benefits of a home education.  



#138 Artichoke

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 10:58 PM

My dd who will be leaving for college in a few weeks and will be attending on full scholarship has never stepped foot inside of a classroom.  She took an online DE stats class this spring and had a 100 avg.  :001_rolleyes:  FWIW, I am not worried about her at all and she has signed up for 300 and 400 level classes.  :001_cool:

 

Maybe that is a good thing.  :D  Maybe it is an encouragement to parents who are preyed on and plagued with doubts. 

 

 

Bunny trail alert! 

 

Could you elaborate on being able to take level 300 and 400 classes?  Did you do CLEPs, or placement tests, or something else?   That's awesome  that she can take these classes so soon. 



#139 Calming Tea

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:13 PM

No, I personally wouldn't, unless the child was an extrovert and really wanted to exercise their skills in rhetoric (CC Challenge focuses on this aspect of math, which allows parents some flexibility in the grade level and program for Math that they use at home). That said, Challenge is more than just mathematics. So if my child loved discussing the classics with groups but was ahead/behind in science? Maybe it would be worth it. Thankfully I'm not there yet. :hat: The cost of Challenge is prohibitive, and it does dictate the rest of your homeschooling week far more than Foundations/Essentials, so it may not be for me.

But again, CC really is parent-led (hence, the complaints about "unqualified" tutors as compared with online courses and such). So, yes.... you may not have an astrophysicist guiding your child's Challenge-level science discussion, but on the upside you'll be more actively involved in your child's learning than those who outsource to experts. Which means, I think, that you'll be more likely to reap the benefits of a home education.


This is true, with paid experts teaching it's very tempting to let the child take the class, learn the material and earn a grade with very little parent interaction unless the parent has a desire or the student needs help..

It's not really homeschooling, it's outsource-schooling...
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#140 eternalsummer

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 03:03 AM

When the child has outpaced my knowledge or skill in a certain area, I move to more of a facilitator role (although we only do online classes, as there is nothing suitable IRL here).  I didn't take math past Calc BC (I didn't take any at all in college) and I doubt I could really teach past Alg. 2 with any hope of success.  I have never taken Latin and never plan to learn it.


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#141 meganrussell

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 04:31 AM

Yvonne, I don't know that I have met anyone IRL in the past 4 yrs who has homeschooled completely at home. We just moved again, so it will be interesting to see the dynamic here.


We have always homeschooled at home. We have never been part of a co-op or CC or anything like it. We have never been close to anything like that. I've been homeschooling for 10 years.
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#142 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 06:21 AM

No, I personally wouldn't, unless the child was an extrovert and really wanted to exercise their skills in rhetoric (CC Challenge focuses on this aspect of math, which allows parents some flexibility in the grade level and program for Math that they use at home). That said, Challenge is more than just mathematics. So if my child loved discussing the classics with groups but was ahead/behind in science? Maybe it would be worth it. Thankfully I'm not there yet. :hat: The cost of Challenge is prohibitive, and it does dictate the rest of your homeschooling week far more than Foundations/Essentials, so it may not be for me.

But again, CC really is parent-led (hence, the complaints about "unqualified" tutors as compared with online courses and such). So, yes.... you may not have an astrophysicist guiding your child's Challenge-level science discussion, but on the upside you'll be more actively involved in your child's learning than those who outsource to experts. Which means, I think, that you'll be more likely to reap the benefits of a home education.

:) I had typed out a long reply and decided to delete it bc my educational philosophy on reaping the benefits of home education is so far removed from this perspective that we lack any real point of intersection other than kids not attending school. ;) The difference is as vast as radical unschooling and draconian-schooling (fwiw, draconian-schooling is a term long-time parents on the high school forum coined to reflect high-level, intense academic focus.) They both fall under the homeschool umbrella but that is only frame of reference for discussion. :)

Edited by 8FillTheHeart, 04 July 2017 - 06:54 AM.

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#143 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 06:28 AM

Bunny trail alert! 
 
Could you elaborate on being able to take level 300 and 400 classes?  Did you do CLEPs, or placement tests, or something else?   That's awesome  that she can take these classes so soon.

 She did take CLEPs and is entering with sophomore standing. The 300 and 400 level courses were based on placement tests. (She placed into 400 level Russian but opted for a 300 level lit class.)
 

We have always homeschooled at home. We have never been part of a co-op or CC or anything like it. We have never been close to anything like that. I've been homeschooling for 10 years.

:) Do you have a lot of other homeschooling friends following a similar path or you pretty much on your own?
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#144 knitgrl

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 06:46 AM

We are only three years into this homeschooling thing. We live in a rural area, with one local coop. I did go to visit once, just to see what it was all about. I realized that I didn't want to give up any of the subjects they were teaching. They have a science class - I love our science curriculum. They had art, but I have fun doing art with my kids. Once we are done with naptime, we may join a once a week play group that's 45min away, but I think I may end up being old school homeschool, simply because I am too much of a control freak. :laugh:


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#145 Lotsoflittleducklings

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:55 AM

This is true, with paid experts teaching it's very tempting to let the child take the class, learn the material and earn a grade with very little parent interaction unless the parent has a desire or the student needs help..

It's not really homeschooling, it's outsource-schooling...

 

I agree.  And I'm generally not interested in outsource-schooling for my own family (foreign language immersion would be the one exception, since I only speak English fluently  :tongue_smilie:).  That said......

 

When the child has outpaced my knowledge or skill in a certain area, I move to more of a facilitator role (although we only do online classes, as there is nothing suitable IRL here).  I didn't take math past Calc BC (I didn't take any at all in college) and I doubt I could really teach past Alg. 2 with any hope of success.  I have never taken Latin and never plan to

 

....I know a few fantastic homeschooling families who do a significant amount of "outsourcing" with their middle/high school-aged kids, and it's been great for them.  Their kids love it, the parents are still very much involved, and it works. 

 

I can't picture it being great for me, but that's just me.  Part of the draw of homeschooling for me is the opportunity to learn alongside my kids. CC is the closest I've gotten to "outsourcing" and, as I've said above, CC really isn't outsourcing.  At all. The model is intended to equip parents with confidence to know that they can do it on their own, even if they've never studied classically themselves.  


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#146 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 09:04 AM

I agree.  And I'm generally not interested in outsource-schooling for my own family (foreign language immersion would be the one exception, since I only speak English fluently  :tongue_smilie:).  That said......

 

 

....I know a few fantastic homeschooling families who do a significant amount of "outsourcing" with their middle/high school-aged kids, and it's been great for them.  Their kids love it, the parents are still very much involved, and it works. 

 

I can't picture it being great for me, but that's just me.  Part of the draw of homeschooling for me is the opportunity to learn alongside my kids. CC is the closest I've gotten to "outsourcing" and, as I've said above, CC really isn't outsourcing.  At all. The model is intended to equip parents with confidence to know that they can do it on their own, even if they've never studied classically themselves.  

 

My older kid has been doing his math classes at the CC.  Once he got past algebra 2 I was too much out of my element (but I took the math classes at the CC separately from him as well because I wanted to learn too).  That's it though.  I'll be honest though and say if I could afford more than that I probably would go for it because I am just TIRED and kinda burnt.  It's hard to do it all with my kids sometimes. 


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#147 Lotsoflittleducklings

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 09:09 AM

:) I had typed out a long reply and decided to delete it bc my educational philosophy on reaping the benefits of home education is so far removed from this perspective that we lack any real point of intersection other than kids not attending school. ;) The difference is as vast as radical unschooling and draconian-schooling (fwiw, draconian-schooling is a term long-time parents on the high school forum coined to reflect high-level, intense academic focus.) They both fall under the homeschool umbrella but that is only frame of reference for discussion. :)

 

 

 

Aw shucks.  But I'd love to hear more...   :001_smile:    Your approach to homeschooling (from other posts/threads) is one that really resonates with me.  So I'm a bit baffled by the bolded above.  

 

Spinoff-thread? PM?


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#148 luuknam

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 09:14 AM

Spinoff-thread? PM?

 

 

I'm voting spin-off thread.


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#149 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 09:17 AM

CC really isn't outsourcing. At all. The model is intended to equip parents with confidence to know that they can do it on their own, even if they've never studied classically themselves.


When a parent is told what subjects they have to enroll in by birthdate vs a parent selecting subjects according to ability, when the resources for teaching those subjects are selected by someone other than the parent, and when the parent is paying for a service for someone offering whatever it is that a "tutor" offers, that definitely meets the criteria of "outsourcing." You may not have experienced that level of influence over your homeschool bc your oldest is 9 and you find value in their "modeling," but what they offer at an older level is most definitely going to impact what is done at home and the flexibility of the student and parent.
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#150 SarahW

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 09:18 AM

Just raising my hand here to say - "Old School" homeschool had co-ops. Large, extensive, class-based, teacher run co-ops.

 

I attended one in, oh I'm not sure exactly, 1993(ish). Big attendance, had classrooms, paid teachers, etc.

 

It was defined as "extra-curricular" but that meant it included ASL, science, Recorder, and....other things as well. Trying to remember, my mom didn't sign me up for everything.

 

My mom asked for "core" classes once, she was a "3 R's" believer but struggled to implement it. And she was ticked when the secretary said that they didn't offer that, just "extras."

 

So, yeah, what is "old school"? A time period, or just a philosophy born from a time? Because there was a wide variety among my fellow homeschool-ees. And my "old school" mom would have been all over a co-op like CC (except for the price, lol, but she probably would have tried to be a teacher, oh good Lord...).

 

CC is new in that it is nationally-run and systematized (like an MLM). But I really think its popularity really does have to do with tapping into an already perceived need in the homeschool world, not creating new "I don't know how to homeschool by myself" homeschoolers.


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