Feeling sad - Mom said she doesn't think I can homeschool :(

TxMama · April 19, 2009

Not sure I understand the part in bold.... Are you saying that since my mom cannot discipline him effectively, I should not leave him there, since he needs me to discipline him? She will counter with: "He should know to listen to ANY adult, not just his mother!" :tongue_smilie:

Yes. and why should he?

Before you think I'm totally nuts I'll give you an example with my mom and my kids when my youngest son was 3.

My younger son is an active boy which does not make him "bad".

My niece of the same age is a docile girl which does not make her "good".

My dh and I noticed that when these two children played together at grandma's house my mom would automatically assume that any conflict between the two was my son's fault. He's the active child not in montesori so it had to be him starting it. ( insert plenty of the same types of comments that your mom is currently giving you atm about homeschooling/discipline:tongue_smilie:) The "discipline" towards my son from my mom was becoming extremely negative and completely ineffective. A lot of "why can't you be like your cousin" variety comments. Oh and she did spank him and we are a no spanking family. :eek:

My solution was that he didn't stay at grandma's house without me or DH present. Period. We didn't make an issue or even talk to her about it. We visited as a family and that was that. If my son needed discipline while I was there my DH or I did it. If he needed to be removed from a situation that wasn't his fault....then dh or I did it.

Fast forward 3 years. My mom has had plenty of time with the "good" docile grandkids without my son the scapegoat being present to realize that they can cause as much trouble as their active cousin. She has also come to appreciate the joy of having an active child -lots of hiking, biking and gardening- vs. the docile child- lots of reading, beading and watching tv. She has come to appreciate that docile doesn't = good and active doesn't = bad. She has also realized that montessori isn't necessarily better or worse than homeschooling. SHe has also learned some effective techniques to discipline my active kids that don't involve spanking.

We do let the kids stay with her without us but it took awhile for us to feel comfortable. We will not let allow them go to my brother's house or stay at grandma's without us if my brother or wife is present...... but that is another story. :lol:

FO4UR · April 19, 2009

I understand and I really, really appreciate advice from all of you. But truly, isn't it she who needs advice on how to control a child? Or is it really me? My son listens to me. He really does. If he starts to act up, all I do is say his name, and sometimes I do have to threaten, but he listens. Are you saying there are other ways I can get him to behave, without threats?... I really want to know if there are! :) I'm going to check out those articles.

Yes, it is your mom who needs to change her discipline tactics. However, you can't make her change, you can only talk with her and remove your children from the problem situations if she won't/can't make those changes.

I'm LOL that she works at Headstart and is still having this conversation with you???:lol: I would totally turn it around on her and say something like "Gee Mom! You handle a whole classfull of preschoolers all day, and you are telling me you can't handle one 3yo?????" (you probably should not say that....but I would:tongue_smilie:)

Another factor: a classroom is different than a home. In the classroom, your mom probably sets boundaries from the get-go and stays on top of the kids ( "with-it-ness"...I think it's called in "educationaleese":001_huh:) Anywho - at her home, she likely just figures she can relax and go about her business w/o paying much attention to the little energetic 3yo until he's bouncing off the walls.....or perhaps she tries to micromanage every moment and he rebells. This would be why *her perception of home* is far different from the *reality of your home*!

MitchellMom · April 20, 2009

Yes, it is your mom who needs to change her discipline tactics. However, you can't make her change, you can only talk with her and remove your children from the problem situations if she won't/can't make those changes.

I'm LOL that she works at Headstart and is still having this conversation with you???:lol: I would totally turn it around on her and say something like "Gee Mom! You handle a whole classfull of preschoolers all day, and you are telling me you can't handle one 3yo?????" (you probably should not say that....but I would:tongue_smilie:)

Another factor: a classroom is different than a home. In the classroom, your mom probably sets boundaries from the get-go and stays on top of the kids ( "with-it-ness"...I think it's called in "educationaleese":001_huh:) Anywho - at her home, she likely just figures she can relax and go about her business w/o paying much attention to the little energetic 3yo until he's bouncing off the walls.....or perhaps she tries to micromanage every moment and he rebells. This would be why *her perception of home* is far different from the *reality of your home*!

What's most interesting is that when she was telling me about my son, she said I should not punish him by not letting him come to her house. She said, "He gets enough rules at home. He has you fussing at him enough. He needs to come here and let lose and feel free to just play and have fun." And I was thinking, And you wonder why he doesn't listen to you?!?!

Another mom posted about her mom spanking her son: My mom told me that my dad spanked my son a couple of weeks ago. This really, really, really bothered me. My dh spanks our son if he's done something terrible, but it's rare. I don't like that someone else spanked him. :(

Marsha SC · April 20, 2009

I don't care what most people say the "terrible twos" are really around three. I wouldn't worry. You seem to be doing well with your daughter, who is in K; and your son listens to you when you ask him to do something. Believe me that is more than I get some days with my 5 and 7 year olds. Don't panic, be calm. I do agree with getting support, maybe other moms or dads in your area who homeschool. I get a lot of support from my husband but when it comes down to it the other men and women who are doing the schooling they "get it".

Good luck,

Marsha SC

dirty ethel rackham · April 20, 2009

I am so sorry. When I first read your post, I thought he wasn't behaving for you. Yes, you are right. Your mom needs to change since she is the one who is not effective. Forgive me for jumping to conclusions. I guess I need to work on my own reading comprehension;).

SonshineLearner · April 20, 2009

Ok, so with the responses I've read, I'm going to slightly disagree. Homeschooled children do tend to have an authority problem, sometimes. Children your kid's ages are usually too young for this to set in, but if you look at the problem that your mom had, you can just deal with that. Your children did as children sometimes do, they disobeyed.

With my mom, I had to look at what my son was doing and think about how she needed him to behave at her house. I'm not saying that he's perfect, and I'm usually somewhat embarrassed because I know we fall below my mom's expectations. BUT, in her house he's not allowed to jump on the couch...to make this easier...I actually modified our rules at home. "No jumping on the couch". I really don't care....but this ultimately makes HIS life easier... Especially as he's gotten older and we are in other people's homes more.

I would pass on the authority baton next time they're going to be with your mom (or with a babysitter).... Kids....I know you're gonna want to listen to G-ma while you're here today. Let's remember the rules. No jumping on furniture, no .....whatever......, remember to have lots of fun! You could sing that little song for her that you learned yesterday! Remember the treat that I'm bringing home for little kids that are good. (A pack of gum or something)

And, then set up clear expectations with your mom.....Even ask her if the rules are the ones she needs most followed. Ok gma...we've talked about the No jumping on couches...and come when g-ma calls you... The kids have a song for you.... I know they're gonna try hard to listen today! See you later!

I know that my mom puts my son in time-out without too much hesitation. AND, she's way different about it than I am...but...my son loves her...can't wait to go....even with her extra strictness. It works for them...

Carrie:-)

FO4UR · April 20, 2009

What's most interesting is that when she was telling me about my son, she said I should not punish him by not letting him come to her house. She said, "He gets enough rules at home. He has you fussing at him enough. He needs to come here and let lose and feel free to just play and have fun." And I was thinking, And you wonder why he doesn't listen to you?!?!

Another mom posted about her mom spanking her son: My mom told me that my dad spanked my son a couple of weeks ago. This really, really, really bothered me. My dh spanks our son if he's done something terrible, but it's rare. I don't like that someone else spanked him. :(

#1 - she shouldn't be telling YOU about how to parent your son....."boundaries" are a recurring theme - It's a good book I hear;)

#2 - she should be SUPPORTING your parenting.....when your dc are at her house, she should look at that time as an EXTENSION of YOUR parenting, and not her chance to put HER parenting into place.

---I DO agree with her that Grandma's house should be sweet and fun, but "letting loose" and "3yo" does NOT = fun or sweet:001_huh: Fun and sweet with a 3yo looks like making playdoh together, Grandma getting down on the floor to play memory, .... Grandma giving 1-on-1 attention.

---What your mom doesn't understand is that kids NEED rules in order to "let loose and have fun" ex - my kids run and play freely outside with little to no input from me, BECAUSE they follow the rules - the boudaries I have set for them. If they didn't follow the rules, Mommy would have to intervene and they wouldn't leave my side. If your mom will keep your rules and set boundaries for her home, your dc will actually have MORE freedom and not LESS.

#3 - You MUST sit down with your parents and explain to them how things are going to go if your kids continue to spend time alone at their house. Write out YOUR plan for disciplining at their home.

Oh, and #4.....it would not be punishing ds to not let him go back to Grandma's house! That's a punishment for Grandma for not supporting you in your parenting. I wouldn't say it like that....but it is what it is.

I hope you can settle all this w/o a big mess, but it's worth the mess if that's what it takes.

JenniferB · April 20, 2009

Given your curriculum list, I wouldn't say you've been a slouch academically :D. If it weren't hsing, if would be something else that your mom doesn't approve of. You just can't win this argument, so it's time to pass the bean dip. In a couple of years, you might be surprised to hear your mom bragging about how well your hsers are doing. It's been known to happen.

:iagree:

How would you feel about working through the summer and taking your 3 month break from Sept-Nov? I've never hsed with a baby, but lots of others have and survived. Your dd is quite ahead academically, it won't do her any harm to have a light spell and pick up again later.

:iagree: I did this with my last baby - worked on school until he was born, then took about 3 months off to enjoy his babyness. :D

HappyCrazyMama · April 20, 2009

I understand and I really, really appreciate advice from all of you. But truly, isn't it she who needs advice on how to control a child? Or is it really me? My son listens to me. He really does. If he starts to act up, all I do is say his name, and sometimes I do have to threaten, but he listens. Are you saying there are other ways I can get him to behave, without threats?... I really want to know if there are! :) I'm going to check out those articles.

I think it is just the terminology you are using here. When I hear someone say they threaten, I automatically think of them just saying something off the cuff that they really have no intention of following through with, for example, "if you don't pickup your toys I am going to throw them all away." I would assume that if he is listening to you that you must make statements that you intend to follow through with and have done so in the past otherwise he would not be listening to you. That is just not what comes to my mind when I hear the word threaten and perhaps others took it the same way. As for your mom, kids learn real quick who they can walk all over. That is not your fault it is your mother's unfortunately you can't do much about it. If you don't want him misbehaving there and she won't discipline then there is not much you can do except not leave him there alone.

keptwoman · April 20, 2009

#1 - she shouldn't be telling YOU about how to parent your son....."boundaries" are a recurring theme - It's a good book I hear;)

#2 - she should be SUPPORTING your parenting.....when your dc are at her house, she should look at that time as an EXTENSION of YOUR parenting, and not her chance to put HER parenting into place.

---I DO agree with her that Grandma's house should be sweet and fun, but "letting loose" and "3yo" does NOT = fun or sweet:001_huh: Fun and sweet with a 3yo looks like making playdoh together, Grandma getting down on the floor to play memory, .... Grandma giving 1-on-1 attention.

---What your mom doesn't understand is that kids NEED rules in order to "let loose and have fun" ex - my kids run and play freely outside with little to no input from me, BECAUSE they follow the rules - the boudaries I have set for them. If they didn't follow the rules, Mommy would have to intervene and they wouldn't leave my side. If your mom will keep your rules and set boundaries for her home, your dc will actually have MORE freedom and not LESS.

#3 - You MUST sit down with your parents and explain to them how things are going to go if your kids continue to spend time alone at their house. Write out YOUR plan for disciplining at their home.

Oh, and #4.....it would not be punishing ds to not let him go back to Grandma's house! That's a punishment for Grandma for not supporting you in your parenting. I wouldn't say it like that....but it is what it is.

I hope you can settle all this w/o a big mess, but it's worth the mess if that's what it takes.

Yes I really have to agree with all of this. Your Mom is way out of line but right now you are letting her be there. You will need to put some boundaries down and tell her where they are before she stops stepping over them. Both with regards to your parenting and your schooling.

My boundary was "this is our decision, we are not changing our mind, you really need to stop questioning me on this" and then I stopped discussing it with her unless she brought it up in a positive and constructive way. Yes, it hurts not sharing this part of your lives; and homeschooling is a MASSIVE part of your lives when you are living it, with your Mom but for now just not talking to her about it will cause you less grief than discussing it. I have been lucky enough not to need to enforce the boundary, you may not be so lucky but you just need to get a phrase for instance "this is our decision, I'm not prepared to discuss it with you, would you like some bean dip?" and repeat ad nauseum until she gets the message.

It sounds like you are doing a great job both on the parenting and discipline side of things. Don't let your Moms nay-saying make you feel somehow inadequate because you aren't.

Edited April 20, 2009 by keptwoman

FlockOfSillies · April 20, 2009

She said they would have another authority figure disciplining them so they would know there were other adults they had to obey, not just me.

Obviously, your mother does not qualify as an authority figure. How did she manage to teach you not to jump on the furniture, or bang toys? Is she not capable of enforcing house rules in her own home? What if your son's teacher, should you put him in school, is as ineffectual as she is in enforcing discipline? And mind you, there's an awfully good chance of THAT... :tongue_smilie:

Alice · April 20, 2009

I have had similar issues with the discipline thing with my Mom. I was an only child and one of those "good" kids. I was pretty quiet, played quietly, etc and liked to please adults so rarely misbehaved (at least openly :)). I have two boys who are sweet, wonderful kids but very different than I was as a child. My Mom has often made comments like "Wow,you would never have done that" about some of their behavior. Usually very normal behavior for a boy their age. It always makes me feel like she is saying it's because she was a better parent...and I've told her that's how it makes me feel.

But I also think that she really is at a loss on what to do. As anyone with multiple children knows every child is different. When you are the parent, part of the job is figuring out who your kids are and what works with them. If your Mom never parented kids with similar personalities to yours, or if she had a very different parenting style than yours that may be part of the issue. I don't think being a teacher really helps with this. My Mom was also a teacher. When I've worked with kids as a teacher (Sunday School, etc) it's totally different than as a parent. I think very young kids often behave better for teachers or other authority figures (I'm not agreeing with your Mom about homeschooling) just because sometimes it's safer for them to push the boundaries at home. As kids get into older grades of school, that changes but for 3-4 year olds I think it's true. I always get comments from parents about the Sunday School class I teach (13 2-4 year olds) that their kids are listening so much better, etc. But I think that's because it's just a new and unfamiliar setting and they act differently. She may be seeing the same thing in her Head Start classes.

I think others have said this but it sounds like to me the biggest issue is between you and your Mom and the boundaries there. I think you either need to be very honest with her and tell her that her comments are hurtful and unacceptable....and then be prepared to have her be upset with you. That's difficult, I know but sometimes it's necessary. Or you can take the "pass the bean dip" approach and just smile and say nothing but do what you want to do anyway.

MitchellMom · April 21, 2009

Ok, so with the responses I've read, I'm going to slightly disagree. Homeschooled children do tend to have an authority problem, sometimes. Children your kid's ages are usually too young for this to set in, but if you look at the problem that your mom had, you can just deal with that. Your children did as children sometimes do, they disobeyed.
With my mom, I had to look at what my son was doing and think about how she needed him to behave at her house. I'm not saying that he's perfect, and I'm usually somewhat embarrassed because I know we fall below my mom's expectations. BUT, in her house he's not allowed to jump on the couch...to make this easier...I actually modified our rules at home. "No jumping on the couch". I really don't care....but this ultimately makes HIS life easier... Especially as he's gotten older and we are in other people's homes more.

I would pass on the authority baton next time they're going to be with your mom (or with a babysitter).... Kids....I know you're gonna want to listen to G-ma while you're here today. Let's remember the rules. No jumping on furniture, no .....whatever......, remember to have lots of fun! You could sing that little song for her that you learned yesterday! Remember the treat that I'm bringing home for little kids that are good. (A pack of gum or something)

And, then set up clear expectations with your mom.....Even ask her if the rules are the ones she needs most followed. Ok gma...we've talked about the No jumping on couches...and come when g-ma calls you... The kids have a song for you.... I know they're gonna try hard to listen today! See you later!

I know that my mom puts my son in time-out without too much hesitation. AND, she's way different about it than I am...but...my son loves her...can't wait to go....even with her extra strictness. It works for them...

Carrie:-)

TOTALLY makes sense. But he does not do the things at my house that he does at her house. Well, he tries to jump on the couch, but all he has to do is see me looking at him and he flops down, stopping his jumping, though grinning b/c he knows he was caught! I think my parents let him get away w/ so much for so long that now they are looking for someone else to blame.

#1 - she shouldn't be telling YOU about how to parent your son....."boundaries" are a recurring theme - It's a good book I hear;)

#2 - she should be SUPPORTING your parenting.....when your dc are at her house, she should look at that time as an EXTENSION of YOUR parenting, and not her chance to put HER parenting into place.

---I DO agree with her that Grandma's house should be sweet and fun, but "letting loose" and "3yo" does NOT = fun or sweet:001_huh: Fun and sweet with a 3yo looks like making playdoh together, Grandma getting down on the floor to play memory, .... Grandma giving 1-on-1 attention.

---What your mom doesn't understand is that kids NEED rules in order to "let loose and have fun" ex - my kids run and play freely outside with little to no input from me, BECAUSE they follow the rules - the boudaries I have set for them. If they didn't follow the rules, Mommy would have to intervene and they wouldn't leave my side. If your mom will keep your rules and set boundaries for her home, your dc will actually have MORE freedom and not LESS.

#3 - You MUST sit down with your parents and explain to them how things are going to go if your kids continue to spend time alone at their house. Write out YOUR plan for disciplining at their home.

Oh, and #4.....it would not be punishing ds to not let him go back to Grandma's house! That's a punishment for Grandma for not supporting you in your parenting. I wouldn't say it like that....but it is what it is.

I hope you can settle all this w/o a big mess, but it's worth the mess if that's what it takes.

I don't know ... he cried on Sunday when I dropped off my dd and he could not stay. :( I think it was punishing.... :confused:

Yes I really have to agree with all of this. Your Mom is way out of line but right now you are letting her be there. You will need to put some boundaries down and tell her where they are before she stops stepping over them. Both with regards to your parenting and your schooling.

My boundary was "this is our decision, we are not changing our mind, you really need to stop questioning me on this" and then I stopped discussing it with her unless she brought it up in a positive and constructive way. Yes, it hurts not sharing this part of your lives; and homeschooling is a MASSIVE part of your lives when you are living it, with your Mom but for now just not talking to her about it will cause you less grief than discussing it. I have been lucky enough not to need to enforce the boundary, you may not be so lucky but you just need to get a phrase for instance "this is our decision, I'm not prepared to discuss it with you, would you like some bean dip?" and repeat ad nauseum until she gets the message.

It sounds like you are doing a great job both on the parenting and discipline side of things. Don't let your Moms nay-saying make you feel somehow inadequate because you aren't.

Yes, but you don't know my mom.... If I tried to talk to her, or stand up to her, she would get VERY defensive and counter-attack. That is how she is. She never just listens and responds nicely. It has a lot to do with how she was brought up, I think: An absent mother and a hateful father who eventually sent her away. She never saw true lovingness in action. Of course, that's no excuse for being that way, but I guess it explains it. Anyway, to make a long story short, I am terrified of confronting her!... Maybe if I just never talk about homeschooling again?...

Obviously, your mother does not qualify as an authority figure. How did she manage to teach you not to jump on the furniture, or bang toys? Is she not capable of enforcing house rules in her own home? What if your son's teacher, should you put him in school, is as ineffectual as she is in enforcing discipline? And mind you, there's an awfully good chance of THAT... :tongue_smilie:

YES! This happened! He started a public pre-K in November (got in b/c of a speech delay) and went two mornings a week. I had been reading to this class once a week since school started in August. I saw the teachers in action and they were VERY permissive / submissive. They would softly call down a disobedient child, put him or her in time-out for two minutes, then let him or her get up and start doing the "bad thing" again. :001_huh:

[

Lovedtodeath · April 21, 2009

Well, just be a duck and let it roll of your back. Don't talk about homeschooling.

Maybe provide mom with something concrete that you follow as to your discipline plan, something that contrasts permissiveness (which is exactly what she is doing, you give a child too much freedom and then become angry that they are so wild.) You can present it as, "I really understand that you feel we have a discipline problem, so I am trying this new approach. It would help me out a lot if you used it to so that it is consistent (perhaps that is part of the book or article as well).

My mom and I have a similar relationship and when it gets too stressful, I just avoid her altogether for a while. Neither kid goes to her house. We don't talk as often. Things simmer down.

Rosy · April 21, 2009

Yes, but you don't know my mom.... If I tried to talk to her, or stand up to her, she would get VERY defensive and counter-attack. That is how she is. She never just listens and responds nicely. It has a lot to do with how she was brought up, I think: An absent mother and a hateful father who eventually sent her away. She never saw true lovingness in action. Of course, that's no excuse for being that way, but I guess it explains it. Anyway, to make a long story short, I am terrified of confronting her!... Maybe if I just never talk about homeschooling again?...

[

Coming in late here...my mom is a lot like what you're describing. She's disapproved of something in my parenting literally since day 1 (she was upset that I finished my shower and dried off when DD was hungry). She even tells me she thinks I'm a great mom, but there's always something. She's a public school teacher and completely disagrees with homeschooling.

Anyway, it's likely that your mom will find ways of bringing it up and voicing her disapproval no matter what you do. If I could go back in time, I would have drawn a much better boundary from the beginning. As it is, I've committed to confronting her next time she says something (it's always in passing, in a passive-agressive manner, and often in front of the kids, so I haven't done much in the past when she's badgered me). My advice to you would be to find some friends who homeschool, get in a co-op or support group--not for them or for their "socialization", but for you. Until you've learned to be ok with her disapproval and criticism, it might be really helpful for you to have someone to commiserate with (and it sounds like your DH might not be the one to lay all your struggles on.)

Good luck, and keep up the good work!

3and3 · April 21, 2009

First, of all don't worry about the homeschooling with a baby!! Your older children will learn life skills that will stay with them FOREVER. I had twins 3/08 and was teaching dds 1st and pre-k and had ds 3yo. I planned for my school break when I had the babies(c-section) and went through the summer some to make up for it. My daughters have learned to care for a baby and my wild son has learned to stay calm and watch out for his little brothers.

Secondly, my ds is now 4 1/2 and is just now calming down long enough to sit still. He needs more run around time than his sisters. Also, you might want to try making sure he has had some wild time before he goes to see Grandma. And explain the rules before you go. I explain to my children before we go to there grandparents because they can NOT be loud at their house. (we can be a pretty loud family) :D

Lastly, my parents didn't agree with me homeschooling either!! I know how painfull it can be. Socialization was always their thing, but really in public school is that REAL socialization. How often are we surrounded by people of only our same age in real life. We need to prepare our children to be able to interact with people of all ages!! Also as far as academic, I homeschooled my oldest now 17 from 5th-10th grade. Then he returned to public school. He has acheived a 4.0 and is taking college level and AP classes. By the way while homschooling him I had 5 children!!

Please don't allow your mother to discourage you from homeschooling. It is yours and DH decision on how to care for the children God gave you.

Jenny M

Mom to 6

woolybear · April 22, 2009

Wait a minute....your son is 3 and he jumps on the couch, bangs toys on the floor and doesn't listen to them??? Heeee heeee.......It sounds like he's ......3!!!!

I haven't read all the responses, but I'm sure you've had some good ones here. I'll just add that I've had a hard year with ds (age 8) behavior due to illness, in part. However, I have heard almost the exact same words from my mom. How, if he went to school he would behave better because he would learn there are other adults with authority, etc. It definitely gets to me sometimes. However, I am still pretty sure that home is a better place for him. Do what you believe is best. You can get lots of support here. And hopefully you can find some other hsers locally to hang with. That can help quite a bit.

:grouphug:

Woolybear

keptwoman · April 22, 2009

Yes, but you don't know my mom.... If I tried to talk to her, or stand up to her, she would get VERY defensive and counter-attack. That is how she is. She never just listens and responds nicely. It has a lot to do with how she was brought up, I think: An absent mother and a hateful father who eventually sent her away. She never saw true lovingness in action. Of course, that's no excuse for being that way, but I guess it explains it. Anyway, to make a long story short, I am terrified of confronting her!... Maybe if I just never talk about homeschooling again?..

If you don't feel you can confront her then absolutely. Just don't talk about homeschooling with her at all. If she starts the topic evade it by changing the subject.

But most importantly like others have said; you need to surround yourself with support so that you have positive influence in your life. And don't let your Moms naysaying let you feel bad about yourself or what you are doing. Your Mom is coming from a position of ignorance and so her opinion on this matter does not count.

YOU ARE DOING A GREAT JOB!!! Keep telling yourself that everytime you get negativity from your family. Because it's true. You are!!

Lynda in Florida · April 23, 2009

Hi,

I am not trying to get off subject here but is it possible that your son may have a food sensitivity? I noticed that my son always acted more "adventurous" at my parents house. Once we realized that he has an aggressive reaction to red #40 and yellow #5&6 (and try to keep those additives away) we have noticed a tremendous difference in him. My parents seem to think that giving colorful candy and sweets are a sign of love so he would ingest quite a bit while being at their house. Your description of the situation sounded so familiar, I just thought I would give my .02. Our Moms mean well but sometimes they flip back into parent mode. I wish you the best with your schooling!

my4boysmom · April 23, 2009

First I must say that I can understand your hurt. I think we look for support from our family. My mil is a retired teacher so when she supported me I was shocked. She didn't support her daughter when she first HS and that was when it was controversal.

I did laugh regarding the comment on what not to act like. I have 4 boys and we have only HS our youngest two for 1 1/2 years. I don't want them to act like these kids. My mom has this illusion that 3 years shouldn't do certain things and told me that her girls never did this. lol The boys were like aliens to her. They acted like boys and they acted like 3 year olds. lol Maybe she just forgotten what they do or she never experienced this before. It will be just fine. He is being a 3 year old boy.

It sounds to me like you are doing great. I haven't HS with a baby but I have four kids and things can be overwhelming for anything anytime. The wonderful thing about HS is that you can do school when you want or need to. We are doing school through the summer. We take our breaks throughout the year and I have older kids.

The socialization part is something have control over. I prefer my boys NOT hang out with the neighbor kids. They are not missing anything. They don't fit with them anyways. I have older children and they often leave the park because the PS kids are there up to no good. I'm glad that they have that common sense to stay away.

Don't worry so much, you are doing great and you are giving your kids the best possible education. Join a group and get your local support there because we have a few in our group that have babies and they seem to work it out great. You just tweek it along the way. Nothing has to be perfect just interesting. Take the opportunities and lean on us if you need to. I wish I would have done it from the beginning like you are. You will do great.

TracyR · April 23, 2009

You can do this. New baby or not. Would you believe I have been cyberschooling ( public school at home) and in 2006 my youngest one came into the world and unexpectedly had mulitple health problems. Guess, what? We all survived!!! Was it a little stressful and overwhelming at times? You bet. But we all survived and my girls are better for it. They came along with us on many occasions and they have learned that children with disabilities are just kids. Nothing more.

You are doing great. Your kids are young. After baby is born I would just focus on reading to them, then when life becomes more "normal" then slowly add in the other subjects.

Don't overwhelm yourself thinking you have to do all of the subjects all of the time. If you get in math on a certain day and you guys read a good book , then call it a day. You still have a lot of homeschooling time left and just worry about enjoying your little ones while they are little. They grow up so fast!!

Hang in there, your doing great. My mil always throws her two cents in, and I always say that we can agree to disagree.

Colleen in NS · April 23, 2009

I am terrified of confronting her!... Maybe if I just never talk about homeschooling again?

Sounds like a good plan to me! And remember to "pass the bean dip" if she brings it up. You'll get more confident with setting the boundary the more you practice.

Lizzie in Ma · April 23, 2009

I'm 50 and I've been homeschooling since 1992. I've graduated two so I feel I can speak from the "older woman" perspective. I agree with what all the others have said. I read all the posts and found myself nodding all the way through. I just felt a desire to reinforce all that advice by saying "Amen!"

Also want to emphasize that socialization is the process whereby children learn how to get along in the adult world and become productive citizens. This is NOT accomplished by putting them with groups of other children their own age. It is accomplished by including them in your life, your daily activities, your chores.

Again, you are doing a marvelous job homeschooling. Your mom just sounds insecure. Do not allow her comments to discourage you. As the others said, many parents come around. My dad, with his PhD in Political Science, was horrified when he found out I was going to homeschool my children. Now he brags on them continually - it took several years. Just keep doing what you know is right. She'll probably come around, too.:)

As far as the baby goes, here is an article that I think will encourage you. What you will find as you go through your homeschool journey is that character is much, much, much more important than academics. You will not be able to teach your children everything there is to know in the world during their time with you. They will be old and gray and still learning new things. What you need to teach them now is how to live, how to love God with all their hearts, how to treat others with kindness, how to have a servant heart, how to work cheerfully, how to respect proper authority, how to persevere through the rough times, how to be thankful. It won't matter how smart they are or how talented they are or what their SAT scores are if they haven't developed godly character. Godly character can best be taught by parents at home (Deuteronomy 6).

The Baby is the Lesson

God gave us families to learn how to get along with other people. Honestly, they do not need any more socialization than they are already getting. You are doing very well and you should be proud of what you've accomplished so far.

Listen to Kate and all the other btdt women who responded. Bless your heart, in Ma, K isn't even mandatory and preschool sure isn't (yet). :grouphug::grouphug:

luv4bugs · April 23, 2009

In response to your update:

Your mom is right in that your children need to obey authority but it is YOUR authority first. God blessed you with these kids to raise and train up. Even if you send them to school and they start "acting" better (not sure what that looks like) you and your husband are still accountable for training them and loving them. The perspective that your mom has is that school can train your children. I believe it is the parents responsibility to grow their children and be the authority in their lives. Wouldn't it hurt you worse that your children respond and behave for someone else (teacher) rather than you?

With all that said: I am sorry that your own family is giving you opposition. I pray that you get the encouragement and strength you need to endure this.

Hugs to you.

scrappyhappymama · April 23, 2009

As a mom of boys, I gotta say that jumping on the couch and banging toys on the floor is not out of line for a three year old! They have SO much energy and it's all in fun for them. Of course, if your house rules include no jumping on the couch, then great enforce that. :D Your mom letting him get away with stuff that you don't tolerate at home reflects more on her than it does on you! If she thinks that he needs an additional authority figure, then she should step up and be it. The purpose of school is to educate anyway, not to do the jobs that parents and family members don't want to do (although God Bless 'em, I know teachers do get stuck doing just that).

As far as a new baby goes- sure it's challenging, especially during that newborn sleep deprived stage. But it IS workable. My 4th is due in August and we are schooling straight through until then and taking off a month or two once baby comes. We'll still read together and do hands on fun activities, but I'm not holding myself to anything formal when I won't be getting more than an hour or two at a stretch to sleep. BUT, if your kids were in school/preschool, you'd be having to push just as much, if not more to get them to school early in the morning, help out with take home projects, participate in fund raisers and class mom stuff... ugh, just thinking about doing that with a newborn makes me really, really appreciate having the flexibility to homeschool.

Not sure what state you are in, but many don't even have mandatory attendance until age 6. You have a lot of time to get formal stuff rolling- a few months of relaxed schooling with a newborn will not hurt anything! If you want your mom off your back, you could even tell her you are taking this decision year by year, and the K and preschool years are the best time to try it out and see if it works for your family. In the (unlikely) event you hs next year and hate it and decide your mom was right all along (just for sake of argument), you could still enroll your daughter in K or 1st the following year and she'd be right along side her peers.

Bottom line. Your family, your decision. It's hard to put our foot down with the ones we love, but I think the 'bean dip" advice is great. If she can't be supportive, it's not a topic up for discussion. Period. {{{HUGS}}} to you!

littlemomof3 · April 23, 2009

Hi,

I am not trying to get off subject here but is it possible that your son may have a food sensitivity? I noticed that my son always acted more "adventurous" at my parents house. Once we realized that he has an aggressive reaction to red #40 and yellow #5&6 (and try to keep those additives away) we have noticed a tremendous difference in him. My parents seem to think that giving colorful candy and sweets are a sign of love so he would ingest quite a bit while being at their house. Your description of the situation sounded so familiar, I just thought I would give my .02. Our Moms mean well but sometimes they flip back into parent mode. I wish you the best with your schooling!

We do the same thing thru the Feingold program. Has made all the difference. Might be worth a try. Feingold.org.

momof4boys · April 23, 2009

Sounds like you are doing fine and just need some encouragement from those who can relate. Even the best intentioned mothers sometimes don't really understand what we are attempting to do with their grandchildren. Take a deep breath and keep on going!

MitchellMom · April 24, 2009

Hi,

I am not trying to get off subject here but is it possible that your son may have a food sensitivity? I noticed that my son always acted more "adventurous" at my parents house. Once we realized that he has an aggressive reaction to red #40 and yellow #5&6 (and try to keep those additives away) we have noticed a tremendous difference in him. My parents seem to think that giving colorful candy and sweets are a sign of love so he would ingest quite a bit while being at their house. Your description of the situation sounded so familiar, I just thought I would give my .02. Our Moms mean well but sometimes they flip back into parent mode. I wish you the best with your schooling!

That's smart thinking, but no ... he eats candy here, too. :blush5: He actually is much more wound up in the evening than any other time of the day, and since he visits them in the evenings, that's the main part of it!

First I must say that I can understand your hurt. I think we look for support from our family. My mil is a retired teacher so when she supported me I was shocked. She didn't support her daughter when she first HS and that was when it was controversal.

I did laugh regarding the comment on what not to act like. I have 4 boys and we have only HS our youngest two for 1 1/2 years. I don't want them to act like these kids. My mom has this illusion that 3 years shouldn't do certain things and told me that her girls never did this. lol The boys were like aliens to her. They acted like boys and they acted like 3 year olds. lol Maybe she just forgotten what they do or she never experienced this before. It will be just fine. He is being a 3 year old boy.

It sounds to me like you are doing great. I haven't HS with a baby but I have four kids and things can be overwhelming for anything anytime. The wonderful thing about HS is that you can do school when you want or need to. We are doing school through the summer. We take our breaks throughout the year and I have older kids.

The socialization part is something have control over. I prefer my boys NOT hang out with the neighbor kids. They are not missing anything. They don't fit with them anyways. I have older children and they often leave the park because the PS kids are there up to no good. I'm glad that they have that common sense to stay away.

Don't worry so much, you are doing great and you are giving your kids the best possible education. Join a group and get your local support there because we have a few in our group that have babies and they seem to work it out great. You just tweek it along the way. Nothing has to be perfect just interesting. Take the opportunities and lean on us if you need to. I wish I would have done it from the beginning like you are. You will do great.

That's nice of you to say, but today I took dd to Kindergarten Registration at that charter school, *just because I wanted to see what it was like.* My daughter can read and write, but math is her weakness. She can count a little past 30 but even recognizing the difference between 12 and 21 can stump her on bad days. We are going to work through an entire Singapore K math review between now and the baby's birth b/c I just feel like she needs all that information gone over again before she's ready for the first grade curriculum. Anyway, back to the registration, there was a little boy who counted to 100 AND counted by 10s to 100! Listening to him, I felt like I have been failing my daughter! She can't count that way. :( That's when I thought, Should I send her here, after all, so they can teach her in a way that I might cannot?

Edited April 24, 2009 by MitchellMom

Lovedtodeath · April 24, 2009

Anyway, back to the registration, there was a little boy who counted to 100 AND counted by 10s to 100!

But can he tell between 13 and 31? You don't know. And can he read and write? hmmmm...

Polly · April 24, 2009

I haven't read the other replies. I know you want to please your mother and keep the peace. You or your husband need to tell her that the discussion of schooling is over. They are your children and she needs to keep her thoughts to herself. She told you what she thinks and ONCE is enough. Tell her you appreciate her concern but your decision is made and you will not discuss it anymore. Set your boundaries. You can do this lovingly and with respect. Until you shut it down, it will only get worse.

We've been down this road over 12 years ago. My parents are both school teachers. They eventually came around. Now, all 20 of their grandchildren are homeschooled (and I am a single parent with their support) and they are very grateful. Sometimes you need to do the difficult thing to keep the peace.

I hope this helps!

FlockOfSillies · April 24, 2009

Anyway, back to the registration, there was a little boy who counted to 100 AND counted by 10s to 100! Listening to him, I felt like I have been failing my daughter! She can't count that way. :( That's when I thought, Should I send her here, after all, so they can teach her in a way that I might cannot?

So, this boy is registering for K, and he already knows those things? That means the school hasn't been teaching him, then? He learned all that at home? Sounds like a recipe for boredom for that kid when he hits K in the fall. All the other kids, except for a few boys and maybe one mathy girl, will be just learning to count by 10's, and he'll be sitting there thinking, "I know this already. Yawn. I think I'll make a paper wad."

Here's a news flash: girls tend to be more verbal/reading/writing, boys tend to be more mathy/spatial/analytical. Your dd may not be at the top of her "class" in every subject, and she doesn't have to be.

The main thing you need to do right now is :chillpill:. If you want to succeed in homeschooling, the simplest way is to do it every day. Consistency, plugging away, not taking the day off for silly reasons, and doing at least some of the schoolwork on bad days will make the most impact, imho.

The other thing to do, and this is something I've had to do myself, is to grow up and grow a spine. Your mom sounds like what my mom and sister used to be like, until they began to see that I wasn't bending over backwards to please them anymore. I wasn't seeking their permission and approval to live my life. I stopped being the little girl and little sister who needed to be guided by them into making choices they liked. They'd get upset and try to manipulate me with their head games, but I stopped playing the game. I stopped caring (as much) whether "Mommy might get mad!" :eek: I don't know whether they even realized how manipulative they were acting.

I really hate confrontation, but I've grown more accustomed to handling the awkwardness. Dh has been a huge help to me in this area. And wonder of wonders, my mom and sis are fairly reasonable people now!

Nestof3 · April 24, 2009

My husband totally supports homeschooling, but even he says he worries I will feel overwhelmed when the new baby is here. :(

I just wanted to encourage you that I:

got married in Oct 1998

conceived Nathan in January of '99

began homeschooling Aaron (my "step-son") in September of '99

and gave birth to Nathan in October of '99

Yes, it was overwhelming, but I would have had it no other way.

Harriet Vane · April 24, 2009

That's nice of you to say, but today I took dd to Kindergarten Registration at that charter school, *just because I wanted to see what it was like.* My daughter can read and write, but math is her weakness. She can count a little past 30 but even recognizing the difference between 12 and 21 can stump her on bad days. We are going to work through an entire Singapore K math review between now and the baby's birth b/c I just feel like she needs all that information gone over again before she's ready for the first grade curriculum. Anyway, back to the registration, there was a little boy who counted to 100 AND counted by 10s to 100! Listening to him, I felt like I have been failing my daughter! She can't count that way. :( That's when I thought, Should I send her here, after all, so they can teach her in a way that I might cannot?

Okay, please, please stop doing this to yourself.

Don't go to the local school and take a look--you're just torturing yourself.

Your daughter is not even five years old yet. Relax. She will learn all that she needs to know.

In any incoming kindergarten class there will be a whole spectrum of kids--some will know everything that is taught in kindergarten already and will be bored silly and at the other end of the spectrum some will come in knowing nothing. There have been numerous school studies that show that things even out by about third grade. (I cannot cite a source, but I have read this numerous times in educational media as well as other media--you can probably google to make sure. I also know for certain I have read it in studies questioning the efficacy of HeadStart programs academically.) Comparisons to other individual children don't help, and will only keep you on a roller coaster of insecurity.

Just measure where YOUR child is at, and teach her what she needs to learn. A little practice every day really and truly does get the job done.

Every child, whether in a school setting or home, will demonstrate gaps in learning. When you see those gaps (as her tutor trust me, you WILL see what she has mastered and what she has not), you will simply teach and practice to fill in her understanding. There is NO way at all that a teacher of a classroom can see and address this as well as a one-on-one tutor can.

Also, please remember that she will not be brilliant in every subject, or even in every skill within a subject. My dd struggles mightily with math. That's okay. Her strengths are in language areas--foreign language, writing, reading, history. We keep plugging away at the math, and she masters it more slowly while soaring and enjoying her areas of strength. The beauty of homeschooling is that she can learn at her pace in all areas--taking math more slowly and learning it well, and moving ahead in language arts.

Please don't indulge those feelings of failure. Your daughter is only four years old. There is plenty of time. Enjoy your time together--read a lot and play outside a lot. It will be okay.

Nestof3 · April 24, 2009

I appreciate the advice! But what do I need to change about my parenting?.... I mean, he listens to me! Isn't it my mom who needs to change?... :confused:

I have had similar problems with other things -- not jumping on furniture and such, but my mom is way slacker than I am, and the boys know it. I don't think it is an intentional thing with them, but when you set the standard so low, that is what they aim for, IMHO.

For example, she always has to get after them for not rewinding movies and putting them away. Yes, I have to remind my boys here (sometimes), but they react immediately. I don't threaten with anything, I just say, "guys -- the movie," and they act.

She'll say something like, "if you don't start rewinding the movies, I'm getting rid of all of them."

Well, that, of course, never happens!

So, Ben has been earning money lately by asking for odd jobs. My mom hired him to clean her baseboards. I told her how much I paid Ben to do it so she didn't slip him a twenty! She had the boys spend the night that night, and I found out she PAID Nathan to rewind the videos and put them away.

I couldn't believe that. How does she expect them to take her seriously?

MitchellMom · April 25, 2009

So, this boy is registering for K, and he already knows those things? That means the school hasn't been teaching him, then? He learned all that at home? Sounds like a recipe for boredom for that kid when he hits K in the fall. All the other kids, except for a few boys and maybe one mathy girl, will be just learning to count by 10's, and he'll be sitting there thinking, "I know this already. Yawn. I think I'll make a paper wad."

Here's a news flash: girls tend to be more verbal/reading/writing, boys tend to be more mathy/spatial/analytical. Your dd may not be at the top of her "class" in every subject, and she doesn't have to be.

The main thing you need to do right now is :chillpill:. If you want to succeed in homeschooling, the simplest way is to do it every day. Consistency, plugging away, not taking the day off for silly reasons, and doing at least some of the schoolwork on bad days will make the most impact, imho.

The other thing to do, and this is something I've had to do myself, is to grow up and grow a spine. Your mom sounds like what my mom and sister used to be like, until they began to see that I wasn't bending over backwards to please them anymore. I wasn't seeking their permission and approval to live my life. I stopped being the little girl and little sister who needed to be guided by them into making choices they liked. They'd get upset and try to manipulate me with their head games, but I stopped playing the game. I stopped caring (as much) whether "Mommy might get mad!" :eek: I don't know whether they even realized how manipulative they were acting.

I really hate confrontation, but I've grown more accustomed to handling the awkwardness. Dh has been a huge help to me in this area. And wonder of wonders, my mom and sis are fairly reasonable people now!

Boy is this eye-opening! I DO try to get my mom's approval! I do still feel like the little girl around her. Wow. Thanks for helping me see this!

Okay, please, please stop doing this to yourself.

Don't go to the local school and take a look--you're just torturing yourself.

Your daughter is not even five years old yet. Relax. She will learn all that she needs to know.

In any incoming kindergarten class there will be a whole spectrum of kids--some will know everything that is taught in kindergarten already and will be bored silly and at the other end of the spectrum some will come in knowing nothing. There have been numerous school studies that show that things even out by about third grade. (I cannot cite a source, but I have read this numerous times in educational media as well as other media--you can probably google to make sure. I also know for certain I have read it in studies questioning the efficacy of HeadStart programs academically.) Comparisons to other individual children don't help, and will only keep you on a roller coaster of insecurity.

Just measure where YOUR child is at, and teach her what she needs to learn. A little practice every day really and truly does get the job done.

Every child, whether in a school setting or home, will demonstrate gaps in learning. When you see those gaps (as her tutor trust me, you WILL see what she has mastered and what she has not), you will simply teach and practice to fill in her understanding. There is NO way at all that a teacher of a classroom can see and address this as well as a one-on-one tutor can.

Also, please remember that she will not be brilliant in every subject, or even in every skill within a subject. My dd struggles mightily with math. That's okay. Her strengths are in language areas--foreign language, writing, reading, history. We keep plugging away at the math, and she masters it more slowly while soaring and enjoying her areas of strength. The beauty of homeschooling is that she can learn at her pace in all areas--taking math more slowly and learning it well, and moving ahead in language arts.

Please don't indulge those feelings of failure. Your daughter is only four years old. There is plenty of time. Enjoy your time together--read a lot and play outside a lot. It will be okay.

I have had similar problems with other things -- not jumping on furniture and such, but my mom is way slacker than I am, and the boys know it. I don't think it is an intentional thing with them, but when you set the standard so low, that is what they aim for, IMHO.

For example, she always has to get after them for not rewinding movies and putting them away. Yes, I have to remind my boys here (sometimes), but they react immediately. I don't threaten with anything, I just say, "guys -- the movie," and they act.

She'll say something like, "if you don't start rewinding the movies, I'm getting rid of all of them."

Well, that, of course, never happens!

So, Ben has been earning money lately by asking for odd jobs. My mom hired him to clean her baseboards. I told her how much I paid Ben to do it so she didn't slip him a twenty! She had the boys spend the night that night, and I found out she PAID Nathan to rewind the videos and put them away.

I couldn't believe that. How does she expect them to take her seriously?

Thanks for posting.

(I feel bad - my daughter is 5 now - she turned 5 on Monday and I need to go update my siggy now! :tongue_smilie:)

But thank you ladies for your posts. Really. ALL of them have meant so much to me. I realized months ago that math was not my dd's strong point, and accepting this helped me really back off her. I guess, when I saw that little boy, I thought, Oh no! Should I NOT have backed off her? Would she be that smart now if I hadn't?! So it was a lot of self-doubt there! But all I can do is do my best now. We started Power Math, the Singapore K Math review book, today and she likes it!

Brindee · April 25, 2009

But thank you ladies for your posts. Really. ALL of them have meant so much to me. I realized months ago that math was not my dd's strong point, and accepting this helped me really back off her. I guess, when I saw that little boy, I thought, Oh no! Should I NOT have backed off her? Would she be that smart now if I hadn't?! So it was a lot of self-doubt there!

A couple of things:

1) Your dd was 4 years old when you made that assessment. Really, you canNOT make that assessment now! Assuming she's not good at math could come across to her that she's not good at math, and you do NOT want to do that! It's really hard to tell some strengths and weaknesses at that age! Give her time to mature! Work with her equally in all points. If you push the math too much, then you'll have an overwhelmed dd, and a self-fulfilling prophecy: "See, I TOLD you she wasn't good in math!" No, give her time, encourage, but don't push!

20 About the boy and your comment "Would she be that smart....." I have a story to illustrate that. This school year I have been doing day care/K with a 5yo, just turned 6 girl from church. When her mom and dad came to see me about having the girl come here, the mom was telling me all the things this girl knew--"...the alphabet, numbers, counting to 10 is easy, and she sometimes counts farther", etc. Well, when I started working with this girl, come to find out, she could rattle off the numbers 1-10 and she could sing the ABC song, but it was all abstract to her. She had no clue what an a or b was, or what a number 8 was! She was just copying things she had heard and been taught. She didn't recognize the numbers or letters by sight at all. So, I started from nothing/scratch and worked up from there. We played games did little flashcards, had her put cards with letters or numbers in order, etc. now she knows they are concrete things. She understands what they mean. She can put letters together and sound them out to make words. This little boy could rattle off stuff. Does that mean he is smart? Or that he understands half of what he's saying? NO! Just some thoughts to ponder.

But all I can do is do my best now. We started Power Math, the Singapore K Math review book, today and she likes it!

Please don't overdo it! As someone else said, these things average out. It's the same with reading. When these kids turn 10 years old, you will not be able to point a finger at them and say, "That one didn't read until he was 8. That one didn't know how to skip count until she was 7, and so on." No, IT WILL ALL EVEN OUT! Pushing a little one to meet some "deadline" that has been randomly set somewhere is NOT a good thing to do! You've GOT to be your own person (not your mom's puppet), and raise your dd to be able to work with her strengths and weaknesses at her level and feel good about her getting a strong base to build on as she gets further and further along in her schooling.

This little one is barely 5! Where is her ability to be a kid? You do realize she has lots and lots of years coming along where she will HAVE to do schoolwork? Why push it so hard now? Often when you let the kid go at their pace (with guided encouragement but not pushing) they suddenly catch on and move forward at an amazing pace! They'll end up at, or even possibly past, the level of the child who has been pushed to do schoolwork from a young age! IT'S TRUE and has been shown many times! Allowing a child to be more relaxed and happy and do fun educational type things is great, and helps them appreciate and look forward to learning more!

Now that you realize your mom is manipulating you, you need to stand up and let her know that it's your turn now, these are your children and YOU, as the mom, are the one that makes the decisions about how they're raised! Then stick to your guns! I know, easier said than done! But still, this is your childrens' future here, so it's worth standing up for their sakes!

This is all points to ponder that you may not have had a chance to think through. Just think about them and draw your conclusions of what you think is best. After 11 years of homeschooling this is what I've seen to prove true over and over again!

Lovedtodeath · April 25, 2009

I could not read one word until I was almost 7. I went to K and it made no sense to me. I was reading at a college level per testing, adult books for pleasure, and taking an adult photography class at 10 years old.

Children will learn and progress and excel without it being taught so early.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

hi_itsgwen · April 25, 2009

I just wanted to pitch my pennies into the pot.

Re: Children learning good behaviour in ps:

My son is very active, but a good kid. He started pre-K and became VERY frustrated with everything. He was coming home and having horrible days. His teachers were very sweet, and said he was a good kid in class. ANd he couldn't verbalize anything that was bothering him. I went in one day to help out (a party or something). The teacher said "It's circle time...come find your place on the rug." I started gently gathering up the littles from their play centers. One child didn't seem to have any intention of obeying, so I *gently* held his hand and was walking him over. The teacher's eyes got as big as teacups, and she said "Oh, NO. We don't touch little Damien*. He's allowed to do whatever he wants. He has 'special needs'." So Damien sneers at me, and proceeds to clear all the blocks off the shelf, shove all the books off of the bookshelf, and then starts running the water fountain and splashing the water at the rest of the class, who were trying to politely particpate in circle time. I am NOT kidding. And there were 3 boys like this in the classroom. The rest of the classmates were called down and disciplined (time outs) for wrong behavior. I instantly realized where his frustration was coming from, and withdrew my son from the program. Sheesh! Lessons learned: Socialization swings both ways. Sweet teachers can be completely ineffective.

*actual names have been changed to protect the not-so-innocent.

Re: Math Whiz vs. :blink:

My son could casually do math as a toddler (I asked my daughter to set the table and he said, "Sister, you get 2 spoons, and I'll get 2 spoons"). My daughter is a wonderful writer, and very verbal, but struggles with abstract ideas like numbers. She has had to mature to a point where her mind can really 'get' the concepts. Lesson learned: Kids minds are wired totally differently. She'll get it eventually, with gently repetition. It's better (and she'll get further) if you both enjoy the ride.

Re: Grandparent Insanity:

I am convinced that there is something in the face of a grandchild that makes a Grandparent totally lose their minds. When I was growing up, my Mom made us choke down vita-shakes that tasted like frothy potting soil, and wouldn't let us touch sugar. Fast forward to the first grandchild: she is pulling suckers out of her purse that are larger in circumference that the child's head. Grandparent insanity does not leak into any other areas of the person's personal or professional life. It does however taint their fasion sense, as they are totally willing to go out in public wearing sweatshirts that my kids make*. :D

Originally Posted by MitchellMom

I am terrified of confronting her!... Maybe if I just never talk about homeschooling again?

My relationship with my MIL sounds a lot like yours with you Mom. She is a somewhat strange bird, who likes to say things right to my face, and drop rude comments around just to prove her superiority.

When we announced our 3rd pregnancy, she said "How in the world are you going to raise 3 kids in a house that size." To which I replied "What size house did you raise your 3 kids in? ":D

For a while, we were both operating under the principle that she was dh's authority (parent) and therefore, she trumped my authority over my own kids. She was notorious for saying 'Well, they may have to do that at home, but this is Grandma's house.' She would let my dd wake up at any time of the morning (4:30!!!!) and get up, eat breakfast and watch cartoons. My kids had her wrapped around their fingers, and were HORRID when they came home. Grandma was also under the impression that all cartoons were for kids (cue Beavis and Butthead music).

So, I decided that it was worth it to me, for the sake of my kids, to start operating under a different perspective. My kids, my rules...no matter what...no matter where. But I had seen some very unfortunate exchanges, that left deep and un-necessary scars, due to a communication style where the person lays down and takes it until they get so ANGRY that they explode. I wanted a peaceful coup that dh and I could both 'get behind'.

So hubby and I made a lovely, laminated chart of my kids rules. These included:

-suggested bed (and rising) times.

-basic house rules (no running, jumping or peeing anywhere except the toilet...basic stuff)

-suggested punishments or consequences

-food guidelines (dinner BEFORE dessert, 2 bites rule, listed foods they really didn't care for, etc.)

-what they can/can't watch, and how long they can watch.

There was a very sweet paragraph at the top about how much we love them, and appreciate their unique influence in our children's lives.

I went over these expectations with my kids. They were pretty crushed as Grandmother was so willing to obey their whims. So I secretly made a candy pact with each one to tattle on the other if they broke the rules. OK...just kidding. :D They told on each other & Grandma with no candy bribery involved.

I made a chart for both sets of Grandparents, just to keep things fair. Then, at our next family visit, I presented my 'gift.' She turned red in the face. She showed it to Grandaddy (who looked slightly amused and relieved). She posted it on the fridge. She hissed and snubbed me soundly. I ignored it, and enjoyed my kids. We didn't visit for a while after that, as the atmosphere had chilled considerably.

Then, eventually, when she started warming back up, we visited more often as a family. When we could see that she was making an effort, we began to leave the kids with them again. She has totally changed her tune now. She knows the kids will tell on her as soon as we walk in. :D

We've just recently announced that we'll be homeschooling next year. She is not pleased. And I could care less. She'll eventually see the light...or not. I put on big girl panties every morning, and run with what my own convictions are.

Lesson learned: I want full ownership over my own regrets and triumphs in my journey of parenthood. When my kids are grown, they will make different parenting choices that I have, and I will enjoy and respect that with my grandkids.

*for the record, ugly homemade sweatshirts are my secret and underhanded method of 'getting even'.

Edited April 25, 2009 by hi_itsgwen

Academy of Jedi Arts · April 25, 2009

As someone else said, these things average out. It's the same with reading. When these kids turn 10 years old, you will not be able to point a finger at them and say, "That one didn't read until he was 8. That one didn't know how to skip count until she was 7, and so on." No, IT WILL ALL EVEN OUT! Pushing a little one to meet some "deadline" that has been randomly set somewhere is NOT a good thing to do!

It's not true that all kids will even out. Kids will eventually even out with those of similar intelligence, but not all with each other. There are kids doing college level work at 10 and others happily still in elementary school. I totally agree with it not being a good idea to push kids to meet certain milestones though.

This has been a test of the gifted education emergency broadcast system. Regular programming will now resume. :tongue_smilie:

Oh no! Should I NOT have backed off her? Would she be that smart now if I hadn't?!

Smart does not equal how much knowledge one has obtained from a book. I could teach just about any 4 year old of average intelligence to read a little and do basic math.

What I think is most important for little kids is to help them on the road to discovering their own kind of smart. Maybe it's academics. Maybe it's athletics. Maybe it's music or the arts. The more little kids are able to explore, the more chances they have to find things they can be passionate about. And as kids, those passions can grow and change just as the kids grow and change.

So if your dd is bringing you math workbooks and begging you to do them, that's fabulous. But if the math workbooks are getting in the way of her being able to do other things that interest her more, put them away. I'm not saying don't have math time every day. I'm just saying that math time should be enjoyable for both of you.

Making decisions out of fear rarely results in the best decisions being made.

Brindee · April 26, 2009

It's not true that all kids will even out. Kids will eventually even out with those of similar intelligence, but not all with each other. There are kids doing college level work at 10 and others happily still in elementary school. I totally agree with it not being a good idea to push kids to meet certain milestones though.

What I was thinking in my head as I wrote that was that pushing them at 4 yo to do more and more so they'll be smarter than, or at least as smart as, other kids often does not work in the long-run. There may be immediate results that are prmising, but I know kids who were burned out by age 8 or 9 or in high-school because of being pushed to study and do more, and not have time to be kids. I meant in general by age 10 you can't tell the kids who read at 3 or those who read at 8, so pushing them too much isn't neccessarily the answer. Did that make sense? :tongue_smilie:

Smart does not equal how much knowledge one has obtained from a book. I could teach just about any 4 year old of average intelligence to read a little and do basic math.

What I think is most important for little kids is to help them on the road to discovering their own kind of smart. Maybe it's academics. Maybe it's athletics. Maybe it's music or the arts. The more little kids are able to explore, the more chances they have to find things they can be passionate about. And as kids, those passions can grow and change just as the kids grow and change.

So if your dd is bringing you math workbooks and begging you to do them, that's fabulous. But if the math workbooks are getting in the way of her being able to do other things that interest her more, put them away. I'm not saying don't have math time every day. I'm just saying that math time should be enjoyable for both of you.

Making decisions out of fear rarely results in the best decisions being made.

:iagree: You say things more clearly than I do! :001_smile:

Academy of Jedi Arts · April 26, 2009

What I was thinking in my head as I wrote that was that pushing them at 4 yo to do more and more so they'll be smarter than, or at least as smart as, other kids often does not work in the long-run. There may be immediate results that are prmising, but I know kids who were burned out by age 8 or 9 or in high-school because of being pushed to study and do more, and not have time to be kids. I meant in general by age 10 you can't tell the kids who read at 3 or those who read at 8, so pushing them too much isn't neccessarily the answer. Did that make sense? :tongue_smilie:

Makes perfect sense. I just know that sometimes there are parents out there with gifted students who are very very confused as to what to do. They start to wonder if their kid really is going to level out like everyone says and they don't really need to do anything special. Some even deny a child appropriate work because what the child is doing naturally would be considered pushing for a typical child.

Then there are parents who see a gifted child and think the parents have some secret magic formula for teaching them. They feel if their child could just get that magic formula, they could be doing the same things. This often is what leads to the pushing and the early burn out.

my4boysmom · April 26, 2009

That's nice of you to say, but today I took dd to Kindergarten Registration at that charter school, *just because I wanted to see what it was like.* My daughter can read and write, but math is her weakness. She can count a little past 30 but even recognizing the difference between 12 and 21 can stump her on bad days. We are going to work through an entire Singapore K math review between now and the baby's birth b/c I just feel like she needs all that information gone over again before she's ready for the first grade curriculum. Anyway, back to the registration, there was a little boy who counted to 100 AND counted by 10s to 100! Listening to him, I felt like I have been failing my daughter! She can't count that way. :( That's when I thought, Should I send her here, after all, so they can teach her in a way that I might cannot?

NAAAhhhh.... I would use a different curriculum for math. She will be bored in K and you may find her acting out due to that fact. The habits kids learn in PS is never good. I speak from experience. We have done charter schools but really you could coop with another family and get a better result. I'll share my story. My 9 year old is learning to read for the first time and he's in 4th grade. He's dyslexic and is in lower grade level for everything. You are ahead of the game believe me. I'm glad I didn't push the reading because if I had I wouldn't be getting the success that I'm getting now.

I think you son feels the tension in grandma and that is why you are getting the behavior there. My younger two boys use to torture my mom. lol

April 27, 2009

You really think that is socialization?... That's good to know because I do plan to have them help me! I will be taking them both to a morning preschool two mornings a week in the fall, just for time to play with other children, since if I rely on myself to schedule it, I'll never do it! Right now, the only real social setting they get - other than the mall and grocery store - is weekly Sunday School classs.

How can 3 siblings quite close in age NOT be socialized? Getting along with a tired mom and 2 siblings of different ages is much more real-life socializing than hanging out all day with age-peers. And there are so many people at the mall and the grocery store - often interesting people doing interesting things, like cleaning the food court, or changing store displays, or walking around in security guard uniforms, or sorting produce, or cutting meat, or even driving around in a wheelchair, or walking with a Working Dog ... SO much to see at the mall and grocery store! You'd be amazed how many people absolutely love to have a young child stop and ask them about themselves.

Mommy22alyns · April 27, 2009

That's nice of you to say, but today I took dd to Kindergarten Registration at that charter school, *just because I wanted to see what it was like.* My daughter can read and write, but math is her weakness. She can count a little past 30 but even recognizing the difference between 12 and 21 can stump her on bad days. We are going to work through an entire Singapore K math review between now and the baby's birth b/c I just feel like she needs all that information gone over again before she's ready for the first grade curriculum. Anyway, back to the registration, there was a little boy who counted to 100 AND counted by 10s to 100! Listening to him, I felt like I have been failing my daughter! She can't count that way. :( That's when I thought, Should I send her here, after all, so they can teach her in a way that I might cannot?

Jessie, quit torturing yourself! :tongue_smilie:

Here's a giant \/\/ - W for what.ever. She did just turn 5. What's wrong with going back through a K math review or curriculum? Better to go over it and get a firm, solid grounding NOW than realize you've built a house of cards when she's 9 and trying to get to more advanced math principles.

Kids can be asynchronous. Any kid can, most kids are to some degree, but it can be very pronounced in advanced learners (and thank you for the GEEBS announcement, Jedi!). You are homeschooling - therefore, you have the freedom to do first grade language arts and kindergarten math. Live dangerously! (It's a joke. Well, laugh!)

Becca is a language arts lover but does not exhibit the same degree of advancement in math. I definitely have my moments of frustration and you can PM me anytime if you want to vent about it. :)

Like I said before - you've been doing great. Don't let your mom drag you down.

jeh · April 28, 2009

Be strong... U can do it! Do you REALLY believe that a large group of 3 year olds is going to teach your 3 yr. old to have better behavior? I have yet to see it!! You just have a little boy with lots of energy! I am sure you will hear from many of us who have hsed through several newborns. Maintain your relaxed attitude and it will work out just fine!

(Everyone gets stressed sometimes!)

MitchellMom · April 28, 2009

A couple of things:
1) Your dd was 4 years old when you made that assessment. Really, you canNOT make that assessment now! Assuming she's not good at math could come across to her that she's not good at math, and you do NOT want to do that! It's really hard to tell some strengths and weaknesses at that age! Give her time to mature! Work with her equally in all points. If you push the math too much, then you'll have an overwhelmed dd, and a self-fulfilling prophecy: "See, I TOLD you she wasn't good in math!" No, give her time, encourage, but don't push!

20 About the boy and your comment "Would she be that smart....." I have a story to illustrate that. This school year I have been doing day care/K with a 5yo, just turned 6 girl from church. When her mom and dad came to see me about having the girl come here, the mom was telling me all the things this girl knew--"...the alphabet, numbers, counting to 10 is easy, and she sometimes counts farther", etc. Well, when I started working with this girl, come to find out, she could rattle off the numbers 1-10 and she could sing the ABC song, but it was all abstract to her. She had no clue what an a or b was, or what a number 8 was! She was just copying things she had heard and been taught. She didn't recognize the numbers or letters by sight at all. So, I started from nothing/scratch and worked up from there. We played games did little flashcards, had her put cards with letters or numbers in order, etc. now she knows they are concrete things. She understands what they mean. She can put letters together and sound them out to make words. This little boy could rattle off stuff. Does that mean he is smart? Or that he understands half of what he's saying? NO! Just some thoughts to ponder.

Please don't overdo it! As someone else said, these things average out. It's the same with reading. When these kids turn 10 years old, you will not be able to point a finger at them and say, "That one didn't read until he was 8. That one didn't know how to skip count until she was 7, and so on." No, IT WILL ALL EVEN OUT! Pushing a little one to meet some "deadline" that has been randomly set somewhere is NOT a good thing to do! You've GOT to be your own person (not your mom's puppet), and raise your dd to be able to work with her strengths and weaknesses at her level and feel good about her getting a strong base to build on as she gets further and further along in her schooling.

This little one is barely 5! Where is her ability to be a kid? You do realize she has lots and lots of years coming along where she will HAVE to do schoolwork? Why push it so hard now? Often when you let the kid go at their pace (with guided encouragement but not pushing) they suddenly catch on and move forward at an amazing pace! They'll end up at, or even possibly past, the level of the child who has been pushed to do schoolwork from a young age! IT'S TRUE and has been shown many times! Allowing a child to be more relaxed and happy and do fun educational type things is great, and helps them appreciate and look forward to learning more!

Now that you realize your mom is manipulating you, you need to stand up and let her know that it's your turn now, these are your children and YOU, as the mom, are the one that makes the decisions about how they're raised! Then stick to your guns! I know, easier said than done! But still, this is your childrens' future here, so it's worth standing up for their sakes!

This is all points to ponder that you may not have had a chance to think through. Just think about them and draw your conclusions of what you think is best. After 11 years of homeschooling this is what I've seen to prove true over and over again!

I definitely don't want that to happen! (the part in bold)

I just wanted to pitch my pennies into the pot.

Re: Children learning good behaviour in ps:

My son is very active, but a good kid. He started pre-K and became VERY frustrated with everything. He was coming home and having horrible days. His teachers were very sweet, and said he was a good kid in class. ANd he couldn't verbalize anything that was bothering him. I went in one day to help out (a party or something). The teacher said "It's circle time...come find your place on the rug." I started gently gathering up the littles from their play centers. One child didn't seem to have any intention of obeying, so I *gently* held his hand and was walking him over. The teacher's eyes got as big as teacups, and she said "Oh, NO. We don't touch little Damien*. He's allowed to do whatever he wants. He has 'special needs'." So Damien sneers at me, and proceeds to clear all the blocks off the shelf, shove all the books off of the bookshelf, and then starts running the water fountain and splashing the water at the rest of the class, who were trying to politely particpate in circle time. I am NOT kidding. And there were 3 boys like this in the classroom. The rest of the classmates were called down and disciplined (time outs) for wrong behavior. I instantly realized where his frustration was coming from, and withdrew my son from the program. Sheesh! Lessons learned: Socialization swings both ways. Sweet teachers can be completely ineffective.

*actual names have been changed to protect the not-so-innocent.

Re: Math Whiz vs. :blink:

My son could casually do math as a toddler (I asked my daughter to set the table and he said, "Sister, you get 2 spoons, and I'll get 2 spoons"). My daughter is a wonderful writer, and very verbal, but struggles with abstract ideas like numbers. She has had to mature to a point where her mind can really 'get' the concepts. Lesson learned: Kids minds are wired totally differently. She'll get it eventually, with gently repetition. It's better (and she'll get further) if you both enjoy the ride.

I love this last line - I copied it down and am going to keep it at my desk! Thank you!

The preschool story sounds familiar, though my experience is not as bad. I kept my dd in a public pre-K for 7 months and my ds in there for about 3/5 months. The teachers did not maintain enough control over the classroom and were a little too lenient, and my children were acting the way those children acted. I know I've told this before, so I apologize for repeating myself. But my mom thinks they need to be around these kids. NO thank you!!! I think my mom even thinks I am being a snob about it, which hurts my feelings, but it is not that I think my family is better than anyone else's - not at all. I just don't want my children around children who misbehave terribly! :(

I enjoyed reading about your relationship w/ your MIL! Whoa!!!

Jessie, quit torturing yourself! :tongue_smilie:

Here's a giant \/\/ - W for what.ever. She did just turn 5. What's wrong with going back through a K math review or curriculum? Better to go over it and get a firm, solid grounding NOW than realize you've built a house of cards when she's 9 and trying to get to more advanced math principles.

Kids can be asynchronous. Any kid can, most kids are to some degree, but it can be very pronounced in advanced learners (and thank you for the GEEBS announcement, Jedi!). You are homeschooling - therefore, you have the freedom to do first grade language arts and kindergarten math. Live dangerously! (It's a joke. Well, laugh!)

Becca is a language arts lover but does not exhibit the same degree of advancement in math. I definitely have my moments of frustration and you can PM me anytime if you want to vent about it. :)

Like I said before - you've been doing great. Don't let your mom drag you down.

Thank you for the encouragement. :)

The Well-Trained Mind Extended Guide

Feeling sad - Mom said she doesn't think I can homeschool :(

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