Really Angry! (Crappy Attitudes @ Church) CC

[eight_gregorys]

Okay, I'm SO mad about somethings that were said yesterday after church.

 

Here's the background info:

 

We've been going to this church for a year. We like the congregation, they are good people. However, we have really been having issues with both pastors of the church recently. My husband has had to step down from some of his leadership responsibilities as of late because he has been working a lot of hours at work and he works an hour and thirty minutes away (one way). So he leaves at 7 a.m. and we don't see him until 7:00 p.m. every night. He barely has time to see our children during the week. He didn't just abandon his ministry. He trained others to take over the task. Now those who took over aren't doing as good a job as DH so both pastors angry with him. :glare:

 

Then the pastor's wife asked me 2 weeks ago if I was just going to quit working in my ministry position as well. Yesterday, service was supposed to be @ 10:30 so my DH and I get there at 10:00 because he had committed to setting up all the equipment for service since it was at a different location. When we get there at 10:00, everything is set up and then we are told that service doesn't actually start until 11:00. So my DH asked why the flyers said 10:30. The pastor told us that they put 10:30 because he didn't want everyone coming in late. We have six chlidren and sitting around waiting for an hour for service is just plain unacceptable. (Our children are good kids, but when they are going to be doing nothing for an hour...I need to be prepared.)

 

So after all this, we sit down to discuss this with Pastor. We were told we weren't allowed to frustrated with the service time because we didn't help with anything. :001_huh: I about blew my top at this point and excused myself because I knew nothing good was going to come out of my mouth next.

 

I know these are little things, but all these little things have been building up for months and I'm just plain annoyed. DH and I shouldn't be chastized for not having the time to do more at church. We do the very best we can to help out with things, but I'm not willing to let it suck the life out of our family. I'm just furious. Both pastors and are full-time and paid by the church. (The wives aren't paid staff, but they don't work outside the home.) So I just don't understand the attitudes. I do help with pastor's children when they are doing things for church so it really just seems like they are very ungrateful sometimes.

 

So what do you guys think? Am I being petty or too sensitive?

 

Thanks for listening to the babbling.

 

Blessings,

 

Andrea

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think that your priorities need to be: God first (as in your personal relationship to him), Family, Work (to support your family), Church activities. Now in real life some of these might get out of order legitimately for short bursts of time. But overall, this should be the order. And I don't know if I can put this in a word picture that is understandable: The 'God first' part is like a blanket that lays over all your other priorities - touching everything.

 

I think your dh is absolutely correct to back away from his church responsibilities to take care of his family and work.

 

Do you get good teaching at this church? This is number one in my priority list for a "good church". Is the teaching legalistic? This attitude toward your husband's need to back off from his responsibilities sounds legalistic.

 

You might need to find a new church. But first, I would counsel you to lay all this at God's feet. And I would ask Him to remove any root of bitterness from your heart. Because whether you stay or leave, bitterness will eat away at you.

[Vida Winter]

I think you've got too much going on to be able to volunteer for these extra activities. I'd resign from those types of things and help out on a more occasional basis. If they give you a hard time about it, consider changing churches. All that garbage is not what church is about.

[PineFarmMom]

So what do you guys think? Am I being petty or too sensitive?

 

Thanks for listening to the babbling.

 

Blessings,

 

Andrea

 

I think that often, not always, paid pastors do forget what challenges the working person have to deal with. We had some of this at a church we were at.

 

Isaiah 51:7 says, "Listen to me, you who know what is right, you people who have my law in your hearts, do not fear the reproach of men or be terrified of their insults."

 

I know that that verse is not totally in context, but God highlighted it to me one day and it was like balm to my soul.

 

God has had to use that particular scripture on me many times when I'm stepping outside of His perfect will in order to please others, especially in the church setting.

 

1st, I'd ask what God has asked you and your dh to do. Get clear for sure that you have followed Him. If your dh is working the kinds of hours he's working and not able to spend time with his family, then it seems pretty obvious. I think the Christian life works outwards, like it starts in our hearts, then to our marriage and family, then outside the home. It's not a thing that we serve others first then take care of our families and our own walk. After you know what God wants YOUR family to do, then you need to obey Him and lay that out for the pastors, with or without their blessings. It sounds like they aren't trusting God with the church. If they continue to be ugly about it, you'll either have to pray that God help you to handle it well and that God lead them to see truth OR you may want to look elsewhere.

 

I can't tell you how often I've stepped out and done ministry extras strictly to get approval from man (usually not knowing I was doing it), when God didn't want me to do it in the first place. I'm in a situation right now, leading the children at a very small church, where people are angry with me for not doing extra services and things throughout the week other than Sunday morning, but none of them are willing to help. It would be me, all alone. I have had to follow God's leading on this and not try to please them but pray through it and know what HE is telling me to do...thank goodness the pastor is completely with me on this!

 

I would be irritated also!!

 

Teresa

[elegantlion]

The thing that stands out to me is that your church thinks it's okay to lie about a service time because they don't trust people to get there on time. :glare: As a parent, member, or guest I would be more than miffed if I scrambled to get there on time and had to wait around for service to start.

 

Having served previously in a ministry that required us to be there at 7:30am for a 9am service I totally understand about dealing with children for even another 30 minutes.

 

Like Jean suggested I would pray and seek whether this is even the right authority for you to be under.

[eight_gregorys]

Thank you for all your wise advice. I know all this frustration needs to go to God. My husband and I both prayed about him leaving his position at the church long before it happened and know that this is God's calling for the time being. I'm a people-pleaser and I need to just get over others being angry at our decision. I just find it really hard when it really seems like grown people feel the need to be petty and just plain rude. I'm going to spend some time in prayer this afternoon.

 

Thanks so much,

 

Andrea

[unsinkable]

The thing that stands out to me is that your church thinks it's okay to lie about a service time because they don't trust people to get there on time. :glare: As a parent, member, or guest I would be more than miffed if I scrambled to get there on time and had to wait around for service to start.

 

Having served previously in a ministry that required us to be there at 7:30am for a 9am service I totally understand about dealing with children for even another 30 minutes.

 

Like Jean suggested I would pray and seek whether this is even the right authority for you to be under.

 

As a Roman Catholic, this made my jaw drop. Mass times are set in stone and when they change it is a very.big.deal.

 

(Big deal because people set their schedules around the times...for years. People choose to go to certain masses because of choirs and friendships and meals and time of day, etc. When mass times change, it can really throw you.)

[Rebecca in GA]

Andrea, your family is your first and most important ministry. Best of luck to you and your DH sorting this out, but please stay strong. :grouphug:

[Rosy]

I've been in a position before where more was expected of my husband and me than we were comfortable giving. It's hard. It's also hard to be the pastor and see how much work needs to be done and need help. However, I believe these verses apply in your situation:

1(A)Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your (B)fellow elder and (C)witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a (D)partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, 2shepherd (E)the flock of God among you, exercising oversight (F)not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and (G)not for sordid gain, but with eagerness;

3nor yet as (H)lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be (I)examples to the flock.

 

 

I do think you have an obligation to make peace with them, as much as is possible on your side. I would schedule a meeting and say something to the effect of "It seems like a root of bitterness has come up between us. I can see that we have disappointed you by stepping out of our position as xxx. What can we do to restore this relationship?" It should be very clear at that point whether they have any interest in you guys beyond what you can do for the church.

[OnTheBrink]

Frankly, I'd not trust a church leadership that lied and manipulated to get people there when they want them there. That alone would set me off, but trust is a HUGE issue for me.

 

And, I agree: family comes before church activities. I think any church that doesn't hold to that has it wrong. JMO, etc.

[Pajama Mama]

It is strange for them to change their times. Most churches have the same time-all the time. If not, how would folks know when to arrive? Is it 10:00, 10:30 or 11:00? I would be highly annoyed to arrive with children and find the time pushed back by an hour. I have honestly never heard of a church doing that.

 

They don't seem to appreciate all that you and your dh do for them. I know it's difficult to look for another church but you may be happier elsewhere. I'm sure another church would appreciate your help.

[lapsetmom]

First of all, I agree with the poster that said to try to make peace, but you need to also humbly approach those in leadership about the lying and manipulation (guilting) assuming this is a recurring problem. Any church that uses these evil techniques to build a church are not really doing the Lord's work. God will never build his church through guilting people into serving him, lying to get people there on time, and putting church activities before a family's most important God-given responsibilities. The Holy Spirit leads through peace, loving conviction, and truth--not lying, guilt, and manipulation. If they do not repent and change their ways, then you might consider going elsewhere.

[LMA]

Okay, I'm SO mad about somethings that were said yesterday after church.

 

Here's the background info:

 

We've been going to this church for a year. We like the congregation, they are good people. However, we have really been having issues with both pastors of the church recently. My husband has had to step down from some of his leadership responsibilities as of late because he has been working a lot of hours at work and he works an hour and thirty minutes away (one way). So he leaves at 7 a.m. and we don't see him until 7:00 p.m. every night. He barely has time to see our children during the week. He didn't just abandon his ministry. He trained others to take over the task. Now those who took over aren't doing as good a job as DH so both pastors angry with him. :glare:

 

Then the pastor's wife asked me 2 weeks ago if I was just going to quit working in my ministry position as well. Yesterday, service was supposed to be @ 10:30 so my DH and I get there at 10:00 because he had committed to setting up all the equipment for service since it was at a different location. When we get there at 10:00, everything is set up and then we are told that service doesn't actually start until 11:00. So my DH asked why the flyers said 10:30. The pastor told us that they put 10:30 because he didn't want everyone coming in late. We have six chlidren and sitting around waiting for an hour for service is just plain unacceptable. (Our children are good kids, but when they are going to be doing nothing for an hour...I need to be prepared.)

 

So after all this, we sit down to discuss this with Pastor. We were told we weren't allowed to frustrated with the service time because we didn't help with anything. :001_huh: I about blew my top at this point and excused myself because I knew nothing good was going to come out of my mouth next.

 

I know these are little things, but all these little things have been building up for months and I'm just plain annoyed. DH and I shouldn't be chastized for not having the time to do more at church. We do the very best we can to help out with things, but I'm not willing to let it suck the life out of our family. I'm just furious. Both pastors and are full-time and paid by the church. (The wives aren't paid staff, but they don't work outside the home.) So I just don't understand the attitudes. I do help with pastor's children when they are doing things for church so it really just seems like they are very ungrateful sometimes.

 

So what do you guys think? Am I being petty or too sensitive?

 

Thanks for listening to the babbling.

 

Blessings,

 

Andrea

It all sounds rather bizarre to me. This is more than just petty things.

 

In reference to the post your husband left, why doesn't the pastor help the new replacements do a better job?

 

It's bad planning to put down 10:30 on a flyer when you are starting the service at 11. It is the usual custom to put down the time when the event happens.

 

Does the pastor's comment to you about not helping mean that the 80% or so of the church that don't help can't say anything about what goes on at the church? He doesn't seem to value membership of the church.

 

These are all red flags. I am someone who votes with her feet and money and move on. Being a Christian doesn't mean you have to take this kind of treatment by the pastor or anyone else.

[Chris in VA]

God will not bless a lie. Get out of dodge and pray for them to come to their senses.

Ridiculous.

 

Chris (priest's wife for 21 years)

[Erica in PA]

Okay, I'm SO mad about somethings that were said yesterday after church.

 

Here's the background info:

 

We've been going to this church for a year. We like the congregation, they are good people. However, we have really been having issues with both pastors of the church recently. My husband has had to step down from some of his leadership responsibilities as of late because he has been working a lot of hours at work and he works an hour and thirty minutes away (one way). So he leaves at 7 a.m. and we don't see him until 7:00 p.m. every night. He barely has time to see our children during the week. He didn't just abandon his ministry. He trained others to take over the task. Now those who took over aren't doing as good a job as DH so both pastors angry with him. :glare:

 

Then the pastor's wife asked me 2 weeks ago if I was just going to quit working in my ministry position as well. Yesterday, service was supposed to be @ 10:30 so my DH and I get there at 10:00 because he had committed to setting up all the equipment for service since it was at a different location. When we get there at 10:00, everything is set up and then we are told that service doesn't actually start until 11:00. So my DH asked why the flyers said 10:30. The pastor told us that they put 10:30 because he didn't want everyone coming in late. We have six chlidren and sitting around waiting for an hour for service is just plain unacceptable. (Our children are good kids, but when they are going to be doing nothing for an hour...I need to be prepared.)

 

So after all this, we sit down to discuss this with Pastor. We were told we weren't allowed to frustrated with the service time because we didn't help with anything. :001_huh: I about blew my top at this point and excused myself because I knew nothing good was going to come out of my mouth next.

 

I know these are little things, but all these little things have been building up for months and I'm just plain annoyed. DH and I shouldn't be chastized for not having the time to do more at church. We do the very best we can to help out with things, but I'm not willing to let it suck the life out of our family. I'm just furious. Both pastors and are full-time and paid by the church. (The wives aren't paid staff, but they don't work outside the home.) So I just don't understand the attitudes. I do help with pastor's children when they are doing things for church so it really just seems like they are very ungrateful sometimes.

 

So what do you guys think? Am I being petty or too sensitive?

 

Thanks for listening to the babbling.

 

Blessings,

 

Andrea

 

I would recommend both you and your dh taking some time to pray about the situation and think it over. Then come back together and discuss what you should do next. I encourage you to carefully, purposefully steer clear of acting in haste, or harboring hard feelings toward these individuals. If you feel yourself going in that direction, pray, and He will help you. Remembering all the many things that God has forgiven me for, when I was His *enemy*, helps me to be more tolerant and forgiving when I've been wronged.

[Tap]

I have a side question...

 

Has another path been set before you, that working in the church is preventing you to go down?

 

I ask this because it seems like sometimes God first offers us a choice about our paths in life. If He is intent on us going down a certain path, he will at first give us little nudges, and then they get bigger, and bigger, until we finally relinquish our will to Him. Once we change our path, the peace of our lives come back, and we can see, in hindsight, why we needed to follow the new path.

 

Sometimes it is about us....and sometimes it is about the person who takes on our old role.

 

 

 

Many churches forget that they have many people within the congregation who wish to fulfil leadership roles. And it isn't until a new position comes available, that the new leaders are able to give their unique gifts to the church. At least one church I know of purposefully has a 1-2 year limit on most positions within the church, unless someone has a huge gift for a position. They purposefully encourage other members of the congregation to fill leadership roles so they can 'mature' within the church, like a teenager maturing into a leadership role in a family.

 

 

It sounds to me that your family is ready for a break. Either for the short term, or for the long term. If I was no longer feeling the passion for a leadership role, then I would take it as a sign that it is time for me to follow a new path.

[forty-two]

The whole lying about the start time for the service is weird and inexcusable. Plus, you'd think they would be apologetic about the (presumed) miscommunication that resulted in your dh showing up to do a job that had already been done.

 

However, as a pastor's wife, I was struck by a few things in your post:

Now those who took over aren't doing as good a job as DH so both pastors angry with him.

Have they said this explicitly? Or is it possible that you might be projecting? I know when I was in college my pastor suddenly seemed to be a bit "off", a bit more distant, in how he talked/interacted with me. I immediately assumed he was mad at me for some unknown reason. I was a chicken, and didn't say anything for weeks, just suffered in silence; finally mentioned it to dh (then fiance), who mentioned it to the pastor. Turned out to have nothing to do with me - he was stressed for reasons entirely unrelated to me, and it was spilling over a bit. The pastor was glad to know about it - he hadn't realized his stress was bleeding through. So don't assume they are mad at you unless they've made it abundantly clear.

 

(The wives aren't paid staff, but they don't work outside the home.)

It kinda sounds like you have the same expectations of the pastors' wives that they seem to have of you and your dh: that the church and church work comes ahead of everything else. The only requirement of a pastor's wife is to support the pastor, just like any other wife supports her dh. Having a paid pastor who is married is not a two-for-one deal: "But wait, there's more! If you hire the married pastor, we'll throw in his wife for free! Organ playing, church cleaning, Sunday school teaching, choir leading, and more! All for the salary of one!" Just b/c the wives don't work outside the home doesn't mean they are freely available for any and all church work any more than it would be for you or any other member of the church. Give them the courtesy of the same expectations that you want them to have for you.

 

(It does sound like your church has issues. They should accept whatever level of commitment you can give without guilt-tripping you. But sometimes the hearer perceives a guilt-trip that the speaker never intended. No idea if that is the case here or not.)

[Ellie]

These are not "little things." I don't blame you one smidgeon for being angry.

 

What do you think you'll do?

[mommaduck]

Frankly, I'd not trust a church leadership that lied and manipulated to get people there when they want them there. That alone would set me off, but trust is a HUGE issue for me.

 

And, I agree: family comes before church activities. I think any church that doesn't hold to that has it wrong. JMO, etc.

:iagree:

[T'smom]

The only requirement of a pastor's wife is to support the pastor, just like any other wife supports her dh. Having a paid pastor who is married is not a two-for-one deal: "But wait, there's more! If you hire the married pastor, we'll throw in his wife for free! Organ playing, church cleaning, Sunday school teaching, choir leading, and more! All for the salary of one!" Just b/c the wives don't work outside the home doesn't mean they are freely available for any and all church work any more than it would be for you or any other member of the church.

 

 

AMEN!!!!! :iagree::iagree::iagree:

[gardening momma]

The thing that stands out to me is that your church thinks it's okay to lie about a service time because they don't trust people to get there on time. :glare: As a parent, member, or guest I would be more than miffed if I scrambled to get there on time and had to wait around for service to start.

One problem with not starting when you said you would is that eventually you'll have people coming in later and later, because they know things don't start on time. Then you start waiting to start until enough people get there, and then you never get started on time, so people know they don't have to get there "on time" because things don't start right away anyway...and on and on.... (I've seen it, but with Sunday School, not a church service).

 

But on the other hand, if you need to get people to start getting there on time (like in this instance where the pastor thought people wouldn't arrive on time if he said 11), what you need to do is start on time, so they know when they walk in that they're late and they missed part of it.

Edited April 14, 2009 by gardening momma

[Amber in SJ]

The lying about times for service is just weird.

 

I firmly believe that you will never accomplish the Lord's work using Satan's methods.

 

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Amber in SJ

[tex-mex]

I think that your priorities need to be: God first (as in your personal relationship to him), Family, Work (to support your family), Church activities. Now in real life some of these might get out of order legitimately for short bursts of time. But overall, this should be the order. And I don't know if I can put this in a word picture that is understandable: The 'God first' part is like a blanket that lays over all your other priorities - touching everything.

 

I think your dh is absolutely correct to back away from his church responsibilities to take care of his family and work.

 

Do you get good teaching at this church? This is number one in my priority list for a "good church". Is the teaching legalistic? This attitude toward your husband's need to back off from his responsibilities sounds legalistic.

 

You might need to find a new church. But first, I would counsel you to lay all this at God's feet. And I would ask Him to remove any root of bitterness from your heart. Because whether you stay or leave, bitterness will eat away at you.

 

:iagree: And I need to add... no matter where you attend... please realize the Pastors will never be "perfect". We all have flaws and rub each other the wrong way. Try to overlook the small stuff and if you are being fed and show fruit... stay and help others. If not, pray about where God wants you to go. Don't let the bitterness rob you of your joy or love of God. People will disappoint you -- but God will never disappoint.

[eight_gregorys]

Thanks to everyone who responded.

 

First, I wanted to apologize for the pastor's wife comment. It probably did sound hypocritical expecting that they do certain things just because of of their status. What I met was they are staff at the church...they are just unpaid. (DH and I are not on staff.....we are volunteers.) My husband was a associate pastor until he took a job in church marketing 8 months ago. So I totally understand the frustration there.

 

We received an apology from the pastor last night for the issues from Sunday. DH and I feel the same way many of you do about the lying and manipulation. It is just weird and very frustrating. Apology or not...it just isn't okay for a pastor to do that.

 

DH and I have decided to spend all week in prayer and ask for God's guidance in this. I appreciate all your responses and I hope all the pastors' wives will forgive me. :001_smile:

 

Blessings,

 

Andrea