s/o of blown trust in a marriage thread and divorce

[katemary63]

Good for you.

 

If one person has decided they're not going to work on the marriage, then you can do all you want to salvage it, but it's not going to work.

 

Here are my shoes. Go for a walk.

 

I understand and I do know I'm blessed. I just don't get it though. How do you go from wedding day to cheating? I think a lot of people just have priorities that come before their relationship and over time the relationship begins to die....I guess.......? We set out from the start with our RELATIONSHIP first in our lives and vowed never to waver from that. I don't know how people stay married any other way. That means that nothing I want and nothing he wants EVER comes before what is best for the RELATIONSHIP. The RELATIONSHIP is an entitiy all it's own.......like a delicate and fragile flower that we are both responsible to care for, nurture and protect AT ALL COSTS. We agreed on this BEFORE the wedding. I just don't think I would get married if that wasn't the case. I hope this doesn't come across as rude, honest,.....I'm just saying I can't imagine being in a different kind of relationship...

 

I am very sorry for your situation, I know nothing about it and who knows, "there but for the Grace of God go I".... And all kinds of things come along that we don't expect and everybody's lives are different. I am gratefull for my shoes.

Edited February 23, 2009 by katemary63

[Joanne]

We agreed on this BEFORE the wedding. I just don't think I would get married if that wasn't the case. I'm hope this doesn't come across as rude, honest,.....I'm just saying I can't imagine being in a different kind of relationship......what would be the point?

 

Not everyone is "there" when they chose their partner and marry.

 

In my case, I was at a very vulnerable junction point in life, naive and full of new hope for a new (sober, God lead) life. The *perfect* time for someone charming, intelligent and persuasive to find me.

[OnTheBrink]

I understand and I do know I'm blessed. I just don't get it though. How do you go from wedding day to cheating? I think a lot of people just have priorities that come before their relationship and over time the relationship begins to die....I guess.......? We set out from the start with our RELATIONSHIP first in our lives and vowed never to waver from that. I don't know how people stay married any other way. That means that nothing I want and nothing he wants EVER comes before what is best for the RELATIONSHIP. The RELATIONSHIP is an entitiy all it's own.......like a delicate and fragile flower that we are both responsible to care for, nurture and protect AT ALL COSTS. We agreed on this BEFORE the wedding. I just don't think I would get married if that wasn't the case. I hope this doesn't come across as rude, honest,.....I'm just saying I can't imagine being in a different kind of relationship......what would be the point?

 

I am very sorry for your situation, I know nothing about it and who knows, "there but for the Grace of God go I".... And all kinds of things come along that we don't expect and everybody's lives are different. I am gratefull for my shoes.

 

You're coming across as judgmental and lacking any sort of empathy. Sort of like telling someone who's hit bad financial times, "Golly, I have a million dollars in my savings account. I can't possibly imagine not having any money! If I saw my account dwindling, I'd do something about it!

 

Here's something for you to imagine: A devout Christian woman meets what appears to be a devout Christian man. He does and says all the right things. He reads the bible and is well-versed in Scripture. He attends church and Sunday school. He has all the appearances of a godly, devout man. Then one day, OOOPSIE! Some gay porn shows up on your computer. You confront it and he admits he'd been viewing it. You spend the next 7 years in counseling, doing everything you can to save your marriage, and he claims he is too, but yet, he isn't. He is continuing to carry on with men in hotels, at his office, at your home when you're away. So, during all this counseling, while he's continuing to profess repentance and sorrow, he's instead doing the exact opposite behind your back. Meanwhile, you've read every book written on how to be a better wife, do things better, be more supportive, more loving, more encouraging. And the marriage still fails. Can you come close to imagining such deception? Can you begin to wrap your head around the concept that BOTH people need to work on the relationship and if one isn't, it's going to fail? Can you possibly understand that some people are sociopathic liars? Do you get it now?

 

The "oh, I can't possibly imagine such a thing; you obviously didn't work on your marriage!" is insulting. Don't fool yourself into thinking you can control every aspect of someone else's behavior. You're a sinner and so is your husband. People sin, regardless of their priorities. People lie, regardless of their religious convictions. People can deceive and let you down. You're not immune. If you're blessed to never have marriage issues, mozel tov. If you can't be supportive, at least don't be insulting.

[Remudamom]

Legally, this is not an option. Kids need their Dads and the courts don't care about infedility when they determine visitation, etc.

 

Huh. I wouldn't give a rat's ass if it were an option or not.

[Danestress]

Huh. I wouldn't give a rat's ass if it were an option or not.

 

I don't know you, and no offense is intended, but when I read this, I wonder whether you don't think your children value their relationship with their father.

 

I know that even if my father wasn't faithful, I would never forgive my mother if she cut him off from me because of her own sense of betrayal. Bad husbands can still be great fathers - or great enough that children want to be part of their lives.

[katemary63]

You're coming across as judgmental and lacking any sort of empathy. Sort of like telling someone who's hit bad financial times, "Golly, I have a million dollars in my savings account. I can't possibly imagine not having any money! If I saw my account dwindling, I'd do something about it!

 

Here's something for you to imagine: A devout Christian woman meets what appears to be a devout Christian man. He does and says all the right things. He reads the bible and is well-versed in Scripture. He attends church and Sunday school. He has all the appearances of a godly, devout man. Then one day, OOOPSIE! Some gay porn shows up on your computer. You confront it and he admits he'd been viewing it. You spend the next 7 years in counseling, doing everything you can to save your marriage, and he claims he is too, but yet, he isn't. He is continuing to carry on with men in hotels, at his office, at your home when you're away. So, during all this counseling, while he's continuing to profess repentance and sorrow, he's instead doing the exact opposite behind your back. Meanwhile, you've read every book written on how to be a better wife, do things better, be more supportive, more loving, more encouraging. And the marriage still fails. Can you come close to imagining such deception? Can you begin to wrap your head around the concept that BOTH people need to work on the relationship and if one isn't, it's going to fail? Can you possibly understand that some people are sociopathic liars? Do you get it now?

 

The "oh, I can't possibly imagine such a thing; you obviously didn't work on your marriage!" is insulting. Don't fool yourself into thinking you can control every aspect of someone else's behavior. You're a sinner and so is your husband. People sin, regardless of their priorities. People lie, regardless of their religious convictions. People can deceive and let you down. You're not immune. If you're blessed to never have marriage issues, mozel tov. If you can't be supportive, at least don't be insulting.

 

You are 100% right and If I could delete my post I would. I do see a lot of people who's priorities are out of wack and THAT is the reason for the death of thier relationship. However, I do have compassion for people in situations that they had no controle over what so ever and I apologize for sounding judgemental. I should have realized that I was speaking to people in the latter category, not the first. I shouldn't take credit for my relationship at all actually. God has blessed me in that area of my life and I'm grateful. It's Him and nothing else. I do have other areas in my life that have been trials and difficult and I understand those going through hard times. My life is not/ has not been ideal by any stretch....Sorry again, I just wasn't paying close enough attention to what I was reading and jumped on my own soap box without thinking of others.

[OnTheBrink]

You are 100% right and If I could delete my post I would. I do see a lot of people who's priorities are out of wack and THAT is the reason for the death of thier relationship. However, I do have compassion for people in situations that they had no controle over what so ever and I apologize for sounding judgemental. I should have realized that I was speaking to people in the latter category, not the first. I shouldn't take credit for my relationship at all actually. God has blessed me in that area of my life and I'm grateful. It's Him and nothing else. I do have other areas in my life that have been trials and difficult and I understand those going through hard times. My life is not/ has not been ideal by any stretch....Sorry again, I just wasn't paying close enough attention to what I was reading and jumped on my own soap box without thinking of others.

 

Apology accepted. :grouphug:

[Lisa R.]

There was a misunderstanding. One spoke hastily. The other confronted in a kind but firm way. The other clarified her position and apologized. Apology was accepted. No name calling. No snide remarks. No sarcasm. If everyone followed this model, these boards would...even better than they are.

 

It is so easy to be misunderstood in cyberspace. It is so easy to type something in haste without realizing all angles. This board helps us see other points of view while clarifying our own.

 

Thanks you two for making the board a better place today.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I'm curious about those who say that infidelity is an automatic divorce. I have heard many people say it.

 

Statistics I've read say some 70% of men and 50% of women are unfaithful at least once in a marriage. Assuming some but not 100% overlap, does the infidelity is automatic divorce camp think an 80% divorce rate is desirable? I'm truly curious.

 

For example:

If you found out your spouse had had a brief affair that was always "a fling" (never a romance) some years back, would you now divorce them? That is assuming the marriage is otherwise amiable and that you have children.

 

Nope, not automatically. Not even close. And even if it had been a romance, I wouldn't automatically divorce.

 

People grow and change and within the bonds of marriage fall more or less in and out of love. Infidelity doesn't mean the marriage is doomed any more than being sneaky and unwise with money or having irreconcilably disparate views on certain aspects of child rearing or treating the other one dishonorably or with a less-than-cherishing heart now and again would be.

 

It's major, don't get me wrong. But it's not the end of the world 100% of the time.. I'm committed more to the marriage than to the spouse. And have been since the kids arrived. There are circumstances that would cause me to immediately leave my husband and not pass GO and not collect $200. But infidelity in the normal sense of the word wouldn't necessarily end my marriage.

[KidsHappen]

There was a misunderstanding. One spoke hastily. The other confronted in a kind but firm way. The other clarified her position and apologized. Apology was accepted. No name calling. No snide remarks. No sarcasm. If everyone followed this model, these boards would...even better than they are.

 

It is so easy to be misunderstood in cyberspace. It is so easy to type something in haste without realizing all angles. This board helps us see other points of view while clarifying our own.

 

Thanks you two for making the board a better place today.

 

:iagree: I think that this is a fine example.

[Nakia]

There was a misunderstanding. One spoke hastily. The other confronted in a kind but firm way. The other clarified her position and apologized. Apology was accepted. No name calling. No snide remarks. No sarcasm. If everyone followed this model, these boards would...even better than they are.

 

It is so easy to be misunderstood in cyberspace. It is so easy to type something in haste without realizing all angles. This board helps us see other points of view while clarifying our own.

 

Thanks you two for making the board a better place today.

 

Well said! And bravo to you two ladies for handling that so well! I am so proud to be a member of this group of awesome people!!

[Reya]

When a man cheats with a woman, it's because there's a breakdown of some sort in the marriage that both partners have responsibility for. I AM NOT SAYING A WIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HER HUSBAND'S BEHAVIOR. I am saying, when a man seeks other women, he's not getting his needs met by his wife, FOR WHATEVER REASON (lack of communication on his part, lack of willingness to communicate, lack of maturity, lack of character; she's an unreasonable person, she doesn't give him what he's asked for; the fault can go both ways, equally or inequally. There are too many variables to say it's catagorically one person's fault).

 

Nope. Not always. Sometimes, it's just because a person knows they're not supposed to that they want to. It's forbidden and therefore desirable.

 

Stupid reason to ruin your life? Sure. But it's the oldest reason there is. You can't say that God was not fulfilling Adam and Eve's life, can you?

[Audrey]

I'm curious about those who say that infidelity is an automatic divorce. I have heard many people say it.

 

Statistics I've read say some 70% of men and 50% of women are unfaithful at least once in a marriage. Assuming some but not 100% overlap, does the infidelity is automatic divorce camp think an 80% divorce rate is desirable? I'm truly curious.

 

For example:

If you found out your spouse had had a brief affair that was always "a fling" (never a romance) some years back, would you now divorce them? That is assuming the marriage is otherwise amiable and that you have children.

 

 

I'm suspicious of those statistics. I can't believe it's that high. Not all divorces are because of infidelity.

 

I would be surprised if dh cheated. Frankly, I'd be impressed if he could pull it off. We live in a very small community with a very fast gossip train. So fast, that if he could manage to do the deed with another woman, I'd probably hear about it before he got his pants back up. :lol:

 

And to your original question: I don't think it would be a deal breaker anyway. If it was that important to him to have a fling and assuming he still wanted to be married to me, I'd find an agreeable middle ground. In other words, if he wants his candy on the side, I want mine, too. :D

 

Quite obviously, YMMV.

[CLHCO]

I looked up the statistics last time there was a post with similarly high statistics. Those are inaccurate. The best estimates (and they are always just the "best estimates") put it closer to 15% of married women, 20% for men, if memory serves. I my be off a bit.

 

Just so all the women here don't start looking at their husbands too suspiciously. ;)

 

As for the question - It would not for me, but there are way too many variables for a blanket statement. A foolish laps of judgment years ago leading to guilt that eats a person up into extreme repentance is very different than a habitual liar, or one with an addiction issue in that area they are unwilling or unable to confront in the most drastic of ways. (Can't think of a drastic enough way, but there may be one...)

 

Me? I love my husband, I trust my husband, I am blessed that God gave me my husband because I was a foolish twit when I married the man, and if I'd have been asked by some of the bums that came before him, I would be living a very different life. I have no experience with such an unknown to judge another person's decision in this area, only the one I'd make involving the two involved in this marriage.

[Reya]

Well, I just don't understand how people let their relationships get to the point where cheating is an option to be honest. My DH is ME and I am him. We are like one person. We are so close, so enmeshed, dependent on each other emotionally, best friends, as corny as it sounds...soul mates....partners....that even the thought of an affair is just absurd. If things started to change between us, our first priority would be to fix it - no matter what it took. That means changing jobs, moving, counseling. WHAT EVER IT TOOK - TO MAKE THINGS RIGHT BETWEEN US, WE WOULD DO. We would never let things get so distant between us, that an affair would ever happen on either of our parts. Our first priority, after our relationship with God, is our relationship with each other. And that's not just words. It takes work and we work at it.

 

So when you ask if I would divorce my husband if he cheated on me, I first have to think about what it would take for us to be in a place relationally where he might cheat on me....I can't even imagine it. Being in that place, I mean. Just having the sort of marriage where he might cheat would be a devastation to me in and of itself. I would take action, DO something about it ...long before that.

 

signed,

 

Still madly in love every single day for twenty four years and planning to stay that way for the next 50.

 

Sweetie--and I mean this with all kindness--you're incredibly naive. It's GOOD that you've been able to live so long and maintain that naivety--and you should praise God for it every day--but still, haven't you known women who believed all those things about their marriages, only to find themselves betrayed?

 

Men--and women--don't cheat for just one reason. It's not always about the marriage. It's not always about the other person in the marriage. People have cheated because their kid's very sick and they're stressed out. People have cheated for the thrill. People have cheated because they found someone younger and prettier who flattered them. They've cheated because they can. They've cheated because their mother just died. They've cheated because they felt smothered by love. They've cheated because they were scared of the responsibility of a family. Heck, they've cheated because of peer pressure! People have cheated for just about every reason imaginable--and THEN some. Having the determination to have the most wonderful marriage in the world ain't going to make cheating impossible. No matter what the ideal is, you really are just you, and he really is him. If man chose to be unfaithful to God, how exempt from faithlessness do you think you can be, as another flawed human?

 

People change after marriage, too, in ways that can't be predicted. Some change, over time, into better people. My DH is one of those, at this point, and I hope that I am, too. Others change for the worse, and no amount of goodness and love can stop that.

 

Life's not that pretty. It's not that safe. And it's certainly NOT that predictable or controllable.

 

Your naivety is charming, and I fervently hope for your sake that you are never forced to give it up under ugly circumstances. :-) But no one--and I mean no one--is invincible to this kind of thing.

Edited February 28, 2009 by Reya

[Jill- OK]

That doesn't mean that I wouldn't take steps to protect myself, physically (from the health threats that a straying spouse might produce) or legally (in case *he* decided to bail on the marriage), but divorce isn't an option that's available to me for any reason.

 

I'm with those who say they're suspicious of the stats.

[Ohdanigirl]

Don't forget that maturity can also affect a persons decision to cheat. Also, family. That is, the way you were raised. Here in Mexico, for a long time cheating by the man was seen as ok, deal with it they all do it. It has changed recently, but even I saw it with uncles growing up, it was no secret. their sons grew up thinking it was normal behavior and did the same, although some learned to regret it later... whether it was by growing up, or losing what they took for granted. As women I believe we have a lot of power here, we are the ones who teach our children in more ways than we know. I hope I am teaching my boys to respect women and not use them. If I ever have a daughter I hope she will have good self esteem and never see it as an ok thing to go after a taken man, regardless of how unhappy he may say he is.

[bkpan]

I'm curious about those who say that infidelity is an automatic divorce. I have heard many people say it.

 

Statistics I've read say some 70% of men and 50% of women are unfaithful at least once in a marriage. Assuming some but not 100% overlap, does the infidelity is automatic divorce camp think an 80% divorce rate is desirable? I'm truly curious.

 

For example:

If you found out your spouse had had a brief affair that was always "a fling" (never a romance) some years back, would you now divorce them? That is assuming the marriage is otherwise amiable and that you have children.

 

 

Im sorry, but those statistics are laughable. Dont believe them for a minute!

[homeschoolmom]

I can't say what I would do until I had to live it. I do know that I'd try to cool down and think it through before making a rash decsion as I can be a hot head.

 

Probably a lame response but I've learned the hard way that I can't make any assumptions about what I would do when I'm not in the situation as I've found myself at times in life doing 'what I would NEVER do' and having to back away from that.

 

Just my 2 cents...

[dragons in the flower bed]

When a man cheats with a man, the marriage is over. There is nothing a woman can do to satisfy the needs the husband wants filled. Unless he completely stays away from men, physically AND emotionally, there's nothing that can be done to heal the marriage, unless the wife agrees to let him have men, too

 

That a husband cheats on a wife by sleeping with another man does not necessarily mean his needs can't be met by a woman. Some men who sleep with men are bisexual. Bisexual doesn't mean "must have both," but, "may enjoy either." There are plenty of bisexual men in the world who engage in monogamy, sometimes with women, and are quite happy and satisfied in that arrangement.

[Peela]

No, not automatic divorce here. The whole situation around the infidelity would be taken into account. I have heard of many cases where infidelity brought to light issues in a marriage that were subsequently worked through, and the marriage was then better than before.

To err is human, to forgive is divine.

Abuse, or a situation that directly hurt my kids, would be more likely to send me packing, and even then, if there is remorse, its very different to if there isn't.