Janna Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) I have an idea that I want to present to someone in my church, but I want my idea to be more concrete so I could answer questions without saying, "yeah, I hadn't thought that far". So if you can help me think this through I would really appreciate it. Our church recently bought 54 acres of land in which to expand on. Our current property had already been expanded on as much as was possible and we have outgrown it. So not only do we have a bunch of land, but we're building new buildings. It also happens to be in a different town, in a different county, because the current one doesn't have any property left that is big enough and this new property is literally 2 miles away (we were on the border of the other county). Anyway, one of the buildings is now complete and we had our first service there yesterday! Our church is very community minded. We are active in our community and we have many services in which the community takes part. Because we're in a new town and county, we're obviously trying to reach out to this community too. So here is my idea: With all the land we have, I was thinking that it would be a good idea to have a huge community garden. Either a garden that we churchgoers attend to, or a garden where people have their own "plot" and attend to themselves (weeding, planting, tilling etc), including those in the community who don't attend our church but live in apartments nearby and want a garden or whatever. If it was a garden that we churchgoers attended to and kept up, we could either a.) give the produce away like we do with our food pantry or b.) sell the produce for a nominal price to those in the community. I guess I'm just thinking that depending on where our economy goes it could be needed to help those without jobs, struggling financially etc to have food. But I think~and not to be a snob and therefore needing some tips here on how to present this~that our food pantry (and food pantry's in general) give away really unhealthy and nutrient lacking foods. Since they are dependent on volunteers to stock the pantry, what you're left with is the cheapest of the cheap, kwim? I don't know if there are state regulations on what foods can be given out in food pantry's, but gosh, wouldn't it be nice to hand out in addition to the $.79 loaf of white bread and Tuna Helper, a basket of zucchini's, fresh green beans, strawberries, squash, broccoli etc? I mean, we have the land for it! Do you have any thoughts for me on this? I have long been troubled at how our food pantry is so unhealthy but haven't known how to change it (esp. because I'm not in charge of it). This seems like a viable solution, don't you think? Since we just opened our new building yesterday, and it's apparent that we're going to have to consider starting construction on the next one soon (we had a record number of people and the parking lot was overfilled!), I don't want to throw out undeveloped ideas when there is so much on people's mind already, kwim? Not to mention I'm not good at gardening! I'm the one who has the ideas, but not the ability to do them, LOL! Edited February 16, 2009 by Janna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Not a lot of good ideas, but this sounds wonderful! I've heard of it working in communities where everyone comes together to help care for little gardens! You might be able to buy seed in bulk, too! What a great idea! Let us know how it works:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffinmom Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I don't really have any advice about it, but I love the idea. I have just been thinking about how nutrition (or lack of it) often contributes to people's woes (stress levels, mood, and behavior, etc.), and particularly in certain community groups more than others. God made our bodies to need good, healthy foods; when we don't give our bodies what they need, our bodies, and therefore our minds and lives suffer. There is also spiritual symbolism in the idea of what you take into yourself is what you become. So it makes sense to me that the if the church is revealing God to the community, this is a way to do it on a very basic level, and it meets needs and builds community at the same time. I don't feel like I really expressed my thoughts well because I've got a headache and my thoughts aren't real coherent at the moment, but, well, maybe you get the idea! :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I think it's a great idea, but insurance could be an issue. It would be a liability to have people on the property using tools that could cause injury. You might want to check that out. I'd hate to see your church held legally responsible for a silly accident caused by a flying rake or something. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in AL Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I think it's a great idea. I saw a news piece (sorry, can't remember where) about a couple who did this and helped to pay for it by getting grant money. I'm not sure if churches can get grants though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in AL Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 To start with, you might want to plan on finding volunteers in your church that can make the land workable, plowing and such. Also see if you can find someone willing to donate topsoil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mx5 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I have an idea that I want to present to someone in my church, but I want my idea to be more concrete so I could answer questions without saying, "yeah, I hadn't thought that far". So if you can help me think this through I would really appreciate it. I'm a pastor's wife. Lots of people have lots of truly great ideas, but few of them want to put in the leg work to get those ideas done. 99% of the time things don't get done because we have ideas but not workers. If I were you, here's what I'd do. 1. Contact the pastor / leadership team to see if the garden idea would even be feasible. They will know things that you wouldn't have access to. If they do say no, don't take it to mean that they don't care for needy people or don't care about nutrition. This is your first step. If they say yes, then be ready with the other things below. 2. Let your leadership know you are willing to assemble a garden team. Yeah, you're busy. So are they. So is everyone. :willy_nilly:You will need to find people who are not only good at gardening, but who also have the tools and the passion/drive available to make this a success. For instance, try to find someone in the church who owns a rototiller and who would be willing to use it or lend it out, or find a nearby farmer who might be willing to till the land. 3. Think out logistics. Not knowing where you live, I think the following questions need to be answered before I'd take on such a project: - How will the gardens be irrigated? -Who will be responsible for the weeding and harvesting? -How many acres would the garden be? -Who decides what is to be planted, and where? -Who pays for the seed, equipment rental, hoses, water, etc? -Who will transport produce to your food pantry? -What happens if someone gets hurt on the property - does the church carry liability insurance? If you do your homework ahead of time, and set up a time to meet with your church leadership (don't drop it in the pastor's ear right after service) you may just get a chance to spearhead a wonderful endeavor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I think it's a great idea. Community gardens here where I live are very popular, and usually have a waiting list for a plot. I would recommend getting the soil tested to make sure there's no contamination, heavy metals, etc. I don't know if there are zoning laws that might apply. And check into liability insurance. I googled "starting a community garden" and there are many good articles with helpful advice. Good luck! Gardens are very nourishing for the soul as well as the body, so I hope you can come up with workable plan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I just read an article about Detroit, where they have tons of community gardens. A lot of people left when the car factories closed down, and they have tons of empty plots there. I love your idea. I agree with all the other posts about how to get started and liability etc. P.S. I don't think I'd comment about how you don't like the current nutrition in the food bank. Just point out the the veggies would be a wonderful nutritious addition w/o commenting on the current selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erica in OR Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 The idea was part of a larger brainstorm session for our church, and ended up not being worked on in favor of other items. However, I was drawn to it and gave it some thought, particularly in connection with the Square Foot Gardening (Mel Bartholomew's book) method my family and I use in our own garden. To avoid some of the problems with machinery and even irrigation, you might consider looking into what it would take to build a community garden using the methods in Bartholomew's book (the new version rather than the old). He also has a good website. The benefits would be: 1) A garden that tends to look neater and more well-kept. 2) Discrete boxes that make it clear whose plot is whose. 3) Garden areas that area easy to keep clear of weeds and to prepare for the following garden season. 4) Garden areas that don't require tilling or even typical garden tools beyond spades. 5) Garden areas that don't need extensive amounts of water, but can even be watered by hand from rain barrels. In this method, each family/unit could have a 4 x 4 foot box, or additional boxes if desired. Boxes can be built out of scrap lumber quite easily, or purchased as nice-looking boxes on the website. Vertical trellises are built out of bent metal pipe and netting, and are stood up next to a box over rebar driven into the ground. This would allow one to grow even vine-y items without great sprawl. We've successfully done peas, tomatoes, and even jack o'lantern size pumpkins. Instead of using existing ground or topsoil, Bartholomew describes a mix of vermiculite, peat moss, and various composts that is mixed from bulk amounts and used to fill the boxes. This means there are no existing weed seeds when you start. The mix is very easy to pull any weeds out of if they do appear. Best wishes! Erica in OR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Sounds great so far :) You might want to check w/ your county ag extension office or Master Gardeners and see if they would be willing to help out/ offer advice. My first gut reaction is they would rather see the church growing stuff and giving it away than having people come on the property and utilize it. BUt if it's in tandem w/ the Master Gardener's you might have a workable solution. You can also see if there's interest in just growing lots of veggies and canning them for the food pantry. and research community gardens, contact the people hosting them, and get actual feedback about how they handled these questions :) good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I think it's a great idea! I know that our local food pantry will actually come out to your house and pick fruit off of your trees to give away if you don't need it. And they accept donations of home-gardened produce. You will probably need to check with your local laws but it definitely sounds do-able! If you know of any other non-profit or city-run community gardens in your area, maybe someone who manages one would be willing to talk to you re: how they set theirs up, what kind of rules they have, and any legal/insurance concerns you will need to address. I hope it works out!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 There is an organization called Second Harvest (I think) that encourages gardeners from all over to donate part of their garden production to local food banks. Sort of a plant an extra row for the hungry type thing. You might google around with that and see if you are inspired. I wish I were a part of your church. I love to garden and would love helping with a project like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) You might have better results with something very easy to care for, like fruit or nut trees, than veggies that need to be tended weekly or more often. Another thing that you might consider is starting small by starting a 'gleaners' group. Advertise for volunteers in your church, and see what you turn up. Then if you can field a good crew, advertise for fruit harvesting. Around here there are groups who do that--they give 10% of the crop to the homeowner, and keep 0-10% and give 80-90% to local food bank-type places. Or just advertise for back yard gardeners to 'plant an extra row for the hungry.' If there is a lot of enthusiasm and follow through for those kinds of ideas, then I'll bet you would have a good indication that you'd get plenty of support for your idea, which is quite a bit more of an undertaking. Edited February 17, 2009 by Carol in Cal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in OH Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I would recommend getting the soil tested to make sure there's no contamination, heavy metals, etc. Don't do any environmental testing without written permission from the body in your church that handles legal issues. The results of such testing could have legal consequences for the owner of the property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_l_e_0..Q_c Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Locally, the Botanical Gardens have a program that will train new gardenerers. There are rules to follow. You must show up a certain number of times per week to care for your little plot. I'm not sure what the rules are exactly though. But what's really nice is having some expertise to help with organic growing, and just plain garderning for people like me who can't grow a plant inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 A how-to and some churches that are currently doing this. I couldn't find the exact article I was looking for, there was a very good church related one with details about how their garden worked linked from the CrunchyCon blog several months ago. http://www.arts4all.com/elca/page8.html http://www.thanksgivinglutheran.org/garden.html http://www.patriotledger.com/homepage/x1886919900/A-garden-of-eatin-in-Hingham http://www.brooklinecommunity.org/page108.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janna Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm a pastor's wife. Lots of people have lots of truly great ideas, but few of them want to put in the leg work to get those ideas done. 99% of the time things don't get done because we have ideas but not workers. If I were you, here's what I'd do. 1. Contact the pastor / leadership team to see if the garden idea would even be feasible. They will know things that you wouldn't have access to. If they do say no, don't take it to mean that they don't care for needy people or don't care about nutrition. This is your first step. If they say yes, then be ready with the other things below. 2. Let your leadership know you are willing to assemble a garden team. Yeah, you're busy. So are they. So is everyone. :willy_nilly:You will need to find people who are not only good at gardening, but who also have the tools and the passion/drive available to make this a success. For instance, try to find someone in the church who owns a rototiller and who would be willing to use it or lend it out, or find a nearby farmer who might be willing to till the land. 3. Think out logistics. Not knowing where you live, I think the following questions need to be answered before I'd take on such a project: - How will the gardens be irrigated? -Who will be responsible for the weeding and harvesting? -How many acres would the garden be? -Who decides what is to be planted, and where? -Who pays for the seed, equipment rental, hoses, water, etc? -Who will transport produce to your food pantry? -What happens if someone gets hurt on the property - does the church carry liability insurance? If you do your homework ahead of time, and set up a time to meet with your church leadership (don't drop it in the pastor's ear right after service) you may just get a chance to spearhead a wonderful endeavor. Thank you for this! This is exactly what I was looking for! I already knew that I needed to present this to the leadership team. I put in the info about our new church opening yesterday so it would be known that they are more than likely overwhelmed right now. The response was so intense and we ran out of parking spaces for 2 of the 3 services, that new ideas are probably NOT what they are looking for, kwim? So I need to figure out who the best person is to tell and when. I also, because dh and I are pretty active in our church, am aware that if I have the idea, it's up to me once I get approval, to see it through. I am prepared for that. I have already seen first hand the serious lack of consistent volunteers we have, so I am willing to do what I need to do. The questions to think about were good. I had thought about a few of them already. We have a person who owns a landscaping business in our church. He donated and planted all the new trees and bushes on our new property. I am certain he could do the tilling and possibly even the irrigation, or at least be an excellent resource on this subject. So yes, your response is exactly how I've been thinking and the questions were what I needed to get me grounded with how to answer when the questions arise, if I get the OK for this. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janna Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 There is also spiritual symbolism in the idea of what you take into yourself is what you become. So it makes sense to me that the if the church is revealing God to the community, this is a way to do it on a very basic level, and it meets needs and builds community at the same time. Yes, you're so right. There is so much that can be tied into a community garden and nutrition, spiritually. Thank you for this reminder! I don't feel like I really expressed my thoughts well because I've got a headache and my thoughts aren't real coherent at the moment, but, well, maybe you get the idea! :tongue_smilie: You expressed them just fine! I hope your headache is gone and you're well rested! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janna Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 P.S. I don't think I'd comment about how you don't like the current nutrition in the food bank. Just point out the the veggies would be a wonderful nutritious addition w/o commenting on the current selection. :lol: Don't worry. I won't say anything. And if I do because I can't control myself, it will be well stated. And actually, the pastor's wife is a personal trainer. She and I are friends and we have talked many times about exercise and nutrition. I know that she is wanting to get a nature walk put in on the grounds at some point too, but I don't know if that will happen. She has a pretty good "in" with the pastor though, so chances are good that it will. ;) Anyway, I could talk to her about the nutrition factor and it wouldn't be of any surprise to her at all. Anyone else though, I would have to bee quiet or risk looking like a snob. Thinking of the nature walk though, just makes having a garden to share with the community seem all the more natural, you know? I think it would tie in nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janna Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 You might want to check w/ your county ag extension office or Master Gardeners and see if they would be willing to help out/ offer advice. This is a good idea. I will look into this after I have gotten approval. My first gut reaction is they would rather see the church growing stuff and giving it away than having people come on the property and utilize it. This is my gut reaction too, and honestly, what I would prefer. If money was needed, which I would understand, we could always sell the produce on stands on the weekend or something. But I would have to talk to some people for some brainstorming on this. I think having people coming to tend to their plots etc would be more of a liability issue. You can also see if there's interest in just growing lots of veggies and canning them for the food pantry. I thought about this earlier today! But I got to thinking immediately after having the thought, that it would probably be a no-go for sanitation issues or something. I will definitely bring it up and ask, but I get the feeling this won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janna Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 There is an organization called Second Harvest (I think) that encourages gardeners from all over to donate part of their garden production to local food banks. Sort of a plant an extra row for the hungry type thing. You might google around with that and see if you are inspired. I wish I were a part of your church. I love to garden and would love helping with a project like this. I will look into this, thank you! I wish you were part of my church too. Then I wouldn't be the only homeschooler. Yes. Out of 850 people, we are the *only* homeschooling family. Isn't that crazy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janna Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 Don't do any environmental testing without written permission from the body in your church that handles legal issues. The results of such testing could have legal consequences for the owner of the property. Yes, good thought. I can understand why the person suggested that, but you are absolutely right. It's not my place to do that or schedule that anyway. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 What a fantastic idea Janna! To give people access to other-wise unused land to garden, and to use surplus to feed needy people, what better purpose could be served? As you say, food pantries are unfortunately only able to provide less than optimally nutritious food. And people struggling economically need fresh vegetables to stay healthy more than ever when they are under stress. On "practical" consideration you'd need to address is pesticide use. Here in California at least, people who spray in a community garden cause huge uproars. Most gardens now have an "organic" only policy. Vague policies can lead to big problems. Most folks who go to the trouble of raising their own vegetables what them to be pesticide free, but left to their own devices there is always someone who will reach for pesticides if there's the slightest problem. Just something to think about. Good luck with this, it's a fantastic idea! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph the vet Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 This is a great idea and it will work. I am involved in ministry to Somalis (teaching English) here in the Twin Cities. We started garden plots on a vacant lot near the high rise that most of our students live in. Somalis are a farming type of people and in the city they have not had access to dirt, so we found them some. It was great for them to work the soil and we got to as well alongside them and build relationships. The additional perk was the veggies of course. So consider the refugee groups you may have in your area as well when you begin to implement this. May God bless your efforts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janna Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 Thanks, Bill. I had thought of the the pesticide use, wondering if that would come up as something "needed". I was thinking that I needed to do some research on good plants that are deterrents to pests (aren't Marigold's?) that could be planted around the garden, and what other natural things could be used for the bugs that eat the leaves etc... to offset those who would be in favor of the pesticide usage. I was also thinking that this would be more of a problem if it was a community garden where individuals had their own plots to tend. I would not want someone next to my plot using the pesticides because it would, without a doubt, get onto my plants too, not to mention that the soil for everyone would become tainted. However, if this were a large garden that we had volunteers harvesting and weeding but the plants were already planted, and rules were already set (no pesticides), this wouldn't be as much of an issue. At least, that's what I have thought so far. Again, all of this is null and void if I don't get "approval" from the leadership. I have to say that I'm so excited about the prospect of this working and the many different facets regarding this, that I am almost nervous to tell someone about it. I want so badly for others to have the same passions as I do for nutrient-rich foods and well-being. The fact is, they don't and so they may very well not see the value of this idea. I have to think of all the different angles in which to "sell" this idea, kwim? I have a long list though... Thanks for the support! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janna Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 So consider the refugee groups you may have in your area as well when you begin to implement this. Thanks for this thought! I don't know a whole lot about this new town we're in yet to know what kind of community needs there are, or if there are refugee's nearby. I am sure someone in the church knows, though. In terms of people not having a place to plant because of where they live, this is one of the reasons I want to do this. There are lots of apartment complexes near our church and there is an elderly assistance center that is getting ready to be built too. Not to mention that with all of the foreclosures, many people are now renting houses. Not all of the landlords want their yards torn up for gardening, so I just see a real need for this. Esp, as I said in my OP, not knowing where the economy is going to go this summer, or even next. I don't think this is so much a "good idea" as I do a real need. Thanks for your thoughts on this!:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillfarm Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 If you are planning to have the church members grow produce to give away, you might want to have some of the cooks in the church do a demo on how to prepare it prior to the folks taking it away. If they aren't used to cooking with fresh produce, a lot of people don't really know what to do with it. Secondly, one of the big difficulties that I have seen with community gardens is later in the season when things are growing wildly. You might have a rule about how each plot has to be tended weekly or every 10 days or some such minimum, or others will step in and tend it (and harvest the rewards). One extremely overgrown plot can make it difficult for everyone aroud that area, both in being able to access their own stuff and the drift of weed seeds. I don't know what your community is like, but I live in a fairly rural area with a few small towns and a small city. We tried giving fresh produce away to needy families and no one would even come and take it. When we asked why, one woman said it was just easier for her to go buy a box of macaroni and cheese at the store for a quarter than to try to figure out how to cook zucchini and fresh green beans. Although, it may be different now, with the economy the way it is. And also, there is a new group of people out there, the recently unemployed, who may be more willing to and have more time to work in a garden. But honestly, I was very disappointed when we tried this and my advice would be to start small and not talk it up too much. Then if it goes well, you can do a lot more with it the second year, but if it flops you will not be dealing with large numbers of people or hurtful criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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