Incredibly long & cc

[Aubrey]

1. Dh is working the courier job for now--some days he makes as little as $17, barely enough to cover gas, wear & tear on the car. Once in a while, he makes $300+ in a day.

 

To get any work at all lately, he's had to work 12-9PM or later. He took this job w/ the hopes of being home for dinner at least more often, if not every night. Obviously, that has not worked out.

 

He has health issues that require him to have health coverage. For now, he has mediocre coverage thr Cobra. The kids & I have nothing, & dh's salary is not really enough to *use* the Cobra, but...it's there. For 18mos. It gives us some wiggle room to figure things out.

 

2. He got a job as a worship pastor recently. The salary will more than pay our rent, so it helps a lot. It's a church re-plant, so we didn't visit before agreeing to the job--the pastor was in the process of closing the old place down, & pretty much everything was going to be different at the new place. Plus, pastor was waiting on a music guy to start the new place, so he needed dh's answer ASAP.

 

After dh agreed, the start date of the new church was pushed back nearly a month, & we got a chance to visit the old place. There are only 2 things that will stay the same at the new place: the preacher & the (new) children's coordinator. Both left...something to be desired. I want to be careful what I say, because these are dear people, but...if it weren't for having already made the commitment, I wouldn't have even stayed through the service, iykwim.

 

Before this, we'd been attending a church (RB)that I loved. We haven't found a church I loved since the one we were married in, nearly 10 yrs ago, & it wasn't for lack of trying. Some Sundays, we split up, borrowed mil's car, & hit 2-4 churches in a single Sunday to try to find one we liked. It's rather shocking to see what's out there!

 

Anyway, we'd made friends at RB pretty quickly. They offer free child care once a mo so parents can spend a little time alone together (something we haven't been able to do in over a yr). They have a GREAT Awanas program, & the kids instantly made friends w/ teachers & kids both (something that they rarely do).

 

One of the deciding factors in dh taking the new job was being able to continue taking the dc to Wed night Awanas at RB. The church plant was going to be Thurs night & Sun AM, so we said ok.

 

3. Since the courier job has been so abysmal & since dh has been working 40 or more hrs a week doing that & still not making ends meet, we've had to reassess seminary. This past semester was a disaster. We never saw ea other, there was constant friction, etc.

 

Dh agreed to look for another job, whether it be instead of or in conjunction w/ seminary, but he seemed to finally see the toll that doing too much was taking on the family.

 

So he got a call 2 days ago for a regular 8-5 job & sent them the info they wanted. He's been planning to take a couple of night classes this semester so that we can stay in seminary housing (6 hrs is the min) & have an easier transition into something else, as necessary.

 

But evening classes are either MW or TR. He couldn't do Awanas & the church plant. I can't drive the big car, & the little car won't hold all the dc. Even if that weren't a problem, having school 2 nights/wk + church 2 nights/wk + working FT...is craziness.

 

4. We'd worked out a sort-of solution. The church plant owns a missions apt that we could stay in free. Another sch in the area offers a MA Christian Ed (instead of the MDiv), & it only takes 1/2 the hrs of the MDiv. Dh would only need 17 hrs, & we could be all in at the church plant.

 

Turns out, though, the missions apt is about 2/3 the size of our current apt, which is 900-ish sf. It has 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, no windows, & the walls don't go all the way to the ceiling.

 

Our back up plan was RB--the church that I love here. After we'd left, we found out that they've been setting $ aside for a children's worship program, & that they only lack somebody to lead it. The whole time we were there, trying to keep our 7yo & 5yo quiet during the service, I'd been telling dh we should volunteer to do something like that.

 

Now, we heard this from an assoc pastor, so I don't know if they're actually ready to move fwd on this or if it would be a paid position, but I asked dh to ask about it. We could do that & stay at the seminary we're at. Dh could still step down to the MACE degree here & he'd have 35ish hrs left. (Still better than 65.)

 

So basically, he'd keep the worship job at the church plant & transfer schools or stay at this school & work at a different church. The pastor of RB finally replied to dh's email request for a meeting, & dh says he feels too bad to back out on the church plant pastor, so he's going to go & just ask for support for the plant instead.

 

I understand that dh feels bad. I feel awful. I tend to jump into things (esp big decisions) as fast as poss. And I change my mind easily. It took me 7 yrs to get my BA for that very reason.

 

But the new church is so bad. And it would mean that dh couldn't continue seminary, which he certainly didn't realize at the time. Honestly, he may not be able to continue anyway, so I’m not sure how much of a factor that should be.

 

I guess…I feel like I need some stability. And if I’m feeling that way, I can only imagine how jerked around the dc must feel. Dh is talking about having to pull them out of Awanas now, & I told him, that’s where I draw the line. They never know where or if we’re going to church, if dh is going to be home, what we’re going to do on any given day.

 

I told dh if he didn’t have a job by Jan, I was going to start applying for teaching jobs. I guess ultimately, my question is, how pushy should I get about him making decisions with regard to school, work, & church? How much should I push to influence those decisions? I hate the new church--so much that it makes me ill. But part of that is guilt, because…although I tried not to…I really pushed him to make a quick decision. I felt like someone was waiting on us, & that makes me nervous. And there’s a lot about the philosophy of the church that matches how we feel about how church should be done. If we didn’t have kids, it might be worth a shot.

 

Given my ‘druthers, I’d have dh stay at this school, we’d go to RB, & we’d get paid (enough to really live on) to head up the children’s ministry there. (The women’s ministry needs someone, too.)

 

The decision that’s made in this is one that sets a life-course, one that’s not easily altered. If dh leaves seminary, I know he’s unlikely to come back while we still have dc at home. Not that that’s bad, just that it bears some good thinking over. Trying to do too much in these yrs while our dc are little & still think we’re magic could come back to bite us, too. I’ve seen so many people do it. Too much debt will cripple us. Too much pushing & pulling to make things work will hurt our marriage. I want to step back from everything, for the sake of the dc & the marriage--shore those up & then *see* what else we can handle. Dh doesn’t work quite that way. When something’s a problem, he tends not to see it until it’s too late or until it’s an emergency, & by then our options are much more limited.

 

He told me the other night that he’d never wanted to be this transient. I wanted to hit him, lol! I grew up moving around so much that that was one thing we discussed before we got married--as little moving as possible! We also sat down & wrote out his goals for the next 10 yrs & the next 5. They’re conflicting goals, kwim? He can’t start a business, buy a forever home, be debt free, & finish seminary. He has to choose one set of goals or the other. And…it’s hard. I want to help him reach his goals & dreams, but I don’t want to sacrifice our family.

 

If you've read this far, you're nuts! But thank you. If you have great wisdom, I'm wide open. Even if it's as simple as reminding me not to be a shrew, lol.

[laughing lioness]

I would recommend putting everything on the table and together praying through each thing one by one and then spend time waiting to hear. A great book that we have found very useful is "Forever Ruined for the Ordinary" by Joy Dawson-details how to really seek God for each circumstance. I am sure that God has a really splendid way of making this all "work" but it might not even be in view right now.

[TraceyS/FL]

I read it all - between stirring dinner! LOL!!

 

:grouphug: I have no wisdom though.... just more :grouphug:

[Paula in MS]

There is no way you guys can serve effectively at a church that you hate. That is the bottom line. If you feel like you spoke in haste accepting the position, explain that to the pastor. It doesn't sound like a good fit, and if that is true, it is best for all concerned if you back out. :grouphug:

 

Paula

[JudoMom]

First things first.

 

You need to find out how much/if RB would pay. If they won't pay enough, then that's off the table.

 

Next, you need to find out how much the 8-5 job would pay. If it's enough, he should do seminary MW and the church plant. IF he'll agree to sell the crazy car and buy something to fit your family that you can drive safely. Then you can take your dc to RB on Wednesday.

 

If neither of these options would work, then he needs to stay at the church plant and do seminary as planned.

 

There you go--solved. That was easy :lol:!

 

Oh yeah--don't be a shrew. (Hey--you called me nuts for reading the whole thing!)

 

Seriously--I'll pray that the solution comes quickly, easily, and painlessly for you guys.

[Dawn E]

:grouphug: Aubrey :grouphug:

 

I'm so sorry for all the uncertainty. Being in the midst of all that is no fun whatsoever.

 

I think it unfortunate that your dh felt he had to make a quick decision for the church job. They apparently weren't as together as they assumed they were. It seems to me that your dh is in a desperate situation lacking the time to really pray over the next step fully and wait for an answer. That is an awful place to be.

 

As for your place, I have been there as well. It's very hard not to let the fear bubble up and out and say things you wish you could take back. I am still working on walking the fine line between encouraging Dh to pursue opportunities and nagging him to do what I want him to do. :001_smile:

 

I agree with Laughing Lioness about taking the time to hear God's leading in this. Of course, I know you guys are seeking Him...but take more time to bathe each decision in prayer since dh's seminary goals are on the line. Look back to when He led you guys in this direction and how He made a way for it to happen. He will make a way again.

[H.S. Burrow]

There is no way you guys can serve effectively at a church that you hate. That is the bottom line. If you feel like you spoke in haste accepting the position, explain that to the pastor. It doesn't sound like a good fit, and if that is true, it is best for all concerned if you back out. :grouphug:

 

Paula

 

:iagree:If you truly hate the church plant, then it needs to come off the table. If you feel that strongly about it, then I don't believe that's where God wants you right now. More :grouphug: because none of your choices are "easy" ones.

[elegantlion]

:iagree:If you truly hate the church plant, then it needs to come off the table. If you feel that strongly about it, then I don't believe that's where God wants you right now. More :grouphug: because none of your choices are "easy" ones.

 

:iagree: with that. Just because it is a church setting doesn't mean you have to stick with it. If he had been offered a non-ministry type of job and felt strongly that it wasn't a correct fit, you wouldn't take it, right?

 

Pray, pray, pray and go where you feel led, not committed, does that make any sense?

[Colleen]

I read it all, (((Aubrey))), and though I'm a bit confused as to the job/housing details, I'll share my thoughts, some of which have been brewing as I've read your posts this last year or so. (Footnote: You know full well my life is no ideal and that I'm not a counselor nor do I play one on tv. So take all this with as large a grain of salt as you deem necessary.)

 

You don't need to be less of a shrew; if anything, you need to be more of one. Okay, okay...not "shrew" per se. None of us wants to behave in that manner. I'm using that term only because you did, and with tongue firmly planted in cheek. But you know what I'm getting at: You need to be more assertive about helping your family find more solid footing. I applaud your husband's attempts to do it all, his desire to serve the Lord via earning a degree from seminary.

 

But.

 

The reality now is that your husband has a family to care for. A family that deserves health care. A family for whom living in limbo is wearing awfully thin. At this point, imo, his hopes and dreams are neither here nor there. What's of primary importance is to work a steady job at a decent wage. Everything else is secondary. If he isn't able or willing to take on that role as chief financial provider, then he needs to stay home and care for the children while you do so.

 

So. What to do with the situation at hand? Well, as someone else said, you can't effectively serve a church you don't like. Rather than go down that road and ignore the warning signs, only to crash and burn later, the church plant position needs to now be declined. Yes, it feels squishy to back out on a commitment, but it's in everyone's best interests.

 

The potential job(s) at the RB church sound like a possibility, but I doubt that's going to provide you the stability you're looking for. If the 8-5 job pays better, that's the better option. As for taking a couple of seminary classes simultaneously, yes, that's an option. Our own pastor was married with two young children while working full time and earning an MDiv from Westminster on a slow-but-steady basis. It can be done. But given the circumstances, I wonder if your husband's pursuing a seminary degree is truly in the best interests of your whole family. Even in today's market, there are other career opportunities that very well might be smarter ~ and there's nothing to say he can't serve the Lord in another capacity.

 

And that's all she wrote.:)

 

Aubrey ~ :grouphug:.

[newbie]

First things first.

 

You need to find out how much/if RB would pay. If they won't pay enough, then that's off the table.

 

Next, you need to find out how much the 8-5 job would pay. If it's enough, he should do seminary MW and the church plant. IF he'll agree to sell the crazy car and buy something to fit your family that you can drive safely. Then you can take your dc to RB on Wednesday.

 

If neither of these options would work, then he needs to stay at the church plant and do seminary as planned.

 

There you go--solved. That was easy :lol:!

 

Oh yeah--don't be a shrew. (Hey--you called me nuts for reading the whole thing!)

 

Seriously--I'll pray that the solution comes quickly, easily, and painlessly for you guys.

 

:iagree:This is my vote and a ton of hugs, I hate being in "limbo" as I call it, whether it be real estate or job related, it is the worst.

 

I think you should follow your womens instinct. There is a reason God gave it to us and not men. Follow what your heart says. You are not being a shrew, you are looking out for your family.

 

Blessings and I will pray for you to find guidance.

[WTMCassandra]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

You might want to work on yourself first and deal with your issues with God. Do you feel left high and dry by God by chucking everything for your husband to go to seminary and then not being able to support your family? I am dealing with anger/distrust toward God right now in another very different area but it's a similar progression: Trusted God, stepped out, and now the limb has been cut off from under me.

 

Making sure your trust line to the Lord is strong will prevent shrewishness and fear when you communicate with your husband ; ).

 

Then, I agree with the poster that there's no way to really serve at a church you hate. It's humbling to have to back out of a decision, but honestly, your DH isn't the only one who messed up here. This church plant has red flags all over it. I totally get "keeping your word," but I don't think this is the time to cut off your nose to spite your face ; ). Perhaps the yuckiness of the church plant is actually a gift from God to help you rule out some things.

 

I would focus on the church that you love and blesses you--ALL of you! Encourage your husband to go there and share HIS heart, not the church plant's heart! Then, leave the results in the Lord's hands.

 

Then, I think the best thing is to get on your knees together and earnestly seek the Lord to figure out (1) Did you hear correctly from him that seminary was the place to go, and if so, (2) How can he support the family and not go crazy and accomplish this?

 

My husband and I have noticed a funnel effect to big decisions like this. At the top of the funnel, when you enter, you can see clear through to the bottom (the goal) and options seem open. As you get into the funnel itself, things start spinning faster and faster, confusing you and with nothing seeming to work out. Things finally come to a head (sounds like you're just about there--where things are at their ultimate confusion and it seems like NOTHING is working), and then you suddenly find yourself spit out the other side, with clarity and focus.

 

Now, it doesn't stay that way forever, but it doesn't stay THIS confusing forever, either.

 

I will be praying for you. I'm sorry things are so worrisome right now.:grouphug:

[SonshineLearner]

I feel for you! I know this must be hard; decisions that are life alternating are always the most stressful because we can't see in the future. Lots of prayer and then you just have to jump for it, so to speak!

Carrie:-)

[Chris in VA]

Hugs to you Aubrey.

I disagree with others that say you can't serve at a church you hate. You don't mention how your husband feels about working there. Does he hate it, too? I think it would be hard to WORK at a church you hate. Serving at a church you hate the STYLE of (seems to be a stylistic difference from your post--is it theological, too?) is refining.

 

Little story--Hubby and I moved to Dallas with two kids. He started his Ph.D at SMU and did not work as a priest (already was ordained with M.Div) for the first year or so. For the first time in our then 8 years of marriage, I had some say in where we went to church. I loved the church we found--felt fed after starving for 4 years in Miami. Then we needed money, so dh found a job at the other Episcopal church (truly up the street from ours!) as a Sunday only assistant. This church was dry--dry, I tell ya! I couldn't bear to go there. Only after about a year did I switch--mainly because his employer quietly insisted. It was hard, because I didn't like the worship (way too formal) and the parish wasn't as healthy. Some sweet man put up the money for dh's position to go full time for the last 4 years we were there, so we were blessed to be there while dh finished his degree.

 

You have my full sympathy--it helps me to know God loves me and cares about my character, and about my dependence on him; he knows its best for me to develop that, so he lets me walk thru the Uncomfortable. That man of yours needs your support. He needs to know you believe his dreams are worthwhile, and he needs to see you trusting that he hears God. And, while you are cheering him on, you can also be a good wife by gently telling him your fears and helping him seek clarity on God's answers--because you listen to God, too.

 

Hang in there.

[Aubrey]

You don't need to be less of a shrew; if anything, you need to be more of one. Okay, okay...not "shrew" per se. None of us wants to behave in that manner. I'm using that term only because you did, and with tongue firmly planted in cheek. But you know what I'm getting at: You need to be more assertive about helping your family find more solid footing.

 

You know, Colleen, that's exactly what I was getting at. I have a much stronger, more opinionated personality than dh, so we both tend to assume that I do too much of the "leading." But after the a/c situation this summer, I've started noticing more & more areas where I really wait too long to say something or don't say something strongly enough, because I'm afraid of being wrong or hurting someone's feelings.

 

I'm wondering about this situation. I don't know where to draw the line, kwim? But I'm pretty sure wherever it is, we passed it a ways back.

[Aubrey]

My husband and I have noticed a funnel effect to big decisions like this. At the top of the funnel, when you enter, you can see clear through to the bottom (the goal) and options seem open. As you get into the funnel itself, things start spinning faster and faster, confusing you and with nothing seeming to work out. Things finally come to a head (sounds like you're just about there--where things are at their ultimate confusion and it seems like NOTHING is working), and then you suddenly find yourself spit out the other side, with clarity and focus.

 

 

What a good description! It helps to remember that. I'm really trying to stay stable & not worry or get angry. It's gotten kind-of hard lately, though. I'm not a naturally keep-your-mouth-shut kind of gal. ;)

[MBH]

Dear Aubrey,

 

I will definately be in prayer for your decision.

 

Here is what I learned from studying the life of Moses at Bible Study Fellowship one year, I think it had to do with the passage that referrs to Moses leading the Israelites into the promised land, some were doubting the report the spies gave to Moses, some were trusting the Lord:

 

Concerning making decisions:

 

1) Pray that the Lord would open up your spiritual eyes to see His calling and His direction. Pray for wisdom and discernment as you begin to examine the scriptures. Did the Lord call your dh to attend seminary? If so, how will the Lord provide for your needs while you are following His calling?

 

2) Examine the scriptures to see if the decision you are about to make agrees with what the Bible has to say. In other words, look at each option and see what the Bible has to say concerning the path you are thinking about. Is it according to God's word? There are a lot of passages concerning our financial worries.

 

3) Look at each option and ask the Lord to give you peace concerning the path He wants you to take. Does the Lord give you peace about leaving the church you do not like? Concerning the church you do not like, is there a theological difference? or difference in the style of preaching or worship? or something else?

 

The Lord promises to take care of His own. We experienced this when my dh went to Dallas Theological Seminary.

 

Again, I will be praying for you.

[astrid]

I applaud your husband's attempts to do it all, his desire to serve the Lord via earning a degree from seminary.

 

But.

 

The reality now is that your husband has a family to care for. A family that deserves health care. A family for whom living in limbo is wearing awfully thin. At this point, imo, his hopes and dreams are neither here nor there. What's of primary importance is to work a steady job at a decent wage. Everything else is secondary. If he isn't able or willing to take on that role as chief financial provider, then he needs to stay home and care for the children while you do so.

 

Aubrey ~ :grouphug:.

 

I totally, COMPLETELY agree with Colleen here. Come on, Aubrey--- you and your dc need stability and health care. You deserve it.

 

I only quoted a little bit, but she pretty much summed up my entire bucket o' thoughts on this one.

 

Especially the hugs at the end. :grouphug::grouphug:

astrid

[Aubrey]

Hugs to you Aubrey.

I disagree with others that say you can't serve at a church you hate. You don't mention how your husband feels about working there. Does he hate it, too? I think it would be hard to WORK at a church you hate. Serving at a church you hate the STYLE of (seems to be a stylistic difference from your post--is it theological, too?) is refining.

 

I'm glad you mentioned this. I think...dh isn't able to separate the job from the $ at this point. He knows we need it. The thing is, it's not enough to solve everything, but it would cost just about everything, kwim?

 

He's excited to get to use his music. He's *hopeful* about the preaching--he's a glass-half-full kinda guy. He thinks some of what we've seen so far is the result of burnout. This is technically going to be a church re-plant.

 

The thing I can't get past is the children's ministry. We'd finally found one we just loved at RB. The plant has a volunteer heading it up, &...you know, it *could* get better...so far it's gotten worse. The preaching & the children's ministry both seem to walk that line of being extra-biblical. Not in a heretical sense but in a WHO CARES????? sense. Kwim? Sun before last they did a "birthday party for Jesus" (:rolleyes:), served cake & ice cream (even to 1yo) WITHOUT asking. They gave gifts to ea of the kids. Not the cheapo in-bulk stuff, but real toys. So, you know, kind-of weak, well-meaning, annoying...I don't know.

 

What makes it really bad, though, was that the sermon was all about wanting vs. needing, gifts, & salvation. If that makes any sense. (It sort-of did, on a very surface level.) So, iow, ea Sun, the sermon has been about one thing, & children's church has taught the opposite.

 

The previous Sun was all about how we shouldn't focus on the tree & lights & Santa, although he did spend a good 5 min or so telling us we didn't have to go home & burn our trees. In children's church? They made Christmas trees?

 

Maybe there's just work to be done. That's fine. I don't mind that. I just don't want the dc to suffer for it.

 

RB isn't really our style. It's pretty old-fashioned. But the blue-haired ladies lined up the first sunday we were there to tell me which week would be their week "to rock your sweet baby." There are other people fr the seminary there. It's stable & real.

 

I guess...I see a church plant as a pretty big commitment. Birthing a baby or something. You can't be half in. And I don't think dh can really do seminary FT, be all in at a church plant a half hour away, & work FT, & raise 4 dc w/ me. Something's got to give.

[joannqn]

I think the church plant is out of the question regardless of what other things you decide. It sounds like you all will be miserable there and the church will not be helped by someone who is miserable in the job.

[Aubrey]

I can't believe how many of y'all actually read my incoherent jumble of complaints. I've needed someone to talk to so, so much.

 

A million thank yous to all of you!!!!

[Mommyof4ks]

I have to agree that the church plant is off the table. Consistent Biblical truth must be taught to kids or they get confused.

 

:grouphug: as you and your husband make these tough decisions. God provides these 'obstacles' to teach us something (that is yet to be determined I suppose). DH and I grew much closer and stronger as a couple as a result of a frightening event and both of us had 'flaws' pointed out to us. At the end it was a good lesson, but in the beginning the not knowing what the future held was very hard (especially for me since I need to plan for it :D).

 

I will join others in praying for your family and this decision.

[Guest janainaz]

It just sounds like you need to put your wants/needs on the table and come to some sort of agreement and mutual decision regarding the present and the future goal.

 

My dad retires this year. He's worked for the same company for 38 years, climbed the corporate ladder and planned for his "future". It's here. He's 64 and now what.

 

There is a balance in looking to the future and "dreams" and living in the moment and making life livable in the here and now. I have seen couples create a life of chaos and stress all for the hope that their sacrifices will pay off in the "future" - sometimes the hopeful near future (next 3-5 years) and some for the future "future" - meaning ....retirement. But, today is what you have and if it's total chaos - something needs to change for your own sanity. You will regret not being able to wake up with some level of peace.

 

We have some good friends who had a dream. That dream led them down the path of divorce. I'm not saying this is your situation at all - my point is that they needed stability and they needed to stop living in the dream world and start living in reality. Their four kids were suffering and now they are separated from the stress.

 

Today is all you have been given. Make life liveable - little changes can make a difference.

 

Best wishes to you.:001_smile:

[Lisa R.]

one small thing. The car situation. When our lives our busy and stressful, sometimes fixing one issue can bring real relief.

 

You mention in your post that the one car that fits your whole family is one that you cannot drive. Whatever the reason, can you find a way to fix this? Maybe "bite the bullet" and learn to drive the large car or trade it in to get one you can manage?

 

I did without a car with one small child when we were first married. As I look back, I wish we would've found a way to provide a car for me. It was very, very limiting. Even though money was tight then, I think we could've found a way to make it work.

 

Trying to find a solution to your car issue would help part of your day to day life, I think.

[percytruffle]

I guess...I see a church plant as a pretty big commitment. Birthing a baby or something. You can't be half in. And I don't think dh can really do seminary FT, be all in at a church plant a half hour away, & work FT, & raise 4 dc w/ me. Something's got to give.

 

Now for something completely different... Has it occurred to you that your own doubts about the rightness of this choice for your dh and for the rest of you could be God telling you He has somebody else in mind for this church plant situation. Perhaps they need somebody who is less stressed and over committed. Not to sound negative toward your dh in any way, but what if he isn't the best choice for them right now?

 

If it were my family and both of us were unsure about this decision, I'd sooner see my dh take the ft job and postpone seminary than to accept a position which seems incompatible on so many levels. I'd be more likely to follow the path of pray-wait-see, than to jump ahead. I used to make quick, unwise decisions way too much and have learned that often those decisions are lead by us and not by God. His timing is always perfect. It is we who fail to have the proper faith in His plan and jump the gun.

 

Hugs and prayers.

[buddhabelly]

You know I'm not Christian, and I'm not trying to take away from the "pray and listen" advice. I think you should, of course. So, now that's taken care of.......

 

When you (all) made the decision for dh to attend seminary, did you really think that he would leave seminary debt-free? If so, wow. That was extremely ambitious planning, if neither of you have a trust fund. Maybe a childless couple could complete seminary with no debt, but in your situation it would be very unlikely. So.....if you did plan to incur debt while in school, why the sudden need for dh to work full-time? His studies should come first, so they are not "forever."

 

Also, one more consideration. You have never mentioned whether dh is enjoying seminary, or at least being fulfilled by his studies. This should be a consideration too. If this is something important in his life right now (second to his family, of course), leaving seminary might not be this best decision for your family. If he is a seminarian working to pay the bills, that is one identity (and like it or not, many men think one's profession is who you are). But if he is a ___________(whatever the 8-5 job is), that is a whole different ball of wax.

 

And by the way, I read all of your posts because I could never, in a million years, do half of what you do. I am amazed. But I do think you should sleep more. Will your little ones remember the special Christmas dress that you worked all night on, or will they just remember that mama was always tired?

 

Best wishes, and I know you will come to a decision that is right for your family. (Sorry to bypass the church questions, but others have addressed that pretty well.)

 

Julie

[Aubrey]

You know I'm not Christian, and I'm not trying to take away from the "pray and listen" advice. I think you should, of course. So, now that's taken care of.......

 

When you (all) made the decision for dh to attend seminary, did you really think that he would leave seminary debt-free? If so, wow. That was extremely ambitious planning, if neither of you have a trust fund. Maybe a childless couple could complete seminary with no debt, but in your situation it would be very unlikely. So.....if you did plan to incur debt while in school, why the sudden need for dh to work full-time? His studies should come first, so they are not "forever."

 

Also, one more consideration. You have never mentioned whether dh is enjoying seminary, or at least being fulfilled by his studies. This should be a consideration too. If this is something important in his life right now (second to his family, of course), leaving seminary might not be this best decision for your family. If he is a seminarian working to pay the bills, that is one identity (and like it or not, many men think one's profession is who you are). But if he is a ___________(whatever the 8-5 job is), that is a whole different ball of wax.

 

And by the way, I read all of your posts because I could never, in a million years, do half of what you do. I am amazed. But I do think you should sleep more. Will your little ones remember the special Christmas dress that you worked all night on, or will they just remember that mama was always tired?

 

Best wishes, and I know you will come to a decision that is right for your family. (Sorry to bypass the church questions, but others have addressed that pretty well.)

 

Julie

 

You are so kind. I'm touched that you've answered this post, & your answers are very insightful.

 

We did agree not to incur debt for seminary, partly because we incurred too much debt on our previous degrees, partly because I don't figure pastoring is particularly lucrative, lol.

 

BUT...you can't take out loans at this seminary. Something about gov't vs. church & accreditation. You can do a short-term unsubsidized loan for tuition & books, that's it. Dh has had to work FT the whole time we've been here; the difference now is that he's tried several jobs that would work w/ his school schedule, & they just don't pay enough. Besides that, we don't have enough family time, & what we do have is... tense. :lol:

 

Dh wasn't really able to enjoy seminary last semester because there was just too much going on, & he felt guilty about having too little of himself to spread around. He didn't do anything well. Poor guy. But apart from outside worries, he LOVES being here. He loves his profs, the subject, the research, everything. His ideal would be to go up to campus from 8 to 5, do his coursework, studying, etc., & then come home, as if school were his job. If he becomes independently wealthy, that's what he'll do. ;)

 

I can't believe you read all my posts, but I have to, because anybody who knows me KNOWS I should sleep more. I can't stand to sleep--it seems like such wasted time! But I've noticed that I'm friendlier, clearer-headed, & more productive when I've slept. It's just... hard. to. stop. (And then it's hard to go, lol!)

 

But I decided earlier today that the madness has to stop. I can feel yrs being carved off my life the past week or so. Eek! So I'm aiming for 10PM to bed, 6AM to get up. 12-7 would be a good start. :001_huh:

 

Thank you, Julie, for your sweet thoughts & wisdom.

[Nestof3]

Hugs Aubrey.

 

I have my own thoughts on seminary, paid pastoral positions, and such, so I really cannot give you the answer you're looking for in regard to all of that, but I do tend to agree most with what Colleen said.

 

You are under an enormous amount of stress quite often (based on your threads), and I do hope something can be done about that.

[Carol in Cal.]

...I think that you need to find a good church, that you love, to raise your children in.

 

I don't think that having a family who hates the church DH works in is even remotely OK. He can't possibly be successful there if that's the case. Really, that needs to come off the table now.

 

Don't know how it is in your denomination, but in ours, DCE's never make anywhere near as much as MDiv's. The difference is at least 2X, and sometimes as much as 4X, I believe. Falling back to the easier, faster degree will bite you in the long run. And if your DH has a calling to be a pastor, then that is what he should be.

 

Beyond that, I don't know.

 

It is very frustrating to hear that his goals are so divergent and unrealistic. It sounds like he doesn't have any concrete plans to achieve any of them, either. So maybe you're the planner and he's not in the family. I don't know. But here's what I do know--a goal without a plan is just a smokey dream. Goals are great, but realism is also necessary. Where did his goals come from? A book? What are his real heart goals, and what is he willing to give up to get to those?

 

Example--I know someone who has always talked about retiring at 55. But he has never saved in any special way--just a little here and there in a 401K, and no particular focus on debt reduction or anything like that. So now he is 61, and goes around complaining that he couldn't retire at 55. But the truth is, he could have. He just never planned it out and did it. If you asked him what he got for all that money that he spent instead of saving it, he couldn't tell you. Is your DH like that? Because if so, you're going to have to step in and help him get real.

 

In my tradition, the calling to be a pastor is taken very seriously, so that is where we would start--is God calling him to be a pastor or not? It's an all or nothing kind of question. If so, then set up the plan for that to happen. If not, then move on completely. Time to figure out another career that involves actually making a living--and I'm thinking that children's music would be more of a labor of love than a paying concern, so another job that actually makes a living for the family needs to be found IN ADDITION to what ever he does with the children's music.

 

That's the way I see it.

[bkpan]

one small thing. The car situation. When our lives our busy and stressful, sometimes fixing one issue can bring real relief.

 

You mention in your post that the one car that fits your whole family is one that you cannot drive. Whatever the reason, can you find a way to fix this? Maybe "bite the bullet" and learn to drive the large car or trade it in to get one you can manage?

 

I did without a car with one small child when we were first married. As I look back, I wish we would've found a way to provide a car for me. It was very, very limiting. Even though money was tight then, I think we could've found a way to make it work.

 

Trying to find a solution to your car issue would help part of your day to day life, I think.

 

That's funny, that was the thing that I noticed as well. Why can't you just learn to drive the big car??? You could then take on the Awana nights, freeing your dh up.

[Mama Lynx]

I can't believe how many of y'all actually read my incoherent jumble of complaints. I've needed someone to talk to so, so much.

 

A million thank yous to all of you!!!!

 

Aubrey,

 

I read your post, all the way through. I've got nothing to offer you but virtual hugs, but I've got plenty of those! :grouphug:

[Karenciavo]

I realize this is probably the least of your worries, but you've got to learn how to drive that big car! Secondly, I know quite a few men who work full time and go to seminary (we live relatively near to Westminter Philly.) What does he feel called to do? Worship leaders don't need to attend seminary. You desire stability so I would rule out the worship pastor position at the plant and the mission housing. If my husband truly felt called to be in seminary I would support that, but would encourage him to work full time and go to seminary part time.

 

We did agree not to incur debt for seminary, partly because we incurred too much debt on our previous degrees, partly because I don't figure pastoring is particularly lucrative, lol.

 

Join the PCA. :lol:

[Aubrey]

That's funny, that was the thing that I noticed as well. Why can't you just learn to drive the big car??? You could then take on the Awana nights, freeing your dh up.

 

It's not a "big car." It's a suburban named Joseph. :lol: With no speedometer, no gas guage, no power steering.

[Chris in VA]

Aubrey,

You have been so much on my mind that I actually dreamed about you last night!

Know you are constantly in my prayers and thoughts.:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Aubrey]

We've come to a tentative agreement. Dh is going to take this semester off of seminary, look for a real 8-5 job, & continue w/ the church plant.

 

As far as the kids go, he thinks the lady leading right now would be better suited to running the preschool side of things & wants to know if I'd be willing to run the big kids stuff. He even offered me his salary. :glare: :lol:

 

I forgot to mention before that his parents have just resigned at their church--fil was the choir dir, & they stayed thr Christmas. They want to help the church plant, so there's more pressure to stay.

 

Pressure aside, though, after talking, dh feels really called to this. I'm not sure enough that it's wrong to stand in his way, iykwim. And if he's got a real job during the day, I guess I'm willing to wait & see.

 

We can stay in seminary housing for now, but our rent will increase. On the one hand, that feels like a waste of $. On the other hand, even w/ the increase, it's cheaper than anything we could find. And it means not having to add a move to everything else. And it means that if we should have stayed in seminary, it's pretty easy to pick it back up.

 

And I told him I need a car.

 

The amazing thing is, we talked about all these difficult things w/out getting angry or defensive or anything. When we were done, we sat in the living room together, him playing his guitar, & me working with chalk pastels. Thank you again for your prayers. I've noticed more than once what a difference they make. :001_wub:

[bkpan]

It's not a "big car." It's a suburban named Joseph. :lol: With no speedometer, no gas guage, no power steering.

 

You can do it!!!:driving:

 

Aubrey, you will be proud of your accomplishment - eventually you'll wonder what the fuss was about!

:smash: Just keep the tank filled, drive slowly, and do errands around town. It will be good for you and for your dh.

 

Kim

[Chris in VA]

Aubrey,

I will commit to holding you and your hubby/kids in prayer everyday for January. (I promise I'll do a better job than I did blogging "everyday til Jan.1st!")

 

Stand back and watch God work. It's kinda awesome.

 

Chris