Our Grandson

[Scarlett]

Our grandson had his evaluation.  From the little I was able to get out of ds27 they don’t think he is on the spectrum.

The day of the evaluation, which took 6 months to get, sort of sums up a lot of what causes dgs to struggle imo.  The appt was for 11. Ds27’s truck broke down that morning…AGAIN. He had it towed back to the shop. He calls Dh and gets dropped off at dhs work to borrow our car.
 

He calls his wife (still not divorced) and 
that is when he finds out she is at a doctors appointment with her live in boyfriend and is going to miss the appointment for their son. I believe dgs was with her but irrelevant because both parents have to be there. By some miracle ds27 was able to get the clinic to see them at 1. BUT his wife loaned her car to the boyfriend and had no way there. So ds27  had to go pick her up, in our car,  to make the appointment. 
 

Ds27 was on the phone with Dh on his way to pick up his son and wife and he was about to lose it.  I know all of this affects dgs. 
 

They said he is about a year behind which I can agree with. They are going to do further testing and offer some services. Honestly what they need is parenting classes. 

Yesterday both boys moved their mom in with ds27. Hopefully she can be a help with dgs while her vision hopefully recovers enough she can work. 

[Kassia]

Wow, sounds like a lot of chaos in dg's life.  I hope the boys' mom can help a bit.  ETA - parenting classes would be great if they would agree to do that.  

Edited August 26 by Kassia

[Scarlett]

In talking to our youngest yesterday (not the father of grandson) he said he believes grandson’s mom does not want to be a mother.  I have had this impression several times too. Ds23 gave me an interesting statistic which I have yet to verify.  He said a child raised without an involved father fares worse over all than a child raised without an involved mother.   

[EKS]

21 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

He said a child raised without an involved father fares worse over all than a child raised without an involved mother.   

This does not surprise me, actually.  In general, a mother's job is to be nurturing, to display unconditional acceptance, that sort of thing.  A father's job is to nudge kids out of their comfort zone but also to give hard limits.  Guess which thing is more important when it comes to adulting?

[madteaparty]

14 minutes ago, EKS said:

This does not surprise me, actually.  In general, a mother's job is to be nurturing, to display unconditional acceptance, that sort of thing.  A father's job is to nudge kids out of their comfort zone but also to give hard limits.  Guess which thing is more important when it comes to adulting?

This memo has entirely been missed in my household and pretty much every household I’m familiar with. Hope my kids make it 😉 

[lauraw4321]

11 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

This memo has entirely been missed in my household and pretty much every household I’m familiar with. Hope my kids make it 😉 

 

26 minutes ago, EKS said:

This does not surprise me, actually.  In general, a mother's job is to be nurturing, to display unconditional acceptance, that sort of thing.  A father's job is to nudge kids out of their comfort zone but also to give hard limits.  Guess which thing is more important when it comes to adulting?

This has been the division between my DH and I. He's definitely the nudger and I'm the comforter. Over time, I've become more "nudge-y" and he's become more "comfort-y."  

He certainly views it as his job to say outlandish things to make sure the kids are skeptical. 

Anything that even hints of being unlikely / unbelievable, they come running to me to verify.

[Scarlett]

I think it does underscore the importance of having a mother and a father. They do provide different roles, of course. Unfortunately, in our imperfect world there are lots of broken families, blended families, single parent families.

my brother and I both were raised with no father. My mom did not remarry until we were in our 30s. I can see in my life and my brother’s life. The different ways having no father adversely affected us.

However, also a boyfriend or a stepfather living in the home with children poses and astronomically high risk of abuse. That is the memo that my mom got and that’s why she did not date or remarry in our childhood.

Unfortunately, there’s no perfect solution once a family is no longer intact.

for my grandsons situation, I do believe his home life is causing a lot of his issues. In my opinion, our son is a better father than his wife is a mother however, I do think he has areas he could improve in.

[EKS]

2 hours ago, madteaparty said:

This memo has entirely been missed in my household and pretty much every household I’m familiar with. Hope my kids make it 😉 

It was a statement about averages, not specifics.

As long as kids get a good balance of both, it actually doesn't matter who is doing what.

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, madteaparty said:

This memo has entirely been missed in my household and pretty much every household I’m familiar with. Hope my kids make it 😉 

I don’t really understand your post. Are you saying you know of no households were the mother is the  comforter and the father is the nudger? 

[Scarlett]

I remember a book I read when my son was born. It talked about how (for boys specifically) mothers are most essential up to age 6, fathers are added in as being more essential than before from 6 to 12 and then community is added in as important  after that. 
Obviously broad strokes and a lot of people can fill those roles but I thought the general idea was interesting and held true for my  son. 
It also explains  the deficiencies my brother and I experienced. 
 

[Frances]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I don’t really understand your post. Are you saying you know of no households were the mother is the  comforter and the father is the nudger? 

I think the hard limits coming from the father rather than mother is the one I don’t generally see. Where I can see the overall general description fitting my traditional upbringing, I don’t see it so much fitting most two parent households I’m familiar with today, including my own. But I agree with @EKSthat as long as a child is getting all of it, it doesn’t matter so much the gender of the parent or caregiver providing it.

Edited August 27 by Frances

[BusyMom5]

I am sorry your grandson has so much disruption in his life, and I agree that the unstable adults are probably a big part of the problems he has with regulation.  So many kids are struggling with similar issues, I see it all the time where I live.  Parenting classes would be great,  child development courses, reading books on setting up routines, discipline, and structure- all great ideas if the parents are willing- even just one parent.  

 

[kbutton]

7 hours ago, Scarlett said:

In talking to our youngest yesterday (not the father of grandson) he said he believes grandson’s mom does not want to be a mother.  I have had this impression several times too. 

A relative of mine partnered with someone like this, though that parent wants all the credit. It’s been a real trip. It sounds like he will have a lot more stability once the divorce goes through, but he will have to stop dragging the wife to things after the divorce. She shows up, or she doesn’t. If she doesn’t bring the kid, and it’s her custody time, but he shows up, then it’s on the mom. I am sure the professionals have seen this before.

It sounds like he needs guidance on how to co-parent in this environment, not just normal parenting advice.

Poor kid.

[Drama Llama]

7 hours ago, Scarlett said:

He said a child raised without an involved father fares worse over all than a child raised without an involved mother.   

I would assume this has to do with the fact that women headed households are more likely to experience poverty, and poverty is bad for kids.  

[EKS]

22 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

I would assume this has to do with the fact that women headed households are more likely to experience poverty, and poverty is bad for kids.

Assuming that the statement was based on actual studies, if the studies were any good, they would control for income and other SES factors.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

A relative of mine partnered with someone like this, though that parent wants all the credit. It’s been a real trip. It sounds like he will have a lot more stability once the divorce goes through, but he will have to stop dragging the wife to things after the divorce. She shows up, or she doesn’t. If she doesn’t bring the kid, and it’s her custody time, but he shows up, then it’s on the mom. I am sure the professionals have seen this before.

It sounds like he needs guidance on how to co-parent in this environment, not just normal parenting advice.

Poor kid.

Ds27 was told the clinic would not do the evaluation unless both parents were there. Thus the dragging her to this appointment.  I really feel she was trying to sabotage the appointment. 
 

Yes about the mom wanting all the credit. She takes dgs to therapy twice a week and the appointments are always on her days. I asked ds27 if he had spoken to the therapist or is he getting all of his info from his wife and that was his reply is that he had to get it from his wife because the appointments are not on his days. I said you can go to any doctors appointment or therapy appointment that your son has regardless of whose day it is. He looked a little deer in the headlights when I told him that. And I know part of it is that he has to work and missing work is difficult because he is struggling financially so much. I told him to at least call the therapist and get information that way, even if he couldn’t go to every appointment.

There is just not a lot we can do really to affect change. We try to make comments when we can without alienating him. He was super upset when he thought his wife was going to miss the appointment and he called his dad talking a little crazy. Dh talk to him calmly and reminded him to stay calm.

I had forgotten that she is living with some guy in the same apartment complex that ds27 lives in. Our younger son thinks that is a terrible idea because she is still in his immediate vicinity. However, I can see the benefits of them living close together while sharing custody.

and now that our son‘s mom is living with our oldest son. I am not sure what the dynamic will be.

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

I would assume this has to do with the fact that women headed households are more likely to experience poverty, and poverty is bad for kids.  

 

1 hour ago, EKS said:

Assuming that the statement was based on actual studies, if the studies were any good, they would control for income and other SES factors.

I might try to ask my son where he got that statistic. It is interesting to me. I do think it comes from more than just women being in poverty. I think it has to do with kids actually needing a father. Or a father figure of some kind in their life. Grandfather, uncle, Close family friend, there are lots of ways that this role can be filled. Especially when we are talking about boys. 

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, Frances said:

I think the hard limits coming from the father rather than mother is the one I don’t generally see. Where I can see the overall general description fitting my traditional upbringing, I don’t see it so much fitting most two parent households I’m familiar with today, including my own. But I agree with @EKSthat as long as a child is getting all of it, it doesn’t matter so much the gender of the parent or caregiver providing it.

Well, what do I know. Lol I did not have a father in my life at all. I do think it negatively affected me much more than I realized when I was young and I know for a fact, my brother was negatively affected. I chose poorly for my first husband. And my brother went off the rails with addiction. 

[kbutton]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Ds27 was told the clinic would not do the evaluation unless both parents were there. Thus the dragging her to this appointment.  I really feel she was trying to sabotage the appointment. 

I understand. I’m talking about post divorce.

 

[Scarlett]

Just now, kbutton said:

I understand. I’m talking about post divorce.

 

Well they have been married for 4 1/2  years and have lived together only about 1 1/2 years of that. Getting a divorce is very low on their priority list 🤦🏻‍♀️

[fairfarmhand]

49 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Ds27 was told the clinic would not do the evaluation unless both parents were there. Thus the dragging her to this appointment.  I really feel she was trying to sabotage the appointment. 
 

Yes about the mom wanting all the credit. She takes dgs to therapy twice a week and the appointments are always on her days. I asked ds27 if he had spoken to the therapist or is he getting all of his info from his wife and that was his reply is that he had to get it from his wife because the appointments are not on his days. I said you can go to any doctors appointment or therapy appointment that your son has regardless of whose day it is. He looked a little deer in the headlights when I told him that. And I know part of it is that he has to work and missing work is difficult because he is struggling financially so much. I told him to at least call the therapist and get information that way, even if he couldn’t go to every appointment.

There is just not a lot we can do really to affect change. We try to make comments when we can without alienating him. He was super upset when he thought his wife was going to miss the appointment and he called his dad talking a little crazy. Dh talk to him calmly and reminded him to stay calm.

I had forgotten that she is living with some guy in the same apartment complex that ds27 lives in. Our younger son thinks that is a terrible idea because she is still in his immediate vicinity. However, I can see the benefits of them living close together while sharing custody.

and now that our son‘s mom is living with our oldest son. I am not sure what the dynamic will be.

I think giving him ideas of how to be involved is the best you can do. It’s likely not occurred to him to call the therapist. He’s go so much on his plate he may just have his head down and try to do the next thing.

[madteaparty]

7 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I don’t really understand your post. Are you saying you know of no households were the mother is the  comforter and the father is the nudger? 

No, that’s not what I’m saying, lol. Seems a bit useless to explain so I will save us both the time 🙂 

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

No, that’s not what I’m saying, lol. Seems a bit useless to explain so I will save us both the time 🙂 

Well ok then 

[Frances]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Well, what do I know. Lol I did not have a father in my life at all. I do think it negatively affected me much more than I realized when I was young and I know for a fact, my brother was negatively affected. I chose poorly for my first husband. And my brother went off the rails with addiction. 

Certainly studies show the effects on children of not being raised in intact families, so I don’t doubt for a minute that not having your father in your life at all had a pretty profound influence. I just don’t think it’s as simplistic as nurturing vs nudging and who does or doesn’t set the hard limits. 

I think your son and grandson are very fortunate to have you and your husband in their lives!

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Well they have been married for 4 1/2  years and have lived together only about 1 1/2 years of that. Getting a divorce is very low on their priority list 🤦🏻‍♀️

Oh, I thought you said something about a divorce. Maybe I missed something.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

Oh, I thought you said something about a divorce. Maybe I missed something.

Oh sure… they need a divorce. Just not sure when it will happen. 

[Scarlett]

I asked my son about his comment. He said this 

I miss spoke when saying they fair better. There aren't enough motherless households that they make a statistic of it. They do have statistics on the affects of fatherlessnes 

[Ann.without.an.e]

I don't really have answers @Scarlett but I wanted to comment with ((hugs)) and I'm sorry that you have to watch your grandson be in a difficult situation. It must be incredibly hard to not be able to fix it? I know it would be for me. 

[SKL]

17 hours ago, Frances said:

I think the hard limits coming from the father rather than mother is the one I don’t generally see.

My FOO experience agrees with you.

My folks are still married (63 years now) and raised 3 boys and 3 girls.  Both loved and cared for all their kids.  My mom was clearly the disciplinarian; my dad was mild and kind, which meant that on those rare occasions when he did discipline, all it took was a word!  With the partial exception of when my brothers were tweens / teens and decided they didn't have to care what Mom said - then she asked my dad to discipline them, which he still didn't do very much.  😛  But I don't think this reality caused any major problems.  I mean, the 6 of us haven't been to jail, finished school, are gainfully employed, and handle our households well enough to stay off of Dr. Phil (so far).

I don't think our upbringing (stronger mom, milder dad) is really as unusual as the 1950s media have primed us to believe.  😛

[SKL]

On 8/27/2024 at 9:31 AM, Scarlett said:

 He said a child raised without an involved father fares worse over all than a child raised without an involved mother.   

I haven't heard it said this way before.  I've heard of the benefits of having an involved father, but I think the benefits of having a stable and caring mom are still at least as important, if not more so.

To be fair, when it's one or the other, it's almost always the mom who takes the responsibilites.  So is there really comparable data for both groups?

Anyhoo, I hope your son is able to continue / increase his influence over the baby.  It does sound like the baby's mom is just not into it, and maybe it's worth considering a custody change.

[SKL]

10 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I asked my son about his comment. He said this 

I miss spoke when saying they fair better. There aren't enough motherless households that they make a statistic of it. They do have statistics on the affects of fatherlessnes 

I read this after my above post.  This makes sense to me.

[Lecka]

This comment was said to a dad where maybe it could come across like — he will have to fight to stay involved, and he needs to know it’s really worth it.

 

In retrospect I have had things said to me that I thought were “general” statements, but were more tailored to me.  
 

Scarlet, I’m sorry things are going this way.