How do I help my ASD young adult and should I Inform a new therapist about specific issues?

[Hannah]

*  Update posted in thread below on 19 Apr *

My 19yo Dd has an ASD spectrum diagnosis and is navigating adulthood independently at university. 

Her emotions resemble a square wave with extreme amplitude, either on an emotional high, or completely in the doldrums.  These correlate directly to how she perceives herself being treated by her friends and whether she feels included or not.  She has a very gregarious nature and attracts people, but unfortunately with those she likes, she latches on immediately, calling them friends within a week and she becomes 'high maintenance' quickly.  She has a few close friends who value her, are accommodating of her and have also been able to put boundaries in place that she respects and understands. 

[I will be deleting the next few paragraphs, but I want to give detail and context - ETA this has turned out very long, so skip to the next brackets if you'd like]

[deleted for privacy]

[...]

Of course she is again heartbroken, wondering 'what is wrong with me?' and 'why do people always desert me?'.

I don't think all of this is on her, but Dh and I have tried to talk to her about becoming 'too much too soon' and putting emotional pressure on people, but she feels that we are criticizing her and she does not listen or can't comprehend our advise. 

During high school she was with a therapist with whom she discussed all off her relationships and who helped her immensely to navigate these. She also found herself a therapist on campus last year.  As the friendships were seemingly going well, from what I can gather they worked on dealing with academic anxiety.  Unfortunately she is no longer available as Dd has moved.

Dd has agreed to an initial consultation with a psychologist in our area for next week when she is here on recess.  If they get along, she can continue with her remotely and see her in person when she's home.  

The question I have is whether I should fill the therapist in on these incidents and what I perceive may be the cause?  What she hears from Dd on the day is going to very much depend on where she is on her square curve on the day.  I may, however, be overstepping.

Also, how do Dh and I help Dd to read the friendship cues and understand boundaries?

 

 

Edited April 19 by Hannah
Deleted a portion of the post and spelling of cues

[Rosie_0801]

Yes, you should tell the therapist.

But your dd may not be developmentally ready to understand what you're telling her, or perhaps not desperate enough yet.

Unpleasant as it is, these are normal autistic people problems. Sucks though. Probably she needs more Aspie friends.

From what I can tell, ghosting is considered polite in some ways, more polite than saying things people don't want to hear. I think that's weird, but hey, I'm autistic...

[Katy]

Ghosting can be polite. It’s a way of creating distance without any big confrontations. Then if you run into each other again later you can resume a friendly (but not as intense) relationship easier than you could if you told the person they violated a bunch of unspoken social rules and freaked you out. You might even eventually become genuinely friends, but that would likely take years to build trust. 

I’d tell the therapist what’s going on too. The way to solve this is for DD to act less desperate, and that’s difficult to learn for even the neurotypical. 

[Hannah]

23 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Yes, you should tell the therapist.

But your dd may not be developmentally ready to understand what you're telling her, or perhaps not desperate enough yet.

Unpleasant as it is, these are normal autistic people problems. Sucks though. Probably she needs more Aspie friends.

From what I can tell, ghosting is considered polite in some ways, more polite than saying things people don't want to hear. I think that's weird, but hey, I'm autistic...

Thanks for your insight Rosie. 

Her high school therapist actually did tell me that she though Dd was emotionally about 3 years behind developmentally, so I guess we should see it as a nearly 17yo in an adult environment.  It does suck that these are normal autistic problems and my heart really hurts for her.  

Ghosting really sucks too, even if the intention is to be polite.  I think Dd would prefer a straight conversation so that she knows where she stands and can learn from her errors.

[Hannah]

13 minutes ago, Katy said:

Ghosting can be polite. It’s a way of creating distance without any big confrontations. Then if you run into each other again later you can resume a friendly (but not as intense) relationship.

To me it seems cowardly and without any compassion or empathy for the person who is just cast aside.  How does one go from intense daily communication to nothing at all in one swoop?  Is there no longer a responsibility towards the other person to at least give them a reason why you're cutting them off?  I have a lot of respect for the friend that did try to say why he was going to simmer for a while.  

[Hannah]

25 minutes ago, Katy said:

I’d tell the therapist what’s going on too. The way to solve this is for DD to act less desperate, and that’s difficult to learn for even the neurotypical. 

Thank you for verbalizing what she needs to learn.  I struggle with finding the right vocabulary to express to her what she is missing and why this might be putting people off.

Edited April 3 by Hannah

[Rosie_0801]

Could you explain it as a trust issue? That trust should be given gradually?

[Hannah]

52 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Could you explain it as a trust issue? That trust should be given gradually?

That would be a good start, thanks Rosie.

[Katy]

1 hour ago, Hannah said:

To me it seems cowardly and without any compassion or empathy for the person who is just cast aside.  How does one go from intense daily communication to nothing at all in one swoop?  Is there no longer a responsibility towards the other person to at least give them a reason why you're cutting them off?  I have a lot of respect for the friend that did try to say why he was going to simmer for a while.  

This is going to sound harsh. I don’t want it to be. My 5 year old is on the spectrum too. When the former friend never wanted intense daily communication, they likely have no idea how to handle it. They don’t know if she’s got autism or if she’s some sort of narcissist, or if it’s something much worse and they’re dealing with someone who is literally dangerous. They just know they fear her and her weird behavior. Even if she says she’s autistic, unfortunately some sociopaths claim to be on the spectrum to mask sociopathy. 

All the friends know is she is violating a lot of social boundaries and screaming to look at all of the red flags. So no, they have zero obligation to make her feel better. Their responsibility is to keep themselves safe, and she is NOT acting safe. Most people will give people the benefit of the doubt when it’s possible. So if she relaxes and stops acting in ways that literally scare them, they’ll probably resume a cautious friendship. I wonder if there’s someone else at her school on the spectrum that she could be friends with. 

[Katy]

Also, I don’t think that’s socially the behavior of a 17 year old. I think most kids painfully learn those lessons between 11-14. That’s why middle school is so horrible for many of them. 

[KSera]

3 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Probably she needs more Aspie friends.

This. Making friends with other young adults on the spectrum made a world of difference for mine. 

[Catwoman]

Hannah, I hate to ask this, but are you sure your daughter is psychologically and emotionally ready to be living away from home? Do you think she might be better off moving back home where you can provide more of the emotional support she needs?

From what you have described, it sounds like she is desperate for love, attention, and acceptance, but it isn’t realistic for her to get that level of support from people who don’t know her that well, and who are probably overwhelmed by her neediness. It also appears that she has an incredibly high-level of expectation for new relationships, and most people just aren’t comfortable with that level of intensity.

Also, it doesn’t sound like your dd is the most forgiving person, and that she has certain expectations of her friends and boyfriends, and when those people don’t meet those expectations, she doesn’t seem to want to give them a second chance, even when they attempt to contact her again later to rekindle the relationships.

I feel very sad for your daughter, and I think you should definitely discuss these things with her therapist, so hopefully the therapist will be able to help her learn how to deal with her relationships in a healthier way.

Edited April 3 by Catwoman

[Catwoman]

3 hours ago, Hannah said:

To me it seems cowardly and without any compassion or empathy for the person who is just cast aside.  How does one go from intense daily communication to nothing at all in one swoop?  Is there no longer a responsibility towards the other person to at least give them a reason why you're cutting them off?  I have a lot of respect for the friend that did try to say why he was going to simmer for a while.  

Honestly, I agree with you, and I think it’s cowardly, too, but because it is happening so often, I’m wondering if it’s because your daughter has a fairly intense personality, and maybe the people are worried that she might have a bad temper and get very angry if they try to explain why they don’t want to have a relationship with her anymore. Or maybe they just feel guilty about hurting her feelings and are taking the cowardly way out.

Either way, I think it’s awful, because it’s such a helpless feeling to be rejected and not know why. 😞 

Edited April 3 by Catwoman
AutoCorrect went wild with commas

[TechWife]

My adult ds has ASD, so I’m speaking from a place of experience.

There’s a saying in the disability advocacy field - “Nothing about me without me.” It has wide application in the area of policy and accommodation, but it is also personal. 

I think you should ask her if it’s okay for you to talk to the therapist. Without that permission, you risk making it more difficult for trust to be built between her & the therapist. The only time it’s okay to talk to the therapist without her permission is if she is engaging in life threatening behavior. It might also be appropriate for you to have your own appointment to talk about how this all affects you, but that’s your therapy, not hers. I don’t think I’d see the same therapist without her knowing you did so, though. 

As other’s have mentioned, people ghost for a lot of reasons. Sometimes people don’t have the energy or knowledge they need to address difficult situations. Sometimes it comes when the person who has done the ghosting has  tried to establish boundaries, address inappropriate or undesirable interactions or felt threatened by the speech (including tone), manner or actions of the other person. As hard as it may be, your daughter very well could be missing a lot of cues and not understanding a lot of conversations. Even harder, she likely doesn’t realize what she’s missing.

In addition to a therapist, direct instruction through a good etiquette class and/or a class on interpersonal skills might be of benefit to her. If she doesn’t want to do a class or one isn’t available, she might be willing to read some good books or watch some videos.

Edited April 3 by TechWife

[catz]

As someone who has worked with tweens/teens/young adults including neurodiverse ones and as someone who has launched kids to college in recent history, I would just say maturity doesn't happen for a NT kid or close to NT leaning kid one day at 18.  Young adults are away from their support systems for the first time, learning to navigate adult relationships, trying to build new friendships, have healthy boundaries.  They may have emotional childhood baggage of their own,  They may not understand the ins and outs of neurodiversity.  In some of these situations, I think the expectations on neurotypical kids/young adults to be perfect with empathy and communications may be too much to expect.  Being in the middle of some of these situations, I've found very different stories on each side.  

 

[pinball]

4 hours ago, Katy said:

This is going to sound harsh. I don’t want it to be. My 5 year old is on the spectrum too. When the former friend never wanted intense daily communication, they likely have no idea how to handle it. They don’t know if she’s got autism or if she’s some sort of narcissist, or if it’s something much worse and they’re dealing with someone who is literally dangerous. They just know they fear her and her weird behavior. Even if she says she’s autistic, unfortunately some sociopaths claim to be on the spectrum to mask sociopathy. 

All the friends know is she is violating a lot of social boundaries and screaming to look at all of the red flags. So no, they have zero obligation to make her feel better. Their responsibility is to keep themselves safe, and she is NOT acting safe. Most people will give people the benefit of the doubt when it’s possible. So if she relaxes and stops acting in ways that literally scare them, they’ll probably resume a cautious friendship. I wonder if there’s someone else at her school on the spectrum that she could be friends with. 

It doesn’t sound harsh. It sounds ridiculous and OTT.

There is no way you can extrapolate all this from a couple posts about the DD.

I think you watch too much crap on YouTube 

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, pinball said:

It doesn’t sound harsh. It sounds ridiculous and OTT.

There is no way you can extrapolate all this from a couple posts about the DD.

I think you watch too much crap on YouTube 

I have to say that I was wondering if Katy knows more about this situation than I do (maybe from past threads I missed?) because I can’t figure out why she would think anyone FEARS Hannah’s dd or thinks she is DANGEROUS. 

I’m sensing a very well-meaning girl who is still a bit immature and socially inept. I can’t imagine anyone fearing a girl who just seems a little desperate for friendship and companionship.

[Hannah]

4 hours ago, Katy said:

This is going to sound harsh. I don’t want it to be. My 5 year old is on the spectrum too. When the former friend never wanted intense daily communication, they likely have no idea how to handle it. They don’t know if she’s got autism or if she’s some sort of narcissist, or if it’s something much worse and they’re dealing with someone who is literally dangerous. They just know they fear her and her weird behavior. Even if she says she’s autistic, unfortunately some sociopaths claim to be on the spectrum to mask sociopathy. 

All the friends know is she is violating a lot of social boundaries and screaming to look at all of the red flags. So no, they have zero obligation to make her feel better. Their responsibility is to keep themselves safe, and she is NOT acting safe. Most people will give people the benefit of the doubt when it’s possible. So if she relaxes and stops acting in ways that literally scare them, they’ll probably resume a cautious friendship. I wonder if there’s someone else at her school on the spectrum that she could be friends with. 

Gosh, that does hurt.  Comparing her to a narcissist or sociopath?  

I have written about the interactions that have concerned me and have become too intense over time, and those are the ones she needs to learn to manage.  Not all of her friendships are this way.

She is a really fun person and that is why she has an active social life.  Poeple invite her out bowling, or to functions and other social events.  By no means all of her interactions scare people.  I just cannot agree that it's polite to just cut people off, but I do realize that my cultural expectations of going "no-contact" is different to many in the USA.

Unfortunately nobody at her school walks around with an 'I'm autistic' label to make identifying them easier.  

[Hannah]

3 hours ago, KSera said:

This. Making friends with other young adults on the spectrum made a world of difference for mine. 

There are no specific ASD clubs or social groups where she can meet people on the spectrum. The "nerdy" friends that she plays online D&D with are probably the closest.  Unfortunately, those friends are also too far away to meet up regularly, but they have done done so a few times and they have also gone camping together where they enjoyed playing board games and going game watching.

[Hannah]

3 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Hannah, I hate to ask this, but are you sure your daughter is psychologically and emotionally ready to be living away from home? Do you think she might be better off moving back home where you can provide more of the emotional support she needs?

From what you have described, it sounds like she is desperate for love, attention, and acceptance, but it isn’t realistic for her to get that level of support from people who don’t know her that well, and who are probably overwhelmed by her neediness. It also appears that she has an incredibly high-level of expectation for new relationships, and most people just aren’t comfortable with that level of intensity.

Also, it doesn’t sound like your dd is the most forgiving person, and that she has certain expectations of her friends and boyfriends, and when those people don’t meet those expectations, she doesn’t seem to want to give them a second chance, even when they attempt to contact her again later to rekindle the relationships.

I feel very sad for your daughter, and I think you should definitely discuss these things with her therapist, so hopefully the therapist will be able to help her learn how to deal with her relationships in a healthier way.

I would have loved for her to have a few more years at home where I could guide her, but there are no universities close to home that would allow her to study from home.  The best we can do are daily check ins.  

You're right, she is desperate for love and acceptance and as Rosie pointed out, she trusts too easily that people will be as kind as her good friends are.  She does get intense too quickly and there are people who can manage that, and others that cannot.  I understand that fully and that is the aspect of relationships she needs to learn.  

Her thinking is very black and white (another manifestation of autism), but we are working on learning grace and to give people second chances.   

[Hannah]

16 hours ago, TechWife said:

My adult ds has ASD, so I’m speaking from a place of experience.

There’s a saying in the disability advocacy field - “Nothing about me without me.” It has wide application in the area of policy and accommodation, but it is also personal. 

I think you should ask her if it’s okay for you to talk to the therapist. Without that permission, you risk making it more difficult for trust to be built between her & the therapist. The only time it’s okay to talk to the therapist without her permission is if she is engaging in life threatening behavior. It might also be appropriate for you to have your own appointment to talk about how this all affects you, but that’s your therapy, not hers. I don’t think I’d see the same therapist without her knowing you did so, though. 

As other’s have mentioned, people ghost for a lot of reasons. Sometimes people don’t have the energy or knowledge they need to address difficult situations. Sometimes it comes when the person who has done the ghosting has  tried to establish boundaries, address inappropriate or undesirable interactions or felt threatened by the speech (including tone), manner or actions of the other person. As hard as it may be, your daughter very well could be missing a lot of cues and not understanding a lot of conversations. Even harder, she likely doesn’t realize what she’s missing.

In addition to a therapist, direct instruction through a good etiquette class and/or a class on interpersonal skills might be of benefit to her. If she doesn’t want to do a class or one isn’t available, she might be willing to read some good books or watch some videos.

Thank you TechWife.  I was and still am hesitant to talk to the therapist, hence the question, and I think you've answered it for me.  The alternative I can think of is to ask Dd if we can prepare together.  I think she'd be comfortable with that and I can then ask her to describe to the therapist what has happened with these friends.  And to also discuss what is going well with her other friendships.  That might be the opening that the therapist needs. 

She is definitely missing cues.  The work she did with her therapist in high school helped her to identify cues and then she knew what people expected of her.  I think the pressures are higher now and that does make her more needy and blind to cues.  

Edited April 4 by Hannah
cue not queues

[Hannah]

47 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I have to say that I was wondering if Katy knows more about this situation than I do (maybe from past threads I missed?) because I can’t figure out why she would think anyone FEARS Hannah’s dd or thinks she is DANGEROUS. 

I’m sensing a very well-meaning girl who is still a bit immature and socially inept. I can’t imagine anyone fearing a girl who just seems a little desperate for friendship and companionship.

I have never written anything about Dd before other than saying that I have a child on the spectrum.

The people she becomes too intense with too soon after a short space of time do retreat fairly quickly, but it is the the ones that have ghosted her after having known her for more than six months that really hurt.  I don't think they fear her, but somehow she oversteps and becomes too much for them as well. We need to figure out how she can avoid that.

Edited April 3 by Hannah

[TechWife]

9 minutes ago, Hannah said:

Thank you TechWife.  I was and still am hesitant to talk to the therapist, hence the question, and I think you've answered it for me.  The alternative I can think of is to ask Dd if we can prepare together.  I think she'd be comfortable with that and I can then ask her to describe to the therapist what has happened with these friends.  And to also discuss what is going well with her other friendships.  That might be the opening that the therapist needs. 

She is definitely missing queues.  The work she did with her therapist in high school helped her to identify queues and then she knew what people expected of her.  I think the pressures are higher now and that does make her more needy and blind to queues.  

I think preparing together is a great idea if she's willing. I hope everything goes well for her.

[Rosie_0801]

1 hour ago, Hannah said:

The people she becomes too intense with too soon after a short space of time do retreat fairly quickly, but it is the the ones that have ghosted her after having known her for more than six months that really hurt.  I don't think they fear her, but somehow she oversteps and becomes too much for them as well. We need to figure out how she can avoid that.

It's the Buddhist detachment thing, which is very, very hard to learn.

As for her ability to be a forgiving person, she lives a life of what feels like near constant betrayal. That wears a person down.

 

I would talk to the therapist without telling dd. A therapist isn't going to jeopardise the job by saying "your mum said..." and they will need this info, which your daughter may be too embarrassed to provide, to do their job properly.

[Hannah]

I think she has a ways to go to learn detachment. She feels intensely. 

We spoke about it today and she will give the boy who explained himself a second chance. It was hard for her to hear, but he was honest and courageous in telling her how he felt. In her words, “he did not just throw me away”, which is how she felt from the people ghosting her or the girls ostracising her. She won’t forgive them easily. We agreed that she should wait for this boy to contact her, rather than her him, and she will stick to that. I do think he will reach out as promised. He’s a nice kid. 

It is end of term and this evening she was invited to go bowling and to a restaurant with a new group of acquaintances. I checked in via text a few minutes ago and the square curve is at the emotional high again. She’s having loads of fun. I’ll have the conversation in the morning about acquaintances not being friends yet and include your suggestions to talk about trust being given gradually. She needs more precise language than “you’re asking too much” and this thread has helped me to understand that. I need to break it down and explain it as best I can.

I am leaning towards asking Dd’s permission to let me talk to the therapist for a few minutes to explain how she needs relationship help. That’s how we did it when she was younger, so it won’t be an entirely new idea to her. I’ll need to see what she’s open to and otherwise walk her through what she needs to explain. I doubt that she’ll be embarrassed. She overshares!! 

Edited April 3 by Hannah

[WendyLady]

I have a young adult with a big diagnosis. Since he started college, we moved, plus he mostly lives at college away from home. That means he has changed medical doctors and therapists a couple of times, and that is so hard - besides the insurance stuff, it is also tricky to get someone up to speed when you have done all of the assessments 6 months ago with a previous provider. It's not that I don't want a new provider to be thorough and have an open mind, but my son doesn't really want to have to start from the beginning again...

I have a one page paper with his mental health history laid out in a simple way. I list previous providers and meds, current doctor, current meds, diagnosis. I have a brief summary of his previous issues and any concerns he is noticing now. My son has read the note and is comfortable with me giving it to his providers - which I have done in person and by email, depending on the situation. A good provider would never rely on a document like that for all background info, but I think it s a good place to start when there is a complex history. 

I wonder if your daughter would be open to something like that? You wouldn't have to attend her session, but you could just give a little background info to the provider that your daughter is comfortable with. 

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

It's the Buddhist detachment thing, which is very, very hard to learn.

As for her ability to be a forgiving person, she lives a life of what feels like near constant betrayal. That wears a person down.

 

I would talk to the therapist without telling dd. A therapist isn't going to jeopardise the job by saying "your mum said..." and they will need this info, which your daughter may be too embarrassed to provide, to do their job properly.

It’s not about the therapist putting their job in danger. It’s about trust between the therapist and OP’s daughter and OP’s daughter and OP. 

[Hannah]

1 minute ago, WendyLady said:

 

I wonder if your daughter would be open to something like that? You wouldn't have to attend her session, but you could just give a little background info to the provider that your daughter is comfortable with. 

I like this idea, thanks WendyLady. We can make a list of previous providers, test used,  successful modalities of therapy, etc. That will probably give the psychologist much more info than Dd will realise. I am not going to attend the session with her, but I do want the issues and incidents to be raised.  We could write something cryptic and say “Dd will tell you all about it in the session”, which will also guide her to ask the right questions.

[Rosie_0801]

31 minutes ago, Hannah said:

It is end of term and this evening she was invited to go bowling and to a restaurant with a new group of acquaintances. I checked in via text a few minutes ago and the square curve is at the emotional high again. She’s having loads of fun. I’ll have the conversation in the morning about acquaintances not being friends yet and include your suggestions to talk about trust being given gradually. She needs more precise language than “you’re asking too much” and this thread has helped me to understand that. I need to break it down and explain it as best I can.

There must be models of "pair bonding" stages for friendships. 

She must have rules herself for who is and isn't allowed to touch her and where. There are rules about who we can touch with our emotions too, but they are, of course, tricker.

[Rosie_0801]

3 minutes ago, TechWife said:

It’s not about the therapist putting their job in danger. It’s about trust between the therapist and OP’s daughter and OP’s daughter and OP. 

I know that's what you are talking about and I understand your perspective.

[Hannah]

Just now, Rosie_0801 said:

There must be models of "pair bonding" stages for friendships. 

She must have rules herself for who is and isn't allowed to touch her and where. There are rules about who we can afflict our emotions on too, but they are, of course, tricker.

I will need to research more on pair bonding.
She definitely has the rules around mutual agreements on physical consent covered and feels strongly about that. I really like the analogy to rules on emotional consent. Another great idea on how to break it down for her. 

[Lecka]

I don’t know names of resources off the top of my head, but there are things where you have a bullseye or a drawing of a person with circles around it.

 

You start with the most personal family members and say what is appropriate with them and why.  Next close family and friends.  Next people you have known as a group but they aren’t specifically your friends.  Next acquaintances.  You can discuss what to write for each level, and name people in that level.  Talk about how long it takes to move between levels and what that looks like.  
 

I don’t know if you are covering social media usage but this is also supposed to be good for explaining who to share things with and what is appropriate.  If something is private, who can it be shared with?  What can be shared with anybody?  
 

Edit:  some people keep the paper and review it once it’s made, for review, and to keep a visual available.  
 

 

Edited April 3 by Lecka

[PronghornD]

4 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I don’t know names of resources off the top of my head, but there are things where you have a bullseye or a drawing of a person with circles around it.

 

You start with the most personal family members and say what is appropriate with them and why.  Next close family and friends.  Next people you have known as a group but they aren’t specifically your friends.  Next acquaintances.  You can discuss what to write for each level, and name people in that level.  Talk about how long it takes to move between levels and what that looks like.  
 

I don’t know if you are covering social media usage but this is also supposed to be good for explaining who to share things with and what is appropriate.  If something is private, who can it be shared with?  What can be shared with anybody?  
 

 

I used this method with an adopted child with attachment issues. I think we called it "Circles of Love." Maybe googling that phrase will give the OP information.

[Hannah]

9 hours ago, Lecka said:

I don’t know names of resources off the top of my head, but there are things where you have a bullseye or a drawing of a person with circles around it.

You start with the most personal family members and say what is appropriate with them and why.  Next close family and friends.  Next people you have known as a group but they aren’t specifically your friends.  Next acquaintances.  You can discuss what to write for each level, and name people in that level.  Talk about how long it takes to move between levels and what that looks like.  

I don’t know if you are covering social media usage but this is also supposed to be good for explaining who to share things with and what is appropriate.  If something is private, who can it be shared with?  What can be shared with anybody?  
Edit:  some people keep the paper and review it once it’s made, for review, and to keep a visual available.  
 

I think you're referring to Bronfenbrenner's ecological systems in psychology?  I will search the literature to see if there may be a pre-developed framework to use.  This will definitely work with people she has just met and defining what the trust level is for each level of relationship.   

The longer term friendships are harder.  Defining personal rules around contact and understanding neurotypical expectations is really hard.  It's OK to text five friends once per day (or less), but not one friend fives times per day.  You can't expect an answer to every text immediately, even when you see that they've been read (although on WhatsApp there's the twist in our culture that it is generally seen as polite to answer once you've read a text).  You can't expect to be invited to every social event that friends go to.  Don't expect a boyfriend to be your emotional crutch - and what does that look like.  Explain up front that you don't always understand other people's brains and that you'd rather be told straight when someone is not comfortable than to just exit by ghosting? Learn to handle anger around hurt feelings more appropriately.  The list is unfortunately endless and she needs to learn every one of those things explicitly!!   I hope the psychologist can help her to break it down and see the cues by herself.

We have discussed social media usage at length and I've no reason to think that she's sharing inappropriately there.  She definitely does not accept friend requests from strangers.   Her sister is active on the different platforms and will tell me if she sees anything that may need a discussion.   The people she texts and talks to are all ones that she has met in person through others.  

Edited April 4 by Hannah

[Rosie_0801]

56 minutes ago, Hannah said:

 Don't expect a boyfriend to be your emotional crutch - and what does that look like. 

I had to explain to a person of similar age that there are problems to take to your SO or friends and problems that should be taken to one's adults.

This person had a panic attack and called a friend, who happened to be in the middle of an exam, and that was the end of that friendship. I assume my person was unaware of the exam, but still, in one's early 20's, one's mates are not old enough or experienced enough to be mum replacements.

[Hannah]

37 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I had to explain to a person of similar age that there are problems to take to your SO or friends and problems that should be taken to one's adults.

This person had a panic attack and called a friend, who happened to be in the middle of an exam, and that was the end of that friendship. I assume my person was unaware of the exam, but still, in one's early 20's, one's mates are not old enough or experienced enough to be mum replacements.

Thank you Rosie.  Another gem to share with her.  Call Mom!!

[saraha]

No advice, but hugs. I have an asd dd23 in college. She’s crushing the academic load but is really struggling with the friends and dating. She has no close friends, only a couple of acquaintances, and never had a boyfriend. She’s been on a few dates only to find out the other person was looking for a hook up. Luckily she has very strong boundaries there. She is a hard personality to get along with long term and it breaks my heart every time I hear her say she’s lonely and why don’t people like her. We thought going away to college would help her find her people, but unfortunately it has not.  I feel for you and your precious dd and wish it could be different for our kids

[Hannah]

2 minutes ago, saraha said:

No advice, but hugs. I have an asd dd23 in college. She’s crushing the academic load but is really struggling with the friends and dating. She has no close friends, only a couple of acquaintances, and never had a boyfriend. She’s been on a few dates only to find out the other person was looking for a hook up. Luckily she has very strong boundaries there. She is a hard personality to get along with long term and it breaks my heart every time I hear her say she’s lonely and why don’t people like her. We thought going away to college would help her find her people, but unfortunately it has not.  I feel for you and your precious dd and wish it could be different for our kids

Thank you Saraha.  It is SO hard to see our kids struggle.

[DawnM]

When my ASD son, 26, went back to the psychiatrist, I was the one who filled out all the paperwork for him and I mentioned some of the issues.   What I did was fill it out as if I were him (with his permission and he gave the answers) but then it had another section for "any other info" and I filled it out and said, "This is being filled out by his parent, with his permission" and then I rattled off some things I thought he should know.

We are struggling A LOT with ours.   I feel really bad for him but I don't know how best to help him.   

[Hannah]

Thank you for all of the advise I received above - I wanted to give some feedback.

Dd has gone for two sessions with the Psychologist and she really likes her.  I eventually decided not to talk to the therapist myself, but I did walk Dd through what she should tell her when asked why she was there - that she is autistic, needs help with relationships, and how to handle the feelings about the ones that went wrong.  It sounds like she did that.

I can hear in the things that she has said in the last two weeks that the therapist is really making an impact.   

The boy who was brave enough to tell her that she was too intense and he 'needed distance' for a while, did reach out again and she is open to giving their friendship another chance - which is huge for her.  She would not have forgiven the slight before.

She's been invited out three times now with the new group she met a while ago.  They have another group outing planned to watch a cricket game this weekend.  She met one of the girls, who lives close to her new apartment, through a friend.  The new group sound like a nice wholesome, and somewhat nerdy bunch.  I'm pleased that she's being included.   She is diving into these friendships again, but except for the friend-through-a friend girl, there is no one on one texting and calling from the get-go.  They have a WhatsApp group where they organize their social events and share memes and jokes and have included her. Holding thumbs that these friendships do blossom, but slowly, and that they accept Dd for all her wonderful qualities and are tolerant of her quirks.  I'll be holding my breath.

Edited April 19 by Hannah