Super Senior year -- any advice or experience?

[ByGrace3]

Please do not quote as I may delete. 

 

We are considering offering ds the possibility of a super senior year. We have not declared his graduation date where it matters (NCAA or DE) so the possibility exists. He has some learning differences, executive functioning challenges, and could use another year to mature. He wants to got he collegiate athlete/ recruiting path so its not as simple as just graduate and do a year at the CC then transfer. 

His coach has asked us if we would consider giving him a year to work on his sport to be college ready the following year. 

We would not do it just for that, but academically and emotionally-- it's not a terrible plan. 

What are some cons we could not be thinking of? (ultimately if we decide it is an option we would allow the coach to bring up the idea to ds to make it seem like it was all about the sport (it is to the coach) and leave the rest out to not make him feel bad about it. and ultimately leave the final decision up to him. 

[Lori D.]

The main concern I see would be if he has already officially played a season (or part of a season) of high school sports.

My understanding is that a student only gets 4 years of high school sports eligibility, so if a student does 5 years of high school (a "super senior year), they would likely have to be "red shirted" (sidelined) from competitive play for 1 year of those 5 years of high school, in order to maintain eligibility for college sports.

That could potentially interfere with 11th and 12th grades when most of the videos are sent out to colleges for college recruitment interest of the students, if the student is having to sit out 11th, 12th, or 13th (super senior) grade year.

From what I can see from a quick online search, it looks like: 

In most states, there is a 4-year athletic eligibility rule that student-athletes must abide by, which means that students can only participate in high school sports for a maximum of four years. This rule applies to all student-athletes, regardless of the sport they play.

The four-year athletic eligibility rule typically starts counting from the first day of a student’s freshman year of high school. This means that any participation in high school sports during their freshman year will count towards their four-year limit. Even if a student-athlete chooses not to participate in sports until their sophomore or junior year, those years will still be counted towards their eligibility.

Key exceptions that allow for 5th year participation in high school sports:
- Injury/illness rule
- Transfers and residency requirements
- Held back academically
- Extenuating circumstances
(student has had to take time off from school due to personal or family reasons, or if there are extenuating circumstances that have affected their ability to participate in their sport)

From what you describe, "held back academically" might be the only exception the student would be eligible for in doing a super senior year -- and that could potentially be really rough on a student's self-esteem.

Good luck as you research to determine what your options are (or aren't).

Edited February 23 by Lori D.

[ByGrace3]

17 hours ago, Lori D. said:

The main concern I see would be if he has already officially played a season (or part of a season) of high school sports.

My understanding is that a student only gets 4 years of high school sports eligibility, so if a student does 5 years of high school (a "super senior year), they would likely have to be "red shirted" (sidelined) from competitive play for 1 year of those 5 years of high school, in order to maintain eligibility for college sports.

That could potentially interfere with 11th and 12th grades when most of the videos are sent out to colleges for college recruitment interest of the students, if the student is having to sit out 11th, 12th, or 13th (super senior) grade year.

From what I can see from a quick online search, it looks like: 

In most states, there is a 4-year athletic eligibility rule that student-athletes must abide by, which means that students can only participate in high school sports for a maximum of four years. This rule applies to all student-athletes, regardless of the sport they play.

The four-year athletic eligibility rule typically starts counting from the first day of a student’s freshman year of high school. This means that any participation in high school sports during their freshman year will count towards their four-year limit. Even if a student-athlete chooses not to participate in sports until their sophomore or junior year, those years will still be counted towards their eligibility.

Key exceptions that allow for 5th year participation in high school sports:
- Injury/illness rule
- Transfers and residency requirements
- Held back academically
- Extenuating circumstances
(student has had to take time off from school due to personal or family reasons, or if there are extenuating circumstances that have affected their ability to participate in their sport)

From what you describe, "held back academically" might be the only exception the student would be eligible for in doing a super senior year -- and that could potentially be really rough on a student's self-esteem.

Good luck as you research to determine what your options are (or aren't).

Thank you. Yes, he would not be able to play high school his super senior year, but in his sport it is not a big deal. He could play club due to his age up through April of his super senior year due to his birthday which would line up fine for recruiting.  

[ByGrace3]

17 hours ago, Lori D. said:

From what you describe, "held back academically" might be the only exception the student would be eligible for in doing a super senior year -- and that could potentially be really rough on a student's self-esteem.
 

This is a big thing for sure. I don't want him to take this as a hit emotionally. He actually is a good students -- A's and B's. but I have to play a way bigger part in helping him (organization, focus, executive functioning stuff). He needs to mature in these areas -- which to me are so closely tied to academics they pretty much are -- but yet they aren't. 

[EKS]

1 hour ago, ByGrace3 said:

I have to play a way bigger part in helping him (organization, focus, executive functioning stuff). He needs to mature in these areas -- which to me are so closely tied to academics they pretty much are -- but yet they aren't. 

As an aside, what I thought was "needing more maturity" was actually undiagnosed ADHD which was never going to be fixed with time alone.

[MagistraKennedy]

I don't have any direct experience, but Heather Woodie's site may be helpful --- 
https://blogshewrote.org/homeschooling-high-school-fifth-year/

[frankincense]

nm

Edited February 26 by frankincense

[ByGrace3]

On 2/24/2024 at 11:13 AM, EKS said:

As an aside, what I thought was "needing more maturity" was actually undiagnosed ADHD which was never going to be fixed with time alone.

This is an absolute concern I have. 

[EKS]

17 minutes ago, ByGrace3 said:

This is an absolute concern I have. 

In my son's case, meds (nonstimulant, in his case) have made a huge difference.  

[ByGrace3]

1 hour ago, EKS said:

In my son's case, meds (nonstimulant, in his case) have made a huge difference.  

We are meds hesitant but not opposed. However, he doesn't have an official ADHD diagnosis. Everything we have read and heard has a really hard time distinguishing auditory processing disorder (which he has) and ADHD because the symptoms are the same. We are unsure how to get an accurate diagnosis. 

[Meriwether]

We did an extra senior year for my Ds19 for a couple of reasons. He was young for grade, not too young but young in a world of red shirted kids. His August birthday would have had him starting college juuust after turning 18. He has ADHD and executive function issues. I decided 19 wasn't too old to start college and gave him the choice. Also, he was able to work and save up some money for college that year which paid half of this year (we paid the other half) and a little toward next year. Enough that he may be able to pay his half with money earned this summer. 

He would not have been happy to just do another year at home, so he did mostly dual enrollment his last year. He had a few DE classes his junior year, too, so he started his freshman year with 27 credits, not far behind where he would have been.

He often questioned/regretted that extra year while he was living it, but last week he told me how glad he was. It has turned out well for him so far, especially socially. Communal living isn't his favorite thing, but the extra year to mature helped.

[Doodlebug]

I'll play a bit of devil's advocate here b/c there's a brand of Super Senioring on the rise in my community and I only hear the benefits, not the cost. 

Here's what I'm seeing - in/around the spring of a high school student's 10th grade year, a family decides to pursue a super senior year. Immediately, some academic pressure is relieved, but socially it creates difficulties kids/parents aren't anticipating. The assumption is that everything stays the same for the student and there's just an extra year to enjoy friends, athletics, and do all the academic stuff.  But, the social landscape changes dramatically in high school as seniors leave.  Moving through those goodbyes and first-time college experiences with your anticipated class is a huge support. This is the time of year the reality dawns for many students that life is moving on and *their high school experience* has an expiration date even if they stay an extra year, b/c nothing stays the same.  

I also have concerns about the pressure Super Senioring places on the parental/adult child relationship. Families with the best of intentions can slip into enabling a young adult's comforts and preferences to a point that is not in the young adult's best interest. 

The general concern I have with Super Senioring is the increasing mindset that there's some inherent value in extending high school and adolescence - one more year at home will give the child what they need to succeed. Without substantive goals and a plan that the young adult is genuinely committed to, the natural drive to discover personal responsibility/independence suffers.  

Edited March 6 by Doodlebug

[Loowit]

I have never heard the term Super Senioring before, but my youngest is doing 5 years to finish high school.  He started K at 4 (October bday), so if he had been public schooled he would have started a year later.  Whole long story I am not typing out, but he is now in his senior year, after dividing his junior year into two years.  He is taking mostly DE classes at the local community college and flourishing.  He is also doing a few classes at home with me.  When he graduates homeschool this spring he will have enough credits for half his AA degree.  He will go next year to complete his degree, but we will have to pay for that year.

Extending his time has been a great choice for him, though it also has some downsides.  He turned 18 shortly after the start of his senior year, and he lets me know that he is an adult and can make his own choices.  He is respectful, but it makes it a tough balancing act to supervise his schooling.  He is still legally a homeschooler and I am responsible for his graduation requirements.  On the plus side, socially, he has made a lot of friends, and has joined the speech & debate team where he is doing very well.  For him, this was the a really good decision.

It would not have worked well for my other kids, I don't think.  My oldest graduated at 17 and went straight to community college then transferred to a 4 year college, graduating with a BA two years later.  She did great, didn't need extra time in high school.  My middle, was an average student, though could have done better if he wanted to, decided to join the military out of high school.  An extra year of school would not have benefited him at all.  He was ready to graduate and move on to what he wanted to do, in fact, he talked to his recruiter about the possibility of graduating early, though we didn't go that route.

It isn't an easy decision, and I think you have to think through the social, emotional, and educational benefits and drawbacks of your choices.  But I would also be up front about why you are doing it.  I don't think I would do it if my child was getting decent grades already, and didn't have any other challenges.  It took a lot for me to decide to decide to make my son's high school years longer, and I involved him in the decision, because ultimately it is about his life and future.  My son has told me that he is glad he has this extra year, but only because he is doing college classes along with homeschooling.  If we were doing purely homeschooling classes, it would not work.

[Kanin]

On 2/26/2024 at 2:34 PM, ByGrace3 said:

We are meds hesitant but not opposed. However, he doesn't have an official ADHD diagnosis. Everything we have read and heard has a really hard time distinguishing auditory processing disorder (which he has) and ADHD because the symptoms are the same. We are unsure how to get an accurate diagnosis. 

If you could get a diagnosis from his doctor, trying ADHD meds would give you a pretty clear answer. 

[Kanin]

Just now, Kanin said:

If you could get a diagnosis from his doctor, trying ADHD meds would give you a pretty clear answer. 

ADHD and executive functioning go hand in hand. 

[ScoutTN]

15 hours ago, Kanin said:

If you could get a diagnosis from his doctor, trying ADHD meds would give you a pretty clear answer. 

Not necessarily. Meds do not work, or produce dramatic changes, for everyone. Sadly.

But still might be worth a try…

OP, has he seen a psych or had any psycho-ed testing? 

Edited March 8 by ScoutTN

[*LC]

The opportunity to play high school sports as a homeschooler  became an option for one of mine who was already in high school. After talking it over, we "reclassified" the student so they would have 3 years to play. (This kid had never played in a school setting and have not attended a public or private school, so this worked for us.)

This team opened up tons of friendships and opportunity for my student. This happened right before COVID, and this meant my kid didn't graduate in 2020, which turned out to be an unexpected bonus.

Someone mentioned friends graduating and leaving kid behind. My kid stayed close to the "older" players and hung out with them even after they graduated and was allowed to do  activities with a group at a nearby college that the friends attended.

All kids are different but super senior year was great for one of this kid.

[MagistraKennedy]

RE: (C)APD vs ADHD ---

When was his evaluation for (C)APD? Was ADHD ruled out first? Have you gone through any sort of therapy/treatment to help the (C)APD? 

I think a comprehensive evaluation may be your best bet. 

With my son who has (C)APD, he was evaluated, then the psychologist sent us off to the audiologist. 
Psychologist: "Hmm. He's an enigma. I can tell you definitively that he does not have dyslexia, nor ADHD. I think testing for APD is reasonable." 
His numbers at the audiologist were terrible, and we did therapy at home which helped tremendously. 

A comprehensive eval was very helpful for us, as I learned exactly what was going on, instead of guessing. It enabled me to better help him. 

[Nart]

.

 

Edited March 14 by Nart

[ByGrace3]

On 3/10/2024 at 7:08 PM, MagistraKennedy said:

RE: (C)APD vs ADHD ---

When was his evaluation for (C)APD? Was ADHD ruled out first? Have you gone through any sort of therapy/treatment to help the (C)APD? 

I think a comprehensive evaluation may be your best bet. 

With my son who has (C)APD, he was evaluated, then the psychologist sent us off to the audiologist. 
Psychologist: "Hmm. He's an enigma. I can tell you definitively that he does not have dyslexia, nor ADHD. I think testing for APD is reasonable." 
His numbers at the audiologist were terrible, and we did therapy at home which helped tremendously. 

A comprehensive eval was very helpful for us, as I learned exactly what was going on, instead of guessing. It enabled me to better help him. 

his eval was 2021 I believe. ADHD was not officially ruled out however, when we saw the pediatric behaviorist she seemed lost as to what was going on -- ds doesn't fit "in a box" and diagnosing seems challenging. 

we did go through a full testing with nectar group and they said he did not have the marker for adhd. He did show memory issues. 

no treatment. we have felt a bit lost navigating it. They did recommend more testing-- a full psycho educational eval but we waited so long to do it and then wondered if it would be helpful at this late in the game? 

 

Edited March 15 by ByGrace3

[MagistraKennedy]

I ALWAYS feel that the full pyschoeducational eval is helpful, even late in the game. My senior was evaluated just shy of 17 --- we were concerned about dyscalculia, and maybe ADHD, but ended up with anxiety. She actually decided to study neuroscience, and I think that her experience with our wonderful psychologist had a role to play.  

[Corraleno]

On 2/24/2024 at 6:45 AM, ByGrace3 said:

This is a big thing for sure. I don't want him to take this as a hit emotionally. He actually is a good students -- A's and B's. but I have to play a way bigger part in helping him (organization, focus, executive functioning stuff). He needs to mature in these areas -- which to me are so closely tied to academics they pretty much are -- but yet they aren't. 

If the main reason you want to give him an extra year is maturity/executive function, and he doesn't really need more coursework, have you considered just doing a gap year instead of an extra year of HS? My DS has ADHD and executive function issues and wasn't ready to go away to college after his senior year, so he did a gap year. It allowed him to really focus on his sport that year, plus made recruiting easy because he was talking to coaches in spring of his senior year and after he graduated, so they had all his final stats, test scores, etc.

 

On 3/15/2024 at 9:21 AM, ByGrace3 said:

we did go through a full testing with nectar group and they said he did not have the marker for adhd. He did show memory issues. 

no treatment. we have felt a bit lost navigating it. They did recommend more testing-- a full psycho educational eval but we waited so long to do it and then wondered if it would be helpful at this late in the game? 

When you say "memory issues," do you mean poor working memory? Were there also issues with processing speed (those often go together)?  One very good reason for continuing to pursue testing "late in the game" is the potential need for accommodations in college. DS definitely needed that paperwork to get extra time and a distraction-free space for tests, plus I think the fact that he was registered with the college's disability office made his profs more sympathetic to lapses in executive function.

[ByGrace3]

4 hours ago, Corraleno said:

If the main reason you want to give him an extra year is maturity/executive function, and he doesn't really need more coursework, have you considered just doing a gap year instead of an extra year of HS? My DS has ADHD and executive function issues and wasn't ready to go away to college after his senior year, so he did a gap year. It allowed him to really focus on his sport that year, plus made recruiting easy because he was talking to coaches in spring of his senior year and after he graduated, so they had all his final stats, test scores, etc.

 

When you say "memory issues," do you mean poor working memory? Were there also issues with processing speed (those often go together)?  One very good reason for continuing to pursue testing "late in the game" is the potential need for accommodations in college. DS definitely needed that paperwork to get extra time and a distraction-free space for tests, plus I think the fact that he was registered with the college's disability office made his profs more sympathetic to lapses in executive function.

Interesting, I assumed it would make the recruiting process tricky if did just a "gap year." Also, I am not sure I want him to take a year off of school. 

As for his memory problems-- testing showed deficits in short term memory (direct recall and working memory) as well as long term memory (auditory and visual) as well as visual and auditory processing. His processing speed is actually good. 

As for needing accommodations in college, that is fair. He could certainly benefit there. 

[ByGrace3]

ok, I am circling back to this idea. We sat down with ds and explained his choices -- he wants to graduate next year as planned but knows he is not ready to go away to school (which he wants to do). If he starts community college right after graduation -- it would trigger his NCAA eligibility -- taking time away he could be playing his sport when he does go away. 

What if he "graduates" with his friends as in walks at graduation, but on paper I give him a second senior year which would allow him to attend local college as a "DE" student (free for high schoolers), work on his sport, and work to save money for college. It's a bit strange -- but he could have the "social" aspects of graduation and not have the societal stigmas of an extra year of high school, yet still getting the benefits. Also, and a big benefit -- it would give us some time to do some testing and therapies/work out any potential medical intervention. 

What am I missing? Why would this be a bad idea?

[kirstenhill]

We know a couple families that did just that, minus the sports piece.  It worked out great for the kids involved, because the "super senior year" was mostly on paper.  There was little to no difference in what the student was doing between them and age-mates that officially graduated and went the cc route (living at home and attending cc full time) except who was paying for it. 

[ByGrace3]

41 minutes ago, kirstenhill said:

We know a couple families that did just that, minus the sports piece.  It worked out great for the kids involved, because the "super senior year" was mostly on paper.  There was little to no difference in what the student was doing between them and age-mates that officially graduated and went the cc route (living at home and attending cc full time) except who was paying for it. 

That is what I was thinking -- his peers won't even know -- minus the slight disappointment that the local college is your plan for now after graduation --its not super exciting but it is a solid plan. 

[Lori D.]

6 hours ago, ByGrace3 said:

...What if he "graduates" with his friends as in walks at graduation, but on paper I give him a second senior year which would allow him to attend local college as a "DE" student (free for high schoolers), work on his sport, and work to save money for college...

Not so strange, at least not here. 😉 Just about every year, one or two homeschool families in our big group do this, with great success all the way around. However -- none have had to juggle NCAA eligibility regulations, which is the only tricky piece of this puzzle that I see which could potentially trip you up...

[ByGrace3]

35 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Not so strange, at least not here. 😉 Just about every year, one or two homeschool families in our big group do this, with great success all the way around. However -- none have had to juggle NCAA eligibility regulations, which is the only tricky piece of this puzzle that I see which could potentially trip you up...

This is a concern -- however, other than seeing pics on social media -- how would they even know about his "graduation"? I have not registered him with the NCAA yet -- which I understand if I had, re-classing is incredibly difficult . . . We just did his application to DE and we put 2026 as his graduation date knowing it's easier to move up than back . . . another huge concern is DS has no idea what he wants to do. As I look at a couple of programs that he might be interested in, one school has very limited transfer credits they will accept. Is this common? My dd had such an easy time transferring her DE credits, I wasn't prepared for such a policy. I hope that is not the norm. 

[Lori D.]

1 hour ago, ByGrace3 said:

This is a concern -- however, other than seeing pics on social media -- how would they even know about his "graduation"? I have not registered him with the NCAA yet -- which I understand if I had, re-classing is incredibly difficult . . . We just did his application to DE and we put 2026 as his graduation date knowing it's easier to move up than back...

So sorry, I don't know enough about NCAA to help about that. I just know that they can be super picky about certain details. 🙄
 

1 hour ago, ByGrace3 said:

...another huge concern is DS has no idea what he wants to do. As I look at a couple of programs that he might be interested in, one school has very limited transfer credits they will accept. Is this common? My dd had such an easy time transferring her DE credits, I wasn't prepared for such a policy. I hope that is not the norm. 

Neither DS here knew what they wanted to do by high school graduation. Both went on to the local CC first. They were able to take specific courses off of a list provided by the CC that all transferred for credit as the gen. ed. credits needed for Bachelor degrees at all 3 state public universities -- it was part of a transfer AA (direct to university Associate's).

It does seem like transferability of CC credits to a university goes way down if there is not an articulation agreement between the CC and the university (like that transfer AA I mentioned above). And esp. if the student does CC in one state and then transfers to a university in a different state.

If there aren't a lot of credits that would transfer from the CC to a future university, what about your DS doing DE courses that could work toward an AAS (degree-to-work Associate's) or certificate program in a vo-tech program that might be of interest to DS?

Or something that, while it might not be of highest interest, could be a solid "back-up" plan with a higher salary if for some reason getting a Bachelor degree doesn't pan out: Welding, HVAC, plumbing, electrician, aviation or auto mechanic, fire service/EMT, cyber security, CAD -- or a medical tech AA of some kind (respiratory, radiology, sonography, pharmacy, dental hygienist, etc.)

Being able to take a super-senior year while taking DE in some vo-tech areas might help him see if a 4-year degree is even what he needs to get to a job/career he enjoys. I know he is loving his sport, and it is giving him lots of positive encouragement being good at the sport, but that's a LOT of hard work and $$$$ to have to slog through 4 years of university classes you hate or struggle with--just to be able to play college sports. Hopefully he'll know more clearly after a super-senior year of classes at the CC what route is for him... Wishing you both all the BEST.

Edited May 3 by Lori D.

[Corraleno]

On 5/3/2024 at 3:01 PM, ByGrace3 said:

This is a concern -- however, other than seeing pics on social media -- how would they even know about his "graduation"? I have not registered him with the NCAA yet -- which I understand if I had, re-classing is incredibly difficult . . . We just did his application to DE and we put 2026 as his graduation date knowing it's easier to move up than back . . . another huge concern is DS has no idea what he wants to do. As I look at a couple of programs that he might be interested in, one school has very limited transfer credits they will accept. Is this common? My dd had such an easy time transferring her DE credits, I wasn't prepared for such a policy. I hope that is not the norm. 

RE: NCAA eligibility: Has he taken any classes anywhere that would be sending transcripts to NCAA that might list a grade year (9th, 10th, etc) or the original graduation date? For example, could he have taken an online course that was listed as English 10 or something like that? Are there any grade levels attached to his sport, or has he participated with any public or private school team? 

Another potential NCAA issue if you reclassify 9th grade as 8th, 10th as 9th, etc., is that you need to make sure that he still meets all the NCAA requirements by the grade/year deadlines once he is reclassified — for example he may need to take another English in his "new" 12th grade, to ensure he has 4 English credits. You can count whatever math he did in 9th that will be the new 8th, but I would be cautious about trying to count a lot of classes in what will become "8th grade" after reclassifying him, or it will be obvious that his grade levels were adjusted after the fact.

If any of that would cause problems, I believe NCAA allows students to just do a 5th year of HS, which wouldn't require any reclassification, but classes taken in the 5th year generally don't count towards the 16 "core courses," which still have to meet the original deadlines.  If you want to go that route, I would get something in writing from NCAA (or find the appropriate rule on their website and keep a copy), and make sure to include some HS level classes in the 5th year, with only part-time DE, or it may appear that he is trying to skirt the rules by starting full-time college enrollment without using up his eligibility.

As for transferring credits, that can vary widely from one school to the next. Your best bet for transferring CC credits is with an in-state public, as there are usually transfer agreements and they can tell you upfront what the course equivalents are. A small private LAC may take very few, or may only grant generic credit and not specific course credit; that can even be an issue at large publics if the university does not have an equivalent course. As an example, DS only got general credit for two courses he transferred from ASU; they did not even allow the Western Civ course he took to count as a history GE. OTOH, they gave him full course credit for Intro Sociology on the basis of a CLEP test, and that did count for a GE requirement, so you might want to look into CLEP or AP testing during his 5th year as well.

[ByGrace3]

42 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

RE: NCAA eligibility: Has he taken any classes anywhere that would be sending transcripts to NCAA that might list a grade year (9th, 10th, etc) or the original graduation date? For example, could he have taken an online course that was listed as English 10 or something like that? Are there any grade levels attached to his sport, or has he participated with any public or private school team? 

Another potential NCAA issue if you reclassify 9th grade as 8th, 10th as 9th, etc., is that you need to make sure that he still meets all the NCAA requirements by the grade/year deadlines once he is reclassified — for example he may need to take another English in his "new" 12th grade, to ensure he has 4 English credits. You can count whatever math he did in 9th that will be the new 8th, but I would be cautious about trying to count a lot of classes in what will become "8th grade" after reclassifying him, or it will be obvious that his grade levels were adjusted after the fact.

If any of that would cause problems, I believe NCAA allows students to just do a 5th year of HS, which wouldn't require any reclassification, but classes taken in the 5th year generally don't count towards the 16 "core courses," which still have to meet the original deadlines.  If you want to go that route, I would get something in writing from NCAA (or find the appropriate rule on their website and keep a copy), and make sure to include some HS level classes in the 5th year, with only part-time DE, or it may appear that he is trying to skirt the rules by starting full-time college enrollment without using up his eligibility.

As for transferring credits, that can vary widely from one school to the next. Your best bet for transferring CC credits is with an in-state public, as there are usually transfer agreements and they can tell you upfront what the course equivalents are. A small private LAC may take very few, or may only grant generic credit and not specific course credit; that can even be an issue at large publics if the university does not have an equivalent course. As an example, DS only got general credit for two courses he transferred from ASU; they did not even allow the Western Civ course he took to count as a history GE. OTOH, they gave him full course credit for Intro Sociology on the basis of a CLEP test, and that did count for a GE requirement, so you might want to look into CLEP or AP testing during his 5th year as well.

OK, so he did play high school sports at a public school. That could affect his NCAA eligibility as in not allow him to take a 5th year even if he doesn't play at the high school his 5th year? I have heard about NCAA not counting core classes the fifth year -- that would be fine -- he has plenty of credits. I was thinking of setting up his transcript by subject instead of year so we could include some "now 8th grade" courses. Is that bad?

 

ugh I kind of hope my ds gets a clue and matures miraculously and gets a great ACT score and can just graduate on time, lol. This is so tricky.

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, ByGrace3 said:

OK, so he did play high school sports at a public school. That could affect his NCAA eligibility as in not allow him to take a 5th year even if he doesn't play at the high school his 5th year? I have heard about NCAA not counting core classes the fifth year -- that would be fine -- he has plenty of credits.

He should still be able to do a 5th year, but you won't be able to reclassify him by converting what was originally 9th grade to be 8th grade, etc., so that it appears that he graduates 12th grade in 2026. If you want to keep him from graduating next year after 12th, I would look carefully at the NCAA regulations for the super senior/13th year and make sure you're not doing anything that would cost him eligibility. 

The other alternative is to genuinely graduate him at the end of next year and have him get a part-time job (which would probably do more for maturity and executive function than more school anyway) plus study for some CLEP or AP tests or take online (not for credit) foreign language classes so he could potentially test out of the foreign language requirement at his school, etc. That way he could be knocking out some college credits without triggering NCAA issues, while still having an extra year to focus on his sport, work, and grow up a bit more.

1 hour ago, ByGrace3 said:

I was thinking of setting up his transcript by subject instead of year so we could include some "now 8th grade" courses. Is that bad?

NCAA requires that courses be listed by year, because of the rules about needing to complete a specific number of courses in specific subjects by the end of junior year. You can have a category on the transcript for 8th grade; most colleges will accept at least math and foreign language from 8th grade in terms of meeting admission requirements. 

1 hour ago, ByGrace3 said:

ugh I kind of hope my ds gets a clue and matures miraculously and gets a great ACT score and can just graduate on time, lol. This is so tricky.

The NCAA stuff was by FAR the biggest headache and the thing that made me the most nervous. Plus at exactly the point that I was submitting all of DS's paperwork, they shut down the homeschool department and shifted homeschool applications to the regular staff, who had no idea about homeschooling and couldn't answer any questions. I was terrified of screwing something up and having him lose his eligibility and athletic scholarships!

On 2/24/2024 at 6:41 AM, ByGrace3 said:

He could play club due to his age up through April of his super senior year due to his birthday which would line up fine for recruiting.

Whether he does a super senior year or takes a gap year, recruiting would be happening next year (or early summer after graduation at the very latest), because he needs to have a coach's commitment and be submitting his application in early fall of the super senior/gap year. It's good that he can continue to play club after he graduates (or during a super senior year), but recruiting will be based on what he does next year, plus maybe the following summer (although that's getting really late in the recruiting season). Without knowing what sport he's in and whether he's aiming for D1 or D2 (you don't have to mess with NCAA for D3), I don't know what the exact recruiting timeline is, but in DS's sport and many others, coaches' recruiting slots are often committed early in junior year, and sometimes even the summer before junior year for the top athletes, so hopefully your DS will be talking to coaches by fall, if he's not already.

[ByGrace3]

11 hours ago, Corraleno said:

He should still be able to do a 5th year, but you won't be able to reclassify him by converting what was originally 9th grade to be 8th grade, etc., so that it appears that he graduates 12th grade in 2026. If you want to keep him from graduating next year after 12th, I would look carefully at the NCAA regulations for the super senior/13th year and make sure you're not doing anything that would cost him eligibility. 

The other alternative is to genuinely graduate him at the end of next year and have him get a part-time job (which would probably do more for maturity and executive function than more school anyway) plus study for some CLEP or AP tests or take online (not for credit) foreign language classes so he could potentially test out of the foreign language requirement at his school, etc. That way he could be knocking out some college credits without triggering NCAA issues, while still having an extra year to focus on his sport, work, and grow up a bit more.

NCAA requires that courses be listed by year, because of the rules about needing to complete a specific number of courses in specific subjects by the end of junior year. You can have a category on the transcript for 8th grade; most colleges will accept at least math and foreign language from 8th grade in terms of meeting admission requirements. 

The NCAA stuff was by FAR the biggest headache and the thing that made me the most nervous. Plus at exactly the point that I was submitting all of DS's paperwork, they shut down the homeschool department and shifted homeschool applications to the regular staff, who had no idea about homeschooling and couldn't answer any questions. I was terrified of screwing something up and having him lose his eligibility and athletic scholarships!

Whether he does a super senior year or takes a gap year, recruiting would be happening next year (or early summer after graduation at the very latest), because he needs to have a coach's commitment and be submitting his application in early fall of the super senior/gap year. It's good that he can continue to play club after he graduates (or during a super senior year), but recruiting will be based on what he does next year, plus maybe the following summer (although that's getting really late in the recruiting season). Without knowing what sport he's in and whether he's aiming for D1 or D2 (you don't have to mess with NCAA for D3), I don't know what the exact recruiting timeline is, but in DS's sport and many others, coaches' recruiting slots are often committed early in junior year, and sometimes even the summer before junior year for the top athletes, so hopefully your DS will be talking to coaches by fall, if he's not already.

This is very helpful, thank you. I will try to find NCAA rules on super senior years-- I have come up short so far but will keep trying! 

As to plans -- we have no idea -- I would highly doubt d1 -- more looking d2 and there is even a possibility he will go d3 or NAIA which would be so much less of a headache lol 

[Corraleno]

I just noticed in your signature that tennis is your DS's sport, which complicates things a bit because D1 tennis is the ONLY sport where athletes do NOT get a one year grace period after graduating HS, in which they can compete before starting college without losing any eligibility. For D1, tennis players only get 6 months, so if he wants to retain eligibility for D1 he would have to do a super senior year rather than a gap year.

I'd call NCAA and tell them you have a tennis player who needs a 5th year of high school and ask them to point you to the bylaws on super senior years — and make sure that those rules apply to tennis players as well. For D1 you will still need to meet all 16 core course requirements in the first 4 years, of which 10 must be completed before the 4th year, and of those 10, 7 must be English, math, or science. D2 is more flexible on when the 16 core requirements are completed, and they even allow some of the requirements to be completed in the 5th year.

Have you started working on the Core Course Worksheets? If you are using online providers that are not specifically preapproved by NCAA, you'll probably want to list yourself as the Teacher of Record, with any other instructors listed in the Other Teacher slot, and specify that the final grade was assigned by you. Ditto with co-op classes. For example, with DS's Lukeion classes I listed myself as Teacher of Record, listed the Lukeion instructor as Other Teacher, and included other work that was not part of the class (5 practice tests for the National Greek & Latin Exams plus the exam itself) and I said that I included the grades on those tests and on the national exam as part of the final grade that was assigned by me. Alternatively, you can also try submitting a Nontraditional Course form for the outsourced classes — just make sure you have other classes you can use to meet the requirements in case some of those get declined. 

Assuming there aren't any prohibitions or extra scrutiny specifically on tennis players who take a 5th year, you could submit all your core course worksheets for approval next winter or spring, and they will get reviewed by NCAA as soon as they get a coach's request. If they approve everything, then even without the 4th English credit he can get Prequalified status, and you're done with NCAA except for proof of amateur status. If they reject any of the Core Course Worksheets, you can try to make up those deficiencies during senior year (retaining D1 eligibility) or just replace them with CC classes (which are automatically approved, no Core Course Worksheets needed) during the super senior year, which would be fine for D2.

The hoops NCAA makes high school students jump through in order to prove "college readiness" are just completely absurd considering how much they drop the ball once those students are actually IN college, when they provide zero oversight of coursework and really don't care if the athletes graduate at all!

Edited May 8 by Corraleno

[ByGrace3]

22 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I just noticed in your signature that tennis is your DS's sport, which complicates things a bit because D1 tennis is the ONLY sport where athletes do NOT get a one year grace period after graduating HS, in which they can compete before starting college without losing any eligibility. For D1, tennis players only get 6 months, so if he wants to retain eligibility for D1 he would have to do a super senior year rather than a gap year.

I'd call NCAA and tell them you have a tennis player who needs a 5th year of high school and ask them to point you to the bylaws on super senior years — and make sure that those rules apply to tennis players as well. For D1 you will still need to meet all 16 core course requirements in the first 4 years, of which 10 must be completed before the 4th year, and of those 10, 7 must be English, math, or science. D2 is more flexible on when the 16 core requirements are completed, and they even allow some of the requirements to be completed in the 5th year.

Have you started working on the Core Course Worksheets? If you are using online providers that are not specifically preapproved by NCAA, you'll probably want to list yourself as the Teacher of Record, with any other instructors listed in the Other Teacher slot, and specify that the final grade was assigned by you. Ditto with co-op classes. For example, with DS's Lukeion classes I listed myself as Teacher of Record, listed the Lukeion instructor as Other Teacher, and included other work that was not part of the class (5 practice tests for the National Greek & Latin Exams plus the exam itself) and I said that I included the grades on those tests and on the national exam as part of the final grade that was assigned by me. Alternatively, you can also try submitting a Nontraditional Course form for the outsourced classes — just make sure you have other classes you can use to meet the requirements in case some of those get declined. 

Assuming there aren't any prohibitions or extra scrutiny specifically on tennis players who take a 5th year, you could submit all your core course worksheets for approval next winter or spring, and they will get reviewed by NCAA as soon as they get a coach's request. If they approve everything, then even without the 4th English credit he can get Prequalified status, and you're done with NCAA except for proof of amateur status. If they reject any of the Core Course Worksheets, you can try to make up those deficiencies during senior year (retaining D1 eligibility) or just replace them with CC classes (which are automatically approved, no Core Course Worksheets needed) during the super senior year, which would be fine for D2.

The hoops NCAA makes high school students jump through in order to prove "college readiness" are just completely absurd considering how much they drop the ball once those students are actually IN college, when they provide zero oversight of coursework and really don't care if the athletes graduate at all!

I highly doubt d1 will be an issue, but I don't want to close any doors for him. Even if core classes need to be completed in 4 years we should be ok I think -- the tricky part is doing a transcript for the first four years and leave the fifth year out? or do a 5 year transcript or do I do a 4 year transcript leaving his true freshman year out? ugh why is this so complicated. 

[PeterPan]

On 5/3/2024 at 10:57 AM, ByGrace3 said:

ok, I am circling back to this idea. We sat down with ds and explained his choices -- he wants to graduate next year as planned but knows he is not ready to go away to school (which he wants to do). If he starts community college right after graduation -- it would trigger his NCAA eligibility -- taking time away he could be playing his sport when he does go away. 

What if he "graduates" with his friends as in walks at graduation, but on paper I give him a second senior year which would allow him to attend local college as a "DE" student (free for high schoolers), work on his sport, and work to save money for college. It's a bit strange -- but he could have the "social" aspects of graduation and not have the societal stigmas of an extra year of high school, yet still getting the benefits. Also, and a big benefit -- it would give us some time to do some testing and therapies/work out any potential medical intervention. 

What am I missing? Why would this be a bad idea?

My dd was one of those very adhd, started meds, went off to college, I wanted another year and she REALLY WANTED TO LAUNCH. So I can tell you on the mom side yes, sure, you are right that he's got some EF issues and could use another year of bloom time. I also think the ship has sailed and you need to do what he said. In fact, I'm trying to figure out why you're *risking* creating some bizarre situation that might not hold up to the sniff test. What does the sport eligibility get him? Scholarships? Professional access/contracts?

You need to think carefully, because what you THINK you need to open up for him might be the very thing that hurts him. If he has EF issues and he pushes into some scholarship + college scenario, he may get burnt really hard. You haven't dealt with the APD question or the ADHD. The ADHD is obvious and only the subtype is the question. The APD is MUCH more concerning, because APD is technically and *auditory processing of language* issue. So you're pondering sending him to COLLEGE, which will NOT be as flexible as homeschooling was, and he's going to have MASSIVE language demands in very complex, pressured situations as someone with an untreated language disability. 

Has he had a recent psych eval? The cc and any university will want a recent psych eval in order for him to receive accommodations, and from what you're describing he will benefit from accommodations. He's unwise to pursue college at the cc or university without accommodations because those grades are going to trail him a long time. And personally, I don't know how you're going to somehow hide the timeline when the psych is going to put that timeline very clearly in the report the college HAS TO HAVE to do the accommodations process.

I'm giving my ds 5 years for high school, but we decided and agreed on that going into this year (his 9th grade year age wise). So it's not like I'm unsympathetic, just saying I don't see how you get there. If he ASKED to graduate, you need to do it. If he's academically ready to go to the cc, I would use the summer to get the paper trail for his acccommodations. I would find an SLP or audiologist who specializes in treating the language processing issues of APD and see what kind of progress he can make working with them. I would then *retest* with audiology after 3 months of working aggressively with the SLP/audiologist to see what further accommodations are warranted at that point. I would let him go to the cc and play sports and do anything he wants and get on with his life. I would encourage him to follow the advice of the psych to use accommodations and limit course load. 

The tennis is probably really good for his attention and ability to focus, so I would make sure he gets to do that. The thing you're most fearing here might not be the most important thing. Was he young for his grade? Why is his tennis coach saying to hold him back when his grades are fine and he wants to graduate?? That's the piece that's odd to me. To do that, you should have had that discussion several years earlier. Once it's in their head they're launching, it's time. I would let him own it and fly, but give him some guidance and protection to cover that first year.