Loneliness epidemic

[ScoutTN]

Agree about pets! When I moved here as a single person 25 years ago, I was exceedingly lonely. If I hadn’t had my dog (the yellow lab in my avatar pic) for contact and comfort and love, idk how I would have made it! 

[Melissa Louise]

21 minutes ago, regentrude said:

That's very possible. One of my best friends is single and has always been (I guess that might be quite different than being single because of a relationship that didn't work). She is the happiest upbeat person I know with a life filled with friends - and she always had cats! 

I just recently added two indoor cats to our family, and I can't believe what a difference that makes: there's always someone waiting when I get home who wants cuddles and pets. I am not a very physical person when it comes to humans; cats are fantastic for cuddling needs.

Sadly, I'm allergic.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Or German Shepherd people.  From what I've heard, they are great cuddlers.  😛  (After they get past the bitey puppy stage.)

German Shorthair Pointers.  Oh my word. They are called Velcro dogs. 

[Frances]

On 5/10/2023 at 9:48 AM, regentrude said:

That sounds appealing - for an extroverted person. My very introverted mother would never consider this, and neither would my husband - the idea would feel torture to him.

At my mom’s place, all socializing is optional, nothing is required. According to my mom, some people are constantly socializing while others never do and everything in between. All those in independent living have their own kitchens, so residents don’t need to go to the dining room, restaurant, or pub to eat, but they can if they want to.

[Alice]

On 5/10/2023 at 7:52 PM, Ordinary Shoes said:

I'm going on a long weekend trip by myself soon and I was a little embarrassed to tell people because they won't understand. I'm going to several art museums and some indie bookstores and I will get to sleep in a comfy hotel bed all by myself. The drive is about 7 hours and I'll listen to a good audiobook in the car all by myself. I'm ridiculously excited about it. 

But I know many people would find that very lonely and kind of pathetic. 

 

I do this every year for my birthday since I turned 40 (so about the past 11 years). I'm an introvert, my husband is an extrovert. The year I turned 40 I told him that what I wanted as a gift was to go to a hotel for 24 hours alone and I'd realized that I'd been waiting for him to suggest it but that he was never going to suggest it. He thought it was weird but was totally happy to make it happen and has been fine with me doing it pretty much every year since. And now that the kids are older I go for a whole weekend. I don't usually go far away because we live in a city with lots to do but I stay in a hotel and some years go to museums or a movie or hike and some years just sit in the room and read and take baths. 

I find that people either have the reaction where they think it's the best idea ever and tell me they wish they could do it. Or they are like my husband and think it's kind of odd. 

For my husband's birthday this year we are literally having an open house for 8 hours at our house where people can come and go all day. He has invited literally everyone he knows and even some people he's just met. I think this is very odd but am happy to make it happen for him. 😀

I know all of that is kind of an aside from the loneliness topic...but I saw that post and had to respond that you are not pathetic at all! 

 

 

 

[marbel]

12 minutes ago, Alice said:

I find that people either have the reaction where they think it's the best idea ever and tell me they wish they could do it. Or they are like my husband and think it's kind of odd. 

I wonder what people find odd about it. I mean, I can imagine someone thinking "huh, I'd never do that" or "not something I'd want to do" but in any case it's not odd. It's just a preference.

I mean, I know people who don't like chocolate, or spicy food, or beets, and I like all those things, but it's not odd that other people don't like them!  It's just... their preference.

ETA: I'm not attacking you or your husband here, just musing...

Edited May 12, 2023 by marbel

[Heartstrings]

18 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Reading thread that female friendships in romance novels feels aspirational just like the lifestyles of the characters

I was thinking this about tv and movie characters too.  Those friendships are aspirational, as you said, but I do wonder if sometimes they also cause loneliness by setting a standard that is too high.  If you haven’t operated on my husbands heart while I have a gun pointed at me, are we even friends (or am I watching too much Greys Anatomy 🤔)?    
 

I am lucky enough to have a few very close friendships.  The kind you can call at 3 in the morning to watch your kids because your mom died kind of friends. But even those aren’t “enough” by the standard of tv shows or novels.  

[Clarita]

41 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Am I the only one here who worried about finding emergency contacts for school? 

My friend just asked me and wrote "but really they probably would never call you..." so no definitely you aren't the only one. (FWIW I told her it's fine and it's OK even if they do call me.) I just filled out my daughter's school form and wondered how do people find 3 emergency contacts if they can't put down their grandparents. (Mine was at least 2 in additional to the father/partner guardian.) 

[Shoeless]

2 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

I was thinking this about tv and movie characters too.  Those friendships are aspirational, as you said, but I do wonder if sometimes they also cause loneliness by setting a standard that is too high.  If you haven’t operated on my husbands heart while I have a gun pointed at me, are we even friends (or am I watching too much Greys Anatomy 🤔)?    

These sort of female friendships are almost like romantic relationships. Maybe I am lazy or mean, but I don't want to pour that kind of energy into friendships. It's too much. How do you focus on the rest of your life? 

I see this sort of aspirational friendship play out on social media. Women declaring their love for their besties and detailing the never ending girls-weekends, lunches, spa weekends, etc.  And I think a)how does everyone afford this?! and b)how is your husband not annoyed that you are off with your "girl squad" every weekend? Because if my husband was out of town with the guys every weekend, I'd be really unhappy. 

[Guest]

On 5/10/2023 at 7:52 PM, Ordinary Shoes said:

I'm going on a long weekend trip by myself soon and I was a little embarrassed to tell people because they won't understand. I'm going to several art museums and some indie bookstores and I will get to sleep in a comfy hotel bed all by myself. The drive is about 7 hours and I'll listen to a good audiobook in the car all by myself. I'm ridiculously excited about it. 

But I know many people would find that very lonely and kind of pathetic. 

 

I have done this kind of thing once in a while, too. I love It but some people think it is soooo weird. I remember one time I drove alone to the ocean, which is a three-hour drive, sat on the beach reading books and eating Thrashers fries (a whole bucket, all to myself! Nobody complaining about all the Malt Vinegar!), visited the wild ponies and took pictures, then drove home alone the same day.
 

Thankfully, dh does totally understand the appeal. But my sister-in-law found it extremely odd. Nobody to talk to for six hours of driving? Reading on the beach?!! But you can read anywhere! Shouldn’t I at least have booked a hotel and stayed there long enough to make it “worth” the drive?

I thought it was awesome. I’ll probably do it again before this year ends! 
 

[regentrude]

6 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I don't have the kinds of friends I'd feel comfortable calling at 3 AM. Maybe I have people who would be fine with it but I'd never try. 

Am I the only one here who worried about finding emergency contacts for school? 

I think that many acquaintances would be happy to help in a true emergency like a death in the family or a sudden ER visit. (DH once drove a colleague to the hospital 100 miles away when the person had a sudden eye emergency,  and other colleagues took turns shuttling this person to surgery and subsequent appointments. None of us would describe as close friends.) For me, whom to call in case of a true extraordinary situation would not require the deep friendship where you bare your soul.

When we moved here, my emergency contacts for school were a neighbor and the wife of a coworker. They were both mothers,  and I trusted they'd take care of my kids in an emergency if dh and I were not reachable. Doesn't take intimate friendship,  just reliability. 

Edited May 12, 2023 by regentrude

[marbel]

10 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

I was thinking this about tv and movie characters too.  Those friendships are aspirational, as you said, but I do wonder if sometimes they also cause loneliness by setting a standard that is too high.  If you haven’t operated on my husbands heart while I have a gun pointed at me, are we even friends (or am I watching too much Greys Anatomy 🤔)?    
 

I am lucky enough to have a few very close friendships.  The kind you can call at 3 in the morning to watch your kids because your mom died kind of friends. But even those aren’t “enough” by the standard of tv shows or novels.  

I have had a few friends like that in my life. Really close friends who would do anything I needed, and I would do anything for them.  I haven't had that in a long while though. 

But, movies, novels, and even social media, are fiction. They are there for entertainment, or to sell us something. I mean, I think romantic movies can be very harmful to young couples - young women in particular - in setting expectations for what relationships are really like. Heck, I've known women into their 30s who would become discontented with their otherwise normal, happy marriage after watching some silly rom-com. And it can be the same for friendships.  

Even a private person on social media can be selling something, though there's no money involved.  They can be selling an image of themselves that raises them in the eyes of their followers/readers. Some people build their self-esteem that way and often it has nothing to do with reality.  

ETA: And of course there are people who do have loads of friends they hang out with every weekend. But they are not me, and I have no idea what else is going on with their lives.  I think it's become a cliche that people post pictures of their happy, loving marriages just before the divorce proceedings start. I've seen it happening quite a few times. I have a long-distance friend who posted happy family photos, and then suddenly her husband disappeared from them, and her new house and garden were the focus. No announcement was made on SM, but it was obvious all had not been well. And it's fine that there was no announcement - surely closer friends knew what was going on, and no one owes anyone information about their lives - but it's a reminder that SM is fake, or at least only a very small snapshot of someone's life. (In most cases, I'm sure there are exceptions.)

Edited May 12, 2023 by marbel

[Wheres Toto]

On 5/10/2023 at 7:52 PM, Ordinary Shoes said:

I'm going on a long weekend trip by myself soon and I was a little embarrassed to tell people because they won't understand. I'm going to several art museums and some indie bookstores and I will get to sleep in a comfy hotel bed all by myself. The drive is about 7 hours and I'll listen to a good audiobook in the car all by myself. I'm ridiculously excited about it. 

But I know many people would find that very lonely and kind of pathetic. 

 

I do this a couple times a year.  I take a trip to Niantic Connecticut to visit a used bookstore and some shops in Mystic.  About every other trip I might bring my oldest daughter or my mother.  My dd is better because she will also just sit quietly in a room reading instead of feeling the need to chatter like my mother does.    But I love the trips I take all by myself.  I can do what I want, eat what I want, sleep when I want.   It's great.  

8 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I think it causes something like loneliness because those kinds of friendships aren't realistic so people think they are missing something. It's the same with TV shows. 

I don't have the kinds of friends I'd feel comfortable calling at 3 AM. Maybe I have people who would be fine with it but I'd never try. I remember when we moved here, worrying about who would be our emergency contacts for the daycare. I asked a co-worker and she responded [paraphrasing] - okay but that they would never call, right? 

Am I the only one here who worried about finding emergency contacts for school? 

 

I definitely sometimes feel a little longing when I watch movies with the old ladies who are the super close friends and have been forever.    But it usually fades pretty quickly.   I'm definitely an introvert but I spend a lot of time around other people all day long so I like my quiet, mostly alone (dh is sitting quietly watching tv) time at the end of the day.  

I have a few people I could call in a true emergency, outside of family.   First on the list would probably be oldest dd but I do have some friends who would help.   

Same for school emergency contacts.   I always did my parents with oldest dd and have never needed it for the younger guys, but it would be their older sister first.    Then I have a few friends I could ask, especially if it would be an emergency situation only thing.  

Yet, I wouldn't consider these friends super close, can tell you anything in the world, people.   And we very rarely hang out or do things outside of the situations where we see each other due to things we do together.    Some of them I see almost daily, others weekly, others a couple times a month but they are organized meetings/situations.   I still consider them friends and some I can talk to about quite a few things, we just are all very busy and don't have time to hang out.  

[SKL]

As far as emergency contacts - I used to try to follow the spirit of this, but at some point I just started putting my own info there.  They probably never look at it, and even if they do, they need to call me first.  And if it's an actual emergency, call freaking 911, not my friend or neighbor.

They school did call my sister once when my kid had a playground accident that didn't rise to the level of 911.  What do you think my sister did?  She called me, LOL.  She's not gonna leave her job and drive 1.5 hours to my kids' school unless I'm confirmed dead.

[mommyoffive]

5 hours ago, regentrude said:

I think that many acquaintances would be happy to help in a true emergency like a death in the family or a sudden ER visit. (DH once drove a colleague to the hospital 100 miles away when the person had a sudden eye emergency,  and other colleagues took turns shuttling this person to surgery and subsequent appointments. None of us would describe as close friends.) For me, whom to call in case of a true extraordinary situation would not require the deep friendship where you bare your soul.

When we moved here, my emergency contacts for school were a neighbor and the wife of a coworker. They were both mothers,  and I trusted they'd take care of my kids in an emergency if dh and I were not reachable. Doesn't take intimate friendship,  just reliability. 

This.  I haven't needed this in a bit, but 2 times my friends helped me out in an emergency while have babies.  One was just a fellow mom neighbor who rushed over to help when she saw police, firetrucks, and paramedics at our house when I was pg.  I ended up having the baby at home unplanned and she swooped in and took care of my little ones that were just wondering the house with tons of first responders not looking after them.  And the other we did call in the middle of the night to come stay with my kids until family could drive here when I was in labor with another one.  Again not a close friend just a mom I knew from playgroup.  I think most people want to help others and would just come and help if needed.

[Jean in Newcastle]

At one point I had keys to every house on the block "in case of emergency" (like needing to shut off the gas or water etc.).  Most of these people I only knew in a casual way.  But enough that we trusted each other. 

I've been called to help with a miscarriage, some huge messes (which honestly I could have done without but still helped out), a couple of more serious logistical problems.  I've been also called for frivolous things - like the SAHM who wanted me to stay at her home and feed soup to her dh with the flu while she went to the store literally 3 minutes away. I told her no -  that wasn't an emergency and he wouldn't die while left alone for that amount of time.

"Living in community" doesn't necessarily mean being besties.  It means having a level of trust that they will truly help, won't stab you in the back (literally or figuratively!) and can actually help.  (When I fell through our rotten deck my kids called one neighbor who stood and watched me and wailed in panic until I told my kids to call another neighbor who actually helped to extricate me.  )

 

[Alice]

17 hours ago, marbel said:

I wonder what people find odd about it. I mean, I can imagine someone thinking "huh, I'd never do that" or "not something I'd want to do" but in any case it's not odd. It's just a preference.

I mean, I know people who don't like chocolate, or spicy food, or beets, and I like all those things, but it's not odd that other people don't like them!  It's just... their preference.

ETA: I'm not attacking you or your husband here, just musing...

My son has a saying that he says ironically "Imagine, your life experience is not exactly the same as mine." It's become sort of a catch-all in our family for expressing that feeling of not really understanding why someone does something or likes something that we can't imagine doing or liking but that we don't think there is anything wrong with doing or liking. So when I say "odd" I think that's what I mean. I do think there are some people who really think it's weird to want to be alone and to go away alone but I think most people who wouldn't do it themselves think of it like they might if I said I love to eat pickles dipped in peanut butter. Not something they'd do themselves or even think of but to each their own. 

[bookbard]

I was single for years and lived alone for a long time before I met my partner. I had a lot of friends, but it was lonely because you're not the most important, you do always come second to their own families. I don't think anyone would have thought I was lonely as I really did love living alone and am always an upbeat person in public. But I was. And I always think of that when people go on about how the single life is better. It's better in some ways. But there is a reason most people pair up. I'm not in a super great relationship either, I categorise it as 'good enough'. We look after one another, we look after the kids together, we're not unhappy (all the time). And I do also have many, many people I could call at a moment's notice for help. Actually someone was telling me about a study where the person was asked 'who could you borrow money off (can't remember if it was $5 or $50) if you were desperate', and honestly I could probably do that off a hundred people. 

[Melissa Louise]

31 minutes ago, bookbard said:

I was single for years and lived alone for a long time before I met my partner. I had a lot of friends, but it was lonely because you're not the most important, you do always come second to their own families. I don't think anyone would have thought I was lonely as I really did love living alone and am always an upbeat person in public. But I was. And I always think of that when people go on about how the single life is better. It's better in some ways. But there is a reason most people pair up. I'm not in a super great relationship either, I categorise it as 'good enough'. We look after one another, we look after the kids together, we're not unhappy (all the time). And I do also have many, many people I could call at a moment's notice for help. Actually someone was telling me about a study where the person was asked 'who could you borrow money off (can't remember if it was $5 or $50) if you were desperate', and honestly I could probably do that off a hundred people. 

This.

Life is harder, imo, when you are single, and loneliness is one way that hardship manifests.

I also have the 3am friends and could borrow money from multiple people - those things don't say anything to me about loneliness (maybe about isolation).

I am a family person. I like to be in a family. It doesn't much fuss me if it's my kids, or sibling, or a friend's family - I function/work best in a family.

Family seems mostly to come in a single hetero pair, which is a problem when you're not ready for another hetero pairing, but you still have a lot of family-ness to give.

But yes, I wish people were less PR-minded about single life. There's nothing shameful about it, but it's not always easy.

 

[Melissa Louise]

This has been a really great thread, thank you to OP and all who have posted.

To be utterly egocentric, it's helped me clarify what I'm missing, and resolve some ways to attempt to create something new to address that, though it's frustratingly more difficult than it should be in a big city. Nevertheless, I will keep trying.

So I wonder if part of a solution to a loneliness epidemic lies in people talking about it, raising it as an issue, being interested in it.