Tyre Nichols - my heart is broken

[1234]

10 minutes ago, KSera said:

Yes! I’ve been very much struck by the first part in this case (I’ve only read the play-by-play of what happens in the videos, but have not watched the videos themselves). I was immediately struck by the absolutely understandable fight or flight response that seems so clear and instinctive to me. What person wouldn’t try to run if they could when being attacked like that? But my brain hadn’t made the leap to the fact of what you say in the second part, that the police on the other hand are forgiven for jumping immediately to excessive force—deadly force even—even if it’s in response only to a fear that they might possibly face some kind of danger. 

I seriously don’t understand the point of the police anymore. They can kill if afraid, and they can stand in hallways and not do their jobs while children are murdered because they’re afraid. I don’t understand how we got to this point where they can do whatever they want and I don’t know how we get out of it. 

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

Yes! I’ve been very much struck by the first part in this case (I’ve only read the play-by-play of what happens in the videos, but have not watched the videos themselves). I was immediately struck by the absolutely understandable fight or flight response that seems so clear and instinctive to me. What person wouldn’t try to run if they could when being attacked like that? But my brain hadn’t made the leap to the fact of what you say in the second part, that the police on the other hand are forgiven for jumping immediately to excessive force—deadly force even—even if it’s in response only to a fear that they might possibly face some kind of danger. 

Bingo!

[Terabith]

1 hour ago, Joker2 said:

I seriously don’t understand the point of the police anymore. They can kill if afraid, and they can stand in hallways and not do their jobs while children are murdered because they’re afraid. I don’t understand how we got to this point where they can do whatever they want and I don’t know how we get out of it. 

Yup.  Prior to Uvalde, I thought "defund the police" was either a extreme, radicalized stance or a shorthand slogan for "We should give comparatively less funding to law enforcement, who have no need of military grade weapons and tanks, while increasing funding for things that prevent crime, like affordable housing, mental health treatment, and education," but after Uvalde?  I can get on board with eliminating it.  There seems to be very little point and a great deal of harm.

[Sneezyone]

I’m not on board with defunding, never have been. That slogan was weaponized to marginalize reform efforts. The communities most affected by crime need EVIDENCE-BASED policing, less FEAR-/BIAS-BASED policing, and more COMMUNITY-LED policing/funding for ancillary support-services like social workers, health aids, and drug treatment.
 

Pre-textual stops need to end. Install traffic cameras and send bills. Training  and recruitment needs to be fundamentally revamped. We’re hiring all the wrong people. Make sure citizens (even other govt employees from external departments) are on every hiring/screening panel to reduce groupthink/cultural fit hires. There’s lots we could do.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Farrar]

4 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

I think I talked too softly around the issue so I'll try again.

Police culture is inherently racist.  At its core, policing in the U.S. is so freaking racist that it seems normal for the police to brutalize minorities.  The first question is usually "what did they do to deserve it?".

These police officers, who are part of the culture, are black.  Their fellow law enforcement is still racist.  The fact that they, unlike many of their white counterparts, were immediately charged with murder and the police unions are quiet, still shows that law enforcement is racist.  If they were white officers the outcome may have been very different in the response by the courts and law enforcement as a whole. 

I am NOT saying that these 5 did not absolutely deserve to be charged with murder.  They did.  I am saying that 5 black officers charged is not a good indication of change in police culture.  There is no indication that there is a shift in perception or that law enforcement should change.  All it means is that racist cops will still be racist - rallying around white murderers but condemning black ones.

I’m not sure what you’re arguing with but it’s not me. I agree with that.

[HomeAgain]

The family has raised the question now of why the 5, and not all, were charged:

Quote

Ben Crump, the attorney representing the family, told ABC News that the video raises more questions about who was involved. One of the videos shows an unidentified white officer encountering Nichols at the beginning of the interaction and Crump questioned why that officer hasn't been charged.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/tyre-nichols-parents-vow-justice-release-police-camera/story?id=96734832

[livetoread]

I do think that in most neighborhoods a vacuum left by no police would be worse than the policing we have now. There are worse people than police ready and willing to step in and fill the hole, and when afraid, pretty much everyone devolves. I look at my squarely suburban, middle to upper middle class neighborhood and I read our neighborhood Facebook group, and I know without a doubt that they would turn on each other in a heartbeat losing even the veneer of civilization given the right climate of fear. We are all three steps away from utter chaos, and in utter chaos, the bad guys flourish. While I deeply question the moral authority of police, I trust my fellow humans in situations of no police even less.

I was really affected though by those who said their neighborhoods might very well be better off without policing. It's really bad when you are willing to say that, and while I'm cynical enough about human nature to question whether they are all right, some probably are, which is a huge indictment.

[Faith-manor]

27 minutes ago, livetoread said:

I do think that in most neighborhoods a vacuum left by no police would be worse than the policing we have now. There are worse people than police ready and willing to step in and fill the hole, and when afraid, pretty much everyone devolves. I look at my squarely suburban, middle to upper middle class neighborhood and I read our neighborhood Facebook group, and I know without a doubt that they would turn on each other in a heartbeat losing even the veneer of civilization given the right climate of fear. We are all three steps away from utter chaos, and in utter chaos, the bad guys flourish. While I deeply question the moral authority of police, I trust my fellow humans in situations of no police even less.

I was really affected though by those who said their neighborhoods might very well be better off without policing. It's really bad when you are willing to say that, and while I'm cynical enough about human nature to question whether they are all right, some probably are, which is a huge indictment.

I see what you are saying. I am in a low crime community to begin with, and yet, we would be better off with the money going to all the things that benefit people living better lives like lots of mental health counselors and psychiatrists, and free healthcare, and decent housing for homeless and low income folks, better food in the food pantries which is mostly not very nutritional stuff. And the reason I say this is that our state police post has reached a place where they literally do NOTHING except traffic and writing tickets. That's it. You can call 911 all you want, but they are cowards and will not come when the chips are down or someone dangerous is in the area. They won't come out and take a report after the fact either. They draw their paychecks for doing very, very little of anything that benefits the community. But, our sheriff's department is wonderful and the sheriff is an excellent human who rigorously vettes his employees so IF you can get a sheriff deputy to respond, then you actually get help. I have watched a multi-car pile ups, and EMS, Fire, and Sheriff are working. State police officers stand around talking, doing nothing. They view themselves as too good to get dirty, above all of the other responders. So I would be in favor of some of the money being diverted to the sheriff. But we know that we know that we know that investing in the community in the form of mental health services, social workers, free quality counseling, healthcare access, alleviating issues related to poverty, getting early intervention in schools, cleaning up water supplies, all reduce crime by huge amounts.

For instance, the science is in on water. For every $1 spent on lead abatment, $14-17 is saved later in the costs to society to house prisoners because lead damages the frontal lobes of children leaving them with very little impulse control and emotional self regulation which means high rates of crimes committed later.

We are at a crisis point where we can either step out of the bubble and do the things that work or just simply continue to sit around and wring our hands, tsk tsk tsk, some more police brutality. What a shame, and then continue about our days and hope it never happens to us or to our kids. Fear of "what if" will be the immobilizing factor that ensures nothing changes, and it only gets worse.

When a community cannot call 911 because they don't know if the decent LEO or the many many bad LEOS will be sent, that community should not be paying for a police department anymore.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Faith-manor
Kindle autocorrect

[Dmmetler]

25 minutes ago, livetoread said:

I do think that in most neighborhoods a vacuum left by no police would be worse than the policing we have now. There are worse people than police ready and willing to step in and fill the hole, and when afraid, pretty much everyone devolves. I look at my squarely suburban, middle to upper middle class neighborhood and I read our neighborhood Facebook group, and I know without a doubt that they would turn on each other in a heartbeat losing even the veneer of civilization given the right climate of fear. We are all three steps away from utter chaos, and in utter chaos, the bad guys flourish. While I deeply question the moral authority of police, I trust my fellow humans in situations of no police even less.

I was really affected though by those who said their neighborhoods might very well be better off without policing. It's really bad when you are willing to say that, and while I'm cynical enough about human nature to question whether they are all right, some probably are, which is a huge indictment.

I live in a similar neighborhood, and I would agree. In general, the folks who live where people  feel comfortable calling the police are probably better off because being able to call the police keeps people from trying to enforce their own views of justice. I swear there are people on NextDoor who consider letting grass grow too long as grounds for the death penalty. I don't think that deploying armed officers over "my neighbor's teen is driving too fast and playing music too loud" is the right choice, though. 

 

But in urban Memphis, where SCORPION operated....I think honestly no police would be better than what is there. I taught in one of those neighborhoods, and it was the kind of place where some of the drug dealers would stand guard over kids walking home from school because they didn't trust the other guys. No one called the police because they didn't trust them-and there was good reason for not doing so. They don't need to be paying for SCORPION. They need social workers, financial support, mental health workers, teachers, child care, etc. 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Dmmetler

[lauraw4321]

What do we do? 

[Eos]

8 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

What do we do? 

My sister and I have been talking about this. There's a line in the film Descendant where one of the Clotilde descendants is talking about viewing and visiting civil rights museums and memorials.  He says, if you don't do anything once you've seen it, it's just entertainment.

What @Sneezyonesaid above:  Pre-textual stops need to end. Install traffic cameras and send bills. Training  and recruitment needs to be fundamentally revamped. We’re hiring all the wrong people. Make sure citizens (even other govt employees from external departments) are on every hiring/screening panel to reduce groupthink/cultural fit hires. 

Following the family's and the Memphis community's lead in calling for police reform in our own communities.  "Calling for" to me means writing to my town, state, and national reps, county police commission, and DA and following up until they respond.

Letters to the Editor.

When I see any cop situation I stop and watch them, others might video. 

Giving money monthly to orgs that are exposing, educating about, and bringing legal pressure against police brutality: https://law-hawaii.libguides.com/c.php?g=1047167&p=7602365

 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Eos

[Dmmetler]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=508233868108525&set=a.183063193958929&type=3

 

The EMTs who responded have been fired due to not doing an appropriate patient assessment. Which helps to explain why he went to St. Francis, which is a general hospital and has often had long ER triage times, vs Regions One, which has a dedicated Level I trauma center with it's own ER. 

[Terabith]

So, why wasn’t the white officer who participated in the murder charged?

[maize]

Brainstorming here: I wonder what would happen if we actively encouraged more women to go into law enforcement? Seems it could help change the culture if at least half of law enforcement officers were female. Not that women never get caught up in un-called-for violence, but it sure happens a lot less often.

[HomeAgain]

1 hour ago, maize said:

Brainstorming here: I wonder what would happen if we actively encouraged more women to go into law enforcement? Seems it could help change the culture if at least half of law enforcement officers were female. Not that women never get caught up in un-called-for violence, but it sure happens a lot less often.

Current training methods do not encourage females to participate.

The first step would be to fix training and enforcement.  Run a clean, people-first, program, then recruit those people to continue it.

Police reform at a national level is needed.  This isn't a department program, not unless one department was cloned all over the country.  Police need much less access to military weapons.  There needs to be a mental health division within each department with their own resource officers.  There needs to be a national database of police so that every unit can see potential problems in new hires.  There also needs to be significant training in human psychology AND different age groups so that 5yos aren't being threatened with beatings or 8yos arrested for watching a fight happen.

Regulations first.  Recruit second.

[Terabith]

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

…There also needs to be significant training in human psychology AND different age groups so that 5yos aren't being threatened with beatings or 8yos arrested for watching a fight happen.

Regulations first.  Recruit second.

I’ve talked to a few people who majored in psychology and then became police officers. It seemed to have taught them how to manipulate people - and not in a good way. 

[TechWife]

This was eye opening for me - I didn't know where some of these attitudes originated.

The Police Folklore that Helped Kill Tyre Nichols

[Heartstrings]

I’m not seeing a lot of coverage about the chief of police in this case having been previously fired from her job in Atlanta for covering up a child p0rn scandal.  She was also involved with a similar “special task force” called the Red Dogs in Atlanta.  It was similar to the Scorpion unit in Memphis responsible for this murder.  The Atlanta unit had also been charged with excessive force, brutality, etc. before the Atlanta mayor disbanded it. 

 

  
 

https://atlantadailyworld.com/2023/01/30/police-chief-in-tyre-nichols-investigation-once-served-on-infamous-red-dog-unit-fired-over-sex-crime-scandal/?amp=1

 

“Memphis Police Chief Cerelyn “C.J.” Davis is currently in charge of investigating the Tyre Nichols murder. Before taking over as the chief of the Memphis Police Department, Davis started her career with the Atlanta Police Department. 

In 2006, Davis served as the Commander of the APD’s infamous Red Dog Unit. The unit was started in the late 1980s to combat the drug crews that initiated violence in urban communities. The Red Dog Unit was known for its aggressive tactics when it came to arrests and fighting crimes. 

In 2011, Mayor Kasim Reed disbanded the Red Dog Unit due to a multitude of accusations of excessive force, police brutality, illegal searches, and a violation of civil rights. 
…

Davis was fired from the APD in 2008 after two detectives revealed that she told them not to investigate Terrill Marion Crane who was accused of having images of himself with underage girls.”

 

 

 

Police departments move around “bad apples” in the same manner the Catholic Church moved around predatory priests.  The chief created the culture within the department where this behavior was acceptable, not once, but twice.  And in a few years she’ll be doing it again somewhere else.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

This was eye opening for me - I didn't know where some of these attitudes originated.

The Police Folklore that Helped Kill Tyre Nichols

There is a definite mantra of whatever it takes to go home.  I feel that, though. The other day I was stabbed in the arm by a patient and my only real thought was—I need to make it home.

But I’m not in the business of tackling people and was able to simply remove myself from the situation and de-escalate it from a safe place.  And fortunately the police that showed up didn’t reescalate it—but when you view everyone as a threat to going home to your kids, that changes what you’ll do.  I can absolutely see that situation turn bad if I was trained in the mentality that upset people are probably trying to kill me. Instead, I teach that the vast majority are just people having a hard time, and that’s what I practice.

Just random thoughts.  I teach neurodiversity training and de-escalation techniques at our law enforcement academy here.  The lead instructor is a friend’s dad and has me come in and speak a few times to every recruit class.  We talk a lot about how some people won’t comply but are not trying to harm you. They are afraid, neurodiverse, traumatized, confused, or a million other things.  

Do you know how much money is alloted to bring in subject matter experts on things like autism or mental health emergencies or neurodiversity? Zero.  He pays me out of his own pocket, and I think it’s important enough that I only ask enough to cover my gas costs.  I started these trainings after my own then ten year old autistic child wound up handcuffed and pinned to the floor with a 250 pound police officer’s knee in his back when I got there.

That police officer is scared to death of me now. 

but everything starts with training. but training costs money and no one wants to spend money.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, Heartstrings said:

 

Davis was fired from the APD in 2008 after two detectives revealed that she told them not to investigate Terrill Marion Crane who was accused of having images of himself with underage girls.”

...

FWIW - This article fails to say that she appealed her firing with APD and was reinstated. I am looking for details that aren't behind a paywall & will post them if I find them. Not that this necessarily changes anything, but it's just another example of how the media can leave out pieces of information that don't support their click bait goals.

ETA: I found this buried in a profile of her:

"She was fired in 2008 after being accused of telling officers to not investigate a sex crimes case involving an Atlanta police sergeant, according to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. She was later reinstated after challenging the allegations, the outlet reported, and continued working there until 2016, when she moved to North Carolina to lead the Durham Police Department.

She spent five years in Durham, including during the police brutality protests in the summer of 2020.

During that pivotal moment for law enforcement, Davis also served as president of NOBLE, the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, which calls for equity in policing.

She testified before the Senate in 2020 as the body debated federal action on police reform, telling lawmakers of the need to curb qualified immunity, the legal doctrine that shields law enforcement from liability in constitutional violations. She also called for an accelerated adoption of changes like better data collection and mandatory requirements for fellow officers to step in if another officer is using excessive force."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/28/us/cerelyn-davis-memphis-police-chief-tyre-nichols/index.html

Edited January 31, 2023 by TechWife

[Heartstrings]

12 minutes ago, TechWife said:

FWIW - This article fails to say that she appealed her firing with APD and was reinstated. I am looking for details that aren't behind a paywall & will post them if I find them. Not that this necessarily changes anything, but it's just another example of how the media can leave out pieces of information that don't support their click bait goals.

Her being reinstated doesn’t mean much to me, honestly.  That’s not necessarily an indication of her having been fired unjustly, it’s an indicator of a system designed to protect bad cops at all cost.  She was fired because 2 other officers spoke up about her misconduct in that CP investigation.  The details of her firing are almost a side note for me though.  The most damning part is that she headed another violent “task force”, one that was disbanded by the mayor due to its culture of violence and not respecting civil liberties.  
People in this thread are asking why these cops felt like they could act like this, how was the culture so bad?   This is one answer.  This chief was known to promote that kind of culture but still got the job in Memphis.  

Edited January 31, 2023 by Heartstrings

[TechWife]

1 minute ago, Heartstrings said:

Her being reinstated doesn’t mean much to me, honestly.  That’s not necessarily an indication of her having been fired unjustly, it’s an indicator of a system designed to protect bad cops at all cost.  She was fired because 2 other officers spoke up about her misconduct in that CP investigation.  The details of her firing are almost a side note for me though.  The most damning part is that she headed another violent “task force”, one that was disbanded by the mayor due to its culture of violence and not respecting civil liberties.  
People in this thread are asking why these cops felt like they could act like this, how was the culture so bad?   This is one answer.  This chief was known to promote that kind of culture but still got the job in Memphis.  

Yes, I completely understand this. I'm just pointing out that there's more than meets the eye sometimes. She was also demoted prior to her firing.

[Heartstrings]

10 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Yes, I completely understand this. I'm just pointing out that there's more than meets the eye sometimes. She was also demoted prior to her firing.

It seems like no one wants to cover this angle.  Maybe because the “story” is how this amazing black, female chief immediately fired these bad apple cops.  The Atlanta paper is covering as a way to get in on a big story and some international papers have picked that up.  None of the big American papers are covering it.

 

It doesn’t seem to me like she was a great candidate for the job in Memphis, even based on the info you’ve provided.  There was no cop in the country with a better record? Why is THIS the kind of cop that gets elevated to chief?  These are the questions we need to answer to get to the reasons for the type of culture that invites and encourages brutality.  
 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

 

but everything starts with training. but training costs money and no one wants to spend money.

And yet, there is always money for more weaponry and tech. Sickening!

I think the only way to facilitate change is to bankrupt police departments defending themselves from lawsuits leaving them entirely gutted. Then and only then might the powers that be listen to us. Money had always been the ONLY driving force of this country.

[brehon]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

There is a definite mantra of whatever it takes to go home.  I feel that, though. The other day I was stabbed in the arm by a patient and my only real thought was—I need to make it home.

But I’m not in the business of tackling people and was able to simply remove myself from the situation and de-escalate it from a safe place.  And fortunately the police that showed up didn’t reescalate it—but when you view everyone as a threat to going home to your kids, that changes what you’ll do.  I can absolutely see that situation turn bad if I was trained in the mentality that upset people are probably trying to kill me. Instead, I teach that the vast majority are just people having a hard time, and that’s what I practice.

Agree with Mrs. TW here. I’ve been shot at, stabbed in an extremity (fortunately not a serious wound), punched, kicked, etc. You best believe in those situations that my only thought is getting home safe at the end of my shift. And in the moment, how that happens is of secondary importance.

Like Mrs. TW, it’s not my job to tackle or physically restrain people (generally speaking & outside of patient/crew safety; I can/do use physical restraints in conjunction with sedation). I’ve had to remind LEOs and even firefighters not to take what a patient says or does personally because that’s not how it’s meant. I’ve certainly seen LE escalate situations such that I needed to then intervene. But I’ve also seen the opposite — LE work very hard to de-escalate situations.

I know that in my system and others around the area, we’re taught de-escalation and calming techniques  Unfortunately, I’m not sure if those techniques are taught to the various LE agencies.

What happened to Tyre Nichols, though? That wasn’t a matter of de-escalation; that was brute force and mob mentality. 

 

 

[TechWife]

14 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

It seems like no one wants to cover this angle.  Maybe because the “story” is how this amazing black, female chief immediately fired these bad apple cops.  The Atlanta paper is covering as a way to get in on a big story and some international papers have picked that up.  None of the big American papers are covering it.

 

It doesn’t seem to me like she was a great candidate for the job in Memphis, even based on the info you’ve provided.  There was no cop in the country with a better record? Why is THIS the kind of cop that gets elevated to chief?  These are the questions we need to answer to get to the reasons for the type of culture that invites and encourages brutality.  
 

Her job history, probably. Immediately prior to Memphis, she was the police chief in Durham, NC. The local paper is behind a paywall so I don't know what they are saying. I haven't checked local news stations yet.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by TechWife

[Heartstrings]

34 minutes ago, TechWife said:

FWIW - This article fails to say that she appealed her firing with APD and was reinstated. I am looking for details that aren't behind a paywall & will post them if I find them. Not that this necessarily changes anything, but it's just another example of how the media can leave out pieces of information that don't support their click bait goals.

ETA: I found this buried in a profile of her:

"She was fired in 2008 after being accused of telling officers to not investigate a sex crimes case involving an Atlanta police sergeant, according to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. She was later reinstated after challenging the allegations, the outlet reported, and continued working there until 2016, when she moved to North Carolina to lead the Durham Police Department.

She spent five years in Durham, including during the police brutality protests in the summer of 2020.

During that pivotal moment for law enforcement, Davis also served as president of NOBLE, the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, which calls for equity in policing.

She testified before the Senate in 2020 as the body debated federal action on police reform, telling lawmakers of the need to curb qualified immunity, the legal doctrine that shields law enforcement from liability in constitutional violations. She also called for an accelerated adoption of changes like better data collection and mandatory requirements for fellow officers to step in if another officer is using excessive force."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/28/us/cerelyn-davis-memphis-police-chief-tyre-nichols/index.html

It sounds like she was able to say the right things in public, but the culture in 2 different places under her leadership was one of brutality and trampling civil rights.  The Catholic Church spoke out against child abuse and sexual sin while moving predator priests around from parish to parish allowing them to abuse too.  

[TechWife]

3 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

It sounds like she was able to say the right things in public, but the culture in 2 different places under her leadership was one of brutality and trampling civil rights.  The Catholic Church spoke out against child abuse and sexual sin while moving predator priests around from parish to parish allowing them to abuse too.  

Okay - found something.  Durham is sandwiched between ATL and Memphis. Very different than the ATL stories.

Durham Chief Leaving to Lead Police in Memphis

"Schewel credited Davis with rebuilding trust between the police department and Durham residents, reducing over-policing in minority neighborhoods and expanding cooperation between the department and the Durham County Sheriff's Office.

'She’s made some great changes,' Middleton agreed. 'She was successful in translating Durham’s values and putting them into action, into police posture. When you think about things like her cessation of checkpoints, she ordered the department to stand down just stopping cars for minor equipment issues.' "

 

 

[TechWife]

21 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

It sounds like she was able to say the right things in public, but the culture in 2 different places under her leadership was one of brutality and trampling civil rights.  The Catholic Church spoke out against child abuse and sexual sin while moving predator priests around from parish to parish allowing them to abuse too.  

Her firing/reinstatement in ATL centered around a child porn investigation. Was there a record of brutality and trampling civil rights in ATL under her leadership? I don't want to jump to conclusions. Maybe her current views on police reform aren't far from her history in these areas as they seem to be at first glance. Of course, it doesn't mean she isn't without fault or doesn't bear any responsibility, just that we will likely never know the full story of what happened in ATL because it is a personnel matter.

According to this,  ATL REDDOG unit was disbanded prior to her leaving ATL due to public demand for change.

It's quite possible that she has evolved in her viewpoints and policing philosophy from the time she led the ATL Red dog unit. Time will tell.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by TechWife

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

There is a definite mantra of whatever it takes to go home.  I feel that, though. The other day I was stabbed in the arm by a patient and my only real thought was—I need to make it home.

But I’m not in the business of tackling people and was able to simply remove myself from the situation and de-escalate it from a safe place.  And fortunately the police that showed up didn’t reescalate it—but when you view everyone as a threat to going home to your kids, that changes what you’ll do.  I can absolutely see that situation turn bad if I was trained in the mentality that upset people are probably trying to kill me. Instead, I teach that the vast majority are just people having a hard time, and that’s what I practice.

Just random thoughts.  I teach neurodiversity training and de-escalation techniques at our law enforcement academy here.  The lead instructor is a friend’s dad and has me come in and speak a few times to every recruit class.  We talk a lot about how some people won’t comply but are not trying to harm you. They are afraid, neurodiverse, traumatized, confused, or a million other things.  

Do you know how much money is alloted to bring in subject matter experts on things like autism or mental health emergencies or neurodiversity? Zero.  He pays me out of his own pocket, and I think it’s important enough that I only ask enough to cover my gas costs.  I started these trainings after my own then ten year old autistic child wound up handcuffed and pinned to the floor with a 250 pound police officer’s knee in his back when I got there.

That police officer is scared to death of me now. 

but everything starts with training. but training costs money and no one wants to spend money.

This kind of thing is what’s terrifying me, besides the fact that DS is a black boy who’s super sweet/generous of spirit, his autism makes him slower to respond to rapid fire questions and demands. I’ve researched/considered having a magnet affixed to the car’s windows to alert anyone who approaches to respond to him differently. That wouldn’t stop what happened to Mr. Nichols tho.

[Heartstrings]

31 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Her firing/reinstatement in ATL centered around a child porn investigation. Was there a record of brutality and trampling civil rights in ATL under her leadership? I don't want to jump to conclusions. Maybe her current views on police reform aren't far from her history in these areas as they seem to be at first glance. Of course, it doesn't mean she isn't without fault or doesn't bear any responsibility, just that we will likely never know the full story of what happened in ATL because it is a personnel matter.

According to this,  ATL REDDOG unit was disbanded prior to her leaving ATL due to public demand for change.

It's quite possible that she has evolved in her viewpoints and policing philosophy from the time she led the ATL Red dog unit. Time will tell.

 

We’ll, piecing it together a bit.  
As chief, the Red Dog unit operated under  her leadership. 
The Red Dog unit was disbanded by the mayor due to public demand.  Why did the public demand that? Because the unit was accused of brutality etc. and the mayor felt public pressure to end it. 
 

She then moves eventually to Memphis and creates a very similar task force in Memphis, with all of the same issues.  It gets disbanded after murdering Tyre Nichols on camera, not a moment before, despite having the same reports of brutality, etc. She didn’t disband it after reports of brutality.   It operated until a violent murder was caught on video.  
 

Im going to say it doesn’t appear that she evolved and grew. It looks like her task forces get disbanded by others once the brutality reaches a level where it can’t be ignored further.  
 

*edited to correct error.  She didn’t disband Scorpion, she created it.  

 

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Sneezyone]

2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

There is a definite mantra of whatever it takes to go home.  I feel that, though. The other day I was stabbed in the arm by a patient and my only real thought was—I need to make it home.

But I’m not in the business of tackling people and was able to simply remove myself from the situation and de-escalate it from a safe place.  And fortunately the police that showed up didn’t reescalate it—but when you view everyone as a threat to going home to your kids, that changes what you’ll do.  I can absolutely see that situation turn bad if I was trained in the mentality that upset people are probably trying to kill me. Instead, I teach that the vast majority are just people having a hard time, and that’s what I practice.

Just random thoughts.  I teach neurodiversity training and de-escalation techniques at our law enforcement academy here.  The lead instructor is a friend’s dad and has me come in and speak a few times to every recruit class.  We talk a lot about how some people won’t comply but are not trying to harm you. They are afraid, neurodiverse, traumatized, confused, or a million other things.  

Do you know how much money is alloted to bring in subject matter experts on things like autism or mental health emergencies or neurodiversity? Zero.  He pays me out of his own pocket, and I think it’s important enough that I only ask enough to cover my gas costs.  I started these trainings after my own then ten year old autistic child wound up handcuffed and pinned to the floor with a 250 pound police officer’s knee in his back when I got there.

That police officer is scared to death of me now. 

but everything starts with training. but training costs money and no one wants to spend money.

Can I pm you for some lessons learned?

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

That police officer is scared to death of me now. 

Good. I remember this happening, and I am glad he's terrified. He should be.

10 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

This kind of thing is what’s terrifying me, besides the fact that DS is a black boy who’s super sweet/generous of spirit, his autism makes him slower to respond to rapid fire questions and demands. I’ve researched/considered having a magnet affixed to the car’s windows to alert anyone who approaches to respond to him differently. That wouldn’t stop what happened to Mr. Nichols tho.

Our state has a completely voluntary program where you can list the license plates of any vehicles you drive so that when they run the plates, it indicates that a person with a "communication disorder" could be a passenger or driver (so if you have a kid in the back that might elope or freak out, complicating things, that's covered as well). It's very broad on purpose to include anything from deafness to autism. They don't know what the diagnosis is. You can removed the information from the BMV at any time. It doesn't affect your license or tag renewal, etc. 

It was instituted with effort and input from the disability community.

I don't know if your state has something like that, but if they do not, the vocational rehab people or disability advocacy groups in your state might have some best practice suggestions. 

[I already heard from people on the forum who think that this option is a trap when I posted about it last year-ish, so if you're reading along and annoyed I'm bringing it up again, feel free to find the link with your previous objections for Sneezyone's perusal--I am not going to run that gauntlet again as it was brutal enough the first time. I did my research and am comfortable with our family's choices. What your state does is not necessarily what my state does. YMMV.]