Club Q And Violence to LGBTQ

[Ting Tang]

5 minutes ago, TarynB said:

Actually, it seems even worse than that. He had a gun (guns?), got it taken away after the bomb threat incident, and then authorities gave him back the gun after no bomb charges were pursued. 

Insanity.  It is crazy that we are basically letting things like this happen far too often!

[Corraleno]

I haven't seen any sources claiming that they actually removed his guns after the bomb threat; the El Paso County Sheriff is openly opposed to red flag laws and says the family has to petition the court if they want weapons removed, the sheriff's office will not petition to remove weapons. And even when red flag laws are implemented, they're often lifted fairly quickly.

The only person Aldrich threatened was his mother, she's the one who called police, and the investigation determined that he was bluffing and there never was a bomb. Since his mother was posting online afterwards asking for recommendations for a good defense attorney, it seems unlikely that she would press charges or cooperate with the investigation, and the case was dropped. Why the case was also sealed is an interesting question, though.

 

[ktgrok]

Sunday morning our church prayed for the victims and their families, right after baptizing a little boy presented by a gay couple, two dads. So grateful our church is a "safe" space for families like that, but at the same time, it struck me that by baptizing that little boy, we as a church were also making ourselves a potential target. Wouldn't change a thing about how our church behaves, but it is sobering and honestly, shocking, to think that showing love and welcoming a toddler into the family of God could potentially lead people to want to kill us. 

[Lucy the Valiant]

According to Axios, the shooter was non-binary. 

https://www.axios.com/2022/11/23/colorado-club-shooting-suspect-non-binary-attorneys-say

[heartlikealion]

Saw a pic of a Colorado hero circulating on Facebook. Dunno if the man is bi or what (my first thought was see not everyone in a gay bar identifies as gay. Thinking of an earlier comment saying gay guys took down the shooter), but image features his wife. My phone won’t let me paste the link, but people were encouraged to buy merch from his bar to support him.
 

 

[Faith-manor]

11 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Sunday morning our church prayed for the victims and their families, right after baptizing a little boy presented by a gay couple, two dads. So grateful our church is a "safe" space for families like that, but at the same time, it struck me that by baptizing that little boy, we as a church were also making ourselves a potential target. Wouldn't change a thing about how our church behaves, but it is sobering and honestly, shocking, to think that showing love and welcoming a toddler into the family of God could potentially lead people to want to kill us. 

I am thankful, ever so thankful, that your church stood for what is right, and embraced that little boy with open arms regardless of the potential cost. That is about the most Jesusy thing I have heard of any church doing in many, many years. I am heart broken that there is an act of bravery in this country for your church family to do this.

[Dmmetler]

12 hours ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

According to Axios, the shooter was non-binary. 

https://www.axios.com/2022/11/23/colorado-club-shooting-suspect-non-binary-attorneys-say

Except that there's no evidence of this in past social media or family posts. Which makes it seem potentially a way of avoiding hate crime charges and further smearing the LGBTQIA+ community. 

[heartlikealion]

1 minute ago, Dmmetler said:

Except that there's no evidence of this in past social media or family posts. Which makes it seem potentially a way of avoiding hate crime charges and further smearing the LGBTQIA+ community. 

Good point. 

[KSera]

2 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

Except that there's no evidence of this in past social media or family posts. Which makes it seem potentially a way of avoiding hate crime charges and further smearing the LGBTQIA+ community. 

That was my immediate reading of it as well. The fact that someone felt like it was relevant to post just that statement without any explanation of why they think it matters plays into that more. I bet this element is getting lots of coverage and talk in certain “news” spaces 🙄. 

[livetoread]

3 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Saw a pic of a Colorado hero circulating on Facebook. Dunno if the man is bi or what (my first thought was see not everyone in a gay bar identifies as gay. Thinking of an earlier comment saying gay guys took down the shooter), but image features his wife. My phone won’t let me paste the link, but people were encouraged to buy merch from his bar to support him.
 

 

I assume he's straight. He was there with his wife, daughter, and daughter's bf and they were there to watch daughter's close friend who is a drag queen. Daughter's bf was killed.

[prairiewindmomma]

3 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Saw a pic of a Colorado hero circulating on Facebook. Dunno if the man is bi or what (my first thought was see not everyone in a gay bar identifies as gay. Thinking of an earlier comment saying gay guys took down the shooter), but image features his wife. My phone won’t let me paste the link, but people were encouraged to buy merch from his bar to support him.
 

 

Not everyone who goes to gay bars is gay. The exmilitary guy who beat the shooter, Richard Fierro, was there with his wife and daughter and his daughter’s friends. Fierro watched his daughter’s boyfriend, Raymond Vance, be killed by Aldrich and then realized he needed to stop the shooter. 
 

Fierro owns a local brewery.

[prairiewindmomma]

Live to read and I posted at the same time. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by prairiewindmomma

[livetoread]

If the shooter is nonbinary, it makes it more likely the shooting was motivated by an interpersonal conflict rather than hate. It's also still possibly motivated by hate - self-loathing turned both inward and outward in a society that sees you as loathsome.

So it's relevant, if true, but still doesn't mean hate wasn't involved. And even if it turns out to be strictly personal and not directed at the community (unlikely), the fact that the info will be used to try and argue lgbtq+ folks "don't have it so bad so quit your whining" by many still isn't okay.

[LucyStoner]

23 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

Except that there's no evidence of this in past social media or family posts. Which makes it seem potentially a way of avoiding hate crime charges and further smearing the LGBTQIA+ community. 

I would agree except also add in that internalized homophobia on the part of the perpetrators is a *really* common thread in a lot of violence against LGBT folks. 

The community isn't a monolith and the possible sexual orientation or gender identity of the shooter is not a reflection on all (or any) others with the same characteristic.  It wouldn't lessen the criminal nature of the shooter's unconscionable and horrific actions.  If it's a strategy or the truth, it doesn't mean the crime was less serious.  In my experience, it takes time for the actual truth to come out - far too often people project what they want to be true onto horrific news stories.  

Edited November 23, 2022 by LucyStoner

[heartlikealion]

10 minutes ago, livetoread said:

I assume he's straight. He was there with his wife, daughter, and daughter's bf and they were there to watch daughter's close friend who is a drag queen. Daughter's bf was killed.

 

9 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Not everyone who goes to gay bars is gay. The exmilitary guy who beat the shooter, Richard Fierro, was there with his wife and daughter and his daughter’s friends. Fierro watched his daughter’s boyfriend, Raymond Vance, be killed by Aldrich and then realized he needed to stop the shooter. 
 

Fierro owns a local brewery.

Exactly my point earlier in the thread. I've gone to gay bars before and I identify as straight. So I didn't want to assume one way or the other that the guy or guys that took down the shooter were gay. I'm just glad someone stepped in and didn't die. 

ETA: yikes about the boyfriend dying. 😞 

Edited November 23, 2022 by heartlikealion

[Ting Tang]

Well everyone, the new mass shooting headline of the day is the Walmart mass shooting in Virginia.  😞  

[heartlikealion]

1 minute ago, Ting Tang said:

Well everyone, the new mass shooting headline of the day is the Walmart mass shooting in Virginia.  😞  

Oh no 

[prairiewindmomma]

Interview with the dad by a CBS affiliate station: 

Start watching right around 1:25…when told his son was involved in a shooting at a gay bar, he expresses relief that his son is not gay (implying relief he was the shooter and not there because he was gay)

The interview leads me to believe the father needs another intervention for his “previous” meth habit, as well as a number of other things…

 

[KSera]

54 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Interview with the dad by a CBS affiliate station: 

Start watching right around 1:25…when told his son was involved in a shooting at a gay bar, he expresses relief that his son is not gay (implying relief he was the shooter and not there because he was gay)

The interview leads me to believe the father needs another intervention for his “previous” meth habit, as well as a number of other things…

 

I couldn’t get through the whole thing—felt kind of exploitative as the father clearly isn’t fully in his right mind (notice how they tell him that he’s accused of killing five people right near the beginning, but later in the interview he says “he didn’t kill anyone, did he?”) Clearly a screwed up family situation at least as far as his dad goes. His dad’s comment about “at least he’s not gay” was sickening. 

[Ting Tang]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

I couldn’t get through the whole thing—felt kind of exploitative as the father clearly isn’t fully in his right mind (notice how they tell him that he’s accused of killing five people right near the beginning, but later in the interview he says “he didn’t kill anyone, did he?”) Clearly a screwed up family situation at least as far as his dad goes. His dad’s comment about “at least he’s not gay” was sickening. 

Same.  He isn't in his right mind, and this situation with his son doesn't help.  I thought I'd read something completely different about the suspect's family. I was either dreaming or I am just getting them all confused since there are so many.

[KSera]

For people whose kids are very affected by this, how are they coping? It’s not good here. They feel like they’re walking around with a target on their back 😞. As if life isn’t already hard enough. 

[Melissa Louise]

2 hours ago, KSera said:

For people whose kids are very affected by this, how are they coping? It’s not good here. They feel like they’re walking around with a target on their back 😞. As if life isn’t already hard enough. 

I've done this with my eldest - other people's mileage may vary - did a risk assessment. Eldest's concerns centred on pt at the time. 

We looked at statistics, basically, which showed a. how unlikely assault on our pt system is and b. how females with her presentation were not at any increased risk.

In other words, we reality tested the idea that she was at some highly elevated risk. This was not to invalidate her; it was to give her some internal freedom from a (for her context) inaccurate narrative causing her harm (restricting travel).

We also brainstormed options in the very unlikely event that someone was on the train seeking to target females with her  presentation. 

Now, we don't have guns in the mix...I don't know what you do about that. 

Reality testing may look different in your neck of the woods - you may have to.look at the demographics more closely eg a white enby female not involved in s*x work or suffering IPV does not have the same target as the male trans s*x worker. 

Basically, help reality test the emotional narrative. But only when DC is willing. 

 

 

[KSera]

36 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I've done this with my eldest - other people's mileage may vary - did a risk assessment. Eldest's concerns centred on pt at the time. 

We looked at statistics, basically, which showed a. how unlikely assault on our pt system is and b. how females with her presentation were not at any increased risk.

In other words, we reality tested the idea that she was at some highly elevated risk. This was not to invalidate her; it was to give her some internal freedom from a (for her context) inaccurate narrative causing her harm (restricting travel).

We also brainstormed options in the very unlikely event that someone was on the train seeking to target females with her  presentation. 

Now, we don't have guns in the mix...I don't know what you do about that. 

Reality testing may look different in your neck of the woods - you may have to.look at the demographics more closely eg a white enby female not involved in s*x work or suffering IPV does not have the same target as the male trans s*x worker. 

Basically, help reality test the emotional narrative. But only when DC is willing. 

 

 

Thanks for this. I do think that sometime this will be a helpful thing to do. I think not right now as currently their concern is not only for them self but for their friends and for other people that they will never meet but that they feel part of a common community with. Based on what I know statistically, I do not believe they are at any higher risk than any of the rest of us in the US (which is unacceptably high, no question). So I think there’s two issues, one the LGBT persecution specific feeling, and the other generalized fear of being in a mass shooting which they have carried with them since they entered their young adult years became more in tune with the news 😢.  

I may have some questions for you about the above in a couple weeks though, if you’re willing  

 

[prairiewindmomma]

@Melissa Louise, I get the sense things are much safer in Aus. The level of street harassment, incidents in schools, targeted speech by politicians, etc. is much higher here than it has been in the past as sexuality has become politicized. (I am happy to pm on this point but am trying to respect board rules.)

My kids’ school buildings regularly go on lockdown, and they walk through halls with police carrying rifles while they clear rooms one by one. They feel things viscerally in a way I couldn’t imagine at their age with re: to gun violence.

The stats here aren’t encouraging. Even just being a bisexual woman puts your lifetime risk of being sexually assaulted at 50%.  But, violence against who you are isn’t just about being shot or raped or beaten…it’s the day to day harassment that is very real and very much a part of my kid’s life. 
 
 

 

 

[KungFuPanda]

9 hours ago, KSera said:

For people whose kids are very affected by this, how are they coping? It’s not good here. They feel like they’re walking around with a target on their back 😞. As if life isn’t already hard enough. 

My niece is having a hard time. This is a club she frequents with her friends and she’s really shaken up. I don’t think she was close to anyone who died, but it’s still horrific and scary to think a ‘safe’ place has been violated or that her son could be motherless because she went out with friends one night. 

[Melissa Louise]

7 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

@Melissa Louise, I get the sense things are much safer in Aus. The level of street harassment, incidents in schools, targeted speech by politicians, etc. is much higher here than it has been in the past as sexuality has become politicized. (I am happy to pm on this point but am trying to respect board rules.)

My kids’ school buildings regularly go on lockdown, and they walk through halls with police carrying rifles while they clear rooms one by one. They feel things viscerally in a way I couldn’t imagine at their age with re: to gun violence.

The stats here aren’t encouraging. Even just being a bisexual woman puts your lifetime risk of being sexually assaulted at 50%.  But, violence against who you are isn’t just about being shot or raped or beaten…it’s the day to day harassment that is very real and very much a part of my kid’s life. 
 
 

 

 

Daily harrassment is sad. Can DC move locations?