Course descriptions - how long are yours?

[mlktwins]

I'm nervous!  How many pages are your course descriptions and font and font size did you use?  Mine is long and I'm worried it won't fit!

ETA:  If I take it to 10 point instead of 11, it is goes to 17 pages.

Edited October 24, 2022 by mlktwins

[EKS]

Mine were a single paragraph in what looks to be 10 or 11 point Times New Roman.  I fit 4-5 to a page, and the document was 11 pages long.

[cintinative]

Um, they are supposed to be restricted in terms of pages? EEEEK.  

I have huge book lists for my self-created courses.  Mine is currently 24 pages--it does have a table of contents though, so maybe that will make it easier for them to read what they want?  

I have a junior, so I am not submitting these for another 11 months or so.  I will probably run them past Farrar for a professional's eye but I like how readable they are right now. I am super hesitant to cram everything into a smaller space just to make it less pages. 

[mlktwins]

24 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Um, they are supposed to be restricted in terms of pages? EEEEK.  

I have huge book lists for my self-created courses.  Mine is currently 24 pages--it does have a table of contents though, so maybe that will make it easier for them to read what they want?  

I have a junior, so I am not submitting these for another 11 months or so.  I will probably run them past Farrar for a professional's eye but I like how readable they are right now. I am super hesitant to cram everything into a smaller space just to make it less pages. 

It is good you have another year.  I'll let you know if mine fit!

[Eos]

11 pt Arial, 1 page transcript, 7 pages of portfolio, lab report, 3 grades attachments.  Each course description varies, from almost a whole page of English texts and poetry to a short paragraph for health.  Most of my course descriptions are short paragraphs that cover 5 vertical lines.

[mlktwins]

12 minutes ago, Eos said:

11 pt Arial, 1 page transcript, 7 pages of portfolio, lab report, 3 grades attachments.  Each course description varies, from almost a whole page of English texts and poetry to a short paragraph for health.  Most of my course descriptions are short paragraphs that cover 5 vertical lines.

Thank you. This is just course descriptions.  Many are short, but my English are long (because of bulleted book lists). History and science aren’t short either because I used a lot of the teacher’s descriptions. I can always cut, but I’d rather not.

 

[cintinative]

5 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

Thank you. This is just course descriptions.  Many are short, but my English are long (because of bulleted book lists). History and science aren’t short either because I used a lot of the teacher’s descriptions. I can always cut, but I’d rather not.

 

Is it because you have to cut and paste into a form that it is too long? Or does the school specify no more than ___ pages?   I thought they were included as a pdf attachment in the common app.

[mlktwins]

2 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Is it because you have to cut and paste into a form that it is too long? Or does the school specify no more than ___ pages?   I thought they were included as a pdf attachment in the common app.

No requirements from any of our schools. I did use a specific format that I love.  I’m concerned about the file size being too big for the common app???

[cintinative]

8 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

No requirements from any of our schools. I did use a specific format that I love.  I’m concerned about the file size being too big for the common app???

Gotcha. When I was paging through the HS motherlode there was someone who mentioned using a program to compress the file size.  I figured I would do that. 

[regentrude]

8 pages total for everything.
Self-designed courses for integrated lit & history or electives get half a page each.
All math courses with standard topic coverage fit on one page together.
Standard science courses with typical sequence 3 to a page.
College courses got the 2 sentence course description from the college catalog.

As courtesy to the reader, I would not use anything smaller than 12 point font. 

[regentrude]

2 hours ago, cintinative said:

I have huge book lists for my self-created courses.  Mine is currently 24 pages--it does have a table of contents though, so maybe that will make it easier for them to read what they want?  

I cannot imagine anybody will want to read this.

[kokotg]

Mine for my last kid was 11 pages of 11 pt type

[EKS]

2 hours ago, mlktwins said:

because of bulleted book lists

I did away with bulleted lists and just listed everything in the form of a very long sentence.  It's actually quite readable.

[BusyMom5]

So I made a list, based on what I read here and elsewhere online.  I think it was 6-8 pages long.  None of the colleges she applied to even wanted a copy.  They said I could send it, if I wanted to, but that they took homeschool courses on the honors system, and looked at DE and test scores as well.  YMMV.  I still keep notes and make a very brief course description,  but I will not be sending a list of every book on my syllabus unless asked.  For English classes, I think you are listing too much.  I eventually got mine down to a brief paragraph.  It depends on where they are applying,  but most admissions teams only spend a few minutes looking through all your stuff- keep it brief.  Focus on the important stuff your kid has done.  I can't believe they care about my educational philosophy,  even though I'd love to share!  

[mlktwins]

9 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

So I made a list, based on what I read here and elsewhere online.  I think it was 6-8 pages long.  None of the colleges she applied to even wanted a copy.  They said I could send it, if I wanted to, but that they took homeschool courses on the honors system, and looked at DE and test scores as well.  YMMV.  I still keep notes and make a very brief course description,  but I will not be sending a list of every book on my syllabus unless asked.  For English classes, I think you are listing too much.  I eventually got mine down to a brief paragraph.  It depends on where they are applying,  but most admissions teams only spend a few minutes looking through all your stuff- keep it brief.  Focus on the important stuff your kid has done.  I can't believe they care about my educational philosophy,  even though I'd love to share!  

Several of our schools specifically ask for them, along with syllabus for any courses I created. One is a high interest school for us. They said good course descriptions should be enough and that they would follow-up if they had any questions.

I am going to keep my current version and create a condensed version where I limit some info and don't bullet my book lists.  

I have 2 pages for math, a lot for English, Social Studies is just over 3 pages (3 of 4 classes outsourced) so I can cut some of those course descriptions to get to 2 pages, Science is 3 pages with all the labs listed (all 4 outsourced and using mostly their course descriptions), Spanish 2 pages, Health and Physical Education 1 page, and Electives just over 3 pages (2 of those are outsourced so I will try and cut that to 2 pages).

[ScoutTN]

10 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

So I made a list, based on what I read here and elsewhere online.  I think it was 6-8 pages long.  None of the colleges she applied to even wanted a copy.  They said I could send it, if I wanted to, but that they took homeschool courses on the honors system, and looked at DE and test scores as well.  YMMV.  I still keep notes and make a very brief course description,  but I will not be sending a list of every book on my syllabus unless asked.  For English classes, I think you are listing too much.  I eventually got mine down to a brief paragraph.  It depends on where they are applying,  but most admissions teams only spend a few minutes looking through all your stuff- keep it brief.  Focus on the important stuff your kid has done.  I can't believe they care about my educational philosophy,  even though I'd love to share!  

Yes, we had a similar experience. When I specifically asked about course descriptions, all 5 schools said Dd’s umbrella school transcript was enough. She is not applying to selective schools though, and is a strong applicant with solid academics and excellent leadership/ec’s. 

[threedogfarm]

I'm not an expert, but I wouldn't worry too much about length.  The one I submitted last year was 25 pages long.  This year's will probably be  a couple of pages longer.  I didn't have issues uploading on the common app with a file this big.

That said, my kid graduated with around 33 credits, so that's a lot of courses to describe! One school did reach out with additional questions that could only have been gleaned from the course descriptions. So some schools do read it!

Good luck!  

This is the last bit I have left. Only a couple of more courses to add...

[catz]

I wouldn't worry about length either.  

I put my in my transcript doc.  It is 13 pages long, 10 pages are course descriptions at 10.5 point.  The DE classes are just cut and paste of their descriptions and outcomes, instructor names and institutions, so those are very short (she has 37 credits through this semester) My descriptions for home taught stuff tends to be much longer and more detailed.  

[Lori D.]

21 hours ago, mlktwins said:

Thank you. This is just course descriptions.  Many are short, but my English are long (because of bulleted book lists)...

Make a separate complete book list to keep for yourself or to send if it is requested, and for the Course Description, just summarize major works covered. Example:

"This independently-created American Literature course focused on the overarching theme of the individual's disenfranchisement from society (along with additional themes unique to each work). Course work included background research on authors and their times/influences; reading / analyzing / comparing full works (rather than excerpts); and completion of [number] multi-page literary analysis essays, plus a number of shorter reader response papers. Major works of literature covered in-depth included: The Scarlet Letter (Nathaniel Hawthorne), The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn (Mark Twain), The Great Gatsby (F. Scott Fitzgerald), Their Eyes Were Watching God (Zora Neale Hurston), and Fahrenheit 451 (Ray Bradbury). Additionally, three other novels, over a dozen short stories, and fifty poems by American authors were read and discussed."
 

21 hours ago, mlktwins said:

...History and science aren’t short either because I used a lot of the teacher’s descriptions. I can always cut, but I’d rather not.

Are History and Science regular programs/texts covering standard topics? Those do NOT need to get lengthy. There is NO way an admission officer needs/wants to read the table of contents of topics of a pretty standardized subject (like Biology, etc.).

Even if the History credit was created by yourselves and used a ton of diverse resources, you can write it up similarly to the above English course example. Add a brief sentence here and there as needed to make a special extra effort or unique assignment shine. But keep special courses to half a page or less. And standard/traditional courses can be just a few sentences long, with a brief sentence like "The resources of XX, YY, and ZZ were added to this course for __(reason)*___." 

* = reason might be to something like to make the course Honors/Advanced level, or, for student to pursue topics of high interest as independent study, etc.

For DE courses or outsourced-online courses, you can use excerpts of the highlights/important bits from the course description -- no need to go into excruciating detail

Please be kind 😉 to the admissions officer who has to read through all of that and keep it to no more than  8-10 pages total, and type size that is easily readable (11-12 point). The admission officer is MUCH more likely to just glaze over and NOT really read your course descriptions if you send a tome -- overly-detailed and too-small type is more likely to hurt than help. And it could even end up looking like inflating or padding by listing every.single.resource.assignment.book.and.detail...

Just my 2 cents worth! 😄 Best of luck as you prepare final records and apply to colleges. Warmest regards, Lori D.

ETA -- PS #1
Since some schools request syllabi for created courses, make those separate documents (or a single separate Appendix of Syllabi document) and upload separately. Or if it all has to be in a single document, make an Appendix at the end of the shorter Course Description document, and add a footnote to those courses with a syllabi: "please refer to course syllabi attached in the Appendix at the end of this document for for details about this course"

ETA -- PS #2
Note that @regentrude's 8-page course description worked great to get her advanced DD into the HIGHLY selective (3% acceptance rate) University of Chicago. So QUANTITY of info is not important -- it is QUALITY of credits and succinct explanation of those high quality credits that counts. 😉

Edited October 25, 2022 by Lori D.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

10 pt font. 8 pages. I think most of the math classes fit on one page.

For book lists, I stuck to major works. I didn't list every short story. I usually only gave author and title, unless additional info really added something.  (I did include publisher for Art of Problem Solving and occasionally year of publication or edition for science texts.) ISBN isn't necessary for colleges (NCAA is its own thing. )

As you go through, ask if the content adds meaningful information. In my experience, colleges care more about how a course was structured than about a full listing of math or chemistry topics.

If it was an outside course, it can help to say that. But if the student did lots of courses with a couple outside sources, you could put some of that description of the environment into an educational partners section of the school profile. 

But it's also ok to ask the colleges. If they really want a multi page description per course, then give them that.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

My concern with longer course description docs is that it encourages skimming. And then you don't know if they are skipping boilerplate content (like algebra course content) or details of the innovative independent study project you really want them to see.

[Momto6inIN]

12 pt font, 9-10 pages, one paragraph per course, very abbreviated reading list

[mjbucks1]

When I did mine 3 years ago it was 40 pages!  It might have been overkill, but it fit 😀

[cintinative]

17 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

very abbreviated reading list

How did you decide what to include?

[Momto6inIN]

2 hours ago, cintinative said:

How did you decide what to include?

I only included 9ish works of literature each year - the ones that sounded the most impressive to me lol - and only the main text/video series, not every resource we used. I figured it was overkill to list more and they'd still get the flavor of what we accomplished.

I figured I'd rather someone read/skim the whole abbreviated thing than have someone decide not to read the unabridged version 🙂

[threedogfarm]

Last year I was discussing course descriptions with one of my friends who is a teacher at the local high school. I discovered that it was someone's main job to keep the course descriptions updated for the Common App.  I know those course descriptions serve other purposes, as well. But schools, at least the ones around us, take them very seriously and want to show the depth of classes they have to offer as well as highlight the challenging ones.  It made me realize that I shouldn't sell my kid short.  I agree with not going overboard with the reading lists, but I did list every single book (30!) my kid read for Scholar Seminar. It was an impressive list - and definitely demonstrates she's ready to take on any college-level literature class.  I know that my local high school would have listed every book that was required in that class.  BTW - that was one of the best WTMA classes my daughter took. She doesn't want to major in literature in college, but she was so disappointed that they didn't offer the class again with a different reading list because she wanted to take it again.  That's how much she enjoyed it.  

[JazzyMom]

My kids had 1 page of course descriptions, which was just a list of the name of courses and the textbook or provider used.  I also included a 1 page book list for literature courses, and a 2 page School Profile/Counselor Letter providing more details about interesting projects/coursework/activities that I considered to be above and beyond the norm.  So combined with the transcript, they had 5 pages total, and a few recommendation letters.  They both had excellent options.

I can’t imagine anyone wanting to read 30 plus pages of course descriptions or 10 pt font, LOL!  But obviously some people enjoy that level of detail, and it has worked out great for some!

Just sharing my experience for anyone whose head may be exploding.  Haha!

[idnib]

Somewhat related, I hope...

Were your course descriptions grouped by year, by subject, or by provider? And if they were by year, did you have the most recent or the oldest first?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

3 minutes ago, idnib said:

Somewhat related, I hope...

Were your course descriptions grouped by year, by subject, or by provider? And if they were by year, did you have the most recent or the oldest first?

I do by subject, then oldest to newest, but I lean towards subject transcripts. Going old to new tends to have an upward progression in rigor within a subject. 

But I think other organizations could make sense too, as long as there is internal consistency. I wouldn't do oldest to newest in one section then alphabetical in another for example. Make it easy to find the course they want to check.

[mlktwins]

I started mine by year, but changed to by subject - oldest to newest - with page breaks between subjects.  I thought it looked stronger that way.

[Eos]

By year, starting with Grade 12 Current Studies, then following the order in which they are presented on the transcript.  I appreciate the idea of showing upward levels of rigor, but I've always assumed that the reader is starting to glaze over by the end (9th grade) so I want them to see the most rigorous classes first.  

I bold each class title and the year headings.

[idnib]

Thanks everyone. Decisions, decisions....

[Alice]

Wow, mine were just over 5 pages with 11 pt font. I think it’s the default font size for pages on my computer, I didn’t really think about what to use. 

It’s totally fine that people do more...I just know sometimes I’d read this forum when my son was applying a few years ago and come away feeling overwhelmed and like we were complete slackers. 🙂 So I’m posting for those few people who might be panicking because their course descriptions are way smaller. 

For all the AP classes that he took that were official AP classes I just put "Taken at ________ (PA Homeschoolers for example). Designated as an AP Course by the College Board." I figured since that said they covered the standard AP curriculum and someone had to get it approved at some point. Plus, there was a test score that backed it up. 

For English, we didn’t have super lengthy lists of books but I did include them. I did include a separate document that listed every book he had read in high school, both independently and assigned. He had a very strong Math/Science transcript and a good but less strong Humanities transcript. But he was a voracious reader so I wanted to show that he had read widely and all kinds of books on his own....that also kind of helped explain one of our philosophies/reasons to homeschool. I didn’t expect the colleges to actually read through the whole list but it was an impressive list and I felt like even if they just skimmed it, it couldn’t hurt. However, I tried to keep the course descriptions short with the idea they would be more likely to be read.