Garden: September 2022

[Faith-manor]

Update:

I entitle this episode: "When Apple Trees Attack"

I am on my third five gallon bucket of apples. I have 14 quarts of dried apples and by the end of this bucket, 7 more. I have given away a dozen apples, and need to find someone who wants to come pick. I have fallen apples that would be great for livestock and have called around, but no one willing to come get them. I am tired of apples, and do not want to spend hours making applesauce at the end of dehydrating.

I also had an epiphany. Now I am sure all of you know this, have thought to do this, because, well ya'll aren't ignorant plant serial killing gardeners like me, but this was a new thought for my brain. Why am I making compost in the big holes around my raised beds so that I have to then dig it up in the spring and dump it into the raised beds? Except for the garlic, some scallions, and the cherry tomatoes and tomatillos, all the other plants have been pulled. Just put the apple peelings and grass clippings IN the raised beds and mix it up, let it compost in there. Duh. Sigh. Why is this whole learning curve on growing food so darn hard for me? Ugh.

So now I have one 4x2 bed being filled, and in a couple days the other beds will be completely harvested and the plants pulled, so all of them can begin getting kitchen and yard refuse. In October, leaves will start dropping so I can add them to the beds, mix it up with my trowel, and hopefully won't need to fertilize the soil in the spring before planting.

I am in awe of my honey crisp tree! I also feel like she is some sort of Marvel Comic tree and is growing apples overnight so that I am never done. I think I will be surrendering soon. I have some more 5 gallon buckets. I would pick up all the semi- decent ones on the ground and take them to a cider mill if I knew of one that would process them for me for a fee. However, so far I have not found a place that does that.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Faith-manor

[KungFuPanda]

7 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Update:

I entitle this episode: "When Apple Trees Attack"

I am on my third five gallon bucket of apples. I have 14 quarts of dried apples and by the end of this bucket, 7 more. I have given away a dozen apples, and need to find someone who wants to come pick. I have fallen apples that would be great for livestock and have called around, but no one willing to come get them. I am tired to apples, and do not want to spend hours making applesauce at the end of dehydrating.

I also had an epiphany. Now I am sure all of you know this, have thought to do this, because, well ya'll aren't ignorant plant serial killing gardeners like me, but this was a new thought for my brain. Why am I making compost in the big holes around my raised beds so that I have to then dig it up in the spring and dump it I to the raised beds? Except for the garlic, some scallions, and the cherry tomatoes and tomatillos, all the other plants have been pulled. Just put the apple feelings and grass clippings IN the raised beds and mix it up, let it compost in there. Duh. Sigh. Why is this whole learning curve on growing food so darn hard for me? Ugh.

So now I have one 4x2 bed being filled, and in a couple days the other beds will be completely harvested and the plants pulled, so all of them can begin getting kitchen and yard refuse. In October, leaves will start dropping so I can add them to the beds, mix it up with my trowel, and hopefully won't need to fertilize the soil in the spring before planting.

I am in awe of my honey crisp tree! I also feel like she is some sort of Marvel Comic tree and is growing apples overnight so that I am never done. I think I will be surrendering soon. I have some more 5 gallon buckets. I would pick up all the demon decent ones on the ground and take them to a cider mill if I knew of one that would process them for me for a fee. However, so far I have not found a place that does that.

I move my compost bin to a different raised bed each year so they all get a turn. It took me about a decade to think of this. I am planting a couple apple trees now, but I’m training them to stay small because I know my limitations. 

[kbutton]

On 9/6/2022 at 6:11 AM, Carrie12345 said:

Any advice for 5b from scratch?

Ive been skimming info about fruit trees and bushes going in in the fall, but it makes me nervous. I have two small blackberry bushes in grow bags at the old house.

Currently growing a clover lawn in front, and some grassy areas in the back! We had 12 truckloads of dirt hauled in to fix the rocky terrain, and a clearing made for future gardening .

You can cover the bushes a bit with leaves and such. Depending on what kind of trees they are, you can even tarp them with some leaves and/or pine needles around them until they get established. DH planted figs that are hardy in our zone, but they do much better with this extra touch.

Besides the other tips, I recommend finding a 4h person who has rabbit or alpaca manure and putting that on the garden this fall with the leaves and other stuff mentioned. It holds moisture (especially alpaca), and it's really good stuff. 

On 9/7/2022 at 8:50 PM, Faith-manor said:

Well the neighbor has a practically brand new very long, deep horse water trough that he doesn't want, and was just going to put it out to the road. So I asked about, and it is now in my back yard. It has a big drain plug so the plants can't get water logged, but otherwise also no entrance for weeds. SCORE!!!! Since it is high and I don't need 3 ft deep of top soil, I am going to fill the bottom with logs to take up some of the space, and then fill with soil and compost.

Note to self. Grow cilantro next year so I don't have to go seek it out when the tomatillos are ripe, and it is time to make verde. Also, get them into the raised bed sooner so they do not ripen at the exact same time that the apple tree is ready because at this point all I do is process harvest, and I am getting a little tired of my kitchen.

We grow sweet potatoes in a stock tank (ours is plastic). We also fill the bottom with other stuff-clumps of clay that we're amending, not quite ready compost, peat to make it lighter--whatever. 

On 9/7/2022 at 9:11 PM, cjzimmer1 said:

I know you've mentioned you are not the best with green plants so I want to give you advice on cilantro if you haven't grown it before. (If you have feel free to disregard).  Cilantro doesn't like the heat and goes to seed very quickly.  Do NOT grow it in full sun no matter what the packages says.  Even in shade it has a short life, it's best to have multiple plantings for the summer if you want to keep a fresh supply on hand.  If you only want it for the tomatillos, I would plant the cilantro 6-8 weeks before you expect to be picking them.  Also as soon as your start seeing any of the flower shoots, pick them off as soon as you can to prolong it in the leaf stage (versus going to seed)

If it does go to seed, you can easily collect and sow it next year. In my zone, it will self-sow sometimes for the next year, but it might be too cold where you are.

We have a ton of green beans (Cobra pole beans). Tomatoes are doing all right--moderately productive. DH planted Minnesota Midget cantaloupe, and he got a bumper crop (note: if it's going to sit on the counter for more than a day or so, pick it just a little bit before peak or it will rot). Sugar snap peas were okay. Cucumbers were okay (but tasty). Asparagus froze, and because it was the year we were supposed to pick only the first shoots, we just let it go, but we should have plenty next year. Sweet potatoes aren't harvested yet. DH has three fig trees; two are new and have quite a few figs, but they might not get big or ripen before a frost. The one he's had for several years has probably 100+ figs. I hope he has a plan and some time to do something with them! We don't have a robust dehydrator, but this might make it worth getting one. Ours is just the kind that's like a glorified hair dryer with racks. We had quite a few green onions, but I need to try the trick of trimming the green part and letting it regrow. 

[TechWife]

On 9/4/2022 at 2:28 PM, Serenade said:

I'm growing these small lemon drop watermelon in a large pot.  I have three plants in the pot, and they are cute as could be.  Tasty, too.  I'm in NC, and they are still going strong and setting fruit. We put a large tomato cage in the pot for them to grow up, and then we surrounded the pot with chicken wire to keep hungry critters out.

https://www.rareseeds.com/lemon-drop-watermelon

These look interesting - thank you for posting this. I want to add some edibles to my containers next year and will definitely consider it. I'm in zone 7a.  I'm still getting used to growing things in containers - it's fairly new to me. Other than the occasional flower that I would forget to water, I haven't done many. I did really good with flowers this year in comparison to past years.

[TechWife]

It's hot here & my spring & summer annuals are stressed and/or dying. Everything looks so tired! I pulled a lot out today and I'll watch over the next week or so to see how much more is ready to go.

Does anyone have any recs for fall annuals for me? I'm thinking of some ornamental kale or cabbage, but I don't know what else. I've never planted fall annuals before, so I'm open for some full sun ideas.

 

 

 

[cjzimmer1]

13 minutes ago, TechWife said:

It's hot here & my spring & summer annuals are stressed and/or dying. Everything looks so tired! I pulled a lot out today and I'll watch over the next week or so to see how much more is ready to go.

Does anyone have any recs for fall annuals for me? I'm thinking of some ornamental kale or cabbage, but I don't know what else. I've never planted fall annuals before, so I'm open for some full sun ideas.

 

 

 

mums

[TechWife]

33 minutes ago, cjzimmer1 said:

mums

I like mums & there are so many different ones. However, they are perennials here. I do plan to put some in containers, though. Does anyone have any suggestions for bedding plants?

[cjzimmer1]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

I like mums & there are so many different ones. However, they are perennials here. I do plan to put some in containers, though. Does anyone have any suggestions for bedding plants?

Sorry I wasn't thinking about you living in the south.  Here they are planted as annuals.  What kind of temp range are you dealing with for fall?  That might help me think of better suggestions.

[ikslo]

Having worked as a sales specialist in a Lowe’s garden center in PA for 6 years, I never want to see another pansy, mum, or ornamental cabbage ever again. You couldn’t pay me to put them in my yard. ymmv

[SHP]

About a month ago we received a Chip Drop and have covered it and been letting it sit until the heat broke. We tilled up the first area we are turning into a new garden, put down cardboard on part of it (we ran out) and moved 24+ wheel barrels of mulch. We are going to plant that area this week. (South Central garden)

We are also going to dig up our decorative grass. I offered it in the local garden club and people offered to help dog it up. Woohoo!! Once that is done we are going to mulch that entire area. (North and West garden).  Next year we will be buying and planting a couple of trees in that area.

Next up we will be tilling yet another area (Large East Garden) putting down cardboard and mulching. I have hundreds of tulip and daffodil bulbs, but I don't think I have enough. The online calculator said I would need 1,000 tulips just for this area. 

I have already transplanted the hostas.

I need to dig up my plants that cannot overwinter outside here.

[*****]

On 9/10/2022 at 10:32 AM, Faith-manor said:

In October, leaves will start dropping so I can add them to the beds, mix it up with my trowel,

I just had a gardening class from our local conservation district.  I will be doing what you are doing because our beds have only seen 1 season and were made last minute late in the spring.  Although my garden did very well (I have 1 indeterminate tomato plant that is 4'wide and 4'high which is a record for me), I don't see much 'life' in the soil. No bugs, and I only found a few worms because I am just now adding compost scraps to the corners. I need to add mulch because the soil doesn't hold much water as well as more manure and food scraps.  

But the lady giving the class said it was not a good idea to turn the soil over as it disrupts the biome and slows the decomposition down. She said it is best to put things on top and to rake it in lightly.  Just an FYI, but if others have done it for years, I am sure everyone has had different results.  Like I said, my garden is so new and it doesn't look like I have much of anything to disrupt, so I look forward to burying lots of scraps!  I already put some of last year's dried, mulched leaves in 1 end of the garden today. I am anxious to improve that soil and see more worms!

 

[TechWife]

6 hours ago, cjzimmer1 said:

Sorry I wasn't thinking about you living in the south.  Here they are planted as annuals.  What kind of temp range are you dealing with for fall?  That might help me think of better suggestions.

Understood! To me the greenery on the mums  is very boring March-September. It’s a long time for a plant with dull green leaves to take up space in my beds!

I’m in zone 7b. Temps are usually in the mid-80’s in Sept and drop by 10 degrees monthly, stabilizing in the 50’s Dec - Feb. Our first frost is usually in November. Most freezing days will be in January, so these plants don’t have to survive freeze. 

This means I’m looking for something that will look good until Novemberish. 

[cjzimmer1]

38 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Understood! To me the greenery on the mums  is very boring March-September. It’s a long time for a plant with dull green leaves to take up space in my beds!

I’m in zone 7b. Temps are usually in the mid-80’s in Sept and drop by 10 degrees monthly, stabilizing in the 50’s Dec - Feb. Our first frost is usually in November. Most freezing days will be in January, so these plants don’t have to survive freeze. 

This means I’m looking for something that will look good until Novemberish. 

80's is summer weather for me and 50's is early-mid spring for me so things I would plant for that kind of swing would be marigolds, petunias, snapdragons, lobelia, possibly dahlias (not sure if they could take 50's but for sure would look great for 60's), geraniums, dianthus, salvia, alyssum/lobularia.  All of these are things that are pretty hardy and can handle both the highs and lows you mentioned. The dianthus and snapdragons may act like a perennial for you but there's nothing saying you have to keep them.  You could always pull them out at whatever point you are tired of them.  

[TechWife]

1 minute ago, cjzimmer1 said:

80's is summer weather for me and 50's is early-mid spring for me so things I would plant for that kind of swing would be marigolds, petunias, snapdragons, lobelia, possibly dahlias (not sure if they could take 50's but for sure would look great for 60's), geraniums, dianthus, salvia, alyssum/lobularia.  All of these are things that are pretty hardy and can handle both the highs and lows you mentioned. The dianthus and snapdragons may act like a perennial for you but there's nothing saying you have to keep them.  You could always pull them out at whatever point you are tired of them.  

I’m trying to remember how long mydahlias lasted in 2021 - I think I pulled them in November, but had one volunteer this summer. I love snapdragons - my son & I used to make them “talk” to each other! I haven’t planted any in this yard yet. In our old yard they were annuals with the occasional volunteer. I do like volunteers - it’s fun to see what comes up & I can always move it if I need to.

We moved my part to get away from the lawn work. With a small lot, the work has been much more manageable. Our grass is established this year (3rd summer) and the foundation bushes are starting to fill out. It’s fun to tuck annuals in to fill the space between. I think my favorite tree is my limelight hydrangea. It has more blooms on it every year. 
 

[SHP]

On 9/12/2022 at 10:37 PM, ***** said:

But the lady giving the class said it was not a good idea to turn the soil over as it disrupts the biome and slows the decomposition down. She said it is best to put things on top and to rake it in lightly.  Just an FYI, but if others have done it for years, I am sure everyone has had different results.  Like I said, my garden is so new and it doesn't look like I have much of anything to disrupt, so I look forward to burying lots of scraps!  I already put some of last year's dried, mulched leaves in 1 end of the garden today. I am anxious to improve that soil and see more worms!

 

Did she mean for all or just for established gardens? I am curious about this. I till, gather all the weeds and grass that have been lossened, lay 1-2 layers of cardboard to block new weeds and add 2ft of compost and mulch. Unless I repeatedly sprayed I cannot see how to control the weeds. They will push through cardboard and compost/mulch. 

I have laid cardboard and compost mulch and spent the summer pulling weeds. 

I sprayed 5 times to control them in another area that I was preparing for fall. 

The only success I have had controlling them is tilling, removing weeds, cardboard, mulch. 

 

My lot was neglected for years. 

[*****]

16 minutes ago, SHP said:

Did she mean for all or just for established gardens? I am curious about this. I till, gather all the weeds and grass that have been lossened, lay 1-2 layers of cardboard to block new weeds and add 2ft of compost and mulch. Unless I repeatedly sprayed I cannot see how to control the weeds

Good question, it may take time, but if I can get an answer I will let you know on whether it is for all or established gardens. I heard in the spring if you turn your soil, you allow sun to reach seeds that may be under the soil. That could be adding to your problem.

I have used cardboard and woodchips with success for several years but sometimes I did not use cardboard. Like for the past 5 years, I lay down woodchips (we have a pole yard nearby, so we get as much as we want) between my perennials. As it breaks down, it adds good humus and  retains moisture better. If I get weeds, they pull up very easily, especially the grasses.

One thing I found years ago was when I brought in horse manure. I was weeding all.the.time.  I wonder if this is the source of your problem?  It was aged, but still, horses ate what was in the pasture and it gets passed through.  I only use rabbit, chicken or bagged steer manure and it has helped a great deal. This year, my veggie garden had rabbit and steer manure in it and compost from our yard and food waste. 

The only weed I got this year in my new garden is purslane.  (I think I read it grows in poor soil.)  But I am learning about edible weeds and purslane is very beneficial, it has a lot of vita C and other things. I added the leaves to my shakes and salads or ate it plain. It has a tart, lemony flavor. I would welcome that anytime. I went to my friend's garden and she has it all over her bare areas. And she didn't know you could eat it!   I guess you could see if your weeds are edible and change your mindset?  Another gal I know did that, is preserving them for the winter and now shares her wisdom. Hope you find a solution!

[SHP]

2 hours ago, ***** said:

Good question, it may take time, but if I can get an answer I will let you know on whether it is for all or established gardens. I heard in the spring if you turn your soil, you allow sun to reach seeds that may be under the soil. That could be adding to your problem.

I have used cardboard and woodchips with success for several years but sometimes I did not use cardboard. Like for the past 5 years, I lay down woodchips (we have a pole yard nearby, so we get as much as we want) between my perennials. As it breaks down, it adds good humus and  retains moisture better. If I get weeds, they pull up very easily, especially the grasses.

One thing I found years ago was when I brought in horse manure. I was weeding all.the.time.  I wonder if this is the source of your problem?  It was aged, but still, horses ate what was in the pasture and it gets passed through.  I only use rabbit, chicken or bagged steer manure and it has helped a great deal. This year, my veggie garden had rabbit and steer manure in it and compost from our yard and food waste. 

The only weed I got this year in my new garden is purslane.  (I think I read it grows in poor soil.)  But I am learning about edible weeds and purslane is very beneficial, it has a lot of vita C and other things. I added the leaves to my shakes and salads or ate it plain. It has a tart, lemony flavor. I would welcome that anytime. I went to my friend's garden and she has it all over her bare areas. And she didn't know you could eat it!   I guess you could see if your weeds are edible and change your mindset?  Another gal I know did that, is preserving them for the winter and now shares her wisdom. Hope you find a solution!

The compost I use is my own. The weeds in the beds are the same as in the areas I have not turned into beds. They are a result of what is at least 20 years of neglect plus a nearby neighbor who thinks things like Tree of Heaven (that is what I sprayed all year) are something else and it's his property and no matter the damage to neighbor's and city property no one can tell him what to do. A real peach that one.

The previous owner neglected everything until he met his wife and she moved in. The yard wasn't a yard until she moved in, it was a gravel/concrete driveway and detached garage. I haven't dug too deep because I suspect there is only a few inches of dirt over gravel/concrete remnants. Pure speculation based only on the other "improvements" the guy made that I have fixed. I will know when I prepare to plant the trees I want next year.

Most of the neighbors have given up and just mow frequently. 

I am fighting Morning glory, Trumpet vine, Tree of heaven/hell, Clover, Ragweed, and Half a dozen things I haven't identified yet but kill anyway. These all came with the house. 

Our yard isn't grass, it is a diverse landscape of demon plants. 

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

1 hour ago, SHP said:

I am fighting Morning glory, Trumpet vine, Tree of heaven/hell, Clover, Ragweed, and Half a dozen things I haven't identified yet but kill anyway. These all came with the house. 

Why do you want to kill clover?

[SHP]

4 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Why do you want to kill clover?

Are you referring to the current push to replace grass with clover to benefit bees? If so it is just replacing one monoculture with another that is only slightly better is not the best option. The best option is to have a landscape filled with diverse native plants.

As for killing clover to develop my yard into a landscape filled with a wide range of plants (both native and not), clover is much much harder to kill than grass so I have devoted this year to wiping it out. The grass, what little there is, is the easiest thing growing in my yard to kill. 

If I was rich I would have paid someone to do it and been done this year. As such, the landscaping budget is not without limits, so this is a multi year project. This summer I waged war on the hardest to kill weeds. This fall I am tilling, covering with cardboard and mulching heavily and planting what I can afford to buy and what free plants I can get in trade.

[*****]

SHP, ugh! That is frustrating, so sorry you are going through that. A friend of mine went through that when her next door neighbor moved away. They were in city limits and had a permit to grow (I forget the correct term) native plants (which included many invasive species). The problem was, they crept into my friend's yard and she got reprimanded/cited because she did not have a permit to grow native species. She paid to have her yard sprayed to get rid of weeds that the spray was supposed to kill and it didn't totally work.  She had to repeat the process with something different and was beyond frustrated.

So the Tree of Heaven is invasive (google) and Trumpet Vine and Morning Glory can take over (again google). Clover, I understand helps with nitrogen, so that is why Rosie is asking why you are killing it. Some people leave it. 

A few other suggestions: last spring at another garden in my area, the pathways had foot long grass. A guy came in and burned it all with a handheld torch. The grass is still gone, so that may be something to consider if you can?  Or bring in a professional weed sprayer?     I have also had luck with salt and vinegar. In your case, I would be generous. Salt is cheap- put down plenty and wet it with a hose. If it dies and you can still dig it up, try to get all you can and I would repeat. If you get snow and you are short on time, I would then cover it with cardboard for the winter. After the thaw, remove it, and try to remove all the dead matter.  I would repeat the salt and vinegar.  I would then put down weed block, the black material. I have used that and it works great for many years. Then you can put your fresh dirt and compost on top of that. 

But this may be a several year project it sounds like. Yeah, nice neighbor😒 With all the weed killer you are putting down, things you are planting will be affected for a few years I would think.  Can you put down weed block and cover it all with woodchips? Maybe for a few years, you may have to make it look nice with pots or raised beds until your soil has depleted the poisons. Also, I just found to help get rid of the Heaven tree...https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5410131.pdf

Sorry to say, as long as the neighbor keeps the tree, it will continue to be a battle for you.  Well, I see you just posted. I will read what you said. Just ignore what I wrote if you tried all this. Hope something can work!

[Rosie_0801]

4 minutes ago, SHP said:

Are you referring to the current push to replace grass with clover to benefit bees?

No, I was just wondering why someone would see clover as an enemy. I've been planting the stuff as a green cover in my garden beds.

Weeds indicate soil nutrition imbalances*, so rectifying them would likely be less effort for you. Clover, for example, indicates and rectifies nitrogen deficiency.

 

*Except for kikuyu, cooch and other invasive runner grasses which are plagues sent by the ghosts of gardeners past to wreak havoc on the souls of gardeners present.

[SHP]

1 minute ago, Rosie_0801 said:

No, I was just wondering why someone would see clover as an enemy. I've been planting the stuff as a green cover in my garden beds.

Weeds indicate soil nutrition imbalances*, so rectifying them would likely be less effort for you. Clover, for example, indicates and rectifies nitrogen deficiency.

 

*Except for kikuyu, cooch and other invasive runner grasses which are plagues sent by the ghosts of gardeners past to wreak havoc on the souls of gardeners present.

Several of the plants I listed are native here. Very agressive, but still native. If left unchecked the trumpet vine will take over. Ragweed is just evil. I don't want to make ideal conditions for those plants, I want them dead! 

I have no clue where the morning glory came from, but I have spent all summer pulling every sprout. At some point the seeds will stop germinating. I hope.

I don't think I have dealt with kikuyu or cooch and I want to keep it that way.

My goal is not to need ground cover. :) I have such a small lot it is possible. 

[Rosie_0801]

9 minutes ago, SHP said:

Several of the plants I listed are native here. Very agressive, but still native. If left unchecked the trumpet vine will take over. Ragweed is just evil. I don't want to make ideal conditions for those plants, I want them dead! 

I have no clue where the morning glory came from, but I have spent all summer pulling every sprout. At some point the seeds will stop germinating. I hope.

I don't think I have dealt with kikuyu or cooch and I want to keep it that way.

My goal is not to need ground cover. 🙂 I have such a small lot it is possible. 

I think the clover is trying to help solve your morning glory, ragweed and trumpet vine problem.

[SHP]

17 minutes ago, ***** said:

SHP, ugh! That is frustrating, so sorry you are going through that. A friend of mine went through that when her next door neighbor moved away. They were in city limits and had a permit to grow (I forget the correct term) native plants (which included many invasive species). The problem was, they crept into my friend's yard and she got reprimanded/cited because she did not have a permit to grow native species. She paid to have her yard sprayed to get rid of weeds that the spray was supposed to kill and it didn't totally work.  She had to repeat the process with something different and was beyond frustrated.

So the Tree of Heaven is invasive (google) and Trumpet Vine and Morning Glory can take over (again google). Clover, I understand helps with nitrogen, so that is why Rosie is asking why you are killing it. Some people leave it. 

A few other suggestions: last spring at another garden in my area, the pathways had foot long grass. A guy came in and burned it all with a handheld torch. The grass is still gone, so that may be something to consider if you can?  Or bring in a professional weed sprayer?     I have also had luck with salt and vinegar. In your case, I would be generous. Salt is cheap- put down plenty and wet it with a hose. If it dies and you can still dig it up, try to get all you can and I would repeat. If you get snow and you are short on time, I would then cover it with cardboard for the winter. After the thaw, remove it, and try to remove all the dead matter.  I would repeat the salt and vinegar.  I would then put down weed block, the black material. I have used that and it works great for many years. Then you can put your fresh dirt and compost on top of that. 

But this may be a several year project it sounds like. Yeah, nice neighbor😒 With all the weed killer you are putting down, things you are planting will be affected for a few years I would think.  Can you put down weed block and cover it all with woodchips? Maybe for a few years, you may have to make it look nice with pots or raised beds until your soil has depleted the poisons. Also, I just found to help get rid of the Heaven tree...https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5410131.pdf

Sorry to say, as long as the neighbor keeps the tree, it will continue to be a battle for you.  Well, I see you just posted. I will read what you said. Just ignore what I wrote if you tried all this. Hope something can work!

I have debated letting one of the tree of heaven grow and using Tordon (I think). And yeah, nothing will grow for a long while. Salting the earth is on the table but I am not there yet. I have debated salting the neighbors yard though. What kills me about the neighbor with the tree is that even with documented damage to the sewer line (and resulting damages to houses further down) that the city hasn't gone after him and forced removal or for him to pay to cover the damages. 

I have no interest in weedblock, simply because I would have to pull it up when dividing plants. 

I would *love* to torch things. I am pretty sure the local fire department would not approve. 

 

 

[SHP]

4 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I think the clover is trying to help solve your morning glory, ragweed and trumpet vine problem.

The morning glory is strangling it in the area I haven't tackled. The morning glory strangles everything. I am waiting for it to go after the car.

Last week my MIL try to give my husband a morning glory his father loves. I may have threatened divorce. 

In the spring she tried to give him honeysuckle! *shudder* 

[*****]

1 minute ago, SHP said:

What kills me about the neighbor with the tree is that even with documented damage to the sewer line (and resulting damages to houses further down) that the city hasn't gone after him and forced removal or for him to pay to cover the damages. 

Yeah, so sad, that is insane that they don't get after him!  

 

2 minutes ago, SHP said:

I have no interest in weedblock, simply because I would have to pull it up when dividing plants. 

Maybe you need to make your soil deeper over the weed block. I divide my perennials plenty, especially the Shasta Daisies and I don't hit the weed block. That area as a flower bed has been maintained about 25 years. And we had to haul in plenty of dirt and compost in over the years to get it to where it is now. And now I use woodchips as a mulch on top. Yes, I am getting some grasses, and you will get weeds. But with the woodchips, the grass roots pull out so easily.

 

8 minutes ago, SHP said:

I would *love* to torch things. I am pretty sure the local fire department would not approve. 

Ha, yea.  But it was a small torch and used in the spring when things were very green...!

[Rosie_0801]

@SHP, what are you doing to raise the nitrogen levels in your soil?

[SHP]

2 minutes ago, ***** said:

 

Maybe you need to make your soil deeper over the weed block. I divide my perennials plenty, especially the Shasta Daisies and I don't hit the weed block. That area as a flower bed has been maintained about 25 years. And we had to haul in plenty of dirt and compost in over the years to get it to where it is now. And now I use woodchips as a mulch on top. Yes, I am getting some grasses, and you will get weeds. But with the woodchips, the grass roots pull out so easily.

 

In the areas that are the worst it isn't possible to add more unless I put in retaining walls in 3 neighbors yard. I am pushing it with the mulch. This entire block needs help. 

[SHP]

21 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

@SHP, what are you doing to raise the nitrogen levels in your soil?

Going beyond that. I am working with a master gardener in training and the county extension office. ETA: To fix the soil and ensure no toxins are an issue and if they are that it is handled appropriately. Waiting on test results from the area that has me most concerned as problematic.

Some lots near have soil that is, let's leave it at unsafe to grow vegetables*. The previous owner just dumping dirt over the concrete driveway actually helps in that regard. We don't have decades of people being people and just pouring whatever on the ground.

*Though not knowing about this and people growing and eating anyway will probably launch the zombie apocalypse. Hypothesis based on [waves at everything]

Edited September 15, 2022 by SHP

[Rosie_0801]

4 minutes ago, SHP said:

Going beyond that. I am working with a master gardener in training and the county extension office.

I think it strange that neither the master gardener nor the county extension office have pointed out that all the weeds that are bothering you most indicate low levels of nitrogen in the soil and that rectifying that will solve most of the weed problem. Maybe what you really need is a few bags of blood and bone or chook manure. Fresh chook manure should burn the evilities.

I am sad to hear the soil is unsafe in your area. I was looking at purchasing property about an hour south of where I am now, but my aunt warned me away from it because that area is all contaminated with *lead.* 🤮 (Which may mean those living there will survive the zombie apocalypse, since if they can survive that, they can probably survive zombies too.)

[Faith-manor]

5 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I think it strange that neither the master gardener nor the county extension office have pointed out that all the weeds that are bothering you most indicate low levels of nitrogen in the soil and that rectifying that will solve most of the weed problem. Maybe what you really need is a few bags of blood and bone or chook manure. Fresh chook manure should burn the evilities.

I am sad to hear the soil is unsafe in your area. I was looking at purchasing property about an hour south of where I am now, but my aunt warned me away from it because that area is all contaminated with *lead.* 🤮 (Which may mean those living there will survive the zombie apocalypse, since if they can survive that, they can probably survive zombies too.)

That lead issue is a big thing in Genesee County here. It isn't safe to drink the water nor to irrigate food plants/crops with it or even given it to your chickens. The soil is contaminated, and in some areas children really shouldn't play outside. There is a no contact warning right now for the Flint River because of chemical spills. People in that county are so screwed. Then there are all the residents of Midland County who cannot safely garden or grow crops because DOW dumped dioxin by the tonnage and refuses to clean it up. In the Keeweenaw Peninsula, there are many many acres of land contaminated from copper and uranium mining, lots of cancer.

I agree. The survivors are the ones who might actually make it through the alien invasion, zombies, or asteroid strike.

I need to go finalize my seed order while seeds can still be had.

[SHP]

8 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I think it strange that neither the master gardener nor the county extension office have pointed out that all the weeds that are bothering you most indicate low levels of nitrogen in the soil and that rectifying that will solve most of the weed problem. Maybe what you really need is a few bags of blood and bone or chook manure. Fresh chook manure should burn the evilities.

I am sad to hear the soil is unsafe in your area. I was looking at purchasing property about an hour south of where I am now, but my aunt warned me away from it because that area is all contaminated with *lead.* 🤮 (Which may mean those living there will survive the zombie apocalypse, since if they can survive that, they can probably survive zombies too.)

They are waiting for the more extensive test results before they assist with fixing the soil. 

 

I really think middle of the night is not the best time for me to try explain things and I did a poor job. 

I may trying to sketch up a picture of where things are. The clover was not uniform in the yard, nor is the morning glory. It is weird. 

[*****]

SHP-I'm glad you're working with a master gardener because that was the  next thing I was going to suggest. 

3 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

That lead issue is a big thing in Genesee County here.

So how is Saginaw County?  I lived there for a year and remember the sugar beet and soy fields at the time.  I hope they are being more careful there.  Yes, it will take a great deal of time to clean up in Genesee, that is so rough!

[Faith-manor]

23 minutes ago, ***** said:

SHP-I'm glad you're working with a master gardener because that was the  next thing I was going to suggest. 

So how is Saginaw County?  I lived there for a year and remember the sugar beet and soy fields at the time.  I hope they are being more careful there.  Yes, it will take a great deal of time to clean up in Genesee, that is so rough!

It isn't as bad. It also isn't healthy, just not  as bad mostly because when the car companies and their subsidiaries were told to clean up or else, they did the bare minimum, shuttered the factories, and expanded plants in places where they weren't being told to clean up. But, there is a ton of bad fertilizer run off, and it pollutes the wells in the rural communities/isn't properly filtered out of the city water supplies so it is not only awful for people, it is making its way into the Great Lakes and we are seeing some sad and scary ecological effects from it. The farmers know they are poisoning the water. The AG department knows it. No one takes action.

[*****]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

it is making its way into the Great Lakes and we are seeing some sad and scary ecological effects from it. The farmers know they are poisoning the water. The AG department knows it. No one takes action.

That is so sad!  

[Serenade]

Hurray!  I figured out how to post pictures,  so here is a picture of the mini yellow watermelons I am growing. The chicken wire is to keep critters out, but there is a tomato cage inside for the watermelon plants to grow up.

I also thought I'd share a picture of these snacking peppers I'm growing in a barrel. The barrel has two red pepper plants and 1 orange.  They take a while to produce, but once they get going they are very prolific.  Last year I picked all the green ones right before frost, and they still turned color indoors after being picked. I got the seeds from Renee's -- the orange ones are Yummy Belles and the red ones are Pizza My Heart.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Serenade

[Serenade]

On 9/4/2022 at 4:33 PM, Lady Florida. said:

Thanks. I'll look into that. I'm in Zone 9b so now would be the time to plant melons.

 

On 9/12/2022 at 2:41 PM, TechWife said:

These look interesting - thank you for posting this. I want to add some edibles to my containers next year and will definitely consider it. I'm in zone 7a.  I'm still getting used to growing things in containers - it's fairly new to me. Other than the occasional flower that I would forget to water, I haven't done many. I did really good with flowers this year in comparison to past years.

I'm quoting you both here because I couldn't figure out how to tag you to see the picture of the yellow watermelon plant above.

[prairiewindmomma]

Our farm store finally had peat moss in stock. I bought two bales—am tilling in one today for my fall plantings, and am saving one for spring. I also got a bunch of seeds (2023 year). 
 

I mention this in case anyone had a hard time finding supplies several months ago. I am hoping things are easier next spring but am planning that they won’t be so I can be pleasantly surprised if they are.

[Faith-manor]

Another update: 17 quarts of dehydrated apples later, and I am so ready to be done. There are no good apples left on the tree that I can reach from the step ladder that Mark is comfortable letting me use. Due to my bad ankle, he doesn't like for me to get too far off the ground because it had been known to spasm and collapse without notice (left ankle, not my driving side). So I said that IF he found time to get the tall ladder out and could find a way to safely lean it against the trunk inside the tree without causing damage AND he could find time to climb it and get the top apples down, then I would process them. I am hoping his work schedule is such that he doesn't make it. However, I took a quart of apple chips to a couple of elderly ladies in town. I cut a piece of cute fabric from my scrap bag using linking sheers, laid it over the mouth of the jar, put the lid and ring on, and tied a bow around it. Man, they acted like this was the best thing they have ever received! I think it is because they are lonely, however, I will say these apples are super, duper tasty and I did sprinkle them with a little bit of cinnamon sugar after soaking them in lemon juice water. So they are yummy, and that got me to thinking that there are several lonely widows and widowers in town that might like to have some. The thing is, I don't want to part with a lot of canning jars. So I think I need to switch to cellophane bags, but that makes me twitch because I know they will end up in the landfill. Does anyone know if apple chips will keep if I were to use a stapler and make wax paper bags, and then insert the bags into a cloth bag? I have so many unused fat quarters of quilt fabric that I thought I could make a cute gift bag and tie with fabric ribbon left over from other projects. I do have silica gel packs so I could put one inside each wax paper bag.

I am back now to dehydrating cherry tomatoes. My largest cherry tomato plant seems to have suddenly entered the marathon with the apple tree. It can never win that race, but I give it props for giving its personal best regardless! 😂  I am not watering it anymore because I really am ready for it to die off so I can pull plants and get compost and mulch in the beds for winter. LOL, don't talk to me about the tomatillos. They are blooming again!!! 😱 Apparently they have zero idea that though Michigan is having a lovely autumn, Old Man Winter will kick in with just about no notice and kick its behind. I think I am going to have to pull the plants even with baby tomatillos on them because there isn't enough time left for them to grow and ripen. We will have our first frosts in a couple of weeks!

Total, there are about 56 pints of green beans on the shelves, 17 quarts of dried apples, 3 quarts and counting of dried cherry tomatoes, 56 quarts of Roma tomatoes, on my pantry shelves, and 20 heads of broccoli in the freezer. I did not grow all of the romas, green beans, nor the broccoli (eight heads of broccoli are mine). I and to buy some Romas in order to have enough to fill out the last load of the canned with the stragglers I had left before those plants stopped producing, the green beans are from my mom's garden, and the other 12 heads of broccoli from my favorite farm store/stand.

My seeds are ordered to next year, and we are doubling food production here and at Shangri La in Alabama. We have the fruit trees and plants on order from a local nursery there, and they are supposed to be ready for dd and I to pick up on Oct. 15. 4 raspberry canes/plants, two peach trees, one self pollinating nectarine, two more blueberry plants, and some oregano plants for a front bed that needs to have an old set of bushes ripped out. Mark is going to build three raised beds for her in October when he is visiting.

I want to learn to grow Brussels sprouts. We do love them roasted, and I have been able to successfully use frozen sprouts by letting them thaw, removing the leave and taking the core out since it holds so much moisture, and then putting down really well with cheese cloth. They do crisp up. So now I want to see if I can grow them.

[SHP]

On 9/10/2022 at 12:32 PM, Faith-manor said:

Update:

I entitle this episode: "When Apple Trees Attack"

 

 

Dang! 

 

I bought non fruit trees and a bunch of Tulip bulbs. Then it got hot and I don't wanna go outside. 

[KungFuPanda]

It was getting so late that I was beginning to think my Chicago figs would never ripen. It’s finally happening! I didn’t get many last year because of the groundhog, but the castor bean seems to be keeping him away so these figs are all mine. 
 

I’m going to need to prune the tree this year and I’m terrified. 
 

 

[Faith-manor]

43 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

It was getting so late that I was beginning to think my Chicago figs would never ripen. It’s finally happening! I didn’t get many last year because of the groundhog, but the castor bean seems to be keeping him away so these figs are all mine. 
 

I’m going to need to prune the tree this year and I’m terrified. 
 

 

They look beautiful!

[Melissa in Australia]

Faith-manor  couldn't you just shove the dried apples into a regular paper bag . That is what I have done if I am giving people a few.

[Faith-manor]

16 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Faith-manor  couldn't you just shove the dried apples into a regular paper bag . That is what I have done if I am giving people a few.

I could. I was trying to think of ways to kind of make the gift pretty, and was also wondering if a paper bag would allow them to go soft quickly. I was thinking maybe the wax from beeswax paper sheets might be more protective. But people could just transfer them to a sealed container at home. I was feeling festive and trying to go the extra mile. Neighbor relations in town, in the neighborhood have pretty well been destroyed due to covid because 3/4 of the town kept partying like nothing was happening, and 1/4 of the town (including us) were really making an effort, and everyone took up sides. Nothing has ever been the same. Diplomacy through apples! 😀 But, I can just give them away in a paper bag, you are right.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Faith-manor

[Rosie_0801]

My curry leaf tree arrived in the mail this morning! I'm so excited!!

[Ausmumof3]

I guess it’s October now anyway here, but so much lettuce and leafy greens! A Sulfur crest came and dug up a lot one day but it’s bounced back really quickly. Of course prices are stabilising in the shops as well but it’s nice to be able to go and pick fresh. 

[KungFuPanda]

I think this is the end of the line for me. I have some late season beans and lettuces started and I’m trying to get another flat of parsley to germinate. I’m over the work. I may just skip the cabbages and call it a year. 

[prairiewindmomma]

16 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

My curry leaf tree arrived in the mail this morning! I'm so excited!!

Let me know how growing goes on this one. We have debated getting one….it’s supposedly US grow zones 9-11, and we fit into that. 

[prairiewindmomma]

I’m going to start an October thread as we have a lot of southern hemisphere boardies who are just getting going….

[Rosie_0801]

27 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Let me know how growing goes on this one. We have debated getting one….it’s supposedly US grow zones 9-11, and we fit into that. 

I can tell you right now, YOU WANT ONE!