And another mass shooting - Chattanooga, TN

[ktgrok]

This is what the Mayor said in the press conference after 14 people were shot, 3 people are dead. 

And finally, I am a gun owner. I’ve been an avid hunter and marksman all my life—and so I want to say this clearly, I fully support responsible gun ownership, but Congress needs to do their jobs and pass common sense regulations that will help stop this nonsense. That doesn’t mean taking guns away from responsible gun owners, but it does mean mandatory background checks and prohibiting high-capacity magazines that allow shooters to hurt dozens of people without having to so much as reload. In mass shootings between 2009 and 2020, high-capacity magazines led to 5x as many people shot per mass shooting. This stuff is just common sense. And it’s a simple way we can keep people safe.

I'm tired of standing in front of you talking about guns and bodies. Chattanooga will not tolerate this in our community. 

https://newschannel9.com/news/local/heavy-police-presence-in-downtown-chattanooga-sunday-morning-mass-shooting-crime-marys-bar-grill-mccallie-lyerly-gun-violence

[Corraleno]

And another in Philadelphia — 3 dead, 11 wounded

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/05/us/philadelphia-south-street-shooting/index.html

 

[Corraleno]

AZ mall shooting yesterday: 14 year old girl killed and 8 others injured, two critically

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/overnight-phoenix-shooting-leaves-multiple-victims-injured

[DawnM]

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TexasProud]

Yes, that sounds similar to a letter I sent to my governor, senator, etc. I explained that I was a gun owner who supported common sense regulations like background checks, waiting periods, red flag laws and severe restrictions on certain types of guns. 

Edited June 5, 2022 by TexasProud

[TravelingChris]

21 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yes, that sounds similar to a letter a sent to my governor, senator, etc. I explained that I was a gun owner who supported common sense regulations like background checks, waiting periods, red flag laws and severe restrictions on certain types of guns. 

We have background checks already and have had them for many years

[TexasProud]

2 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

We have background checks already and have had them for many years

Yeah, they have too many holes. Plus, having the waiting period would enable a more serious background check. Also databases are a mess, those need to be fixed. So yeah, we have them, but they are not meaningful enough.

[TravelingChris]

Just now, TexasProud said:

Yeah, they have too many holes. Plus, having the waiting period would enable a more serious background check. Also databases are a mess, those need to be fixed. So yeah, we have them, but they are not meaningful enough.

What specifically do you want to add to the background check?

[KSera]

1 minute ago, TravelingChris said:

What specifically do you want to add to the background check?

It doesn't appear to me that background checks are required at every point of sale or for permit to purchase, if we're talking specifically about Tennessee. Plus, "legislators in Tennessee have recently weakened the state’s policies, eliminating the carry permitting requirement, allowing nearly anyone in the state to carry loaded firearms in public, concealed or open, without a background check, permit, or safety training." (https://everytownresearch.org/rankings/state/tennessee/)

[TexasProud]

8 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

What specifically do you want to add to the background check?

I am talking about Texas, not Tennessee.  But here is one HUGE loophole:

• Only gun dealers with a Federal Firearms License are required to do a background check before selling a gun in Texas, not private sellers.  Texas has NO state requirement for more comprehensive background checks when purchasing a firearm. Therefore, persons prohibited from owning firearms can easily obtain a gun - on the internet, at a gun show, even from a private seller out of the trunk of a car.

[KSera]

The Everytown website makes it easy to quickly look at gun laws in any state and/or to look at specific gun laws in each state.

https://everytownresearch.org/

Here's a good page about background checks specifically: https://everytownresearch.org/report/update-background-check-laws/

93 percent of American voters support requiring background checks on all gun sales, including 89 percent of Republicans and 89 percent of gun owners.

 

[Heartstrings]

3 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

What specifically do you want to add to the background check?

I’d love for their to be 2 tiers to the background checks.   There should be one for things that need more investigation.  There should be a way for police and mental health officials to flag someone as needing a more thorough check.  That’s where arrests for example, or a therapist concerned about suicide, maybe known gang affiliations etc.    Not as automatic no, but just a trigger for a more in depth look, maybe an escalation from a computer to a human, maybe at the local sheriffs office.  An automatic no would be denying due process and I’m not calling for that, but I think this could be sort of a red flag/background check hybrid.   
 

The scope of background checks right now is too limited.  It’s mostly just felony convictions or involuntary mental health commitments. 
 

I’d like to see the loopholes closed as well. Buying a gun at a gun show or a yard sale or online forum doesn’t require a background check, neither does inheriting one. My family has situations where violent convicted felons could stand to inherit firearms and no one would know.  
 

 

[TravelingChris]

23 minutes ago, KSera said:

It doesn't appear to me that background checks are required at every point of sale or for permit to purchase, if we're talking specifically about Tennessee. Plus, "legislators in Tennessee have recently weakened the state’s policies, eliminating the carry permitting requirement, allowing nearly anyone in the state to carry loaded firearms in public, concealed or open, without a background check, permit, or safety training." (https://everytownresearch.org/rankings/state/tennessee/)

We ar3e talking about background checks for purchase, not concealed carry.  None of the killers had conclealed carry permits or tried to get them.  Ysually either do not care who sees  them --- Ramos or they have a bag/

[KSera]

5 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

We ar3e talking about background checks for purchase, not concealed carry.  None of the killers had conclealed carry permits or tried to get them.  Ysually either do not care who sees  them --- Ramos or they have a bag/

Multiple things are being talked about at the same time. Background checks are not required for every purchase in Tennessee. But further, and separately (that's why I said "Plus"), almost anyone can carry around a loaded firearm in Tennessee whether they know how to use it, have passed any background checks, have any red flags, or not. That is totally wacked.

I feel like we're playing a shell game or whack a mole game to avoid talking about the actual issue which is that guns are much too easy for anyone to get and the reason for that is that there are people who don't want to do anything that would help keep people who shouldn't have them from having them.

Edited June 5, 2022 by KSera

[TravelingChris]

13 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I’d love for their to be 2 tiers to the background checks.   There should be one for things that need more investigation.  There should be a way for police and mental health officials to flag someone as needing a more thorough check.  That’s where arrests for example, or a therapist concerned about suicide, maybe known gang affiliations etc.    Not as automatic no, but just a trigger for a more in depth look, maybe an escalation from a computer to a human, maybe at the local sheriffs office.  An automatic no would be denying due process and I’m not calling for that, but I think this could be sort of a red flag/background check hybrid.   
 

The scope of background checks right now is too limited.  It’s mostly just felony convictions or involuntary mental health commitments. 
 

I’d like to see the loopholes closed as well. Buying a gun at a gun show or a yard sale or online forum doesn’t require a background check, neither does inheriting one. My family has situations where violent convicted felons could stand to inherit firearms and no one would know.  
 

 

As it is, the whole system is on the federal level right now.  I am not sure how practical it is to notify the gun sector of the federal agency which is right now doing the checks of local. non reportable incidents by all sorts of actors like police, mental health, etc.  After all, I know that several people had called the FBI about the Parkland shooter before it happened.  I know several people tried to stop the Nashville bomber and nothing was dome/  And we can go on and on with examples where people did try to warn FBI or locals and nothing was done.

[TravelingChris]

Just now, KSera said:

Multiple things are being talked about at the same time. Background checks are not required for every purchase in Tennessee. But further, and separately, almost anyone can carry around a loaded firearm in Tennessee whether they know how to use it, have passed any background checks, have any red flags, or not. That is totally wacked.

I feel like we're playing a shell game or whack a mole game to avoid talking about the actual issue which is that guns are much too easy for anyone to get and the reason for that is that there are people who don't want to do anything that would help keep people who shouldn't have them from having them.

For almost all purchases- just some individual sale ones aren't included.

[ktgrok]

48 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

We have background checks already and have had them for many years

Not for private sales. I went to a gun show here in Orlando several years ago (they have them every few months at the county fairgrounds) because DH was getting his CC permit, and they have a package deal there were you can do the safety class, get fingerprinted, etc for one price. So I wandered around and there were literally people outside who had signs on their back and front, made of cardboard, that said "gun for sale" with a price. So that people could buy and sell individual guns, bypassing the booths run by local gun stores. 

People sell and buy guns every day, legally, with no background check required. We should have have dealer services where a private person looking to sell would meet their buyer at the prescribed place and fill out paperwork, do the background check, etc. 

[KSera]

19 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Not for private sales. I went to a gun show here in Orlando several years ago (they have them every few months at the county fairgrounds) because DH was getting his CC permit, and they have a package deal there were you can do the safety class, get fingerprinted, etc for one price. So I wandered around and there were literally people outside who had signs on their back and front, made of cardboard, that said "gun for sale" with a price. So that people could buy and sell individual guns, bypassing the booths run by local gun stores. 

People sell and buy guns every day, legally, with no background check required. We should have have dealer services where a private person looking to sell would meet their buyer at the prescribed place and fill out paperwork, do the background check, etc. 

I was just looking to see if I could find any statistics about the number of gun sales that are private vs through licensed dealers, and my search turned up all kinds of things advertising private gun sales, including entire forums for Tennessee gun owners to buy, sell and trade weapons privately. I'm sure other states have those as well. If people want to be part of the solution and not part of the problem, they need to not be participating in that stuff.

[Heartstrings]

39 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

As it is, the whole system is on the federal level right now.  I am not sure how practical it is to notify the gun sector of the federal agency which is right now doing the checks of local. non reportable incidents by all sorts of actors like police, mental health, etc.  After all, I know that several people had called the FBI about the Parkland shooter before it happened.  I know several people tried to stop the Nashville bomber and nothing was dome/  And we can go on and on with examples where people did try to warn FBI or locals and nothing was done.

That could be changed.  Maybe that’s even a good reason for that part to be changed.  

[TechWife]

34 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

As it is, the whole system is on the federal level right now.  I am not sure how practical it is to notify the gun sector of the federal agency which is right now doing the checks of local. non reportable incidents by all sorts of actors like police, mental health, etc.  After all, I know that several people had called the FBI about the Parkland shooter before it happened.  I know several people tried to stop the Nashville bomber and nothing was dome/  And we can go on and on with examples where people did try to warn FBI or locals and nothing was done.

Well, when you know better, you do better. It is entirely possible that the data collection system as we know it will be replaced with something entirely different that will be more accurate and more efficient. It’s entirely possible that if the people in the US demand better responses from various law enforcement agencies, that things will actually improve. Things do change, often for the better. I choose to play the long game where my safety is concerned. 

33 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

For almost all purchases- just some individual sale ones aren't included.

A loophole is a loophole.

[Heartstrings]

5 minutes ago, KSera said:

I was just looking to see if I could find any statistics about the number of gun sales that are private vs through licensed dealers, and my search turned up all kinds of things advertising private gun sales, including entire forums for Tennessee gun owners to buy, sell and trade weapons privately. I'm sure other states have those as well. If people want to be part of the solution and not part of the problem, they need to not be participating in that stuff.

There are a large number of people who don’t care about a solution.   The status quo serves them fine.  They think they’ll be the good guy with a gun and think their kids school is safe. 

[ktgrok]

5 minutes ago, KSera said:

I was just looking to see if I could find any statistics about the number of gun sales that are private vs through licensed dealers, and my search turned up all kinds of things advertising private gun sales, including entire forums for Tennessee gun owners to buy, sell and trade weapons privately. I'm sure other states have those as well. If people want to be part of the solution and not part of the problem, they need to not be participating in that stuff.

Yup. 

• Each year, there are more than 100,000 ads on Armslist offering firearms for sale in Florida where no background check is legally required. In fact, Florida has the second highest number of total ads that did not require a background check across the country.⁶https://www.everytown.org/report/background-checks-and-florida/

[TexasProud]

44 minutes ago, KSera said:

 

I feel like we're playing a shell game or whack a mole game to avoid talking about the actual issue which is that guns are much too easy for anyone to get and the reason for that is that there are people who don't want to do anything that would help keep people who shouldn't have them from having them.

I don't understand. The OP posted something from a mayor that wants things to change. There are many, many, many gun owners who are now talking about passing gun legislation. How is that whack a mole??? We are trying to change things. 

[KSera]

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

I don't understand. The OP posted something from a mayor that wants things to change. There are many, many, many gun owners who are now talking about passing gun legislation. How is that whack a mole??? We are trying to change things. 

I didn't mean from the OP and certainly not you, I was talking about frustration with this particular conversation where every time one thing is brought up and addressed, gun owners who don't want to do anything to help change things switch to a different "but" or "what about" because they just really don't want to do one extra thing or give one thing up, even if it means more living children.

[TravelingChris]

23 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Well, when you know better, you do better. It is entirely possible that the data collection system as we know it will be replaced with something entirely different that will be more accurate and more efficient. It’s entirely possible that if the people in the US demand better responses from various law enforcement agencies, that things will actually improve. Things do change, often for the better. I choose to play the long game where my safety is concerned. 

A loophole is a loophole.

I couldn't care less if gun sales at shows had background checks.  We don't go to those but again, I point you to how all those illegally gotten guns n Chicago are from straw buyers or thefts.

As to more stringent background checks, I have no issues with a few changes to the law to make it better.  But one thing I don't want to do is the whole idiotic lump everyone in a gigantic group and decide that anyone who sees a psychiatrist, for example, should not own a gun.  Cause there are a lot of reasons for going to a psychiatrist.  My psychiatrist prescribes my sleeping med (an old anti-depressant used in lower doses for sleep), an allergy pill for my anxiety to take as needed, and my ADHD med----- none of which makes me likely to go shoot up anything.

And even in the categories of mental illness-like paranoid schizophrenia, that does have some people acting violently, by far, most will not and most are much more likely to be victims rather than perpetrators.

[Kanin]

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

Also databases are a mess, those need to be fixed.

I'm sure this is true. Databases for most big organizations are a mess! It's a ton of work to fix, so people just keep patching issues when they come up. But you're right, it needs to be done.

[KSera]

18 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I couldn't care less if gun sales at shows had background checks.  We don't go to those but again, I point you to how all those illegally gotten guns n Chicago are from straw buyers or thefts.

From today's Christianity Today:

Quote

In short, I think you should leave Chicago’s name out of your mouth until you understand the forces that shape this city.

We are not your rhetorical whipping boy, trotted out for another session of mockery that serves your political ends. We are not your minstrel show, played on repeat on your news channels as a way to reinforce tropes about the inherent dangerousness of Black people. We see what you are doing and name it for what it is: racism. We know that you do not actually care about the Black lives lost to gun violence here. If you did, you wouldn’t use dead Black boys and girls as a political tool. You would see their tragic deaths as a catalyst for action.

Chicago is a border colony. Illinois is a gun-restrictive state. Studies have shown that nearly 60 percent of guns connected to crimes in Chicago arrive through Republican states. The loose privileges of others have a direct, negative, and destructive effect on us. And while there is no excuse for the murder rate in Chicago, there is also no excuse for decades of divestment and inferior schools.

White Churches, It’s Time to Go Pro-Life on Guns

[Heartstrings]

22 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I couldn't care less if gun sales at shows had background checks.  We don't go to those but again, I point you to how all those illegally gotten guns n Chicago are from straw buyers or thefts.

As to more stringent background checks, I have no issues with a few changes to the law to make it better.  But one thing I don't want to do is the whole idiotic lump everyone in a gigantic group and decide that anyone who sees a psychiatrist, for example, should not own a gun.  Cause there are a lot of reasons for going to a psychiatrist.  My psychiatrist prescribes my sleeping med (an old anti-depressant used in lower doses for sleep), an allergy pill for my anxiety to take as needed, and my ADHD med----- none of which makes me likely to go shoot up anything.

And even in the categories of mental illness-like paranoid schizophrenia, that does have some people acting violently, by far, most will not and most are much more likely to be victims rather than perpetrators.

I don’t think anyone is calling for that.  I’d just like for there to be a mechanism for a therapist to flag a person as a risk for gun buying.  Could be for suicide, or because threats are made in couples counseling.   While I’m writing laws I’ll go ahead and put a limit on it where the flag must be reviewed by that therapist monthly or every 6 months.  
 

Maybe battered woman’s shelters could do the same for women that go through their shelters.  
 

Again, not a permanent removal of gun rights for that person, just higher scrutiny.  

[Tanaqui]

2 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

What specifically do you want to add to the background check?

No more exemptions. There are currently lots of little loopholes that allow you to get a gun with no background check.

[Tanaqui]

Quote

I couldn't care less if gun sales at shows had background checks.  We don't go to those but again, I point you to how all those illegally gotten guns n Chicago are from straw buyers or thefts.

 

We shouldn't need to explain to you that if there people aren't buying legal guns, there are less guns to steal. Nor should we have to explain to you that if everybody locked their weapons up - and their ammunition! - it'd be harder to steal those guns in the first place. Better regulations can reduce the number of illegal guns on the streets.

It's not like marijuana or alcohol. You can't just grow guns in your backyard or brew them up in your bathtub.

[ktgrok]

29 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I couldn't care less if gun sales at shows had background checks.  We don't go to those but again, I point you to how all those illegally gotten guns n Chicago are from straw buyers or thefts.

 

I'm honestly not sure why you keep posting in these thread. We get it it, you don't see a reason to change anything, and even if you did, you don't think it's possible to change anything anyway. So, why even discuss it? Let those of us who DO see both a reason and a possibility of change hash it out instead of just telling everyone why none of it matters over and over and over. 

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

I couldn't care less if gun sales at shows had background checks.  We don't go to those but again, I point you to how all those illegally gotten guns n Chicago are from straw buyers or thefts.

As to more stringent background checks, I have no issues with a few changes to the law to make it better.  But one thing I don't want to do is the whole idiotic lump everyone in a gigantic group and decide that anyone who sees a psychiatrist, for example, should not own a gun.  Cause there are a lot of reasons for going to a psychiatrist.  My psychiatrist prescribes my sleeping med (an old anti-depressant used in lower doses for sleep), an allergy pill for my anxiety to take as needed, and my ADHD med----- none of which makes me likely to go shoot up anything.

And even in the categories of mental illness-like paranoid schizophrenia, that does have some people acting violently, by far, most will not and most are much more likely to be victims rather than perpetrators.

No one is talking about any blanket rules  like that. No one. 
 

 

[TechWife]

2 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

We ar3e talking about background checks for purchase, not concealed carry.  None of the killers had conclealed carry permits or tried to get them.  Ysually either do not care who sees  them --- Ramos or they have a bag/

Do you realize that there is more at stake than trying to stop the mass shootings? Those often make the news. People also want to stop children that are involved in gun accidents due to a gun owner’s stupidity. Domestic violence. Armed robbery. The officer that is killed at a traffic stop. The citizen that is killed because the police had to make a snap judgement that turned out to be wrong. Other crimes in progress. It’s about the mass shootings, but it’s also about so much more. 
Gunshot wounds are now the number one cause of death in those under 18. We want to change that. 

[KidsHappen]

My family wanted to go to the aquarium this morning but I nixed the idea because I wasn't up to walking that much yet. I am glad that it worked out that way. We were in Orlando about two years ago (maybe three?) when they had that nightclub shooting and there was a shooting in Nashville that same night which is close to where we live.

[TravelingChris]

1 hour ago, Heartstrings said:

I don’t think anyone is calling for that.  I’d just like for there to be a mechanism for a therapist to flag a person as a risk for gun buying.  Could be for suicide, or because threats are made in couples counseling.   While I’m writing laws I’ll go ahead and put a limit on it where the flag must be reviewed by that therapist monthly or every 6 months.  
 

Maybe battered woman’s shelters could do the same for women that go through their shelters.  
 

Again, not a permanent removal of gun rights for that person, just higher scrutiny.  

BTW, even misdemeanor domestic abuse gets you on the no gun law.

[TravelingChris]

42 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Do you realize that there is more at stake than trying to stop the mass shootings? Those often make the news. People also want to stop children that are involved in gun accidents due to a gun owner’s stupidity. Domestic violence. Armed robbery. The officer that is killed at a traffic stop. The citizen that is killed because the police had to make a snap judgement that turned out to be wrong. Other crimes in progress. It’s about the mass shootings, but it’s also about so much more. 
Gunshot wounds are now the number one cause of death in those under 18. We want to change that. 

As I said in another thread, I want gun safety rules for people with children/  I care about it all--- but ddid you reaalize that gun charges are hardly ever prosecuted??????/  Only mass gun charges, like importing a bunch of illegal guns.  But if a criminal has a gun- that is never prosecuted- always pled down.  Except sometimes, in some states, there is an extra charge if you kill someone with a gun.  Not sure why- it beats the burning death that one person recieved in Chicago recently.  Also beats beheadings and a lot of other ways to die.

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

From today's Christianity Today:

White Churches, It’s Time to Go Pro-Life on Guns

This is an excellent article, thanks for sharing it. Can’t wait to gift it to the next person I hear pointing their finger at Chicago as a reason to do nothing. 

52 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Do you realize that there is more at stake than trying to stop the mass shootings? Those often make the news. People also want to stop children that are involved in gun accidents due to a gun owner’s stupidity. Domestic violence. Armed robbery. The officer that is killed at a traffic stop. The citizen that is killed because the police had to make a snap judgement that turned out to be wrong. Other crimes in progress. It’s about the mass shootings, but it’s also about so much more. 
Gunshot wounds are now the number one cause of death in those under 18. We want to change that. 

And suicides. Simply reducing access to guns would decrease suicide rates. 

[KSera]

18 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

BTW, even misdemeanor domestic abuse gets you on the no gun law.

I can't tell if you're saying that's a good thing or a bad thing.

[KSera]

22 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

And suicides. Simply reducing access to guns would decrease suicide rates. 

Dramatically. This is well studied and one of the easiest ones to demonstrate that the argument that "they'll just find another way" isn't true, when you're talking about gun deaths. The vast majority of deadly suicides are committed by a firearm. The vast majority of non-gun suicide attempts are survived, and most of those who attempted do not go on to die by suicide in the future. The data is very clear that having access to a gun dramatically increases the chance that someone will die by suicide. When places make it harder to access a gun, suicide rates go down. People might stlll try, but most survive when they don't use a gun, and then they can get help and do not usually go on to die by suicide in the future.

eta: Said less clumsily by Every Town:

Quote

Most people who attempt suicide do not die—unless they use a gun. Across all suicide attempts without a gun, 4% result in death. But when a gun is involved, that figure skyrockets to 90%. That second chance matters: the vast majority of people who survive a suicide attempt do not go on to die from a later attempt. The research shows that the difference between living to see a better day or dying by suicide is often determined by the presence of a gun. Given the unique lethality of firearms as a means of suicide, addressing gun suicide is an essential element of any strategy to reduce gun violence in this country.

https://everytownresearch.org/issue/gun-suicide/

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by KSera

[ktgrok]

33 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Except sometimes, in some states, there is an extra charge if you kill someone with a gun.  Not sure why- it beats the burning death that one person recieved in Chicago recently.  Also beats beheadings and a lot of other ways to die.

I think we can assume constructive dialog about GUN violence is not the goal when, “it’s better than being beheaded” enters the discussion. 

[TravelingChris]

34 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

This is an excellent article, thanks for sharing it. Can’t wait to gift it to the next person I hear pointing their finger at Chicago as a reason to do nothing. 

And suicides. Simply reducing access to guns would decrease suicide rates. 

Who ever said that because Chicago has so many murders we shouldn't do anything?  We should.  They have an awful mayor. 

[TravelingChris]

28 minutes ago, KSera said:

I can't tell if you're saying that's a good thing or a bad thing.

A good thing.  Also, we should have be looking out for people killing pets and also starting fires.  Like Ramos, he didn't need psych help, cause there is none for psychopaths.  But he shouldn't have been able to buy guns/

[Grace Hopper]

2 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Who ever said that because Chicago has so many murders we shouldn't do anything?  We should.  They have an awful mayor. 

Did you read the article???

[KSera]

1 minute ago, TravelingChris said:

A good thing.  Also, we should have be looking out for people killing pets and also starting fires.  Like Ramos, he didn't need psych help, cause there is none for psychopaths.  But he shouldn't have been able to buy guns/

We need universal red flag laws across the country in order to prevent that from happening. Without those laws, there's not a way to prevent people with red flags from buying and owning guns. It sounds like we found something we can agree needs to happen.

[sassenach]

6 hours ago, ktgrok said:

This is what the Mayor said in the press conference after 14 people were shot, 3 people are dead. 

And finally, I am a gun owner. I’ve been an avid hunter and marksman all my life—and so I want to say this clearly, I fully support responsible gun ownership, but Congress needs to do their jobs and pass common sense regulations that will help stop this nonsense. That doesn’t mean taking guns away from responsible gun owners, but it does mean mandatory background checks and prohibiting high-capacity magazines that allow shooters to hurt dozens of people without having to so much as reload. In mass shootings between 2009 and 2020, high-capacity magazines led to 5x as many people shot per mass shooting. This stuff is just common sense. And it’s a simple way we can keep people safe.

I'm tired of standing in front of you talking about guns and bodies. Chattanooga will not tolerate this in our community. 

https://newschannel9.com/news/local/heavy-police-presence-in-downtown-chattanooga-sunday-morning-mass-shooting-crime-marys-bar-grill-mccallie-lyerly-gun-violence

This gives me a tiny bit of hope. I am a gun owner who is DONE. But I live in California, so there is really no one that I can petition at this point. I have to wait on the red states.

[TravelingChris]

1 minute ago, Grace Hopper said:

Did you read the article???

No..  I read that the part where that someone posted here where they said  people talk about Chicago and do nothing.  All the people I know who talk about Chicago want to do a lot.  Increase police, increase sentences,   stop the gang wars, and btw,  a lot of the gang war stuff leads back to cartels in Mexico.  Give giant penalties for straw buying of guns.  Put in school choice throughout the country.  Have different graduation requirements for people wanting different outcomes- like after9th or 10th grade, have kids go to specialized schools = pre tech, culinary, etc, etc, etc, etc,

[TravelingChris]

The problem with the magazines are a) there are millions of them out there and since they look like very easy things to make on a 3-d printer.

[Grace Hopper]

2 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

No..  I read that the part where that someone posted here where they said  people talk about Chicago and do nothing.  All the people I know who talk about Chicago want to do a lot.  Increase police, increase sentences,   stop the gang wars, and btw,  a lot of the gang war stuff leads back to cartels in Mexico.  Give giant penalties for straw buying of guns.  Put in school choice throughout the country.  Have different graduation requirements for people wanting different outcomes- like after9th or 10th grade, have kids go to specialized schools = pre tech, culinary, etc, etc, etc, etc,

Do you know anyone personally who lives, works, and/or does ministry work in Chicago?

Anyway, I don’t think you are correctly seeing the context in which we are discussing Chicago’s gun violence problem in this thread. 

[Grace Hopper]

1 minute ago, TravelingChris said:

The problem with the magazines are a) there are millions of them out there and since they look like very easy things to make on a 3-d printer.

Isn’t your husband a ministry professional? I’d think you’d recognize CT as a source. 

[TravelingChris]

2 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Do you know anyone personally who lives, works, and/or does ministry work in Chicago?

Anyway, I don’t think you are correctly seeing the context in which we are discussing Chicago’s gun violence problem in this thread. 

I know one person who lives in Chicago, at least.  I lived there from 81-87, a high crime period.