And another mass shooting - Chattanooga, TN

[TechWife]

24 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Yeah, but I'd bet dollars to donuts when white southerners are talking and thinking about self defense and defense of property the image in their head of the person they would be shooting is usually someone of color. They associate "gangs" and "criminals" with a particular color or colors. 

I don't disagree.

[AnotherNewName]

19 hours ago, KSera said:

If politicians refuse to pass common sense legislation to keep these kinds of weapons out of the hands of people who shouldn’t have them, then I’ll take whatever silliness is required to do so. 

But it isn't going to be passed.  Suggesting it is just performance art.

[KSera]

2 hours ago, TechWife said:

I agree that there is no chance of civilians being able to defend themselves from the US Military. Having always lived in the south, it is my experience that the prevailing reasons for owning a weapon are self defense, defense of property, hunting and defending from government overreach.  I don't hear anyone using race based reasons to own a gun, and I grew up in an area with an active KKK. So, while the Civil War most likely accelerated this belief, the reason was not tied to fear of retribution, it was the fact that the US Army was, from their viewpoint, operating outside the boundaries of the law by not acquiescing to the succession of the southern states. They were able to fight a war against the US government because they had weapons they could use in addition to the ones they seized from existing armories they were able to capture. I hear a lot of talk about how civil war could happen again and people need to be ready. Defending oneself from ones own government was, and remains, a primary concern of gun rights activists. Any increase in gun ownership & use due to issues surrounding fear of retaliation from former slaves or a loss of their way of life is incidental to that overriding principal of defending oneself/family/community from government overreach through the military, which originated with the founders, had the need "confirmed" by the Civil War, and persists today.

 

Do I recall you listen to the Holy Post sometimes? Coincidentally, I headed out to run errands shortly after my previous reply to you and I listened to their newest podcast in the car and this very subject came up. The initial reasons and meaning behind a well regulated militia and how that changed because of the Civil War. I won’t try and summarize, but if you don’t usually listen but are interested in that part I can track down a link that starts at the pertinent point of the podcast (I honestly find podcasts and videos to be frustratingly slow ways to get information, but I’ll do Podcasts in the car since I can’t read and drive 😂). 

[Lillyfee]

Do you have any option of direct democracy in the US like Switzerland does a lot where people can vote on one single issue? We have that in Germany too but not that often like Switzerland.

I feel with the gun laws that would actually come out to  stricter laws.

 

https://www.eda.admin.ch/aboutswitzerland/en/home/politik-geschichte/politisches-system/direkte-demokratie.html#:~:text=Direct democracy is one of,two instruments%3A initiatives and referendums.

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Lillyfee

[Pam in CT]

re issue referendums (referenda ?)

29 minutes ago, Lillyfee said:

Do you have any option of direct democracy in the US like Switzerland does a lot where people can vote on one single issue? We have that in Germany too but not that often like Switzerland.

I feel with the gun laws that would actually come out to  stricter laws.

 

https://www.eda.admin.ch/aboutswitzerland/en/home/politik-geschichte/politisches-system/direkte-demokratie.html#:~:text=Direct democracy is one of,two instruments%3A initiatives and referendums.

 

At the state level, we do.

(States vary considerably about how easy or hard it is to get an issue onto the ballot, and what sort of issues can get on, and how the referendum questions are phrased and who decides on the phrasing.)

I don't believe there is any mechanism for getting a federal question onto the ballots. Ballots are "built" at the state level, not the federal, so I don't think there would be a way to do for a federal question it even if Congress *wanted* to do it.  And on this issue Congress definitely does not want to do it -- if they could get a consensus to do it, they'd be able to get legislation passed.

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

Do I recall you listen to the Holy Post sometimes? Coincidentally, I headed out to run errands shortly after my previous reply to you and I listened to their newest podcast in the car and this very subject came up. The initial reasons and meaning behind a well regulated militia and how that changed because of the Civil War. I won’t try and summarize, but if you don’t usually listen but are interested in that part I can track down a link that starts at the pertinent point of the podcast (I honestly find podcasts and videos to be frustratingly slow ways to get information, but I’ll do Podcasts in the car since I can’t read and drive 😂). 

I do listen to it - was it a recent episode? I’m about two weeks behind. I can probably listen tomorrow. They always have insightful info and responses to so much. I put them on through y Apple TV and the description usually has the times of topic changes. 

[TechWife]

2 hours ago, AnotherNewName said:

But it isn't going to be passed.  Suggesting it is just performance art.

Then let them perform and go on the record with their resistance to actually doing anything to solve the problem. No votes can have an impact at the ballot box when they are leveraged appropriately by the public. We have to vote people in that will actually do something. 

 

 

[KSera]

48 minutes ago, TechWife said:

I do listen to it - was it a recent episode? I’m about two weeks behind. I can probably listen tomorrow. They always have insightful info and responses to so much. I put them on through y Apple TV and the description usually has the times of topic changes. 

It was this week’s episode. I’m usually many weeks behind as well, but have skipped a bunch and recently got caught up to real time. I skipped the last French Friday which was a gun debate with David French because the clip I caught of it told me enough to know it was going to be frustrating for me to listen to, and I’ve alreafy been in such anger mode these past two weeks and didn’t feel up for it. Maybe I will go back and listen when I’m ready. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by KSera
Typo

[TechWife]

3 minutes ago, KSera said:

It was this week’s episode. I’m usually many weeks behind as well, but have skipped a bunch and recently got caught up to real time. I skipped the last French Friday which was a gun debate with David French because the clip I caught of it told me enough to know it was going to be frustrating for me to listen to, and I’ve alreafy been in such anger mode these past two weeks and didn’t feel up for it. Maybe I will go back and listen when I’m ready. 

Thanks. I'll check it out tomorrow while I'm stuff around the house.

I think I can pretty much guess where David French lands on gun control. I'll see if I can give that a listen also to see if I'm right or if I learn anything new.

[Heartstrings]

2 hours ago, TechWife said:

Thanks. I'll check it out tomorrow while I'm stuff around the house.

I think I can pretty much guess where David French lands on gun control. I'll see if I can give that a listen also to see if I'm right or if I learn anything new.

 

2 hours ago, KSera said:

It was this week’s episode. I’m usually many weeks behind as well, but have skipped a bunch and recently got caught up to real time. I skipped the last French Friday which was a gun debate with David French because the clip I caught of it told me enough to know it was going to be frustrating for me to listen to, and I’ve alreafy been in such anger mode these past two weeks and didn’t feel up for it. Maybe I will go back and listen when I’m ready. 

I found the David French episode frustrating.  I usually like him even though I disagree with him often and I figured I knew where he stood on guns so I thought I was prepared.  He just came off as so arrogant and like he was talking down to Skye for disagreeing with him.  I was very turned off and I'm going to find it hard to listen to the next French Fry Day which is disappointing.  I was also a bit surprised to find that French's opinions were all constitutional and there wasn't much biblical reasoning.  Skye tried to come at from the biblical perspective a few times and kept getting shut down.  They butted heads a few times and it made me uncomfortable even though it was respectful.    French did make some interesting points that left me thinking, but it was still hard to listen to.  

The next regular episode after that one (#512)  with  Skye, Phil and a guest had a really good discussion about it though.  

Holy Post is one of my favorite podcasts. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Heartstrings

[AnotherNewName]

3 hours ago, TechWife said:

Then let them perform and go on the record with their resistance to actually doing anything to solve the problem. No votes can have an impact at the ballot box when they are leveraged appropriately by the public. We have to vote people in that will actually do something. 

 

 

Do we really want to go down the road of trying to use reconciliation to pass partisan taxes?  What's to prevent another certain party from passing a $1,000/download on social media apps who have policies lawmakers don't like?

It's not just silly and performative, it sets a bad precedent for the future.

[TechWife]

9 hours ago, AnotherNewName said:

Do we really want to go down the road of trying to use reconciliation to pass partisan taxes?  What's to prevent another certain party from passing a $1,000/download on social media apps who have policies lawmakers don't like?

It's not just silly and performative, it sets a bad precedent for the future.

How did taxes get into the conversation? My point is simply that, if there is legislation introduced, it should get assigned to a committee, then if the committee won’t release it for a vote, the committee members’ positions are on record. If it gets out of committee, it should be scheduled for a vote and then the votes are on record. It is that record that can be leveraged at the ballot box. Your Senator or representative didn’t vote the way you wanted them to? Let everyone you know about it and then vote accordingly. 

[Grace Hopper]

14 hours ago, KSera said:

It was this week’s episode. I’m usually many weeks behind as well, but have skipped a bunch and recently got caught up to real time. I skipped the last French Friday which was a gun debate with David French because the clip I caught of it told me enough to know it was going to be frustrating for me to listen to, and I’ve alreafy been in such anger mode these past two weeks and didn’t feel up for it. Maybe I will go back and listen when I’m ready. 

 

12 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

 

I found the David French episode frustrating.  I usually like him even though I disagree with him often and I figured I knew where he stood on guns so I thought I was prepared.  He just came off as so arrogant and like he was talking down to Skye for disagreeing with him.  I was very turned off and I'm going to find it hard to listen to the next French Fry Day which is disappointing.  I was also a bit surprised to find that French's opinions were all constitutional and there wasn't much biblical reasoning.  Skye tried to come at from the biblical perspective a few times and kept getting shut down.  They butted heads a few times and it made me uncomfortable even though it was respectful.    French did make some interesting points that left me thinking, but it was still hard to listen to.  

The next regular episode after that one (#512)  with  Skye, Phil and a guest had a really good discussion about it though.  

Holy Post is one of my favorite podcasts. 

The HP episode is June 8th’s. 
 

I deliberately skipped that French Friday, knowing that he is a former JAG and constitution literalist. I respect him, though, and will listen to this podcast at some point later on because I believe it will help me have insight to the mindset of the folks I’m most likely to engage with over this issue IRL. 
 

The HP podcast news segment features Mike Erre, a New Testament scholar who really takes French’s stance to task. It’s quite good. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Grace Hopper