SAT will be delivered digitally internationally beginning in 2023 and in the U.S. in 2024. The PSAT/NMSQT and PSAT 8/9 will be delivered digitally in 2023 with the PSAT 10 following in 2024.

[Arcadia]

https://newsroom.collegeboard.org/digital-sat-brings-student-friendly-changes-test-experience
“Among the changes: the digital SAT will be shorter—about two hours instead of three for the current SAT, with more time per question. The digital test will feature shorter reading passages with one question tied to each, and passages will reflect a wider range of topics that represent the works students read in college. Calculators will be allowed on the entire Math section. Students and educators will get scores back in days, instead of weeks. And, to reflect the range of paths that students take after high school, digital SAT Suite score reports will also connect students to information and resources about local two-year college, workforce training programs, and career options.

With the transition to digital tests, College Board is working to address inequities in access to technology. Students will be able to use their own device (laptop or tablet) or a school issued device. If students don’t have a device to use, College Board will provide one for use on test day. If a student loses connectivity or power, the digital SAT has been designed to ensure they won’t lose their work or time while they reconnect. 

The changes will also make the SAT more secure. With the current paper and pencil SAT, if one test form is compromised it can mean canceling administrations or canceling scores for a whole group of students. Going digital allows every student to receive a unique test form, so it will be practically impossible to share answers.

The SAT will be delivered digitally internationally beginning in 2023 and in the U.S. in 2024. The PSAT/NMSQT and PSAT 8/9 will be delivered digitally in 2023 with the PSAT 10 following in 2024. More information about the changes can be found at SAT.org/digital.”

[freesia]

Two thoughts:

1) ugh. My kids have always done better on paper tests. It’s hard to pace yourself with an online test. I’m so frustrated I’ll have to learn new prep for my last child. What I’ve been doing has worked really well!

2) Am I the only one worried that the talk about school day testing will lead to homeschoolers having to negotiate with schools about access?

Edited January 25, 2022 by freesia

[Lawyer&Mom]

I wonder if it will be adaptive.  Skipping questions and coming back them was a big part of my test strategy. 

[Sneezyone]

19 minutes ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

I wonder if it will be adaptive.  Skipping questions and coming back them was a big part of my test strategy. 

It will be adaptive.

[Roadrunner]

19 minutes ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

I wonder if it will be adaptive.  Skipping questions and coming back them was a big part of my test strategy. 

Yes, it’s adaptive. I know this is a feature people love, but I hate adaptive tests. 
here is a good take on this:

https://www.compassprep.com/digital_sat/

 

if they allow college test centers to proctor, that’s the only positive in my book. And we don’t even know if they will. 

 

[Sneezyone]

25 minutes ago, freesia said:

Two thoughts:

1) ugh. My kids have always done better on paper tests. It’s hard to pace yourself with an online test. I’m so frustrated I’ll have to learn new prep for my last child. What I’ve been doing has worked really well!

2) Am I the only one worried that the talk about school day testing will lead to homeschoolers having to negotiate with schools about access?

My hope is that it will be largely untimed but I'm also perfectly fine with my kiddos applying test optional. Their grades are a much better indication of what they can do over the long-term than a single, gamed, prepped-for test. I am a BIG fan of adaptive testing as it  more accurately reflects student knowledge/skills. I foresee a future where students are assessed based on their entire body of knowledge, skills, responsibilities/management tasks, authentic volunteerism (vs. paid trips) than a single test.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Roadrunner]

22 minutes ago, freesia said:

Two thoughts:

1) ugh. My kids have always done better on paper tests. It’s hard to pace yourself with an online test. I’m so frustrated I’ll have to learn new prep for my last child. What I’ve been doing has worked really well!

2) Am I the only one worried that the talk about school day testing will lead to homeschoolers having to negotiate with schools about access?

On one of my DS’s AP tests last year, all hard questions were grouped together in the beginning of the test. He looked at time and realized he answered 1/4 of the questions and half the time was gone. He said he was shaking and on the verge of crying. Then test got easy out of nowhere and he finished the entire thing with 5 minute to spare and got a 5 on the exam. He was so scared from that experience than his subsequent test he went full speed rushing on answers thinking all those questions are easy so there must be a ton of hard ones toward the end. He finished MCQ section 30 minutes early and had no opportunity to look over anything. He made a 5, but this inability to pace yourself is really why we hate digital tests. 

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

On one of my DS’s AP tests last year, all hard questions were grouped together in the beginning of the test. He looked at time and realized he answered 1/4 of the questions and half the time was gone. He said he was shaking and on the verge of crying. Then test got easy out of nowhere and he finished the entire thing with 5 minute to spare and got a 5 on the exam. He was so scared from that experience than his subsequent test he went full speed rushing on answers thinking all those questions are easy so there must be a ton of hard ones toward the end. He finished MCQ section 30 minutes early and had no opportunity to look over anything. He made a 5, but this inability to pace yourself is really why we hate digital tests. 

This is a perfect example of why these tests should be (functionally) time-unlimited, adaptive, optional and why 'gaming' will never truly go away. Some kids are better able to recover from that than others. It doesn't mean their capacity to learn or their professional work products would be less.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Roadrunner]

5 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

This is a perfect example of why these tests should be (functionally) time-unlimited, adaptive, optional and why 'gaming' will never truly go away. Some kids are better able to recover from that than others. It doesn't mean their capacity to learn or their professional work products would be less.

No, this is a perfect example of why everybody should take an exact same paper test.

 

I don’t trust adaptive tests. 

[freesia]

9 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

My hope is that it will be largely untimed but I'm also perfectly fine with my kiddos applying test optional. Their grades are a much better indication of what they can do over the long-term than a single, gamed, prepped-for test. I am a BIG fan of adaptive testing as it  more accurately reflects student knowledge/skills. I foresee a future where students are assessed based on their entire body of knowledge, skills, responsibilities/management tasks, authentic volunteerism (vs. paid trips) than a single test.

My kids don't read test questions as carefully online. 

Yes, grades are a better indication overall, but the SAT scores have really validated my kid's grades.  They got some really, really good scholarships that their SAT's helped qualify them for.  We really need the scholarship money for our kids to have options to study away from home.  Serious doors were opened for them. 

I will adapt.  I will also have the option to go to work to help put dd13 through college when the time comes.  The SAT changed once when my oldest was of the SAT age.  I wish it would stop changing all the time.  Maybe it's time to look at the ACT.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Roadrunner said:

No, this is a perfect example of why everybody should take an exact same paper test.

 

I don’t trust adaptive tests. 

Good luck with that. This is a minority view scientifically and anecdotally.

[Roadrunner]

I am just glad my kids will be done before this crap kicks in. 

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, freesia said:

My kids don't read test questions as carefully online. 

Yes, grades are a better indication overall, but the SAT scores have really validated my kid's grades.  They got some really, really good scholarships that their SAT's helped qualify them for.  We really need the scholarship money for our kids to have options to study away from home.  Serious doors were opened for them. 

I will adapt.  I will also have the option to go to work to help put dd13 through college when the time comes.  The SAT changed once when my oldest was of the SAT age.  I wish it would stop changing all the time.  Maybe it's time to look at the ACT.

Neither does one of mine, which is why I view optional as a very important part of the puzzle. Online reading (and the lack of meaning derived from it) is COMPLETELY glossed over, a condition of the digital age, I think. We're basically looking only at test optional schools, even for those of our children who test very well, because it aligns better with our view of what admissions should be. Fortunately, that includes/will include many/most of the top schools in the country.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Sneezyone

[freesia]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

Neither does one of mine, which is why I view optional as a very important part of the puzzle. Online reading (and the lack of meaning derived from it) is COMPLETELY glossed over, a condition of the digital age, I think. We're basically looking only at test optional schools, even for those of our children who test very well because it aligns better with our view of what admissions should be.

But can you afford them without the scholarship money that the tests provide? That's what I'm talking about.  Many schools are test optional rn but say that the SAT scores help with awarding scholarship money.  That's what has happened here, and that's what I'm concerned about.  My kids are bright and would really do well at any school in the country, but we can't afford to send them unless the college is willing to give them money.  Our EFC is well over our actual ability to pay due to some factors we can't easily control (house in HCOL area that is a job benefit but counts as salary for example) but can't convert to cash.

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, freesia said:

But can you afford them without the scholarship money that the tests provide? That's what I'm talking about.  Many schools are test optional rn but say that the SAT scores help with awarding scholarship money.  That's what has happened here, and that's what I'm concerned about.  My kids are bright and would really do well at any school in the country, but we can't afford to send them unless the college is willing to give them money.  Our EFC is well over our actual ability to pay due to some factors we can't easily control (house in HCOL area that is a job benefit but counts as salary for example) but can't convert to cash.

We can, but even so, I don't think scholarships will continue to be based on test scores, nor should they be. I attended schools with truly gifted kids for years and they/we never valued grades and test scores so much as our peculiar and particular interests/talents. I value student/child ingenuity and drive and quick uptake over all, and I have hope that the systems that arise from the new SCOTUS's decimation of race-conscious admissions will result in more students who show that kind of promise at 'elite' institutions. At most schools, this is a total non-issue anyway. My preference on hiring committees was always to subject new hires to an easy skills-based assessment b/c it never failed to separate the wheat from the chaff. Neither grades nor test scores could tell me if someone could use/create a basic Excel spreadsheet.

[chiguirre]

Dd will be happy to hear this. She may or may not need to take the SAT again depending on how and where she applies to finish her BS, but it will be so much easier for her to take an online adaptive test than it would be to show up for a paper test on a Saturday. 

[cintinative]

2 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

Dd will be happy to hear this. She may or may not need to take the SAT again depending on how and where she applies to finish her BS, but it will be so much easier for her to take an online adaptive test than it would be to show up for a paper test on a Saturday. 

You still have to take it at a test center though. Are we saying that we can get more flexible times for testing now because it is electronic?  like with CLEP? It can't be taken at home.

[chiguirre]

4 minutes ago, cintinative said:

You still have to take it at a test center though. Are we saying that we can get more flexible times for testing now because it is electronic?  like with CLEP? It can't be taken at home.

If you have to take it at a test center, it will have to be by appointment and more like the CLEP just to be logistically feasible. 

 

ETA: Whoops, no, apparently they have a bunch of kids in a room with their own or borrowed devices. That's very strange. I wonder if it will switch to something more like the CLEP so that you don't have to have a gazillion device loaners that only get used on test days every two months. But, nobody ever said the College Board was sensible.

Edited January 25, 2022 by chiguirre

[Arcadia]

11 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

. ETA: Whoops, no, apparently they have a bunch of kids in a room with their own or borrowed devices. That's very strange. I wonder if it will switch to something more like the CLEP so that you don't have to have a gazillion device loaners that only get used on test days every two months. But, nobody ever said the College Board was sensible.

That’s how it has been for the annual California state testing since my DS17 was in 4th grade in 2014.

[freesia]

33 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

We can, but even so, I don't think scholarships will continue to be based on test scores, nor should they be. I attended schools with truly gifted kids for years and they/we never valued grades and test scores so much as our peculiar and particular interests/talents. I value student/child ingenuity and drive and quick uptake over all, and I have hope that the systems that arise from the new SCOTUS's decimation of race-conscious admissions will result in more students who show that kind of promise at 'elite' institutions. At most schools, this is a total non-issue anyway. My preference on hiring committees was always to subject new hires to an easy skills-based assessment b/c it never failed to separate the wheat from the chaff. Neither grades nor test scores could tell me if someone could use/create a basic Excel spreadsheet.

But the fact you can afford it allows you to be more philosophical about this. The reality is that for most kids from unknown high schools and homeschoolers the scores provide another snapshot of the student—it’s a quick way to signal my kid’s abilities. The way ingenuity and drive is often signaled is with extra-curriculars. Those will be dependent on the money we as homeschoolers have to throw at them. Our state does not let us participate in any school activity. 
 

My concern is not signaling my kids can handle an elite education—I know they could—I had one. My concern is signaling schools that they got a top notch high school education so you want them at your school so much you are willing to give them extra money. I don’t know any other way of signaling that other than test scores that doesn’t involve a lot of money.  

[Lawyer&Mom]

I hate adaptive testing with a passion.  But I’m also a very fast test taker and I appreciate the extra time to review my work.  Alas, adaptive testing is clearly taking over. 

[Lucy the Valiant]

I have tutored kids in 2 local school districts for a few years, and when they are working on SAT prep, they take practice tests online OR on paper. Most of my students (and ESPECIALLY my "average" students) lose almost 100 points on average when they take it digitally (on Khan or on CB website) vs taking it on paper. 

Argh. 

(A similar effect is in play with their digital textbooks; when I bring my ancient regular-old-ps-algebra-texts, the kids often improve *just by using a book vs a computer.* I know that's not universal, but it's VERY common among my tutoring kids. More than one have wished out loud that their schools would "be willing to pay for books like this one" vs. their online textbook. I never have the heart to tell them that these books are the ones their schools threw away for the far-more-expensive digital ones.)

 

[Sneezyone]

4 hours ago, freesia said:

But the fact you can afford it allows you to be more philosophical about this. The reality is that for most kids from unknown high schools and homeschoolers the scores provide another snapshot of the student—it’s a quick way to signal my kid’s abilities. The way ingenuity and drive is often signaled is with extra-curriculars. Those will be dependent on the money we as homeschoolers have to throw at them. Our state does not let us participate in any school activity. 
 

My concern is not signaling my kids can handle an elite education—I know they could—I had one. My concern is signaling schools that they got a top notch high school education so you want them at your school so much you are willing to give them extra money. I don’t know any other way of signaling that other than test scores that doesn’t involve a lot of money.  

Quite the contrary, extracurriculars needn’t be paid or unpaid. This allows colleges to give sibling childcare, paid employment, and all things adulting-light (and recommendations from individuals who have knowledge of the same) greater weight. People can STILL send test scores as validation. That’s not prohibited.
 

I *was* that kid for whom the only thing that mattered was my test scores. Back in the dinosaur ages, I got 1250 cold, no prep, no books, no Latin/Greek, some 5s on APs, tons of parenting and work, one shot, no scholarships b/c I had zero guidance and it’s what I could afford. I still headed to a top 100 school. Bright kids will have options. I think so much of this is overblown. Kids with lots of help will always be fine. It’s kids with minimal help/prep who will benefit.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

17 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

I have tutored kids in 2 local school districts for a few years, and when they are working on SAT prep, they take practice tests online OR on paper. Most of my students (and ESPECIALLY my "average" students) lose almost 100 points on average when they take it digitally (on Khan or on CB website) vs taking it on paper. 

Argh. 

(A similar effect is in play with their digital textbooks; when I bring my ancient regular-old-ps-algebra-texts, the kids often improve *just by using a book vs a computer.* I know that's not universal, but it's VERY common among my tutoring kids. More than one have wished out loud that their schools would "be willing to pay for books like this one" vs. their online textbook. I never have the heart to tell them that these books are the ones their schools threw away for the far-more-expensive digital ones.)

 

Testing isn’t showing their potential or skill or drive. It’s masking it. They’re learning the skill of test prep. That’s all.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Sneezyone

[ShepCarlin]

Ehhhh. I don't know what to think. 

My youngest is literally tough on paper...he almost bores holes through scantron sheets. Not only does he almost damage the paper, it makes it hard to erase and re-bubble. So going digital in that aspect could be good.

Two hours instead of three sounds like a good thing. BUT. Doesn't that leave you with a smaller margin of error? Are the tests shorter in terms of the number of questions or are the tests still however many questions per section? I see that the reading passages are shorter with less questions but will math have more questions since you can use a calculator on all of it? 

Personally, I would absolutely hate taking a test on a computer. I don't read books on an e-reader because I do not retain the info at all if it is on a screen. But this generation is different. My oldest prefers reading his textbooks on his computer. I made him get hard copies for his DE classes last semester and he returned them unopened. 

I'll be interested to see if the ACT ends up going digital also. 

 

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, ShepCarlin said:

Ehhhh. I don't know what to think. 

My youngest is literally tough on paper...he almost bores holes through scantron sheets. Not only does he almost damage the paper, it makes it hard to erase and re-bubble. So going digital in that aspect could be good.

Two hours instead of three sounds like a good thing. BUT. Doesn't that leave you with a smaller margin of error? Are the tests shorter in terms of the number of questions or are the tests still however many questions per section? I see that the reading passages are shorter with less questions but will math have more questions since you can use a calculator on all of it? 

Personally, I would absolutely hate taking a test on a computer. I don't read books on an e-reader because I do not retain the info at all if it is on a screen. But this generation is different. My oldest prefers reading his textbooks on his computer. I made him get hard copies for his DE classes last semester and he returned them unopened. 

I'll be interested to see if the ACT ends up going digital also. 

 

Adaptive testing means if you get a question right, it gives you a harder question. If you get a question wrong, it gives you an easier question, until it finds the sweet spot where you proceed until you get enough wrong answers that a determination about your range can be made. Ergo, you can have a better assessment of skills with less time. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Sneezyone

[ShepCarlin]

@Sneezyone oh thank you! I was wondering what adaptive testing meant. Interesting. Wonder what my 14 yo will think of this. He just took a practice SAT last week to see what it is all about. Glad they will keep coordinating with Khan for practice.

[BusyMom5]

Not a fan.  My oldest is currently in college- shes been taking online tests for college classes for the last 2 years and the online tests are so much harder!  Its not the test, its the way they are administered.  She always does better on paper.  Being able to go back and change an answer, glance over all the test sections, skim a section and decide to focus or skip forward.  

In her college Calc class they had tests that told you immediately if your answer was right or wrong.  It gave my kid test anxiety!  Many kids complained that the mental hit you take after one wrong answer would cascade through the whole test.  

I'm also not a fan of most online textbooks.  If possible,  I buy my kid an older version real text, along with the required online code.  We ended up getting an iPad bc it was easier for her to use with online textbooks- its very hard to not be able to flip back and forth like you can in a textbook.  I know its easier for teachers, and many classes use the textbook software to submit assignments and quizzes- and im sure with hundreds of students it easier.  

[Arcadia]

19 minutes ago, ShepCarlin said:

 

I'll be interested to see if the ACT ends up going digital also. 

 

ACT already had a digital test since 2015. Would be easy for them to go all digital.

https://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/pdfs/FAQ-International-CBT-Students.pdf

“Q1: Is there an option to take the paper version of the ACT?
A: No. The computer-based ACT test will be the only option for students outside the US—
including Canada—who test on an international ACT test day.

Q4: Will the computer-based test user internationally be comparable to the paper forms used in the US? How will universities compare them?
A: The only difference between the computer-based ACT and the paper version will be the administration format. Scores will mean the same thing and will continue to use the familiar 1– 36 scale. University-reportable scores will be provided to post-secondary institutions and admissions counselors in the same manner that they are today.
The ACT test has been administered via computer in the US since 2015. To gather information about the differences between computer-based and paper testing and to learn about potential administration issues, ACT conducted comparability studies in 2014 and 2015 in operational testing environments where participating students received university-reportable scores.
Equating methodology was used for all four multiple-choice tests to adjust for any differences in scores across test formats so the studies were comparable to those from examinees taking the ACT on paper.
 

Q5: Will the results of the computer-based test have the same value to universities? How will they compare results with paper testing?
A: Scores on the computer-based version of the ACT will mean the same as those on the paper version, and universities will treat them the same. ACT has already shown the comparability of scores from tests taken via computer and paper testing to our university partners, beginning in 2015. Test scores are on the familiar 1–36 scale that universities use today when considering candidates for admission.

Q6: How many tests will there be in the computer-based ACT, and how many questions are in each test?
A: This will be exactly the same as the paper version. There are four subject matter tests: English (75 questions), mathematics (60 questions), reading (40 questions), and science (40 questions) and an optional writing test (1 writing prompt).”

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

Not a fan.  My oldest is currently in college- shes been taking online tests for college classes for the last 2 years and the online tests are so much harder!  Its not the test, its the way they are administered.  She always does better on paper.  Being able to go back and change an answer, glance over all the test sections, skim a section and decide to focus or skip forward.  

In her college Calc class they had tests that told you immediately if your answer was right or wrong.  It gave my kid test anxiety!  Many kids complained that the mental hit you take after one wrong answer would cascade through the whole test.  

I'm also not a fan of most online textbooks.  If possible,  I buy my kid an older version real text, along with the required online code.  We ended up getting an iPad bc it was easier for her to use with online textbooks- its very hard to not be able to flip back and forth like you can in a textbook.  I know its easier for teachers, and many classes use the textbook software to submit assignments and quizzes- and im sure with hundreds of students it easier.  

I appreciate that these are issues but they’re procedural/transitional ones, not format ones. There’s nothing stopping a kid from working their problems on paper before inputting them. And, again, the tests will be increasingly optional.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Sneezyone

[freesia]

20 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Testing isn’t showing their potential or skill or drive. It’s masking it. They’re learning the skill of test prep. That’s all.

Except my children scored high before any prep. 

I am actually not disagreeing with you about the value if the tests. I agree with you absolutely. What I am saying is that, for my family, the tests have provided a way for my kids to attend private colleges and not live at home. I  am not confident that would have happened otherwise. It was one of our tools. 
 

Hopefully it will still happen for my youngest.

[freesia]

21 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Adaptive testing means if you get a question right, it gives you a harder question. If you get a question wrong, it gives you an easier question, until it finds the sweet spot where you proceed until you get enough wrong answers that a determination about your range can be made. Ergo, you can have a better assessment of skills with less time. 

But what if you make a stupid mistake bc of nerves?  You can’t go back. This happened to my dh’s roommate on the GRE which piloted online tests in the 90’s. 

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, freesia said:

But what if you make a stupid mistake bc of nerves?  You can’t go back. This happened to my dh’s roommate on the GRE which piloted online tests in the 90’s. 

You can’t go back but the tests adapt so if you get too many questions right in a row, it will bump you up to harder questions again. It’s not the 90s. I consistently used adaptive testing when we homeschooled, which allowed me to find my kiddo’s actual ceiling. It also allowed me to place him in honors classes in 8th. These methodologies/tools are widely respected. Our district started using them this year too.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Sneezyone

[BusyMom5]

5 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I appreciate that these are issues but they’re procedural/transitional ones, not format ones. There’s nothing stopping a kid from working their problems on paper before inputting them. And, again, the tests will be increasingly optional.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with these, but just a few issues specific to these tests include scrolling too fast and missing a question, clicking down a fraction too far and its the wrong answer, glitches- this happens more often that you'd think!  If its a shorter test that scrolls, you can go back up snd down, but some are the one question per page type and you cannot go back.  Her College Algebra teacher had them turn in a work page with their online test and he would find correct answers typed in incorrectly, numbers inverted (I do this all the time).  Calc didn't care- it was all right or all wrong- the teacher doesn't grade or even look at the tests- they get a print out of how many kids missed which problems.  

[Sneezyone]

34 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

I'm not sure how familiar you are with these, but just a few issues specific to these tests include scrolling too fast and missing a question, clicking down a fraction too far and its the wrong answer, glitches- this happens more often that you'd think!  If its a shorter test that scrolls, you can go back up snd down, but some are the one question per page type and you cannot go back.  Her College Algebra teacher had them turn in a work page with their online test and he would find correct answers typed in incorrectly, numbers inverted (I do this all the time).  Calc didn't care- it was all right or all wrong- the teacher doesn't grade or even look at the tests- they get a print out of how many kids missed which problems.  

I am WELL aware of these issues and indicated, above, that one of my children is a poor candidate b/c of reading online/scrolling too fast. My DD has been taking tests online all year. This is an issue. These, too, are skills that can be learned/gamed tho. Again, I’m a fan of test optional. There are solutions to every testing problem that have nothing to do with content knowledge/aptitude. I don’t think there’s a good/effective substitute for four years of sustained, superior, performance.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

29 minutes ago, freesia said:

Except my children scored high before any prep. 

I am actually not disagreeing with you about the value if the tests. I agree with you absolutely. What I am saying is that, for my family, the tests have provided a way for my kids to attend private colleges and not live at home. I  am not confident that would have happened otherwise. It was one of our tools. 

Congrats, that's awesome! So does one of mine. I fully expect my younger to eclipse my older's SAT score on the first (cold) attempt in June. He's NOT smarter. He's more conventionally 'talented' with words and memory. Still, I worry over his limited people skills in a way that I do not with the other. Strange, right? DS will be able to go wherever he wants to based on his academic resume and will go nowhere that's good for him without guidance and prodding. Having attended an expensive, private college, I'm saying that it's HIGHLY overrated and inappropriate for all kids, even all highly-qualified kids. Just like with homeschooling overall, we have to place the kids in front of us.

[EKS]

I haven't looked into this, but if they make it adaptive the way that the GRE is adaptive, then each section of the test is given in two parts.  The first part is given to everyone and then there are hard and easy versions of the second part.  You get a certain amount of time to do each part.  This allows you to go back over and check your answers, which is a huge part of my test taking strategy.

When I prepared for the GRE four years ago, I started with the paper materials.  I reliably got a certain range of scores using those.  Then I switched to the computer materials.  My scores on the first few practice tests were MUCH lower.  Then something must of flipped in my brain because all of the sudden, the computer scores were the same as the paper ones were.  

It would also be nice if they could give the test a much higher ceiling.  With an adaptive test, this should certainly be possible.

[freesia]

8 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Congrats, that's awesome! So does one of mine. I fully expect my younger to eclipse my older's SAT score on the first (cold) attempt in June. He's NOT smarter. He's more conventionally 'talented' with words and memory. Still, I worry over his limited people skills in a way that I do not with the other. Strange, right? DS will be able to go wherever he wants to based on his academic resume and will go nowhere that's good for him without guidance and prodding. Having attended an expensive, private college, I'm saying that it's HIGHLY overrated and inappropriate for all kids, even all highly-qualified kids. Just like with homeschooling overall, we have to place the kids in front of us.

I agree with you. My kids actually end up going to second tier schools who give them a lot of money. Going away was not over rated for them. It was exactly what needed to happen for them. It would not have happened without scholarships which they got bc of their SAT scores. Maybe you would think they shouldn’t have gotten the scholarships based on SATs and grades. Ok. But they are qualified for the scholarships they received. And SATs, no matter how flawed, are one way we have been able to show this qualification. I think that the other ways are going to end up even more dependent on money. I’m in an area where many people have a ton of money to throw at ECs and experiences. Those scores, for better or worse, have worked for our family. It is just is the reality for us no matter what I think philosophically. 

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, freesia said:

I agree with you. My kids actually end up going to second tier schools who give them a lot of money. Going away was not over rated for them. It was exactly what needed to happen for them. It would not have happened without scholarships which they got bc of their SAT scores. Maybe you would think they shouldn’t have gotten the scholarships based on SATs and grades. Ok. But they are qualified for the scholarships they received. And SATs, no matter how flawed, are one way we have been able to show this qualification. I think that the other ways are going to end up even more dependent on money. I’m in an area where many people have a ton of money to throw at ECs and experiences. Those scores, for better or worse, have worked for our family. It is just is the reality for us no matter what I think philosophically. 

Umm, pretty sure I said I’m supportive of that approach as an option. I don’t begrudge your kids anything. I think if tests help their academic/personal resume, add them, but they are just one measure and a largely unnecessary/inaccurate measure of merit for most kids. I don’t disagree with the statements re: the many ways people of means pay for experiences. DD tried to get us to pay for a weeklong ‘volunteer’ experience in the Caribbean (no!). I think schools can differentiate that from holding down a job for 3-4 years and caring for siblings on their own. I think they find plenty of merit in those everyday experiences.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[freesia]

7 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Umm, pretty sure I said I’m supportive of that optional. I don’t begrudge your kids anything. I think if they help, add them, but they are one measure and largely unnecessary/inaccurate measure of merit.

Right. All I was saying is that I am sad that a tool that has worked for us to afford college may or may not work for my last—that I’ll have to learn new methods. 
 

I am curious why you think they are unnecessary as homeschoolers to show merit. Most score optional schools we’ve looked at require or highly recommend scores from homeschoolers and for scholarship consideration. Is this different from your experience?  Have your children gotten good scholarships without scores?

PS- I am not reading you as begrudging or anything. I’m reading a conversational tone and intend one.  😃

Edited January 26, 2022 by freesia

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, freesia said:

Right. All I was saying is that I am sad that a tool that has worked for us to afford college may or may not work for my last—that I’ll have to learn new methods. 
 

I am curious why you think they are unnecessary as homeschoolers to show merit. Most score optional schools we’ve looked at require or highly recommend scores from homeschoolers and for scholarship consideration. Is this different from your experience?  Have your children gotten good scholarships without scores?

PS- I am not reading you as begrudging or anything. I’m reading a conversational tone and intend one.  😃

I haven’t sent one yet. My first is applying in the fall but, again, we’re not targeting big name schools for kid 1 and kid 2 is a cheapskate who wants 100% merit/to pay his own way and will happily under-match to get it. My friend’s son applied last fall but both our kids are coming from public/private school. I think awesome essays and heartfelt recommendations from people who truly know kids is as/more important than SAT scores, especially when strategic AP scores or DE grades in areas of interest can accomplish the same task. I just don’t think it’s the end-all, be-all.

[freesia]

5 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I haven’t sent one yet. My first is applying in the fall but, again, we’re not targeting big name schools for kid 1 and kid 2 is a cheapskate who wants 100% merit/to pay his own way and will happily under-match to get it. My friend’s son applied last fall but both our kids are coming from public/private school. I think awesome essays and heartfelt recommendations from people who truly know kids is as/more important than SAT scores, especially when strategic AP scores or DE grades in areas of interest can accomplish the same task. I just don’t think it’s the end-all, be-all.

I don’t either. But for homeschoolers, AP test sites aren’t as accessible as SAT sites. DE classes cost money for many of us. Some schools may not count home grades for scholarships without outside verification. Coming from a brick and mortar school is a different ball of wax and it is easier to show merit in ways more authentic than SAT scores. The tests are more important for homeschoolers ( for scholarships and sometimes entrance. )As I said above, many test optional schools still require scores from homeschoolers even for admittance. 

[Sneezyone]

6 minutes ago, freesia said:

I don’t either. But for homeschoolers, AP test sites aren’t as accessible as SAT sites. DE classes cost money for many of us. Some schools may not count home grades for scholarships without outside verification. Coming from a brick and mortar school is a different ball of wax and it is easier to show merit in ways more authentic than SAT scores. The tests are more important for homeschoolers ( for scholarships and sometimes entrance. )As I said above, many test optional schools still require scores from homeschoolers even for admittance. 

A single DE class in our area is, essentially, the price of two AP/SAT tests, one with the answer service and the other with the extra score reports, plus the DE credits transfer. I’m not seeing a marked difference there. 🤷🏽‍♀️ I get that the validation is expected. I just think there’s more than one way to do that.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[mlktwins]

I am glad I will be done dealing with College Board soon!!!

[freesia]

18 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

A single DE class in our area is, essentially, the price of two AP/SAT tests, one with the answer service and the other with the extra score reports, plus the DE credits transfer. I’m not seeing a marked difference there. 🤷🏽‍♀️ I get that the validation is expected. I just think there’s more than one way to do that.

A DE class in my area is $200 a credit—so $600 per class or the price of 6 AP tests. They are also only available to seniors. There are online DE classes that are available to juniors as well for about the same amount of money. So, for homeschoolers who are in districts that don’t let them take AP tests, validation is a lot more expensive. 

[Sneezyone]

Yikes, yeah, it makes sense to pay for a book or online session or do the free Khan online prep to learn how to game the new test in that case.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Roadrunner]

3 minutes ago, freesia said:

A DE class in my area is $200 a credit—so $600 per class or the price of 6 AP tests. They are also only available to seniors. There are online DE classes that are available to juniors as well for about the same amount of money. So, for homeschoolers who are in districts that don’t let them take AP tests, validation is a lot more expensive. 

And for us DE just in gas is $70 a week, so an AP test is 1.5 weeks of DE in just gas money. 

[freesia]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Yikes, yeah, it makes sense to pay for a book or online session or do the free online prep to learn how to game the new test in that case.

And that’s why I’m feeling frustrated. I had a method that worked and now I am back to the drawing board. It’s ok.  It’s just no rest for me on this score. Some of my energy will need to go in this direction and more time for dd bc we won’t necessarily know how it will go. (I could give the others sample paper test .)I’d rather spend that energy on other things. 

[freesia]

5 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

And for us DE just in gas is $70 a week, so an AP test is 1.5 weeks of DE in just gas money. 

Yikes!

[UmmIbrahim]

44 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

A single DE class in our area is, essentially, the price of two AP/SAT tests, one with the answer service and the other with the extra score reports, plus the DE credits transfer. I’m not seeing a marked difference there. 🤷🏽‍♀️ I get that the validation is expected. I just think there’s more than one way to do that.

Wow, I'm living in the wrong part of the country for DE. If my kid takes one, 3 credit class I have to pay about $750! So taking more than a 3 credit class (pretty much anything STEM ends up being at least 4 credits) costs us a lot for just one semester. *sigh*

I read about people who get free DE in their area as homeschoolers and just drool.